# Zimmerman found not guilty.... Your thoughts?



## MannDude (Jul 13, 2013)

For those of you familiar with the case, what are your opinions?

While I think Zimmerman should not have followed or confronted the teen, he was within his legal right to defend himself the way he did and I'm glad to see him walk away from it not guilty. He'll have to live the rest of his life knowing he took the life of another man, which for most would be 'punishment' enough. He acted within the law, and I'm glad to see he wasn't sentenced due to some fear of riots as the main stream media has reported.


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## Zach (Jul 13, 2013)

MannDude said:


> For those of you familiar with the case, what are your opinions?
> 
> While I think Zimmerman should not have followed or confronted the teen, he was within his legal right to defend himself the way he did and I'm glad to see him walk away from it not guilty. He'll have to live the rest of his life knowing he took the life of another man, which for most would be 'punishment' enough. He acted within the law, and I'm glad to see he wasn't sentenced due to some fear of riots as the main stream media has reported.


I agree with all of what you said.  Zimmerman was explicitly told by the 911 operator to not confront Travyon Martin, instead he did.  That is the only problem/evidence against him.  In my opinion, I believe there was a struggle and it was clearly self defense.  There are many other opinions and speculation, but only Zimmerman knows what truly happened.


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## MannDude (Jul 13, 2013)

Zach said:


> I agree with all of what you said.  Zimmerman was explicitly told by the 911 operator to not confront Travyon Martin, instead he did.  That is the only problem/evidence against him.  In my opinion, I believe there was a struggle and it was clearly self defense.  There are many other opinions and speculation, but only Zimmerman knows what truly happened.


It should also be noted that 911 operators do not provide legal advice, and there word is merely a suggestion.

Though I agree that he should not have confronted him or followed him, and I am sure in hindsight he wished he had not done so either.


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## Nick_A (Jul 13, 2013)

Being from around there, it's certainly weird to have watched it unfold on television. Sanford is not a large town at all.

Anyway, it was a tragedy all around but it would have been, as the defense said afterward, a travesty if he was convicted. Zimmerman may be a scumbag for all we know, but the prosecution was shameful. Despite what the state attorney said during the question/answer session, it was clear that the prosecution was at no point interested in the letter of the law.


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## drmike (Jul 14, 2013)

Justice served.   IT pawn fired in the process for hiding/not releasing info to the defense team.   Obama / Justice Department allegedly spent tax money to organize protests earlier in this circus.  Ho hum.  Some sort of divide and conquer race baiting.   Strange since Zimmerman is Hispanic with what seems like a Jewish last name.

I have plenty of popcorn and am waiting for those Twitter fools and their threats to bring the riots.



> Zimmerman was explicitly told by the 911 operator to not confront Travyon Martin, instead he did. That is the only problem/evidence against him.


What does dispatch know about anything?  

I once had a guy plow into me in downtown rush hour type traffic then nearly run me over leaving the scene. He jumped curbs, took sidewalks, etc.   The whole time my passenger was on the phone with dispatch with full details of the perp.   2 minutes later, entering the "ghetto" and dispatch said to stop following the guy.  Eventually I stopped, and waited for an HOUR for a police cruiser to show up.  That was after flagging down a county sheriff and calling dispatch twice.

Scumbag had no license, no insurance and did $3k in damages.  The city fined him $75 and did nothing else.  Hitting an occupied vehicle and fleeing the scene is supposed to be a fairly serious felony I believe.

Me, I should have kept following him and gave him a case of lead poisoning.

Oh yeah and the guy was whacked out on street drugs (crack or heroin --- never was clear).

Yeah dispatchers are real helpful.   

Police and their imaginary monopoly on civil order and show of force.


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

There are a ton of examples from Twitter of idiots upset over the verdict.


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## Zach (Jul 14, 2013)

MannDude said:


> There are a ton of examples from Twitter of idiots upset over the verdict.


Ridiculous... Taking innocent people's lives because of a verdict.  I knew this whole trial was going to be racially charged from the start.


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## Magiobiwan (Jul 14, 2013)

Manslaughter would have been the appropriate charge, rather than Murder II. Had the prosecution pushed for manslaughter rather than Murder II, they may well have gotten a conviction.


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

Magiobiwan said:


> Manslaughter would have been the appropriate charge, rather than Murder II. Had the prosecution pushed for manslaughter rather than Murder II, they may well have gotten a conviction.


Facts: Forensics investigator stated there were grass stains on the knees of Trayvon and Zimmerman had grass stains on his back. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who was on top doing the attacking and who was on bottom. Zimmerman had a broken nose and lacerations to the back of his head from it being slammed into the pavement. Trayvon had broken skin on his knuckles indicating he was punching him. (As well as a history of violence, drug use, and as his text message records would indicate multiple attempts to purchase an illegal gun... Though none of this could have been known at the time).

