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MannDude

WHMCS to double their price of owned licenses.

71 posts in this topic

I welcome the increase as this will help with the cost of developers and new features that everyone is always asking for. You have to spend money to make money folks those that complain are just summer hosts and the price increase will just help cut down on those.

Uh, if they can't add new features with the revenue they make now then they can't do it, period. Stallion is a bigger code base than WHMCS and it took us only 3 months to build it in our spare time. WHMCS has a full team of developers and they're still dragging ass on things.

Where's an official Stripe module? This should've been developed ages ago, instead people have to use a community made one or pay for one.

Francisco

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Uh, if they can't add new features with the revenue they make now then they can't do it, period. Stallion is a bigger code base than WHMCS and it took us only 3 months to build it in our spare time. WHMCS has a full team of developers and they're still dragging ass on things.

Where's an official Stripe module? This should've been developed ages ago, instead people have to use a community made one or pay for one.

Francisco

 

Yes this is also true but the higher ups want a raise so they need to hike up prices.  :D

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I welcome the increase as this will help with the cost of developers and new features that everyone is always asking for. You have to spend money to make money folks those that complain are just summer hosts and the price increase will just help cut down on those.

 

Do you really think they will do that? lol I think I would have a higher chance at being a millionaire than that happening. If that really was the case why didn't they do this a year ago? Maybe two years ago?

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Honestly I can't think of any more features I need from WHMCS. Anything I want I can add myself and since I started using it about 8 years ago I've never run into a single bug that caused any disruption to my clients (and before you mention the wave of exploits, there were easy workarounds available and none of our clients or us were inconvenienced by them so my statement holds true). I guess I'm one of the few people that tests new releases before pushing them to production. :)

 

Do you know how much they charged for a leased license for version 3.1 back in 2007? It was $13.95 (I still have the invoices). Fast forward today (8 years later, version 5.3.13) and the price has increased by $2/month. So they want to increase their prices for support and updates, I say good for them because it's well worth it compared to the other billing panels that lack the features and stability.

 

Comparing WHMCS to HostBill? Not even in the realm of reality, how many extreme price changes have they seen in their short life without having nearly the same functionality as WHMCS.

 

Comparing WHMCS to Blesta? What about the 150% price increase when they released their last major update. Last time I used them they still lacked the basic accounting/reporting/auditing features that WHMCS has. We tried switching to Blesta a few times, but it was impossible for us to do so without hiring an accountant to handle our finances with a different system. Plan on keeping track of any type of metrics? With Blesta that needs to be handled by hand also. I really like the look of it and it has a lot of potential, it just can't compare to WHMCS right now in terms of managing a company in such a volatile market where you need to constantly review performance metrics and accounting details almost daily.

 

Is WHMCS the best software ever? No, not at all (I wrote a suitable replacement for it in just a few days). Is WHMCS the best option for our business? Yes, nothing else can come close except maybe Ubersmith but if we had that kind of money this discussion wouldn't matter anymore.

 

I just can't understand why people are upset that a business is raising its prices a small amount in order to increase income, that's how business works and (as mentioned many times before) the new pricing IS NOT MANDATORY (unlike HostBill and Blesta's price increases which were required if you want to use their software). You can simply not pay for support or updates or switch to (the more expensive) lease license. You have options, it's just not the options you want to hear because it's different than a year ago.

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What about the 150% price increase when they released their last major update.

Blesta offered a $99 price special promotion a lot of people grabbed (including me), you can also get Blesta at the old prices from distributors like LicensePal and BuycPanel so you can't compare Blesta to WHMCS for prices... WHMCS cut their own nose off with that.

Blesta's old site: https://web.archive.org/web/20120512171805/https://www.blesta.com/order/

Last time I used them they still lacked the basic accounting/reporting/auditing features that WHMCS has.

We tried switching to Blesta a few times, but it was impossible for us to do so without hiring an accountant to handle our finances with a different system.

