# The truth about ColoCrossing



## Jack (Aug 21, 2013)

Content removed by me.


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## Francisco (Aug 21, 2013)

Welp.

Really, I have no idea how to comment on this.

Francisco


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## Artie (Aug 21, 2013)

Are you sure he wanted that posted?


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## Jack (Aug 21, 2013)

.


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## Jack (Aug 21, 2013)

,


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## lv-matt (Aug 21, 2013)

Erm,



Francisco said:


> Welp.
> 
> Really, I have no idea how to comment on this.
> 
> Francisco


Echo that.


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## drmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Wowzers, where's my Captain to go with my @Jack.

Jack needs a PIMP avatar.

No kidding, they purged this from LEB/LET?  At least those clowns are consistent.

So now the question is how many other folks are moving away from Colocrossing or reducing their servers there?

Dirty, ugly underhanded business they are.

I still wonder why Shinkle cut and ran with the same silence.  Robbie and Jere are real tight.   So CC did multiple things wrong and bound to have something to do with it.


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## MannDude (Aug 21, 2013)

Well.... CNServers better get prepared.


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## drmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Warming up the CC sponsored DDoS attacks in 3.... 2..... 1.....


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## MannDude (Aug 21, 2013)

So Jack, you've pulled out of Colocrossing 100% too, right?

Banned from LET yet?


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## Jack (Aug 21, 2013)

MannDude said:


> So Jack, you've pulled out of Colocrossing 100% too, right?
> 
> Banned from LET yet?


.


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## Zach (Aug 21, 2013)

For Jon:


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## Francisco (Aug 21, 2013)

You know for the longest time I was sure Rob was just one of Chris' alter ego's.

Francisco


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## jarland (Aug 21, 2013)

Jack said:


> Probably not but Biloh deserves the negative rep if anything happens to EOR we know where to look.


Yep. Plenty of people have plenty of dirt on Biloh and just don't see enough value in using it. Should he increase the value of that, it's his own grave he's digging. Period. No conspiracy necessary. He wears a smile and he screws people over. It's not my ballgame, but I still hate watching it.


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## scv (Aug 21, 2013)

Just another reason for hosts outside of CC to avoid LEB. I only bother with LET since it's not subject to the artificial listing delay - and even that's iffy.


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## concerto49 (Aug 21, 2013)

Jack said:


> Yeah but I don't think Jon is aware yet as Chuckle's dealt with the cancellation tickets.
> 
> Not as of yet.


He will  be now from the posts.


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## kaniini (Aug 21, 2013)

All I am seeing here is more evidence that not bothering with the new LowEndBox was a good decision on my part.


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## scv (Aug 21, 2013)

kaniini said:


> All I am seeing here is more evidence that not bothering with the new LowEndBox was a good decision on my part.


I had a single posting on LEB which did bring in quite a lot of traffic but it took a good month and a half to get listed. I submitted a ticket for another listing a month after, and it STILL hasn't been updated. It seems more and more they're unwilling to maintain the ruse.


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## drmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Francisco said:


> You know for the longest time I was sure Rob was just one of Chris' alter ego's.


We all thought that Fran!

Problem is I am 100% sure Rob came to CC via Jere.

Remember Jere liked to try to give folks a chance to get involved in the industry, learn the support systems, etc.  It is why we saw one weird misplaced sysadmin/support person in CVPS dump initially.

I am 100% certain the end blow out with EoR was genuine and at some point any control CC/CVPS/Jere had over the situation / EoR was gone since Jere was shown the door and insulted by Jon boy.  Probably a bit more to the back side since I know EoR was shuffling servers and had a contract proposed by CC for server reductions, give backs and then give aways of free old generation dedicated to sweeten the deal.


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## fizzyjoe908 (Aug 21, 2013)

Maybe more of this sort of stuff _should_ be put publicly available (with correct party allowance of course). I'm not a fan of flaming companies that do not deserve it but CC just might. Hopefully this will get less people to use them. From what I can see, a lot of newer VPS and...dare I say it here...Minecraft hosts are using CC for hardware. There are plenty of other hardware providers within all CC locations that can offer the same specs for similar or cheaper pricing.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 21, 2013)

Artie said:


> Are you sure he wanted that posted?



tl;dr - Never tell Jack anything in confidence.  No matter whether you wish it secret or not, it'll end up posted on some forum.  Bit of a scary position for a provider with access to clients' data to be taking, IMHO.


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## clarity (Aug 21, 2013)

@Aldryic you always nail the post right on the head.


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## perennate (Aug 21, 2013)

Well, I found a new signature for my LET account!


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## Jack (Aug 21, 2013)

Difference between posting something like this to providing client's data...


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 21, 2013)

You posted information sent to you via private correspondence with absolutely no idea whether or not the writer would acquiesce.  I see no difference between not trusting you to keep your mouth shut, and not trusting you to rifle through my VPS.


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## perennate (Aug 21, 2013)

@Jack you should post a review of End of Reality and then include that at the bottom.


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## WebSearchingPro (Aug 21, 2013)

Hmm seems things have vanished  Change of heart?


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## concerto49 (Aug 21, 2013)

WebSearchingPro said:


> Hmm seems things have vanished  Change of heart?


He didn't want to become the 2nd EOR.


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## MartinD (Aug 22, 2013)

Okay, so I've brought this thread back out in to the public eye. A few reasons;

1) Don't start a thread on a public forum if you're not prepared to have the world see, read and remember it.

2) There were perfectly legitimate conversations going on in this thread as a result of the OP.

Although some of the content has since been removed (not by us, but by the OP) I'm sure you can get the jist of what went on here. I'm sure if you need to find out more, those who read the original will be more than happy to fill you in.

