# The CC gang & shell companies



## SrsX (Dec 15, 2013)

Due to the very large size of this, I had to put it in a text file as it was too big to be posted here.

http://pastebin.com/qxzBg8e2

Should be enough, I'll post more tomorrow.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Who cares?


----------



## SrsX (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Who cares?


Well assuming you enjoy money laundering, scamming, etc. then no one.

However, if you don't then probably a lot of people.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Well, does it affect you? Does it affect anyone on here except the people that constantly bombard the forums with their "oh i hate CC because..." bullshit...? Probably not. If you have a company, do what I do, worry about running your company. If you have dirt on these people then bring it up to the authorities and let them handle it. Too many people on here watch too many detective shows now they think they're detectives...


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Who cares?


I do.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Why? How does it affect you? How does the operations of one company cause you any issues or problems?


----------



## SrsX (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Well, does it affect you? Does it affect anyone on here except the people that constantly bombard the forums with their "oh i hate CC because..." bullshit...? Probably not. If you have a company, do what I do, worry about running your company. If you have dirt on these people then bring it up to the authorities and let them handle it. Too many people on here watch too many detective shows now they think they're detectives...


I don't have a company, nor do I want to own one in the VPS marketplace. It's not to say I don't have servers with companies; I stay on top of this what'd you call bullshit because I don't want my servers sitting in a datacenter run by money launders and scammers.

It's *THAT *simple.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Ok, then don't have your servers there. That is indeed simple as well.


----------



## SkylarM (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Well, does it affect you? Does it affect anyone on here except the people that constantly bombard the forums with their "oh i hate CC because..." bullshit...? Probably not. If you have a company, do what I do, worry about running your company. If you have dirt on these people then bring it up to the authorities and let them handle it. Too many people on here watch too many detective shows now they think they're detectives...


For someone who only worries about their own company, you sure seem to have a lot of time to bitch about people bitching about colocrossing.

You don't *HAVE* to click the thread. Nobody is forcing you to read it.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Ok, then don't have your servers there. That is indeed simple as well.


Why are you so interested in dictating what others care about in relation to this matter?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MannDude (Dec 15, 2013)

Try to keep discussion civil... just a reminder.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

My company is running properly. I think it's time for the butt hurt people to leave the drama alone. If we wanted a drama filled forum we would all be on LET. Nobody forced you to comment on my comment either, which wasn't directed at you as it was directed at others. You chose to reply. So, I guess we're in the same boat eh?


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> My company is running properly. I think it's time for the butt hurt people to leave the drama alone. If we wanted a drama filled forum we would all be on LET. Nobody forced you to comment on my comment either, which wasn't directed at you as it was directed at others. You chose to reply. So, I guess we're in the same boat eh?


Sir, I could make a similar accusation of "butt hurt" with quite equal logic as yours. Shall we simply avoid such mud flinging?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

jarland said:


> Why are you so interested in dictating what others care about in relation to this matter? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


What I am asking is why does it matter what they do? How does it affect you as a customer or provider? I really want to know the true reason behind why we have threads on here all the time about how bad CC is and such? I've seen a lot of shady companies over the 15+ years I've been around this industry.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> What I am asking is why does it matter what they do? How does it affect you as a customer or provider? I really want to know the true reason behind why we have threads on here all the time about how bad CC is and such? I've seen a lot of shady companies over the 15+ years I've been around this industry.


Have you never in your life actually cared for other people? Some people live to educate others. There are a handful of people in a relevant community who have decided they are tired of watching a handful of people deceive others. Are you truly so lost in yourself that you cannot possibly comprehend the desire to make others aware of what you see as fraudulent actions being committed in front of them, knowing they don't all have the time to find out for themselves without someone to show them? If you don't like it, you don't have to read it either 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## drmike (Dec 15, 2013)

It matters because these folks are lying and running in a pack together.

How does it effect me?  Well for instance, CVPS + vpsAce + another ServerMania "brand" can't handle breakins and data theft... So people get victimized, code gets stolen, etc.

How else?  It's skews the market.   Creates unnatural marketplace.  Drives down and out viable competition.

