# The gun thread



## ChrisM

So I went to a Gun Show today.

Right as I walked in the door I seen someone selling this: 

I was like wow that is a tiny gun. The guy says ill take $100 for it... SOLD!


I also bought a bunch of ammo for the .380 and the .45 ACP I already have a bunch of .40 S&W since I have an "assault rifle" that takes it and another .40 pistol.

Others in my collections:






Edit: There used to be some Hi-points here but ya no-one wants to see that.


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## MannDude

Jemminez and two Hight Points?

People talk shit on High Points but they're cheap, made in the USA, and come with a lifetime warranty that can't be beat. Would I trust my life to one? I don't know, but I sure would love to spend time at a range to one!

Funny you posted this today because I hit up my local gun shop today to look at some XDS-9s but their price was about $50 over retail... So I played with the S&W Shield 9mm, really liked the feel of it. Price was spot on, too. Ruger LC9, meh, wasn't a huge fan even though I've already got an old Ruger pistol that I love... I wanted something more practical for daily carry than my S&W 4566, it's a great gun that will eat any ammo and has never had an issue with at the range. Easy to conceal in the winter time with heavy clothes but I wanted something... different, smaller. I was going to get the S&W shield because I love S&W but then I spotted a Khar CM9 in the case.

Khar is American made, well reviewed guns that don't get a whole lot of attention. They're double action only, no external safety (best safety is between your ears anyways)... and well, I'm taking her out to some family property in a little bit to shoot at the dirt to test fire it. I love the long, smooth trigger pull it has when dry firing it. Much smoother than my Smith and I thought it was butter.

I don't want to post photos of my other pieces, some have seen them who have expressed interest and aren't anti-gun. Miller, I hope you know you just opened a can of worms with this thread. Queue the anti-gun comments... now.

Funny, my Mom was very anti-gun, wouldn't want to be in the same room with an unloaded pistol. Well, last week she got herself a nice Sig .380. My step-father has been teaching her a bit about firearms, and she's used his Colt 1911 a little bit now and I'm proud that she has one now and knows how to properly use one. Can't wait to go out there and have her show me what she got herself. 

Queue the hate.

EDIT: Honestly, all it takes is one 50 round box of ammo to turn someone who doesn't like guns into someone who enjoys the hobby. Take your anti-gun buddy to a range, buy the ammo for them, and watch them go from scared, flenching and shaking with every trigger pull to a enjoyable smile as they put holes in paper targets, bottles, whatever. I think everyone should know how to properly use a firearm, but that's just me. I'm hoping this year I will get to spend more time at the range and work on getting better groupings. I'd competition shoot if I could, but too much time and too much money needs to be invested in getting good enough and having a dialed setup.


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## MartinD

Cued... Guns are stupid.


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Jemminez and two Hight Points?
> 
> People talk shit on High Points but they're cheap, made in the USA, and come with a lifetime warranty that can't be beat.


Yeah the Top one is a Jimenez. I do like Hi-points, my .40 assault rifle is a HI Point and i've never had an issue with it after shooting 1,000+ round through it. I have a friend that has a Hi-Point 9mm which he loves. But i've never owned a pistol made by Hi-Point before i've herd bad things and really good things about them but so far my experience has been good.


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> I don't want to post photos of my other pieces, some have seen them who have expressed interest and aren't anti-gun. Miller, I hope you know you just opened a can of worms with this thread. Queue the anti-gun comments... now.


I agree it's funny to watch the Anti-Gun people freak out. 



MartinD said:


> Cued... Guns are stupid.


You're stupid!


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## MannDude

And yes, I do agree the world would be 'better' if no guns, anywhere, ever, existed. For me, for you, for the police man or for the soldiers or the dude jackin' the 7/11 or pistol whipping you when you stop at a stop light in a city. But that's not the world we live in, they exist. Best know how to use one.


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## MartinD

No, that just perpetuates the problem. He's got one so I better have one.


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## trewq

You guys would hate it here. Guns are so heavily controlled we can't even have paintball.


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## drmike

Oh leave it to the UK revelers.

Hey mate, let's go to the pub... and then.. knives and bats...  Sure less of that than shootings in the US...

Same country that is doing what to people that actually defend themselves when being mugged?   Charging people for fighting back supposedly.

Yeah guns suck.   Don't come bothering me and mine and  you won't see what the bullets look like.

I'm pretty sure the founding fathers of the US used GUNS to kick the 'Brits asses...   UK leadership has a reason to hate guns.... might get them toppled.


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## texteditor

Gun shows are worse than guns themselves, if only for the inevitable vendors hocking Nazi memorabilia "for historical purposes" and the dudes selling hardback copies of The Turner Diaries and prepper literature



drmike said:


> I'm pretty sure the founding fathers of the US used GUNS to kick the 'Brits asses...   UK leadership has a reason to hate guns.... might get them toppled.


also to keep the slaves in line


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## texteditor

Chris Miller said:


> So I went to a Gun Show today.
> 
> Right as I walked in the door I seen someone selling this:
> 
> I was like wow that is a tiny gun. The guy says ill take $100 for it... SOLD!


damn, what's with that clip, did the previous owner have corrosive palm sweat?


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## MartinD

drmike said:


> Oh leave it to the UK revelers.
> 
> 
> Hey mate, let's go to the pub... and then.. knives and bats... Sure less of that than shootings in the US...
> 
> 
> Same country that is doing what to people that actually defend themselves when being mugged? Charging people for fighting back supposedly.
> 
> 
> Yeah guns suck. Don't come bothering me and mine and you won't see what the bullets look like.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the founding fathers of the US used GUNS to kick the 'Brits asses... UK leadership has a reason to hate guns.... might get them toppled.


I think you'll find that your 'founding fathers' were Brita, moreover, the important individuals who shaped your country, constitution and political systems were Scots.


UK leadership hates guns for the same reason the rest of the UK hates guns - there is no need for them. Real men don't need guns to feel safe either. It's an oxymoron perpetuated by morons. My opinion..and one shared by many across the globe.


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## texteditor

MannDude said:


> But that's not the world we live in, they exist. Best know how to use one.


Yeah but unless you have the perfect marksmanship of John McClane from Die Hard or live alone and completely isolated from society in the woods, you are certainly gonna cause collateral damage. Trained soldiers and police officers regularly injure/kill third parties in the vicinity of a firefight, sometimes even each other, you are deluded if you think the Average Joe would be more calm and collected than them.


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## drmike

texteditor said:


> also to keep the slaves in line


Early gun RESTRICTION laws in the US were used to disarm newly freed slaves.  



MartinD said:


> UK leadership hates guns for the same reason the rest of the UK hates guns - there is no need for them. Real men don't need guns to feel safe either. It's an oxymoron perpetuated by morons. My opinion..and one shared by many across the globe.


No need for them - guns  Really... Did your country also do away with your military, missiles, nuclear weapons, etc.?    I mean those seem much  more savage, ahem unanti-hu-manlyity.

Real men don't need guns?  Who said men?  Shouldn't  it be real people don't need guns?  Gender and guns is always amusing, because traditionally men were defenders of their families, did the hunting, etc.  Today plenty of women carry guns and should.

So, in those peaceful utopias when someone smacks you in the head or knifes you for the new i-Jamahicky, what do you do?  Yell Bobby! and hope he gets flanked with a whoopie cushion?


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## texteditor

drmike said:


> Early gun RESTRICTION laws in the US were used to disarm newly freed slaves.


I'm aware, lots of our nation's history with guns is tied directly to "fear of black folks"


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## ChrisM

texteditor said:


> damn, what's with that clip, did the previous owner have corrosive palm sweat?


I didn't notice that till you pointed it out. When looking at it in person you don't see it at all but when you look at it in a picture you can. Weird. I'll clean it and put some gun oil on it.


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## switsys

MartinD said:


> Cued... Guns are stupid.





Chris Miller said:


> I agree it's funny to watch the Anti-Gun people freak out.
> 
> You're stupid!



People with guns are stupid...


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## happel

Guns are stupid.


Americans and their circle of violence.. :|


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## MannDude

texteditor said:


> Yeah but unless you have the perfect marksmanship of John McClane from Die Hard or live alone and completely isolated from society in the woods, you are certainly gonna cause collateral damage. Trained soldiers and police officers regularly injure/kill third parties in the vicinity of a firefight, sometimes even each other, you are deluded if you think the Average Joe would be more calm and collected than them.


Cops have laughably lax requirements for firearm use. I go to the range and shoot more than what is required for a police officer for their training.. Most recreational shooters do...


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## drmike

texteditor said:


> I'm aware, lots of our nation's history with guns is tied directly to "fear of black folks"


and that's why ya'all is scared of me.  I won't go choco loco on ya'all.


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## drmike

> completely isolated from society in the woods, you are certainly gonna cause collateral damage.


hahaha

and....

this...

is why police use hollow points and so do I in handguns.

... I should explain... hollow points lack frontal solid mass... so the hit and splash basically.  nice larger hole... more trauma and likelihood of taking out something vital... in doing so they don't have habit of going through you, and the drywall and into another room and striking someone watching TV.

never mind the fact that they make a mess out of you and much likelier to kill you.


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## vRozenSch00n

Sadly, if you're in my country and you're not filthy rich and can buy out gun license, even a 5.5mm air rifle gun will get you into trouble and you will be treated as a te****ist. 

The only gun I have now is only the one that shoots some web substance.


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## raindog308

Slightly more on topic...although I am an NRA Life Member gun freak, I hate gun shows. Too much off-topic junk, stuff is overpriced, have to pay admission + parking, etc. Stopped going years ago.


I much prefer either dealing with a good local dealer or buying privately.


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## Magiobiwan

The issue with some cops not having the best accuracy is because they don't get enough training. WHY? Because money. Welcome to the world of politics.


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## ChrisM

raindog308 said:


> Slightly more on topic...although I am an NRA Life Member gun freak, I hate gun shows. Too much off-topic junk, stuff is overpriced, have to pay admission + parking, etc. Stopped going years ago.
> 
> 
> I much prefer either dealing with a good local dealer or buying privately.



NRA member here to! 

I have to agree on the prices of things you can get guns there at a pretty good price. But as for accessories and ammo the prices are outrages. There are things i've seen at gun shows that I can getting online for a 1/4 of the price even with shipping.

The one I went to today was at the Casino near my house, it's only $6 to get in and you get $5 back in free play for the casino which I am a regular visitor to.


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## drmike

Real deal gun org:

http://gunowners.org/


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## MannDude

Magiobiwan said:


> The issue with some cops not having the best accuracy is because they don't get enough training. WHY? Because money. Welcome to the world of politics.


That can't be true, because we militarize the shit out of our cops by giving them vehicles that were deployed to Afghanistan in wars, full swat attire for them to serve warrants, etc. On top of that, they get tons of free shit (individually) from shops to encourage their presence. That's why you see cops hanging out at gas stations all the time. Free coffee, free snacks, and a place to chill until they get a call to go do something. Same reason businesses give them discounts (to encourage their presence). On top of that, around here at least, they do pretty alright. They don't make doctor or lawyer money, but then again it's a job all you need a HS diploma or GED to do at minimum. But money wise, they do alright. (I understand in some cities cops get paid shit, around here, with our low cost of living, they're above average on the pay scale).

I forget what the original training consists of, but you pretty much just have to shoot a paper target enough times in the kill-zone and you're good. I forget how often you have to re-qualify. So, unless a copy is a gun enthusiast himself he may only shoot a gun in his career as a police officer _*only*_ when needed to re-qualify.

Most hobbyist like to go to the range as often as possible, or shoot in their backyard if they live in a rural area where it is safe to do so (proper backstop).

I've got my lifetime license to carry a firearm, I never have to renew it (only update my address when/if I move). My state of Indiana publishes all statistics regarding carrying licenses (which is NOT needed to own or possess a firearm, only needed to carry it on you either concealed or openly) here: http://www.in.gov/isp/2963.htm Keep in mind Indiana has about 6.5 million residents. Add the numbers, do the math and try to figure out what percentage this state alone has between legal, law abiding citizens to _carry_. Then forget that number and realize that it's not at all an accurate representation of Joe farmer down the street or Marry so-and-so who has guns legally, but just doesn't have a carry license.

What am I ranting about? I forget. Oh yeah, cops and guns. Why do people call the cops in situations where they feel that their life may be in some sort of danger? Because they want to roll the dice and see if they can survive another 15 minutes waiting for a cop to show up? No, that can't be it. Oh yeah, because cops have guns. And most cops, as mentioned above, just do the bare minimum of what is required of them to carry on the job.

I'm not knocking cops. They have a relatively boring job unless in a crime ridden city, round here most of them do paperwork after responding to mundane disturbances with the odd day of excitement. It's not a job I would want to do.


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## GIANT_CRAB

Guns don't kill people, the government does.


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## raindog308

Chris Miller said:


> I have to agree on the prices of things you can get guns there at a pretty good price. But as for accessories and ammo the prices are outrages. There are things i've seen at gun shows that I can getting online for a 1/4 of the price even with shipping.


I've never understood the economics of the gun market.  From what I've read, guns themselves are nearly zero profit, especially now that the Internet is available.  Gun dealers charge, say, $25 to handle an Internet transaction and often that's about the profit they make selling guns.  One guy told me they just mark the guns up $50.  How many is the typical shop going to sell in a month?

Ammo is probably even worse because there the competition with the Internet is a lot keener.

I assume the real money is in the accessories, the special services, customizing, high-end speciality stuff like black rifles or fancy pants birding shotguns or gunsmithing work.


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## texteditor

raindog308 said:


> I assume the real money is in the accessories, the special services, customizing, high-end speciality stuff like black rifles or fancy pants birding shotguns or gunsmithing work.


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## RLT

Cops:

60 to 90 minutes to show in this area.

Shoot one magazine once a year for qualifications. 

Notorious for lousy aim in crisis situations. We have a local case where a cop in a raid shot a girl sitting on a couch in a negligent discharge.

Reason smaller caliber ammo was adopted by most armed forces is that one out of twenty rounds fired hits the target. So have them carry more ammo to send more rounds downrange.

The entire cops and soldiers are so well trained and such perfect fighting machines is a total baseless myth perpetuated by the anti gun/ peace on earth crowds. The countries with the most draconian anti personal defense laws are the ones that have the "militias" fighting wars in the streets and war lords controlling parts of countries.

Whenever I was in a firefight my biggest fear was the over hyped gung hos that were supposed to be on my side.

One other point lets send the brits the wild dogs and coyotes that roam around here. Let them be trapped in their houses watching the packs go down the roads.


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## jarland

Nice buys!

Boo to the haters. You can't fix humanity by not buying a gun, but when you need to protect the people you love you do what you have to do. Yeah life sucks, people suck, and yeah if everyone would just do their part maybe life and people wouldn't suck, but they won't because everyone's a bunch of selfish pricks. Come down to Houston and spend a week, if you never have, and you'll agree that the best way to live out your life in peace is to make sure anyone who wants to mess with you can't. If you're willing to sacrifice yourself in favor of your faith in humanity, thumbs up from me, but it was just a few weeks ago I couldn't come home for hours because some jackass busted in an apartment across the street and shot 5 people, and this is the "good" side of town. Me not buying a gun wouldn't have stopped that, but had it been my apartment and I didn't have a gun and I watched my wife take a bullet...there's no amount of "values" or "greater good" that would comfort me, nor any of you in the same situation. It's easy to think you could watch everyone around you die and sit there with a smile on your face thinking "I didn't contribute to the problem that killed everyone I love" but I guarantee it won't be that easy if the day ever comes. If you think it won't ever come, you must not pay attention. It happens within 15 miles of me every week. Defenseless people gunned down for whatever reason some idiot felt like. I promise, doesn't matter where you live in the US, the police won't show up until it's already finished. If that's not true where you live, congrats. Anyone who walks in my door unannounced leaves in a bag. Just the way it is.

The selfish and cruelty of humanity predates guns. You could take away every gun in the world and you wouldn't do a bit of good because people are shit. If the only weapon people have are their teeth, everyone will walk around drooling blood. Humanity cannot be changed by oppression.


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## AMDbuilder

Very Nice!  The gun shows in my area definately fall in the rippoff catagory. We do have some great local gun shops on the other hand.  I have always found them very helpful, competative on pricing, and they give customers first dibs on ammo.

I know several people with close ties to law enforcement in our area, and have been told on several occasions my grouping is outstanding in comparison.  Generally the officers just want to go home when their shift ends, so making time for the range isn't as high a priority.  Lately, there have been more shootings in our area so I suspect the officers are getting more range time.

Regardless, if there was ever a question of my safety or those around me, there is no question who will be in the bag.  I hope it never comes to that, but it's prefered to the alternative.


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## blergh

I find it lulzy that all the pro-gun people in here are NRA members, what gives?


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## Aldryic C'boas

blergh said:


> I find it lulzy that all the pro-gun people in here are NRA members, what gives?


The NRA is one of the few groups actively fighting for gun rights.  Those of us that have firearms and intend to keep them typically tend to support an organization that tries to prevent our weapons being taken from us.  You don't have to personally agree with the NRA philosophies to help support that.


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## Nick_A

Oh man, this thread. I have a feeling that anything said to advocate for responsible gun ownership here would just spark fruitless debate, so I'm just going to mention that I enjoy guns and have a nice collection started.

I'm also a Ruger fanboy 

Edit: It's also interesting to see who else shares this particular interest.


