# IPv4 Shortage, Blame Idiots like ColoCrossing.



## drmike (Nov 20, 2013)

Next time you bitch and moan about IP limits from datacenters or complain about the cost increase for IPs, just think of my friends in Buffalo.

Sometime in the past year I started paying attention to HE's BGP site.  On there is IPs Originated (v4). Back then CC was at oh a bit over 100,000 IPs Originated.

As of today, ColoCrossings IP count stands at a whopping: 422,912.

In the past 5 days I've seen this number increase now three times.

There's no way CC is pushing this kind of IP use legitimately and at  80% consumption threshold for more issuance.

You have big ranges just piled up with ns1 and ns2 nameserver filler crap.  Example: http://bgp.he.net/net/198.46.160.0/19#_dns


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## Damian (Nov 20, 2013)

Some of that number might be from announcing other people's IP blocks. For example, our new IP blocks are listed under their ASN. 

But that only comprises 2048 addresses. So yeah.


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## fizzyjoe908 (Nov 20, 2013)

Yes - if you view Prefixes v4 tab they announce IP blocks for other companies. That being said, the majority is for them directly.


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## DomainBop (Nov 20, 2013)

I think that idiot Windows users who are still using XP with IE8 should also share a large part of the blame.  SNI would have a much larger adoption rate if it wasn't for them.

Idiot ISPs (especially in the US), datacenters (ColoCrossing, Incero, etc), and providers who have a million excuses why they haven't rolled out IPv6 yet also share a large part of the blame.



> As of today, ColoCrossings IP count stands at a whopping: 422,912.



They're still tiny compared to someone like Ubiquity who has 1.86 million.


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## scv (Nov 20, 2013)

DomainBop said:


> I think that idiot Windows users who are still using XP with IE8 should also share a large part of the blame.  SNI would have a much larger adoption rate if it wasn't for them.


Actually, that's something to look forward to. As IPv4 availability dwindles and Windows XP is phased out, we might see some of the big shared hosting players dumping large quantities of IPs that they just don't need anymore.


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## Damian (Nov 20, 2013)

scv said:


> Actually, that's something to look forward to. As IPv4 availability dwindles and Windows XP is phased out, we might see some of the big shared hosting players dumping large quantities of IPs that they just don't need anymore.


Pardon my ignorance on the subject, I only ask to learn: what's Windows XP have to do with it?


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## DomainBop (Nov 20, 2013)

Damian said:


> Pardon my ignorance on the subject, I only ask to learn: what's Windows XP have to do with it?


Internet Explorer (any version) on Windows XP doesn't support SNI.  Windows Vista and above has SNI support with IE. Android 2.x browsers are the other big offender without SNI support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication


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## Damian (Nov 20, 2013)

Ah, thanks for the education!


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## scv (Nov 20, 2013)

Damian said:


> Pardon my ignorance on the subject, I only ask to learn: what's Windows XP have to do with it?


Windows XP still accounts for (conservatively) 25% of consumer machines and does not support SNI[1] (Server Name Indication) which in a nutshell allows you to do vhosting for SSL (solves the chicken/egg problem of sending the certificate/receiving the 'host' header).

Edit: DomainBop beat me to it


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## switsys (Nov 20, 2013)

DomainBop said:


> Internet Explorer (any version) on Windows XP doesn't support SNI.





scv said:


> Windows XP still accounts for (conservatively) 25% of consumer machines


Why would anyone, even if they are 'ignorant' enough to run Windows, use IE ?


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## scv (Nov 20, 2013)

switsys said:


> Why would anyone, even if they are 'ignorant' enough to run Windows, use IE ?


It seems to be a recurring theme among businesses as well as older users. Makes no sense to me either


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## InertiaNetworks-John (Nov 20, 2013)

I recently visited a local business and I noticed that they were running XP on a few of the older machines. When speaking to their IT Supervisor, he said that they hope to get rid of XP completely by 2014.

I wish everyone did.


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## MannDude (Nov 20, 2013)

Am I the only one who _prefers_ Windows XP (sp3) if I've _got_ to use Windows? Seriously, it's the only Windows OS I like, and is the last one I am familiar with the most.