It's in essence price fixing and market manipulation.  Especially at point where the same asshats from ServerMania run 20 offers in a year.

Throw on that, all the other cozy CC companies with offers.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Ok drmike good answer.. Jarland, educating people and having a grudge does seem like 2 totally different things in my opinion. Currently it looks more like a grudge rather than wanting to educate people... And before you guys go off and do your snoopy crap, yes, I do have a server with CC and no I haven't had any issues with it and yes I do have some at other providers that I may or may not like better... So, technically, I don't care what they do until it really does affect me... Until then, it is what it is...

The low end market in itself is flawed due to the CC crap, this I know. I don't care for the LE market as a whole, due to the douchebaggery that takes place in it...

Like I said before though, turn the evidence over to the authorities and let them handle it. Until then, you're not doing much of anything except spreading gossip and crap over the internet about them.


----------



## Coastercraze (Dec 15, 2013)

SrsX said:


> Well assuming you enjoy money laundering, scamming, etc. then no one.
> 
> However, if you don't then probably a lot of people.


http://www.cftc.gov/IndustryOversight/AntiMoneyLaundering/index.htm

http://www.ic3.gov

http://www.sec.gov/complaint/select.shtml

Maybe one of them would be interested in hearing that. Anyways, if it's a crime, report it to the authorities. I think IC3 would be best, however, you probably need to be a victim of some sort of fraud.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

You can interpret it however you want. Everything I've ever done in my life has been about trying to improve the lives of others. That is what makes me happy. That is what gives me purpose. You can step on the scene and make accusations, but I know there are others like me who are tired of watching people get walked on and simply refuse to watch it. We will not allow simple ridicule to sway us. Maybe no one asked for my help, but this is who I am. Several others here I know feel the same.


----------



## texteditor (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> I don't get why people have empathy for each other. As long as you haven't been scammed yet, who cares? Also, why do you care about not doing business with scummy companies? People scam people, I say, let it happen.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

texteditor said:


> XFS_Duke said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get why people have empathy for each other. As long as you haven't been scammed yet, who cares? Also, why do you care about not doing business with scummy companies? People scam people, I say, let it happen.


Good one... Go ahead and edit quotes... That's real mature of you... lol...


----------



## texteditor (Dec 15, 2013)

jarland said:


> You can step on the scene and make accusations, but I know there are others like me who are tired of watching people get walked on and simply refuse to watch it. We will not allow simple ridicule to sway us. Maybe no one asked for my help, but this is who I am. Several others here I know feel the same.


It's even more depressing when you realize LowEndBox/LowEndTalk is mirrored and/or followed by many non-English-speaking web communities who began following it when it had a better reputation as a good source to find VPSs for their more...limited budgets, people without the extra disposable income to pick up a second or third VPS if they go with a bad company the first time.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

texteditor said:


> It's even more depressing when you realize LowEndBox/LowEndTalk is mirrored and/or followed by many non-English-speaking web communities who began following it when it had a better reputation as a good source to find VPSs for their more...limited budgets, people without the extra disposable income to pick up a second or third VPS if they go with a bad company the first time.


I think about that a lot, and you know a lot of those people follow it because they don't have a lot of money and they see it as a means to opportunity. The context of taking advantage of them is quite saddening indeed. We've had our disagreements but you are one that I know actually cares about others.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Dec 15, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> So, technically, I don't care what they do until it really does affect me... Until then, it is what it is...



I'm sure the Polish and other European Jews thought the same of their unfortunate German/Austrian neighbors in the 40s.  And by the time it affected them.. hey, too late.

Sure, that's a very extreme example.  But if you decide not to have a personal stake in the issue - don't have one.  This is coming from someone that was directly affected by all of ChicagoCrossingVPS' lies - to the tune that they _still_ owe us 700$ in refunds from November that we'll likely never see.  That's not counting two pieces of hardware we purchased that were straight up stolen from us after they decided to claim that we paid full price on brand new units (power strip and KVM) to be 'leased' to us.  Nor counting the absolute shit service we had the past year - IPs randomly nulled with zero proof of abuse and refusal to remove the nulls until we kicked out a particular client; multiple outages that they had the gall of trying to blame us for when a tech's butterfingers was the fault;  absolutely rude and completely inexperienced "techs" that would "fix" problems by replying with 'No, that's not what we're seeing' and closing out the ticket.  A complete disregard for client privacy and confidentiality.

