WebhostingTalk catches the LE* disease

[Aldryic C'boas]

Ok, so LE* can't carry the stigma of responsibility for this - it's been an ongoing condition for longer than any of us have been relevant (except maybe that old Tim guy ).  LE* just happens to be a prime example of how *not* to adapt to changing times.

Heh, anyways - the thread in question is here.  Figured I would bring it up here as I tend to enjoy conversing such topics with people I actually know and respect, rather than a gaggle of strangers and noise.  The thread over there is a bit long, but it's a good read.

A few people in that thread make a great point.  Excessive moderation, strict criteria to post, and so on will never "solve the problem" - trying to remain relevant by crippling potential competition helps nobody.  We have a realtime view of failure and deadpool over at the "cestpit" (I still want to slap whoever intentionally misspelled that) from all the providers that think simply overselling even more resources and ridiculous prices and offering resources they can't actually back.

I see a good bit of innovation (and a GREAT deal of copying) that's applaudable from realistic hosts.  New features, better quality as opposed to quantity;  at the end of the day though, there's nothing really groundbreaking going on.  Can't really give props to Digital Ocean, considering the concept was already in practice (Amazon caught just about everyone with their pants down).  It's pretty rare to find a good think tank, since sharing information amongst competition is pretty much taboo.

That would be an interesting concept, though.. the best minds of VPSB pooling ideas, pioneering a potential new direction.  None of the "non-compete"/NDA nonsense.. just a group of guys deciding on a good direction for the market to take, then everyone stepping back and approaching it at their discretion.

 

[KuJoe]

I made what I thought was a viable suggestion in that thread but it was overlooked or ignored so I figured they just wanted to bitch instead of discussing actual solutions to the problem.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

I made what I thought was a viable suggestion in that thread but it was overlooked or ignored so I figured they just wanted to bitch instead of discussing actual solutions to the problem.

Nail on the head, pretty much.  I don't fault the community, though - it's not like they actively encourage such idiocy.  And it is rather nice that they take an approach much similar to MannDude's;  in that they realize you cannot simply moderate what you feel is fair/unfair, as such will always be subjective to opinion and just start a slippery slope to "only people we trust/like get posted".

 

[Jonathan]

I made what I thought was a viable suggestion in that thread but it was overlooked or ignored so I figured they just wanted to bitch instead of discussing actual solutions to the problem.

I think it got overlooked being at the bottom of page one...


Either way, I replied.  Good idea, but near impossible implementation because who is to define the definition of managed/unmanaged?

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

If there's to be any type of seperation, I think Curtis' approach would be best.  Completely unworkable on WHT without an all new platform, but still the best way to go about it.

That being DailyServerDeals, of course.  The Find a Plan option, where you get a list of options you can toggle.  Only trust registered businesses?  *toggle* Don't want to deal with providers younger than two years? *toggle*

Let the consumer make the definitions.  They'll either care or they won't, and the ones that do will take the time to use filters to get what they're comfortable with.  That should be the point anyways - protect the consumer, not the companies.  It's our job to protect ourselves by staying relevant and in demand.

 

[MannDude]

This will happen anywhere.

No one is truly happy anywhere they are.

Some people love it here, some people hate it. I can't appeal to everyone.

LowEndTalk can't appeal to everyone.

WebHostingTalk can't appeal to everyone.

I try to do what I can within my limits to please folks here, and fail often. I'm sure WHT staff, in their old age, are just tired and don't care anymore I'm young(ish) [closer to 30 than 20] so I still have enough vigor to try to please the masses before their constant nagging drives me insane and I abandon ship to walk into the woods to never be seen again 

WHT's main issue is it's simply a sea of providers, shills, and lacking in content. The strict moderation doesn't hurt, but what does hurt is when a simple messup results in an infraction and not an open dialogue on how to correct. If I post an offer today with wrong formatting, it gets removed, and I have to wait another 7 days to post a new one. That's lame. The unlimited hosting offers being allowed is kind of lame, but whatever.

 

[NodeWest-Dan]

I stopped using that site other than to post an advertisement once a week. Even that is becoming useless.

I always though of putting up a forum for verified providers to advertise on and the public to use. I own webhostinghuddle.com but haven't ever done anything with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[maounique]

Nail on the head, pretty much.  I don't fault the community, though - it's not like they actively encourage such idiocy.  And it is rather nice that they take an approach much similar to MannDude's;  in that they realize you cannot simply moderate what you feel is fair/unfair, as such will always be subjective to opinion and just start a slippery slope to "only people we trust/like get posted".

Amen to that.

However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. That alone is not enough, you need someone to constantly remind you what you want to do and show that current actions do not work towards that goal when that happens (it will, we are all human).

It is then very important to admit a mistake and learn from it but there is a saying: Intelligent people learn from own mistakes, but it takes a genius to learn from other people's mistakes.

 

[DomainBop]

That should be the point anyways - protect the consumer, not the companies.  It's our job to protect ourselves by staying relevant and in demand.

That should be the point but most forums take a different view.  Maarten at LowEndTalk tries to protect the companies first and foremost...his criticism of Ash was a rare exception (which of course pleases his masters in Buffalo).  iNET at WHT does what it has always done on all of its sites, like HotScripts and ABestWeb , tries to maximize its corporate revenues and shows little concern for the welfare of either the consumer or the companies.  I think the mods at WHT would like things to be different but they (the ones who aren't iNET employees) are hamstrrung by iNET.

edit:

I try to do what I can within my limits to please folks here, and fail often.

fix the ignore feature so I can add admins to my list and I'll be pleased

 

[GVH-Jon]

WebHostingTalk is an example of how all popular forums in existence should be moderated. I honestly think that WHT is a great forum as well as LET, except LET needs to be more strictly moderated to the degree that WHT is.

