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      Current state of vpsBoard   02/04/2017

      Dear vpsBoard members and guests:

      Over the last year or two vpsBoard activity and traffic has dwindled. I have had a change of career and interests, and as such am no longer an active member of the web hosting industry.

      Due to time constraints and new interests I no longer wish to continue to maintain vpsBoard. The web site will remain only as an archive to preserve and showcase some of the great material, guides, and industry news that has been generated by members, some of which I remain in contact to this very day and now regard as personal friends.

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Hsin

BuyVM(Review) awful experience

69 posts in this topic

A quick summary:

(to clarify, our billing hours are 06h-15h PST, and Hsin was informed of this)

08/13/2015 21:05 -  Hsin opens a ticket wanting to order a managed service.

08/13/2015 21:15  I come back on shift to handle the order, clarify that cPanel license costs are not refunded, request whether he would prefer Las Vegas or Luxembourg, and other information I need to complete the order

08/13/2015 21:21 - Hsin replies that he wants to be setup in Los Angeles

 

08/13/2015 21:22 - I inform Hsin that Los Angeles is not one of the locations available, and request his desired domain for the second time

 

08/13/2015 21:48 - Hsin replies and choose Vegas.

 

08/13/2015 21:57 - I ask for a third time for the domain he wishes to use

 

At this point I'm 7+ hours past my shift's end waiting on his reply, and sign off to spend time with the family and get some sleep, as my next shift started in 6 hours.

08/13/2015 22:11 - Hsin replies with the domain information I need to create the order.

 

08/14/2015 06:47 - I create the order, and let him know I'll be getting it setup as soon as payment is made.

 

08/14/2015 06:56 - He asks a few questions regarding DDoS Protecting and Litespeed. 

 

Now, regarding Litespeed - Hsin informed us that he would acquire the license himself and provide that to us.  He *never* provided said license, and I'll get into that in a bit.

08/14/2015 07:06 - I answer his questions, and inform him that while Litespeed will have to wait on Francisco, it will not in *any* way hinder his use of the service, and he'd be able to use the server as soon as I had it set up.


08/14/2015 07:12 - Hsin asks how long setup will take.

 

08/14/2015 07:31 - I inform Hsin that I'll be working on the order shortly after it's paid, and I estimate having the VM provisioned, cPanel installed and licensed, configuration done, and in his hands ready to go in under three hours (counting the cPanel install).

 

08/14/2015 07:43 - Hsin replies stating that the time is acceptable, and payment has been made.

 

08/14/2015 07:51  - I reply to tell Hsin that I've started the cPanel installation, and will inform him of when it's finished.

08/14/2015 11:04 - I reply to the ticket again - his server is fully operational and ready to go.  He is given login credentials, and informed that the server is ready for use, and that Francisco will be switching him to Litespeed that afternoon.

 

Hsin's server is now operational.  At this point, he had made *no* mention of having us do imports or other work for him, nor gave any indication that he would need assistance with something as simple as FTP.

08/14/2015 12:59 - I reply to the ticket again, informing Hsin that Litespeed is now active.

Another note here - Hsin *never* supplied us with the Litespeed license he said he would be obtaining.  Francisco set him up on a trial license in order to get the service up to Hsin's desired spec as quickly as possible.

That's where my role in the setup ends.  He opened another ticket for nameserver assistance, which was answered and handled within a timely manner.  The next I hear from Hsin is a *novel* of a ticket with why he wanted a refund.  And yes, I was indeed completely baffled as to someone finding *me* to be the nice guy and Fran to be the jerk.  As Fran so aptly put it, it was like waking up in Bizarro land BuyVM.  Hsin was reminded that we don't do refunds on cPanel license costs.  He was given a full refund minus the license, which means that we had just eaten all of the time and effort that went into getting him running.

Only thing I have left to say is, be careful about what bridges you burn.  Wasting our time was one thing, and could be forgiven.  But to try and drag us through the mud because you wanted to be unreasonable and contradictory?  I hope for your sake you find a provider to tolerate you, because you won't be back on our network again.

Edited by Aldryic C'boas
Formatting corrections
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You wasted my time as well and you act as if you are the only ones who had to eat the cost...you had to eat the cost of my 'time wasted' with you and I had to eat the cost of the cpanel license you don't refund.....Oh well, I am not bitching over $14 so stop bitching over $9
 
I'm bitching about poor customer service.
 
@Aldryic C'boas Idk why you or Francisco think I want to be 'forgiven' and bridges I burn with you guys lol. That just sounds egotistical lol.I have no intentions of being on your network again...had I wanted to be on your network I never would've cancelled in the first place.
 
I'd rather use EIG's worst host than use you guys.
 
I found a provider (Hawkhost) who can 'tolerate' me...interesting enough, I haven't spoken to them since set up Friday Night/Saturday morning because I have no reason to...they...wait for it...adequately kept me in t he loop and communicated with me and there was no confusion.
 
Now to address your points
1. You are actually right...You did have to ask me 3 times and for that I do apologize nor do I or have I blamed you for that. I was doing multiple things at once, in contact with multiple hosts at once and I didn't completely read the tickets....hence why I originally thought it was Los Angels and not Las Vegas.

(Which I apologized for my slip up and acknowledged in the ticket).
 
The problem yet again wasn't with how long I took...you chose to answer the ticket during off hours and then you chose to leave without saying anything to clue the customer in that you  had gone. I don't know your hours or what you had going on....
I am not irrational nor unreasonable to think you shouldn't get sleep or spend time with family. I had just finished working myself when I reached the ticket.
 
Had you had said "Hey it is after hours for billing but this will be addressed in the AM," that would've prevented the complaint of "Well he disappeared for like 8 hours without a word"

Communication.
That wasn't an unrealistic expectation to expect someone to communicate that they had left for the night.
 
2. The litespeed thing...if you already told me that Francisco was handling the litespeed why would I need to talk to YOU if you are not capable of handling it?
You just acknowledged it yourself you told me Francisco is handling it. Furthermore, you said would be in a couple of hours......however you eventually did set up the litespeed on the trial. First of all you never asked did I want to be on the trial or not, you just stuck me on it.
 
Which is fine. But don't sit here and try to make it sound like I delayed anything if Francisco was the one meant to be working with me, not you.
 
I was going to stick with the trial and just buy the license on the same day the actual invoice for the server would be do on September 1st so that all the hosting stuff would be on the same day.
 
3. As far as the server goes, I did let you  know I had my backup. This was actually my 2nd time mentioning it to buyvm. I originally mentioned it to Francisco and I was told you guys do handle migrations.
 
I mentioned to Aldyric that I had a back-up...at no point did he mention anything about assisting me with it or anything despite buyvm knowing I was going to need a migration.
 
You also suggested I not mess with the password or anything so that Francisco could do what he needed to do the server. So I decided to wait for Francisco.
 
Here's what I don't understand...I had already made the complaint about this to Francisco while I talked to him on chat and he already explained to me that you had went to sleep or whatever and that you also weren't familiar with litespeed.
 
I was already over that...and I accepted that. I also accepted the fact that I used the unverified paypal...I am not disputing that by any means. I own up to that.
 
I've also said several times that I have no issue with you personally and the reason my experience with you was better was because you carried yourself with a level of professionalism that apparently Francisco lacks.

The problem and the main reason for this thread has little to do with you and what happened during my interactions with Francisco after dealing with you?
 
