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The 2016 (USA) Presidential Election Thread

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
As a non-US, I really liked Bernie Sanders. Does he really have a chance ? Btw, Hillary Clinton sounds like a republican

Interesting input as an outsider.


Sanders is an interesting character.  I like some of his stances. Others go a bit too far I think into entitlements (which I don't think the rich, the poor, the rural, the urban, the blue, the green, the corporations or anyone else should get).


Does Sanders have a chance?  I think so.  Remains to be seen in other races though.  They have him leading nationally in a popular vote of Democrats by 3-6 points currently.  That is within error margin though.


This Clinton sounds Republican is interesting.  What to you seems Republican?  Perhaps her foreign policy and heavy war sounding trumpet?
 

RosenHost

New Member
This Clinton sounds Republican is interesting.  What to you seems Republican?  Perhaps her foreign policy and heavy war sounding trumpet?

Exactly. You read my mind. She is also seems to be close to lobbies and Wall Street. I believe she could have an easier election adventure without the Bingazi incident and those e-mail drama.
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Exactly. You read my mind. She is also seems to be close to lobbies and Wall Street. I believe she could have an easier election adventure without the Bingazi incident and those e-mail drama.

She's a conflicted woman.  Most of it is theater to represent her financial interests.


Problem is these interests send our young off to die in 'conflicts'.  For what?  Special interests, not human rights abuse (about the only reason to be aiding and present abroad in active conflict).


Bengahzi stuff is atrocious.  Public needs more awareness about what happened.  It's very shameful incident.
 

Licensecart

Active Member
It really is going to be hard on the USA and the citizens :( really feel sorry for everyone including my American mates. 


If you get Trump then the USA is screwed. If he isn't you are most likely going to get Clinton and the USA would be even more screwed as she's corrupt. 
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
It really is going to be hard on the USA and the citizens :( really feel sorry for everyone including my American mates. 


If you get Trump then the USA is screwed. If he isn't you are most likely going to get Clinton and the USA would be even more screwed as she's corrupt. 

Trump in all fairness at least knows how to negotiate deals and is willing to.  We sorely need someone with business sense in office for at least a term.


We've had too many harda$$ politicians who play this ugly war hawk routine (Republicans are notorious for that, and Madam Clinton is doing her best imitation).  We've had too many politicians that promise hope and change just to get nothing done and have gridlock.  The US needs to start worrying about itself, its citizens, its infrastructure, etc. first and primarily.


I think jobs issue is a big one and lots of people can relate to it. Immigration is a big one too invaders illegally in the States causing hell in many places and other places see the worldly aspect and protectionism necessary to preserve jobs being shipped abroad as part of deals to exploit cheap labor abroad.  No joke, last 15+ years in the US have seen many people put out, wages collapse for many, uncertainty for too many. 


The guy (Trump) isn't perfect (who is?), but at least he understands business and hasn't been on taxpayer welfare as his career.  I am tired of lifelong politicians.  Bums need to get one term and then a real job.


I expect Tuesday to see him wipe Florida with Rubio's face and make it hell of a competitive race in Cruz's own adopted home state of Texas.   I am stock piling popcorn and beer for Tuesday night.
 

Licensecart

Active Member
Trump in all fairness at least knows how to negotiate deals and is willing to.  We sorely need someone with business sense in office for at least a term.


We've had too many harda$$ politicians who play this ugly war hawk routine (Republicans are notorious for that, and Madam Clinton is doing her best imitation).  We've had too many politicians that promise hope and change just to get nothing done and have gridlock.  The US needs to start worrying about itself, its citizens, its infrastructure, etc. first and primarily.


I think jobs issue is a big one and lots of people can relate to it. Immigration is a big one too invaders illegally in the States causing hell in many places and other places see the worldly aspect and protectionism necessary to preserve jobs being shipped abroad as part of deals to exploit cheap labor abroad.  No joke, last 15+ years in the US have seen many people put out, wages collapse for many, uncertainty for too many. 