Doesn't affect you?  You're lucky.  If you don't do business with them?  Nothing you need concern yourself with in this thread - just keep walking.  Do have service, or are thinking of getting service with them?  These threads are honest reviews, and solid researchable fact.  If you choose to disregard because it "doesn't affect you", then by all means.  But when it finally does?  Don't look to us for sympathy.


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 15, 2013)

Aldryic, with all due respect, I wouldn't look here for sympathy. If it would be a legal situation then I would take it up with the authorities and not post on forums except once about my issue and then leave it at that and let the authorities handle it from there. See, being from Louisiana, I have a different view on things I guess... But trust me.. I'm going about everything the best way I can and intend to fully handle any situation that arises. I was reluctant to get a server with them because of the issues that you guys all had. I bit the bullet and ordered one... I feel for you and your issues, but I would contact the authorities to handle it... These forums cannot get you anything back including the refunds... If I could get them back for you, I would, as well as any other member here. What I'm trying to say here is that this isn't the best avenue to take. If they're doing something illegal as many of you said they are, then report them. This forum cannot do anything except repost stuff and their findings.

Hell, I'm not saying stop investigating and letting people know... Start one thread and stick to it! Make it a sticky or something lol... I'm not affected by the crap one bit, but it gets old.. Sorta like people complaining about people with guns and wanting to block people from having guns... But, that one does affect me as I have guns, but it still gets old listening to it and hearing/reading it... Eh... Oh well I lost interest in this now... Good going people, especially texteditor who enjoys editing a quote to make it look like people said something that wasn't sait... lol


----------



## drmike (Dec 15, 2013)

I'll say it again...

This all matters because it's screwing up the marketplace, ruining perception of value, and swinging customers unfairly.

I know you are a provider XFS_Duke and I am certain sales are being drained from what likely is your superior service.  Drained at decision time where they choose one of the 20 Servermania offers or one of the many from other affiliated house companies.

The legal situation I've long held back on pursuing.  You know and I know stuff like this is abstract to lazy government types.  Government isn't known for policing and being proactive or even researching things.  It's always too little and too late.  Thus the common belief that it is easier to disregard and break the laws and later IF caught get a slap on the wrist and say sorry.

Beyond that, for all my barking and being mean, I truly am not interested in seeing even CC or Servermania lose their company and/or face legal actions.  But, at some point... Well... someone, even me may push the files across the desk.

Now there is this other issue XFS_Duke, you most certainly are being negatively impacted due to CC's much deserved reputation of being shady and dealing in questionable ways.  Educated buyers who do their research and see CC in the mix and who aren't buying purely on lowest cost may be ruling your company out due to CC network usage solely.

It's a matter of being judged by the company you keep.  I like you XFS_Duke and zero negativity being thrown at you.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Dec 15, 2013)

No worries Duke, and my apologies if I came across a bit harsh.  Aye, I agree fully that it does get tiresome to see the same junk over and over.. but when it's new info?  Just my opinion.. but even if annoying to me, I think it's worth it just to keep clients that do care about looking into a company from being uninformed.  When things aren't brought to light, that's when the Constantinos and Sals get free reign to rip off folks that wouldn't know any better.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> No worries Duke, and my apologies if I came across a bit harsh. Aye, I agree fully that it does get tiresome to see the same junk over and over.. but when it's new info? Just my opinion.. but even if annoying to me, I think it's worth it just to keep clients that do care about looking into a company from being uninformed. When things aren't brought to light, that's when the Constantinos and Sals get free reign to rip off folks that wouldn't know any better.


Such is always the cycle of a civilization. Did you know parents are starting to refuse to vaccinate their kids in America? The reason they feel it's safe? Because the diseases aren't really around. Why aren't they around? Because of the vaccinations. Now we're seeing an increase in deaths by diseases we'd long since beaten.