  • If I was planning to upload the backup via cpanel(like I do with EVERY HOST), why I clue you in for a product (FileZilla) and let you know I didn't know how to use it, if I had never used it before and at the time saw no reason to?

    But let's address the overall point of this thread since people seem to gloss over it and are quick to defend Buyvm/blame me despite the fact I have never once denied any of my own mistakes/poor choices
  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....
  2. Even after He got the attitude, I still tried to speak respectfully to him...so why when I mention the refund he tries to deny the policy that I was told via ticket by you, Aldyric? He flat out lied and then tried to change it up as if he didn't know.
  3. Why sit here and try and make it sound as if I asked him for help with Filezilla. I told him that I could  upload the backup by another means since cpanel is not working and he wanted me to use FileZilla to which I explained I had no experience with it and HE offered to show me how to use it. That was his choice. Not my request.
  4. Why is it okay for him to assume that the upload would take 3-4 hours despite me never giving him ANY type of measurement of time? And when pointed out, more than once, why did he not apologize for his assumption.
  5. Furthermore, Francisco claimed he could see how long the progress of the upload was going to take via FileZilla....so he should have been able to tell it was not going 3-4 hours. The upload itself took an hour.
  6. Why did Francisco sit there and tell that lie about going off to lunch and then when confronted about it...he tries to make it sound as if he decided to skip lunch and was waiting around for me?
  7. When it became obvious there was an issue with communication on both mine and Buyvm's part as well assumptions instead of realizing that, why then take on a defensive stance and try to blame the customer entirely?
  8. More importantly, why couldn't the OWNER handle a refund? He is the owner...according to paypal, my cash went to him base don his name. Because he didn't want to step on toes and start a turf war? How is that starting a war exactly?
  9. Why then are you in your IRC chat telling people that I wanted Free stuff? What free stuff did I want exactly?  So you are blatantly lying.
  10. More importantly, the level of ego.....If I apologize you'd gladly take me   back? Who do you think you are? LMAO

    There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones I honestly didn't expect much from this thread but then discovering from Manndude this forum is hosted by Buyvm, I think I understand why nobody is able to look at it from both povs and why it is okay to rationalize poor customer service :D
Edited by Hsin

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The way you keep mentioning Hawkhost in every post you do makes me think you're being paid by them.

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The way you keep mentioning Hawkhost in every post you do makes me think you're being paid by them.

Totes am. Way you find a way to defend Buyvm makes me think you're paid by them.

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You got the 'poor customer' part right.  Not so sure about the service part.  They did their job and set the server up, you decided to act like a 5 year old and cry cause you didn't get your way and asked them basically to 'fuck them selves' by refunding your money, so they LITERALLY wasted time and money on you. Then, to add insult to injury you come here and bash them in public. @Aldryic C'boas is right, you sure are good at burning bridges. You failed to have any respect at all for the work they DID do for you and all the things they bent over backwards to help you with, FOR FREE, such as teaching you how to use an FTP client (which anyone who has been in this industry for any period knows how to use)?

I really don't care about BuyVM or how it effects their image, I don't use them as a service provider and I don't plan to, but I can tell you that I work in this industry and I surely wouldn't put up with your bullshit.  That is what is effecting my opinion of this situation, watching how you abused courtesy and then shit on the people who were going out of their way to help you.  You acknowledge we are all human, but you seem to fail to understand what that really means. Just remember, do on to others as you wish them to do on to you, this holds true in every aspect of life, not just the ones you want it to.  

If you had any common sense you would have just walked away from this as a lesson learned or moved on and taken the issue with a grain of salt.  Instead you have found it necessary to come on a forum and shit on the people who in the end were really just trying to help you.

If that was your goal here, good job, you win!  Do you feel better about your self now?

My 2 cents.

Cheers!

Edited by TheLinuxBug
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You got the 'poor customer' part right.  Not so sure about the service part.  They did their job and set the server up, you decided to act like a 5 year old and cry cause you didn't get your way and asked them basically to 'fuck them selves' by refunding your money, so they LITERALLY wasted time and money on you. Then, to add insult to injury you come here and bash them in public. @Aldryic C'boas is right, you sure are good at burning bridges. You failed to have any respect at all for the work they DID do for you and all the things they bent over backwards to help you with, FOR FREE, such as teaching you how to use an FTP client (which anyone who has been in this industry for any period knows how to use)?

I really don't care about BuyVM or how it effects their image, I don't use them as a service provider and I don't plan to, but I can tell you that I work in this industry and I surely wouldn't put up with your bullshit.  That is what is effecting my opinion of this situation, watching how you abused courtesy and then shit on the people who were going out of their way to help you.  You acknowledge we are all human, but you seem to fail to understand what that really means. Just remember, do on to others as you wish them to do on to you, this holds true in every aspect of life, not just the ones you want it to.  

If you had any common sense you would have just walked away from this as a lesson learned or moved on and taken the issue with a grain of salt.  Instead you have found it necessary to come on a forum and shit on the people who in the end were really just trying to help you.

If that was your goal here, good job, you win!  Do you feel better about your self now?

My 2 cents.

Cheers!

That is too cute. People will read and see whatever they want to see and I find it funny that no one wants to address any type of calling out of questionable behaviors on buyvm's part ;)

I am glad that you wouldn't want anything to do with me because I want nothing to do with you. I showed appreciation when I opened my ticket and thanked them for that time.

How exactly did I abuse anything? They offer a money back guarantee for those of us who are not happy for whatever reason. I did nothing wrong requesting a refund.

There are many hosts who do not offer refunds for their products

Wiredtree and Future hosting being two companies I have used. Don't offer a money back guarantee and then complain that you had to do the service essentially for free....especially when you weren't the only one to lose money.

I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

If this was WHT, where I guess I should post this review, i'd be more concerned.

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The way you keep mentioning Hawkhost in every post you do makes me think you're being paid by them.

Totes am. Way you find a way to defend Buyvm makes me think you're paid by them.

As much as I'd love to be paid by every host I recommend, logic tells me that a competitor wouldn't pay another competitor to tout their services. I got my first-ever BuyVM VPS this morning, and legitimately speaking, have enjoyed it. I'm not afraid to recommend or support other companies, especially if they offer something we don't or can't.

Edited by OSTKCabal

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This thread is still dragging on...  Considering the time + beverage investment to run the loop the customer has more than doubled his losses.

Lesson I learned from this is manage customers like a pimp, especially demanding ones.  Also give timelines that are 24 hour cycles unless you are doing that work now.

I also learned that doing more, highly qualified and technical stuff for clients isn't how to spend your time sacrificing your life.  It's a nice thing and perhaps a business model, but one stands to get burnt and ugly public threads by pitbull customers like this.

All I can say to the OP at this point is go hit up PayPal (assuming you paid with such) for a refund.  But I highly recommend not running in circles and getting slappy with them.

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Let me stop beating around the bush and get right to the point, instead of trying to lead you to your own epiphany.  When you take advantage of a money back situation like you did, this means you are parting ways amicably, so I ask you, if you parted amicably taking their money and time and not feeling bad about it, then why did you come here and then attack them? To take up more of their time and money?  This is the only real reason to open a thread like this.  Sure you have your opinions, but since you made the decision to take back you money and move on, that is what you should have done, not be disingenuous and go straight to the forums and bash them.  Your an asshole, you basically broke the unwritten rule for refunds... why do you think they even offer them?  It is a face saving way to part amicably.  You turned it into, "HAHA I paid nothing and then shit on you and made you have to spend more time replying to thread on forums cause I am a total fuckwit", not, "Ohh I am sorry things couldn't work out, I will move on and find someone who I can work better with".

