amuck-landowner

A note about "Verified Providers"

MannDude

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
It should be noted that the vpsBoard Verified Provider group is not an endorsement of hosts we think you should sign up with, rather it's a list of providers who have at-least met the minimum requirements to be listed as a Verified Provider. Requirements can be seen  here: 

We still encourage everyone who is browsing offers to do their part and research the company before signing up and spending your money with them. We're open to suggestions on how to improve this group, as we want to protect our visitor base from having to deal with headaches but at the same time want to be fair to providers who apply. There are a number of 'Verified Providers' who you'll find with a poor reputation, but they still remain labeled as a Verified Provider because, as mentioned above, they met the requirements to be listed as such. You should still do research before signing up with any of them.

Suggestions for improvements are of course always welcome.

In the past I wanted to abolish the group and have all offers listed in the same category, and leave the research to the customer as to who to go with and who not to. Nowadays, I feel it's a unique feature however I'm starting to lean towards the thought that it needs to be now improved, instead of abolished.
 
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Aldryic C'boas

Aldryic C'boas

The Pony
Potential improvement - convert the group title to a URL that redirects to a search for the provider's name in threads under the Review section.  Give users a one-click access to better information on the company.

Alternative - a 'Warnings' section, for situations where it's not really a review of a company (such as Mun's account with one particular... "host"... getting deleted with no explanation), and include posts in this section with the aforementioned search.

EDIT:  To clarify, that's Mun's account getting deleted, not any threads here.  Apologies for how vague that was.
 
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mojeda

mojeda

New Member
The definition of "Verified Provider" needs to be pinned in that forum. While I don't see it as an endorsement I can see how some might think "Well because they are a Verified Provider they must be legit."
 
People who post reviews as well as providers should get in the habit of tagging their thread with their company name that way reviews may show up at the bottom of the offer thread.
 
Perhaps new requirement for posting reviews or offers? Tagging the company the review or offer is for.
 
Edit
 

Aldryic C said:
Potential improvement - convert the group title to a URL that redirects to a search for the provider's name in threads under the Review section.  Give users a one-click access to better information on the company.
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Verified Provider 

Code: 
<span style="color: orange">Verified Provider</span> <a href="THREAD"><img src="/public/style_images/master/help.png" /></a>
 
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S

SkylarM

Well-Known Member
Verified Provider
HenriqueSousa - WebUp 24/7 said:
I would say that you should add a good ratio between bad and go reviews.

For example if a provider has 5 bad reviews and 1 good review, his ratio is bad. Make something like 0.75 ratio less than that you remove the group, just an idea :)

Cheers,

Henrique
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Yeah, that has zero abuse potential from a community that may decide they want to screw around with a provider.
 
HenriqueSousa - WebUp 24/7

HenriqueSousa - WebUp 24/7

New Member
SkylarM said:
Yeah, that has zero abuse potential from a community that may decide they want to screw around with a provider.
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It can go both ways, you can have people trying to screw companies and other people that are motivated to review your company because they will be helping you get more customers and to help improve your business.

And if we are a community I don't think we should be screwing each others just for some reviews.

- Henrique
 
drmike

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
The boil down to such a status from my own perspective is some endorsement by the site (even if not intended by Mann).  That is effort was put into at time of verifications, substantiating that said provider operates legally, responsibly and does mostly right by common practices involving customers.

Providers and situations change, so provider status should be something that gets some annual or greater review and people weeded for multitude of reasons (inactive, company name or other info changed, ownership changes, poor customer treatment as a pattern, etc.).

One thing I take often issue with and seems to be popular with one NY State provider and their Matryoshka nested companies is the reprehensible practice of NO REFUNDS EVER.  I've seen many legitimate reasons to refund customers in my years, as much as my greedy fingers hate the feel of money leaving my clenched fist.  But wisdom lacking and greed that is overbearing has that lot of providers acting like respectful clowns who care not about customers.  Such in my eyes is a reason to prohibit said companies and any like them.

Community points or voting on a provider is a thing that can and will be gamed.  Easy to see gangs of people, often working together literally or hanging out together will prey on others.  We don't want that to escalate into bullydom.
 
DomainBop

DomainBop

Dormant VPSB Pathogen
Aldryic C said:
Potential improvement - convert the group title to a URL that redirects to a GOOGLE search for [provider name][reviews] in a  small popup window
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Fixed that to my liking.  If you link it to a reviews section on VPSB you'll have an increase in shilled good reviews and providers paying people on fiverr to join here and leave bad reviews about their competitors.
 
drmike

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
DomainBop said:
Fixed that to my liking.  If you link it to a reviews section on VPSB you'll have an increase in shilled good reviews and providers paying people on fiverr to join here and leave bad reviews about their competitors.
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Only problem is search too often is gamed in similar ways. 

WHT has ongoing issues and a war on shillers.  People still are gaming things there too due to high visibility and income potential.
 
MannDude

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
drmike said:
Only problem is search too often is gamed in similar ways. 

WHT has ongoing issues and a war on shillers.  People still are gaming things there too due to high visibility and income potential.
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And because all you need for 'proof' of having an account with a provider on WHT is something like providing a screenshot of a paid invoice, or server IP, etc.

Here, let me create a invoice for you in WHMCS and I'll mark it as paid. Here is a VPS with an IP. Go write a review for me now, please. Thanks!
 