My main gripe with IPv4 are these bullshit providers, like SSDVPS, who offer 5 IPv4's with a $7/mo 1GB RAM package. It's clear they're just trying to utilize their current allocation so they can justify it. Lots of providers acting shady like this.


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## Amitz (Nov 20, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Am I the only one who _prefers_ Windows XP (sp3) if I've _got_ to use Windows? Seriously, it's the only Windows OS I like, and is the last one I am familiar with the most.


i am with you. However, using XP today is really a bad idea. But it would also be the WinOS of my choice if I had to use Windows again for a certain task.


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 20, 2013)

You know, drmike, for someone who hates ColoCrossing so much, you're always bitching about them...

I normally don't reply to stupid things like this, but is your life that lame that you have to constantly complain about ColoCrossing? I mean no disrespect, but it's getting old... Everyday you or some other person has a thread about ColoCrossing... I'm not sure why you hate them so much, nor do I care, but someday, you need to grow up and move on...

Some people may think it is envy, but others may see it your way... Just move on... Sheesh... Just on this one thread I see 4 others opened within a month from you, it is like a ritual with you and it's pretty much worn out its welcome.

Just my 2 cents... Maybe it's time to grow up and move on...


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## clarity (Nov 20, 2013)

Here come the "you don't have to read them" posts!


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## MannDude (Nov 20, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> You know, drmike, for someone who hates ColoCrossing so much, you're always bitching about them...
> 
> I normally don't reply to stupid things like this, but is your life that lame that you have to constantly complain about ColoCrossing? I mean no disrespect, but it's getting old... Everyday you or some other person has a thread about ColoCrossing... I'm not sure why you hate them so much, nor do I care, but someday, you need to grow up and move on...
> 
> ...


To be fair, and as I told you on Skype when you asked me to delete his threads... This is the first one in a while for him. He has cut back significantly.

I've not seen one in a while.

It's not hard to understand why someone would be interested in keeping tabs on a company that has had proven shady practices. I don't encourage or discourage such activity, but as the reader you choose what you wish to read. There are threads on here that I've not looked at even once because the title was not relevant to my interests. I suggest you and everyone else practice the same level of self-control.


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## InertiaNetworks-John (Nov 20, 2013)

MannDude said:


> My main gripe with IPv4 are these bullshit providers, like SSDVPS, who offer 5 IPv4's with a $7/mo 1GB RAM package. It's clear they're just trying to utilize their current allocation so they can justify it. Lots of providers acting shady like this.


I agree with this as well. I have been noticing offers lately on other forums saying things like ~20 IP's for $1, or something crazy like that.


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 20, 2013)

MannDude said:


> To be fair, and as I told you on Skype when you asked me to delete his threads... This is the first one in a while for him. He has cut back significantly.
> 
> I've not seen one in a while.
> 
> It's not hard to understand why someone would be interested in keeping tabs on a company that has had proven shady practices. I don't encourage or discourage such activity, but as the reader you choose what you wish to read. There are threads on here that I've not looked at even once because the title was not relevant to my interests. I suggest you and everyone else practice the same level of self-control.


Hey, it was a joke on Skype, I didn't mean to really delete them. I have control over what I read and it isn't really that big of a deal. But it does seem to get old when these conspiracy theory posts pop up blaming ColoCrossing for IPv4 shortage. That post was meant to stir the pot. I completely agree with the fact that people like to keep tabs on a company, but what does it bother anyone what they do? They do what they do, let them do it and you do what you do... I just don't understand why this is still a topic... People get butt hurt because of something that ColoCrossing does when it doesn't even affect you... If you're mad about the 422k IP addresses that they have allocated to them so what? Why does it affect you? Why make a post about it? Sheesh...


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## concerto49 (Nov 20, 2013)

Maybe Black Friday deal would be 4k ips for free?


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## budi1413 (Nov 20, 2013)

I hate CC because too much packet loss on their network.


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 20, 2013)

budi1413 said:


> I hate CC because too much packet loss on their network.


