# Incero spamming?



## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

So, apparently they've harvested all emails entered/used with their live-chat system and used those to send unsolicited bulkmail about "new" offers from them, like the one below.


====== Please reply above this line ======
 

Hello, we chatted on the webchat on Incero a while back.

http://xxxx.com is a new cloud server service that we launched, maybe that will fit your needs? Highly redundant cloud based servers spin up in just 13 seconds, and benefit from

SSD RAID storage. You purchase a resource bundle and then allocate those resources to one or many virtual servers, and can resize them at any time. Here is a screenshot of the control panel and the operating systems available: http://d.pr/i/xxxxx

Regards,
Georgina

----------------------------------------------
Ticket ID: #4284XXX
Subject: Live chat with [email protected]
Status: Answered

Ticket URL: https://portal2.incero.com/viewticket.php?tid=428416&c=xxxxxxx



As most of us have already been made aware of, Gordon isn't always the brightest and might not fully comprehend basic human interaction, as such i expect a lengthy rude reply telling me how it's my fault you sent me spam. Because in the end of the day, you are always right, kinda*

* lolol.


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## Virtovo (Apr 12, 2014)

blergh said:


> So, apparently they've harvested all emails entered/used with their live-chat system and used those to send unsolicited bulkmail about "new" offers from them, like the one below.
> 
> ====== Please reply above this line ======
> 
> ...


Bad form.  Especially considering: http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/incero.com


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## jarland (Apr 12, 2014)

They took leads and reached out about a new product offering that they felt may meet the needs of the people who they were not able to previously negotiate a sale with to their satisfaction?


Those sons of bitches. I can't think of a better reason to grab a pitch fork and start with the personal insults.


Where's my sarcasm sign...


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

jarland said:


> They took leads and reached out about a new product offering that they felt may meet the needs of the people who they were not able to previously negotiate a sale with to their satisfaction?
> 
> 
> Those sons of bitches. I can't think of a better reason to grab a pitch fork and start with the personal insults.
> ...


Yeah, because reaching out to new leads that HAVE NOT FUCKING OPTED IN is always good business strategy and will make all potential customers really consider their bulk-mailed offer.

If i was interested i would have contacted them myself, obviously I am not and as such they should leave me the fuck alone.


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## jarland (Apr 12, 2014)

blergh said:


> Yeah, because reaching out to new leads that HAVE NOT FUCKING OPTED IN is always good business strategy and will make all potential customers really consider their bulk-mailed offer.
> 
> 
> If i was interested i would have contacted them myself, obviously I am not and as such they should leave me the fuck alone.


If I gave you some money out of my wallet right now, would that calm you down? I could just be reading it out if context, could be that the "fuck" key got stuck on your keyboard.


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## mikho (Apr 12, 2014)

Are you acting the same way every time you get media-markt ads in the mailbox?


Have you opt-in on those?


Delete the mail and move on.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

jarland said:


> If I gave you some money out of my wallet right now, would that calm you down? I could just be reading it out if context, could be that the "fuck" key got stuck on your keyboard.


More fucks equal better forum-posts, for drama and stuff!

Jokes aside, stuff like this pisses me off. Especially when coming from people like Incero.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

mikho said:


> Are you acting the same way every time you get media-markt ads in the mailbox?
> 
> 
> Have you opt-in on those?
> ...


Luckily i don't get IRL-spam, postbox!


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## HalfEatenPie (Apr 12, 2014)

Alright come on man. I think you're just angry today or something.

Point being, you provide Incero your e-mail because you were interested in their services. Being an individual who can possibly be interested in their VM line, they reach out to you to see if you're interested.

I don't see the problem.

Delete the e-mail, move on.

Or contact Incero and request you do not receive sales e-mail from them ever again.

This is basically just like a customer posting on a forum to complain about a provider without even opening a support ticket.

Tell them you don't want to receive e-mails from them anymore, then move on. If it continues, then go public.

Remember, you contacted them first. You never explicitly stated you didn't want to get sales e-mails.


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## Lee (Apr 12, 2014)

To be honest I get where Blergh is coming from for 2 reasons.  First he contacted them on live chat, I can't see anywhere on live chat that suggests you are opting in to receiving emails other than being contacted for the specific reason you contacted them for.

Incero go on a lot about how good they are when it comes to maintaining high standards in relation to mail spam, always pushing their http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/incero.com  and recently they enforced that over on LET when discussing this new brand.  If you are going to make such a big deal over this then you also need to make a big deal out of ensuring everyone you send a sales email to is opted in correctly.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm just leaving the thread here for anyone else who might have gotten the same garbage. Isn't it lovely when you trust someone like Incero with your email-address, and yet have to explicitly ask them not to send you spam? I've just gone ahead and dropped any email coming from them completely.