>I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

And again, the only point to this sentence is a dig at the people who already spent 3+ hours of their time freely helping you and then they even refunded you.  Why can you not understand why this makes you look like a piece of dirt?

my 2 cents.

Cheers!

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This shows that BuyVM are even better. Man guiding a customer on how to use FTP? WTF is 2015 and you dont know how to use FTP? Do you even Internet bro?

 

WTF this is 2015 and someone is showing someone else how to use an insecure transfer protocol like FTP???? 

I would have immediately refunded after the FTP stuff. 

I would immediately demand a refund if a host  told me to use FTP (instead of SFTP or SCP).

I'm assuming the OP meant SFTP (or FTP/S) not FTP

By the way, I'm not a BuyVM customer and never have been.

Not a customer, never have been, and when I post pony videos they're always from that other pony loving host

  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....

If you thought Francisco's responses were rude, I'm assuming you never met Gordon. :P

There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones

Those 10 things alone are relatively minor issues compared to actual major problems you'll encounter at many hosts (starting with hosts who don't monitor their systems, hosts who can take days to do a hardware replacement, kiddie hosts who rummage through their customers files, hosts who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to security, etc).

 

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Hsin, looking at this crap, it appears:

1) You got your VPS setup within the 3 hours stated.  Then you wanted a bunch of additional services that weren't part of the deal, and went berserk when that wasn't completed instantly.

2) There was a mixup over the refund policy and Fran told you to take it up with Aldyric so Aldyric could do what he told you.  No you should not expect the owner to micromanage the billing guy.  If Aldyric refused a refund despite terms already stated, you could conceivably appeal to Fran about it afterwards, but Fran is not the first person to approach.

3) In fact you did get the refund as stated, so you have no grounds for complaints in that department.  Linuxbug's post about this is well taken.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

I've had my own issues with BuyVM (see my post history) but it looks to me like they did fine here and you sound pretty bad.

I hope the mods close the thread pretty soon, since it looks like just about everyone except for you has reached the same conclusion.

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4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

There's a lot of people that we invest a lot of time into that pay us very little. This is our work and if we're sitting on our thumbs spinning around during business hours, that's not helping anyone. We have no problem doing fully custom installs (i've done anycast setups w/ full keepalive and the works for people paying us < $10/month). There's a reason i've said "We're the host your host goes to for support" - It's cocky but true more than once. We enjoy helping, debugging, etc.

But yes, most of the big managed VPS companies out there are your standard VPS + cPanel + support for cPanel only. Anything custom past that gets billed as admin time at $XXX/hour.

Francisco

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Just goes to show, if you go the extra mile... heck if you go the extra 50 miles like in this case, some people will never be truly happy.

The way I see the situation, it clearly states that cPanel cost is non refundable... written in the terms you (OP) agreed with when purchasing.

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This shows that BuyVM are even better. Man guiding a customer on how to use FTP? WTF is 2015 and you dont know how to use FTP? Do you even Internet bro?

 

WTF this is 2015 and someone is showing someone else how to use an insecure transfer protocol like FTP???? 

I would have immediately refunded after the FTP stuff. 

I would immediately demand a refund if a host  told me to use FTP (instead of SFTP or SCP).

I'm assuming the OP meant SFTP (or FTP/S) not FTP

By the way, I'm not a BuyVM customer and never have been.

Not a customer, never have been, and when I post pony videos they're always from that other pony loving host

  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....

If you thought Francisco's responses were rude, I'm assuming you never met Gordon. :P

There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones

Those 10 things alone are relatively minor issues compared to actual major problems you'll encounter at many hosts (starting with hosts who don't monitor their systems, hosts who can take days to do a hardware replacement, kiddie hosts who rummage through their customers files, hosts who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to security, etc).

 

No I meant FTP

Hsin, looking at this crap, it appears:

1) You got your VPS setup within the 3 hours stated.  Then you wanted a bunch of additional services that weren't part of the deal, and went berserk when that wasn't completed instantly.

2) There was a mixup over the refund policy and Fran told you to take it up with Aldyric so Aldyric could do what he told you.  No you should not expect the owner to micromanage the billing guy.  If Aldyric refused a refund despite terms already stated, you could conceivably appeal to Fran about it afterwards, but Fran is not the first person to approach.

3) In fact you did get the refund as stated, so you have no grounds for complaints in that department.  Linuxbug's post about this is well taken.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

I've had my own issues with BuyVM (see my post history) but it looks to me like they did fine here and you sound pretty bad.

I hope the mods close the thread pretty soon, since it looks like just about everyone except for you has reached the same conclusion.

1. I wanted services that fell under what they agreed to manage...I could see if I asked for something that Buyvm strictly said they didn't support. I expect for them to know how to handle things adequately they agree to support without needing to pass it off and further delay, imo.

2. You call it a mix-up....I call it lying. I never asked Francisco to micromanage the billing guy...However, let's use a slightly different example. Let's say I am unhappy at a store....I am talking to the manager/store owner and making a complaint.

Why doesn't the store owner know that stores return/refund policy and is quoting me something incorrectly and basically calling me a liar when I tell him what I was told? Then why does the store owner then say "Well I guess that's what it is..." as if he is unsure.

You are the store owner....you should know the policy? Furthermore, you are the store owner...if I am dealing with you presently. Don't pass me off to the cashier, who while capable of handling the refund, isn't who I was dealing with.

3. The refund is not apart of this complaint. So what are you talking about?

4. Funny, I've been with several companies before Buyvm and presently after Buyvm, for roughly the same price.....Had no issues with them on the level of this.

It seems you and others are missing the overall point. The main issue is not how long it took...it's the fact that so many things could have been handled better and prevented had the communication been better and then when the customer(me) voiced a complaint about issues the company either lied flat out and double-talked or acted clueless. Furthermore, the company then goes on to tell others more lies about things garnering sympathy more support.

Not professional at all and I will be making sure this is known on most hosting sites I frequent.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

There's a lot of people that we invest a lot of time into that pay us very little. This is our work and if we're sitting on our thumbs spinning around during business hours, that's not helping anyone. We have no problem doing fully custom installs (i've done anycast setups w/ full keepalive and the works for people paying us < $10/month). There's a reason i've said "We're the host your host goes to for support" - It's cocky but true more than once. We enjoy helping, debugging, etc.

But yes, most of the big managed VPS companies out there are your standard VPS + cPanel + support for cPanel only. Anything custom past that gets billed as admin time at $XXX/hour.

Francisco

I am curious about these 'big companies' because I have been with them and I am with someone now, larger than buyvm, and I have yet to be billed anyting for admin time.

I think the only time that came up was with A Small Orange and litespeed...since they didn't actively support litespeed, they were going to charge me admin  time for an installation.

So Most is a blanket statement.....Many do charge admin fees but there are also many well-known(and far more professional hosts) that are capable of providing excellent service beyond simple VPS/Cpanel  support.....