Zimmerman acted in self defense. You can die from having your head banged against concrete. The type of person who will randomly attack you for approaching them or questioning them is the same type of person capable of much worse than just throwing some punches.


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## drmike (Jul 14, 2013)

Zach said:


> Ridiculous... Taking innocent people's lives because of a verdict.  I knew this whole trial was going to be racially charged from the start.


Let the urban filth kill and burn their paradises to the ground.

Unsure why sane folks haven't followed the many decades pattern (50+ years) in the United States --- flee the cities you dolts!


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

Watching protests on UStream right now...

Also a no-audio protest in Oakland: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live was burning flags earlier and what not.

Nothing too crazy happening yet.


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

And so it begins...


EDIT: These are in Oakland, so I guess its pretty much business as usual.


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## mikho (Jul 14, 2013)

I never understood how public vandalism would help the cause you are fighting for?


The most it will do is make people who know little about the case chose the "other" side because of this idiots.


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

mikho said:


> I never understood how public vandalism would help the cause you are fighting for?
> 
> 
> The most it will do is make people who know little about the case chose the "other" side because of this idiots.


Well, here is the conundrum. You've got people who believe Trayvon was a kind innocent young man. who are outraged at this big 'white' (not white) man for brutally murdering him. These folks are on Twitter, so very upset, so upset they're wanting to go out and kill 'white boys'.

If that doesn't make sense, good. Because it doesn't. But that's the mindset for some.

"AHH I'm so mad I'm gonna smash this window and burn this flag. That'll show them!"


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

What are they protesting? The police? Zimmerman walking free? I don't know if they know what they're doing anymore.


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## mikho (Jul 14, 2013)

My guess is that the majority of those walking the streets are young people led by a strong leader who has another agenda then the original case.


What i ment earlier is that in my eyes it will never make me listen to the people who trashes and destroys public property. It is never ok to commit a crime to protest against another crime.


The police is often just the "tool" that carrys out what other has decided, in this case the court.


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## mikho (Jul 14, 2013)

In other Florida news.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/


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## MannDude (Jul 14, 2013)

mikho said:


> In other Florida news.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/


It's a fucked up situation. She should have never been arrested. Her abusive husband was violating a restraining order and she had the right to defend herself.

Sounds like her lawyer was awful.


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## Naruto (Jul 14, 2013)

Travyon, played by Jaden Smith, is shown at school, raising his hand in lit class. The wise Hispanic teacher, played by Antonio Banderas, calls on him. Trayvon stand up and recites lines of Shakespeare in a hip, cool, but moving rap. As he sits down Banderas smiles and nods at him with a wise, knowing approval. 

 

Trayvon is seen hanging out after school on the lush greens of the front school yard with his friends, featuring the girl who played Precious, plus a mix of races: a white blonde girl, a Hispanic kid, an Urkel-looking black nerd, a white kid with his hat on backwards. A veritable Burger King Kids Club. 

 

Cut to a dark apartment, where Zimmerman, played by Luis Guzman, is doing pull-ups, with the words FEAR and HATE inked on his knuckles. He then practices shooting his empty gun at himself in a mirror. "You talking to me?" Guzman says. "You in MY neighborhood?" He then sits down to watch Birth of a Nation. 

 

Cut to Trayvon at home, at the dinner table with his parents, played by Jamie Foxx and Maya Angelou. They discuss Tray's future plans of being an airline pilot. "It's a mighty big responsibility," Jamie Foxx says. "Having all those souls onboard." "I know," Jaden/Tray says. "I want to be like Sully some day though." 

 

After dinner his little brother asks him if he can go get some candy and tea. Even though it's raining out, Tray agrees. In slow-mo he zips up his hoody, pulled from the dryer. 

 

Cut to Zimmerman patrolling the streets as rain pours on his uncovered head. He does tuck-and-rolls across neighbors' lawns, pulling out his gun and pointing it at dark shadows. A cat crosses his path and he fires at it. He chuckles mercilessly.

 

"Keep the change," Tray says with a smile to the woman working at the convenience store. With the snacks for his brother he walks out of the store, not before passing by a magazine with Sully on the cover. Tray smiles. 

 

Cut to Trayvon skipping down the sidewalk. A group of multicultural young males is there smoking pot. "You wanna get high?" one asks. "No," Trayvon answers, "then I'll never be able to be a pilot." He continues to skip down the path and eventually enters the condo complex. 

 

As Trayvon turns a corner, a sweaty and enraged Zimmerman emerges from the shadows. "Where do you think you're going, NIGGER?" 

 

Trayvon stumbles on his words and tries to answer but is silenced when Zim cold cocks himself with the gun and starts beating himself on the back of his own head. "Help! Help! Somebody help me!" Zimmerman screams. 

 

"Please sir, I just want to return home to my brother and finish my homework," Trayvon pleads. 

 

"That's too bad," Zimmerman says. He then empties his entire gun cartridge into the baby-faced teen. "It looks like your dog ate it."