The guy (Trump) isn't perfect (who is?), but at least he understands business and hasn't been on taxpayer welfare as his career.  I am tired of lifelong politicians.  Bums need to get one term and then a real job.


I expect Tuesday to see him wipe Florida with Rubio's face and make it hell of a competitive race in Cruz's own adopted home state of Texas.   I am stock piling popcorn and beer for Tuesday night.

The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.


Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.
 
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MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.


Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.

Trump doesn't hate all muslims, doesn't hate all Mexicans. That's a silly claim. :)


We have immigration laws in America that are not being enforced. I don't see the issue with enforcing the laws on the books and having a better screening process for those entering the country. It's no secret that our western way of life isn't compatible with extremist Islam, and if the inconvenience of being properly vetted saves even one American life I'd say it was worth it. Keep in mind that comments regarding Muslims came shortly after a Muslim extremist opened fire in California killing 14 people that he worked with, co-workers and friends. And of course the Paris massacre. Muslim extremism has no place in a civilised society.


I've not actually heard Trump say anything specifically that was racist. I've seen plenty of headlines from liberal rags stating he was racist, but when I read to learn more I realize they selectively chose a section of quote or speech.


And as it turns out, legal immigrants really seem to like him too. It appears they're fans of not allowing people enter the country undocumented and reaping the same benefits they worked hard to earn legally.


And here's the thing, everyone says, "Oh, but Trump hates immigrants. He hates them!"


False. His grandparents were immigrants who came to America legally, his wife is an immigrant, who came to America legally. He's hired many people who have immigrated to America legally (And some controversy over contractors who may have hired illegal immigrants as well), but he's certainly not anti-immigration.


Grandson of immigrants, married an immigrant, hired many women in top ranking executive and decision making positions in his companies before it was 'cool', daughter is married to an Orthodox Jew of which Trump is close to, has pretty strong support from African American republicans and some dems and as he said in a rally yesterday when some Black Lives Matter protectors got kicked out: "We have to love everybody. All lives matter. All lives matter"


I mean, I'll admit it. Trump wasn't my first choice. And of course I heard all the bad stuff about him at first too. He's racist. He's literally Hitler. Etc etc. But once I looked into it more I found that none of that was true, and his policies and stances were pretty solid.


Yanked this from reddit:


This is what Trump's platform is:


  • • Wants to audit the Federal Reserve.


    • Doesn't have any special interests groups funding him unlike the other candidates. Has called for all candidates to return the money they're getting back to Super PACs and to remove special interest groups from our election process.


    • HE IS NOT A RACIST. He acknowledges the danger of allowing mass refugees from places governed by fundamentalist terrorist groups, even if such acknowledgment is not politically correct. (ie: not letting Muslims in the country, not ever, but UNTIL THE VISA PROBLEM IS FIXED – he’s said this many times). He has also openly said many times that he loves all people “All Lives Matter”.


    • He has absolutely nothing against legal immigration, he's encouraged it many times. His grandparents are immigrants, his wife is an immigrant, several of his closest business partners in New York are immigrants. He is against uncontrolled, illegal immigration. He has won the latino vote by a landslide several times, including in Nevada, and has repeatedly stated that it’s NOT that he hates Mexico, or Hispanics (employs thousands of them), but that he hates what our government is allowing them to do – ie: flood across the border undocumented.


    • Diversity: he employed women in leadership roles before it was popular to do that. And he did it in the construction industry of all places.


    • Hugely successful businessman, knows how to manage money, how to invest for the future and an absolutely fantastic negotiator. He has spent FAR less (of his own money, with no special interests or donors) than any other candidate, and is far ahead.


    • Acknowledgement that political correctness is obnoxious.


    • Wants to hold Hillary Clinton accountable, and prosecute her – when no one else will (Obama administration protecting her)


    • No more nation building in the Middle East. He openly called the Iraq War a mistake even back when it wasn't cool to do so.