Let me stop beating around the bush and get right to the point, instead of trying to lead you to your own epiphany.  When you take advantage of a money back situation like you did, this means you are parting ways amicably, so I ask you, if you parted amicably taking their money and time and not feeling bad about it, then why did you come here and then attack them? To take up more of their time and money?  This is the only real reason to open a thread like this.  Sure you have your opinions, but since you made the decision to take back you money and move on, that is what you should have done, not be disingenuous and go straight to the forums and bash them.  Your an asshole, you basically broke the unwritten rule for refunds... why do you think they even offer them?  It is a face saving way to part amicably.  You turned it into, "HAHA I paid nothing and then shit on you and made you have to spend more time replying to thread on forums cause I am a total fuckwit", not, "Ohh I am sorry things couldn't work out, I will move on and find someone who I can work better with".

>I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

And again, the only point to this sentence is a dig at the people who already spent 3+ hours of their time freely helping you and then they even refunded you.  Why can you not understand why this makes you look like a piece of dirt?

my 2 cents.

Cheers!

What 'unwritten' rule for a refund?

So let me get this straight because I got the refund I shouldn't have expressed my complaints and concerns here because they gave me a refund for what I deemed to be piss poor service?

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This shows that BuyVM are even better. Man guiding a customer on how to use FTP? WTF is 2015 and you dont know how to use FTP? Do you even Internet bro?

 

WTF this is 2015 and someone is showing someone else how to use an insecure transfer protocol like FTP???? 

I would have immediately refunded after the FTP stuff. 

I would immediately demand a refund if a host  told me to use FTP (instead of SFTP or SCP).

I'm assuming the OP meant SFTP (or FTP/S) not FTP

By the way, I'm not a BuyVM customer and never have been.

Not a customer, never have been, and when I post pony videos they're always from that other pony loving host

  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....

If you thought Francisco's responses were rude, I'm assuming you never met Gordon. :P

There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones

Those 10 things alone are relatively minor issues compared to actual major problems you'll encounter at many hosts (starting with hosts who don't monitor their systems, hosts who can take days to do a hardware replacement, kiddie hosts who rummage through their customers files, hosts who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to security, etc).

 

No I meant FTP

Hsin, looking at this crap, it appears:

1) You got your VPS setup within the 3 hours stated.  Then you wanted a bunch of additional services that weren't part of the deal, and went berserk when that wasn't completed instantly.

2) There was a mixup over the refund policy and Fran told you to take it up with Aldyric so Aldyric could do what he told you.  No you should not expect the owner to micromanage the billing guy.  If Aldyric refused a refund despite terms already stated, you could conceivably appeal to Fran about it afterwards, but Fran is not the first person to approach.

3) In fact you did get the refund as stated, so you have no grounds for complaints in that department.  Linuxbug's post about this is well taken.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

I've had my own issues with BuyVM (see my post history) but it looks to me like they did fine here and you sound pretty bad.

I hope the mods close the thread pretty soon, since it looks like just about everyone except for you has reached the same conclusion.

1. I wanted services that fell under what they agreed to manage...I could see if I asked for something that Buyvm strictly said they didn't support. I expect for them to know how to handle things adequately they agree to support without needing to pass it off and further delay, imo.

2. You call it a mix-up....I call it lying. I never asked Francisco to micromanage the billing guy...However, let's use a slightly different example. Let's say I am unhappy at a store....I am talking to the manager/store owner and making a complaint.

Why doesn't the store owner know that stores return/refund policy and is quoting me something incorrectly and basically calling me a liar when I tell him what I was told? Then why does the store owner then say "Well I guess that's what it is..." as if he is unsure.

You are the store owner....you should know the policy? Furthermore, you are the store owner...if I am dealing with you presently. Don't pass me off to the cashier, who while capable of handling the refund, isn't who I was dealing with.

3. The refund is not apart of this complaint. So what are you talking about?

4. Funny, I've been with several companies before Buyvm and presently after Buyvm, for roughly the same price.....Had no issues with them on the level of this.

It seems you and others are missing the overall point. The main issue is not how long it took...it's the fact that so many things could have been handled better and prevented had the communication been better and then when the customer(me) voiced a complaint about issues the company either lied flat out and double-talked or acted clueless. Furthermore, the company then goes on to tell others more lies about things garnering sympathy more support.

Not professional at all and I will be making sure this is known on most hosting sites I frequent.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

There's a lot of people that we invest a lot of time into that pay us very little. This is our work and if we're sitting on our thumbs spinning around during business hours, that's not helping anyone. We have no problem doing fully custom installs (i've done anycast setups w/ full keepalive and the works for people paying us < $10/month). There's a reason i've said "We're the host your host goes to for support" - It's cocky but true more than once. We enjoy helping, debugging, etc.

But yes, most of the big managed VPS companies out there are your standard VPS + cPanel + support for cPanel only. Anything custom past that gets billed as admin time at $XXX/hour.

Francisco

I am curious about these 'big companies' because I have been with them and I am with someone now, larger than buyvm, and I have yet to be billed anyting for admin time.

I think the only time that came up was with A Small Orange and litespeed...since they didn't actively support litespeed, they were going to charge me admin  time for an installation.

So Most is a blanket statement.....Many do charge admin fees but there are also many well-known(and far more professional hosts) that are capable of providing excellent service beyond simple VPS/Cpanel  support.....

Let me stop beating around the bush and get right to the point, instead of trying to lead you to your own epiphany.  When you take advantage of a money back situation like you did, this means you are parting ways amicably, so I ask you, if you parted amicably taking their money and time and not feeling bad about it, then why did you come here and then attack them? To take up more of their time and money?  This is the only real reason to open a thread like this.  Sure you have your opinions, but since you made the decision to take back you money and move on, that is what you should have done, not be disingenuous and go straight to the forums and bash them.  Your an asshole, you basically broke the unwritten rule for refunds... why do you think they even offer them?  It is a face saving way to part amicably.  You turned it into, "HAHA I paid nothing and then shit on you and made you have to spend more time replying to thread on forums cause I am a total fuckwit", not, "Ohh I am sorry things couldn't work out, I will move on and find someone who I can work better with".

>I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

And again, the only point to this sentence is a dig at the people who already spent 3+ hours of their time freely helping you and then they even refunded you.  Why can you not understand why this makes you look like a piece of dirt?

my 2 cents.

Cheers!

What 'unwritten' rule for a refund?

So let me get this straight because I got the refund I shouldn't have expressed my complaints and concerns here because they gave me a refund for what I deemed to be piss poor service?

In regards to the billing issue.  The way BuyVM is structured, each person has their own "Domain".  While Fran is the "owner" he trusts and respects Aldryic's domain which is Billing.  Do you know why?  Because taxes, paperwork, everything needs to be taken care of properly.  While the owner could obviously simply click the button, the resulting uneveness in their finances could potentially be a problem... which is why even if you're the owner, you leave it to the billing department.   Yes BuyVM is a small team, but it's a small team of extremely talented people who are good at what they do.  Each person has their "part" of the company that they run and manage.  Asking the "owner" to taking care of billing issues is not what they do.  You ask a major company's owner to refund you, they'll probably redirect you to their billing department.  While I totally understand your perspective, you're not considering the fact that bureaucracy, while many people's enemies, are there for a reason.  

 

Hi!  Sorry to just barge in here about this (and keep this thread alive), but since this is a public forum, I wanted to put my own opinion about this.  Now you may call me a BuyVM shill or other names simply because I'm disagreeing with you, but hey whatever.  Not my problem if I'm another satisfied customer of BuyVM.  