Cool, I never noticed it... How much packet loss are we talking about?


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## budi1413 (Nov 20, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> Cool, I never noticed it... How much packet loss are we talking about?


Well maybe depend on location, because i'm from SEA. When i'm using provider that utilizing CC network i'm always get 10%-20% packet loss all day and disconnected ssh session. I've never seen problem like that with provider that utilizing other network than CC. The other reason i hate them because they take over LEB/LET that make that place not fun anymore.


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## drmike (Nov 21, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> You know, drmike, for someone who hates ColoCrossing so much, you're always bitching about them...
> 
> I normally don't reply to stupid things like this, but is your life that lame that you have to constantly complain about ColoCrossing? I mean no disrespect, but it's getting old... Everyday you or some other person has a thread about ColoCrossing... I'm not sure why you hate them so much, nor do I care, but someday, you need to grow up and move on...
> 
> ...


Don't you host with them / are a "customer"?  Weren't you helping during one of the CVPS hacks?

Have a dog in the race ehh?


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## peterw (Nov 21, 2013)

We should talk about providers too that give away free vps for one month and add 30 ips to it. Is that shady too?


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## drmike (Nov 21, 2013)

XFS_Duke said:


> People get butt hurt because of something that ColoCrossing does when it doesn't even affect you... If you're mad about the 422k IP addresses that they have allocated to them so what? Why does it affect you? Why make a post about it? Sheesh...


IP shortage doesn't impact me?  GTFO.  It impacts everyone.   Drives up prices and has created artificial scarcity.   In some places you really have an expensive to impossible chore of getting IPs, even if you have your own ASN (i.e. Europe).     So it drives up server operating costs and eliminates less costly competition elsewhere because people are whoring and stealing IPs.  Yeah, I call it theft.

Such a shortage - so much that we see people dangling on CC's network offering free multiple IPs on tiny, inexpensive, virtual instances  

What happened to ARIN and 80% full before new issuance?

I'll tell you what this is about... It is about intentional hoarding for inevitable IP exhaustion elsewhere.  CC is stock piling IPs, filing BS allocation requests on behalf of "customers" and sliding them into their own portfolio/control.  When the IP depletion happens, CC at this pace might be sitting on what?  A million IPs?

What's an IP at market now worth to sell/lease?   Say $11 per IP.   1 million of them, that's $11 million on made up ill gotten tech paper value.   Even now where they sit, at over $4 million.

Go look around and see how many IPs datacenters that are popular have.  I am not saying names here, but a well known facility in NJ 137k IPs, a big discount provider in Chicago 390k...


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## GIANT_CRAB (Nov 21, 2013)

drmike, you gotta chill your shit man.

There's plenty of evil people (eg. Government - Tony Blair/Bush/Bush Jr/Obama/etc.., ColoCrossing, BP oil company, Feds) in this world but we have to learn to live with them. 

Conflicts that are constructive are good but there's a certain line we must draw before it becomes a civil war.

The only place with no conflicts or arguments would be the graveyard - very peaceful there.

In other words, don't blow up in rage because your rage would never change a single thing about Colocrossing's ethics.


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## drmike (Nov 21, 2013)

Hey it is what it is.  Is it evil (IP hoarding and fraud allocation)?  Well, not per se.  Does it violate rules and create shortages, yes.  Should people be kicked in the nut sack for stunts like this, surely.  Full IP audit and revocation and future severe limit to allocation.  Time for ARIN to do their job and regulate.

Unsure where any rage was expressed on this thread.   People with material interest in CC certainly don't want flashlight shone  upon CC, I understand that. 

Also unsure why so many people in the world today have I don't care blah attitude about everything.  Oh those evil people, look at what they did, oh it wasn't me so I don't care.  But yet when their Big Mac is served without pickles they blow their big top, dial 9-11 to complain and go troll on the internet about a 2 cent mistake.   Somewhere along the way too many folks lost their hormones and spine.  

