Spamhaus listing us for being listed and will not remove listings now?

[coreyman]

So we've got reports from Spamhaus and taken care of them promptly every time. Mostly the reports are about 'tinba botnet controllers' and I think this is some clients machines being compromised. The other day I got a report that one of our /24s had been listed so I checked it out and here is the link.

http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBL269077

They listed our range because we had reports back in May, but have only had 4 reports in the last two months. So I emailed them with this.

I'm sorry I dont understand what this report is? I took care of all of
the offending 'botnet controllers' and everything else listed and you
listed my ranges again for the same reason?

[SIZE=12px][FONT=arial]They replied with this. 
I want to know how in the hell they can legally be judge jury and executioner? Good ole' CC obviously got special treatment, did they pay them off? Is this Spamhaus trying to extort me? 
Keep in mind I have much more ip space, and they only listed the /24 that my VPS customers are on.
[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=12px][FONT=arial]Hello

I'm afraid, too much repeated abuse from your IP space.
Spamhaus SBL users do no long wish to receive any traffic from your IP
space - removal not possible.

--
Best regards
Thomas Morrison
[/FONT][/SIZE]

Spamhaus removal procedure per their website -

To have record SBL269077 (104.255.96.0/24) removed from the SBL, the Abuse/Security representative of bitaccel.com (or the Internet Service Provider responsible for supplying connectivity to 104.255.96.0/24) needs to contact the SBL Team by email (use this link) to explain how the abuse problem has been terminated (we need to know exactly how the issue has been dealt with and that this abuse problem is fully terminated). If the abuse problem that caused this listing has been terminated we will normally remove the listing from the SBL without delay.

They are only listing /27s, /28s, and /29s of single offenders over at softlayer.com? They don't have a single /24 listed and they are #1 on the top 10 worst offenders.

 

[Licensecart]

We need a new BlackListing service to take over from SpamHaus, they are great but if you are taking action and fixing it I don't see why they won't remove them from their lists. You aren't Colo-Crossing.

Tweet the douche: https://twitter.com/thomasspamhaus

 

[Robert]

I hate Spamhaus, only one previous listing, and they've listed 3 of our ranges. Absolute joke of a company, can't even be bothered to respond to our emails.

 

[tburke]

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

 

[HBAndrei]

It's bad from either side if you look at it.

From the blacklist's perspective, if an IP or range keeps getting blacklisted and they keep removing it then it pretty much defies the purpose of the blacklist, since spam will go through every time it gets delisted.

While from a provider's perspective with all the spam prevention methods some clients will still find ways to do it, and the IP ends up being blacklisted, even if you terminate the client you're still left with a tainted IP or range.

 

[MannDude]

Spamhaus isn't perfect but I do applaud their efforts. I do hope this can be resolved though timely. Dealing with blacklists and similar items from various sources is now an administrative overhead for any company in the industry, as tedious and annoying as that can be. (Especially when response and corrective action on their ends aren't taken as quickly as you'd like).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[coreyman]

Well while some points I agree with you guys you have to look at it another way. A TINBA Botnet controller is not in any way an email spam delivery method and now my clients are getting mails bounced because that range is listed in the SBL due to tinba botnet controllers.

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

We did keep our shit clean by responding to every SBL record in a timely manner. Then they listed us for being listed.....

 

[Robert]

Well while some points I agree with you guys you have to look at it another way. A TINBA Botnet controller is not in any way an email spam delivery method and now my clients are getting mails bounced because that range is listed in the SBL due to tinba botnet controllers.

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

We did keep our shit clean by responding to every SBL record in a timely manner. Then they listed us for being listed.....

Pretty much the same experience I had/am having.  

 

[joepie91]

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

Certain people keep claiming that. Yet there are frequent (very plausible) stories from people having issues getting Spamhaus to respond reasonably - or even respond at all. So how does that work?

 

[HN-Matt]

The nightmare of petty, corrupt email traffic cops. Better send that $20 PayPal payment to whitelist.douchebag or they might just hold your entire /24 hostage for who knows how long. Seems like another one of those areas of contemporary idiocracy where its hard to determine if the situation is more hilariously pitiful than genuinely irritating.

 

[coreyman]

Well I replied with the following yesterday.