When left to their own devices for too long a community, or any other culture of people, will eventually forget the events that led to the current state of things and they will shed off what they see as useless ritual and repeat the past. This appears to be human nature.


We're seeing it in action here. Why be paranoid when people are rarely being scammed? Except that our paranoia is what drove away most of the scammers. To think new ones won't arise in the absence of the paranoia is, at best, ignorant.


----------



## budi1413 (Dec 15, 2013)

WTF i've seen.


----------



## drmike (Dec 15, 2013)

jarland said:


> our paranoia is what drove away most of the scammers. To think new ones won't arise in the absence of the paranoia is, at best, ignorant.


I  don't think we've driven the scammers out.  To point, summerhosts and outright hit and run types have been stomped, especially on this site.

The scamming though... Nah hasn't happened.

I mean look at the case in point.   You too can run 20 shell company offers on LEB....  Shack up in Buffalo and hide your whois data and do it with a domain with old registration (i.e. aged more than 1 year).

Question to you Jarland other folks like Ald and XFS_Duke... Your company shoes whois info, right?   Your company is incorporated, right?

That's the difference between real folks and this idiots and their endless shell companies.  

I said it before and will again, ServerMania's shells are beat.  They will do more rollouts of new companies with same old domain and hidden info.

Here's the next move though... Won't be out of CC location cause that's beat to death.  Next one is coming out of Phoenix.


----------



## jarland (Dec 15, 2013)

drmike said:


> Question to you Jarland other folks like Ald and XFS_Duke... Your company shoes whois info, right? Your company is incorporated, right?


Publicly traded even


----------



## Francisco (Dec 15, 2013)

Pheonix?

ServerHub?

Francisco


----------



## XFS_Duke (Dec 16, 2013)

Yea, my company is a registered LLC and Whois information is publicly available.


----------



## drmike (Dec 16, 2013)

There's no reason not to have public info when selling products like this.

Incorporation is minor cost, no real barrier.

All the folks I deal with for services have public WHOIS and certainly are incorporated 

The rules for listings here and over there should mandate both.


----------



## Coastercraze (Dec 16, 2013)

drmike said:


> There's no reason not to have public info when selling products like this.
> 
> Incorporation is minor cost, no real barrier.
> 
> ...


Yup and not to mention it provides additional benefits.


----------



## vRozenSch00n (Dec 16, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Well, does it affect you? Does it affect anyone on here except the people that constantly bombard the forums with their "oh i hate CC because..." bullshit...? Probably not. If you have a company, do what I do, worry about running your company. If you have dirt on these people then bring it up to the authorities and let them handle it. Too many people on here watch too many detective shows now they think they're detectives...


I'm just an end user. Whenever I use a service, I expect to use a trustworthy provider. Trustworthy doesn't have to come from a big company or how long they have been in the business and trust is something a provider has to earn from their customer.

When I use my credit card, I expose and entrust my personal identity to the service provider. Shit happens and whenever a provider is breached and customers' data set is stolen, what user expect is a comforting resolution and assurance that it will not happen again.

It will hurt a user if a user had paid a service for a full year, and all of a sudden the service provider just vanish in the thin air. Not only the user lost his/her data, he/she loses money for the unused service, and waste time to rebuild and restore the backup to another service providers' machine.

It is natural when a big company channel its marketing venue through several smaller companies to offer various services and to reach various market segmentation, be it in a form of incorporated group of companies or in a form of a decentralized subsidiary.

The thing is when a big corporation denies its relation with their channels, especially when the channels are a typical pop and burst entities, while publicly available evidence does not say so, It's hard for a user to place any trust on a company like that.

It is better for such company to say something like "xdxdxd llc is one of our member of group/subsidiary, however we do not directly manage xdxdxd llc, therefore any legal matters should be directly addressed to xdxdxd llc" 

To wrap it up, as an end user I need to have a good information about a service provider that end user like me might use their service someday.