Now I'm going to be fairly blunt with you about many of these things.  Not to offend you or anything but mostly because it's 5 AM right now and I was originally planning on going to bed... but then realized I totally missed this thread and had to read through it all (also was re-watching the earlier episodes of Mr. Robot because Episode 8 of the show totally blew my mind and so many references and scenes earlier in the TV series now make so much more sense... You should totally watch it, it's definitely something I'd recommend anyone who loves tech to watch). 

 

I think you have a problem.  Your problem can easily summed up to "The customer is always right."  From the looks of it, you're expecting them to heed to every demand you've requested.  Now customer satisfaction is important to everyone, I mean hell that's why people in the service industry (such as web hosting) stay in business.  But sometimes, the customer's expectations are much higher than what the store can provide.  Now I totally get it, you're thinking you're being reasonable here, but from the information presented and from what I've read on here (including your own posts and screenshots), you're kind of the person in the wrong.  Now I won't deny that this entire situation could have been handled much better from both sides, but the net total is that you're kind of being the dick.  You have superiority problem.  Simply because you're paying them, they should be subject to your every whim.  The way BuyVM's culture is, that attitude will get you immediately kicked off their network and their services.  Surprisingly (or I guess more unsurprisingly), BuyVM staff is very well respected in the web hosting industry, mostly because of their "office culture" and really their no bullshit policies.  That... and they have a horizontal structure.  That's why the "owner" won't touch billing, because in a horizontal structure the term owner means jack squat.  

Now why is this important to know on the client side?  Why should the client have to consider this?  Since you agreed to their policies while you're using their hosting, yeah you wait for the "refund" from the designated billing department person.  This is just how businesses are run.  Your restaurant example?  Well it's the job of that manager to make sure you're happy.  For BuyVM its that but not at the level of "oh hey lets jump around for a couple dollars".   

Since its getting pretty late and my brain is already mushy.  I'll sum it up with a single image. 

40Idny0.png

Chill out.  It's all good.  This thread was not necessary since you already got your refund.  This is like stabbing someone and then twisting the knife.  It's a dick thing to do.  If you stabbed someone just leave it in for them to deal with it.  

*The statement here is of my own and not as an admin or a staff of vpsB.  You can do your best to work with every single person but sometimes it just never works out*  

 

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This shows that BuyVM are even better. Man guiding a customer on how to use FTP? WTF is 2015 and you dont know how to use FTP? Do you even Internet bro?

 

WTF this is 2015 and someone is showing someone else how to use an insecure transfer protocol like FTP???? 

I would have immediately refunded after the FTP stuff. 

I would immediately demand a refund if a host  told me to use FTP (instead of SFTP or SCP).

I'm assuming the OP meant SFTP (or FTP/S) not FTP

By the way, I'm not a BuyVM customer and never have been.

Not a customer, never have been, and when I post pony videos they're always from that other pony loving host

  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....

If you thought Francisco's responses were rude, I'm assuming you never met Gordon. :P

There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones

Those 10 things alone are relatively minor issues compared to actual major problems you'll encounter at many hosts (starting with hosts who don't monitor their systems, hosts who can take days to do a hardware replacement, kiddie hosts who rummage through their customers files, hosts who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to security, etc).

 

No I meant FTP

Hsin, looking at this crap, it appears:

1) You got your VPS setup within the 3 hours stated.  Then you wanted a bunch of additional services that weren't part of the deal, and went berserk when that wasn't completed instantly.

2) There was a mixup over the refund policy and Fran told you to take it up with Aldyric so Aldyric could do what he told you.  No you should not expect the owner to micromanage the billing guy.  If Aldyric refused a refund despite terms already stated, you could conceivably appeal to Fran about it afterwards, but Fran is not the first person to approach.

3) In fact you did get the refund as stated, so you have no grounds for complaints in that department.  Linuxbug's post about this is well taken.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

I've had my own issues with BuyVM (see my post history) but it looks to me like they did fine here and you sound pretty bad.

I hope the mods close the thread pretty soon, since it looks like just about everyone except for you has reached the same conclusion.

1. I wanted services that fell under what they agreed to manage...I could see if I asked for something that Buyvm strictly said they didn't support. I expect for them to know how to handle things adequately they agree to support without needing to pass it off and further delay, imo.

2. You call it a mix-up....I call it lying. I never asked Francisco to micromanage the billing guy...However, let's use a slightly different example. Let's say I am unhappy at a store....I am talking to the manager/store owner and making a complaint.

Why doesn't the store owner know that stores return/refund policy and is quoting me something incorrectly and basically calling me a liar when I tell him what I was told? Then why does the store owner then say "Well I guess that's what it is..." as if he is unsure.

You are the store owner....you should know the policy? Furthermore, you are the store owner...if I am dealing with you presently. Don't pass me off to the cashier, who while capable of handling the refund, isn't who I was dealing with.

3. The refund is not apart of this complaint. So what are you talking about?

4. Funny, I've been with several companies before Buyvm and presently after Buyvm, for roughly the same price.....Had no issues with them on the level of this.

It seems you and others are missing the overall point. The main issue is not how long it took...it's the fact that so many things could have been handled better and prevented had the communication been better and then when the customer(me) voiced a complaint about issues the company either lied flat out and double-talked or acted clueless. Furthermore, the company then goes on to tell others more lies about things garnering sympathy more support.

Not professional at all and I will be making sure this is known on most hosting sites I frequent.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

There's a lot of people that we invest a lot of time into that pay us very little. This is our work and if we're sitting on our thumbs spinning around during business hours, that's not helping anyone. We have no problem doing fully custom installs (i've done anycast setups w/ full keepalive and the works for people paying us < $10/month). There's a reason i've said "We're the host your host goes to for support" - It's cocky but true more than once. We enjoy helping, debugging, etc.

But yes, most of the big managed VPS companies out there are your standard VPS + cPanel + support for cPanel only. Anything custom past that gets billed as admin time at $XXX/hour.

Francisco

I am curious about these 'big companies' because I have been with them and I am with someone now, larger than buyvm, and I have yet to be billed anyting for admin time.

I think the only time that came up was with A Small Orange and litespeed...since they didn't actively support litespeed, they were going to charge me admin  time for an installation.

So Most is a blanket statement.....Many do charge admin fees but there are also many well-known(and far more professional hosts) that are capable of providing excellent service beyond simple VPS/Cpanel  support.....

Let me stop beating around the bush and get right to the point, instead of trying to lead you to your own epiphany.  When you take advantage of a money back situation like you did, this means you are parting ways amicably, so I ask you, if you parted amicably taking their money and time and not feeling bad about it, then why did you come here and then attack them? To take up more of their time and money?  This is the only real reason to open a thread like this.  Sure you have your opinions, but since you made the decision to take back you money and move on, that is what you should have done, not be disingenuous and go straight to the forums and bash them.  Your an asshole, you basically broke the unwritten rule for refunds... why do you think they even offer them?  It is a face saving way to part amicably.  You turned it into, "HAHA I paid nothing and then shit on you and made you have to spend more time replying to thread on forums cause I am a total fuckwit", not, "Ohh I am sorry things couldn't work out, I will move on and find someone who I can work better with".

>I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

And again, the only point to this sentence is a dig at the people who already spent 3+ hours of their time freely helping you and then they even refunded you.  Why can you not understand why this makes you look like a piece of dirt?

my 2 cents.

Cheers!

What 'unwritten' rule for a refund?

So let me get this straight because I got the refund I shouldn't have expressed my complaints and concerns here because they gave me a refund for what I deemed to be piss poor service?