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## jarland

blergh said:


> I find it lulzy that all the pro-gun people in here are NRA members, what gives?


I am? Pretty sure I would remember that


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## MannDude

jarland said:


> I am? Pretty sure I would remember that


Don't. I'm an NRA member but they seem to spend more time and money mailing their members twice a week and calling them up asking for more. I probably won't renew my membership. There are other, better organizations (IMO) that utilize their funds better.


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## BaconFart

MannDude said:


> Don't. I'm an NRA member but they seem to spend more time and money mailing their members twice a week and calling them up asking for more. I probably won't renew my membership. There are other, better organizations (IMO) that utilize their funds better.


Yeah, I'm in the same boat. They are not the best gun rights organization out there but sadly they have the biggest voice. I've always been a fan of GOA - gunowners.org. They seem to be gaining momentum and I don't constantly get harassed for more money in return for a sticker and a stupid bag.


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## Damian




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## MannDude

Next thing to acquire is an AR lower so I can start building up one of those. Need to find a good source on titanium or polished/raw AR lowers and barrels so the final product when I get done building it won't be your run-of-the-mill 'scary black gun', and instead will look like:



I love the look of the above rife and am going to model my own build off it's appearance. Though ideally I'll build it to not be tacti-cool and build it for long-range plinking.


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## Damian

MannDude said:


> and build it for long-range plinking.


I much prefer rifles and long-range shooting to pistols and shotguns and other close weapons.


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## Nick_A

@MannDude Get a nice Harris bipod instead of that hybrid thing. I forget the company, but someone out there makes a nice quick release adapter for the Picatinny rail that allows you to attach or detach a good Harris on the fly. Thought I had a picture of mine but can't find it.


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## MannDude

Damian said:


> I much prefer rifles and long-range shooting to pistols and shotguns and other close weapons.


Not bad!

I've got a range near me with a lane that can accommodate targets up to 300yards, though I only go their with pistols. Years ago, in the Nevada desert I'd go to this makeshift range out there when I lived there. There would be these 'T' posts setup, with metal targets hanging off each arm of the T. There is nothing more rewarding than pulling a trigger and waiting a moment and hearing that, 'Ping!' after the initial blast. Though even those weren't that far away, maybe 250 yards max.

I don't have any proper long-rifles right now. All I really want is a 10-22 for cheap plinking and an AR15 with a long barrel (26" or so) for long distances target shooting or to be used hunting if I ever get around to going to deer hunting with family members.


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## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> @MannDude Get a nice Harris bipod instead of that hybrid thing. I forget the company, but someone out there makes a nice quick release adapter for the Picatinny rail that allows you to attach or detach a good Harris on the fly. Thought I had a picture of mine but can't find it.


The image was more of a representation of the _look_ I was after with the raw lower and barrel as opposed to represent parts/setup. 

EDIT: I lied, I really want to pick up a Mosin Nagant too.


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## Francisco

I wish ranges were more common in Canada.

The few times I went shooting (once in Vegas, once in Texas), it was a hell of a lot of fun.

I could trailer park boys it in the back woods but eh...

Francisco


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## MannDude

Francisco said:


> I could trailer park boys it in the back woods but eh...










/offtopic They're doing Season 8 right now.


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## Nick_A

This thread needs more pics.


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## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> This thread needs more pics.


Alright then. 

From top to bottom: Ruger Standard (1971, I believe. ), Kahr CM9, and Smith & Wesson 4566TSW.



The Ruger is actually my favorite to shoot. 22LR ammo is cheap, so it doesn't hurt the wallet to shoot at the range and even though it's just black iron sights, probably the one I am most accurate with. The Kahr is new and will be broken in soon. Got some Remington, American Eagle, Federal and Hornady ammo with it to see if she has a preference and what fires best out her. Need to clock some range time in soon.

The Smith is my baby and was my birthday present to myself last year. This thing has run flawlessly with all types of ammo. I've only had one fail to fire with it, and it was a dud round from a box of cheap imported dirty ammo. Pulled the trigger... click. Ejected the round, saw that the primer was hit with the firing pin... re-chambered it, same deal. Threw the round away. It's a bad picture because it looks better after a good cleaning and digital touch-up, but this thing is a beast. Too bad .45 ammo is expensive... in an ideal life I'd be putting a couple hundred rounds down range a week with this bad boy. I need to buy land out in the country and start reloading. 

EDIT: Also, for Breaking Bad fans: http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_4566TSW


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## Magiobiwan

My family had a Ruger like that one before. Unfortunately it was my Grandpa's and it ended up going to a member of the extended family. Damn that was a fun gun to shoot. I'm considering a Glock (once I'm 21 at least) because they're good guns. Of course, money is nice. Gotta support my VPSaholism too!


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## Francisco

> /offtopic They're doing Season 8 right now.


That's the most on topic comment i've seen in this thread.



Francisco


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## MannDude

Magiobiwan said:


> My family had a Ruger like that one before. Unfortunately it was my Grandpa's and it ended up going to a member of the extended family. Damn that was a fun gun to shoot. I'm considering a Glock (once I'm 21 at least) because they're good guns. Of course, money is nice. Gotta support my VPSaholism too!


Never owned a Glock, but you can't go wrong with them. You'll love these "Glock Torture Test" videos on YouTube!

http://youtu.be/oSbepeXwDqE

http://youtu.be/TrpPg9lI4lE

http://youtu.be/XKFBC60LoMY

http://youtu.be/sb9QsYyO0I0

http://youtu.be/MwCl7X6CtSU

He has tons of these, all comical. There are tons of serious torture test reviews on YouTube as well


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## MannDude

ALSO subscribe to hickhok45 on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45

This dude has some of the best gun reviews, he's an excellent shooter with a great backyard range and is known to make some comedic videos from time to time too.


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## ChrisM

Here is a pic I took last summer after I went on a week long gun purchasing bender. ^^

I posted this in the Black Friday thread but herean AR I bought at a gun shop on Black friday at midnight.





I have Dozen more guns that I need to take out of my safe and take pics of.


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Don't. I'm an NRA member but they seem to spend more time and money mailing their members twice a week and calling them up asking for more. I probably won't renew my membership. There are other, better organizations (IMO) that utilize their funds better.



I get things a couple times a month I only got a call once at like 10:30pm on a Friday and I was lit and ended up renewing for 5 years. 

But I will look into that other gun rights group that was posted here. That I never herd of before.


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> /offtopic They're doing Season 8 right now.





Francisco said:


> That's the most on topic comment i've seen in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Francisco



I need to watch that sometime. I still have yet to see it.


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## MannDude

You need to get a solid safe Miller.

I need to get a heavy ass safe that I can mount to my wall/floor to keep it secured down. Need to start stacking my guns, ammo and silver in it


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> You need to get a solid safe Miller.
> 
> I need to get a heavy ass safe that I can mount to my wall/floor to keep it secured down. Need to start stacking my guns, ammo and silver in it



I do! My safe is in my garage and weighs about 900 lbs and has 4ft bolts bolting it to the ground. 

I can fit about 3 of me in it and still have room for guns. 

I will post a pic in the morning.


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## Nick

So jealous! Strict gun laws over here in NZ but tthankfully I use a few weapons on a regular basis including a Sig Sauer, IW Steyr and a very nice LSW


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## AMDbuilder

MannDude said:


> Never owned a Glock, but you can't go wrong with them. You'll love these "Glock Torture Test" videos on YouTube!


They are very solid options, and it's hard to beat the simplicity!  Their commercials aren't half bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU3fIzzqQKc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1cZdvJUf-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdscXeNa20


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## MannDude

Nick said:


> So jealous! Strict gun laws over here in NZ but tthankfully I use a few weapons on a regular basis including a Sig Sauer, IW Steyr and a very nice LSW


Being in the Army you still probably get some pretty awesome stuff to train with.


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## Nick_A

Don't get a Glock, everyone has a Glock...


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## Nick

MannDude said:


> Being in the Army you still probably get some pretty awesome stuff to train with.


I must say that posting a grenade in a hole right next to where I was lying is near the top of the list...


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## ChrisM

I just realized I never posted my Gun Safe like I said I would.

Here it is:



Not all my guns are in here some are stashed in Certain locations around my house:


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## Nick

Nice! Is it fine for you guys to store ammunition and weapons in the same safe?


----------



## MannDude

Nick said:


> Nice! Is it fine for you guys to store ammunition and weapons in the same safe?


Of course. This is America. I've got hundreds of rounds on a shelf in the open and keep my magazines loaded and one in the chamber on my pistols (except for my target pistol).

Before people tell me how irresponsible that is, I live alone, no kids, etc. The best 'safety' on a gun is between your ears (your brain).

That's a nice looking safe Miller. I need to get one too, but they're pretty expensive for anything halfway decent. I need something that is fireproof, I'm more worried about a fire than I am someone coming in and stealing them.


----------



## ChrisM

Nick said:


> Nice! Is it fine for you guys to store ammunition and weapons in the same safe?


Yeah it is, most of the guns you see in there are loaded.  I should setup my shelves and put my ammo in there sometime soon. I got all my ammo in stored in cabinet in my bedroom and if my house ever caught fire and my ammo started going off. The neighborhood would look like swiss cheese. 



MannDude said:


> That's a nice looking safe Miller. I need to get one too, but they're pretty expensive for anything halfway decent. I need something that is fireproof, I'm more worried about a fire than I am someone coming in and stealing them.


I got the safe on blackfriday the same day as my AR but it took a couple weeks to come in. They had it marked down to $599 and the original price of the safe was $999.


----------



## Nick_A

Tractor Supply had some solid deals on safes on Black Friday. Got one then as well.


----------



## William

Something a bit.... older? 



One full shot


----------



## ChrisM

William said:


> Something a bit.... older?


@William I have that same gun just a year newer.


----------



## William

Quite common in europe, though they decided to confiscate my ammo for it as war ammunition so eh, weird.


----------



## ChrisM

William said:


> Quite common in europe, though they decided to confiscate my ammo for it as war ammunition so eh, weird.


That's horrible that they would confiscate it. When hearing things like that I am glad I live in the US.


----------



## MannDude

Hell yeah at those Mosin Nagants. They mass produced those like crazy, can still buy them for $150~ around here depending on condition. I shot one about 5 years ago a few times, quite accurate. I'd like to have one just to have, whether it be a wall accessory or something I'd plink targets with at the long range, I don't know.

I got to break in my new Kahr over the weekend. This thing is a pleasure to fire. Was afraid that it's small size and low-weight would make it a snappy little bastard, but it was quite manageable. The long, smooth DAO trigger will take a little bit to get used to but I was warming up to it by the time I was done for the day. Kahr recommends a 200 rounds break in period, and although I brought more than enough ammo to do that and more I got distracted by wanting to 'John Wayne the shit out of those cans' (as my buddy put it) with my 45 as I was on fire with it, but when the sun started to get low and it was getting dark in the woods we called it quits when I had only put 110~ down the pipe of the Kahr. Brand new, no failures. Before I took it out I did a cleaning as they don't clean them between the factory and the shop, polished the feed ramp and probably racked the slide 500+ times to loosen it up a bit. These things are tight as hell direct from the factory.

So far, so good. I'm very impressed with it. The sights, if you've never used a Kahr before are unique... sort of how Glock has their unique sights as well. I'm not for sure if I like them yet or not or if I want to replace them... but they're a tad different.



My ONLY complaint about my Kahr, and it's a known thing that has been discussed time and time again is the non-flush magazines. Kahr claims they've not received enough demand to alter the manufacturing of the magazines to make them about 1/8" shorter to make them fit flush with the bottom of the grip. It doesn't impact performance or reliability, it's just... not as visually pleasing as one would want. I have a couple new factory 7 round magazines on their way (stock is 6 round) that include a pinky extension and supposedly fit flusher. They'll be a great addition next time I go to the range.



Still snowy and cold here. I'll be able to write a better 'review' after it warms up a bit. So far, so good. Wasn't for sure if I wanted to keep her, but now I think I want to. Kahr is an American made brand with a good reputation. I may get bored eventually and mod this a bit to 'fix' the flush-fit magazine 'issue' (It's not an issue, really) and I may stiple the frame in a few areas for increased grip. We'll see.


----------



## MannDude

Also, for those of you with your carry permit, license, or whatever your state tries to _sell_ you so you can utilize your 2nd amendment right to physically carry your firearm (Unless you live in a Constitutional Carry state), you may wish to look into N82 Tactical holsters. Holy hell, they're comfortable.

The backing is soft suede, the front is quality leather... and in between? (Yes, in between) Neoprene padding. The stuff they make wet suits out of. Each one is handcrafted in North Carolina (or South Carolina, I forget) and comes with a lifetime warranty. I got one because of all the hype of them being 'the most comfortable IWB holster on the market', yadda yadda. Gotta say, pretty damn comfortable.

https://n82tactical.com/


----------



## clarity

What version do you have? Professional?

I have a Kahr CW40. It is a good, dependable device.


----------



## MannDude

DifferentOpinionsNotWanted said:


> What version do you have? Professional?
> 
> I have a Kahr CW40. It is a good, dependable device.


I picked up the CM9, which was about $300 cheaper than the PM9 which is the exact same gun. The different between the two is the slide, the CM9 has less machining and the logo and model number are roll-marked onto it. The PM9 is a bit more sleek with more machining and laser etching (I believe). The CM9 uses traditional polygonal rifling in the barrel, the PM9 uses more of a match grade rifling. I also believe the CM9 has a forged slide stop and the PM9's is machined. That and the PM9 comes with two factory magazines and the CM9 with one. Spec wise, both the same and can swap parts between the two.

At some point down the road I may buy a PM9 slide direct from Kahr with night-sights already installed, so then I'll technically have a hybrid of the two. Being my first Kahr I didn't want to break the bank so I just got the cheaper of the two models that the LGS had.


----------



## MannDude

Update: Going to send my Kahr back to the manufacturer to have them inspect it. Had some slight concern with the polymer wear. They're picking it up at their expense and will fix it or replace it and mail it back to my door.

Meanwhile... looks like I have a new project to work on!



That arrived yesterday. A few hours later...



Got a stock coming in the mail this week, nothing fancy. Didn't realize some stocks are crazy expensive! Figured I'd build an AR instead of buying one outright. This way it's not the large financial burden of throwing down a lot of cash for a factory complete AR that thousands of others have the exact one of. So this is my first gunsmithing project, though when I get my Kahr back from the factory I'm making some minor adjustments to it as well. This way I learn something new, and get to build something unique and custom that only I have (unless of course someone else does a build with the exact same parts I have). Probably be 2 or 3 months before I have a finished project... maybe less if I skimp on cost and learning process by buying a complete upper. CheaperThanDirt.com has some low cost uppers but I'm not even sure if I want to buy a complete one yet or not. 

Hoping to spend a lot more time at the range this year. I suck at golf so the shooting range is the range I prefer


----------



## WSWD

Nick_A said:


> Don't get a Glock, everyone has a Glock...


Even more of a reason to get one.  Carry my Glock 21SF and would trust my life with it.  It just plain works...every single time I use it.


----------



## MannDude

WSWD said:


> Even more of a reason to get one.  Carry my Glock 21SF and would trust my life with it.  It just plain works...every single time I use it.


I'm thinking of getting a Glock range gun in the future. If they had a single stack 9mm I'd likely consider that for carry, though I think it'll be a couple more years after the excitement of their new Glock 42 singlestack .380 wears off. I like the feel of a Glock 19 (cop who did my background check for my carry license let me hold his, haha) and would love a Glock 34 for the range.

If not a Glock, then likely a CZ. It's hard to find anything bad written about either brand.


----------



## VPSCorey

I picked up a 1907 Swiss Mauser for 50 at a garage sale.  Lady did not know what she was selling.

It's the shorter cav style one, and probably was ceremonial because all the parts serial #'s match which is pretty awesome.  Needs a new stock, but that's not a biggie.  Usually the serials never match because they'd just toss all the parts in piles and put them back together after the piles were cleaned.  (Wartime).


----------



## texteditor

MannDude said:


> Hell yeah at those Mosin Nagants. They mass produced those like crazy, can still buy them for $150~ around here depending on condition. I shot one about 5 years ago a few times, quite accurate. I'd like to have one just to have, whether it be a wall accessory or something I'd plink targets with at the long range, I don't know.


Allegedly*, according to guys I worked with at my last job, they can be had for as low as $50 at gun shows in Indiana, I'm guessing from people who bought them en masse and had to sort out the war-worn ones.

I've never been big on guns but a Mosin Nagant would be cool to have for range shooting, I'd think.


----------



## SPINIKR-RO

You can definately find Mosins for 50-250 rage depending on supply/demand. It surprising just how many there are.

Check ArmsList for your city http://www.armslist.com/


----------



## ThePrimeHost

How did I miss this thread!?!?!  

I tend to find a mixure of great deals and "meh" at gun shows. I just went to a local show last weekend too. Found a local ammo manufacturer with great prices on 9mm ammo in Bryan, TX. They had boxes of 50x 9mm for $17.95 or so.

www.OldGloryAmmo.com. (yikes - looks like their website needs some work!)

This is what I have:







It has a rotating barrel for accuracy. It's a sweet little 9mm.


----------



## BeastVM_Aaron

I hate guns, they are ridicilous.


----------



## ChrisM

BeastVM_Aaron said:


> I hate guns, they are ridicilous.