*Respice adspice prospice*


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## MannDude (Aug 22, 2013)

The only reason I took the thread down originally was due to the request of Jack. At the time he had removed his content, but said Robby was unhappy him posting it here. It was more out of respect of EOR that I did what I did. In hindsight it could have been someone else unhappy who put pressure on him instead, may not have been Robby.

I also got asked to remove another thread, not by Jack though.

Jon is more than welcome to come here and share his side. If it's not true, I'd love to know his version.


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## johnlth93 (Aug 22, 2013)

It seem that I've missed all the fun


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## Jack (Aug 22, 2013)

MartinD said:


> Okay, so I've brought this thread back out in to the public eye. A few reasons;
> 
> 1) Don't start a thread on a public forum if you're not prepared to have the world see, read and remember it.
> 
> ...


1) Robby said to remove it, I wasn't too bothered but as his request I did.

2) It sure was.


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## Jack (Aug 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> The only reason I took the thread down originally was due to the request of Jack. At the time he had removed his content, but said Robby was unhappy him posting it here. It was more out of respect of EOR that I did what I did. In hindsight it could have been someone else unhappy who put pressure on him instead, may not have been Robby.
> 
> I also got asked to remove another thread, not by Jack though.
> 
> Jon is more than welcome to come here and share his side. If it's not true, I'd love to know his version.


Jon wasn't bothered, I was chatting with him via Skype last night.


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (Aug 22, 2013)

What the blooming feck happened in here. Someone fill me in.


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## wlanboy (Aug 22, 2013)

Looks like I missed something.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 22, 2013)

Not even a google cache - pretty crappy of you to remove everything @Jack considering it's a public forum >.<


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## KuJoe (Aug 22, 2013)

The screenshots even showed that the e-mails were not to be shared publicly...  :wacko:


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## kunnu (Aug 22, 2013)

Why you remove your content? opcorn:


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 22, 2013)

Reece said:


> Not even a google cache - pretty crappy of you to remove everything @Jack considering it's a public forum >.<


It was pretty crappy to post private corespondence without consent in the first place.


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## Jack (Aug 22, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> The screenshots even showed that the e-mails were not to be shared publicly...  :wacko:


I only saw that after I posted it.


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## scv (Aug 22, 2013)

Jack said:


> I only saw that after I posted it.


I hate to sound like a prick, but did you even read his correspondence in depth before jumping to the idea of posting it? It just seems a little hasty to me.


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## Jack (Aug 22, 2013)

scv said:


> I hate to sound like a prick, but did you even read his correspondence in depth before jumping to the idea of posting it? It just seems a little hasty to me.


I read what he said to me yes, but as it added a video to the end of his email I didn't read his signature.


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## Amitz (Aug 22, 2013)

Meeh. It sucks not having seen those screenshots...


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## MannDude (Aug 22, 2013)

Amitz said:


> Meeh. It sucks not having seen those screenshots...


Basically:

Q: Why did you pull out of Colocrossing?

A: Ordered a lot of equipment, 8 months later and still wasn't delivered.

Followed by them jumping ship, then _supposedly _Jon removing all their posts/offers from LET/LEB.

See the conflict of interest in running/owning LE* when it's ran by a provider? Not the first time Jon has tried to silence someone. I believe the OP started a thread on here in the past that was later edited because Jon told him not to be posting on vpsBoard. Later he wised up and cancelled all of his Colocrossing servers, good too, because I'd not want to directly or indirectly contribute to Colocrossing.


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## drmike (Aug 22, 2013)

I've long said that Colocrossing strong arms smaller provider customers.  This confirms that.

Someone needs to tell Biloh that you can't strongarm folks like this.  This isn't a game Jon, it is life.  Some small providers are putting everything on the line when they spend money and start their company.  Sad when they choose Colocrossing and then get manipulated into bad decisions.

Skype was blowing up all over last night.  Unsure what Biloh is up to but he sure wanted the chatter to stop and it drives him nuts that vpsBoard isn't under his control.  How nuts?  At least 4-5 providers (who are Colocrossing customers) made contact about trying to ice over the threads and make them go bye-bye on here.  

Note to Jon and others, vpsBoard isn't for sale.  You can't buy it and you certainly aren't going to bully anyone over here.


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## Jade (Aug 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Note to Jon and others, vpsBoard isn't for sale.  You can't buy it and you certainly aren't going to bully anyone over here.


^^ Yes. Love this.


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## MannDude (Aug 22, 2013)

Jade said:


> ^^ Yes. Love this.


I've been offered $20K + 30% recurring of ad-revenue, but not from CC.

Not for sale.

But back on topic.


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## Deleted (Aug 26, 2013)

<removed by MannDude by request of author>


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## MannDude (Aug 26, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> <removed by MannDude by request of author>


Gary 'Monk' Stanley... that's a name I've heard here and there... 

Welcome to vpsBoard.

'Supposedly', EOR waited, and waited patiently for Jon to deliver some equipment they had paid for/been paying for. I believe the time was 8 months. It never arrived, they bounced out of CC, and in return had their online presence wiped from LET/LEB which CC owns. Jon doesn't like it when people speak up or speak out about Colocrossing.

I say 'supposedly' because Robby hasn't came here and said that's not the truth, and Jon hasn't disputed it. A member here emailed Robby and what I said above was from his own words.


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## concerto49 (Aug 26, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Gary 'Monk' Stanley... that's a name I've heard here and there...
> 
> Welcome to vpsBoard.
> 
> ...


Considering that Jack @ DotVPS now left CC and nothing's happened - I don't think we know the entire story of EOR.

It might not just be CC to blame. We don't know.