It's also somewhat saddening to see how many of you appear to be OK with sending garbage like this to people who might have just contacted you once or twice in regards to a service you may or may not have offered. Supposedly just randomly inquiring about something means I have magically opted in for more unsolicited garbage coming from your company going by this logic.

Now, simply following up on an email/question/inquiry I made X weeks/months ago is alright, using my email to send me "updates" or "offers" unless i have explicitly mentioned that I am OK with it is wrong.

Good luck with the marketing.


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## DomainBop (Apr 12, 2014)

> You never explicitly stated you didn't want to get sales e-mails.


 That is irrelevant under the CAN-SPAM law.  He opened up a live chat session and there is absolutely no mention on Incero's live chat that commercial email will be sent if the person enters their email address in the chat form.

They need to follow CAN-SPAM guidelines.  The only emails that are exempt from CAN-SPAM are transactional or relationship emails, neither of which would apply in Blergh's case (see definitions from the FTC below).  tl;dr Incero's email was UCE

_edited to add: I can't find a link to Incero's privacy policy on their site...although I did find this joke of a page through google: http://incero.com/privacy-policy.php_ 

From the FTC (note that business to business emails are NOT exempt from CANSPAM):



> Q. How do I know if the CAN-SPAM Act covers email my business is sending?
> A. What matters is the “primary purpose” of the message. To determine the primary purpose, remember that an email can contain three different types of information:
> 
> 
> ...





> Despite its name, the CAN-SPAM Act doesn’t apply just to bulk email. It covers all commercial messages, which the law defines as “any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service,” including email that promotes content on commercial websites. *The law makes no exception for business-to-business email.* That means all email – for example, a message to former customers announcing a new product line – must comply with the law.


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## jarland (Apr 12, 2014)

blergh said:


> I'm just leaving the thread here for anyone else who might have gotten the same garbage. Isn't it lovely when you trust someone like Incero with your email-address, and yet have to explicitly ask them not to send you spam? I've just gone ahead and dropped any email coming from them completely.
> 
> 
> It's also somewhat saddening to see how many of you appear to be OK with sending garbage like this to people who might have just contacted you once or twice in regards to a service you may or may not have offered. Supposedly just randomly inquiring about something means I have magically opted in for more unsolicited garbage coming from your company going by this logic.
> ...


I get it but honestly, you opened with personal insults and cursing over it like they just took a shit in your breakfast cereal. If you think that taking note of these and making light of your post after taking note of this means I'm "OK" with their action then you would be mistaken. I get your point and I'm sure they will as well, but you also need to realize that follow up marketing is a bit different than scraping the web for addresses.


Personally I would need your live chat transcript to make a conclusion. For all I know it ended with something like "We'll contact you if anything changes" and you never thought to say "Actually, don't."


But one conclusion I can absolutely draw is that you did not present yourself in a mature and professional manner today. Excuse me for not lighting a lower case T on Gordon's front lawn.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

jarland said:


> I get it but honestly, you opened with personal insults and cursing over it like they just took a shit in your breakfast cereal. If you think that taking note of these and making light of your post after taking note of this means I'm "OK" with their action then you would be mistaken. I get your point and I'm sure they will as well, but you also need to realize that follow up marketing is a bit different than scraping the web for addresses.
> 
> 
> Personally I would need your live chat transcript to make a conclusion. For all I know it ended with something like "We'll contact you if anything changes" and you never thought to say "Actually, don't."
> ...


Not so much personal insults as stating the inconvenient truth (®) with a bit of flame on top. They did indeed shit in my breakfast cereal as they sent me unsolicited garbage i never asked for.

I don't have the transcript neither, and from my recollection it's most probably months and months if not years since i last contacted them. Yet again, them contacting me about a follow-up would be fine whereas them contacting me to try and sell me their new service which is/was completely irrelevant to the original inquiry is not to be considered OK.

Mature and professional? I lol'd.


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## Coastercraze (Apr 12, 2014)

Well, at least they didn't Limestone you. I want to slap every frickin provider who sends me the lovely "hey switch to us your first month is free".


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## trewq (Apr 12, 2014)

Honestly I like these kinds of emails, as long as it's not one a day. It's nice being updated about new product offerings.


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## Mr. Obvious (Apr 12, 2014)

All I see here is the OP being a bad representative of the companies listed in his signature.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

Mr. Obvious said:


> All I see here is the OP being a bad representative of the companies listed in his signature.