----------



## vRozenSch00n (Dec 16, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> No worries Duke, and my apologies if I came across a bit harsh.  Aye, I agree fully that it does get tiresome to see the same junk over and over.. but when it's new info?  Just my opinion.. but even if annoying to me, I think it's worth it just to keep clients that do care about looking into a company from being uninformed.  When things aren't brought to light, that's when the Constantinos and Sals get free reign to rip off folks that wouldn't know any better.


Constantinos is a perfect case that I had bad experience with.


----------



## peterw (Dec 16, 2013)

Don't try to protect greedy dump people for themselfs. They are always present and always willing to spend money for bad services.


----------



## imperio (Dec 16, 2013)

Pay with paypal and only monthly contracts if you are not sure about the provider.How can you be scammed this way ? Or you will lose $7 at most if paypal rejects your dispute.People on other countries shopping from low end market mostly takes this route i guess.


----------



## drmike (Dec 16, 2013)

I pretty much stopped monthlies and only deal with totally seasoned and highly regarded companies --- like the quarterly and annual plans.

Heck I've even added big and what I'd deem expensive companies these days.   Buying less and less from the low cost  companies.


----------



## imperio (Dec 16, 2013)

Another example, I am dealing with internap for cloud/dedicated services lately.They do not offer cloud services on denver and Hong Kong locations.I have to buy from their resellers for these locations.Sometimes you have to buy from somehow low reputable or new companies.I protect myself by doing monthlies in this kind of situations.


----------



## vRozenSch00n (Dec 16, 2013)

imperio said:


> Pay with paypal and only monthly contracts if you are not sure about the provider.How can you be scammed this way ? Or you will lose $7 at most if paypal rejects your dispute.People on other countries shopping from low end market mostly takes this route i guess.


I don't have a PayPal account anymore. 

I had several VPSes with Constantinos and I set PayPal subscription for each VPS.

When Hostrail starts to sink, I canceled all subscription to Hostrail.

The next day, I received an e-mail from PayPal notifying that my account is freeze due to suspicious activity.

I can pay with credit card through PayPal, but some providers forced me to open a PayPal account first without any option to pay directly using my credit/debit card.


----------



## imperio (Dec 16, 2013)

Paypal sucks especially if you are from some high fraud country but you have the option not to work with companies that you do not feel comfortable enough with buyer protection.Money back guarantee can also work.I know vps is a virtual good however if there are lots of disputes for the same company paypal will notice there is something wrong.You can also chargeback via your credit card company.


----------



## terafire (Dec 16, 2013)

ColoCrossing, although as evil as it is, are extremely smart when it comes to their inherent takeover of the low-end VPS market. Not only do they own/operate or have a very high vested interest in many of the companies that out-price all the competition, but they also push semi-successful companies out of business that could be seen as competition. On top of that they own and operate LET/LEB which means they basically have the last say in anything that gets posted there, and control the marketplace, with obvious favoritism toward their own companies, and companies that do business with them (but aren't big enough to be legitimate competition). Although they way they went about this takeover wasn't exactly smooth, they don't care. In the long run, people from countries all over the world, will frequent those sites, not caring or knowing about what is going on, therefore companies (such as us) post there so we can get that business. 

If you don't find a problem with that, then you choose to either have your head stuck in the sand, or you simply do business with them, and can't afford to talk badly about them because of the possible repercussions.


----------



## SrsX (Dec 16, 2013)

Decided to register on lowendbox and communicate with Mr. Biloh, let's see how this goes, seeing as I have access to resources which his name is in... a lot.


----------



## drmike (Dec 16, 2013)

I think most folks are just outright afraid of them (CC). 

What strikes me as odd is they are rather puny.   Good sized small business, but in big picture, puny.  Kind of like being afraid of the grade school bully.

There are other low cost places all over the globe.  I don't see any of the crazy behavior with the ownership of those places.  None of the industry fear. Zippo.

Can't most of these VPS companies survive without CC providing freebies, welfare and sweetheart deals?   That's what it has to be.  People are afraid of burning that last ditch bridge they might need before drowning.