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## Deleted (Aug 26, 2013)

<removed by MannDude by request of author>


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## MannDude (Aug 26, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> <removed by MannDude by request of author>


LET/LEB = LowEndTalk and LowEndBox... Colocrossing bought these sites back in.. well, not sure of the exact date. It's been a year or so. They kept it hush hush. LowEndBox is a platform used to more or less promote companies that utilize Colocrossing more than other companies. I mean, makes sense, promote those so they grow and in turn order more servers from CC. Can't say I blame them, but still incredibly shady since the deal was a silent one. Business is business, I guess. It's just their effort to dominate the 'low end' market.


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## Deleted (Aug 26, 2013)

<removed by MannDude by request of author>


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## MannDude (Aug 26, 2013)

Certain content removed by request.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Is that *really* G. Monk Stanley?

Very interesting to see you here 

The daycare kids ears must be burning right now.   Good time BTW to re-emerge and look around the industry.   Pre-game show right now, so still time to get that popcorn made and pull up a comfy chair.


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## Kris (Aug 27, 2013)

I was summoned / linked to this thread from Monkburger to only see it all cleared.

I miss anything?


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## MannDude (Aug 27, 2013)

Kris said:


> I was summoned / linked to this thread from Monkburger to only see it all cleared.
> 
> I miss anything?


He asked for his posts to be removed for fear of Biloh retaliation with legal stuffs.

Nothing much was missed, just a short introduction by himself and a couple replies in response to my comments made on his posts.

In hindsight, perhaps, he should have posted from an account not linked to himself and he could have shared more without proof of it being him.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 27, 2013)

We should have a private forum for this stuff, out of public eyes.

Especially since all that info keeps on being deleted.


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## mud (Aug 27, 2013)

This thread really makes no sense right now ...


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

So we have:

1. Jack, a provider in the community who rented servers from Colocrossing.  He became displeased with CC and vocal (his posts here).  Jon and Linda Biloh started their yelling and legal threats or just to pull down GRE tunnels on Jack.  Jack retreated by pulling the posts.

2. Monk, a former high profile Colocrossing employee and the center of much mystery in the LET/LEB and vpsBoard communities.   He appears from the dead, posts nothing of great controversy, but relating to CC.  Soon thereafter, he either knows what happens to folks or Jon and Linda Biloh do their two step dance of yelling and legal threats.  So down it comes.

You all picked a great time to show up and share.  Let the shit fly guys.  The blood will wash out in the laundry.


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## scv (Aug 27, 2013)




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## MartinD (Aug 27, 2013)

<User hat, 2c's>

I'm getting a bit bored of people removing their posts or keeping their mouths shut simply because they're worried in case CC/CVPS/WHOEVER starts 'legal' action and what not.

Unless you have done something wrong to CC/CVPS (and I mean wrong... as in stolen from them, damaged their property, shat in their kettle) then you have absolutely nothing to fear by speaking out. This is, of course, on the basis that you no longer have any services with them (<- this in itself shows just how ridiculous the situation is).

So how about we all grab our respective testicles, give them a shake and say what we want to say? There is no fear of legal repercussions if you have done nothing wrong. There is no libel here, no slander, no other legal suits going to be brought to your door. All this crap about "serving papers" is just that - crap. If papers are to be served then they have to be S-E-R-V-E-D. There has to be a very, very good reason for that happening too because it's not cheap and there is no guarantee it'll be successful.

Just an FYI with regards to the posts that have 'gone missing', they are missing from the forum but not the ether. On a similar note, and as I mentioned here previously, think before you post. If you post something then let it stick, don't turn in to a dummy-sucking gloop of dribble and remove them or request removal - it invalidates any ounce of credibility you may seek later down the line when you DO try and provide information.

SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY OR SHUT UP.

</My 2c.>


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Me, oh my, did I say: "Jon and Linda Biloh"? Err, scratch that, that's not the name of either party.  

Jon(athan) (?) Bilohskijikaski and Linda Clarke,  that's more like it.

Neither are going to "subpoena" anyone or sue.   That's been thrown dozens of times at people in passing years.  That Chicago sock puppet likes to throw around the same stuff.

I am waiting for them to misappropriate some DMCA takedowns though.  Getting to the point that spin won't make it all better and bury reality in the search heap.

Fact is, since they are a corporation ala Velocity Gaming Servers, doing anything legal requires representation and filing by lawyer.  Yes, you cannot represent a corporation as an individual or it would pierce the corporate veil of protection.  Meaning, even if the Court so stupidly allowed it, any counter claim could be made against the representatives acting outside of the veil in their personal capacity (I'll sue you for your beloved rock collection).

Hiring those monopoly men called lawyers who have exclusive representation ability of said corporation in courts of law costs money = retainer fees if they don't have such socked into a lawyer already plus paralegal billable, plus the lawyer, plus costs for filing and service.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 27, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Neither are going to "subpoena" anyone or sue.   That's been thrown dozens of times at people in passing years.  That Chicago sock puppet likes to throw around the same stuff.


This exactly.  Chris threatened me with lawsuits multiple times over my commentary in the past - he was told to go fuck himself and be grateful that he was worth enough of my time to even receive the reply. 



buffalooed said:


> I am waiting for them to misappropriate some DMCA takedowns though.  Getting to the point that spin won't make it all better and bury reality in the search heap.


Plus, DMCA is incredibly shaky grounds to begin with.  For starters, I reject email DMCA completely.  Signed postal mail only (digital 'signatures' aren't worth shit IMO).  I also won't accept any DMCA sent by a 'representative' or anyone other than the party/person affected, proper legal retainers excepted.  Which brings the next fun bit...



buffalooed said:


> Fact is, since they are a corporation ala Velocity Gaming Servers, doing anything legal requires representation and filing by lawyer.






buffalooed said:


> Hiring those monopoly men called lawyers who have exclusive representation ability of said corporation in courts of law costs money = retainer fees if they don't have such socked into a lawyer already plus paralegal billable, plus the lawyer, plus costs for filing and service.