In regards to the billing issue.  The way BuyVM is structured, each person has their own "Domain".  While Fran is the "owner" he trusts and respects Aldryic's domain which is Billing.  Do you know why?  Because taxes, paperwork, everything needs to be taken care of properly.  While the owner could obviously simply click the button, the resulting uneveness in their finances could potentially be a problem... which is why even if you're the owner, you leave it to the billing department.   Yes BuyVM is a small team, but it's a small team of extremely talented people who are good at what they do.  Each person has their "part" of the company that they run and manage.  Asking the "owner" to taking care of billing issues is not what they do.  You ask a major company's owner to refund you, they'll probably redirect you to their billing department.  While I totally understand your perspective, you're not considering the fact that bureaucracy, while many people's enemies, are there for a reason.  

 

Hi!  Sorry to just barge in here about this (and keep this thread alive), but since this is a public forum, I wanted to put my own opinion about this.  Now you may call me a BuyVM shill or other names simply because I'm disagreeing with you, but hey whatever.  Not my problem if I'm another satisfied customer of BuyVM.  

Now I'm going to be fairly blunt with you about many of these things.  Not to offend you or anything but mostly because it's 5 AM right now and I was originally planning on going to bed... but then realized I totally missed this thread and had to read through it all (also was re-watching the earlier episodes of Mr. Robot because Episode 8 of the show totally blew my mind and so many references and scenes earlier in the TV series now make so much more sense... You should totally watch it, it's definitely something I'd recommend anyone who loves tech to watch). 

 

I think you have a problem.  Your problem can easily summed up to "The customer is always right."  From the looks of it, you're expecting them to heed to every demand you've requested.  Now customer satisfaction is important to everyone, I mean hell that's why people in the service industry (such as web hosting) stay in business.  But sometimes, the customer's expectations are much higher than what the store can provide.  Now I totally get it, you're thinking you're being reasonable here, but from the information presented and from what I've read on here (including your own posts and screenshots), you're kind of the person in the wrong.  Now I won't deny that this entire situation could have been handled much better from both sides, but the net total is that you're kind of being the dick.  You have superiority problem.  Simply because you're paying them, they should be subject to your every whim.  The way BuyVM's culture is, that attitude will get you immediately kicked off their network and their services.  Surprisingly (or I guess more unsurprisingly), BuyVM staff is very well respected in the web hosting industry, mostly because of their "office culture" and really their no bullshit policies.  That... and they have a horizontal structure.  That's why the "owner" won't touch billing, because in a horizontal structure the term owner means jack squat.  

Now why is this important to know on the client side?  Why should the client have to consider this?  Since you agreed to their policies while you're using their hosting, yeah you wait for the "refund" from the designated billing department person.  This is just how businesses are run.  Your restaurant example?  Well it's the job of that manager to make sure you're happy.  For BuyVM its that but not at the level of "oh hey lets jump around for a couple dollars".   

Since its getting pretty late and my brain is already mushy.  I'll sum it up with a single image. 

40Idny0.png

Chill out.  It's all good.  This thread was not necessary since you already got your refund.  This is like stabbing someone and then twisting the knife.  It's a dick thing to do.  If you stabbed someone just leave it in for them to deal with it.  

*The statement here is of my own and not as an admin or a staff of vpsB.  You can do your best to work with every single person but sometimes it just never works out*  

 

I am curious...based on Buyvm's claims or anyone else who keeps saying my expectations (Of wanting good communication), what my demands and expectations were?

Better yet, you seem to apparently know me better than myself. Wow, how shocking. /surprisingly

1. I don't think the customer is always right.....because they are not and the customer this time wasn't right, either, which I not only called myself out on in my original post but reiterated several times throughout this thread.

But then you get you and the other...lovely people(I am being nice) then who try to tell me that I am too demanding and that I expect them to bend over backwards.

2. I said multiple times, that the issue I found was the response/attitude of Buyvm when I tried to cancel not to mention the flat out lies from the company(Which nobody has still commented on. Casually always overlooked :P ) and exaggerations.

Somehow(Based on their knowledge), I was complaining about service for $23 a month despite several times saying it was not that actual price...finally some idiots got it together to start using the same price.

Then, I turn around am mad because I didn't get the cpanel license back, based on the logic in this thread...

Oh and let's forget the fact that I was not familiar with Filezilla/FTP apparently and somehow that came Buyvm going out of their way to teach me something(When in reality he simply copy and pasted what I need to put in and told me where) that they themselves wanted me to use.

 

So again I ask....what exactly are my expectations that were too high?

I am all for a company being laid back and not your typical type of host who treats their customers as simply a means to make cash. I can appreciate that BuyVm is a type of company who is not like your typical host. But I do still expect some level of decorum and respect and professionalism because at no point and time did I catch an attitude or disrespect them UNTIL one was caught with me. I never once demanded anything.
 

A host that can flat out lie and twist the story around(Again notice how not once have they disputed said claims I made) and then lie to their other customers is not a reputable host. A host that actually  would come out their mouth to imply I come back and ask for forgiveness and apologize to them for complaining because they assumed I was still running around looking for hosting(and discussing the situation further with other customers) is not a professional host. But seeing some of the people they host, then again I am not too surprised ;)

 

 

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I see no legitimate lies on the company's part. I think they've provided pretty compelling and factual evidence that, as I said before, really does match up with what you've said throughout the thread (not so much in your first post... hmm...) - though they appear to have given more details, and I notice a trend of you getting more defensive every time they post. How that implies lying of any sort is beyond me - seems to me you never gave the whole story in the first place.

Edited by OSTKCabal

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This shows that BuyVM are even better. Man guiding a customer on how to use FTP? WTF is 2015 and you dont know how to use FTP? Do you even Internet bro?

 

WTF this is 2015 and someone is showing someone else how to use an insecure transfer protocol like FTP???? 

I would have immediately refunded after the FTP stuff. 

I would immediately demand a refund if a host  told me to use FTP (instead of SFTP or SCP).

I'm assuming the OP meant SFTP (or FTP/S) not FTP

By the way, I'm not a BuyVM customer and never have been.

Not a customer, never have been, and when I post pony videos they're always from that other pony loving host

  1. Why is it that when a customer, who wasn't rude or disrespectful to you at all okay for the owner of the company to catch an attitude? Because he was having a bad day....

If you thought Francisco's responses were rude, I'm assuming you never met Gordon. :P

There are other questions to ask but those 10 things alone are the biggest ones

Those 10 things alone are relatively minor issues compared to actual major problems you'll encounter at many hosts (starting with hosts who don't monitor their systems, hosts who can take days to do a hardware replacement, kiddie hosts who rummage through their customers files, hosts who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to security, etc).

 

No I meant FTP

Hsin, looking at this crap, it appears:

1) You got your VPS setup within the 3 hours stated.  Then you wanted a bunch of additional services that weren't part of the deal, and went berserk when that wasn't completed instantly.

2) There was a mixup over the refund policy and Fran told you to take it up with Aldyric so Aldyric could do what he told you.  No you should not expect the owner to micromanage the billing guy.  If Aldyric refused a refund despite terms already stated, you could conceivably appeal to Fran about it afterwards, but Fran is not the first person to approach.

3) In fact you did get the refund as stated, so you have no grounds for complaints in that department.  Linuxbug's post about this is well taken.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

I've had my own issues with BuyVM (see my post history) but it looks to me like they did fine here and you sound pretty bad.