 



 

Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw-pvCREZTY


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## OverlordQ (Jul 14, 2013)

None of the police that took the stand could ever find any evidence that could contradict at any point any of Zimmermans statements.  Zimmerman stated that he was on his way back to his vehicle to meet the police when Martin jumped him. Zimmerman did not want a confrontation.



> On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test performed on George Zimmerman the day after the shooting.[192][193] A voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions.[194] Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes."[192] The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report


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## Naruto (Jul 14, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RX_4opCwCkM#t=669s


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## blergh (Jul 14, 2013)

http://youtu.be/T_ZUww4urFA?t=21s


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## jarland (Jul 14, 2013)

Not my job to have an opinion. Not sure where everyone (not necessarily here) gets off thinking they know everything about everything. This is for people who were there to know what happened, and for a judge and jury to determine the validity of the charges filed against him. Justice is not based on passionate race bating news stories and twitter polls.


If he's not guilty of the charges, they did well. If he is, prosecution or judge or jury messed up. But then that's the job of the state of Florida, not random citizen from far away who didn't witness anything but the irresponsible news stories on both sides of the issue.


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (Jul 14, 2013)

People revel in thinking they should voice their opinions on everything when they're ill-informed and rely on inflammatory online posts and newspapers that tend to cherry pick which facts to present in order to 'spice' things up.


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## ChrisM (Jul 14, 2013)

MannDude said:


> For those of you familiar with the case, what are your opinions?
> 
> 
> While I think Zimmerman should not have followed or confronted the teen, he was within his legal right to defend himself the way he did and I'm glad to see him walk away from it not guilty. He'll have to live the rest of his life knowing he took the life of another man, which for most would be 'punishment' enough. He acted within the law, and I'm glad to see he wasn't sentenced due to some fear of riots as the main stream media has reported.





This case is the reason why I say our country has the best Justice system in the world. Sure this case was an example of something that shouldn't have made it this far anyways. Because George Zimmerman was forced to defend himself protecting his community against a someone which was up to no good. In the end the Jury sided with George Zimmerman and did not convict someone who did nothing wrong which is the right thing to do. 



MannDude said:


> What are they protesting? The police? Zimmerman walking free? I don't know if they know what they're doing anymore.


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## texteditor (Jul 14, 2013)

Didn't know vpsboard was filled with so many closet racists


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## Naruto (Jul 14, 2013)

>8th Grader Trayvon Martin is walking home in his graduation cap and gown 
>Aryan Nation member George Zimmerman driving around in his Confederate Flag draped pickup 
>Zimmerman spots Trayvon through the night by the glow of his halo 
>The Klansman takes chase 
>The football star nearly outruns him, but he is trapped by a "do not enter" sign 
>Faced with certain death or disobeying the law, he makes his stand 
>Trayvon attempts to reason his attacker, but the illiterate racist will have none of it 
>Zimmerman steps out of his vehicle and asks "Any last words?" 
>Trayvon looks his executioner in the eye and replies "World Peace" 
>"WHITE POWER!" exclaims Zimmerman as he unloads with his fully-automatic assault rifle 
>If not for the Republican party he may have survived, but the skinhead's extended magazine, unfettered by their legislation unloads hundreds of rounds into the future Nobel Piece Prize recipient 
>Zimmerman then bashes his own head into the curb repeatedly screaming "help me!" 
>When he is finished, Hitler himself steps back into his gas-guzzling vehicle 
>As Trayvon lay dying, the last thing he sees is the "Bush Cheney 2004" bumper sticker disappear into the night


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## Jeffrey (Jul 14, 2013)

I honestly think Zimmerman should have been guilty.  He has negative history before any of this happened.  He is just a wanna be cop.  He could have defended himself, during the incident without using a gun.  He caused Treyvon to hit him, he caused the scene.  I honestly think that if you kill a human, you should be thrown in jail, unless you are threatened, to where you think you will die.


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## BlueVM (Jul 14, 2013)

Zimmerman was found not guilty because there was no evidence. There was no evidence and thus there could be no conviction. This should have never gone to court for that reason alone. Wait until you have evidence or simply put it's nothing but people arguing about race. If they could even remotely prove Zimmerman did something illegal I'd be perfectly happy with a guilty verdict, but you have to have evidence otherwise it's 100% an argument about race and that's not constitutional nor is it right.

If people can be convicted for things we think they did everyone would be in jail. Proof is everything.

The minute anyone has any proof that he intentionally went out that night with the idea in his head that he was going to kill someone that's when he would be guilty. Since no one has any proof he can not and should not go to prison for it.

If you feel he should we should probably lock you up for piracy as well since you've probably committed piracy.


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## Jeffrey (Jul 14, 2013)

BlueVM said:


> people arguing about race.


 

The race issue has gotten out of control.  I actually never viewed this trial as a racial issue until people have been acting this way on Twitter/Facebook.  It is not whites against blacks, Zimmerman is hispanic, not white.  Almost all of my Facebook friends are acting like he's white and it's getting annoying!  Who cares what race anybody is!  We are all equal!