Costs of actually hiring a lawyer.  We're talking about a company that can't afford to provide health insurance for its employees. (Based on when I interviewed with them for a job way back when). 

Now for the rest of this paragraph, I'm not going to reveal any sources, so feel free to treat this as pure rumour.. but it's fairly easy to see the pieces.  I don't see any type of legitimate legal counsel being hired.  I really don't think they can afford it.  Several folks over the past year have walked out of CC, and have been _begged_ to stay, and even offered lower prices if they did.  Combine this with repo'd gear being crammed into CVPS and firesaled at ridiculous prices (an obvious "need cash now" when the plans are unsustainable), and it makes me wonder if all of the nonsense sales are just a scramble attempt to get their bills paid each month.

_tl;dr_ - I don't see them scraping up enough cash to retain legal counsel (not to mention court costs/etc) purely to try and chase down someone that posted things on _THE INTERNET_ that made them sad.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

I wonder if every time we are mean on the internet to Jon boy if Linda gets mad and punishes some kid in the daycare?


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Costs of actually hiring a lawyer.  We're talking about a company that can't afford to provide health insurance for its employees. (Based on when I interviewed with them for a job way back when).


Oh, insurance for the new upcoming mandatory nationwide experiment.  Sure that will do many companies in.  

Problem is, CC doesn't have proper employees.  Well, very few.   They love contractors and non employment work relations.

What they couldn't afford or didn't want to afford before was withholding income taxes from employees or actually remitting them to the State of New York, as per public records.

As far as paying employees goes, legendary abuses.  Unrealistic always available hours and low pay.   At least one employee snapped in spectacular fashion after having had enough.   Where is that ChicagoVPS fellow to cuss at me and call me that poor lads name again?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 27, 2013)

To be fair, I'm sure the 'legit' employees have insurance/benefits/whatever the law requires.  But when I asked about having coverage for myself and my daughter, I was told "You'd have to provide your own".  This, in combination with their stipulation that I would have to leave Frantech/BuyVM in order to work for them (it's a conflict of interest ) is why I turned down the job.


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## mpkossen (Aug 27, 2013)

scv said:


> I had a single posting on LEB which did bring in quite a lot of traffic but it took a good month and a half to get listed. I submitted a ticket for another listing a month after, and it STILL hasn't been updated. It seems more and more they're unwilling to maintain the ruse.


It's something I hope can be changed. There's just a lot of offers in the queue, what can I say?



MannDude said:


> LET/LEB = LowEndTalk and LowEndBox... Colocrossing bought these sites back in.. well, not sure of the exact date. It's been a year or so. They kept it hush hush. LowEndBox is a platform used to more or less promote companies that utilize Colocrossing more than other companies. I mean, makes sense, promote those so they grow and in turn order more servers from CC. Can't say I blame them, but still incredibly shady since the deal was a silent one. Business is business, I guess. It's just their effort to dominate the 'low end' market.


They bought it just before Alex came public with his SysAdmin account, which was in May I believe. Before that, there were heavily involved but it was still owned by Chief/Joel (who didn't do/care much for it). I heard they saved the place because of Joel not being interested/involved enough.


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## MartinD (Aug 27, 2013)

CC 'saved' LET/LEB?

:lol:


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

> They bought it just before Alex came public with his SysAdmin account, which was in May I believe.


Alex didn't come willingly into the public with this info. 

@Nick_A discovered that Alex Vial was the recipient of the BuySellAds account.   When he asked about it on LET the account info was quickly changed to some non descript Gmail or similar email account.

The only reason this info was confirmed was due to the multiple hacks of LET.

The original info on the BSA account was floated around in February-March of this year.

The BSA account itself has a date of February 2012.

It's kind of ironic that Joel gets the site and within that first month of having it, it gets DDoS'd and magically Colocrossing is hosting it and "saving it".   It was PR spin for CC's hosting and to disguise the fact that they snaked the site, a diversion.  CC doesn't even specialize in DDoS *protection*  services.  They'll gladly null you.



> There's just a lot of offers in the queue, what can I say?


The offers in the queue excuse 

Well you can start thinning those offers out by eliminating the CC owned companies like Hudson Valley and ChicagoVPS.

After that you can stop mass posting the offers from your buddy at B2 Net / ServerHub / Aim2Game / we run more front companies than Colocrossing.  If you need some help on that, we have a thread over here for that shit organization:

http://vpsboard.com/topic/963-thread-for-buffalooed-to-investigate/?hl=investigate

What can you say?  You can say something unique to Colocrossing, the truth.


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## Francisco (Aug 27, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I've been offered $20K + 30% recurring of ad-revenue, but not from CC.
> 
> Not for sale.
> 
> But back on topic.


So here's my question, who made this offer?

Francisco


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## SeriesN (Aug 27, 2013)

Francisco said:


> So here's my question, who made this offer?
> 
> 
> Francisco


A very well known name that became famous recently.


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## MartinD (Aug 27, 2013)

Francisco said:


> So here's my question, who made this offer?
> 
> 
> Francisco


Not sure if Curtis want's to share but it wasn't from anyone involved in CC.


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## Amitz (Aug 27, 2013)

Sharing is caring.


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## SeriesN (Aug 27, 2013)

Amitz said:


> Sharing is caring.


Not really sir.


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## Francisco (Aug 27, 2013)

MartinD said:


> Not sure if Curtis want's to share but it wasn't from anyone involved in CC.


Mind splitting the convo then?

Francisco


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

A moderation split of this thread is requested.