    • He wants lower and middle class tax cuts.


    • He is focused on American jobs (esp with Carrier and many others recently moving to Mexico)


    • He wants to reduce student loan debt. Is against the government charging interest on student loans: "That's probably one of the only things the government shouldn't make money off – I think it's terrible that one of the only profit centers we have is student loans." Openness to lowering student loan interest rates and making loan forgiveness programs.


    • Likes universal healthcare, will repeal the mandate (requiring health insurance and fining those who don’t get it), and is open to replacing America's broken system with something similar to Canada but better.


    • Moderate on social issues (e.g. affirmative action, women's health, gay rights)


    • Focus on broad-based American nationalism instead of narrow and divisive race and gender identity politics.


    • Wants to legalize marijuana


    • Desire to put America first in trade deals instead of pure Wall Street globalism that exploits third world workers abroad and destroys domestic jobs.


    • Realist based foreign policy. (e.g. deal with Putin if it is in our national interest to do so, even if he isn't a nice guy).


    • National pride. The man loves his country and thinks it is the best. Every country should have a leader like that.


    • Unlike other candidates, his economic plan actually makes sense. It would result in "an 11 percent higher GDP, a 29 percent larger capital stock, 6.5 percent higher wages, and 5.3 million more full-time equivalent jobs".


    • There are videos of him in 1991 talking about how to utilize the upper class to re-invest in America or face higher taxes . Not only is he very knowledgeable in economics and investment, but the tax structure he offers up back in 91' seems relevant even today to help alleviate some of the complaints we have about 1%'ers and wall street.


    • He's genuinely against TPP.

  • Strong stance on trade reform to make America benefit more from foreign trade

  • Strong second amendment stances



For decades he's expressed concern for America falling behind as a country and all the countries we do business with surpassing us. He does seem to genuinely care about America as evident of just listening to him speak in interviews in the 80's and 90's.


At this point he pretty much has the GOP nomination in the bag. Super Tuesday is tomorrow, he's expected to do very well in most states. And then on the democratic side you have Sanders and Clinton, both of which he should be able to easily beat. Sanders isn't doing very well yet and unless he picks up steam tomorrow then he's going to be too far behind in delegates that his generally lazy, young, supporter base will likely get discouraged. One thing I've found about Sanders supporters is that they seem to be mostly anti-establishment and a good deal will defect and jump to Trump if Clinton is the democratic nominee because they hate Clinton more than they hate Trump which is comical to me.


A Clinton or Sanders presidency is what really scares me.
 
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Licensecart

Active Member
He's playing with your mind haha even on CNN:

Trump has beat back criticism in recent weeks that he is bigoted against Muslims, even telling CNN on Saturday when asked whether Muslims pose a danger to the U.S. that he thinks Muslims "are great people."


"I love the Muslims. I think they're great people," Trump told CNN in September.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/



But it's your country and your voting for the future, so I'll shut up now :D but yeah we have Muslims in the UK, we've got them in our Parties, and not all muslims are terrorists, just like all Americans with guns aren't going to use them for murdering people like the Uber driver or other killings in the USA. But yeah if you have Trump... Good luck :D
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.


Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.

Trump isn't a hater.   His own companies are very diverse and he hires women and minorities at rates that exceed others and has for many decades.


Muslims is a blanket term and logically so.  We have these terrorists attacks and they aren't being perpetrated by white Protestants.  If they were, you'd hear regulating the flow of Protestants to the US.


I have a number of Muslim friends and they get this.  Most of them support Trump even.


I think the term racism has got way abused and watered down.  


The current racism banter about Trump seems to be hinged on a media created falsehood that a former KKK local leader in Louisiana endorsed Trump. The story was false and Trump disavowed multiple times.


Are there racists that just hate people because of skin tone or national origin?  Yes.  At this level of spotlight and when operating such big businesses though,  would be damn near impossible.  