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## texteditor (Jul 14, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> The race issue has gotten out of control.  I actually never viewed this trial as a racial issue until people have been acting this way on Twitter/Facebook.  It is not whites against blacks, Zimmerman is hispanic, not white.  Almost all of my Facebook friends are acting like he's white and it's getting annoying!  Who cares what race anybody is!  We are all equal!



It's called "passing as white", which Zimmerman definitely does (especially compared to Trayvon), which is why all the hate groups so readily rallied behind him.

Also, you should look up the conviction rates for white people vs. black people when it comes to claiming self-defense (or any crime) - we are not all equal in the eyes of the law in America.


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## texteditor (Jul 14, 2013)

BlueVM said:


> Zimmerman was found not guilty because there was no evidence. There was no evidence and thus there could be no conviction. This should have never gone to court for that reason alone. Wait until you have evidence or simply put it's nothing but people arguing about race. If they could even remotely prove Zimmerman did something illegal I'd be perfectly happy with a guilty verdict, but you have to have evidence otherwise it's 100% an argument about race and that's not constitutional nor is it right.
> 
> If people can be convicted for things we think they did everyone would be in jail. Proof is everything.


Here's the thing: you really shouldn't be able to kill someone with a firearm and not get a default 'manslaughter' until you prove you were actually acting in self defense. All this has done is prove that as long as there are no witnesses, you can effectively kill anyone and call it self defense


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## Jeffrey (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, what are they feeding these prisoners?!?!?  How in the world do you gain 100lbs while in prison?  When I think of prison, I think of working out, exercising, and shitty food.  Apparently this isn't the case based on Zimmerman's weight gain!


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## texteditor (Jul 14, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> Man, what are they feeding these prisoners?!?!?  How in the world do you gain 100lbs while in prison?  When I think of prison, I think of working out, exercising, and shitty food.  Apparently this isn't the case based on Zimmerman's weight gain!


He wasn't in prison, even after his first bail got revoked for perjury he was able to post the higher one.

edit: and thanks to all that sweet, sweet racist donation money in his fund, he probably ate pretty well


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## Jeffrey (Jul 14, 2013)

*@**texteditor*,

I am only going by my local news station. Lol


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## texteditor (Jul 14, 2013)

BlueVM said:


> The minute anyone has any proof that he intentionally went out that night with the idea in his head that he was going to kill someone that's when he would be guilty. Since no one has any proof he can not and should not go to prison for it.


That's only the requirements for First degree murder (and kinda second). Manslaughter is probably the perfect charge we have for a case like this, but he escaped that.



Magiobiwan said:


> Manslaughter would have been the appropriate charge, rather than Murder II. Had the prosecution pushed for manslaughter rather than Murder II, they may well have gotten a conviction.


I agree, but in the wacky State of Florida the Court can find you guilty of a lesser charge (e.g., second can be dropped to manslaughter), so prosecutors are basically encouraged to swing for the fences so to speak with the charges, even if they have to settle at a lesser one.

Manslaughter was on the table as soon as the 2nd degree charge was filed.

It's really dumb, but then again so is everything in Florida


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## Naruto (Jul 15, 2013)

Trayboon's texts: http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report1.pdf


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## maounique (Jul 15, 2013)

Indeed, if you kill anyone, you must prove you were in self-defense, but circumstantial evidence should also be OK.

For example, if it happened in your house, you have an already strong argument, if it happened at 2 AM and the victim was wearing a ski mask, then it is enough, even if he had no gun.

If he had a gun, it could be enough even if he didnt fire it. It depends on circumstances, if you have a 60+ person alone in home and a guy comes and gets shoot by the house owner/tenant which was being being a respected citizen without serious criminal record, even if the victim had no gun, wore no ski mask, the killer had no injuries, it is highly unlikely it was murder and the killer felt threatened because it was highly unliukely hes in any position to defend himself if the victim which was 16-30 could reach for him, unless they had some business before, are relatives or something, in which case more evidence for self defense should be brought before the jury.

It all depends on many clues and small evidence pieces, some circumstantial, to convince a jury. I was watching this and, while I was not convinced the man was not guilty, I was far from convinced he was guilty either, in this case, he walks. Simple.


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## mikho (Jul 15, 2013)

texteditor said:


> Here's the thing: you really shouldn't be able to kill someone with a firearm and not get a default 'manslaughter' until you prove you were actually acting in self defense. All this has done is prove that as long as there are no witnesses, you can effectively kill anyone and call it self defense


Read this. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/


Not even killing the other person and still getting 20 years.


Strange world we live in or what?


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## texteditor (Jul 15, 2013)

mikho said:


> Read this. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/
> 
> 
> Not even killing the other person and still getting 20 years.
> ...



Florida is basically one big Free-For-All deathmatch, where the only rule is that minorities can't use any firearms

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133


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## maounique (Jul 15, 2013)

Come on, that is US, you dont expect to be judged with the same measure, do you ?