New thread:  Who made an Offer to Buy vpsBoard

Please


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## Deleted (Aug 27, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> So we have:
> 
> 1. Jack, a provider in the community who rented servers from Colocrossing.  He became displeased with CC and vocal (his posts here).  Jon and Linda Biloh started their yelling and legal threats or just to pull down GRE tunnels on Jack.  Jack retreated by pulling the posts.
> 
> ...


I was browsing a thread and I came across this one. I didn't know if Robby was still in business or not so I decided to make a comment. I did some consulting work for him (I wrote him a booster module that made his servers some of the best in the world so I wanted to see how he was doing), wasn't sure if he followed this thread or not on a different name.

As for someone else mentioning I shouldn't request my posts be deleted, I simply do not want threats of legal action. I have more to loose as a former employee (which makes me a prime target of lawsuits). This is why myself, Cody, Brian, Blake, Shenkle (or however you spell his last name) won't comment on anything because we were threatened at some point. I was threatened last year, in not so many words. 

I am no longer an employee there and have not been one for a long time.


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## serverian (Aug 27, 2013)

Root Level Tech probably.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> I didn't know if Robby was still in business


He is   The TL;DR is that CC failed to deliver servers over many months and he supposedly said no more, contract void and left.   They responded by using the Lowendbox and Lowendtalk sites to remove all mentions, posts, offers, etc. for EoR and hide behind the logic that such was removed for.... drumroll.... legal action or pending legal -- as if someone was suing the other.



Monkburger said:


> I simply do not want threats of legal action. I have more to loose as a former employee (which makes me a prime target of lawsuits).


Threats are threats, words.  Sadly something must go on up there in Buffalo that you are all privy to.  Something exhibiting some real anger or someone swinging a big power stick.  It isn't boy wonder and his daycare mama that have you all buttoned up from the mouth down.  I know they threaten people with legal action.  Have a list of people they've spouted like that about.  ZERO superhero action from them.  All bark, no bite.

You've been an enigma of sorts to me.  Lots of interest has surrounded your name for quite a while (related to CC).  Obviously, you must know your name appears on their employee roles for Velocity.  Plus you and Gibson are tied together for a special high performance gaming company subsidiary.


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## Deleted (Aug 27, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> You've been an enigma of sorts to me.  Lots of interest has surrounded your name for quite a while (related to CC).  Obviously, you must know your name appears on their employee roles for Velocity.  Plus you and Gibson are tied together for a special high performance gaming company subsidiary.


You have me at a disadvantage, what kind of interest has surrounded my name? 

Gibson did not do anything in the game server field. He was an author of a VoIP program that was a total waste of money. No insult to him, he just wrote a program in a field he didn't understand. It had potential, but it was too late. It was a design nightmare, was buggy, crashed all the time. didn't scale well, etc. I cringe thinking about all of it.


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## Jeffrey (Aug 27, 2013)

ColoCrossing is honestly the most rudest host I have ever came about to date on LET/LEB.


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## Jack (Aug 27, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> So we have:
> 
> 1. Jack, a provider in the community who rented servers from Colocrossing.  He became displeased with CC and vocal (his posts here).  Jon and Linda Biloh started their yelling and legal threats or just to pull down GRE tunnels on Jack.  Jack retreated by pulling the posts.


No... I was away for the weekend so haven't had chance to post on here I removed the content due to Robby's request Jon hasn't said a thing to me regarding the matter.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> You have me at a disadvantage, what kind of interest has surrounded my name?


CC has churned through people and few have made it onto the various corporate employee lists.  Your name though has been fairly prominent.

I believe the performance gaming brand was Summitservers:

http://www.summit-servers.com/aboutus.php



> First conceptualized nearly two years ago, *Summit is the brain child of two ex-Cisco engineers. With over 18 years of combined networking experience,* they began laying the ground work for an entity that would one day revolutionize the server hosting arena. Fast forward two years, thousands of hours of work, hundreds of o/s builds and nearly 100,000 lines of code - Summit Performance Servers enters the market place.


I remember seeing press about this offering being BSD based (something you contribute to).

And this:



> Buffalo, NY - December 11th, 2009 -
> 
> Summit Servers is pleased to announce 2 new package types for Source and 1.6:
> 
> ...



As for Gary Gibson, he was involved somehow up there since, oh, Jon boy was 10.   I've seen public printed materials with Gibson was purported to be the owner of CC and the address for contact, it wasn't in Buffalo.

There is also this nagging issue about a $16k gaming prize that CC didn't pay and the lawsuit that ensued.   More interesting is where the papers were served.  Again, not Buffalo, but another NY city.

There's obviously more.   People care since Jon and Colocrossing have been running all sorts of misrepresentations in these communities.  Shell companies, strong arming their customers, lying their hinds off about owning and running two sites like this (LET and LEB).

I think your name was being used to puff CC / Velocity up while not receiving any benefit on your end.  This is a claim Chris Fabozzi has made about himself.  Familiar with Chris at all?


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## Deleted (Aug 27, 2013)

I've never spoken to that Chris person in my life, I have no idea who he is, what he does. I've heard of him, but never talked to him. 

Summit was a company to take on HiDef and others; It was pretty good for the most part (this was so long ago, I was in my mid 20s when that company was formed). Once CAL died, so did summit. No need for 'high performance servers', so I used my knowledge and helped out people like Robby, who took the ball and kept goin with it. I was happy to know that what we did had a much larger impact on the GSP market.


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## MannDude (Aug 27, 2013)

Francisco said:


> So here's my question, who made this offer?
> 
> 
> Francisco


RLT.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 27, 2013)

MannDude said:


> RLT.


I wonder why they'd want this place.


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## MannDude (Aug 27, 2013)

Reece said:


> I wonder why they'd want this place.


Haha, me too.