I don't think anyone above is EVIL.  I think they all make tons of decisions that are SELFISH and in the interest of only their own financial wealth collection and to the detriment of everyone else.  Destroyers of economies and fair markets.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 21, 2013)

Evil is a funny description.  Cowards would've been my first choice, given how often they like to run their mouths and act tough.. and yet when they had the chance to say it to our faces, the only people that would meet us are two techs that cowed like we were just going to start taking swings at them.

I really don't see why pub gets hate for bringing issues like this to light.  I get told that I'm going to hell on a more frequent basis than I see CC posted about here;  and at least the stuff he posts is either verified true, or you're given a very solid chain of supporting evidence.

Y'know, I make snarky commentary at people all the time, yet I never catch hell for it.  Maybe if what he's saying bugs you, then you should stop and seriously ask yourself *why* it's bugging you.  It's fine to have a difference of opinion, but if you're going to rag on him on the basis of posting too much, then I expect to see a lot more hate towards those of us that take the piss of these kids asking other people to run their companies, etc.


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 21, 2013)

drmike said:


> Don't you host with them / are a "customer"?  Weren't you helping during one of the CVPS hacks?
> 
> Have a dog in the race ehh?


Way to go there... Yea, I have a server with them right now... Yes, I haven't had a single issue with them since I've gotten the server... Yes, I have servers elsewhere as well. No I don't have any issues with them either... Do I care what they do with other customers? No, I am my own person and run my own company. And to be honest, I don't care how many people hate CC, their hate doesn't affect the fact that I don't have an issue with them.

To set something else straight, things bug me for some odd reasons. It is just like seeing postings about other things that are constant and about the same thing over and over... Take for example the Zimmerman/Martin case... It was all over the news and all over the internet... It bugged me... It annoyed me... Not a hard thing to understand...



drmike said:


> Hey it is what it is.  Is it evil (IP hoarding and fraud allocation)?  Well, not per se.  Does it violate rules and create shortages, yes.  Should people be kicked in the nut sack for stunts like this, surely.  Full IP audit and revocation and future severe limit to allocation.  Time for ARIN to do their job and regulate.
> 
> Unsure where any rage was expressed on this thread.   People with material interest in CC certainly don't want flashlight shone  upon CC, I understand that.
> 
> ...


This is the same thing... Trolling the internet bitching about ColoCrossing and every move they make... lol Also, I don't really have material interest in CC. I have 1 server with them. If they get audited, so be it. Report it and let it go. Let the powers that be handle that. If they get kicked in the nutsack, then so be it.


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## switsys (Nov 21, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Am I the only one who _prefers_ Windows XP (sp3) if I've _got_ to use Windows?


No, you're not.


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## dcdan (Nov 21, 2013)

I was a "Windows XP" guy for a very long time. Now that I used Win7 for a little over a year (it was preinstalled in the new laptop I bought), I hate Windows XP for not having quick search in Start menu and now I struggle every time I have to use WinXP.


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## willie (Nov 22, 2013)

I tried to post a question on Wikipedia through my VPN.  It said:

*Your IP address has been blocked on all wikis.* ... The reason given is _Cross-wiki spam: spambot: leaky webhost; too much spam — ColoCrossing; talk to provider about contacting the stewards_.

Heh.


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## Francisco (Nov 22, 2013)

Up until recent (within the last 2 days) they had ~10% of their whole IP pool listed on spamhaus.

I'm not sure why spamhaus hasn't bashed them harder yet, it's obvious block selling. There was an *entire /20* with similar RDNS for every entry.

Francisco


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## drmike (Nov 22, 2013)

How about that what /20 belonging to an engineering company?  Huge many billion dollar company that somehow doesn't have possession of their IP range?


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## Francisco (Nov 22, 2013)

drmike said:


> How about that what /20 belonging to an engineering company?  Huge many billion dollar company that somehow doesn't have possession of their IP range?


It's super common for corps to not even *know* they own IP space after buying out another company. But yes, there was a /20 that was stolen from some company and CC was announcing it. How did CC get an LOA for space the customer didn't own? Shit, I know when I did my LOA with them the names all had to match, had to be sent from [email protected], as *well* as be formally autographed by me.

