Tips for an Upcoming Provider

tchen · Mar 28, 2014

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

As just an 'added' feature - no. I find marketing bullet-point DDoS protection worthless as it can't seriously tank anything. There's really only two providers so far that I'd trust to at least tank a marginally small DDoS.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

Don't really care, but if I had to choose, Xen. =) But most of my larger machines are OVZ when I can get away with it.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

Doesn't matter since it comes down to how you load and monitor the node. How good of a match is the hardware to the layout? Hardware Jones'ing is actually a turnoff for me. As long as the hardware is not EOL, who cares.

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

No. What I do look for is whether you know the hardware you're on, which is conveyed a bit by how homogeneous your node layout is. Some yahoo buying and shipping the newegg special of the month will rank far lower than a shop that leases twenty nodes at a time.

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

I really should not HAVE to file hardware node issues. On an unmanaged server, it's a fail when I have to do that since that's the only thing I'm asking of you. And since it's the only issue that needs immediate attention, 24/7/365 support is overkill. Monitor well and keep an active twitter account - your job is to keep the nodes running, not answer tickets.

Kenshin · Mar 28, 2014

One advice coming from someone in the hosting business for 15 years and dabbled in LE sector for 2 years. The people who pay you the least, expect the most service/support. Charge reasonable prices for your service and keeping it stable/reliable will get you more positive feedback over the long run and much less support work, which translates to less costs and more profit.

OSTKCabal · Apr 1, 2014

Hey everyone,

Thanks again for your input. We're currently arriving at the point at which we can begin to release some more information about our services and plans.

Here's the basics of the hardware we will be running for our E3 VPS services:

Supermicro 1U Chassis (A+B Redundant Power)
Intel Xeon E3-1270V3 Quad-Core 3.50GHz + HT
4x 512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSDs in RAID-10 (E3 SSD VPS)
OR
4x 2TB 7.2k Western Digital RE4 HDDs in RAID-10 (E3 HDD VPS)
LSI MegaRAID 9271-4i w/ BBU

I welcome any input on this (simplified) configuration. You can rest assured that your VPS resides on powerful and undersold hardware, as that's the only way I am interested in doing business. I desire to run a service that I myself would be proud to use, trust, and recommend to my friends.

Furthermore, you can be sure that we are charging sustainable prices. All the while, we are interested in offering fair specifications to our clients for the price range.

More details on all this later. I'll be releasing more details about individual VPS plans within a week!

- Wyatt T.

OSTKCabal

HalfEatenPie · Apr 2, 2014

If these are owned hardware remember to keep spare parts on site.

4x 2TB SATA hard drives at 7.2k RPM should be fine to start with but I'd suggest SSD-Cached to improve I/O (this can come later though). Good choice on Hardware raid.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of E3 nodes, but whatever floats your boat.

Looking good.

24shells · Apr 2, 2014

Change the processor to Dual E5-26xx series, it will be much more cost effective in long run for stable performance.

OSTKCabal · Apr 2, 2014

We are planning on offering Dual E5s at a later date.

HalfEatenPie said:
If these are owned hardware remember to keep spare parts on site.

Yet again, I remind everybody that this is a branch of an existing Dedicated Server provider. To save on hardware costs, we order in mass anyway, so spare parts are never an issue.

SkylarM · Apr 2, 2014

tchen said:
As long as the hardware is not EOL, who cares.

Curious on this one, if you don't mind.

Crissic utilizes EOL gear, used to run Dual L5520/L5639's (As do a few other companies, BuyVM to name one), we now currently run Dual X5660/X5650 CPU's. EOL yes, but cost effective and just as effective in the marketplace as an equivalent dual E5-2630v2 (not EOL). Last check cost difference between the two is about $2000 (fully built node, similar specs, similar performance [Mind you this is a buildout with 12 hard drives, 96GB ram, raid card, so forth]). The E5-2630v2 will *maybe* use 2A 120v less (that's a pretty big maybe, closer to the 1 to 1.5A 120v less range than 2, but we're being generous here for the sake of argument) power than the Dual X5660/X5650 setup I am running, which over the course of a 5 year period does not equal the price increase. Gear is older, but runs within a relatively negligible difference range of the newer (non-EOL) E5's. EOL, in my opinion, shouldn't really be a deciding factor.

tchen · Apr 2, 2014

SkylarM said:
Curious on this one, if you don't mind.

Crissic utilizes EOL gear, used to run Dual L5520/L5639's (As do a few other companies, BuyVM to name one), we now currently run Dual X5660/X5650 CPU's. EOL yes, but cost effective and just as effective in the marketplace as an equivalent dual E5-2630v2 (not EOL). Last check cost difference between the two is about $2000 (fully built node, similar specs, similar performance [Mind you this is a buildout with 12 hard drives, 96GB ram, raid card, so forth]). The E5-2630v2 will *maybe* use 2A 120v less (that's a pretty big maybe, closer to the 1 to 1.5A 120v less range than 2, but we're being generous here for the sake of argument) power than the Dual X5660/X5650 setup I am running, which over the course of a 5 year period does not equal the price increase. Gear is older, but runs within a relatively negligible difference range of the newer (non-EOL) E5's. EOL, in my opinion, shouldn't really be a deciding factor.