The last I knew Blesta and WHMCS are supposed to be "Billing" systems not Accounting or Auditing systems, that's where Xero and others come in, as for reporting you can do basic needed reports and in 3.5 make your own custom reports.

Billing systems are for Billing, accountant's and accounting systems are there for Accounting because that's what they are.

Plan on keeping track of any type of metrics? With Blesta that needs to be handled by hand also.

Metrics for what? Currency converters? or finding out how much you've made? you can find most of that on the billing widget, and select the dropdown for the currencies. so USD, GBP, etc has their own section so nothing is mixed since you don't want them mixed for accounting anyway.

I really like the look of it and it has a lot of potential, it just can't compare to WHMCS right now in terms of managing a company in such a volatile market where you need to constantly review performance metrics and accounting details almost daily.

Your comparing a Billing system to a system which went out of hand to support everything like Wordpress, and look at both of them, Wordpress is full of exploits and needing patching daily, the only difference between them is Wordpress is open-source and you can fix everything yourself if you know how.

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Blesta offered a $99 price special promotion a lot of people grabbed (including me), you can also get Blesta at the old prices from distributors like LicensePal and BuycPanel so you can't compare Blesta to WHMCS for prices... WHMCS cut their own nose off with that.

Blesta's old site: https://web.archive.org/web/20120512171805/https://www.blesta.com/order/

If you run a promotion for more than 2 years, it's your regular price and not a promotional price.

 

The last I knew Blesta and WHMCS are supposed to be "Billing" systems not Accounting or Auditing systems, that's where Xero and others come in, as for reporting you can do basic needed reports and in 3.5 make your own custom reports.

Billing systems are for Billing, accountant's and accounting systems are there for Accounting because that's what they are.

Metrics for what? Currency converters? or finding out how much you've made? you can find most of that on the billing widget, and select the dropdown for the currencies. so USD, GBP, etc has their own section so nothing is mixed since you don't want them mixed for accounting anyway.

Your comparing a Billing system to a system which went out of hand to support everything like Wordpress, and look at both of them, Wordpress is full of exploits and needing patching daily, the only difference between them is Wordpress is open-source and you can fix everything yourself if you know how.

 

You're right Blesta is a billing system whereas WHMCS is not. There in lies the main difference between the two. Thanks for pointing that out, I completely forgot that WHMCS isn't marketed as just a billing system which makes comparing the two pointless because they are designed to accomplish different tasks.

 

Now to get back on topic about WHMCS since apples to oranges comparisons are never fun. :D

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If you run a promotion for more than 2 years, it's your regular price and not a promotional price.

Not sure how you get that, you can hold a promotion as long as you want to, in our local supermarket they sell extra strong mints, 3 for a £1, they hold that for months and months they do take it off for a bit but then put it back on, is that not a promotional offer?

You're right Blesta is a billing system whereas WHMCS is not. There in lies the main difference between the two. Thanks for pointing that out, I completely forgot that WHMCS isn't marketed as just a billing system which makes comparing the two pointless because they are designed to accomplish different tasks.

 

Now to get back on topic about WHMCS since apples to oranges comparisons are never fun. :D

It sort of gives it off in the name Web Hosting Complete Solution. But with Blesta it's 99.3% open so you can do what you like, I've got clients who use it for selling office space, I sell licenses, others use it for hosting.

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I just can't understand why people are upset that a business is raising its prices a small amount in order to increase income, that's how business works...

 

 

Business also works within the law.  I bought a product that clearly stated future updates and support would be $49.99/year, or $45, or whatever the hell it is.  You can't just go and change that all willy-nilly.  After all, it's a contract...it really is.  By all means, charge new purchasers $99/year.  I have no problem with that at all.  But when you advertise something as $49/year, you have to honor that.  That's what a contract is.