@BeastVM_Aaron

Hi Aaron,

Sorry to hear that. May I ask why do you dislike guns?


----------



## William

I wish pump action would be legal in Austria for shotguns (they are on the same schedule as full autos...), even with ejector this quite hurts aftert some 100 rounds 

Also, what does .22lr in the US cost? Remington 100 pack (the "gold" plated ones) are  ~12EUR here - Shotgun ammo is incredible cheap though. (25 pack 00 ~10EUR)


----------



## MannDude

William said:


> I wish pump action would be legal in Austria for shotguns (they are on the same schedule as full autos...), even with ejector this quite hurts aftert some 100 rounds
> 
> Also, what does .22lr in the US cost? Remington 100 pack (the "gold" plated ones) are  ~12EUR here - Shotgun ammo is incredible cheap though. (25 pack 00 ~10EUR)


Pump actions are illegal there? Crazy. The sound of a pump action shotgun being racked in itself is almost as good of a deterrent to crime than the gun itself. If you heard your doorknob to your city apartment rattling at 2AM, and whoever it is on the outside heard that "ch-chhh" sound of the shotgun being 'pumped', they'd piss their pants and turn around. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Gz-A-XO8w

22LR is hard to find now. Lot of ammo hoarders due to random scares of new regulations. A brick of 22LR (500 rds) is upward of $50 in some places. Still cheap compared to other calibers, though harder to find nowadays. I've not bought 22LR in years. I had around 1,000rds laying around and probably down to a few hundred now. I've got an old 22LR pistol that I always take to the range to plink with, but luckily haven't had to scour shops for ammo. Granted, I get most my ammo from Wal-Mart anyway, and they're always out of it. (Though they generally have all the other common pistol calibers and hunting rounds in stock)

It's an expensive hobby. I save all my brass casings so I can eventually clean them up and reload them, but I've not yet got the setup. Afterwards my ammo cost will be cut in almost half. Most of the casings can be reused time and time again.


----------



## peterw

I love gun videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzX_F2gj-Xs


----------



## texteditor

peterw said:


> I love gun videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzX_F2gj-Xs


Agreed.

This is one of the most terrifying yet is not as dumb as some of those accidents, but here is what happens when you fail to account for a high-speed high-caliber round's ability to ricochet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc


----------



## Neo

Crazy Amercians, everyone is purchasing weapons and when you get on some private area you get bulles.

Probably just a cliché, i am prepared for shitstorm


----------



## BeastVM_Aaron

Chris Miller said:


> @BeastVM_Aaron
> 
> Hi Aaron,
> 
> Sorry to hear that. May I ask why do you dislike guns?


Hey Chris,

Because some people killing animals or people with them.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

The tool used is irrelevant.  The reasoning and motivation should be what concerns you.


----------



## MannDude

BeastVM_Aaron said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> Because some people killing animals or people with them.


In America:

Number of deaths for leading causes of death


Heart disease: 597,689
Cancer: 574,743
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

I suppose some of those suicides are certainly with guns, though if you're depressed enough to put a barrel of a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger you'd be depressed enough to just swallow a bottle of pills or keep your car running in a closed space or dive off a tall building or something.

In fact, violent crimes in America have been on a steady decline over the past couple decades. Gun ownership has been on an increase, however. Violent people are violent with or without guns.






It could be worse.

And hunting, well, people are always going to hunt. I'd much rather shoot and kill a deer that's lived a good life in the woods, frolicking around, watching the sun rise and sun set and all that jazz than some animal that was raised in a factory farm, pumped full of chemicals and steroids to make it grow in a confined, lightless space.


----------



## BeastVM_Aaron

MannDude said:


> In America:
> 
> Number of deaths for leading causes of death
> 
> 
> Heart disease: 597,689
> Cancer: 574,743
> Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
> Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
> Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
> Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
> Diabetes: 69,071
> Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
> Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
> Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
> 
> I suppose some of those suicides are certainly with guns, though if you're depressed enough to put a barrel of a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger you'd be depressed enough to just swallow a bottle of pills or keep your car running in a closed space or dive off a tall building or something.
> 
> In fact, violent crimes in America have been on a steady decline over the past couple decades. Gun ownership has been on an increase, however. Violent people are violent with or without guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It could be worse.
> 
> And hunting, well, people are always going to hunt. I'd much rather shoot and kill a deer that's lived a good life in the woods, frolicking around, watching the sun rise and sun set and all that jazz than some animal that was raised in a factory farm, pumped full of chemicals and steroids to make it grow in a confined, lightless space.




I'm not said this for U.S only.

I said some people but it's fine if you protect yourself from animals or things like that.


----------



## ChrisM

Having some fun with the AR and my Google Glass. *Note to self: Lookup new collapsable stocks online. ﻿


----------



## MannDude

Sweet video @Chris Miller. Is the camera on your Google Glass that far offset or are you aiming with your left eye? Next time I go to the range I'll strap my 1080p Mobius action camera (basically a GoPro) on my rife for some neat POV shots.

I don't know if I have actually posted anything from my collection or not. Below is my AR I built earlier this year (already want to build another one as this one was fun and rewarding to build) and my recently updated Kahr which is my daily carry piece.





Sadly the range closest to me has been closed all year for maintenance but it _should_ re-open next month. So I can finally get some range time in at a proper range. Also going to soon become a member at a gun club that has a nice private outdoor range that is also sort of near me. I've never been as membership is required, but they have a 500 yard range whereas the public one I go to only has a 200 yard range... so I'll probably join after I get my AR sighted in properly and getting good groups at 200 yards first.



I recently decided to stipple my CM9. Originally I had some Talon ruberized grips on there but removed them when I made the decision that I have no intention of getting rid of this piece. I don't ever plan on re-selling it, so I decided to try my hand at stippling it. It turned out alright. Stippling below the slide is for my thumb to help with keeping the muzzle flip to a minimum and the rest is just for increased texture/grip. I added the Hogue grip sleeve which increases the width a bit as it has palm swells and replaced the floorplate of the stock 6 round magazines with the Pierce grip extensions and stippled that as well. It's a now a very comfortable and practical daily carry piece. It feels great in the hand now despite it's small size and has never given me any trouble with it at the range. I didn't like it's size originally but it's a lot easier to manage now than it's factory setup and I love that a pair of jeans and a t-shirt is all that is needed to conceal carry it either in my N8^2 IWB holster or my more commonly used Shepherd IWB holster. 

In the cooler months I prefer to carry my S&W 4566TSW since I'm usually wearing a jacket or a coat or long sleeves, it's a little harder to conceal in the warmth of the summer unless I change my dressing style dramatically. (Which right now is mainly just jeans or shorts and t-shirts or button up dress shirts)

Next item on the list for me is either going to be a nice revolver with minimum of a 5" barrel, but more likely 7" for some target shooting or a shotgun that can serve double duty as a hunting rifle and for shooting some clay at the range. 

I really wish I had some land out in the country so I can build a makeshift range in the backyard. Would be so much fun!


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Sweet video @Chris Miller. Is the camera on your Google Glass that far offset or are you aiming with your left eye?


@MannDude I'm loving your AR!  I shoot with my right eye, the camera on my google glass is ~inch right of my right eye so it just makes it look weird.


----------



## drmike

BeastVM_Aaron said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> Because some people killing animals or people with them.


Killing is part of the grand recycling plan.   If you didn't kill something, you would starve my friend.  Take it from a veghead.

When it comes to Leroy the Crackhead vs. my family and their safety, the pump shotgun does well with Leroy and his crack super powers.   If you want to Bruce Lee style chop him down like a mighty Redwood, by all means, bad ass, have it.  I mean I can handle myself and keep my own, but the last thing I want to deal with is some thugs whacked out and juiced up.  Humans, like all other animals are capable of some amazing feats when operating under distress.

And a reminder, I've been ghetto style sabotaged, shot in the spine and left for dead.  So guns aren't my friend.  I am realist,   I keep loaded and ready to kill lions, when and if such requires my special attention.


----------



## tonyg

drmike said:


> Killing is part of the grand recycling plan.   If you didn't kill something, you would starve my friend.  Take it from a veghead.


One thing is killing for food, to feed yourself and family. Another is killing for "sport".

In today's society there is no need to kill for "sport" (at least in developed countries).

We are at a point in civilized society that we need to care and respect our fellow neighbors on this blue planet.


----------



## MannDude

tonyg said:


> One thing is killing for food, to feed yourself and family. Another is killing for "sport".
> 
> In today's society there is no need to kill for "sport" (at least in developed countries).
> 
> We are at a point in civilized society that we need to care and respect our fellow neighbors on this blue planet.


I agree that killing for 'sport' is a bit whack. I don't want to kill a deer just to leave it's body behind in the field so I can hang it's head on my wall. But at the same time, I'd rather kill a turkey in the wild and eat it as opposed to buying turkey from the store.

Factory farms are horrendous. Animals pumped with awful things to alter their flavor and keep them alive in such horrible conditions. If PETA wasn't so crazy i'd probably stand behind them in that I greatly dislike the practice of many factory farms. I'd rather eat something fresh. Plus, I feel like every man should have at hunted at least once. I've actually only been rabbit and turkey hunting, and the meat was great. The turkey especially. From the field, to the grill, to my stomach in about 3 hours. By far the best tasting turkey I've ever had. Was a healthy animal, ate mostly organic corn feed as it was often lurking a property I worked on that actually provided refuge for migratory birds like geese, ducks and waterfowls. These turkeys were a nuisance and scaring off the birds we were providing refuge for and eating their food. 

Plus, Wal-Mart or any local grocery store doesn't sell deer jerky or deer salami.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Can't get gator meat at a grocer.

Well... not a Wal-Mart/etc.  I'll give excess meat to a local mom'n'pop, since they'll do the skinning and cut me some sausage from it.  Makes for a damn good sammich.


----------



## William

*refreshed thread*

If someone is interested i did an evaluation of Austrian gun laws some time ago (still all actual) - IIRC the only description in the Web (The wikipedia entry is from myself, but it has not much info as i can't cite myself or my sources which are persons, not books)

https://rdns.im/gun-laws-in-austria



Code:


 Let me start with saying that the gun/weapon laws in Austria are pretty relaxed compared to most of the EU still.
I am not a lawyer and this is no legal advice, i do not guarantee that all is correct however i ensure you i tried my best to compile and verify it.

Although not guns i decided to include knives as well in this article as the Austrian law is different than in most EU countries as well, both due to history in hunting and general acceptance in the population.

Knifes are sorted into 2 categorys:
– Knifes designed as weapon
– Knifes designed as “everyday objects”

Of course this is hard to distinguish as most knives can be used as weapon and as “everyday object”, however in reality this has no influence:
Knifes, regardless if Weapon or “everyday object” can be bought, owned and carried in public (both concealed and unconcealed) by any person over 18
with no “weapon ban” (civil instead of military service as example). Unlike in Germany and Italy the size of the knife and it’s mechanism do not matter in Austria – OTF knifes, Switchblades, double side sharpened, Automatic knifes, swords, machetes etc. – are all legal to buy, own and carry with no restrictions.
In the more rural areas it is not uncommon that many carry a Swiss knife (“Schweizermesser”) or a Leatherman/toolkit. I usually carry an OTF knive.
Open carry of swords or guns (restricted or not) even if permitted is however not recommended in cities as the police can still charge/ticket/annoy for “public disturbance”.

Airsoft is popular in Austria, in particular with younger people. Unlike in Germany there are no restrictions on attachments (ex. Lasers) and no full-auto ban.
They are regardless of system (gas, electric, manual etc.) not regarded as weapon but as “firearms related products” and restricted to age 18 and over.
Airsoft toys with less than 0.07 joule are not age restricted – This does not apply if gas operated.

Air rifles follow the Airsoft laws and are sold to anyone 18 or over if less than (including) 6mm caliber, else they are category C weapons.

Gas guns and starting pistols are legal to buy, own and carry concealed and open (with no permit) in all systems (revolver, semi automatic, full automatic etc.) for anyone over 18. No registration or wait time is required. They are widely available, anonymously, in weapons stores (which tend to be either in city centers or shipping centers in Austria).

Austrian firearm law is based on 3 (formerly 4) categories which group firearms based on technology:

-
Category A guns are illegal to own unless a permit is issued (very rare, usually only to reputed collectors, politicians and diplomatic staff as well as some security companies).
It includes (due to a shooting ~40(?) years ago) all pumpguns (“Vorderschaftrepetierflinten”, German for Pumpgun which means only smooth-barrel pump-action operated guns) and further fully automatic rifles, silencers and concealed weapons (ex: gun in umbrella).
Some heavy calibers (.50 BMG as example) are in this category as well, which means all guns in this calibers are automatically category A, otherwise some would be category C/B and could be bought with a B permit.
It is nearly impossible to obtain a permit for category A weapons except for grandfathered pumpguns which are required to be turned to the authorities in case the owner dies (no inheritance right, no compensation), these cannot be sold privately either.
Due to a loophole (which in reality is prety much intended) category A weapons owned by a category A permit owner can be operated by non-permit owners on a police approved/registered range which can be acquired easily in most states.

-
Category B guns are handguns and semi automatic weapons (both rifles and shotguns, semi automatic shotguns with pump action backup are category A).

This weapons are legal to own with a permit (“Waffenbesitzkarte”, Weapon ownership card).
A permit can be acquired by anyone 21 (18 with government agreement, rare in most states) and over, EU citizen (was required to be changed, discrimination laws), obligatory military service fulfilled or deemed unfit (but not civil service (“Zivildienst”) which automatically results in a weapons ban for 10years (formerly 15, ban now is often reduced/removed on request for cat. C), no previous weapons ban, by providing a reason (“self defense” is a valid reason which requires no more background information) and passing a psychological examination by a doctor of his choice.

The police then verifies the security of the future gun storage which must be “secure” (yes, that is pretty much the law.), generally a small safe or any other securely lockable box/closet is sufficient.
Unlike in Germany there is no requirement to store ammo and guns in different enclosements (or unloaded) and no safe/room standard certification is required. This security check-up is repeated all 5years. Most safes for sale are German editions and thus are certified.
After a waiting time (usually between 1 and 8 weeks) a permit of usually 2 spaces in granted, which entitle the holder to buy/own 2 category B guns.

Private sales are not subject to former verification of validity of WBK/WP (no liability unless very negligient), stores do not online verify WBK/WP owners (yet).

If required the permit can be extended to more spaces indefinitely, however self defense is not regarded as valid reason in most cases (depends on state/county) and a detailed explanation can be requested by the authorities.
For example a collector could be questioned about the history of his collection or a sport shooter could be asked to provide result lists.
It is rather common to appeal decisions and it is also rather common that negative ones are invalidated in that case.

Available firearms are limited by federal approval, most rifles with a military/full automatic (design) base are required to be redesigned to make conversions to full automatic entirely impossible.

-
Category C guns are rifles (all rifles over 90cm lenght/45cm barrel and not semi automatic) and shotguns (only break action) and by far the most interesting rifles for the average Austrian!
Unlike in nearly all of Europe these are legal to own for anyone over 18, EU citizen, obligatory military service fulfilled or deemed unfit with an address and registration (ZMR, our ID number system) in Austria, only a basic background check must be passed.

Private sales need to be registered at a gunsmith up to 6 weeks after the sale, this data is stored in a central government database since 1st October 2012.
Before this date a registration at private sales was not required and stores only registered in their own systems with no centralization (“Waffenbuch”, weapons book, often really a hardcopy book).
When bought in-store the registration is usually included in the price and will be done on-site along with the usual background check. For external C weapons it is usually 15EUR, B 25EUR.

Storage must be secured, in a single person enviroment no special storage is required, same is applicable if the other persons are legally able to own category C weapons.
Currently a closet with a lock is sufficient, the storage is not verified by the police as with category B.
This heavily depends on county – I was fined for having guns ‘insecure’ in a secondary lockable room (my bedroom) while living alone.
There is a 3day waiting period for the background check unless the buyer has a category A/B permit or a hunting license, this does not apply to private sales.

-
The former category D was merged with category C at the 1st October 2012 due to the law change implementing the central category C register, it included shotguns (break action only) with smooth barrel and required age 18 or over, a background check as well as 3day waiting period but no registration.

Old unregistered category D weapons are not grandfathered and required to be registered, otherwise the owner might be fined/prosecuted when found – currently (11.2013) this seems to be not enforced in any state, generally police will recommend to register the weapon only.

For the last part let’s get to: Carry & Ammo!

Handgun ammo as well as some specific rifle ammo requires a A/B permit or a hunting license to buy in store, private sale is legal between 2 permit holders only (except police approved shooting areas).
If one stores more than 20000 rounds of any caliber a notice is required to the state police – Storage is possibly verified in this case, a further notice is required each 20k more rounds.
Other unrestricted private and store ammo sales are not registered or subject to ID check (other than age verification), no amount restrictions are in place.
A store may report suspicious purchases to the police, however this has no legal difference in case of illegal usage so it is usually not common.

By default concealed and open carry of A/B/C firearms is legal at home and work only, shooting at home is legal if it is made sure that no projectile can leave the area (basement for example), handling of category A/B firearms is illegal for anyone without a permit unless on a police approved range (this ‘certification’ can be obtained for home shooting areas as well in most states).