And "Excessive moderation, strict criteria to post, and so on will never "solve the problem" ? Not at all. WHT's moderation isn't excessive and their criteria to post isn't strict. If anything, it's not enough.

iNET is doing a great job at running WHT and I wouldn't like it any other way.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

And "Excessive moderation, strict criteria to post, and so on will never "solve the problem" ? Not at all. WHT's moderation isn't excessive and their criteria to post isn't strict. If anything, it's not enough.

...do you even know what "solve the problem" is referring to here?  Or did you just skim and throw a quick post to get your garish signiture ad out some more?

But let's play devil's advocate.  I would be 100% for excessively strict moderation on WHT, especially since it means you and all the other CC shills/shells would end up thrown out, just like Fabozzi was.

 

[GVH-Jon]

Redacted

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

...is it just not obvious to you by now that nobody here is going to believe a word you say without evidence?  Unless you're simply that damn bored, I don't get why you keep wasting your time.

Though it is good to see that you're finally admitting how dirty things are there.

 

[MartinD]

Okay - this direction stops immediately. Back on topic or sod off out of this thread.

 

[blergh]

From my point of view in terms of the LEB-market/website it all went to shit with the good content disappearing. Back in 2008 when 512MB offers were kind of rare and people were experimenting, using their resources for something, learning something in the process. Forums were about learning, giving back and meeting new people that shared your interests or passion. I personally miss the older days when you didn't have to do actual research before choosing a provider out of fear of them disappearing or being a reseller of a reseller (resell-ception) trying to undercut everyone and everything. I miss being able to pay a honest, real-world figure for my services, both to make sure that the company I am with makes enough to grow and keep on doing what they, improving and bringing new stuff to the market. I miss the blogs with actual content and howto's, where people did it for fun and for learning instead of trying to shitspray everything with ads. Things changes and so do prices, and while I'm personally not in the LEB-market (Business-wise, that is) I feel sad for the current state of things, maybe it's just me being an old fart who's nostalgic over the glory-days or maybe it's just the cold fact.

I'm not saying that simply increasing prices would magically improve everything, because it won't. But what I'd love to see is people starting to understand price vs value, and that paying 15-20 USD for a 2GB VPS isn't to be considered a scam, bad joke or anything but actually sane business-practice. If you are confident in your service then you should have no issues with charging for it, the whole LEB-playground isn't a good ground for business I'm afraid (as seen by the huge number of deadpools over the years). As for the whole providers-shitstorms going on; vote with your money - No need to discuss or cause drama just for the sake of it.

My TL;DR is probably just that of; Get your services, honor those that you think do good. As for the community feel free to try and improve it, be it by doing reviews or guides - Doing something to keep new people from learning, sharing the knowledge. Unfortunately there seems to be an awful lot of e-peen involved in just giving a helping hand or giving honest and helpful advice.

I apologize if i am being off-topic, but just figured i would throw my thoughts out there.

 

[MartinD]

Looks like Dennis has sent it out in an email, too:


http://click.inetinteractive-email.com/?qs=472b8134d547baff766bff915b00907ab24034d826cecce1bc4a6c7ac278f9e7

 

[NodeWest-Dan]

The only customers I ever seem to be in touch with from webhostingtalk are fraud and spam clients.

All of our legit customers come from here, reddit, and word of
Mouth.


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[Hxxx]

@Aldryic C'boas

I like your point of view. Are you sure you cannot buy WHT?

I can't imagine WHT more restricted, you can't even say fuck, not even shitty?... Sometimes that is needed.

I also agree with you on the new platform. Definetely a most. Forums for advertisement is not longer appropiate.

You know what is funny about WHT management, they don't point out solutions, they dont even really participate. That email that went out was clearly to get more traffic ^ ^ . As always no solution (if any needed) will be implemented.

Geez ... Money and traffic is all that counts there.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

Heh, you don't ever want me in a position of authority in a community.  Trust me on that one - I simply don't have the tolerance.

You can curse on WHT, so long as you don't go overboard with it and aren't directly insulting someone.  I've used 'dicking around', 'completely fucked', and other such charming phrases in the occasional post - never been warned about it.  But I do strive to keep my language clean there when I can, so that's likely why I haven't taken any heat for the few slip ups.

To be fair... of course they want more traffic, and they're not going to give 'official' input this early.  That thread is a great opportunity for them to sit back and gather user opinions, which they may take into account when deciding on changes down the line.  The more prominent mods already posted their opinions anyways - I wouldn't sweat them not getting down and dirty with all the mud-slinging that took place.

 

[hellogoodbye]

Maybe it's due to me being a newbie, but I find WHT to be a very active forum and one that I have to struggle to keep up with because new threads are always popping up and comments being posted. I didn't participate in that thread because I feel like it was mostly soliciting responses from the providers that frequent WHT, but it was kind of disheartening to read some of the comments there even though I've seen the same attitude before elsewhere. I think for some people, they've just been around the forums for so long that they fail to see things from the other side, ie. the perspective of newcomers/end users.