They support terrorist countries which apply collective punishments, keep ppl in jail without trial (US does too), demolish houses, seize land, army shoots unarmed civilians in self defense, bombs indiscriminately in retaliation, pisses on UN resolutions (US does too), occupies foreign countries and attacks others under pretexts less credible than Hitler's, preaches the nuclear danger when they have nuclear weapons in breach of the international law, yet, that is a country worth spending 10s of billions to maintain the bunker and opress the occupied, while ppl die of hunger at the borders because of the blocade, and international aid is blocked due to fears the food may end up in the wrong hands.

That is US, the last crusading country, are you sure you are expecting justice to be served there ?


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## Jeffrey (Jul 15, 2013)

Watch out!  Zimmerman still has his gun! :S I am scared to walk to up to my gas station these days.


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## GVH-Jon (Jul 15, 2013)

MannDude said:


> It's a fucked up situation. She should have never been arrested. Her abusive husband was violating a restraining order and she had the right to defend herself.
> 
> Sounds like her lawyer was awful.


I betcha she wouldn't be in jail right now if Mark O'Mara was her lawyer. He did an extremely good job in the Zimmerman case.


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## Jeffrey (Jul 15, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> I betcha she wouldn't be in jail right now if Mark O'Mara was her lawyer. He did an extremely good job in the Zimmerman case.


He didn't do a great job, there just wasn't enough evidence.  Same with the Casey Anthony case.


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2013)

Like I said, I don't think he should have approached the teen. Guy was just walking through a neighborhood and wasn't peepin' in windows or knocking over trashcans or anything. But the teen attacked him, and he defended himself within the confines of the law.

People keep calling it a 'race crime', thinking Zimmerman killed the teen because he was black. Zimmerman has a black step-sister, has a black ex-girlfriend, and even spoke out against a white-cop who beat a black homeless man. The guy isn't a racist, at least according to his track-record.

People got all upset for no reason, ignoring the fact that there are thousands of deaths each year from black individuals killing each other. Then some 'white' (but not white, hispanic) guy kills a black teen in self-defense and the media loved it! So much drama! Big fat white racist man hunted down an innocent black angel to murder in cold blood. Lets ignore the facts presented to us, forget the fact that Trayvon was a 'thug' (history of violence and fighting, being kicked out of school for drugs, attempting to purchase a firearm illegally, etc) and lets plaster photos of him on the TV of when he was 12 so he looks more innocent and angelic.

It's an unfortunate event, but Zimmerman didn't really break any laws. It's sad to say though, that blacks still get treated unfairly in a lot of parts in America, but this is NOT an example of that. An example of injustice would be the black woman who fired 2 warning shots in the air at her abusive husband who she had a restraining order against, also in Florida, and who is facing 20 years in prison for trying to prevent an attack on herself.


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## Jeffrey (Jul 15, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Like I said, I don't think he should have approached the teen. Guy was just walking through a neighborhood and wasn't peepin' in windows or knocking over trashcans or anything. But the teen attacked him, and he defended himself within the confines of the law.
> 
> 
> People keep calling it a 'race crime', thinking Zimmerman killed the teen because he was black. Zimmerman has a black step-sister, has a black ex-girlfriend, and even spoke out against a white-cop who beat a black homeless man. The guy isn't a racist, at least according to his track-record.
> ...


I agree with you, however, if you were Zimmerman, would you have shot him?  If someone was following me in a car staring me down thinking I'm suspicious, I would have done the exact same thing Treyvon did.  It's self defense.  I'm not going to walk home and ignore him.  If I was Zimmerman in that situation, I would have not shot the kid, attacking me or not.  I would have acted like an adult in the situation and would have sat there allowing himself to hit me, then I would report him for attacking.  Zimmerman was much older than Treyvon was, he could have defended himself another way, hell, he could have just drove away.


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## Zach (Jul 15, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> I agree with you, however, if you were Zimmerman, would you have shot him?  If someone was following me in a car staring me down thinking I'm suspicious, I would have done the exact same thing Treyvon did.  It's self defense.  I'm not going to walk home and ignore him.  If I was Zimmerman in that situation, I would have not shot the kid, attacking me or not.  I would have acted like an adult in the situation and would have sat there allowing himself to hit me, then I would report him for attacking.  Zimmerman was much older than Treyvon was, he could have defended himself another way, hell, he could have just drove away.


If he allowed him to continually beat him, he could have very easily been killed.


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## Jeffrey (Jul 15, 2013)

Zach said:


> If he allowed him to continually beat him, he could have very easily been killed.