Primarily in reference to raid controllers, specifically driver/replacement concerns. Processors while technically EOL don't really have as much of a concern for me. Likewise with chipsets and memory.

I've just probably seen too many requests in the past on WHT from people looking to shove discontinued Dell PERCs into production.

OSTKCabal · Apr 3, 2014

HalfEatenPie said:
If these are owned hardware remember to keep spare parts on site.

4x 2TB SATA hard drives at 7.2k RPM should be fine to start with but I'd suggest SSD-Cached to improve I/O (this can come later though). Good choice on Hardware raid.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of E3 nodes, but whatever floats your boat.

Looking good.

We will most certainly offer SSD-Cached services on the Dual E5 nodes. More or less, the E3 HDD nodes will have less VPSs on them on average, and the E3 HDD is designed primarily for storage, or simply lower-I/O applications that don't need as much space. There will be no price difference between the two; the only difference lying in the amount of storage space the client recieves.

Here's our planned line-up:

OpenVZ - Cheap; Slightly more SSD/HDD space.

OVZ E3 SSD

OVZ E3 HDD

OVZ DUAL-E5 SSD

OVZ DUAL-E5 HDD(SSD-Cached)

An example of one of our OpenVZ plans:

(OVZ E3 SSD - 1GB RAM)

$15 / month (We plan to run semi-common promotions/coupons.)

1GB RAM / 1 GB Swap

2x vCPU (Shared) @ 3.5GHz

32GB Dedicated SSD Space (RAID-10 Samsung SSDs)

1Gbps Shared Port

2TB Monthly Transfer

1 IPv4 Address (+1 IPv4 for $2 / month)

16 IPv6 Addresses

KVM - Slightly more expensive; Same hardware; Slightly less HDD/SSD space.

KVM E3 SSD

KVM E3 HDD

KVM DUAL-E5 SSD

KVM DUAL-E5 HDD(SSD-Cached)

We are going to be performing more tests on KVM to be sure our plans are fair and sustainable for both us and our clients, and to get exact numbers on actual KVM resource usage.

Thanks again everybody! I look forward to hearing back from you!

Artie · Apr 3, 2014

What exactly are you offering that the all the other million hosts are not?

So far, you seem to be using the same words as everyone else: Cheap, SSD-Cached, high performance. This isn't unique. Everyone claims this.

dano · Apr 3, 2014

I am late to the thread, but as someone who has been around for a moment in the industry, I only have a few comments.

1. If your going to be a provider, have the ability to be contacted or have systems that work for communication.

For example, if you "launch" your new company, and I try and contact your "[email protected]"(which you advertised as the contact for questions), and I get no response for days, if ever, it's a FAIL. I have seen this happen many times in the industry, and I wish more providers would figure out a method or service to make sure that their support emails, are flowing. When I was a full time hosting person, we had* an option for phone support, and I can literally say, that we heard the "I e-mailed you a few days ago, but called instead, as no one responded" line many times. Since phone support is like seeing a dinosaur, please make sure your "support" systems are running everyday, and there are no issues with your mailqueue, etc -- as a hoster, on a "slow" day, we would send test e-mails to make sure the we still had everyday running right.

2. Don't jump into this industry without a clue or capital. For me, and I am kind of conservative, so I personally wouldn't toss a ad on this site or others, unless I had ALL my "ducks lined up". Although some folks can "lease" equipment in a good data center and make a brand for themselves, with honesty and good support, doesn't mean you can. I have seen so many "fly by night" hosting operations, I could prolly write a very boring book about it, and yet, I see this still happening, day in, day out. At this point, I can almost "smell" a pump-n-dump, or a brand that is a summer host, for lack of a better term, and I don't buy accounts from these folks.

Either your in it for the long haul, or just don't bother.

Otherwise, from what I seen in my years of support and dot com years -- "say what your going to do, and do what you say" everyday.

OSTKCabal · Apr 4, 2014

Artie said:
What exactly are you offering that the all the other million hosts are not?

So far, you seem to be using the same words as everyone else: Cheap, SSD-Cached, high performance. This isn't unique. Everyone claims this.

Is it not difficult to create a unique hosting service this late in the game?

I mean, really, I could (in theory) try to copy DigitalOcean, but that's been done dozens of times as well. I could try to offer the cheapest VPSs on the market, but I'd rather maintain a sustainable business.

The fact of the matter here is that each company is made different by the people who are behind it. It's that simple, really. The company's policies, the company's support, and the company's leadership are what make it unique. Those factors are what puts Company A over Company B in the same price range.

dano said:
I am late to the thread, but as someone who has been around for a moment in the industry, I only have a few comments.

