# MAID-SAFE (Massive Array of Internet Disks, etc.)



## raindog308 (Dec 2, 2014)

I'd never heard of this project, but apparently it's been around since 2006 and has raised millions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaidSafe

The technology sounds interesting, though once I read "MaidSafe Coins" I rolled my eyes...


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## DomainBop (Dec 2, 2014)

lengthy article: http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/23/maidsafe/

from Wikipedia:



> For example, Bob connects both his personal laptop, a desktop computer and his tablet to MaidSafe. From his laptop he gives MaidSafe 100 MB, from his desktop he gives 350 MB and from his tablet his gives 8 MB. Since Bob has given a total of 458 MB to MaidSafe he now has access to 458 MB on the network which he can access from any device, anywhere and any time. In this way, the clients provide the network storage infrastructure.


The technology is interesting but I'd rather use something that I'm in complete control of like Alfresco (or even that slow clunky OwnCloud) for anytime, any device, anywhere access.  I don't have any interest in sharing space on my hard drives with Bob and his friends.



> though once I read "MaidSafe Coins" I rolled my eyes...


moi aussi


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## drmike (Dec 2, 2014)

I looked at the Wikipedia page and went, burp, hey that's throw up in my mouth.

Coin /= con... sure....

Distributed storage = fine.... distributed sharing with random folks... meh, tech orgy, no thanks to that degree.  Even the crypto condom is like meh, not very titillating.


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## raindog308 (Dec 2, 2014)

When I looked at it, Tahoe-LAFS (which is another "Internet file system" sort of thing) looked interesting.

https://tahoe-lafs.org


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## comXyz (Dec 3, 2014)

What will happen if Bob's desktop HDD crashes? He will lose entire 458 MB data I assume.


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## Kayaba Akihiko (Dec 3, 2014)

Seems like heaven for criminals


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## drmike (Dec 3, 2014)

c1bl said:


> What will happen if Bob's desktop HDD crashes? He will lose entire 458 MB data I assume.


Well ideally as per their spec / design, the data is replicated 3 times at minimum.  So the data remaps to pointers on servers elsewhere.


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## AlphaNine_Vini (Dec 3, 2014)

The data can be wiped out when some format their server or if the data is corrupted within the network


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## devonblzx (Dec 4, 2014)

I think you're going to find it hard for people to trust their data hosted on anonymous sources regardless of the encryption.  Not to mention the latency / access time issues.   Is it regional?  If you have someone half way around the world hosting a file of yours, how slow is it to access that file?

I suppose this is useful, and thought up, because of people having leftover space on their hard drives?   The problem is:

1.  When a traditional spinning drive fills up, it also slows down.

2.  More people are moving to SSDs for their computers for faster access times and smaller drives.  So they have less free space to give up and why does someone want to store files on a service where they have no idea where it will be served from?

I'm surprised to see the amount of funding that has come up.


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## drmike (Dec 4, 2014)

Crowd sourced funding right?  Same foolish folks handing $50k+ for a dude to make potato salad.  Same folks throwing money behind Chinese $17 devices with a daemon or two running pretending to be a security / anonymous traffic box - ahh multiple times.  Says something about how quick folks are to part with a bit of cash and how bad most people are as "investors".

This distributed, shared disk pool among random people has been tried multiple times as commercial venture and hasn't worked / taken off / etc.   So bad I can't even remember their product / company names.


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## raindog308 (Dec 4, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> I think you're going to find it hard for people to trust their data hosted on anonymous sources regardless of the encryption.


...but people trust companies like Dropbox, Microsoft, Google, etc?   :lol: 

It's kind of a tradeoff.  Yes, with big companies you get some peace of mind that supposedly they're big, professional, audited, etc.  On the other hand, with anonymous encrypted storage you don't have to worry about government snoops or companies rifling through your data.  I don't think stuff you store on Dropbox or OneDrive is even encrypted (unless you do it).  Snowden remarked that looking at people's private pictures, etc. was something of a organizational past-time/fringe benefit...I very much doubt that private sector employees are any less nosy/curious.