 

Here's the latest:

 

* Owned Licenses include 1 Year Support & Updates access with the initial purchase. After the first year, support & updates access can be optionally renewed to maintain access at a cost of $99.95 per year.

 

That's a contract!  There's a clear meeting of the minds, as to what is given and at what price.  You get the following:

 

a)  An owned license

b)  1 year Support and Updates access (included in the cost)

c)  Support and Updates access renewed at $99.95 per year.

 

 

I wish I could find it in one of my law books, but there was actually a class action lawsuit in which people purchased mugs or cups or what have you from a convenience store, under the advertisement that future refills with that purchased cup would be $0.59.  They raised it to $0.79 or $0.99 or whatever, and were sued and lost.  Of course it's just the lawyers who actually made any real money, but they were required to honor the past pricing in perpetuity.  There was a clear meeting of the minds, and a contract was formed...based simply on an advertisement.

 

I'm not nearly as pissed off because I've had my license since 2010, so it scales quite nicely in relation to cost per month, but what about the people who spent $250 on an owned license say last year, or even this year?  It's way more cost effective in terms of risk/investment to simply pay for a monthly license.  Even if you drag an owned license out 5 years, it's costing damn near $13/mo. (8.25 + 4.16) for the equivalent features of a monthly license.  You can buy a monthly license from any reseller cheaper than that, without the investment, without the risk that you will go out of business or want to switch billing platforms, that WHMCS will go out of business, raise prices further, etc.

 

The owned license folks are getting the short end of the stick on this one, plain and simple.

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The short end of the stick is what got me with one we just bought a few months ago so that's about the only part that is upsetting.

However the amount we have saved on multiple others we've had for years makes it not so bad.

 

We tried blesta but like others said lacking features was the main reason why we never used it and we bought the lifetime license with multiple sub ones for it hoping to make a switch. Possibly in the fuiture it will work out better.

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@WSWD I haven't reviewed their TOS yet but I'm certain that the contractual terms renew each time you renew your support/updates. The support/updates are optional and as such there is no real contract in place since the buyer can opt out at any time. Like a hosting account, a provider can change the pricing at any time but a client's price won't change until renewal.

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It actually isn't quite like a hosting account.  It's WAY different when you are buying a physical product (software), because you are making that purchase based upon the price of future updates, that are offered collectively with the software package.  It's not an "optional" package at all...they are very closely tied together.  Else, why would somebody purchase a copy instead of having a monthly lease?  If you had no intention of purchasing the "optional" package, it makes no sense to pay $250 instead of $155.  Even at 2 years, you're at $350 vs. $310.  Makes no sense at all.  So it's very much a combined package, and when you make a sale based upon that combined package and then change the price, that's really bad juju. 

 

Let's say I own and sell a really specialized software...we'll call it Bryanpress. :D :D   It can only run on my servers and be hosted on my network.  So I sell this Bryanpress software for $200 with a free year of hosting, and note that hosting for following years can be purchased at $100.  I get all sorts of users, and they're bogging down my support channels, so I raise the price.  I say, "No...$100 is not enough.  Subsequent years will now be $1000." 

 

I don't know that it would fly, legally.  People purchased my software with the written impression that the yearly costs thereafter would be fixed at $100.  If I change that, it's absolutely a violation of the contract.  It really is. 

 

[EDIT]  I don't know that every judge would see that way, as it is somewhat cloudy, but I would certainly fight it as a contract issue. 

Edited by WSWD
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@WSWD Their Terms of Service basically say to refer to the EULA for everything and the EULA states that you agree to the pricing on their website unless you have a separate agreement in place. Their legal team definitely should have done a better job here but technically it's possible to contact WHMCS for a different "Pricing and Term Agreement", but I doubt they have any reason to comply since there's already an agreement in place and it would probably require a large amount of volume to make it worth it for them.