The deal was just too eerily similar to when CC bought LET/LEB from Joel. The offer would have meant I did the exact same thing Joel did, and not announce it, and keep it quiet. As much as I could use the $$$, it'd have meant that I did the exact same thing I bitched about when CC took over LET/LEB. I'd be the hypocrite with a short supply of cash that'd not be able to stick my face back in the industry again, or atleast the lowend industry. (Which wouldn't be horrible as it's a shit industry anyway, haha)

But yeah, no idea what their intentions were. I don't think it'd be used to pump and promote RLT brands. They can see how that worked for Colocrossing and the mistrust the industry has in them now. If they did that, they'd be learning quickly that people would be losing faith in them as a company fast. Possibly just wanted to buy it out for the ad-revenue potential that could be generated, while staying on the sidelines and not having a strong presence on here.

The conversation never really made it that far, so I don't know.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

Reece said:


> I wonder why they'd want this place.


Why would any provider want any community site?  To control the marketplace or to silence critics.  Or both.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

MannDude said:


> RLT.


???

Acronym Definition


RLT Relating to


RLT Real Life Test


RLT Raleigh Little Theatre


RLT Revocable Living Trust


RLT Regional Leadership Team


RLT Regimental Landing Team


RLT Reformulation-Linearization Technique (computer programming)


RLT Real Life Technologies (trademark of Hewlett-Packard)


RLT Release Link Trunk


RLT Regina Little Theatre


RLT Red Letter Tribe (band)


RLT Rolling Liquid Transporter


RLT Riemann-Liouville Transform


RLT Recover Log Tracking


RLT Reorder Lead Time


RLT Reliable Liaison Thailand, Co Ltd (Bangkok, Thailand)


RLT Robert Ludlam Theatre (UK)


RLT Regional Lead Team (Wallace Center National Good Food Network)


RLT Risk Limitation Technology (banking and insurance industries)


RLT Relocatable Target


submit new definition


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## MannDude (Aug 27, 2013)

Oh come on, you know I mean Root Level Technology. Haha.


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## scv (Aug 27, 2013)

RLT would be Root Level Technologies, if I'm not mistaken.


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## drmike (Aug 27, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Oh come on, you know I mean Root Level Technology. Haha.


I totally hate ACRONYMS!!!!

Who in the heck else have they bought lately?


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## MannDude (Aug 27, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> I totally hate ACRONYMS!!!!
> 
> Who in the heck else have they bought lately?


Semoweb, from what I know. With how poorly Volume Drive is doing, I wouldn't be surprised if Volume Drive tried to sell out! Haha.


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## jarland (Aug 29, 2013)

kaniini said:


> All I am seeing here is more evidence that not bothering with the new LowEndBox was a good decision on my part.


Gave in? http://lowendbox.com/blog/tortoiselabs-6-50month-512mb-ram-xen-vps-in-los-angeles-miami-and-london/


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 29, 2013)

jarland said:


> Gave in? http://lowendbox.com/blog/tortoiselabs-6-50month-512mb-ram-xen-vps-in-los-angeles-miami-and-london/


It's LEB dude, and neno's non-CC.  He probably submitted that back in April >_>


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## Mitchell (Aug 31, 2013)

SeriesN said:


> A very well known name that became famous recently.


Must be digitalocean then


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## Mitchell (Aug 31, 2013)

Mitchell said:


> Must be digitalocean then


Responded too early, RLT of course. Apparently some idiots who abused the edit function made vpsB introduce a 5 minute edit limit...


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## Jack (Sep 2, 2013)

Mitchell said:


> Responded too early, RLT of course. Apparently some idiots who abused the edit function made vpsB introduce a 5 minute edit limit...


Na that's just Martin being an idiot.


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## MartinD (Sep 2, 2013)

Why's that, Jack?


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## Reece-DM (Sep 2, 2013)

Mitchell said:


> Responded too early, RLT of course. Apparently some idiots who abused the edit function made vpsB introduce a 5 minute edit limit...


5 Minute edit rule is a bit drastic.


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## clarity (Sep 2, 2013)

Jack said:


> Na that's just Martin being an idiot.


I would like to think that the change was made because of you being an idiot and posting stuff that you should not. There is an entire thread here that makes no sense to newcomers because you made a post and removed it. 

Anyone who doesn't like the new settings should send a personal message to Jack. Ask him why he likes to post things and then delete them when he realizes he shouldn't have.


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## MartinD (Sep 2, 2013)

dclardy said:


> I would like to think that the change was made because of you being an idiot and posting stuff that you should not. There is an entire thread here that makes no sense to newcomers because you made a post and removed it.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't like the new settings should send a personal message to Jack. Ask him why he likes to post things and then delete them when he realizes he shouldn't have.


Glad to see the whole reasoning behind that change has been understood by at least 1 member.


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## drmike (Sep 2, 2013)

The solution to the 5 minute rule is to have a content system that keeps all prior edits.

I'd imagine IPB likely has a plugin to keep prior versions of a message.

It's just good sensible version control to keep priors.


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## Jack (Sep 2, 2013)

dclardy said:


> I would like to think that the change was made because of you being an idiot and posting stuff that you should not. There is an entire thread here that makes no sense to newcomers because you made a post and removed it.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't like the new settings should send a personal message to Jack. Ask him why he likes to post things and then delete them when he realizes he shouldn't have.


Well Manndude asked me on skype to post it so I thought I would.


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## Jack (Sep 2, 2013)

dclardy said:


> I would like to think that the change was made because of you being an idiot and posting stuff that you should not. There is an entire thread here that makes no sense to newcomers because you made a post and removed it.


Well we don't actually know if Colocrossing is lying or Robby is do we that is another reason i thought I would remove it.