I think the phrase "regardless of encryption" is strange. Right now I have a PasswordSafe database sitting on Dropbox. Inside are my logins for dozens of sites/servers, plus credit card info, etc. If someone were to break into Dropbox, I wouldn't lose any sleep. I'd be comfortable putting a plain-text copy of it on tarsnap, because I know the crypto involved and it's very good (and if I have doubts, I can read the source code).

Encryption means encryption.

I think there are technical challenges to this sort of thing, but probably no more so than other file-sync/file-storage services.


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## devonblzx (Dec 4, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> ...but people trust companies like Dropbox, Microsoft, Google, etc?   :lol:
> 
> It's kind of a tradeoff.  Yes, with big companies you get some peace of mind that supposedly they're big, professional, audited, etc.  On the other hand, with anonymous encrypted storage you don't have to worry about government snoops or companies rifling through your data.  I don't think stuff you store on Dropbox or OneDrive is even encrypted (unless you do it).  Snowden remarked that looking at people's private pictures, etc. was something of a organizational past-time/fringe benefit...I very much doubt that private sector employees are any less nosy/curious.
> 
> ...


To be frank, yes.  People, I think in general, do trust corporations more.  Anyone with the knowledge to use a P2P storage system like this would have the knowledge to add encryption to Dropbox or any other storage service.

But the reason why I said regardless of the encryption is because I just find it hard to believe that people will be okay with the idea that their personal data is on someone else's computer and they have no idea who that person is.  It just doesn't instill confidence that your data is safe especially to people who are less knowledgeable about this technology.  I think most people know all encryptions can eventually be broken, no matter how strong the encryption, you don't want your files in the hands of someone malicious.

Thus, if it won't be used for personal data or in that case backups of personal data, what will it be used for? I doubt you can consistently stream media from another person's computer (using their disk and network) or play games from files on a remote computer.

I just don't see the use cases.   I think it would be better served to work on encryption to use on cloud storage services rather than a distributed p2p storage system.   Most of the big guys offer free storage space up to ~10-20GB now anyways.


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## drmike (Dec 4, 2014)

It's a niche storage play where the boat has long sailed elsewhere.

This sort of thing mattered more when storage cost more to rent and less free big options.

I don't host anything in the cloud unless such was created in said cloud.  So it lives and dies there...

Backups and such to remote random machines, no way Jose.


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## DomainBop (Dec 4, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> I'm surprised to see the amount of funding that has come up.


That's because you're focusing on the Dropbox-esque storage part of the business.   The investors are probably looking at the potential of the apps/services side of the business.



> “We’re often maybe confused with a decentralized Dropbox,” he adds. “And that is maybe one very good use for our network… [because] it’s completely private, we don’t know who our users are, we don’t hold your cryptographic keys so we can’t access your data… But effectively MaidSafe is a data and communications network so you could put any service that you get on the Internet today onto the network — absolutely anything, YouTube, Facebook, Dropbox, basically everything.”...





> With SafeCoins being distributed based on app usage, that allows for a network that rewards developers for building services that people actually use. Now just think about that for a minute. Apps that people love and use could receive payment just for being loved and used on this network — rather than their founders having to resort to stuffing ads in front of eyeballs, or selling user data off to marketing entities. That’s potentially a sea change in the kind of digital services that are possible.


http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/23/maidsafe/

The one negative I see in the creation of this "alternate Internet" is what @Kayaba Akihiko mentioned "_Seems like heaven for criminals"_.  If this network picks up a sizable user base, and can offer better network speeds (or better or equal anonymity) than TOR/.onion sites you're going to see the scumbag element (criminals, child porn peddlers, etc) start to gravitate towards the network. The developers haven't mentioned how, or if they will be able to,  prevent this from happening.


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