Outside work/home carry of weapons other than starting/gas guns and airsoft weapons requires a permit (“Waffenpass”, Weapons passport), carry permits require a reason (self defense is generally not accepted unless there is a real verified threat).
The permit requires no category A/B license and automatically also entitles to ownership of the weapon or another spot for this A/B weapon, storage requirements for category A/B weapons are the same as for a category B permit.
It depends on the state/county how hard it is to obtain a permit, generally Vienna and Vorarlberg are very hard, Niederösterreich (Lower Austria) and Steiermark (Styria) are seen as more easy.
It is also possible to obtain a carry permit for work reasons (as guard for example), these are usually restricted to the worktime and easier to obtain with employer recommendation.

Hunters with a hunting permit automatically have the right to carry on their (or the legally used) hunting area.

Sources:
Austrian law books
IWOE.at


----------



## Nick_A

Just picked this up the other day:


----------



## ChrisM

Nick_A said:


> Just picked this up the other day:


Lookin Good!


----------



## Nick_A

Chris Miller said:


> Lookin Good!


Yes, I take back ;_;

I was torn between the Ruger SR9 and the Glock 17, but the G17 won out. Wanted something to stick a light on other than my AR.


----------



## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Just picked this up the other day:


Very nice. I've actually been thinking of getting a Glock 34 for range practice. I like Glocks grip angle. It seems to be more profound than others and just feels good in the hand, or atleast I thought so the only time I've had the opportunity to hold one. (Which was comically a police officer's Glock 19 while I was getting my background check ran for my lifetime carry license).

Though, before I get any more pistols I need to expand and get another rifle. More than likely going to get a decent capacity 12ga shotgun. Something practical for both protecting the castle and shooting clay out at the range. After that... then, gosh. IDK. 

Let us know how that Glock shoots.


----------



## Nick_A

Shotgun and .308 are next on the list for me.

The G17 shoots great as expected. Nice, short trigger pull, smooth action. Definitely an upgrade over the P95 (although the P95 is still solid).


----------



## MannDude

YES!

The shooting range, that has been closed basically all year re-opened today. Going tomorrow.

25, 35, 50, and 200 yard range. Finally going to get to properly sight my AR in. Finally get to make more room in my safe by firing the ammo I've been acquiring. Gonna be a good day tomorrow!


----------



## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Shotgun and .308 are next on the list for me.
> 
> The G17 shoots great as expected. Nice, short trigger pull, smooth action. Definitely an upgrade over the P95 (although the P95 is still solid).


I sort of want to build a new AR already... but in .308 

I also wouldn't mind something like a Mossberg 500. Not a cheap cheap shotgun, not an expensive one. They seem pretty well reviewed as a good, all around shotgun.

A wheel gun, too. Ah god. I used to not even consider a revolver. I thought they were revolting to even look at. But lately, man, some of these revolvers are super nice looking.



Sexy guns.


----------



## Nick_A

Get a Ruger SR762. Same system as their SR556 but .308.


----------



## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Get a Ruger SR762. Same system as their SR556 but .308.


Looks great, good reviews too. Though I'd like to build my own again. Gives me something to do and is fun, and surprisingly not that difficult. Just follow a couple YT videos and you're good to go. Plus, I can just order a lower and have it shipped to my LGS and then order the rest and have it shipped direct to my home.


----------



## MannDude

After a long week, sometimes you just need to get outside and play. 

The range is finally open again! Sadly the 200 yard range was closed, but I was having fun at the 50 and 100 yard. Got my scope dialed in at 50, took it over to 100 and was getting on paper everytime after some minor adjustments but had poor groupings. Regardless, had a blast and spent a good 3 hours at a basically empty range. Was just myself, a buddy, and some other dude there sharing 5 (well 4, since the 200 yard one was closed ) different ranges with 2 stands each... so, yeah, empty.


----------



## Alex U

Gun laws here in NZ are extremely strict, I know some Airsoft guns are frowned upon as well.

Automatic guns are banned here, and you can check out the approved firearms here: http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firearms/approved-firearms which can *only *be used for sporting purposes.

I quite like the look of Glock pistols though.


----------



## Nick_A

Nice MannDude.


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> After a long week, sometimes you just need to get outside and play.
> 
> The range is finally open again! Sadly the 200 yard range was closed, but I was having fun at the 50 and 100 yard. Got my scope dialed in at 50, took it over to 100 and was getting on paper everytime after some minor adjustments but had poor groupings. Regardless, had a blast and spent a good 3 hours at a basically empty range. Was just myself, a buddy, and some other dude there sharing 5 (well 4, since the 200 yard one was closed ) different ranges with 2 stands each... so, yeah, empty.


I am planning on going shooting here either Monday or Tuesday.. Oddly its been a couple months since the last time I went.. Need to go before I start getting rusty. 

BTW NICE HAT @MannDude!


----------



## MannDude

Well, I think it's about time I had a Mosin Nagant. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant)

A local seller has a slew of these, and the great thing about Mosins is there are so so many of them that the prices are great. Anyone can afford a Mosin Nagant.

1st, uncertain. I think it's sold already.

2nd is a  Izhevsk 1943 stamped matching numbers
3rd is a Izhevsk 1942 stamped matching, line out on buttplate
4th is a Izhevsk 1944 stamped matching, very nice bore.

These below are only $140 each



These below are supposedly a little more "special", and are $160 each.
Top on is a 1943 Izhevsk with laminate stock, electropencil match
2nd one is a 1944 Izhevsk ex-sniper stamped matching, line out on floorplate. Seller has shot this one, claims it is a very good shooter, bore is near excellent.

3rd one sold.



And finally, the last options. Hex receivers, all are in early stocks, none have matching bayonets $150 each.

Top one is a 1935 Izhevsk stamped with matching numbers
2nd one is a 1932 Izhevsk stamped matching, lineouts on flooplate and butplate.

3rd, sold.



I'm not certain which one I'll get. Honestly, my reasoning for getting a Mosin is more or less because of the history and I love the look. A good mantle piece, but something I can also take to the long range if I feel like disciplining my shoulder with an afternoon of shooting. I may also be tempted to get an archangel stock for it (I'd keep the original) if I do end up wanting to shoot it often so I can modernize an antique gun, though I am on the fence about that. They do sort of look bad ass though, with the archangel stock:



Any Mosin owners here?


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Any Mosin owners here?


I posted one a while back. I love it!  am going to go shoot here in a few days ill take a video through my Google Glass of it in action. 

I think its time to re-name this thread to "The Gun Thread" @MannDude


----------



## Nick_A

Agreed ^


----------



## MannDude

Next time I am going to the range I am bringing my Mobius 1080p action cam with me and mounting it somewhere... want to see some neat perspective shooting 

Updating thread title.


----------



## MannDude

Got a new (antique) toy today.... made in 1932. Russian Mosin Nagant. Will look great on the mantle and will be blast at the range.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

...starting to think we're long lost twins or something, MD.  Just ordered a Mosin myself, should have it in by Tuesday


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> ...starting to think we're long lost twins or something, MD.  Just ordered a Mosin myself, should have it in by Tuesday


She's a beut. I'll post up a better photo shortly. Came with original bayonet, tool pouch and oil can and original sling. (And some non-original ammo). I'm pleased with it and these are quite affordable since there are so many of them, unless of course you want something particularly rare or find one in pristine condition.

What year is yours?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

1918 model.  I'll take pics once it comes in :3


----------



## MannDude

Ignore the tacky interior decor of my ancient home. And yes, I know the bayonet is on 'upside down', just didn't feel like attaching in on properly as it's sort of a PITA to get on and off. Just shown for representation of overall length. This is easily 5'+...





From: http://www.firearmstalk.com/Other-Uses-for-Mosin-Nagants.html


----------



## ThePrimeHost

My wife got me a Mossberg "Tactical" 22 LR with a red-dot scope and 900 rounds of 22LR. It's great fun for target shooting.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

My Мосина came in yesterday - spent this evening getting the cosmoline off and cleaning 'er up.  1943 made (they were out of the 1918s, so I'll have one on reserve once they come in plus a hefty discount), absolutely beautiful.  I'll get a couple pics tomorrow when the sun's up again.  Off to the range this weekend - 315 rounds to burn, my arm should be quite numb by the time I'm through.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> My Мосина came in yesterday - spent this evening getting the cosmoline off and cleaning 'er up.  1943 made (they were out of the 1918s, so I'll have one on reserve once they come in plus a hefty discount), absolutely beautiful.  I'll get a couple pics tomorrow when the sun's up again.  Off to the range this weekend - 315 rounds to burn, my arm should be quite numb by the time I'm through.


I'm planning on a range trip as well, weather pending. Hoping the 200 yard range is open, as last time it was closed and still under maintenance. 

Also looking forward to shooting the Mosin for the first time. Bolt action rifles are fun, can't wait.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Wear a thick jacket, or bring some padding for your shoulder if you're still using the stock buttplate.  She won't kick much, but it'll be enough to leave some bruises if you aren't used to longer rifles


----------



## Francisco

Chris Miller said:


> I posted one a while back. I love it!  am going to go shoot here in a few days ill take a video through my Google Glass of it in action.
> 
> I think its time to re-name this thread to "The Gun Thread" @MannDude


RIP @serverian

@MannDude - How much are the rounds for Mosin's?

Francisco


----------



## MannDude

Francisco said:


> @MannDude - How much are the rounds for Mosin's?
> 
> Francisco


 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-653 <-- $90 for 440 rounds, before shipping.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ProductListing.aspx?catid=607

I don't think Wal-Mart stocks 7.62X54R but I'll check when I get my groceries (They usually have the other stuff in stock that I look for). I've not had to buy any as the guy who sold me my Mosin through in a case of 20 and I've not been to the range yet.

My local shop will have some for sure, though pricing will be a few dollars more per box compared to what Cheaper Than Dirt sells them for. I doubt they stock surplus spam cans of it though.


----------



## Nick

The most common weapon I use.

IW Steyr with short barrel and M203 grenade launcher. Perfect for moving around in vehicles and demolishing everything and anything 







Double tap 5.56mm to 40mm grenade up to 400m.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-653 <-- $90 for 440 rounds, before shipping.
> 
> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ProductListing.aspx?catid=607
> 
> 
> I don't think Wal-Mart stocks 7.62X54R but I'll check when I get my groceries (They usually have the other stuff in stock that I look for). I've not had to buy any as the guy who sold me my Mosin through in a case of 20 and I've not been to the range yet.
> 
> 
> My local shop will have some for sure, though pricing will be a few dollars more per box compared to what Cheaper Than Dirt sells them for. I doubt they stock surplus spam cans of it though.


My local Academy store carries 7,62x,54 - but they want 10$ for 20 brass.  If you're fine with spending the time to clean your rifle after firing surplus rounds, you can get the same ammunition linked above in packs of 20 if you don't want to drop 90$ at once.  You do have to be very thorough cleaning with surplus rounds though - the powder has a non-congealant mixed in (which is why they're labeled corrosive), and will rust the hell out of your barrel if not cleaned out.


----------



## Jonathan

Nick said:


> The most common weapon I use.
> 
> IW Steyr with short barrel and M203 grenade launcher. Perfect for moving around in vehicles and demolishing everything and anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Double tap 5.56mm to 40mm grenade up to 400m.


Steyr's factory is about 20 minutes from our office B)


----------



## Nick

KnownHost-Jonathan said:


> Steyr's factory is about 20 minutes from our office B)


Nice! Ours were all made in the early 90's haha


----------



## MannDude

Yay! Range day tomorrow. I'm a little worried though, because now the word has spread wide and far that the local range is now officially back open.

When I went two weeks ago, it was one day after it was re-opened and no one really knew yet so it was _empty._ Someone I know who went today, during normal people's working hours said it was packed as hell.

And I'm going on a Saturday, where most people have off work... So hopefully I don't have to stand around and wait for a lane to open up. I really want to shoot my Mosin and get the iron sights on my AR zeroed in. (And as always, put a few magazines through my carry piece)


----------



## MannDude

The range was packed like crazy today. Didn't even take the gear out of the car.

Well, time to join the gun club in the county next to mine and pay annual dues to use a private outdoor range!

Feel a little bit like Dale Gribble.


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> The range was packed like crazy today. Didn't even take the gear out of the car.


I hear ya! Been trying to get out to my range but the weather has been complete shit and I am not about to go shooting my guns out in the cold and rain.



MannDude said:


> Well, time to join the gun club in the county next to mine and pay annual dues to use a private outdoor range!
> 
> Feel a little bit like Dale Gribble.


----------



## msp - nick

I don't get why America is such a gun nation; in UK we do have guns but rarely used - and you cannot simply just walk into a shop like you can in America and buy one.


----------



## MannDude

msp - nick said:


> I don't get why America is such a gun nation; in UK we do have guns but rarely used - and you cannot simply just walk into a shop like you can in America and buy one.


We have rights that are protected by our constitution. Our right to bear arms was deemed important enough by our founders that it came only second to our first amendment, which is the right to free speech.

Of course, America isn't the wild-west stereotype that many people around the world may believe it is. Are there a lot of guns here? Of course. Many people do indeed own them, both good people who acquired them legally and bad people who have acquired them illegally. In America, there are still a very large percentage of people who are anti-gun as well and believe that only the police and military should have them. (Which I obviously disagree with)

You can't expect every nation in the world to have uniform laws, culture, and points of view. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## ChrisM

Saw these and thought it might be the perfect place to post them.


----------



## drmike

Oh guns, you take them away and people resort to fists and knives and bombs.  Uncivilized criminals bent on violence get both medieval and creative.  Random dope head fiends looking for a fix can end up in your face or place at any time and they are fairly ahh immune to pain, believe me, been there with these idiots in the past.

Problem is your mother, grandmother, daughter, etc. probably don't stand a chance in an attack situation.  May I present the greatest equalizer the world has ever seen:

THE GUN

I am a gun advocate and a survivor of gun violence (a botched armed robbery where a coward shot me in the back with a 9mm handgun). Had I been carrying then, there very well might be one more dead perp. 

Come stupid in my direction and I give you a kind warning and the next step is the coroner and a bag for you.


----------



## MannDude

Oh hey, this lovely thread again.

Haven't been to the range in a while. Last time I went it was too packed. Need to join the nearby gun club but have to get voted in and then have to participate in club stuff once a month I believe. I think it'd be well worth it for access to the private range.

@Aldryic C'boas, ever get your mosin?

I was thinking I wanted to build a new AR, but what I absolutely love about the AR platform is... there is no real need to. I wanted a long range rifle with a 24" barrel, but I can just build a new upper instead of building a new entire rifle. Swapping the 16" short range upper out with a bigger one would take all but 30 seconds and will save me from having to order a new lower and build on it.

Can't shoot two ARs at the same time anyway (safely, or accurately atleast...) so might as well just have one lower and multiple uppers for it for the time being.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Aye, I sure did, just hadn't had a chance to get to the range yet.  Been a stupidly busy couple of months -_-

Hoping to have my schedule cleared up by this weekend so I can get out to the field and burn some brass.  I'll take some pics tonight when I get home if I remember >_>


----------



## Nick

Spent two days at the range. Got over 500 rounds down range and a lot of waiting around.


----------



## MannDude

Woah, what sort of rifles are those? Are those Tavors or a variant?



I think they're ugly but I keep seeing them on gun forums and people are crazy about them. I'd like to fire one though. Is that a service rifle of the NZ Army?


----------



## Nick

MannDude said:


> Woah, what sort of rifles are those? Are those Tavors or a variant?
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're ugly but I keep seeing them on gun forums and people are crazy about them. I'd like to fire one though. Is that a service rifle of the NZ Army?


It's the Steyr. Service rifle here in New Zealand and Australia. Originated from Austria.


----------



## ChrisM

Nick said:


> It's the Steyr. Service rifle here in New Zealand and Australia. Originated from Austria.


Must resist the urge to buy....Must resist the urge to buy...Must resist the urge to buy....


----------



## bellicus

For the Mosin fans. I've got an all matching serial russian xsniper yr 1925 i got from gander mt few years ago for $99. Will have pics of that when i'm back from vacation.

Here's a pic of the FE6.  It's a great little pistol for what i paid for it. (200)


----------



## ChrisM

Chris Miller said:


> Must resist the urge to buy....Must resist the urge to buy...Must resist the urge to buy....



The urge of resistance didn't work....Bid on one on Gun Brooker but was under the reserve and seller relisted without telling me his reserve.


----------



## MannDude

Waiting on some tritium night sights from Dawson Precision to arrive for my Kahr that I carry. Once they arrive I'm shipping the slide up state to get cerakoted and sights installed. 

The stock Kahr sights are sort of bad, I think. I never got used to the "i" sight. Rear sight is a straight line and front sight is normal. It's like putting the dot on an 'i' to line up. Will be much better after the new sights arrive I think:



So they'll appear similar to the above. Much better than what is shown below:



Sort of want to get into reloading as well, but I've got enough hobbies that I don't have time or money for to start another. But a little reloading bench would be nice...


----------



## LimestoneNetworks

We're based in Dallas and this is definitely the heart of gun country


----------



## William

Chris Miller said:


> Must resist the urge to buy....Must resist the urge to buy...Must resist the urge to buy....


It's a great rifle, i owned an A3 before (it's also fairly popular in Austria) though they are heavily overpriced (an A3 goes for 2500EUR here IIRC)

Very accurate and easy to handle, great mounts (though putting stuff on them is illegal in .at)


----------



## ChrisM

My Christmas present to myself came today


----------



## MannDude

I bought myself one of these for my AR... They were on sale for $99 and I couldn't resist...






