# Manchester Attack



## Lee (May 23, 2017)

So many children, just a sickening targetted attack... No words..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40010124


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## graeme (May 23, 2017)

The first I knew of it was when I got an SMS from my sister asking whether we were OK. We are not far from Manchester and go in occasionally.

I found it sickening, but I also remember the people who did it want us to be sickened and to disrupt our normal lives. We need to carry on as normal (except for those who are in a position to directly help victims and their families, of course).


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

graeme said:


> We need to carry on as normal


Going on as normal will not solve anything. It will make things worse and will bring more dictators in power. Brexit and Trump are just the punishment for doing all same and expecting different results.
Need to press the governments to end occupation in muslim countries, to stop propping up murderous regimes, to rein in Israel and the mockery of the so called peace process which means we take your land, demolish your homes, cut your olive trees and you have to be happy and turn the other cheek.
We must rise up and protest the violence, the religious nuts in power, on all sides, stop voting religiously, against neighbours and ethnic groups, stop discrimination, racism, the bunker attitude did not bring peace to Israel, will not bring peace anywhere else, it does not work, eventually, people will realize that, but how many millions still have to die until then?
As long as the daily slaughter in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, India, Burma and many other places do not stop, when el-Sisi receives american military aid to kill his people, when Assad gets the same from Russia and Iran with the same goal, when other puppet regimes are kept in place just because they promise to kill many of their people and support the "right" religion or sect, there will never be peace.
We must decide if we want peace or win the crusades. Can't have both.


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## graeme (May 23, 2017)

@maounique I was talking about the immediate reaction, especially emotional, and what ordinary people do day to day, you are talking political and long term action.

I agree with much of what you say, particularly policies that make things worse (like making alliances with extremists, even talking to them as though they were allies in fighting extremists, as Trump has been doing). I disagree with a fair bit of the specifics of what you way though.


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## WasNotWSS (May 23, 2017)

graeme said:


> I disagree with a fair bit of the specifics of what you way though.



This just means your sanity is still intact.


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

graeme said:


> I was talking about the immediate reaction



Ah, agreed, that is the correct answer on short term, however, it wont happen, more armed police and paramilitaries will roam the streets, more money will go on spying, more rights taken from the people in the name of being tough on islam, drugs and child porn, unless short term means under a week, that will happen, just watch the news and you will see how governments are taking every opportunity to attack human rights and civil liberties. 
On the short term we must go on and ignore this, after all, the death toll from this is way less than from traffic accidents, in the long term we must fight fear and those which try to create the conditions for confrontation to maintain this fear. IS is a small fish, they can't really hurt us, the real damage we are doing ourselves, in a million years IS could not replicate the damages Brexit will do, nor manage to take our rights away in the rhythm we give them away due to the fear maintained by the propaganda.
Just think how much money goes into policing airports and planes, new border controls, surveillance, armies and weapons in the field, the rockets, helicopters, planes, wages of those, if 10% of this would go into aid and integration, not only that we would be much richer, but much safer too.



WasNotWSS said:


> This just means your sanity is still intact.



American, right? Winning wars left and right since like forever...


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## Jonathan (May 23, 2017)

ISIS has claimed responsibility. Go figure.


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## ChrisM (May 23, 2017)

This is tragic. It just goes to show in a place with as much security precautions as the UK things like this can still happen.


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## Lee (May 23, 2017)

ChrisM said:


> This is tragic. It just goes to show in a place with as much security precautions as the UK things like this can still happen.



At an event like that, anywhere in the world the chances of finding that one individual is so slim. Having to walk through body scanners will be next just to get into a concert.

If that happens there needs to be a facility to allow detonation of anything found with the person still inside.


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

Lee said:


> If that happens


The terrorists already won. When everywhere, in the traffic, streets, institutions, stadia, we have concrete slabs anti blast, body scanners, "green zones", army and paramilitary people with weapons on display ready to kill by mistake or simple abuse of the impunity they enjoy more than the terrorists would ever do and costing billions each month, then they can say mission accomplished. The other self-inflicted wounds, such as extreme right regimes, polices states, populist government mismanaging the economy and cracking down hard on dissent a la Erdogan or Duterte, Le Pen's FN or BNP, trumps, putins and the like, that would be just the icing on the cake, they got what they wanted, abolition of democracy and war+poverty.
Well played.
We can still have a say whether this is worth it for "the correct religion's" improbable victory, but the window of opportunity is closing fast. Today our vote counts, but tomorrow is coming and all signs point to disaster if we continue on the same path.