1. If your going to be a provider, have the ability to be contacted or have systems that work for communication.

For example, if you "launch" your new company, and I try and contact your "[email protected]"(which you advertised as the contact for questions), and I get no response for days, if ever, it's a FAIL. I have seen this happen many times in the industry, and I wish more providers would figure out a method or service to make sure that their support emails, are flowing. When I was a full time hosting person, we had* an option for phone support, and I can literally say, that we heard the "I e-mailed you a few days ago, but called instead, as no one responded" line many times. Since phone support is like seeing a dinosaur, please make sure your "support" systems are running everyday, and there are no issues with your mailqueue, etc -- as a hoster, on a "slow" day, we would send test e-mails to make sure the we still had everyday running right.

2. Don't jump into this industry without a clue or capital. For me, and I am kind of conservative, so I personally wouldn't toss a ad on this site or others, unless I had ALL my "ducks lined up". Although some folks can "lease" equipment in a good data center and make a brand for themselves, with honesty and good support, doesn't mean you can. I have seen so many "fly by night" hosting operations, I could prolly write a very boring book about it, and yet, I see this still happening, day in, day out. At this point, I can almost "smell" a pump-n-dump, or a brand that is a summer host, for lack of a better term, and I don't buy accounts from these folks.

Either your in it for the long haul, or just don't bother.

Otherwise, from what I seen in my years of support and dot com years -- "say what your going to do, and do what you say" everyday.

1. Support & Contact

We already have tested our e-mail and support systems. On top of that, we have some very skilled and very dedicated staff behind this operation already. As of right now, I have good confidence in our ability to provide personalized and fast support to our clients. It's really the least I can do as a provider to ensure that my clients are getting the support they deserve, no matter the size of the issue at hand.

2. Capital & Management

I've said it about 5 times in this thread - This operation is a branch of an existing Dedicated Server provider that has approximately 30 racks in their won private suite in the Steadfast Networks 725 S. Wells data center. They will be supplying the equipment and base capital.

As for the management and support side of things, all I really have to say is that I personally will be handling much of the public relations, general management, and overseeing of staff. We have two very skilled systems administrators who will be handling much of the in-depth support and background technical management. As the need arises, we will certainly look to hire more support and tech staff to ensure our clients are receiving the quality of service they deserve and respect.

A big thanks to both of you for your concern and suggestions.

leto12 · Apr 7, 2014

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

Yes for a website !

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

KVM

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

Lastest hardware

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

No it's depend on feedback

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

If i have an answer in the 24 hours it's good

drmike · Apr 9, 2014

Some extra tips...

1. Pay for your licensed software.

2. Keep up to date on patches.

OSTKCabal · Apr 9, 2014

drmike said:
Some extra tips...

1. Pay for your licensed software.

2. Keep up to date on patches.

I'm an honest guy, drmike. I'm only interested in operating a legitimate business that our customers can trust and rely on. Furthermore, as a branch of a respected small-mid sized dedicated server company, it's in our best interest to keep a good public (and private for that matter) image.

Thelen · Apr 13, 2014

Older hardware isn't a problem in terms of performance, even something as old as say an X3440 will be more than enough CPU for 4 disks 32GB and 50-100 VPS depending on size. Obviously if you have 10 people transcoding the CPU will be maxed, but that will happen even with a brand new 1270, or even 2620, so it all comes down to ToS and making sure that never happens.

HostSailor · Apr 28, 2014

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

No.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

People would choose the platforms depending on their needs, some go for openvz, some for xen and some for kvm.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

Save a few bucks on slightly olrder hardware for sure, especially if you're only starting.

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

It certainly does.

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

As long as the provider takes immediate action on network failures, and responds within a timely manner on tickets, it's okay.

vps24.net · May 4, 2014

My point of view for Your points:

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

For some it`s important, for some is not - offer as the payed option - than You will know who really needs it.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

Depens of the purpose of the system. KVM is more isolated from the host machine (If we can use this wording) - use independed kernel - what can be important in some cases.

OpenVZ - has shared kernel space - what does not let You choose which kernel version You will use. Sure the OpenVZ has some advantages also

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

Top models are over priced in my opinion always - so the newer hardware will cost You more than power it will bring to You.

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

For sure adds the responsibility.

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

I`m online for most part of the day and also very often over the night - but it`s my personal problem, as I`m Night-Mark

regs.

http://www.vps24.net

zionvps · May 8, 2014

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

It is important because no matter what kind of business someone runs, as the business grows, competitors have an eye on them( if you know what i mean)

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

when it comes to favorite openvz is, i have done benchmarks on a 96gb ram server and 80vms on it. at a certain point, both virtualization starts to fall down, but kvm comes first. But sadly, due to potential of overselling, it has been given a bad name. I would rather stay on a normal kvm than on oversold openvz.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

As a vps, if the hardware is one or 2 generations old, it wont make much difference. generally latest hardware ( especially cpu) is made to use significantly lower power which is the concern of datacenter, not me

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

If a rented hardware has the same control, then not at all

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

Only if there is an issue from the node (vps not booting, no internet etc)

jvkz · May 24, 2014

1. No

2. KVM or Hyper-V if available

3. Yes, E3 atleast

4. Yes, it do but upgrade with time...

5. Do you like to wait till next morning when you want to buy a VPS for your project or company? If you do then ok if no try to give 24x7x365

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