War concerns though, I feel that sentiment.  Every administration here in the States during my life has had us in and put us in new undeclared wars - both Democrats and Republicans. I am pro military where it makes sense.  But I am 100% anti-interventionist.  No way my time and energy should be funding war machines and chipping up young soldiers lives to protect special interests all over the world.   My father did multiple tours in foreign theaters, so did my grandfather.  For what?  Ruined many lives and the world would have been better if we stayed at home and took care of our own country.


PS:  I like some of Sanders schtick too.  Lesser so.  I'd vote for him second to Trump.   Reason why?  Sanders has been in office for decades.  He gets nothing passed ever.  He's a well intentioned, but no results sort of guy living on our generosity.
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Also, I haven't liked Trump's likely limited knowledge and stance on the Apple vs. DOJ matter about breaking into phones and busting up crypto in essence.


That issue has me a bit sore.  However, I am not hearing anything logical or informed out of the candidates.  It's a nerd / fringe and complex issue...


With that one, I think they are all playing up to BOO factor of the electorate.
 

AuroraZero

Active Member
The thing I like about Trump is he has a backbone and is not afraid to tell people how it is whether they like it or not. He does not care if you like him or not, he will tell what he thinks about anything to your face. We need more of this in America. We spend way too much time trying to soften things for everyone. We are to busy being afraid of offending some faith, race, or creed, that the truth is often lost, and this has to stop. 
 

HN-Matt

New Member
Verified Provider
re: the recent phenomena where the media was comparing Trump to Hitler in direct proportion to rising levels of panic concerning his ongoing lead in the polls, it made me wonder, has Big Data gotten around to making a database of every single invocation of Godwin's Law in known history yet? Would probably be a pretty hilarious/horrifying read. Frankly, I can't imagine why the Internet should even exist if not for a giant accumulation of increasingly irrelevant Hitler analogies from all of the venerable pillars of thought in contemporary media. There could be an anonymization toggle to transform it into a timeless, undifferentiated mass and stuff. Heck, if anything needs increased redundancy without the added baggage of mere attribution, it is the persistence and intensification of Godwin's Law. The cloud should look no further for its next raison d’être.
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
re: the recent phenomena where the media was comparing Trump to Hitler in direct proportion to rising levels of panic concerning his ongoing lead in the polls, it made me wonder, has Big Data gotten around to making a database of every single invocation of Godwin's Law in known history yet? Would probably be a pretty hilarious/horrifying read. Frankly, I can't imagine why the Internet should even exist if not for a giant accumulation of increasingly irrelevant Hitler analogies from all of the venerable pillars of thought in contemporary media. There could be an anonymization toggle to transform it into a timeless, undifferentiated mass and stuff. Heck, if anything needs increased redundancy without the added baggage of mere attribution, it is the persistence and intensification of Godwin's Law. The cloud should look no further for its next raison d’être.

Any time this much hate gets shipped at anyone and in conjunction with Hitler, you know that person almost certainly has the establishment reeling.  The BOO! Hitler scare long wore off for me.  It's bandied about for everything.  It's like a 3-5 step debate escalation approach by morons to invoke the dreaded Hitler.


For all of Hitler's vileness, he is greatly overshadowed by the evilness of Mao.  Yet no popular society invocation of Mao in debate logic.

I'm too generally apolitical and not immersed enough in American politics to offer any serious opinions, but on the other hand I was somehow transfixed watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtMeOqXPDH4

Unlike most of America I actually own property in the 100 mile no man zone of the southern border.  I can tell you all about border situation.  It's a f!#king disaster.  Border Patrol is nowhere near the border, disarmed and even if they catch idiots illegal, little to nothing is done, often catch and release like some sport fishing.  Obama I had high hopes on getting the border together.  He did nothing.  Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.


I 100000000% support deporting illegals and tossing their a$$es in jail for breaking our laws. What happens to a nation when only some of the laws are enforced? It creates institutional unfairness.  Punish this problem group but not that one because it is nothing more than fashionable to do such.  Laws not enforced should be expired and withdrawn. 