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## WasNotWSS (May 23, 2017)

Can you go back to defending peodphiles so I don't have to read your dreck?


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

WasNotWSS said:


> Can you go back to defending peodphiles so I don't have to read your dreck?



If you can read, which I doubt beyond one liners, you would know that is only one of the many excuses used by various regimes to stifle free speech, throw an accusation and eliminate dissent, does not have to be real, just bad enough so people do not investigate it. Since most are TL;DR like you, it works. Good job 
Just out of curiosity, what was the last book you read? Same for your friend Jarland.
Comics and technical manuals don't count.


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## WasNotWSS (May 23, 2017)

Congratulations on your flippant comments- I bet you felt like you won an argument- when nobody who actually has seen your schizophrenic induced word salad would bother. I laugh at the monkey cage; I don't engage it.


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

q.e.d.


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## WasNotWSS (May 23, 2017)

Actually, I'm not done. I don't know why, but why not- let's bring it over here:

You have been claiming that actual child porn is freedom of speech, but making fun of people who were convicted of actually trying to touch children is debasement and detrimental. @jarland can attest to this.

This is why I dislike you, and why I will never attempt to engage you as a human being, because you have just as much of my disgust as you do pity.

For what it's worth, the last book I read was a magazine: American Rifleman. There are some purrty guns in there.


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## maounique (May 23, 2017)

WasNotWSS said:


> @jarland can attest to this.



Sure he can, he called me a nazi and never apologized, he is a religious nut-job which never proved anything. I asked for an apology for breaking the rules supporting and offering hosting for illegal things which received take down court orders in the past, doxing and the like, as well as name calling, but he proceeded to more rules breaking calling names and slandering me in the hope I will stop calling his BS until he had no choice but make up a rule and ban me.
The fact you believe it and dont bother to check just because you hold the same views is why I say q.e.d.
Keep reading that, it is good for your health and bad for all the vermin around. You should go cull some of it one day soon. There should be some sex offender around, just read the doxers or even better, ask Jarland, he has good connections, he knows all the people not even on the lists yet. He knows me too as well as some other monkeys he disagrees with. You would make a great monkey eradication team together with ishaq, raindog and other yes-men around him.


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## Nick (May 24, 2017)

Now now...think this is starting to be dragged off topic here a bit. It's safe to say we all have our different opinions but that doesn't mean we need to head off-topic completely.


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## maounique (May 24, 2017)

Nick said:


> dragged off topic



Hum, off-topic stuff in the off-topic section, who would have thought...
This is not completely off the original post either, these attacks do not happen out of the blue, as long as we consider there is an enemy out there out to get us for completely no reason or because they are simply evil will not help anything.
We need to understand the context and see beyond the corpses and tragedies. Otherwise we will learn nothing and will continue on the same path towards tragedy and meltdown of civilization.
People like Jarland and WSS are part of the problem, advocating violence and disobedience of the law and own rules they apply to others to stop "inconvenient" people from having a say. We will never make progress if we only try to jump the gun literally and never bother to listen.


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## Nick (May 24, 2017)

maounique said:


> Hum, off-topic stuff in the off-topic section, who would have thought...



Sure, it's an off-topic section however this thread is about the Manchester attack. You two are more than welcome to take your little fight to the cesspit thread


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## maounique (May 24, 2017)

And, as I said, this attack as many others before we learned nothing from, are not happening out of the blue without any cause or only because "muslims are evil". The causes are mostly religious, true, but it is valid on both sides of the war. The religious wars will bring the worst out of people and the killing will continue. We see our own kids killed only, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...est-on-record-isis-donald-trump-a7751911.html

Of course, we are justified to kill them from a safe distance, their kids are scum and breeding too fast anyway, but they have no right to touch us through suicide bombers, people that have nothing left to lose, we are white and christian, the cream of civilization.
I suggest you quit the OT pretense, better label me terrorist make a rule against terrorists and their supporters and ban me. Ask jarland and Martin D for quick HowTos.