Francisco


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## TSS - Conor (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm curious though if those IPs are allocated sensibly... as in.. the clients need them. They have grown a lot recently but still; thats a massive increase in under a year.


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## Francisco (Nov 23, 2013)

TSS - Conor said:


> I'm curious though if those IPs are allocated sensibly... as in.. the clients need them. They have grown a lot recently but still; thats a massive increase in under a year.


Actually, they haven't really. They haven't grown in NJ or ATL at all. It's possible Buffalo opened more cabs for him but it doesn't justify signing the amount of space they have in the past 6 months.

There was a literal full page of spamhaus listings for large subnets. They sold a /20 to a ROCKSO, an /18 or /19 to someone else and then a mass collection of /24's and /23's to some other spammer.

There has been multiple cases of repeat spammers. What I mean by this, is that CC claims the spammer is removed yet no more than a week after the listing comes down does the *same* spam get pushed through that subnet, just this time it has a new, bullshit, SWIP entry.

Francisco


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## vRozenSch00n (Nov 23, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Up until recent (within the last 2 days) they had ~10% of their whole IP pool listed on spamhaus.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why spamhaus hasn't bashed them harder yet, it's obvious block selling. There was an *entire /20* with similar RDNS for every entry.
> ...


Yep, I got spam flood from their IPs too.


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## Kris (Nov 28, 2013)

I remember HVH asking for a /26.

Few days later, people were asking why BlueVM was giving out HVH IP locations. (7) /24's were there under their name. Quickly scrubbed clean.

I remember mentioning this at oh... ~136k IPs in the beginning of the year, they're going on 400,000k+

Good to see some people are finally seeing their end game here.


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## drmike (Nov 28, 2013)

Kris said:


> I remember mentioning this at oh... ~136k IPs in the beginning of the year, they're going on 400,000k+
> 
> Good to see some people are finally seeing their end game here.


Well, not naming any names, but we have a couple other companies lingering around here with unjustified 300-400k allocations... Ho hum...

Guess I should share my love


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## serverian (Nov 28, 2013)

422K IP for a hosting company is too high? I don't think it's the case when Ford Motors have 16 million IPs.

http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/02/13/where-did-all-the-ip-numbers-go-the-us-department-of-defense-has-them/


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## scv (Nov 28, 2013)

serverian said:


> 422K IP for a hosting company is too high? I don't think it's the case when Ford Motors have 16 million IPs.
> 
> http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/02/13/where-did-all-the-ip-numbers-go-the-us-department-of-defense-has-them/


You know the great thing? We've done some work for Ford in the past, and at one of their branch sites I saw a label on an IP phone with an address in the 19.0.0.0/8 range (Ford's IP block)...

Now you know what they're doing with that space!


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## drmike (Nov 28, 2013)

serverian said:


> 422K IP for a hosting company is too high? I don't think it's the case when Ford Motors have 16 million IPs.
> 
> http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/02/13/where-did-all-the-ip-numbers-go-the-us-department-of-defense-has-them/


Well obviously industrial giants of old along with the mostly offline continent of Africa are parked on big IP space.   The IPs ought to be reclaimed.

Mind you, Ford and their ilk were allocated IPs back in the internet stone age, prior to ARIN and any regulations over issuance.   Today isn't it an 80% use/consumption before more allocation?  

Someone want me to audit CC's IP use  ?


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## Patrick (Nov 28, 2013)

Why is ColoCrossing in the title, at least make your judgements fair.

What about some of the advertisers here giving away 5-6 IPs for $10, other server providers were/are giving away /25s for $5 with 1 HDD max E3 servers


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## DomainBop (Nov 28, 2013)

INIZ said:


> Why is ColoCrossing in the title, at least make your judgements fair.
> 
> What about some of the advertisers here giving away 5-6 IPs for $10


ServerHub's ad banner rotating at the top of the page is advertising a $6.99 2.5GB VPS that includes 6 IPs . Their parent Eonix has over 460K IPs: AS62904 (140K  ) and AS30693 (323K)



> the mostly offline continent of Africa are parked on big IP space.