Girl not included, unfortunately.

The bumpfire stock looks fun, lot of awesome videos on YouTube. Not a very practical accessory and I'm sure it's something I won't keep on my AR all the time (local range doesn't allow rapid fire) but I'm sure I'll have fun with it and can always sell it later when the novelty wears off.


----------



## MannDude

I really want to get a VZ2008, which is just a US-legal VZ58 clone:






PSA sells them for like $350.

I can't justify any more purchases until I can get a place to live in the countryside where I can shoot in my backyard.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

FINALLY had a weekend with decent enough weather to get out and shoot the Мосина.  For an 80 year old rifle that's spend the last 60-70 years in storage, I was pretty damn impressed.  My groupings are a bit erratic (this is after 40-50 rounds already fired with the stock metal shoulder plate, plus another ~200 or so at the pistol range), but aside from getting greedy and going for headshots towards the end, at 100yds with the iron sights I'm satisfied with the results.


----------



## William

Nick said:


> It's the Steyr. Service rifle here in New Zealand and Australia. Originated from Austria.


I like the STG77 as we call in in Austria (STG77 = Steyr AUG A1) - NZ/AU use the A2 i think, the one pictured is a (heavily) modded A2 or old A3


----------



## MannDude

Nice Aldy! I need to get out and go to the range soon too. I've still not fired my mosin and have a Remington 870 I acquired that also hasn't been shot. Also put that bumpfire system on my AR, but the local range doesn't allow rapid fire so need to go somewhere private for taht.

I was excited to get my Kahr slide back today. I finally sent it off to to be cerakoted and to have night sights installed... but then I realized today is a national holiday so I won't be receiving it until tomorrow


----------



## MannDude

Got my slide for my Kahr back today. Had sent it off to be cerakoted black (painted, more or less) and for the installation of some new night sights. I'm pleased with the results. 









Pardon any visible smudges or dust, that would be my fault.

I've already got a new job for the guy, but first I need to get my old Ruger MK1 operating flawlessly (doesn't want to cycle rounds properly) before I send it off to get dolled up.


----------



## MannDude

This isn't mine, but man oh man I wish it was. This is some straight up _rifle porn_ here:







Yanked from my local firearms forum.

PSA has some great deals on .308 lowers... I really want to build a long range rifle... But I don't got much of a long range near me.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

The range I go to (private membership, 150$/yr, no other requirements) tops out at 600, but that's sufficient for me.

My next project will be picking up an Archangel stock for the Мосина:



I haven't decided yet if I'm going to modify the bolt, or simply do a scope farther up.  Will likely remove the front site and install a muzzle brake and bipod as well.

Before I get started on that though, I have my eye on the LC9 to use as a concealed carry piece.







I like the squared off look the laser sight gives it, my only worry is finding a comfortable holster.


----------



## Nick_A

Make sure you get the LC9s, not the original LC9. The trigger is an enormous upgrade on the LC9s model. Had both. Would also recommend the Crimson Trace instead of the other laser options if you're going that route.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Wasnt even aware of the LC9s - I had read a few bad reviews about the LC9 trigger and figured I'd probably have to replace it, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Nick_A

They're selling like hotcakes. The LC9 had the right size and features for its intended purpose, but that trigger was awful. The new trigger isn't quite a Glock, but it's remarkably better. The local shop is keeping the LC9s in the back, hoping people will still buy the LC9 unaware lol. Ruger appears to be differentiating them by not offering the LC9s with lasers, but it's not hard to add one (and it's worth the extra bucks over getting an LC9 with laser included).


----------



## gordonrp

Nice collections , I'm into archery myself.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> The range I go to (private membership, 150$/yr, no other requirements) tops out at 600, but that's sufficient for me.
> 
> My next project will be picking up an Archangel stock for the Мосина:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided yet if I'm going to modify the bolt, or simply do a scope farther up.  Will likely remove the front site and install a muzzle brake and bipod as well.
> 
> Before I get started on that though, I have my eye on the LC9 to use as a concealed carry piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the squared off look the laser sight gives it, my only worry is finding a comfortable holster.


That's a popular setup, so quite a few companies make holsters for it. I'd check out AlienGear, they make some great holsters.

EDIT: I also sort of want to bastardize my Mosin with the Archangel conversion but haven't decided yet.


----------



## Nick_A

Crossbreed is nice as well.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> EDIT: I also sort of want to bastardize my Mosin with the Archangel conversion but haven't decided yet.


Well, I figured since I have a 1918 on reserve whenever they come in, I'll pick up a second to keep in original condition.


----------



## William

Damn, i want such a conversion kit for mine too but no one stocks them here and most likely i'd need an expensive (but easily available) import license for it


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> Well, I figured since I have a 1918 on reserve whenever they come in, I'll pick up a second to keep in original condition.





William said:


> Damn, i want such a conversion kit for mine too but no one stocks them here and most likely i'd need an expensive (but easily available) import license for it


The purists will frown upon you but some gun owners can be as snobby/stubborn as the PC vs Console gaming crowd. There are literally millions (Like 17 million) made. They're so mass produced and affordable that I don't see an issue with converting them. If I find one with a broken stock or one that needs some TLC but has a good bore I might pick it up.

My '33 I wouldn't convert as it's already in good condition but man I'd love to find a 'nice busted' one that I could concert without concern. 

Speaking of rifle conversions...






This company makes bullpup conversions for the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870. I've been starting to warm up to the idea of bullpup rifles. They're widely used elsewhere and they seem to be growing in popularity here in the US. I don't actually want to convert my 870 but I think it's cool as hell I _can_ if I wanted to. I watched quite a few videos on YouTube and everyone seems quite pleased with their converted shotguns. 

I need to find a place out in the country to move to this year so I can be outside of city limits where I can actually shoot more often. I want a shooting range in my back yard really bad. I'd love to have a backyard 500 yard range... man oh man. A guy can dream, I guess.


----------



## William

I just bought the Mosin because it was cheap anyway, i don't like it in particular - The "Tech cool" look would be nice though.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> This company makes bullpup conversions for the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870. I've been starting to warm up to the idea of bullpup rifles. They're widely used elsewhere and they seem to be growing in popularity here in the US. I don't actually want to convert my 870 but I think it's cool as hell I _can_ if I wanted to. I watched quite a few videos on YouTube and everyone seems quite pleased with their converted shotguns.


Hah, damn, that actually has me considering picking up a Rem+kit now.  Sweet and scary home defence tool.


----------



## William

Yea, that looks very neat - Sadly pumpguns are entirely forbidden in Austria since some guy shot his family with one 20 years ago. Stupid law but it won't change anymore.


----------



## raidz

Any of you guys hear about this?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/foghorn/breaking-atf-releases-open-letter-claiming-misusing-pistol-brace-makes-sbr/


----------



## MannDude

raidz said:


> Any of you guys hear about this?
> 
> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/foghorn/breaking-atf-releases-open-letter-claiming-misusing-pistol-brace-makes-sbr/


Yes. ATF should be disbanded.

This is all because some people were shouldering the brace and posting videos to YouTube and bragging about it being a 'loophole' to the SBR requirements I believe. I mean, you can still shoulder it I guess... just wouldn't do it at a public range or in front of any ATF agents, ha. Don't photograph yourself doing it and post it to social media like others did.

Also, at @Aldryic C'boas , if you get that Ruger LC9 another suggestion for holsters would be Shephard Holsters. They have some that accommodate the LC9 even with the Crimson trace laser. I use a Shephard holster for my CM9 and love it. I even bought a N82 Tactical one since everyone raves about those but prefer the Shephard. Comfortable, if I am out and about can wear it all day without even really noticing it is there. Small frame pistols just disappear in jeans and a t-shirt. Has good quality hardware and is adjustable. Made in the USA, but then again most quality gun leather is


----------



## ModyDev

I like the homemade gun


----------



## MannDude

Venexcloud said:


> I like the homemade gun



Holy shit. No thanks!

A 12GA homemade pistol? 0_o

I'd be willing to put it in a vice, tie a long string to the trigger and hide behind a tree and pull it so it doesn't blow off my hand or break my wrist from the recoil, though... haha.

A lot of people are worried about 3D printed guns becoming a 'thing', and while they are a 'thing' already... most are pretty dangerous to operate and I've only seen demonstrations with them being fired remotely or with the string on trigger method. Plus most have been single shot pistols and not magazine fed or anything but maybe I've not seen those.


----------



## ModyDev

hehe from first impression you think it is unsafe but when you shoot the first round you will find out it is safe and fun to shoot with.

I have fired around 2x25 12GA packs with this pistol and from my personal experience with it you just have to hold it well and becarful because it is reaction is stronger than the normal shotgun because it has a short barrel and you will be fine.

There is more interesting pistol that fires 5.45×39mm Russian ammunition like the AK47 but i didn't have the chance to try those


----------



## TekStorm - Walter

Guns are cool, they guns kill people, no guns dont people kill people the gun is just the easiest thing to use. If they are in the right hands gun are your best friend but as soon as you give it to the idiot on the street selling drugs then the stupidity kicks in.


----------



## MannDude

Gun owners don't want gun violence. One thing the anit-gun soccer Mom crowd doesn't understand is that we're allies in wanting to reduce gun crime. The difference is our thought process. They think _more laws_ will stop gun violence. That doesn't work here. Someone hell bent on shooting up a place isn't going to get pumped up, get prepared to go in and do it and then stop when he sees a "No guns allowed" sign. Gun free zones should be eliminated completely anyhow, in my opinion. They'll see that sign and be happy knowing they'll be met with no resistance.

The right to bear arms is embedded in America culture. It's not going away. Many schools taught children marksmanship up until about 20 years ago. Hunting, targeting shooting and carrying because it is our right to do so is just something we do. The truth is violence and murders in America have decreased dramatically over the past couple decades, though reporting of violent crimes has of course sky rocketed. It's not the wild west, and unless you're unfortunate enough to live in the real bad lower income areas of some major shitties cities then you're probably pretty safe.

In America it's already a felony to possess a firearm with illegal drugs as far as I know, even if the gun itself would otherwise be legal and the amount of drugs would be a slap on the wrist or a misdemeanor (From what I understand, haven't read into it much as it doesn't apply to me). That's a law that exists yet it doesn't stop criminals and thugs from doing it. Laws only work on law abiding citizens. Criminals don't give two shits what's legal and whats not. They'd prefer that citizens don't have guns as it makes for easy target and reduces their risk of injury when they go about their crimes.

All I know is that I love going to the range. I love the fact that I have the right as a private citizen to own and carry a gun. As with other rights we have I prefer to use it instead of ignore it. It's the same reason I vote, same reason if I disagree with a politician I can say that they're an asshole and not worry or fear for 'speaking out'.


----------



## mikho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c


----------



## MannDude

Fixed the embed link since it wasn't showing up.

LOL. That was pretty funny. (Even if I disagree with some of it) Jim Jefferies is a great comedian!


----------



## mikho

MannDude said:


> Fixed the embed link since it wasn't showing up.
> 
> 
> LOL. That was pretty funny. (Even if I disagree with some of it) Jim Jefferies is a great comedian!


Strange, it embedded fine on the mobile theme.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Installed a recoil pad on the Мосина and went back to the range today - made a _WORLD_ of difference.  Not in recoil, which didn't bother me much, but it added an extra few cm to the stock, and made it much easier to hold a steady pull on the rifle.







150 yards, freestand without support, ironsights.  First five rounds went a bit up and right (the three together, and the two to the side of the head).  Next four grouped nicely on the left, but I overcompensated for the lift on the headshot for that last round.






Adjusted the sights, fired another two rails.  First five did meh (7th and 8th ring), the last four (9th ring) and headshot I was quite pleased with.  At 150y on a rather windy day, that's probably the best I'll get it on the ironsights unless I put a bipod on it and start shooting from a bench.

Next mod will be putting in a Timney trigger, and getting the parts I need to tap a scope mount.  Which, sadly will render it inoperable for a couple of weeks while I have the bolt sent off to get modified, but I'm hoping by then I'll have a new toy to keep my occupied for the time.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Oh now this is just frustrating.  Last week, I went ahead and ordered the Archangel stock, Timney trigger, muzzle brake, front rail, bipod, Rocksolid scope mount and custom bolt.

*Everything* for the stock itself has already arrived, or is arriving today.  The damn stock was delayed and won't get here until Monday -_-


----------



## ModyDev

Aldryic C said:


> Oh now this is just frustrating.  Last week, I went ahead and ordered the Archangel stock, Timney trigger, muzzle brake, front rail, bipod, Rocksolid scope mount and custom bolt.
> 
> *Everything* for the stock itself has already arrived, or is arriving today.  The damn stock was delayed and won't get here until Monday -_-


Please wait patiently.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> Oh now this is just frustrating.  Last week, I went ahead and ordered the Archangel stock, Timney trigger, muzzle brake, front rail, bipod, Rocksolid scope mount and custom bolt.
> 
> *Everything* for the stock itself has already arrived, or is arriving today.  The damn stock was delayed and won't get here until Monday -_-


Where did you order the stock from? I may pick one up sometime just keep in the safe until I stumble upon a Mosin I want to convert.

With my birthday coming up in a couple months, I think I'm going to get myself a nice VZ58/2008. Reasonably priced and arguable 'better' than the famed AK47.



I just love the look of the older rifles and the history involved, even on the imports and clones. After doing a lot of reading/looking into it, I think I'd rather have a VZ than an AK.






I LOVE hickok45's videos. He has a great channel full of great information, great shooting, and I like his poorly timed dull humor. I feel like he says stuff sometimes as a joke that just sounds like he's serious.

Anyhow, the VZ58 / VZ2008 is definitely on my to-buy list.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Amazon, of all people, actually had the best price on the stock.

I now have the forward rail, bipod, Timney, muzzle brake, and scope mount sitting on my desk.  Estimated delivery for the stock... Monday -_-;

But, I had a productive day nontheless.  Probably my last time shooting this rifle 'vanilla', and I'm quite pleased at how accurate I was able to get the ironsights.  200 yards, freestanding - 25 shots, one miss.


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> Amazon, of all people, actually had the best price on the stock.


One problem i've had with buying gun parts of amazon is amazon and the ones who sell it on there never seem to make sure their stock is updated. I had 3 separate orders canceled due to insufficient stock. I've never had issues with things being out of stock after ordering on amazon other then with gun parts. :-/

Nice grouping btw!


----------



## RLT

The VZ is very nice but a FAL is my dream gun.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

WEW.  Stock came in this evening, so straight to the shop I went with it.











I haven't done the muzzle brake or the scope yet.  Going back to the range tomorrow to see how she does with the new stock and Timney trigger, then I'll start working on the rest.


----------



## MannDude

Sexy! I'm diggin' that for sure. I'm keeping my eyes open for a Mosin for sale on local firearms groups and forums as I really want to find one to convert. I just don't want to touch my 1932 Mosin as it's in great condition for the age... but man oh man, you can rest assured as soon as I find one with a busted stock or something I'll probably pick it up if the price is right.

EDIT: What case is that? I need to get a couple hard cases... I only have a cheap Plano plastic case and it was cracked upon arrival but I've been using it anyhow. Been looking on Amazon just haven't jumped on any yet.

I've not posted my Remington 870 I've been working on the past few months... 



Magpul forend and stock, Archangel 7-shot shell holder, hated the stock bead sight so got a snap-on fiber optic front sight and put a heat shield on it... I don't really want to do anything else with it, that's about as 'tacti-cool' as I get. 

Pretty badass transformation if you ask me, considering the stock, off the shelf rifle looks like this:



And yes, I have pretty wallpaper...


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> EDIT: What case is that? I need to get a couple hard cases... I only have a cheap Plano plastic case and it was cracked upon arrival but I've been using it anyhow. Been looking on Amazon just haven't jumped on any yet.


Only one I could find at the local sporting goods store long enough. Out at the pub and cant recall the brand, but I'll take a look when I get home


----------



## Nick_A

Finally finished this bad boy:


----------



## ChrisM

Nick_A said:


> Finally finished this bad boy:



I am officially Jealous.


----------



## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Finally finished this bad boy:


308?

Hard to tell from the photo.


----------



## Nick_A

Yeah you can tell by the straight magazine 

SCAR 16 would be


----------



## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Yeah you can tell by the straight magazine


That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure. Looks nice. I'm wanting to build an AR10 later this year... but I also want a lot of other stuff too... so we'll see. It's been a very long time since I've shot a 308 but want to build a long-range beast 

BTW, what sort of wait time was there for you to get your stamp for the suppressor? I'd love to get one but the stamp is $200, correct? Plus a few months for the ATF to approve it? Then however much for the can? Either way, looks great and like a lot of fun! Nice rifle indeed.


----------



## Nick_A

Yeah, $200 per stamp. Tons of fun. Only downside is ammo cost. Surprisingly paper form was returned in a little over 3 months this time. ETA used to be 9 months last year... eForms took 4 months on the AR can last year.

Beware of AR10s. I take everything on Youtube with a grain of salt, but significant negatives over an FAL, SCAR, or M1A in the BR category:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91dvwZpRvYw


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Welp, my willpower finally crumbled, and bought one of these last night.