Yes, he could have, but I am speaking for myself, because I was in the same exact situation Zimmerman was in, last December.  Last December I was an idiot and wanted to have a bit of fun and threw a party out in the woods in the, let's say, not nice part of town.  I walked up the street with a few friends, we were honestly all high as ****.  One of my friends asked this black guy on a bicycle if he wanted some marijuana and my friend said, "Too bad because we don't have any".  Then literally five minutes later, I happen to look behind myself and I see about 15 men chasing after us.  They knocked my friend out with one punch, I ran as soon as I saw it happen, and then I stopped running and I was kicked down to the ground.  I was getting attacked.  Did I feel like I was going to die? Sure, but I was just hoping for the best.  I honestly didn't fight back because I was stoned off of my mind and I did not feel any pain when the person was hitting me, kicking me in the head.  I just sat there acting like I felt nothing and the attacker finally gave up and asked what was in my pockets, I replied, "Nothing".  My wallet and my phone were both in my pockets.  I blocked my pockets with my hands and then he ran off.  I then got up off the ground and walked off like nothing happened.  I told absolutely nobody about this, except a few close friends.  My point is, Zimmerman could have done the exact same thing I did, I survived.


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## jarland (Jul 15, 2013)

How many of you guys were there? If you feel the judge or jury made a mistake, become a judge or sit on more juries. If you think the cops made the mistake, become a cop. If you think Florida laws are to blame, go run for an office in Florida.

This was a local case with local people and it was processed through our judicial system as the citizens of the state of Florida have previously found acceptable. If they no longer find it acceptable, they now hold the responsibility to elect different local leadership and lobby for new state legislation.

There is a process, none of which involves sitting in a chair typing on a web forum. Everyone wants a voice, no one wants to get off their ass and work.


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## texteditor (Jul 15, 2013)

Zach said:


> If he allowed him to continually beat him, he could have very easily been killed.


Well his injuries weren't hospital-worthy (he was asked 3x if he wanted an evaluation on the scene) and he had less blood on him than an average dry weather bloody nose, so it overwheleming seems like he got socked once square in the face, slipped and fell and got pissed and shot Trayvon

If he was actually "continually beaten" he would have looked much, much worse - head injuries bleed like crazy


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## texteditor (Jul 15, 2013)

MannDude said:


> People keep calling it a 'race crime', thinking Zimmerman killed the teen because he was black. Zimmerman has a black step-sister, has a black ex-girlfriend, and even spoke out against a white-cop who beat a black homeless man. The guy isn't a racist, at least according to his track-record.



1) This is called the "my black friend" defense against racism, and it is meaningless

2) The real big issue of racism here was that the Detective who interviewed him that night wanted him to be charged, but between Miami-Dade PD's history of racism and the fact that George was well known to the cops, they assumed his story to be true and told the detective they weren't charging him


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## texteditor (Jul 15, 2013)

MannDude said:


> forget the fact that Trayvon was a 'thug' (history of violence and fighting, being kicked out of school for drugs, attempting to purchase a firearm illegally, etc) and lets plaster photos of him on the TV of when he was 12 so he looks more innocent and angelic.



PS MannDude this is terribly racist - a 'thug'? He never had a history of violence and fighting (that was Zimmerman), he smoked weed and mentioned doing like DXM (literally most of my ~mostly white~ high school did both of those and much more) and that picture of the gun wasn't any kind of proof he intended to buy a firearm

He looked innocent and angelic in nearly all his pictures, even the older ones, unless you are terrified of black people.

edit: I want you to go do an experiment for me - go out and buy some weed and smoke and bunch of it. Come back here after and tell us whether you get filled with Immense Negro Rage and beat up the first white man you run into, or if you sit at your computer and stream every episode of Tim and Eric's Awesome Show without taking a break


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2013)

texteditor said:


> 1) This is called the "my black friend" defense against racism, and it is meaningless
> 
> 2) The real big issue of racism here was that the Detective who interviewed him that night wanted him to be charged, but between Miami-Dade PD's history of racism and the fact that George was well known to the cops, they assumed his story to be true and told the detective they weren't charging him


1.) If it makes any amount of difference, the FBI investigation relating to this had the outcome of Zimmerman not being racist. Unsure how many racists have been outspoken against white-on-black crime in the past, as well as having also dated a black woman. I was going to use my 'black friends' defense in my follow up to your other quote but I can't do that now.  I believe if it was me walking through that neighborhood that rainy evening with my hood up, Zimmerman would have likely kept an eye on me too. Though the difference is, I would have kept walking and not have attacked him.