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WebSearchingPro

WebSearchingPro

VPS Peddler
Verified Provider
Or you know, you could keep the verified provider title private and use it as an access control for posting offers instead of a visible title.
 
hellogoodbye

hellogoodbye

New Member
I don't think simply linking to reviews on vpsBoard in their profile or using ratios would work. There are many providers with little to no reviews to their names which still makes it hard to decide whether to trust them or not, and even a single positive review could theoretically earn someone a 100% solid rep because no negative reviews exist. Besides, what about mixed reviews? Where do those fall?

One suggestion I can think of is adding a new link in the top menu to a static list of the entire list of verified providers by alphabetical order. Provide a basic profile for each provider with publicly disclosed information like their site, when they started their business, where they operate from/are registered in, maybe even a point of contact (name and/or email). Link not only to a search for each name on vpsBoard, but also WHT, LET, and Google. This allows people to not only find reviews but also see how these providers conduct themselves publicly. You can even link the "Verified Provider" status in people's profiles to that page for both convenience and to reinforce the idea that members should do some research of their own and make their own decisions. My initial idea was to have a small impartial team that gathers a few noteworthy reviews for each provider, but I scrapped it because 1) I don't think forum members need their hand held and 2) every person has their own existing biases so impartiality would be near impossible to achieve.
 
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HalfEatenPie

HalfEatenPie

The Irrational One
Retired Staff
SkylarM said:
I think we should have council meetings every week, and 1 "verified provider" gets voted off the island each week, but they can be brought back into the fold if they prove themselves.
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Can we get like an actual island?  And every night have BBQ and beer?  Make it a giant party with servers, food, and drinks.  And of course a few 10 Gbit connections here and there.  
 
drmike

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
You know my big position on the Verified Status is to truly make it something the lousy and shady providers fear and those that play by the rules benefit from. There is inferred risk and liability in anything where publishing, gate keeping, etc. is being done.   As heavy as WHT is moderated and many dubious providers cry about, they fall FAR short of vetting and really could be shoved in a legal matter and pursued as giving airtime, advertising space, etc. to unsavory companies.   Something that happens all the dang time.

I mean who comes to mind first?  123Systems where the prior owner is a WHT moderator and the company is straight up, for real owned by CVPS.  123Systems that nut bag kicked people on annuals with MONTHS of sustained downtime in effort to get said customers not renew such give away plans and abandon ship, without any refund/compensation.  Yes, WHT still allows offers from such and give moderator level access to that jack ass. 

There are way too many sites out there for hosting that issue Best Of listings chosen from their friends, advertisers and whoever brown noses the best.  Most of which utterly disregards the market at large and comparable A vs. B type data to reach such conclusions.

VPSBoard should be better than the rest... people are on top of things here and the community is small enough still to lay down the rules and do things right.
 
drmike

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
SkylarM said:
I think we should have council meetings every week, and 1 "verified provider" gets voted off the island each week, but they can be brought back into the fold if they prove themselves.
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Still laughing at this one :)

I am all for giving people a few chances, with proper timeouts in between for reflection on their ahh shortcomings.

Problem with everything I recommend and this, really comes down to the software stack and integration time + costs + complexity.

Gets me to thinking VERIFIED STATUS should be married to  DailyServerDeals and Verified Status along with offers should enter from that direction.  Just my opinion and I may be way off base here for a multitude of reasons.
 
Lee

Lee

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
Retired Staff
MannDude said:
In the past I wanted to abolish the group and have all offers listed in the same category, and leave the research to the customer as to who to go with and who not to. Nowadays, I feel it's a unique feature however I'm starting to lean towards the thought that it needs to be now improved, instead of abolished.
Click to expand...
Remove it  for the very reasons you have said.  There are so many things wrong with a forum like this trying to take responsibility for the client instead of the client being held accountable for their rationale when it comes to picking the right host.

On the client side there is enough out there in the wild for anyone to determine whether a host is likely to fulfill their list of requirements.  If the provider is new then it becomes a game of chance based on their claims, nothing will change that.

If you want to impose additional requirements on those that want to be in the verified provider group that is any way connected to "reviews" then you equally need to come up with a process of how you determine whether that review is genuine or justified.  But then, if someone posts a review they will decide themselves what weight it carries in terms of whether they use the provider. 

@MannDude - If you do not want to endorse anyone you can place any warnings you like on the site however a verified providers group is an endorsement and that is how many see it, just as being Premium or Corporate on WHT equates to the same.  People trust those with a badge, you provide them with a badge here.

The prominence of the likes of Dr Mike and his continual tirade against the openness of providers whilst hiding behind his own wall of secrecy does nothing to help promote VPSBoard as a place any more or less trustworthy than LET and therefore being verified looses effect anyway.

The simple fact is that places like here, WHT, LET and others where discussions about providers take place and reviews are made is the verification that people need, not meeting a few largely worthless requirements to get a badge.
 
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Leyton

Leyton

Member
Verified Provider
I like some of the ideas on making the "Verified Provider" group a means for a resource on providers, pooling the information users might need to reach a balanced decision about purchasing. Provided its built in a way which can't be cheated.


However, that could require heavier work in the application review process, let alone the building of whatever system/plugin would be used to maintain that.


If @MannDude if of the mind of abolishing the group, I think perhaps a wording change could help to make it sound less of an endorsement, and more of an acknowledgement that someone is a repesentitive for a provider.


Perhaps just "Provider", or "Confirmed Provider" gives more of the tone that the person meets the boards posting requirements, but is not necessarily endorsed or reccomended by VPSBoard.
 
Lee

Lee

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
Retired Staff
A change to the name would make it less of an endorsement.  Just simply "Provider" tells the story perfectly fine.  Verified or Confirmed are words that people can easily interpret as an endorsement.

But then you have a signature if you want to tell people who you are and who you represent, so why need a group at all.
 
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