Вепр (Vepr) 7,62x39, produced in the Молот factory in Вя́тские Поля́ны.  Heavy duty receiver, hammer-forged and chrome lined barrel, chrome lined chamber.  Picked it up for 699, plus shipping for a grand total of just under 725$.  Oughta be in by mid next week.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Aldryic C said:


> Welp, my willpower finally crumbled, and bought one of these last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Вепр (Vepr) 7,62x39, produced in the Молот factory in Вя́тские Поля́ны.  Heavy duty receiver, hammer-forged and chrome lined barrel, chrome lined chamber.  Picked it up for 699, plus shipping for a grand total of just under 725$.  Oughta be in by mid next week.


Beautiful. I've actually never seen that gun before. Awesome though.


----------



## MannDude

Nice addition to the family!


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

@MannDude, I just realized I never got back to you on what rifle case I use for the Винтовка, sorry about that.

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/game-winner-double-gun-case/pid-980661?color=Black+and+silver+exterior&N=838464443

I think I paid ~40 for it in-store, not sure why the online price is so high.  Solid case, haven't had any issues with it other than the thing is heavy as hell when packed full.  Original stock, and even with the Archangel w/ rail and bipod, it fit the rifle plus a few magazines as well as my pistol.  Once I have the scope on there though, I doubt I'll still be able to fit my Ruger in with it, so I picked up a little pistol case for that today.


----------



## fixidixi

> You don't have permission to access "http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/game-winner-double-gun-case/pid-980661?" on this server.


----------



## MannDude

fixidixi said:


> You don't have permission to access "http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/game-winner-double-gun-case/pid-980661?" on this server.
Click to expand...

Works for me. Maybe they block connections based on certain GeoLocations or regions they don't ship to?


----------



## fixidixi

Guess that is true! I've just checked it and it works just fine from

-usa

-italy

ip addresses... wouldnt have tought we r on a black list


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> Welp, my willpower finally crumbled, and bought one of these last night.
> 
> 
> 
> Вепр (Vepr) 7,62x39, produced in the Молот factory in Вя́тские Поля́ны.  Heavy duty receiver, hammer-forged and chrome lined barrel, chrome lined chamber.  Picked it up for 699, plus shipping for a grand total of just under 725$.  Oughta be in by mid next week.



Wanna buy some Ammo for it? I have 49, 20 rounds boxes $290 for all O.B.O Includes shipping.  

Edit: http://imgur.com/a/vlkJ3


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

That's a bit pricy for WPA, sorry   I can get 1k rounds of WPA classic from my local bulk guy for just over 200, though for plinking I typically use Brown/Silver Bear.


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> That's a bit pricy for WPA, sorry   I can get 1k rounds of WPA classic from my local bulk guy for just over 200, though for plinking I typically use Brown/Silver Bear.


Ah ok. I've haven't really used Brown/silverbear much.

Just for shits and giggles.. $250 shipped?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Eh, no thanks.  WPA is low cost for a reason, and if I'm going to be shooting something that dirty I could just save a ton more by shooting old surplus rounds, since I'd be disassembling and scrubbing the rifle down anyway.  That, and I wasn't exaggerating about the 200... there's a distributer here in town that'll sell you an ammo can full of 50x 20 round WPA for like ~205, and no tax if you pay him in cash.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

WEW.  Finally got the mount and scope in.












And after ~20 rounds to zero it in, another 10 rounds for fine tuning... final results for 10 rounds at 300yds on a 10" target:






Not to shabby for a little 2,75x ncStar.


----------



## MannDude

Love the look of that stock, and it seems to have helped improve the accuracy.

Too cold here to go to the range...


----------



## Robert

On my 18th birthday I picked up a Keltec sub 2000 and a Ruger 10/22 (because what self respecting American citizen doesn't own a 10/22 )


----------



## MannDude

10/22's are fun! Great guns and 100s of accessories so you can keep it stock or go wild and make it tacti-cool. I want one for plinking cans and would be good for rabbit hunting. I have a Ruger 22, but its a MK1 pistol. I wouldn't mind a 10/22 rifle just not high up on the priority list.


----------



## Robert

MannDude said:


> 10/22's are fun! Great guns and 100s of accessories so you can keep it stock or go wild and make it tacti-cool. I want one for plinking cans and would be good for rabbit hunting. I have a Ruger 22, but its a MK1 pistol. I wouldn't mind a 10/22 rifle just not high up on the priority list.


They're pretty cheap, and considered a fairly "classic" first gun in the US, so I couldn't resist.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Just finished my latest little project.. Vepr 7,62x39 16,5":


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> Just finished my latest little project.. Vepr 7,62x39 16,5":


Heck yeah. Great looking rifle Aldy.

Now that it's finally warming up I'm getting the itch again! I've taken a week off work at the end of this month. Going to be sure I find some time to make it to the range


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> Just finished my latest little project.. Vepr 7,62x39 16,5":


That is one sexy beast!


----------



## RLT

The Veprs are very nice. I would like to have one for all of the yotes that keep after my livestock.


----------



## MannDude

Any Glock fanboys here? What do you think about the new Glock 43 coming out? Was pretty excited to see them come out with a single stack 9mm after the release last year of their first single stack pistol (The 380) but was a bit disappointed to find it's still actually larger than what I carry now.



That is the new Glock compared to other similar guns...


----------



## MannDude

*Is Blackwater about to go invade a foreign village???*

No, that's just MannDude loading his car up to go to the shooting range...


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> *Is Blackwater about to go invade a foreign village???*
> 
> No, that's just MannDude loading his car up to go to the shooting range...


Have fun!


----------



## Nick_A

MannDude said:


> Any Glock fanboys here? What do you think about the new Glock 43 coming out? Was pretty excited to see them come out with a single stack 9mm after the release last year of their first single stack pistol (The 380) but was a bit disappointed to find it's still actually larger than what I carry now.
> 
> [...]
> 
> That is the new Glock compared to other similar guns...


I'd like to see it with a finger extension compared to the LC9s also with a finger extension. The latter just barely fits in my hand with it. The G26 is very nice, just a bit thick. Glock seemed a bit behind the times for not bothering to compete on the single stack 9mm market until now, but they might not have needed to.


----------



## MannDude

Well, that was fun and needed.

Range was busy like usual which sucks. I am applying for membership at a private one that is actually closer so I hope I get accepted. It's a PITA going to the free/public one sometimes. They don't allow shotguns anymore, so _still_ haven't shot my 870 yet. Shot 120rds of 556 at the 50yd line since the 100 and 200yd line was occupied by two large groups for the two or three hours I was at the range... had some pretty okay results. Cheap surplus ammo isn't known for it's accuracy so I'm happy to get every round within the 8" target at that distance.

Still a horrid shot with pistols, haha. But fun nonetheless.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

We should pick a week or so each year to all meet up someplace and go stink up a range all day.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> We should pick a week or so each year to all meet up someplace and go stink up a range all day.


I'm down. I'm sure @Nick_A and @Chris Miller would be down too


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> We should pick a week or so each year to all meet up someplace and go stink up a range all day.





MannDude said:


> I'm down. I'm sure @Nick_A and @Chris Miller would be down too


I most certainly would be!


----------



## Robert

MannDude said:


> Any Glock fanboys here? What do you think about the new Glock 43 coming out? Was pretty excited to see them come out with a single stack 9mm after the release last year of their first single stack pistol (The 380) but was a bit disappointed to find it's still actually larger than what I carry now.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the new Glock compared to other similar guns...


Happy it's finally here, now I just need to turn 21


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I'm sure Daddy's Money could be spent on something more appropriate than a handgun for a kid.


----------



## KwiceroLTD

Aldryic C said:


> I'm sure Daddy's Money could be spent on something more appropriate than a handgun for a kid.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

He should spend less time/money on frivolous pursuits and more on atoning for trying to compromise other hosts' SolusVM installs.


----------



## KwiceroLTD

Anyone ever fired one? CZ 75 B (czech made).


----------



## MannDude

KwiceroLTD said:


> Anyone ever fired one? CZ 75 B (czech made).


Nope but I love their appearance. My local gun forum has a long "CZ porn thread" and they're highly regarded as great pistols. I don't so much care for their polymer stuff (appearance) but want a CZ75 as well.


----------



## Coastercraze

Gun wise, I have an old Teddy Roosevelt (have not shot it / still in its case) and my handy dandy:


----------



## MannDude

Sneak peek of a work in progress. 



Waiting on a couple tools to arrive and one more part...


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

heheh, I think I know where you're going with that :3

I have some parts en-route for my Vepr.. QD Bipod, QD 30mil rings, QD sidemount rail.  Ideal endgame is being able to switch up from a 25-100yd bush rifle to a 300-500yd+ "from Russia with love" in less time than it takes to reload the mag.  I'll do some before/after pics once I get everything in, assembled, and zero'd.


----------



## MannDude

Nice Aldy! Definitely need to share the progress on that.

And to ruin the surprise, I'm upgrading my upper a bit. Not actually building anything new. I'm waiting for a freefloat 15" keymod handguard to come in and have already received the new muzzle brake and gas block replacement.



All I am waiting for now is the upper receiver vice block so I can safely put it in a vice to remove the barrel nut with the barrel nut tool I am waiting for as well. And of course the handguard itself.

Will _look_ much better once done since and the full length handguard will allow for a much longer sight radius for when using iron sights and let me get my arm out further to stabilize it when shooting while standing up. But mainly it's for appearances, I won't lie. 

I'm also thinking of getting a skeleton stock like this one as well, but that can wait:


----------



## MannDude

BTW:


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I would never go to a range with that moron >_>


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> I would never go to a range with that moron >_>


It's his backyard.

But I agree, wouldn't want to be near when he stress tests a rifle.

He put 850rds through an AK and literally started an internal fire in one of his other videos.


----------



## TekStorm - Walter

Guns dont kill people they are made for self defence, people kill people.


----------



## MannDude

Just installed my new 15" freefloat handguard, new muzzle brake and and gas block. Photos soon.


----------



## Mayday

Francisco said:


> I wish ranges were more common in Canada.
> 
> 
> The few times I went shooting (once in Vegas, once in Texas), it was a hell of a lot of fun.
> 
> 
> I could trailer park boys it in the back woods but eh...
> 
> 
> Francisco


There are rock and sandpits on so many of the back roads you don't need to go far and they work just fine 

Here is the one I have on order:







I am moving into some serious Grizz country and the 45-70gov has enough oomph easily with the 405g and I can load up lighter with the 300g for other game elk deer etc and knock em down easy at 200-250 yards. Perfect little brush gun with huge hitting power.


----------



## MannDude

Woop woop.

My cat likes the upgrade:


----------



## Mayday

Looks damn nice. Never had the chance to shoot something like that. Only real assault style rifle i got to try was a MG-42 which was a pretty cool experience. other than that i have just always been hunting rifles, shotguns with the occasional handgun.

Hickok cracks me up, great vids.


----------



## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Woop woop.
> 
> My cat likes the upgrade:


Looking Sexy!


----------



## GIANT_CRAB

TekStorm - Walter said:


> Guns dont kill people they are made for self defence, people kill people.


Guns don't kill people, the government does.


----------



## MannDude

Mayday said:


> Looks damn nice. Never had the chance to shoot something like that. Only real assault style rifle i got to try was a MG-42 which was a pretty cool experience. other than that i have just always been hunting rifles, shotguns with the occasional handgun.
> 
> Hickok cracks me up, great vids.


Thanks. I love shooting rifles. Truth be told I'm a pretty horrible shot with a pistol, I think even after 1,000+ rounds through my pistols I still anticipate the recoil or something and it effects my ability to shoot.

Rifles on the other hand, I do much better with.

A MG-42 would be awesome to have, though they're full-auto only, right? Would be quite the expense here. Citizens can legally own full auto weapons but it's not cheap from what I understand. I've not looked into it that much.

And Hickock is great. Good sense of humor and from what I've read he's a nice dude off camera too. Insanely skilled with pistols as well. People seem to run into him quite often in Tennessee at random gun shows and shops.


----------



## ChrisM

http://www.gruntstyle.com/ammo-is-happiness.html


----------



## Francisco

Chris Miller said:


> http://www.gruntstyle.com/ammo-is-happiness.html


Found Aldryic's bonus for next month.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Been working on converting my Vepr into a more maneuverable scout rifle - easily exchangable accessories, QD fittings, etc.  Finally got everything assembled tonight, and I'm quite pleased with how it turned out.


----------



## MannDude

Turned out great!


----------



## iWF-Jacob

Just picked this guy up and am pretty stoked, S&W was having a promo for three free mags so hopefully those should be arriving soon!


----------



## MannDude

iWF-Jacob said:


> Just picked this guy up and am pretty stoked, S&W was having a promo for three free mags so hopefully those should be arriving soon!



Nice! How do you like it? I've fondled a couple at the shop and considered one when choosing my carry piece but in the end went with my Kahr since I already have a S&W (4566TSW)...

The folks at my LGS carry them and swear by them, as do thousands of others. Can't go wrong. S&W has great customer service too if you ever need to use it.

Well, I didn't buy a new 'gun'... but I _am _waiting on an 80% lower to arrive (should be here tomorrow) that I'll need to mill out and turn into a lower for an AR15 "ghost" pistol I am wanting to build.... more on that later. It will be a slow build.

For inspiration though:


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I was contemplating an AK(47|74) pistol build myself.  Looking at the AR-type pistols though... what's the point of the stubby extrusion where the stock used to be?  I can't imagine that really being helpful in any way.


----------



## iWF-Jacob

MannDude said:


> Nice! How do you like it? I've fondled a couple at the shop and considered one when choosing my carry piece but in the end went with my Kahr since I already have a S&W (4566TSW)...
> 
> The folks at my LGS carry them and swear by them, as do thousands of others. Can't go wrong. S&W has great customer service too if you ever need to use it.


I love it! That being said it's a full size pistol, and is not an easy carry piece, it's definitely a purpose built duty weapon. That being said, it's brilliantly accurate, and has yet to jam on me.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> I was contemplating an AK(47|74) pistol build myself.  Looking at the AR-type pistols though... what's the point of the stubby extrusion where the stock used to be?  I can't imagine that really being helpful in any way.


The buffer tube still needs to exist for the bolt action since it's what contains the spring that pushes the bolt forward after each shot. Plus you can still rest you cheek on the (covered) buffer tube for stability.

They do make a shortened buffer tube like shown below but since I don't see it on most pistol builds I am uncertain how well it performs.


----------



## MartinD

TekStorm - Walter said:


> Guns dont kill people they are made for self defence, people kill people.


Possibly one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen in this thread.

Self defence against what, exactly?


----------



## Neo

For self defence we are not allowed to carry weapons, pepperspray is also vorbidden.

That is bullshit, but you do still get these thing here but if you get catched... you are screwed.

Even with a fucking knife, when you dont have a reason and get catched its gone.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> The buffer tube still needs to exist for the bolt action since it's what contains the spring that pushes the bolt forward after each shot. Plus you can still rest you cheek on the (covered) buffer tube for stability.
> 
> They do make a shortened buffer tube like shown below but since I don't see it on most pistol builds I am uncertain how well it performs.


Haha, derp.  It's been so long since I laid hands on an m16a2 I'd forgotten it's configuration.



MartinD said:


> Possibly one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen in this thread.
> 
> Self defence against what, exactly?


I've always preferred: "My rifle is a tool.  _*I*_ am the weapon."


----------



## MartinD

Neo said:


> For self defence we are not allowed to carry weapons, pepperspray is also vorbidden.
> 
> That is bullshit, but you do still get these thing here but if you get catched... you are screwed.
> 
> Even with a fucking knife, when you dont have a reason and get catched its gone.


Luckily, as a Scotsman, I can actually walk around the UK (and commonwealth countries) wearing a knife, legally....but only if I'm in Scottish National Dress.



Aldryic C said:


> I've always preferred: "My rifle is a tool.  _*I*_ am the weapon."


That makes a lot more sense.

People who say "Guns are made for self defence" need to have a word with themselves. If it's to defend yourself against someone else with a gun then the gun was made to attack, not self defence.


----------



## MannDude

This will be a long / slow build since I am more interested in some solar project stuff but I got my 80% lower in today for me to build a 'ghost gun' out of. 



Still need to mull out the lower receiver so I can install the trigger assembly group and safety selector. Also showing off my stippling on the P-mag. I need to stipple the rest of them as well when I find the time.



I wanted to test the fit of the lower on a regular upper. Fit was nice and tight as it should be.

_Edit: For legal reasons I should specify that the lower is still incomplete and should not be considered operable so the image with the upper receiver with a rifle barrel attached should not be considered a 'rifle'. I will be (likely) building an AR pistol with this lower once I have completed the steps to make it operable. The image with the rifle upper is for demonstration and fitting purposes only. _


----------



## PureVoltage

Very nice MannDude!

One problem with being in Canada is we can't have as many fun toys out here.

I'll try to dig up some of my old pictures. House was broken into a few years back and lost a few of them


----------



## MannDude

I've had this since December but just got to shoot it today for the first time. My local range doesn't allow shotguns anymore so went out to a buddy's place.

Unfortunately I had a couple failures to eject. May be the cheap birdshot loads I was shooting. Going to have to buy a couple boxes of different brands and types of shells to see what works best with it.

Also used my bumpfire stock for the first time today... but I didn't think ahead. I recently upgraded my AR and put a new muzzle brake on it which reduces the recoil amazingly. It really does it's job very well... HOWEVER, since the bumpfire stock is _recoil operated_ (meaning it relies on recoil to properly function) I was unable to use it properly.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

That's a pretty trench gun suh.