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## WSWD (May 24, 2017)

ChrisM said:


> This is tragic. It just goes to show in a place with as much security precautions as the UK things like this can still happen.



All the security precautions in the world are not going to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. The problem is that Europe, as a whole, keeps welcoming these muslims into their countries. They despise how we live. The despise what we have. They despise the religion we choose or not choose to practice. They hate everything about us. They want to live like they're in the 1100s, and treat each other like animals.

Some day Europe is going to wake up and realize how stupid it is to welcome these people. The US is getting there slowly but surely.


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## raindog308 (May 24, 2017)

Well, this was a fun thread. I was going to remove some posts but decided to leave them as examples of posts that are no welcome here.

1. @maounique we understand you don't like @jarland, but vpsBoard is not a place to rehash your grudge. Knock it off and stop polluting threads with it. We really don't want to hear any more about why you were banned on LowEndTalk, whether or not it was just, etc. *We just don't care.* Not sure why you think insulting mods here is a path to victory, but in a few short threads you've labeled most of the staff here at vpsB and LET as yes men, monkey eradicators (?), and "part of the problem" leading us towards the coming "meltdown of civilization".

If you want to come here to discuss VPSes, hosting, technology, the Internet, etc. you're more than welcome If you're going to come here and thrash around in threads about problems you've had in other forums and insulting others, then you'll be banned. Take this as your only warning.

2. @WSWD9 your post was over the top. You're painting something like 1.7 billion people with a broad terrorist brush. When you say things like "they despise how we live" and "they treat each other like animals" you've crossed a line. Immigration policy is one thing...saying every muslim is a terrorist is something very different and is inappropriate.

3. I have nothing against monkeys and have never eradicated a single one. But I am a religious nut-job (I even go to Church!) and am disappointed I wasn't labeled as such. And I'm an NRA life member and American Rifleman member, too! I feel inadequately labeled. Well, it's a been a busy thread.


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## Lee (May 24, 2017)

WSWD said:


> Some day Europe is going to wake up and realise how stupid it is to welcome these people.



Easy to say, the theory behind it is also quite simple. Close all the borders, gun turrets and everything at the ready. Leave all the countries that don't conform to our 'standards' isolated and let them get on with it. Will it solve the current issues? No, we would then need to expel all Muslims (because only Muslims are terrorists) from Europe, sound like familiar territory yet? 

Having done all that we sit back, relax and enjoy a Muslim/Terrorist free EU. Oh wait, that country over there we were going to leave to fight things out amongst themselves, now they are amassing an army close to an EU border, right, it's the leadership, time to take them out. Fuck, refugees again, better open the border and let them in, we were partly to blame this time. Oh wait, sound familiar?

And on it goes. 

There will always be views on the best way to deal with elements of life and the world, but there is never the best way.


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## raindog308 (May 24, 2017)

On further reflection, I think I owe @WSWD an apology. He wrote:

"All the security precautions in the world are not going to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. The problem is that Europe, as a whole, keeps welcoming these muslims into their countries. They despise how we live."

The phrase "these muslims" is ambiguous (at least in my mind) and I erred in reading it too broadly. I think that when @WSWD referred to people who despise freedom of religion and want to return the world to 1100, he was referring to radicalized Islamic terrorists - crazy people doing crazy things - and that is certainly true. If you read "these muslims" as all muslims, it's outrageous...if you read it as referring to ISIS, it's spot on.

Sorry 'bout that...yet another example of the dangers of discussing religion and politics on the 'net. Or moderating when sober.


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## MannDude (May 24, 2017)

Someone reported a comment in this thread. I won't say who reported what, but let me just say this:

Think about what you're posting and who all may be able to see it in the future.

With that said, no action was taken because I felt like no action was needed. I'm all for free speech, and I'm really only convinced to remove stuff when identifying information is posted about people that should not be posted or if something is blatant spam.

Someone, or even some people being offended isn't reason to remove anyone's comment. I like to leave stuff like that up for other people to see, too.


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