Give it another 10-15 years and usage will catch up in many countries.  Internet penetration in Moroco, Tunisia, and Egypt is already slightly above the world average.  Overall Internet penetration in Africa is 15.6% compared to 37.6% in the rest of the world.  This table, broken down by country, shows the huge increase in African Internet users between 2000-2012 (from 4.5 million in 2000 to 167 million last year)

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm


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## Francisco (Nov 28, 2013)

INIZ said:


> Why is ColoCrossing in the title, at least make your judgements fair.
> 
> What about some of the advertisers here giving away 5-6 IPs for $10, other server providers were/are giving away /25s for $5 with 1 HDD max E3 servers


Because neither of them have been selling /19's to spammers? There's an /18 listed just the other day. If you run through their RDNS you'll see it's all spammy RDNS for the *whole* thing.

Serverhub gives a lot, as does lunanode I think their name is. It's possible LN has a solid relationship with singlehop with part of their agreement be to increase their IP usage to get more subnets.

Expect it from everyone alas. It's a mad dash since ARIN only has another /9 or so left before shit gets real.

Francisco


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## Francisco (Nov 28, 2013)

serverian said:


> 422K IP for a hosting company is too high? I don't think it's the case when Ford Motors have 16 million IPs.
> 
> http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/02/13/where-did-all-the-ip-numbers-go-the-us-department-of-defense-has-them/


Remember, Ford is pre ARIN space. PRE-ARIN didn't need justification, just 'Hi, I need some IP addresses', and they'd allocate you a /20 w/o issue. Needed more? OK.

There is gobs of pre-ARIN space that isn't used and is owned by companies that don't know it. If you want to see how that space is being used, just monitor http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/latest/ for "zombie/stolen subnet" listings.

You'll see massive allocations (/18's and such) get posted all the time.

Francisco


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## wlanboy (Nov 28, 2013)

Francisco said:


> There is gobs of pre-ARIN space that isn't used and is owned by companies that don't know it. If you want to see how that space is being used, just monitor http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/latest/ for "zombie/stolen subnet" listings.


Like the Pony botnet controller?


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## Francisco (Nov 28, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> Like the Pony botnet controller?


We've been found out!

RUN!

Francisco


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## Patrick (Nov 28, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Because neither of them have been selling /19's to spammers? There's an /18 listed just the other day. If you run through their RDNS you'll see it's all spammy RDNS for the *whole* thing.
> 
> 
> Serverhub gives a lot, as does lunanode I think their name is. It's possible LN has a solid relationship with singlehop with part of their agreement be to increase their IP usage to get more subnets.
> ...


Maybe but it's only fair to add others through the thread title too then maybe, e.g Ubiquity Servers/Nobis Technology has ~1.8M IPs announced and are notorious for years for the same reason


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## Francisco (Nov 28, 2013)

INIZ said:


> Maybe but it's only fair to add others through the thread title too then maybe, e.g Ubiquity Servers/Nobis Technology has ~1.8M IPs announced and are notorious for years for the same reason


Very true, message the OP and bring it up 

Francisco


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## drmike (Nov 28, 2013)

DomainBop said:


> ServerHub's ad banner rotating at the top of the page is advertising a $6.99 2.5GB VPS that includes 6 IPs . Their parent Eonix has over 460K IPs: AS62904 (140K  ) and AS30693 (323K)


Hehe, DomainBop,  you reading my email  ?  Truer words never said.

Cursory view of the IP use for said company was, gosh, this is kind of like empty.  Why all the IPs.   Mind you I haven't invested a week leafing through the ranges.   I limit my focus mainly to one provider   But ole ServerHub showed up in my CC periscope months back and is again, sadly.


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## willie (Nov 29, 2013)

Gandi.net now offering 17% discount for ipv6-only:

https://www.gandi.net/news/en/2013-11-27/1166-ipv6-only_servers/


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## Kakashi (Nov 29, 2013)

willie said:


> Gandi.net now offering 17% discount for ipv6-only:
> 
> https://www.gandi.net/news/en/2013-11-27/1166-ipv6-only_servers/


That's a great idea. I wonder how many people have taken them up on that offer.


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