----------



## ChrisM

@MannDude


----------



## William

Neo said:


> For self defence we are not allowed to carry weapons, pepperspray is also vorbidden.
> 
> That is bullshit, but you do still get these thing here but if you get catched... you are screwed.
> 
> Even with a fucking knife, when you dont have a reason and get catched its gone.


Where? Pepper spray is 'technically' forbidden to carry in Germany/NL (and to some extend in Austria) but this is circumvented by selling it as "anti animal spray"


----------



## PureVoltage

This was a fun one to have.



Made me feel like the scout with his force of nature. 

It's fun watching friends try and shoot both at once with slugs in it.


----------



## raindog308

PureVoltage said:


> This was a fun one to have.


You see this? This... is my boomstick! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

(actually, the gun in the movie is a Stoeger Coach and is not made in Grand Rapids, Michigan)


----------



## MannDude

Had a great day at the range today!

Went and put 100 rounds through the 4566 and was shooting very well with it which is always fun. Still my favorite pistol and my cold weather carry piece so it was good to run some rounds through it since I've been leaving it at home the last few times I've gone to the range. Hit the 520rd mark on the AR I built today. I usually don't keep exact round counts of my pieces but have with that. Put another 50rds of 38spl through the revolver I picked up a while back, and 15rds of 357magnum through it (Not a round I enjoy shooting a lot from a snub nose revolver... quite the kick) and put another 100rds through my carry piece. Was shooting pretty well today. I'll be the first to admit I'm a pretty bad shot with a pistol usually so was proud of myself today.

Was a very nice day and the range was busy but it wasn't _packed_.

Shared a range booth with a nice family for a while today as well. Was a husband and wife and two children that were probably 10 and 12. Nice seeing families having a good time together, and seeing children learn proper gun safety and shooting. Unsure what the parents were shooting, I think they were shooting a 30-06 or 30-30. I didn't ask. Kids had a BB gun and a .22LR rifle and were being schooled on safety from the father. Looked like a fun family outing.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I've gotten back into a routine with one of my co-workers.  Mondays after work we head down to the pistol side and burn 150-200 rounds each.  Typically shooting at 25yds, but occassionally moving it out a bit if we're having a particularly good day.  Fridays, we rotate through rifles and ping on the 300, 400, 500, and 600 yard steel targets (beats walking out to setup paper targets >_>), typically 50-100 rounds each.  Good practice, range is typically pretty empty on weekdays, and is a gratifying way to end the two longest days of the week.


----------



## raindog308

I can barely see targets at 300 yards.

My best scope I have is a Leupold Mark 4 LR-T which is a 3x-9x.  Cranked to 9x, I'm fine at 200 but 300 is a bit tough.  The biggest thing I shoot is 168gr .308 (almost like it's my favorite round and is part of my forum nickname or something) which is fine at those ranges and beyond, but my middle-aged eyes would need something bigger.  

The range I go to has a sweet setup - the 200y/300y/600y range is continuous fire.  You drive out and go down steps into a trench, pull down your targets on pulleys, replace, and reraise them.  Bullets whiz by overhead


----------



## MannDude

I'm jealous that you all have nice ranges. The one by me only has a 25/35/50/100/200yard benches. It's a nice range and all, but I've never been able to use the 200yd bench as it's always full.


----------



## raindog308

They ain't cheap.  Current cost is $225 initiation and $170 a year.  Which, initiation aside, isn't that bad really - about $15 a month for unlimited use and you can add a spouse for $35, take guests, etc.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Yeesh, that's a tad bit ridiculous.  It's just a flat 150$/yr here.


----------



## MannDude

Well, my range is free which is probably why it's such shit and crowded.

There is a private range / gun club near me and membership is only like $25/yr. They do other things like hold tournaments throughout the year to generate more money for the range as well.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

And this is exactly why I hate shooting that Tula garbage:







Yes, the primer fell right the fuck out after a FTF.  I actually had to just sit and stare at this for awhile in pure disbelief.


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C said:


> And this is exactly why I hate shooting that Tula garbage:


I more then agree with you. Last time I shot my Mosin I used Tula ammo I fired a round that sounded like a bad firecracker and I could watch the bullet leave the barrel and go about 10 feet until it hit the ground.


----------



## MannDude

I've had my Mosin for almost a year now and still haven't shot it yet. Hmm... I should fix that.


----------



## PureVoltage

The range near me was I think $150 a year and $200 the first time or something silly. I only signed up to it when I first got into all the guns because they fed bs that you need it in order to get a pistol.

While it was nice and they had some fun pistol nights that was just a bunch of older guys with lots of toys, it wasn't great for having some good old fun like out in the back roads. Having the extra costs and hassle to bring friends out made me not sign back up. Plus it was home for the boarder guards, prison guards and police did their training.


----------



## MannDude

Went to the range this morning by myself for some 'group therapy'. Too bad my groupings weren't that good, but oh well. Still had fun and needed to get out of the house.


----------



## MannDude

Glocks suck. Just kidding.

This dude does some pretty insane meltdown videos.


----------



## MannDude

@Aldryic C'boas , I think I'll be headed to the range tomorrow and will take my Mosin with me... I've still not fired the damn thing yet which is shocking considering I've had it for over a year. Unsure why I've not fired it since it came with ammo as well...

Also, this is funny, my sister found a photo of me as a kid all dressed up like a cowboy. And well, things haven't changed much:


----------



## MannDude

Where is that Russian Aldy at?

I took the 1934 Russian Mosin Nagant out of the safe today and took her to the range. First time I've ever shot one, and first time this rifle has been fired since WW2. This thing is a BEAST. Holy hell. My shoulder will be sore tomorrow and the palm of my hand from racking the bolt. Only had 20rds on me, which is what came with it, so fired all of that. Went to the LGS afterwards and they were out of 7.62X54R 







Pretty happy with how well I did though... 13 on paper of 20, though keep in mind that 10 rounds I shot sitting down, and ten I shot standing up. The fella that I was sharing this lane with actually (accidentally) severed the tie wire that we hang targets on as well so 3 or 4 shots I did while the target was sideways and at an angle. Excuses excuses, I know. Though I'm still content with the results at 50yards. Next time I'll go with a proper bench rest or something so I can hold it more steady and do better.

Spent a couple hours on the pistol range though, probably did better over there.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

HAH.  Yeah, a stock mosin will tear your shoulder up pretty quick.  It's not really the kick, but the stock is a bit shorter than a conventional rifle, as they were designed for soldiers wearing thick winter gear.  Grab you one of these: www.amazon.com/dp/B001HIT1UO/

No permanent modification to the rifle.  Just pull out the two screws holding the metal buttplate, slap this on, same two screws go back in to hold it in place.  Adds enough length to the rifle to let you get a much more comfortable pull on it, and won't wear your shoulder down nearly as fast.

If you'd like to try scoping it without any permanent modification, give this a try: https://advancedrifleparts.com/product/m91-mosin-nagant-scope-mount/ .  Does require a bent bolt, but you can pick a full bent bolt up for about 50$ and not have to modify your original.  This scope mount takes about 15 minutes to install, if that:  knock out the rear sight pin, tap the mount into its place, lock it down, good to go.

I'm bringing mine out to the range tomorrow (along with my Vepr and my new SR22), so I'll snap some pics while I'm out there.


----------



## MannDude

Happy International Bacon Day!

What does bacon have to do with the gun thread? Good question... 





I like his torture test videos.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

This is my Мосина.  There are many like her, but this one is mine.







Still need to pick up some lower profile rings, and possibly grab a LER scope with 54r BDC.  Absolutely love the new stock though.


----------



## MannDude

She's a beaut @Aldryic C'boas


----------



## ChrisM

Aldryic C'boas said:


> This is my Мосина.  There are many like her, but this one is mine.



I'm going to steal that.. BRB


----------



## MannDude

The good news is that I will soon qualify for discounts on firearms... wuh'roh! There is a big law-enforcement gun supplier not too far from me and _supposedly_ I can buy things like brand new Glocks for $400. They don't deal to the public and you have to call and schedule your visit in advanced. I don't _need_ anything else but I may pick up something nice and shiny for my Christmas present to myself...


----------



## iWF-Jacob

MannDude said:


> The good news is that I will soon qualify for discounts on firearms... wuh'roh! There is a big law-enforcement gun supplier not too far from me and _supposedly_ I can buy things like brand new Glocks for $400. They don't deal to the public and you have to call and schedule your visit in advanced. I don't _need_ anything else but I may pick up something nice and shiny for my Christmas present to myself...



Ahhh yes, pro deals are a fantastic thing. I've saved so much money on buying shit (I probably don't need) You get discounts on much, much more then firearms. Check out promotive, they have a pretty good assortment of pro deals available to LE.


----------



## wlanboy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/



Quote said:


> That brings the total of mass shootings this year -- incidents where 4 or more people are killed or injured by gunfire -- to 294.
> Year 2015: 274 days and 294 mass shootings.


----------



## PureVoltage

Happy International Bacon Day!

What does bacon have to do with the gun thread? Good question... 





Ahhh, I need to get on one of his videos I've known Matt for 10+ years now awesome to see how big his channel is getting.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/
> 
> 
> 
> Quote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That brings the total of mass shootings this year -- incidents where 4 or more people are killed or injured by gunfire -- to 294.
> Year 2015: 274 days and 294 mass shootings.
Click to expand...


So why are you only commenting when a nice white school gets shot up?  Did all of the inner city gang violence not deserve any attention?


----------



## wlanboy

Thanks you for going into the trap. And I won't stop telling you things that you don't want to hear - even if you press the racist button.

1.Both things don't happen in my country.

2. I can only quote what the press is still posting. If the US press is thinking that the gang shootings are too common to write something about it. Well...  won't make the numbers looking better.


----------



## MannDude

> Thanks you for going into the trap. And I won't stop telling you things that you don't want to hear - even if you press the racist button.
> 
> 1.Both things don't happen in my country.
> 
> 2. I can only quote what the press is still posting. If the US press is thinking that the gang shootings are too common to write something about it. Well...  won't make the numbers looking better.



Most the gun violence in the United States _is_ stemmed from a small minority groups and is generally inner-city, gang related violence. This can be easily confirmed by looking up the Department of Justice and FBI related crime statistics.

Every weekend in Chicago, in a state with some incredibly strict gun laws, there are many killed and dozens and dozens wounded as a result of gun violence. For Chicago specifically, visit http://heyjackass.com/ as they have some good stats collected and keep track of all the inner city shootings that occur there.

The media doesn't glorify this because it's just another day in gangland USA. No one cares if some thugs kill each other in the street. The media doesn't. The President doesn't. Your average suburban Mom taking her kids to soccer practice doesn't.

If America's demographics were the same as your country, and if you removed the gun violence that occurs in gang ridden thug infested cities like Baltimore, St. Louis, Washington DC, Chicago, Detroit, etc... America's gun stats would honestly look a lot like most of Europe and the rest of the developed world.

I'm not saying that what happened in Oregon wasn't a tragedy, it most certainly was. But there is absolutely no gun control measure that the liberals have pushed for that would have prevented this. And besides, America's gun violence (and violence and homicide in general) is already at the lowest point it has been in decades.




I'm not for sure what could or would have prevented this, but stricter gun control measures certainly would not have prevented it. It's also easy to blame mental health, but usually mental health issues are only diagnosed or realized _after_ something crazy happens. Certainly a fucked up world we live in.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

> Thanks you for going into the trap. And I won't stop telling you things that you don't want to hear - even if you press the racist button.
> 
> 1.Both things don't happen in my country.
> 
> 2. I can only quote what the press is still posting. If the US press is thinking that the gang shootings are too common to write something about it. Well...  won't make the numbers looking better.



Funny, I said *NOTHING* about race.  You made that assumption.

And yet, you haven't quoted anything else recently, although incidents have happened.  The problem with this situation is that you are using the shooting as an excuse to trumpet your own opinions around.  Have you personally done anything?  Been part of a protest, wrote to a politician, signed a petition?  No?  Nothing except sit on the internet and use the "recent news" as a scapegoat?  You've only cheapened the tragedy by using it as an excuse to push your own opinionated "moral superiority" around?  And you're a piece of fucking trash for doing so.

Oh, I have no doubt that you'll keep running your mouth.  Unlike some, I *welcome* educated differences in opinion (and you don't even know my stance on gun laws, yet there you go making assumptions), it lets me expand my own world view.  But thank you for making it beautifully clear that there is _nothing_ to be learned from discourse with you.  So I'll tip my hat and disregard your further drivel.

_EDIT: (To clarify for folks that may not have noticed - I have nothing against folks that think we need stricter gun control.  What I have a problem with are people that use tragedies like what just happened to justify slinging their own uneducated opinions around when they've otherwise done *nothing* themselves to try and fix a problem other than bitch about it on the internet.)_


----------



## MannDude

> Happy International Bacon Day!
> 
> What does bacon have to do with the gun thread? Good question...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A good YouTube channel to follow as well. Some people don't realize he's joking half the time and get upset when he purposely calls magazines "clipazines" and says stuff like "Glock brand Glock" and refers to himself as an "operator"... haha. I think it's funny anyway. P
> 
> After you watch that, you may want some cake...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like his torture test videos.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, I need to get on one of his videos I've known Matt for 10+ years now awesome to see how big his channel is getting.
Click to expand...

Nice. I love his channel, and now that Carnik Con ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfdBzQc8yZKkk-5N-8GYHDg ) has stopped making videos, which really stinks because he was my favorite for gun info/humor, I am watching all of Matt's videos now.

I love his dry humor that some people probably would interpret as seriousness. _"Who is this fool? Clip-o-zine? Glock brand Glock? Operator? Who the fuck is this guy?"_


----------



## ALN2015

I love guns, I would rather have a gun on me or with a person with a gun then be in a gun free zone. Im sorry but gun free zones get people killed.

Is a criminal more likley to bring a gun to a gun free zone or a bar in texas where probably everyone has a gun on them?

I would say the gun free zone easier targets and minimal ways for them to fight back.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

ALN2015 said:


> I love guns, I would rather have a gun on me or with a person with a gun then be in a gun free zone. Im sorry but gun free zones get people killed.
> 
> Is a criminal more likley to bring a gun to a gun free zone or a bar in texas where probably everyone has a gun on them?
> 
> I would say the gun free zone easier targets and minimal ways for them to fight back.



It's a double-edged sword.  Any soldier that spent time with a civilian militia will tell you there is *nothing* more dangerous than firearms in the hands of people with no proper training.  I've seen a number of close calls at the range I frequent from the younger "look at my AR it's so cool" crowd that were never taught to respect or properly handle a weapon, and to be quite honest if some mad gunman ever dropped in and opened fire, I'd be more likely to take a stray round from one of those idiots than the actual shooter.

Of the top 10 leading causes of death (2013, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf) - all but TWO of those are health related.  And the remaining two are general accidents and suicide.  But we don't see fast food chains (diabetes, heart disease, stroke) or cigarettes (cancer, respiratory disease) being banned.  So no, "banning guns" is not the answer.

Gun Control is a very touchy subject.. but I think 'gun regulation' would be an acceptable middle ground.  No, I don't think people should be forced to register every firearm they own for the government to track.  Liberty vs Security/etc.  But whenever I go to Academy to pick up some brass or cleaning supplies, I *always* see more of those shitty AR15s on the racks than hunting rifles or shotguns.  And I have nothing against someone wanting to own a semi-automatic rifle - I have several myself (two Veprs and a Marlin).  But I do fully support the notion that there needs to be more than just a "let's see if you're a felon" check.  At the very least, gun ownership should require the same qualification as driving - passing a certified course where you were properly trained in handling and respecting various firearm types.  Ideally, it should be something closer to a CCL - where you have to re-qualify and an instructor watches you shoot to ensure you actually know what the hell you're doing.

Would this stop mass shootings?  Not entirely, no - you also have to correct the problems that led to the individual making those choices to begin with.  Which is why banning guns would also not be a feasible option.  If someone's intent on murder, something as simple as a "no guns" law isn't going to stop them.  Even if they couldn't get ahold of a firearm - the US has a massive farming industry, which means ammonia nitrate cannot be reasonably restricted.  Aluminum powder is very easily attainable as well, and the proper mixture of those two items is how Tannerite (explosive) is made.  Ban one or the other?  You might as well also try to ban 95% of the Wal-Mart cleaning aisle - I can make some spectacular explosives with very common items.  I mean hell, just ask the UK how well banning firearms has worked against the IRA.

So no, simply banning guns is not the answer.  Neither is 'control'.  Regulation, possibly.  Proper certification and training?  Definitely.  But even then, these are all just band-aids.  The problem is underlying, and isn't going to be resolved by kneejerk reactions.  And *CERTAINLY* won't be resolved by internet know-it-alls.


----------



## mikeyur

Took 3 months, $300, 16 hour training course + testing, but I finally got my RPAL (Canadian Firearms License)

Looking at shotguns, trying to decide between a Mossberg 500 and Remington 870.


----------



## MannDude

> Took 3 months, $300, 16 hour training course + testing, but I finally got my RPAL (Canadian Firearms License)
> 
> Looking at shotguns, trying to decide between a Mossberg 500 and Remington 870.



Awesome! What are the restrictions on what you can and can not have up there? I'm unfamiliar with Canada's law.