I hope the mods close the thread pretty soon, since it looks like just about everyone except for you has reached the same conclusion.

1. I wanted services that fell under what they agreed to manage...I could see if I asked for something that Buyvm strictly said they didn't support. I expect for them to know how to handle things adequately they agree to support without needing to pass it off and further delay, imo.

2. You call it a mix-up....I call it lying. I never asked Francisco to micromanage the billing guy...However, let's use a slightly different example. Let's say I am unhappy at a store....I am talking to the manager/store owner and making a complaint.

Why doesn't the store owner know that stores return/refund policy and is quoting me something incorrectly and basically calling me a liar when I tell him what I was told? Then why does the store owner then say "Well I guess that's what it is..." as if he is unsure.

You are the store owner....you should know the policy? Furthermore, you are the store owner...if I am dealing with you presently. Don't pass me off to the cashier, who while capable of handling the refund, isn't who I was dealing with.

3. The refund is not apart of this complaint. So what are you talking about?

4. Funny, I've been with several companies before Buyvm and presently after Buyvm, for roughly the same price.....Had no issues with them on the level of this.

It seems you and others are missing the overall point. The main issue is not how long it took...it's the fact that so many things could have been handled better and prevented had the communication been better and then when the customer(me) voiced a complaint about issues the company either lied flat out and double-talked or acted clueless. Furthermore, the company then goes on to tell others more lies about things garnering sympathy more support.

Not professional at all and I will be making sure this is known on most hosting sites I frequent.

4) Regarding the VPS itself, your expectations were unrealistic.  Managed VPS typically means there are a few stock configurations that they'll install for you and they'll apply patches when necessary, and handle reasonable support requests with maybe 1 day turnaround.  If you want real-time consultancy on demand, that runs $XXX per HOUR (three X's = triple digits) not $40/month.  They went way beyond the call of duty for this type of product.

There's a lot of people that we invest a lot of time into that pay us very little. This is our work and if we're sitting on our thumbs spinning around during business hours, that's not helping anyone. We have no problem doing fully custom installs (i've done anycast setups w/ full keepalive and the works for people paying us < $10/month). There's a reason i've said "We're the host your host goes to for support" - It's cocky but true more than once. We enjoy helping, debugging, etc.

But yes, most of the big managed VPS companies out there are your standard VPS + cPanel + support for cPanel only. Anything custom past that gets billed as admin time at $XXX/hour.

Francisco

I am curious about these 'big companies' because I have been with them and I am with someone now, larger than buyvm, and I have yet to be billed anyting for admin time.

I think the only time that came up was with A Small Orange and litespeed...since they didn't actively support litespeed, they were going to charge me admin  time for an installation.

So Most is a blanket statement.....Many do charge admin fees but there are also many well-known(and far more professional hosts) that are capable of providing excellent service beyond simple VPS/Cpanel  support.....

Let me stop beating around the bush and get right to the point, instead of trying to lead you to your own epiphany.  When you take advantage of a money back situation like you did, this means you are parting ways amicably, so I ask you, if you parted amicably taking their money and time and not feeling bad about it, then why did you come here and then attack them? To take up more of their time and money?  This is the only real reason to open a thread like this.  Sure you have your opinions, but since you made the decision to take back you money and move on, that is what you should have done, not be disingenuous and go straight to the forums and bash them.  Your an asshole, you basically broke the unwritten rule for refunds... why do you think they even offer them?  It is a face saving way to part amicably.  You turned it into, "HAHA I paid nothing and then shit on you and made you have to spend more time replying to thread on forums cause I am a total fuckwit", not, "Ohh I am sorry things couldn't work out, I will move on and find someone who I can work better with".

>I couldn't care less about burning bridges with Buyvm and in most cases no one here because there were no bridges in place in the first place.

And again, the only point to this sentence is a dig at the people who already spent 3+ hours of their time freely helping you and then they even refunded you.  Why can you not understand why this makes you look like a piece of dirt?

my 2 cents.

Cheers!

What 'unwritten' rule for a refund?

So let me get this straight because I got the refund I shouldn't have expressed my complaints and concerns here because they gave me a refund for what I deemed to be piss poor service?

In regards to the billing issue.  The way BuyVM is structured, each person has their own "Domain".  While Fran is the "owner" he trusts and respects Aldryic's domain which is Billing.  Do you know why?  Because taxes, paperwork, everything needs to be taken care of properly.  While the owner could obviously simply click the button, the resulting uneveness in their finances could potentially be a problem... which is why even if you're the owner, you leave it to the billing department.   Yes BuyVM is a small team, but it's a small team of extremely talented people who are good at what they do.  Each person has their "part" of the company that they run and manage.  Asking the "owner" to taking care of billing issues is not what they do.  You ask a major company's owner to refund you, they'll probably redirect you to their billing department.  While I totally understand your perspective, you're not considering the fact that bureaucracy, while many people's enemies, are there for a reason.  

 

Hi!  Sorry to just barge in here about this (and keep this thread alive), but since this is a public forum, I wanted to put my own opinion about this.  Now you may call me a BuyVM shill or other names simply because I'm disagreeing with you, but hey whatever.  Not my problem if I'm another satisfied customer of BuyVM.  

Now I'm going to be fairly blunt with you about many of these things.  Not to offend you or anything but mostly because it's 5 AM right now and I was originally planning on going to bed... but then realized I totally missed this thread and had to read through it all (also was re-watching the earlier episodes of Mr. Robot because Episode 8 of the show totally blew my mind and so many references and scenes earlier in the TV series now make so much more sense... You should totally watch it, it's definitely something I'd recommend anyone who loves tech to watch). 

 

I think you have a problem.  Your problem can easily summed up to "The customer is always right."  From the looks of it, you're expecting them to heed to every demand you've requested.  Now customer satisfaction is important to everyone, I mean hell that's why people in the service industry (such as web hosting) stay in business.  But sometimes, the customer's expectations are much higher than what the store can provide.  Now I totally get it, you're thinking you're being reasonable here, but from the information presented and from what I've read on here (including your own posts and screenshots), you're kind of the person in the wrong.  Now I won't deny that this entire situation could have been handled much better from both sides, but the net total is that you're kind of being the dick.  You have superiority problem.  Simply because you're paying them, they should be subject to your every whim.  The way BuyVM's culture is, that attitude will get you immediately kicked off their network and their services.  Surprisingly (or I guess more unsurprisingly), BuyVM staff is very well respected in the web hosting industry, mostly because of their "office culture" and really their no bullshit policies.  That... and they have a horizontal structure.  That's why the "owner" won't touch billing, because in a horizontal structure the term owner means jack squat.  

Now why is this important to know on the client side?  Why should the client have to consider this?  Since you agreed to their policies while you're using their hosting, yeah you wait for the "refund" from the designated billing department person.  This is just how businesses are run.  Your restaurant example?  Well it's the job of that manager to make sure you're happy.  For BuyVM its that but not at the level of "oh hey lets jump around for a couple dollars".   

Since its getting pretty late and my brain is already mushy.  I'll sum it up with a single image. 

40Idny0.png

Chill out.  It's all good.  This thread was not necessary since you already got your refund.  This is like stabbing someone and then twisting the knife.  It's a dick thing to do.  If you stabbed someone just leave it in for them to deal with it.  