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## SkylarM (Sep 2, 2013)

Jack said:


> Well we don't actually know if Colocrossing is lying or Robby is do we that is another reason i thought I would remove it.


With this being the internet and all, it's usually best to use your head and think before making a post. Once it's on the internet, it never goes away. And now as a result I can't make quick edits to my posts and have to report it for derps when I can't figure out how to type properly.


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## Jack (Sep 2, 2013)

SkylarM said:


> With this being the internet and all, it's usually best to use your head and think before making a post. Once it's on the internet, it never goes away. And now as a result I can't make quick edits to my posts and have to report it for derps when I can't figure out how to type properly.


OK.


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## Francisco (Sep 2, 2013)

WHT uses a 15 minute timer so that's what I'd recommend.

It gives enough time to catch any minor spelling errors/grammar but doesn't allow for someone to come back a day later and start changing replies.

The 'EDITED' tags are a nice touch to help keep everyone honest.

Francisco


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## drmike (Sep 2, 2013)

I don't think Jack's post should have caused such a stir over the edit function.

Do what I do @Jack, let it fly.  Let it stick.  

If later determined that the info was wrong then say so. It happens.

It's funny that general trauma inflicted at the first mention or inference of the term "legal action" (yeah, I am talking about Colocrossing).   Funny, since I can't recall a single big lawsuit or action actually taken by anyone in or from the Lowend...  

Look for the post to go up on LET... "Looking for a Lowend lawyer..."  Must like working for < $7 an hour (ignoring the minimum wage laws) filing frivolous lawsuits against competitors and naysayers"


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## MannDude (Sep 2, 2013)

Well, after all the content was removed from his posts and he edited the title to, ".", I hid the thread from public view. Wasn't until after speaking to Martin we decided we'd just re-open it, as the conversation was good, even if the original content was now gone.

Of course, _I've_ got screenshots of the original content, but I feel posting them wouldn't be right. Most of us saw what Jack posted, his conversation between Robby and himself, and the claim Robby made in regards to 'what happened to EOR?' which we've all wondered.

About the post edits: We need to figure out a better system. Some content on this site legitimately needs edited after posting, hours, days, weeks later. wlanboy has a great thread featuring <$20/YR providers, and he edits the original post in that thread to list new providers every few days - every week or so as needed to add to the list. A provider who posts an offer often makes mistakes in their original posting, needs to go back and change or re-word something. Perhaps they forgot the network test IPs or mispelled something. So there _ARE_ a lot of legitimate needs for editing a post after it's made. As of right now, myself (and I'm sure Martin and Don too) are editing posts upon request via PMs and the report system. A PITA really, but it is what it is.


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## concerto49 (Sep 2, 2013)

I like the suggestion of having a revision history if that's possible so we can keep track of the edits.


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## Cloudrck (Sep 2, 2013)

Aside from ColoCrossing admitting to owning LEB/LET. I'm unaware of the other issues with ColoCrossing aside from their name coming up regularly. Came to this thread for information, was disappointed OP decided to back down.


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## drmike (Sep 2, 2013)

There are other CC issues.   Some providers will speak in private at least, about IP allocation issues and random closing of their tickets.

I know of other "network" related issues and their inability to manage customers network related matters (think BGP).  But I don't want anyone having more info and harassing more customers.  These are customers who might not have the visibility and maybe be more easily harmed.

Don't even get me started about employee issues at CC.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 2, 2013)

Honestly, I see no reason to limit editing.  The only 'abuse' of that has been Jack, and that was only to quickly try and recover from the reputation hit after folks pointed out just how unethical he was acting.  I see no reason to hamstring everyone else for something he's already taken his licks for.  Call it a lesson learned, and let's move on.


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## MannDude (Sep 2, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Honestly, I see no reason to limit editing.  The only 'abuse' of that has been Jack, and that was only to quickly try and recover from the reputation hit after folks pointed out just how unethical he was acting.  I see no reason to hamstring everyone else for something he's already taken his licks for.  Call it a lesson learned, and let's move on.


I agree. I'll talk to Martin about it. I did disable it but it looks like it got re-enabled. The edit function is typically disabled in most places after X amount of hours, which I don't mind, but the Xminutes is too short of a window for most.


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## shovenose (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah at least an hour would be nice, if you do insist on having an edit limit.


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## drmike (Sep 2, 2013)

I keep getting popped by the edit timeout 

Typos and spot editing post submission is something I do often.


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## Magiobiwan (Sep 2, 2013)

Perhaps allow Verified Providers to edit their posts in certain subforums (offers, etc.) with no time limit, and make it a 24h period for edits otherwise?


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## MannDude (Sep 2, 2013)

It's set to 60 minutes now. That seems much more reasonable.


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## drmike (Sep 2, 2013)

60 minutes for all edits?


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## MannDude (Sep 2, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> 60 minutes for all edits?


Yes, as of right now at least.


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 3, 2013)

I struggle to understand why people get so caught up in this, if the business model is bad it will fail, if it is good but has questionable moral methods, as long as it is legal in business then that is up to them if you don't like it ignore them.

The more someone is ignored the faster they go away, to be honest I had never really even heard of CC until the controversy started now they are the first provider I think of when ever anyone mentions Chicago so everyone has done an excellent job of brand recognition for them, they must love you guys


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## peterw (Sep 3, 2013)

AnthonySmith said:


> now they are the first provider I think of when ever anyone mentions Chicago


You want to offer services from Chicago? :wub:


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 3, 2013)

peterw said:


> You want to offer services from Chicago? :wub:


Some time this or next year yes, I would not use CC though, I am simply saying the people of 'we hate CC' have done a bang job of brand recondition.