I think we should empty our prisons by decriminalizing harmless self-harm crimes by US citizens like marijuana consumption and use the space to house the invaders (who aren't just Mexican).  Plenty of odd stories of illegals entering the US southern border with origin being Middle East.  Anyone can just walk in on the southern border, it is pedestrian to do so.  So easy, a five year old could do it in most of the border zone.  True that the northern border is the same, but where Canadians are entering illegally we don't have statistical representation of them raising hell here.  Yes someone from elsewhere could and certainly do enter the US illegally via Canada, but today that isn't a problem.  In the future, IF the southern border is secured, the northern border will be the route to take.


If I go illegally into Mexico it is no joke what happens.  

 Illegal entry into the country [Mexico] is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country...

source: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229641/how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens-michelle-malkin
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Meanwhile currently in Missouri, we have a foreign invader who is prior deported, botched handling or none by US officials.   Now this guy is a serial killer of 4-5.


http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/illegal-immigrant-accused-of-killing-5-taken-into-custody/


ICE, along with Border Patrol and other agencies need to do their jobs right.  They aren't because they are on orders to stand down.  If they did their jobs it would go a long way to righting things.
 

HN-Matt

New Member
Verified Provider
For all of Hitler's vileness, he is greatly overshadowed by the evilness of Mao.  Yet no popular society invocation of Mao in debate logic.

I think it's because American Exceptionalism likes to endlessly claim Moral Authority for winning WW2. They didn't fight a war of similar magnitude against Maoism so the 21st C talking heads have no motivation to create similar incoherent political analogies re: Mao.

It may also be because WW2 was the last war America helped to 'win' in a decisive or triumphalist sense. It's been a bit of a disaster since then, far as I can tell. Seems amusing that Reductio ad Hitlerum is being used against Trump, his slogan in mind, to the extent that America can only be perceived as 'great' in contrast to Hitler.
 

Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.

Pathetic.
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
I think it's because American Exceptionalism likes to endlessly claim Moral Authority for winning WW2. They didn't fight a war of similar magnitude against Maoism so the 21st C talking heads have no motivation to create similar incoherent political analogies re: Mao.

It may also be because WW2 was the last war America helped to 'win' in a decisive or triumphalist sense. It's been a bit of a disaster since then, far as I can tell. Seems amusing that Reductio ad Hitlerum is being used against Trump, his slogan in mind, to the extent that America can only be perceived as 'great' in contrast to Hitler.
 


Pathetic.

:) or maybe they fail to mention how the US enabled Mao.  Just like the Bush family enabled and bankrolled Hitler.  Just saying, remove US from things and history would be a lot different and a lot less dead people.  WW2 was indeed the last time the US appeared to come out on the winning side.  Been one embarrassment after another since then.  Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, Terror, etc.  It's all theater, but unfortunately our young (and usually poor) die from such.

Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.

And it's really true, people will say it sounds insane.  Really are no checkpoints in big areas at border and first checkpoint like 50-75 miles inland. 


Needless to say locals aren't real happy with the Border Patrol.  People stay civil, but Border Patrol is known to run around like the are the police force in the no man zone, bothering civilians and putting their noses where jurisdiction should have them off limits.
 

HN-Matt

New Member
Verified Provider
:) or maybe they fail to mention how the US enabled Mao.  Just like the Bush family enabled and bankrolled Hitler.  Just saying, remove US from things and history would be a lot different and a lot less dead people.  WW2 was indeed the last time the US appeared to come out on the winning side.  Been one embarrassment after another since then.  Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, Terror, etc.  It's all theater, but unfortunately our young (and usually poor) die from such.

Maybe they're all just accidental Artaudians at heart, unconsciously paying homage to his Theatre of Cruelty.
 

Really are no checkpoints in big areas at border and first checkpoint like 50-75 miles inland.

Really? I heard it was 105-186.283.
 
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