----------



## mikeyur

MannDude said:


> Took 3 months, $300, 16 hour training course + testing, but I finally got my RPAL (Canadian Firearms License)
> 
> Looking at shotguns, trying to decide between a Mossberg 500 and Remington 870.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome! What are the restrictions on what you can and can not have up there? I'm unfamiliar with Canada's law.
Click to expand...

So many restrictions, which most US gun owners would go "what the fuck is this shit?!?!"

I have a non-restricted & restricted license. So non-restricted is the majority of hunting rifles/shotguns/etc - pump/bolt/semi-auto/etc. Anything >18.5" barrel length is typically non-restricted. I can go to the store and walk out with one at any time, cash transaction, no paperwork. 5 round mag limit on centre-fire, no limit on rim fire.

Restricted is anything <18.5" barrel. So all handguns are restricted, as well as a lot of 'scary looking' rifles (aka anything the government deems restricted for any stupid reason). 10 round mag limit.

Restricted can't be shot in the bush/private property/etc, only at a range. Purchase requires paperwork and a short term ATT (authorization to transport) - aka license to move it from the gun shop to your house, which takes like a week or so. Then you need a long term ATT to be able to bring it to the range, so you need to be a member of a club that partners with ranges - apply for that, and then you can move it. When you move it you need all the paperwork with you and can only go to/from the range - ie. you can't keep the gun in your car, only your house -> range -> house.

And there are other restrictions around storage and stuff.

Anything full auto == prohibited, aka good luck getting one unless you're law enforcement/military.


----------



## iWF-Jacob

MannDude said:


> So many restrictions, which most US gun owners would go "what the fuck is this shit?!?!"


Yep, I'll be the first to jump on that bandwagon!


----------



## MannDude

Oh wow. That does sound like a pain and it's unfortunate you can't legally shoot "restricted" class firearms on your own private property or hunt with a rifle in that class. I know people who build AR15's specifically for taking out coyotes and stuff on farms. I guess if they were in Canada they'd have to find something else. Being required to shoot that stuff at the range is silly.

What do you guys do when you're hiking or deep in the bush? I'd want to be able to carry a large ass revolver for bears at the very least. I guess just lug around a un-restricted long rifle?


----------



## PureVoltage

He also forgot the part of hand guns we can't have a lot of those either. There is a restriction on how short the barrel can be on it or they are prohibited which means you can't take it out of your house even to the range, you can only sometimes get a permit for them to take to a gun show.

However, in most major/mid sized towns if you wanted you could get a full auto ak etc from the criminals in hours I'm sure. Gun laws like we have in Canada is just retarded. If they fixed that issue it would be a much better place to live!


----------



## mikeyur

MannDude said:


> What do you guys do when you're hiking or deep in the bush? I'd want to be able to carry a large ass revolver for bears at the very least. I guess just lug around a un-restricted long rifle?



Most of my buddies that go camping usually have someone in the group with a shotgun.



PureVoltage said:


> He also forgot the part of hand guns we can't have a lot of those either. There is a restriction on how short the barrel can be on it or they are prohibited which means you can't take it out of your house even to the range, you can only sometimes get a permit for them to take to a gun show.
> 
> However, in most major/mid sized towns if you wanted you could get a full auto ak etc from the criminals in hours I'm sure. Gun laws like we have in Canada is just retarded. If they fixed that issue it would be a much better place to live!



That's true. There are a ton of other restrictions, was trying to give the broad strokes. No shortage of silly restrictions


----------



## mikeyur

First purchase


----------



## MannDude

Awesome! What's the regulation like on barrel length there? Here in the US, anything under 16" is considered a Short Barreled Rifle and is regulated to all fuck, requiring paperwork and a NFA stamp. 

Good choice on the Mossberg though. I was going to buy one but the shop didn't have any in at the time, so get a Remington 870 instead. Both are very common shotguns and you can buy an insane amount of aftermarket parts for them if you want to.


----------



## mikeyur

MannDude said:


> Awesome! What's the regulation like on barrel length there? Here in the US, anything under 16" is considered a Short Barreled Rifle and is regulated to all fuck, requiring paperwork and a NFA stamp.
> 
> Good choice on the Mossberg though. I was going to buy one but the shop didn't have any in at the time, so get a Remington 870 instead. Both are very common shotguns and you can buy an insane amount of aftermarket parts for them if you want to.



18 or 18.5" I think, but there's some other rule regarding total length.. so some rifles have like 16" barrels but bigger receivers/stocks so they're still cool as non-restricted.

I picked it for the flexibility since it came with both a 18.5" & 28" barrel, choke set, pistol grip, etc and only ~$50 more than the cheapest 870. I'm really happy with it, put about 100 rounds through it today.

I'm screwed though.. I'm hooked, already looking at the next purchase. I thought about a cheap .22 for plinking.. but for ~$20 more I can get a surplus SKS which actually shoots something with some kick and isn't too crazy expensive to shoot (although seems like a bitch to maintain if shooting the cheap corrosive surplus ammo).

I also wandered over to the pistols section of the store and was checking out some Glocks... This is going to get expensive.


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## gordonrp

Nice purchase Mike!


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## MannDude

Sorry for the bad photo:





Decided to take the rotary tool out and put some polishing pads on it. About thirty minutes with some Mother's Mag polish and I was able to get a mirror like finish on the barrel and slide stop lever on my custom Kahr CM9. Ignore the white specs... that's dust . I still need to take apart the trigger assembly and polish the trigger so it matches the rest. The slide stop lever and barrel both were originally the same dull color as the trigger. Not really a performance or or practical modification like my others, but it looks nice.


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## MannDude

I need to do some polishing on the trigger assembly on my AR to reduce friction on contact points. Lots of good tutorials online for this and should make for a much nicer and cleaner trigger pull while slighlty reducing the trigger weight too. House is a mess and I need to clear off an area of a desk for some winter/cold weather gun smithing.


Hoping to get a reloading bench setup this winter and am thinking of buying some ceracoating supplies as well...


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## mikeyur

SKS or Ruger 10/22 for the next purchase?


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## MannDude

mikeyur said:


> SKS or Ruger 10/22 for the next purchase?



Both.


Actually, IDK. I want a 10/22 myself for plinking. I don't have a 22LR rifle. Either one would be fun.


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## mikeyur

MannDude said:


> Both.



Of course! It's just a matter of which to purchase first - gotta spread out the purchases a bit


Leaning towards the 10/22 first


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## mikeyur

Alright, it was meant to be. Walked into the gun store and they had a used 10/22 that just came in, had only been on the rack for a couple hours.


In awesome shape and super clean, came with 2 x 25 round mags and a loader, plus a laser on the front - for the same price as a new one without any of the extras.


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## MannDude

Awesome! They're great rifles for the price and 22LR is so fun/cheap to shoot. Practical for target practice or hunting small game like rabbits 


Mmmm.... rabbits.


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## mikeyur

MannDude said:


> Awesome! They're great rifles for the price and 22LR is so fun/cheap to shoot. Practical for target practice or hunting small game like rabbits
> 
> 
> Mmmm.... rabbits.



Yeah. I'm passing on the SKS for now, way more expensive to shoot. Can't beat $25-35 (CAD) for a brick of 350-500 rounds. Plenty of fun for pennies.


Also good for when I bring ladies shooting, although I like to tenderize their shoulders a bit first with a couple 3" slugs.


SKS is definitely next.. they're like $200 for a Russian military surplus one in awesome condition... and the flip-up bayonet makes it 1000x cooler.


Shotgun -> .22 -> SKS -> Glock(?) -> ???


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## Nick_A

Glock should be in front of any other purchases. Multiple Glocks...


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## mikeyur

Nick_A said:


> Glock should be in front of any other purchases. Multiple Glocks...



It's last on my list due to Canadian gun laws. I need to join a gun club with a partner range, then buy the gun and wait a week or two for registration & a temporary authorization to transport (ATT) a restricted firearm from the store to my house, then I need to submit a request for a long term ATT to be able to move the gun between my house and the range (can take weeks/months for the RCMP & Chief Firearms Officer to approve).


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## MannDude

Nick_A said:


> Glock should be in front of any other purchases. Multiple Glocks...



I'm looking at a Glock 17L, competition model (Competition trigger, ported  barrel) for a pretty reasonable price. I qualify for law enforcement discounts now and that has me all excited. But I also wouldn't mind some of the new MOS models either. My Glock 19 is my favorite shooter out of all my pistols.


Unfortunately for me money is limited so I can't buy everything I want and I don't live in the country where I can set up an awesome backyard range, haha.


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## MannDude

Decided to get the dremel out and cut some material away on my Glock 19 last week...


I may take just a hair more out where the grip meets the trigger guard. Right now I have it sort of angled in and a bit more material can be removed without impacting anything negatively. It already feels better with the trigger guard undercut and the grip/trigger guard area milled out a bit. You get a higher grip on it this way, reduces the bore axis a bit and the trigger guard mod helps remove the "Glock knuckle" people get when shooting a lot at the range. I'm surprised Glock doesn't just produce their firearms like this since so many people do it themselves.


Next on the to-do list is polish the trigger a bit. May eventually replace some trigger components but going to first polish the parts that matter and see how noticeable of a difference that makes before spending money on new trigger assembly and springs. The Glock stock trigger isn't bad.. but as with everything, it could be made smoother.


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## willie

They are coming!!!


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## MannDude

SoonTM


Actually it'll be a long while before I get to finish this. I bought the Polymer80 80% lower last year sometime when they were on sale and it's been sitting in my safe for months. Decided to finally take it out to the garage and mill it out. I know some folks are iffy about polymer lowers, but really they don't take much of a beating and don't see much stress. The weak point would be where the buffer tube threads into the lower but it should be fine as long as you're not lifting / raising the rifle by the buffer tube or stock alone...


My plans include a 2-tone AR pistol chambered in 300BLK.


This is a low priority project since it's winter and I rarely have day light hours to enjoy going to the range, and when I do, it's winter and cold... Hoping to complete by mid Spring - Summer though.


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## MannDude

@Francisco @Aldryic C'boas





The above is an unnamed member of the BuyVM service abuse task force.


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## PowerUpHosting-Udit

MannDude said:


> @Francisco @Aldryic C'boas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above is an unnamed member of the BuyVM service abuse task force.



Wondering how many abusers has he taken down so far.


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## Francisco

That's amazing.


The pony will be pleased.


Francisco


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> The above is an unnamed member of the BuyVM service abuse task force.



I just can't stop watching it..


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## mikeyur

The good shooting spots are snowed in or closed.. and I've got 2 boxes of 3" Federal slugs and a busted old Supermicro 1U box that's begging to be filled with lead.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Welp... haven't posted in awhile, figured it was about time for an update.  Cleaned up my workshop a bit today, put some new grips on my Beretta, figured it was time to get some updated pics up.









M91/30 Mosin Nagant, in 7,62x54r.  This beast is an absolute cannon, and the Boyd stock makes it a very comfortable shot.









The Finnish version, M39.  Better length of pull than the default 91/30 stock, and fantastic condition.  From the irons, I average 2,5" groups at 300y after shaving the front sight from a block to a finer point.









Last of my 54r rifles, a Molot Vepr.  Puts crappy PSLs to shame - this is probably the closest you can get to an actual Dragunov without shelling out 10k+.









The Vepr54's little brother - chambered in 7,62x39, Molot makes the finest quality AK platform you can find.  I'll be replacing that synthetic handguard with a proper wooden grip pretty soon, and staining to match the 54.









Yugoslav SKS, 7,62x39.  Fantastic condition - that's the original stock, not a replacement.  One of my favourites - you can shut off the gas system and effectively turn it into a bolt-action rifle, which will blow the minds of anyone claiming that the x39 is an inherently inaccurate round.  200y, I average 2" groups with the irons.









Was looking around for a 45ACP, ended up picking this bad boy up at a recent gunshow.  Was a toss-up between this or Ruger's 1911, but I *really* do not like the backstrap safety so prevalent on most 1911s, so the SR45 was the winner.  Also my first polymer frame pistol, which I'm a bit iffy on (I do *not* like Glocks and Glock clones), but it's winning me over.  The only real gripe I have is the weird rear sight - it looks a bit like a rounded hill, which makes proper sight pictures awkward.









Work in progress.  I really wanted the original TT-33, but thanks to their scarcity at decent prices I went with the Romanian TTC instead.  Have some rather nice wooden Marschal Grips coming in, and I'll be plugging the hole in the frame left behind from the removed safety.  The 7,62x25 Tok rounds don't have significant recoil, but I ended up leaving the compensator bushing since the boom puts most 357s to shame >_>









Another recent acquisition, and in need of proper panels.  Star's Super B was mass-produced for the Germans during WWII when Walther couldn't keep up with Luger production.  This pistol is chambered in 9mm, and is *ridiculously* accurate - with a little concentration I have no problem keeping a 3" group at 50y.  Easily the most accurate handgun I own.









Keeping with 9mm - Ruger's P89 was my first handgun.  An absolute dream to shoot, the only modification I've made was the addition of the CrimsonTrace laser grip.  I don't believe in lasers for target shooting, but this was my open-carry pistol for a very long time, and in an "oh shit" situation you don't always have time for a proper sight picture, and every second counts.  Ridiculously rugged - I've fired at least 25,000 rounds through this pistol, and all of the factory parts are still intact and in great shape.









Was pretty torn between the M9 and the 92FS (yes, I know the differences are negligible).  Ended up with the 92FS, and after swapping the polymer guide rod for steel and replacing the original grips with these beauties, this is my current open carry piece and probably my favourite of the bunch.









P-64 Makarov.  My current concealed/backup carry, and despite it's small size a very comfortable handgun to shoot.  Some folks insist on 45ACP for personal carry - I've seen firsthand what these hot-loaded 9x18 HP rounds can do, and am more than comfortable with it's capability.  The only downside to this piece is the slide won't lock to the rear without a mag in place, and it utilizes that funky release at the bottom of the magwell.  Not ideal for fast reloading, but if I managed to miss 8 rounds in close quarters then I didn't stand a chance to begin with.









(Yes, I'm a Ruger fanboy.  Blow me.)  Picked this piece up when 9mm (my usual go-to for target and practice shooting) spiked awhile back to take advantage of the low cost of 22LR.  Currently my daughter's favourite, since it fits her hands comfortably and doesn't have near the kick of the Makarov.



Was going to snap a few picks of the ammo cabinet and gun safe as well, but was a bit too dark.  Perhaps another day.


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## drmike

Pretty 

Nothing warms a home like a loaded boom stick... well except for a wood stove.


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## MannDude

@Aldryic C'boas nice collection you have there. I figured I should update this as well. Boy, do I have wood! No, really:





Bought some wood grips for my 4566 last year, almost forgot about it since they had to come all the way from Turkey and took forever... They're beautiful, and I'm glad they look as good as they do. I wasn't quite for sure what wood finish I wanted and what would go best with the polished look. I think I chose well. I highly recommend http://www.ksdgrips.com/ for anyone interested in some beautiful wood grips for any pistol. They produce a lot of grips for guns, like mine, that do not have many aftermarket parts. The only options I had for grips for my 4566 was some Hogue grips and they looked tacky in both the plastic and wood versions.


THAT SILVER INLAY THO





She's a beaut I tell ya. A stone cold fox. Haven't shot her yet but she's been collecting dust for a bit. Got some steel polish mags for her, don't like the look of the polymer ones. DAT WOODGRAIN THO.


Sorry for the shitty photos.


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## ChrisM

I want this! Don't really need another but this would work good for another carry.


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## WSWD

ChrisM said:


> View attachment 5196
> 
> I want this! Don't really need another but this would work good for another carry.




Just bought the 9mm model in December (for way more, unfortunately) as my main carry weapon. The Glock 21 I was using was just a tiny bit big to carry all day comfortably.


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## MannDude

This is hands down my favorite pistol to shoot. Feels like it was built to fit my hand, and pretty darn accurate. I made this video after buying it, not the best shooting but the groups are pretty good for the distance I was shooting at and for it being only the second time having shot it after buying it. I need more trigger time with it and I'd like to do some IDPA competition shooting with it eventually. Out of the box I was shooting it much better than my Glock even though I've put a good 2,500rds or more through her by now I'd estimate.


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## Jonathan

WSWD said:


> Just bought the 9mm model in December (for way more, unfortunately) as my main carry weapon. The Glock 21 I was using was just a tiny bit big to carry all day comfortably.



Mine's been with me for several years now. It's a great carry gun (due for a cleaning no less).

 

I have the Crimson Trace laser on it which I do not recommend.


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## MannDude

Lately I've been rotating back and forth between my Kahr CM9 and Glock 19 for carry. I've never had any issues with either one.

I did get to fondle the new Smith and Wesson's at the LGS a month or two ago, it was right when they came out. My god, they felt great in the hand. The trigger definitely feels better than the older model as well. Plus they had it in FDE. It took a lot of strength to not throw my credit card at the shop owner and practice being a responsible adult who doesn't make impulse buys. They're priced reasonably well.


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## Jonathan

If I had to pick one thing to complain about on the shield it'd definitely be the trigger. One of the guys in the office put an aftermarket trigger (can't remember which one) on his shield and it's smooooooooth.


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## WSWD

A lot of people have complained about the factory trigger. It is a little more "mushy" than my Glock, but I don't really have any problem with it. I've heard the same about the aftermarket triggers. Heard they are incredibly nice.


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