The reason the amount of CC based offers is UP on LEB is not because of CC controlling CC IMO, it is because so many people have made so many other people aware that you can get stupid cheap servers and as many IP's as you want in CC so up goes the provider count in CC.

Think about it VD gets dragged through the mud daily and has done for years, everyone mentions the insane cheap prices, people ignore everything else and go for the best price... so negative reviews and comments turn in to a positive marketing machine.


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## drmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Left unchallenged for their many misdeeds and deceptions, they'll continue to grow and act with utter disregard. 

Free advertising and branding for them, sure, to some extent.  I'm fairly certain though they aren't benefiting.   Folks have been banned for truth telling on their sites.  So clearly, they want the noise to stop.



> now they are the first provider I think of when ever anyone mentions Chicago


It's pretty hard not to think of the house brand ChicagoVPS when it literally is the name of the subsidiary equals a very common market for services.  It's not like say FDCServers or Steadfast should come to mind first as neither has the degree of name relativity.


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## drmike (Sep 3, 2013)

AnthonySmith said:


> The reason the amount of CC based offers is UP on LEB is not because of CC controlling CC IMO, it is because so many people have made so many other people aware that you can get stupid cheap servers and as many IP's as you want in CC so up goes the provider count in CC.


At the end of the day, providers from all over submit offers.  It is a big planet and not everyone is interested in 6 markets in the United States.

What gets approved on LEB, is via intentional publishing of offers.  They pick and choose the offers that see daylight.  

They pick the house brand because they can and it materially benefits them.

I don't know how much you have kept up, but one company runs CC offers for a bunch of different companies it owns. That is known to CC, yet totally kosher.  Probably a dozen offers on LEB this year alone from this one company.  Ahh, ServerHub, B2 Net, ServerMania, Aim2Game, etc.

Now the contention that awareness has lead IDIOT wanna-be-providers to CC for cheapskate deals has real merits.  There's no doubt that is happening.  Ask around and see how well say Buffalo is selling.

Now ask those providers how well VPS sales are on those server(s) they committed to in Buffalo.  

Little funny fact, last hack-go-round spelled out that CVPS actually had less customers in their own Buffalo hosting back yard than another location and it isn't Chicago.

I'll ignore them when they self destruct or are acquired by a business with a working moral compass.  Someone acquires them with the same skewed reality approach, I'll tar and feather them.


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## VPSCorey (Sep 3, 2013)




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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 3, 2013)

I see "Image Hosted by Tripod", and the first thought that comes to mind is "Those people are still around?"


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## ChrisM (Sep 3, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> I see "Image Hosted by Tripod", and the first thought that comes to mind is "Those people are still around?"


Didn't they used to be a free webhosting brand?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 3, 2013)

Pretty much, aye.  I remember them from back when Geocities was still relevant to the web. </oldman>


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 3, 2013)

At the end of the day unless someone provides any actual proof that CC is corrupt, or doing anything illegal, actual proof not a bunch of coincidence then I would like to stop seeing thread after thread about them like someone just gets off on trolling them, it is annoying.

I agree that  they have done some less than moral moves, but illegal.. no

I am one step away from making a leave Brittany alone video at this stage because it all just seems childish and petty. please stop clogging up the forums I visit with this crap, this is not a demand just a not so polite request 

I appreciate the digging work some people do to show out and out criminals but honestly these recent piles of here say is just getting annoying. it is nothing but assumptions and twisting things to a cause.. they dont offer health care... that is their choice, they removed EOR posts due to a contract dispute, again, they can do that, nothing illegal they operate the LEB site as a business.

When someone has some actual proof of something they are willing to stand by I am all over that with a double thumbs up, but it seems every provider/DC/Company that dares do anything a few select people don't like and we have an area 51 conspiracy theory being touted as proof. I am telling you now it is directly because of these threads I think internet+chicago and my first thought is CC so you have done a bang up job of brand recognition for them.

This will be my last post on any of these sham threads, if I disagree or think someone is being a dick for posting here say in the future I will simply reply to the thread with some random rubbish like... get a job, get a life, sniff some grass.


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## Deleted (Sep 3, 2013)

AnthonySmith said:


> At the end of the day unless someone provides any actual proof that CC is corrupt, or doing anything illegal, actual proof not a bunch of coincidence then I would like to stop seeing thread after thread about them like someone just gets off on trolling them, it is annoying.


You really have no idea.....


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## ramnet (Sep 3, 2013)

Well, seeing as how the OP to this thread has removed his post, and everything else appears to be speculation, i think this thread should be closed by the mods.

And seeing as how many providers on these forums use CC's services, they can't be that bad.

At this point the discussion is just going around in circles imo


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## Cloudrck (Sep 3, 2013)

FRCorey said:


>


How did I end up in 1999? Never coming here again.


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## drmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> You really have no idea.....


Just so everyone is, of the understanding:

Didn't you work for Colocrossing?


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## Deleted (Sep 3, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Just so everyone is, of the understanding:
> 
> Didn't you work for Colocrossing?


Yes, I did, for almost a decade, till May of last year..


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## drmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Monkburger said:


> Yes, I did, for almost a decade, till May of last year..


A decade?  That's nearly the entire existence of Velocity/Colocrossing.

I think I've asked elsewhere, but for sake of the naysayers...  Colocrossing / Velocity claimed, they actually promoted the fact on their homepage that a sub brand had TWO CISCO ENGINEERS with over 18 years combined.  

Do you find that claim to be false on CC's end and intended to mislead potential customers into trusting them?



ramnet said:


> And seeing as how many providers on these forums use CC's services, they can't be that bad.


How many folks on these forums probably chow on a McDonald's hamburger or shop at Walmart? All  are equally poor indicators of a companies moral compass, integrity, fairness, etc.  Popularity and perception are not equal to reality.


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