2.) The cop was actually fired.



texteditor said:


> PS MannDude this is terribly racist - a 'thug'? He never had a history of violence and fighting (that was Zimmerman), he smoked weed and mentioned doing like DXM (literally most of my ~mostly white~ high school did both of those and much more) and that picture of the gun wasn't any kind of proof he intended to buy a firearm
> 
> He looked innocent and angelic in nearly all his pictures, even the older ones, unless you are terrified of black people.
> 
> edit: I want you to go do an experiment for me - go out and buy some weed and smoke and bunch of it. Come back here after and tell us whether you get filled with Immense Negro Rage and beat up the first white man you run into, or if you sit at your computer and stream every episode of Tim and Eric's Awesome Show without taking a break


I didn't know how else to word it. The recent photos on his Facebook and Twitter were not the same angelic photos used by the media. In an effort to stir up more drama they plastered the photos of a smiling young child and not the young man he had become. Trayvon *DID* have a history of violence. He was kicked out of school for fighting. Even his *TEXT MESSAGE RECORDS* indicate his history for violence. In one event read during the trial (but not before the jury) Trayvon was txting his lady stating he fought some dude, lost the first round, but won the other 2 rounds. He said he was going back for more because his nose didn't bleed enough. His text message records also indicate an attempt to purchase a firearm, illegally. Don't take my word for it, you can view the record here: http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Trayvon-Martin-cell-phone-extraction-report-one-10-pages.pdf (The list doesn't include the texts that were hidden from some app on his phone, forget what it was called, but the individual in charge of examining phones as evidence spoke about the hidden media and texts during the trial)



> He looked innocent and angelic in nearly all his pictures, even the older ones, unless you are terrified of black people.


This is when I was going to use my black friend defense, and I cant use it as per your response above, so not sure how to address it, haha. Look, the media really wanted to stir this up to make it seem some little kid was shot in cold blood. The fact is, it was a young man who was in great shape and a history of violence himself.



> edit: I want you to go do an experiment for me - go out and buy some weed and smoke and bunch of it. Come back here after and tell us whether you get filled with Immense Negro Rage and beat up the first white man you run into, or if you sit at your computer and stream every episode of Tim and Eric's Awesome Show without taking a break


I'm no stranger to weed, having been a High School student and young adult myself, and I don't think his marijuana use was anything more than that of what High School teens do. Tim and Eric aren't my cup of tea, but give me Trailer Park Boys and I'll sit here all night. I think the drug use that was more worrying was the 'lean', or whatever. Look up his posts he made on Facebook and Twitter prior to all of this. He asks a friend where to get codeine. No the pill form, but liquid form. Skittles+Watermelon Fruit Drink+Liquid Codeine is the _speculation_ of what was going on that night, based on his social media history.

I know this makes me look like an asshole for bringing up the stuff the media isn't telling you, but the truth isn't always as interesting to the masses.

Zimmerman is suing NBC for editing the audio aired on TV of his 911 call that alone made him seem racist, which he'll probably need all the money he can get after Martin's sue him (even though TM's mom is trademarking the name, 'Trayvon').

It's an unfortunate event, but not really all that news worthy when you consider on any given night there are people being killed in Chicago and any other major US city. This one was just unique because it was a 'white man' killing a 'black boy' instead of the usual white man killing white man or black man killing black man story. Trayvon was in much better shape and experienced in recreational fighting. Zimmerman was out of shape, and I believe he was truly fearing for his life. The type of individual who would attack someone just for eyeing them down is the same type of un-adjusted individual who would be capable of something much worse. When would Trayvon had stopped attacking Zimmerman had he not been shot? When he got wore out? When Zimmerman stopped moving or was knocked unconscious? You can be put in a coma or die from the head injuries he suffered. It's unfortunate, but he did what he had to do after he was attacked.


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## jarland (Jul 15, 2013)

Eh screw it. Removing post. Almost forgot how little I care. I don't live in Florida. People too busy caring about the laws other states enact, they should take part in their own state politics.


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2013)

jarland said:


> I wasn't there and I'm not going to pretend to know what happened. Even those watching the court case don't know what happened. It wasn't all made public. Some evidence wasn't released for the public to go over. No one who considers themselves to be an intellectual can claim knowledge of what happened. An opinion about it is a bit irresponsible, but the best anyone can have.


True, true. When I first heard about the story, I was upset too. I thought what many people thought that Zimmerman had committed a race-crime and hunted down a suspicious looking teen. It wasn't until I actually read up on it and watched some of the trial and looked at the evidence that _was_ released before I began to feel the way I do now.


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## Nick_A (Jul 15, 2013)

Was going to comment on Zimmerman's affinity for African Americans, but MannDude beat me to it. Racists don't take black girls to prom and mentor minority children on the weekends. He could still be a scumbag, but there is nothing to suggest he's a racist scumbag.

MannDude also pointed out that Trayvon had a history of disciplinary issues at school. He was only in Sanford because he was suspended from his high school in Miami. Suddenly because of a clear political agenda, the misguided (at best) young man becomes a symbol for racial oppression.


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> Was going to comment on Zimmerman's affinity for African Americans, but MannDude beat me to it. Racists don't take black girls to prom and mentor minority children on the weekends. He could still be a scumbag, but there is nothing to suggest he's a racist scumbag.
> 
> MannDude also pointed out that Trayvon had a history of disciplinary issues at school. He was only in Sanford because he was suspended from his high school in Miami. Suddenly because of a clear political agenda, the misguided (at best) young man becomes a symbol for racial oppression.