*The statement here is of my own and not as an admin or a staff of vpsB.  You can do your best to work with every single person but sometimes it just never works out*  

 

I am curious...based on Buyvm's claims or anyone else who keeps saying my expectations (Of wanting good communication), what my demands and expectations were?

Better yet, you seem to apparently know me better than myself. Wow, how shocking. /surprisingly

1. I don't think the customer is always right.....because they are not and the customer this time wasn't right, either, which I not only called myself out on in my original post but reiterated several times throughout this thread.

But then you get you and the other...lovely people(I am being nice) then who try to tell me that I am too demanding and that I expect them to bend over backwards.

2. I said multiple times, that the issue I found was the response/attitude of Buyvm when I tried to cancel not to mention the flat out lies from the company(Which nobody has still commented on. Casually always overlooked :P ) and exaggerations.

Somehow(Based on their knowledge), I was complaining about service for $23 a month despite several times saying it was not that actual price...finally some idiots got it together to start using the same price.

Then, I turn around am mad because I didn't get the cpanel license back, based on the logic in this thread...

Oh and let's forget the fact that I was not familiar with Filezilla/FTP apparently and somehow that came Buyvm going out of their way to teach me something(When in reality he simply copy and pasted what I need to put in and told me where) that they themselves wanted me to use.

 

So again I ask....what exactly are my expectations that were too high?

I am all for a company being laid back and not your typical type of host who treats their customers as simply a means to make cash. I can appreciate that BuyVm is a type of company who is not like your typical host. But I do still expect some level of decorum and respect and professionalism because at no point and time did I catch an attitude or disrespect them UNTIL one was caught with me. I never once demanded anything.
 

A host that can flat out lie and twist the story around(Again notice how not once have they disputed said claims I made) and then lie to their other customers is not a reputable host. A host that actually  would come out their mouth to imply I come back and ask for forgiveness and apologize to them for complaining because they assumed I was still running around looking for hosting(and discussing the situation further with other customers) is not a professional host. But seeing some of the people they host, then again I am not too surprised ;)

 

 

Lets see how far down this rabbit hole goes! 

1. I get it you called yourself out on you being incorrect several times.  Even though you recognize it and addressed it does not dismiss it from being part of the problem that was created.  

2. Ok so the end argument, putting it in a single sentence instead of a 3 page long thread, was that you have a problem with cancelling and requesting a refund.  You have a problem with their response/attitude (and the reason we haven't addressed your claim that they've been "lying" is because from the looks of it and everything that was presented, no they did not "lie".  This is where the entire "you're expecting too much" is coming from because from your perspective, a promise was made and that promise is what makes or breaks your contract, where in the actual legal side and the hard real truth is that the only important part was that your service was rendered and your cPanel server was configured).  Realize I never even touched the pricing because I know you paid 23 dollars but the actual invoice is 40 dollars and it was prorated for the remaining time.  I think you're molding my arguments with other people's. Nor did I bring up the fact that you weren't familiar with Filezilla because this is irrelevant (at this point anyways).  

I'll reiterate what I'm saying.  I'm not saying you're wrong (as you can tell from the image).  I'm not saying they're wrong.  What I'm saying is that in the end, you're being a giant douche.  

You contacted them about needing service.  They worked with you on it.

You requested the server and cPanel and configuration of lightspeed.  They did it for you.  

You paid 23 dollars on the invoice, which covered for the prorated month (actual invoice is 40/month).  Cool.  

Due to an issue in miscommunication, you felt they have lied and they felt they were being blamed for something that wasn't an issue to begin with.

Instead of fixing this issue, you continued to escalate the situation (by losing your cool even when they were explaining to you their side of the story).  

You then requested a refund on your invoice.  Originally, because they spent so much of their own personal time and resources into setting up the server for you (because you know... people don't setup servers and work for free), they denied it.  But because you were persistent, they provided a refund.  

Ok cool so everything's settled.

But wait there's more!

You then open this thread and spill your side of the beans.  They also get involved and spill their side of the story.  A giant penis sword fight happens where most of the people who are reading this agree that you're being the unreasonable person and you're upset because no-one's supporting you (I know you "didn't expect anyone to support you on such a biased forum" or something, but even from a neutral point (as several people here have expressed they're from), you're coming off as the dick).  

Come on dude.  Take a step back, take a deep breath, and re-read everything forgetting the fact that you're involved in this.  

Your "they're a liar" line is honestly very simply put to there was a miscommunication and you kinda went overboard with it.  The reason why I bring up professionalism is because this happens regularly in business no matter what size.  That's why so many organizations invest in internal project management software or use software from Atlassian, because both sides may think 'yeah I understand' but might not actually really understand the end goal.  The other day, the hard drive on my server died.  I bought two hard drives and sent it to the datacenter to replace the single hard drive that died (and upgrade my server).  I communicated with the individual I'm colocating with, and in turn that individual communicated with the DC Techs.  Now the DC techs kinda screwed up and at first put only one new hard drive in and kept the old broken one in.  I had to contact them again and get it fixed with the proper hard drive configuration.  There's a bit more to the story than this (since it gets a bit more complicated) but in the end I'm not the person saying "i'm going to move out of here and I demand you pay me back for this month.".  Because part of life and business is the fact that these miscommunications happen.  Its part of what makes everyone human.  

It wasn't good for you coming out of the gate and therefore you immediately pull out.  Ok fair enough... a bit of a dick move after they spent so much time configuring everything for you but hey I understand.  You get a refund and then post about it on the forum?  Yeah you just crossed the line with your dick move.  

 

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There is no reason for a professional company to catch an attitude, blame the customer or be condescending.

[...]

I enjoy the comments of Aldyric and Francisco on Vpsboard and other related sites. You don't see 'real' people with hosts...usually it is a façade and they are pretending to be perfect.

tl;dr but I thought of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO3_ITGxuQs

Possibly the most astonishingly long wall of text slap fight re: $23 that I have ever seen, lol. (could not make it through the first page).

@Hsin next time maybe try buying the cpanel license on your own? :)

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There is no reason for a professional company to catch an attitude, blame the customer or be condescending.

[...]

I enjoy the comments of Aldyric and Francisco on Vpsboard and other related sites. You don't see 'real' people with hosts...usually it is a façade and they are pretending to be perfect.

tl;dr but I thought of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO3_ITGxuQs

Possibly the most astonishingly long wall of text slap fight re: $23 that I have ever seen, lol. (could not make it through the first page).

@Hsin next time maybe try buying the cpanel license on your own? :)

And that's what happens when we don't read ;) As it wasn't about the $23 or the cpanel license I complained about but the lack of communication and the way the situation was handled ;)

Though it is quite funny that I posted this on several other sites and I was rightfully called out for losing my cool during the chat convo but when placed in environments where Buyvm doesn't have it's rabid fanboys and people actually do read, funny how things can be seen clearer than simply "Yeah mistakes were made on both sides but it's all the customers fault" which directly contradicts itself :P

But I digress and there really is no point in defending myself(not that I care to) or my stance on this any longer really :P At least not here. And I thought WHT was the circlejerk :P JK

Oh and I already pointed out several lies and changes in stories by buyvm as well as direct contradictory statement in the topic that were of course glossed over :P But that's fine as well. I do know, based on Francisco, should I need hosting in the future if I go back and apologize and suck em off metaphorically, they'll take me back in ha. Oh wait, Aldyric said they wouldn't. Gee, they really aren't on the same page are they.
 :P

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