Feel free to elaborate on exactly how it'd make me a bad representative!


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## jarland (Apr 12, 2014)

blergh said:


> Feel free to elaborate on exactly how it'd make me a bad representative!


1. Didn't bother to ask Incero why you received the message, rather you assumed a scenario and declared it truth because you assumed it.

2. Personal insults implying emotion and knee-jerk reactions are more important than communication and truth seeking.

If you fly off the handle over this tiny thing, without taking a moment to talk to the person who angered you, how are you going to handle a ticket where your first assumption isn't necessarily true?


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## serverian (Apr 12, 2014)

No, they are not.


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## gordonrp (Apr 12, 2014)

blergh said:


> So, apparently they've harvested all emails entered/used with their live-chat system and used those to send unsolicited bulkmail about "new" offers from them, like the one below.
> 
> ====== Please reply above this line ======
> 
> ...


H Blergh,

If you have a problem you can always reply to us, call us, or IM us. We're happy to help.

That said:

- 9/27/2011 - you asked for a free trial, we deployed a dedicated server for you completely free of charge for a week:

http://d.pr/i/g4yX/5v8BeqzG

- 10/21/2013 - you come on live chat asking about our services, we discuss options, you state that the item is too expensive, you enter your email

http://d.pr/i/C4cq/AhFOzpT2

We didn't randomly pick your email out of thin air, you initiated contact with us, we have provided you with free dedicated server services, and we have answered further questions since then from you about our products. I don't think that emailing you back about a new offering is worthy of calling us SPAMMERS.

I am sorry you feel that way though, and I have put a block on your domains so that you won't be emailed, and that you wont receive services from us in future. 

Kindly,

Gordon


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

gordonrp said:


> H Blergh,
> 
> If you have a problem you can always reply to us, call us, or IM us. We're happy to help.
> 
> ...


Hello Gordon,

Great! the initial contact & screenshot was three years ago (or so it seems) - nice. I'm still not sure how you assumed that I'd be OK with getting "information about new offers" or whatever you may wish to call it without even the possibility to opt out nor explicitly opt in.

I'm happy to hear that you've decided to stop sending me any further emails on your end, hopefully you'll stop doing the same to all/other potential leads who have not opted in.


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## gordonrp (Apr 12, 2014)

Will keep on doing exactly what I'm doing, and anyone that complains will be removed from being contacted in future, it's no big deal. 

Arguing on the Internet is retarded.


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## blergh (Apr 12, 2014)

gordonrp said:


> Will keep on doing exactly what I'm doing, and anyone that complains will be removed from being contacted in future, it's no big deal.
> 
> Arguing on the Internet is retarded.


I see.

Didn't get the feeling we were arguing, but I agree. Best of luck!


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## ChrisM (Apr 12, 2014)




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## Thelen (Apr 13, 2014)

They shouldn't have done that, definitely agree, but OTOH you over reacted as well...


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## MartinD (Apr 14, 2014)

gordonrp said:


> I am sorry you feel that way though, and I have put a block on your domains so that you won't be emailed, and that you wont receive services from us in future.
> 
> Kindly,
> 
> Gordon


Hi Gordon.

Would be good if you restricted it to his domains and not mine to which I've received emails saying we're now blocked.


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## kaniini (Apr 14, 2014)

gordonrp said:


> Will keep on doing exactly what I'm doing, and anyone that complains will be removed from being contacted in future, it's no big deal.


I wish you luck with your future Spamhaus listing. Live-chat contacts are not confirmed opt-in subscriptions to any mailing list.


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## jarland (Apr 14, 2014)

kaniini said:


> I wish you luck with your future Spamhaus listing. Live-chat contacts are not confirmed opt-in subscriptions to any mailing list.


Is responding to a support ticket? Look at the original message again, right before the picture of the kid. Looks like a presales ticket. I'm guessing they open tickets for presales inquiries or for some live chats? Seems it was more than just a chat to me.


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## serverian (Apr 14, 2014)

jarland said:


> right before the picture of the kid


Chloe!!


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## blergh (Apr 15, 2014)

jarland said:


> Is responding to a support ticket? Look at the original message again, right before the picture of the kid. Looks like a presales ticket. I'm guessing they open tickets for presales inquiries or for some live chats? Seems it was more than just a chat to me.


Nah, as mentioned by Gordon earlier my latest contact with them was 10/21/2013 (If i recall correctly, this is completely unrelated to being interested in a cloud/vps). This ticket was opened and an email was sent out to notify me about this newly opened ticket, which contained the above mentioned advertising/offer.


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