----------



## wlanboy (Dec 17, 2013)

terafire said:


> If you don't find a problem with that, then you choose to either have your head stuck in the sand, or you simply do business with them, and can't afford to talk badly about them because of the possible repercussions.


Don't care about it because you cannot change how they are working is more the way I am thing about it.


----------



## jarland (Dec 17, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> Don't care about it because you cannot change how they are working is more the way I am thing about it.


Not about changing it. It's consumer awareness. People have a right to know, that's all. If everyone goes quiet about it, the new member tomorrow won't know. So if you do care, then what's wrong with it?


----------



## Francisco (Dec 17, 2013)

Something I just read is making me cackle like a mad fool.

Maarten claims there is 147 pending offers. *Somehow*, without any sort of manipulation of course, they picked out 19 offers for Chris N alone, not counting the other funny offers.

VPSAce *still* hasn't had their hack documented. In fact, ol' Alex is trying to play it off that it isn't their fault and they are the victim. Hey, fair enough, they were too dumb to rotate their password. What's up for discussion, though, is that they've *still* not emailed a *single* customer about this, or informed Visa/Mastercard of the hack.

Francisco


----------



## drmike (Dec 17, 2013)

Francisco said:


> VPSAce *still* hasn't had their hack documented. In fact, ol' Alex is trying to play it off that it isn't their fault and they are the victim. Hey, fair enough, they were too dumb to rotate their password. What's up for discussion, though, is that they've *still* not emailed a *single* customer about this, or informed Visa/Mastercard of the hack.


Did someone have an official route for notifying Visa and Mastercard of this?  I'll pry my fat ass off the couch and fill out the paperwork/complaint if so - for the benefit of the customers victimized - since these folks inevitably are screwed since their full credit card info was exposed.


----------



## Francisco (Dec 17, 2013)

drmike said:


> Did someone have an official route for notifying Visa and Mastercard of this?  I'll pry my fat ass off the couch and fill out the paperwork/complaint if so - for the benefit of the customers victimized - since these folks inevitably are screwed since their full credit card info was exposed.


Talk with domainbop.

They put in a formal complaint for CVPS (or so they say).

Francisco


----------



## DomainBop (Dec 17, 2013)

Visa Incident Response Center:

USA 1-650-432-2978, [email protected]

Canada  1-416-860-3090 [email protected]

These 2 guides should be required reading for anyone who accepts credit cards so they know what to do if they're hacked:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/cisp_what_to_do_if_compromised.pdf

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/cisp_responding_to_a_data_breach.pdf

There is a short outline of the steps to take here: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/cisp_if_compromised.html .You're supposed to notify your merchant provider within 3 business days when a breach occurs.

...edited to add MasterCard

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/Account_Data_Compromise_User_Guide.pdf


----------



## Francisco (Dec 17, 2013)

But how do you file a complaint?

Francisco


----------



## HalfEatenPie (Dec 18, 2013)

Francisco said:


> But how do you file a complaint?
> 
> Francisco


Call their parents.

Be like "They need to be put in time out."


----------



## Coastercraze (Dec 18, 2013)

Francisco said:


> But how do you file a complaint?
> 
> 
> Francisco


Providing you're the victim, call your CC issuing bank (on the back of the card is a phone number usually) and ask them how to report it.


----------



## Francisco (Dec 18, 2013)

Sounds like some calls need to be made to some card holders then.

Francisco


----------



## Virtovo (Dec 19, 2013)

Not announcing a breach is one thing.  When that breach includes credit card numbers with the means to decrypt them it takes it to a totally new level.  Do Visa/Mastercard not have systems to spot patterns in illegal usage of card numbers to identify where breaches occurred?


----------



## javaj (Dec 20, 2013)

Virtovo said:


> Not announcing a breach is one thing.  When that breach includes credit card numbers with the means to decrypt them it takes it to a totally new level.  Do Visa/Mastercard not have systems to spot patterns in illegal usage of card numbers to identify where breaches occurred?



They do, Target, which is a large US retailer announced they were breached this week. According to AP they didn't discover it themselves, it was the CC Companies who notified them of the breach.


----------

