Should service providers be able to refuse service based on country?

[Wambo]

Was chatting with someone who said he wanted to refuse service to people from certain countries as he says it's not worth supporting them. Hard to understand their requests, want more things for little money and have the highest rate of abuse. Should service providers be able to outright block entire countries from ordering? For example, block all non English speaking countries or block all high risk countries or whatever?

 

[Wintereise]

Why not? It's their business, who they accept as customers is upto them.

 

[Wambo]

That is what I think also but feel like even in areas like Egypt or China that good customers exist too. Are there any known hosts that openly decline service to certain parts of the globe?

 

[rds100]

Providers should be able to deny services based on the phase of the moon or anything else. It's a free market, nobody can force you to sell to people you don't want to sell to.

 

[drmike]

Was chatting with someone who said he wanted to refuse service to people from certain countries as he says it's not worth supporting them. Hard to understand their requests, want more things for little money and have the highest rate of abuse. 

Sure just like a business should be able to choose not to service gay folks, folks of different colors, those who appear to be crazy, those who appear to be sketchy, etc. 

These are private businesses.  They are not government sponsored equal playgrounds with unicorns, fluffy clouds and grand ole idealisms.

Banning customers in countries known for bastardized English is a great idea for those not wanting to churn life cycles and get slapped in forums for failure to communicate effectively.

 

[DomainBop]

Banning customers in countries known for bastardized English

Based on my experience with customers, that statement describes an ever increasing number of native English speaking Americans. Reading comprehension and ability to communicate properly in the English language ("Y U NO DO THAT?" doesn't count as English) have taken a nose dive in recent years (I blame Facebook and Twitter) 

Sure just like a business should be able to choose not to service gay folks, folks of different colors, those who appear to be crazy, those who appear to be sketchy, etc. 

These are private businesses.

Private businesses yes, but using many of those reasons as the sole basis to not provide service to a customer could earn a private business a lawsuit and/or government fines for violating various local, state, and Federal laws.  The Federal Civil Rights Act covers "folks of different colors" and the Americans with Disabilities Act covers "those who appear to be crazy", and on the state level California's Unruh Civil Rights Act covers "gay folks" (and several other states have similar laws).

 

[MannDude]

I don't see the issue with it, and in fact, it may even be a good thing if you're trying to target a specific section of the world. Though to prevent drama, it would probably be wise to not even accept connections from the part of the world you don't want to serve.

Assuming you want to block orders from Vietnam (example), probably best that they can't even access your full site and go through the order process just to be upset when they're denied. Would be less headache for them and for you if they see a landing page site or something similar. Not impossible to do.

Would need to watch out for VPN/Proxies/TOR orders as well but those are easy to spot and easy to deal with.

 

[gordonrp]

There are TONS of great clients in China etc. I just have yet to find them.

Kidding aside, on the hardware/dedi side of the business dealing with China etc is almost always a complete waste of time, massive amounts of fraud, etc.

On the VPS side where it's all automated, we have tons of Chinese clients paying happily. We never even have to talk with them, they never have to talk with us, they're auto shaped/limited/suspended etc on abuse, simple.

If you can't provide the level of service that you want due to communication issues etc, then certainly you should spend your time focusing on other clients instead!

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

I'm straight up blocking registration and orders from Costa Rica at the moment, and have been for several months.  Not due to any type of discrimination or stereotype, but because there are currently two major ROKSO setups there, and I'm tired of dealing with the fallout.

 

[KwiceroLTD]

Why not? I personally have a list of high-risk countries, and automatically send them for secondary screening process (manual overview of payment, account, etc). I don't straight up block them (well, I block Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, and Syria).

 

[drmike]

Based on my experience with customers, that statement describes an ever increasing number of native English speaking Americans. Reading comprehension and ability to communicate properly in the English language ("Y U NO DO THAT?" doesn't count as English) have taken a nose dive in recent years (I blame Facebook and Twitter) 

Private businesses yes, but using many of those reasons as the sole basis to not provide service to a customer could earn a private business a lawsuit and/or government fines for violating various local, state, and Federal laws.  The Federal Civil Rights Act covers "folks of different colors" and the Americans with Disabilities Act covers "those who appear to be crazy", and on the state level California's Unruh Civil Rights Act covers "gay folks" (and several other states have similar laws).

Yes, Ameicans are becoming the illiterati quickly and fashionably.  SMS yo'.  140 character attention spans and random blurts.  Let's sit at restaurant table and text each other.... Tssk.

As for private business part...  Laws are overbearing and out of control in the USofEhh.  

I am for all people being themselves and not being punted, mistreated, etc.  Civil rights era and prior for blacks was brutal and honestly rather disgusting.  Forced integration, meh, that didn't work and people navigate towards likes in a big way. Likes not in the Facecrook way of give a high five I agree, but Like in terms of people tend to congregate naturally with people like themselves in many ways.   A few go off path and wander, but vast majority stick in their known zone.