 

My advice is just renew your support and updates for 2 years and enjoy the savings for another two years. Blesta might advance a great deal in 2 years or another replacement will pop-up (like when vBulletin did something like this and the developers left to form XenForo).  :)

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@KuJoe   I still don't know that I agree with that 100%.  Their EULA is all good and well, but what's actually in their advertisements says otherwise, or could at least lead a potential consumer to believe otherwise.  Certainly a stretch of an example, but It's almost like advertising a car, showing a picture, but then in the contract saying that it only comes with 3 tires, or no engine.  The ad would certainly lead a consumer to believe that they're purchasing an entire car. 

 

Would the WHMCS front page be enough to override the EULA in court?  I don't know. 

 

I'm still convinced it could be construed as a bait and switch.  Let's say they raise their price to $1 million a year tomorrow.  Somebody who bought an owned license today (under the impression that the upgrades and support are $99/year) is clearly not going to renew a 2nd year.  Had they not been misled, they likely never would have purchased the product to begin with, or at the very least, purchased a monthly license instead.  That would save them ~$100 that first year.  Based on what I would consider to be false pretenses, they made an extra $100 out of him, that they otherwise probably wouldn't have made. 

 

Had @PureVoltage not been misled, he might not have purchased another owned license.  Now he's out $250, and basically a 4-ish year investment to break even on his purchase...assuming the prices don't go up more in those 4 years.

 

It just doesn't sit well with me.  Like I said...it's not a big deal.  It's a nice dinner for 1 without a bottle of wine. :D  But just because everyone here can afford it or should be able to afford it doesn't make it right.  I still say it's damn near illegal, if not completely. :D :D

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@WSWD We'll agree to disagree then. When we purchased our owned license from them last year I didn't expect the price to remain the same forever so I guess for every person who expected a guaranteed price, there's a person like me who expected it to change eventually. Now had they sent me a new invoice before my next renewal date saying I needed to pay more for the remainder of my year, I would be pissed.

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There are two default contracts you sign to when ordering an owned licence, one being the software itself and one being the "Support & Updates" addon.
 
Your "Support & Updates" contract ends at the end of your billing period (One year after your initial purchase an so on), that contract terminates unless you renew with the new contract terms.
 
It is optional to renew the second contact, the only difference is the price to renew your contract for Support & Updates. I really don't see why it's such a big deal?
 
The End User License Agreement cannot be used to disagree with the increase in price as the EULA is for the software contract ONLY and not the "Support & Updates".

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And boom another update :D haha and they blocked us on twitter so we must be digging their grave.

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This is the first time I have heard of this but I am using leased licenses as it is the most convenient way for me to pay. However I would not object as long as more features come in to the control panel itself, there are a number of features that would be greatly appreiated.

 

Developers are not cheap and I think what those people complaining need to realise is that if they went out and asked a coder to provide them with a control panel to meet their needs it would cost a lot more then that of a owned license.

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This is the first time I have heard of this but I am using leased licenses as it is the most convenient way for me to pay. However I would not object as long as more features come in to the control panel itself, there are a number of features that would be greatly appreiated.

 

Developers are not cheap and I think what those people complaining need to realise is that if they went out and asked a coder to provide them with a control panel to meet their needs it would cost a lot more then that of a owned license.

Well WHMCS should have thought about that years ago they have been around since 2005.

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I'm not happy about this. We are forced to pay for their 'support and updates' even if we don't use them because there are 100,000 security vulnerabilities that are constantly being patched and you don't get security updates for free.

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I'm not happy about this. We are forced to pay for their 'support and updates' even if we don't use them because there are 100,000 security vulnerabilities that are constantly being patched and you don't get security updates for free.

 

I believe you can still get the small version and security patches (ie: 5.3.13 --> 5.3.14) even without having the support & updates active.

 

But yeah, I also disagree with this price increase and can't find any grounds to justify it out of the blue like that.

 

It's gotten to the point where owning a license isn't much different than leasing one... I mean you're making an investment that has the ROI in 22 months to save up $7 bucks per month afterwards...

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