So 4 reports in the past two months is 'too much' to get delisted? I'm
really confused now as we have people like colocrossing with TONS of
reports and you've delisted their entire IP space.
Your policy states
'IP addresses are removed immediately from the SBL database upon receipt
by the SBL Team of notification from the IP owner (the Internet Service
Provider responsible for assigning or routing the IP address) that the
reason for listing has been corrected or terminated. See SBL Delisting
Procedure <http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/delistingprocedure/> for a
detailed description of delisting policy and procedure.'

You've got receipt for every abuse complaint and they have all been
taken care of. I really do expect my ip space to be removed from your
listing. These ip addresses are assigned to 100's of downstream vps
customers and I've already started receiving complaints that they are
having mail bounces because of this listing.

 Mr Thomas Morrison replied with this.

Hello

I'm afraid, we can't help you at the moment.

--
Best regards
Thomas Morrison

SBL Removals Team
The Spamhaus Project
Geneva, Switzerland
http://www.spamhaus.org

So now I am royally fucked. I'm going to have to renumber all of the clients that complain and who knows how many of them I am going to lose due to this.

Edit: Actually there goes the first client that complained 1d 12h ago. They just put in a request to cancel their service.

 

[Licensecart]

I'm afraid we can't help you at the moment.

Something you'd expect to hear from a bunch of school kids… Sorry we can't help you I need permission from my mum and dad, or sorry we can't help you at the moment because I need a system administrator to fix it for us.

You should get them to contact Silly Bastard Lowlifes or refund them and invoice the "SBL" for the loss.

 

[HN-Matt]

Silly Bastard Lowlifes? But I thought SpamHaus was an esteemed pillar of the spam fighting community!

Good Heavens, do you mean to tell me they are not as reputable as Barracuda when it comes to petty traffic stops?

 

[RLT]

Snowshoe, spammers and botnets?

Sounds like c a while back.

 

[coreyman]

Snowshoe, spammers and botnets?

Sounds like c a while back.

Except we took care of the issues upon receipt.

 

[jarland]

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

Certain people keep claiming that. Yet there are frequent (very plausible) stories from people having issues getting Spamhaus to respond reasonably - or even respond at all. So how does that work?

I don't know. I see it too. I also have dealt with them several times in my various roles and never found them to be unfriendly or unreasonable in conversation. I don't want to say that anyone's story isn't legitimate, I've no doubt a history of being well received in such venues where others are not, surely it is about how you speak to them above all else. My attitude has always been "Thanks for helping us identify these problems, here's what I've done to resolve it."

 

[Nick_A]

SBL = terminate. Keeps things simple with SpamHaus.

 

[Coastercraze]

SBL = terminate. Keeps things simple with SpamHaus.

Yup that's about the jist of it. Guess it depends on who you deal with.

 

[Licensecart]

Silly Bastard Lowlifes? But I thought SpamHaus was an esteemed pillar of the spam fighting community!

Good Heavens, do you mean to tell me they are not as reputable as Barracuda when it comes to petty traffic stops?

looks like it mate, I used to support them, but if ColoCrossing can get away with it and they are the hellhole of Hosting, when someone tries to prevent it and work with them, they act like a bunch of tossers they loose my respect

 

[joepie91]

Spamhaus is one of the better blacklists around, they don't just blacklist people for no reason. Keep your shit clean and you won't have a problem.

Certain people keep claiming that. Yet there are frequent (very plausible) stories from people having issues getting Spamhaus to respond reasonably - or even respond at all. So how does that work?

I don't know. I see it too. I also have dealt with them several times in my various roles and never found them to be unfriendly or unreasonable in conversation. I don't want to say that anyone's story isn't legitimate, I've no doubt a history of being well received in such venues where others are not, surely it is about how you speak to them above all else. My attitude has always been "Thanks for helping us identify these problems, here's what I've done to resolve it."

That really shouldn't matter. Their supposed job is to prevent spam - not to be judge, jury and executioner on somebody's writing style. If they cannot handle complaints in a neutral manner (ie. results-oriented, rather than judging by personality as they seem to be doing), then they are not doing their job well.

The e-mail from Spamhaus that Corey quoted above, assuming that it is not being misrepresented, is absolutely unacceptable and unprofessional.