... and the poor Native Americans, life on the res.

Would I as a hosting provider (which I am not) discriminate against someone for race, skin tone, gayness or lack thereof, propensity toward drinking Jesus punch, etc.?  Nope, that would be being a dope I think.  I might discriminate if their container or server content raised 3rd party heat, required action, etc. If that use aligns with the former, I can't say, unintended if so for the slap/ban/abuse.

But I certainly would ban Iran, Cuba, North Korea for being on the trade embargo list.  I'd toss China on that possibly for fraud and inability to Engwish it enough.  I might stick Brazil on there for fraud, along with some other countries south of the border [these countries get random fraud outbreaks where you see 20 failed orders ideally all with stolen accounts].  Reactionary based on punches in the wallet and failed attempts.

Businesses need to be proactive before the storm hits and after getting slapped, they need to do whatever they deem right in reaction.

 

[Licensecart]

yes you can, cPanel ban certain countries.

 

[zomgmike]

I think it's widely accepted that the answer is, yes, it's fine to only do business with certain countries regardless of what industry you're in.  PayPal is a great example of a company that does this.

Hosting plans are contracts. For small contracts, I might not care what country someone is in because my risk and reward is low.  For large contacts I do care.  In instances where a contract is large enough for a Master Service Agreement to be actually pen-to-paper signed, the country they're in definitely comes into play. I know that if I have client who signs a contract and who is based out of the US, I can be sure that the contract will be enforcable. (Most niave statement of all time, am I right?!)  For another country, even if I go to the length necessary to enforce a contract, it may not be worth my time to do so.  If the other guy can flake out on the contract knowing that I can't/won't enforce it, that's certainly relevant to whether the deal is worth taking.

 

[DomainBop]

I think it's widely accepted that the answer is, yes, it's fine to only do business with certain countries regardless of what industry you're in.  PayPal is a great example of a company that does this.

There is one little known exception to this rule for US businesses however. In 1977 Congress passed a law creating the Office of Antiboycott Compliance which prohibits US companies from refusing to do business with / participating in boycotts of certain countries . Their website explains the law..

http://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac

 

[drmike]

There is one little known exception to this rule for US businesses however. In 1977 Congress passed a law creating the Office of Antiboycott Compliance which prohibits US companies from refusing to do business with / participating in boycotts of certain countries . Their website explains the law..

http://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac

That sh!t.

The Bureau is charged with administering and enforcing the Antiboycott Laws under the Export Administration Act. Those laws discourage, and in some circumstances, prohibit U.S. companies from furthering or supporting the boycott of Israel sponsored by the Arab League

Amazing to me to see the USA being all protectionist about little ole innocent Israel.

Back in 1977 when this BS piece of government crap was enacted, Rabbi, Abdullah Youssef was the Chief Rabbi of Israel.  His beliefs on the role of every non Jewish human on the planet in later times (circa 2010):

"With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one's donkey would die, they'd lose their money. This is his servant... That's why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Gentiles were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel."

Advocating the needless death of others because they are non Jewish and saying the only role of other humans is to serve the "People of Israel", is just WOW.  

All I can say is people ought to remember the USS Liberty and the 34 crew members killed by the Israel (1967).   Had the US taken proper action then and retaliated with force, Israel wouldn't be pimping the megaphone of the US today and we wouldn't have that ill law in 1977.

Domestic laws that protect any foreign nation should be illegal and those seeking to enact such should be brought to Court for treason.  Same logic should apply in any other foreign nation.  

We use to have individual nation states with all their quirks and differences.  If you resonated better with a certain thing or another, you migrated there.  The modern mall of America nation style is really ruining things globally.

 

[William]

Need to ban Iran, Syria and North Korea anyway (full EU & US sanctions) - Can't accept Payments from some African countries (both Kongos and alike)

 

[tmzVPS-Daniel]

Has anyone ever gotten a good client from China? Fraud, fraud and more fraud. 


And yes, you can deny anyone you want. Most likely people will start posting on forums regarding their experience. 

- Daniel

 

[drmike]

Has anyone ever gotten a good client from China? Fraud, fraud and more fraud. 

There are folks who claim China is good to them.  But larger experience all over is indeed lots of fraud and chargebacks.

 

[Flapadar]

I'm straight up blocking registration and orders from Costa Rica at the moment, and have been for several months.  Not due to any type of discrimination or stereotype, but because there are currently two major ROKSO setups there, and I'm tired of dealing with the fallout.

Had these as well, they're a dumb lot as well. They kept coming back even after being suspended after ~200 emails. Annoying. 

 

[mitgib]

Has anyone ever gotten a good client from China? Fraud, fraud and more fraud. 

And yes, you can deny anyone you want. Most likely people will start posting on forums regarding their experience. 

China is my bread and butter. The US is the source of the most fraud.  Everyone has different experiences  I have many fine US and Chinese customers, but I dislike the blatant stereotyping of Asian customers. People are people, it's just the view out the window that differs.