It's the administrations attempt at furthering their gun-control agenda. The school shootings didn't work because these were crazy and fucked up individuals to begin with according to the media. What they needed was a law abiding citizen committing some sort of atrocity with his legally purchased weapon that he had a permit to carry legally, as that was not an anti-gun image that's been plastered over the TV yet.


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## texteditor (Jul 15, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> MannDude also pointed out that Trayvon had a history of disciplinary issues at school. He was only in Sanford because he was suspended from his high school in Miami. Suddenly because of a clear political agenda, the misguided (at best) young man becomes a symbol for racial oppression.


Having disciplinary trouble in school does not make him somehow more likely to randomly attack someone - certainly not compared to Zimmerman, who has an arrest record that includes assaulting a police officer trying to arrest his friend for drinking underage and having restraining orders against him for domestic violence.


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## ChrisM (Jul 16, 2013)

texteditor said:


> Having disciplinary trouble in school does not make him somehow more likely to randomly attack someone


Hahahahahahahahaha you're joking right?


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## Nick_A (Jul 16, 2013)

Like I said - Zimmerman may be a scumbag. But it's not just that Trayvon had disciplinary issues at school - they were apparently related to his violent behavior there. So yes, that does make him more likely to randomly attack someone, whereas a less violent young man would probably just run away from the "creepy" neighborhood watch guy.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I'm no stranger to weed, having been a High School student and young adult myself, and I don't think his marijuana use was anything more than that of what High School teens do. Tim and Eric aren't my cup of tea, but give me Trailer Park Boys and I'll sit here all night. I think the drug use that was more worrying was the 'lean', or whatever. Look up his posts he made on Facebook and Twitter prior to all of this. He asks a friend where to get codeine. No the pill form, but liquid form. Skittles+Watermelon Fruit Drink+Liquid Codeine is the _speculation_ of what was going on that night, based on his social media history.
> 
> It's an unfortunate event, but not really all that news worthy when you consider on any given night there are people being killed in Chicago and any other major US city. This one was just unique because it was a 'white man' killing a 'black boy' instead of the usual white man killing white man or black man killing black man story. Trayvon was in much better shape and experienced in recreational fighting. Zimmerman was out of shape, and I believe he was truly fearing for his life. The type of individual who would attack someone just for eyeing them down is the same type of un-adjusted individual who would be capable of something much worse. When would Trayvon had stopped attacking Zimmerman had he not been shot? When he got wore out? When Zimmerman stopped moving or was knocked unconscious? You can be put in a coma or die from the head injuries he suffered. It's unfortunate, but he did what he had to do after he was attacked.


I've seen that Facebook post, and Trayvon is such a hardened experienced drug user that he thinks DXM and codeine are the same thing, when anyone who has actually tried both could tell you they aren't similar at all. I've had enough codeine in my life to tell you that it just makes you sleepy and not a 'thug' in any way, and I've watched friends and fraternity brothers chug through a ton of cough syrup for what is a shitty buzz that makes music sound better followed by a headache at best.

Also, look up the pictures of when Zimmerman was arrested - he wasn't out of shape - he ballooned up 120 by the time the trial came around, but he was in pretty good shape when the incident went down. He lost that weight (before the night of the shooting) by training in MMA at a local gym, Kokopelli's in Longwood FL, for some time.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

MannDude said:


> It's the administrations attempt at furthering their gun-control agenda. The school shootings didn't work because these were crazy and fucked up individuals to begin with according to the media. What they needed was a law abiding citizen committing some sort of atrocity with his legally purchased weapon that he had a permit to carry legally, as that was not an anti-gun image that's been plastered over the TV yet.


Gun control was never the social issue at the core of this though, it was overzealous self-defense laws and the way police never bothered to look into the shooting of a black boy until people made noise.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> Like I said - Zimmerman may be a scumbag. But it's not just that Trayvon had disciplinary issues at school - they were apparently related to his violent behavior there. So yes, that does make him more likely to randomly attack someone, whereas a less violent young man would probably just run away from the "creepy" neighborhood watch guy.


I've seen reports his disciplinary problems were for truancy, graffiti, and drug use - is there a link to this supposed violent behavior? Because you can look up Zimmerman's name on the Miami-Dade court record website to get hard evidence of his violent past.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> Like I said - Zimmerman may be a scumbag. But it's not just that Trayvon had disciplinary issues at school - they were apparently related to his violent behavior there. So yes, that does make him more likely to randomly attack someone, whereas a less violent young man would probably just run away from the "creepy" neighborhood watch guy.


I agree, but I can also understand how a young black kid being followed by a creepy man who, in the dark, probably did not look unlike a skinhead, may not want to lead him back to where his little brother was.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

Looks like someone is already cashing in....

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-juror-in-zimmerman-case-signs-book-deal?ref=fpb


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## MannDude (Jul 16, 2013)

texteditor said:


> Looks like someone is already cashing in....
> 
> http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-juror-in-zimmerman-case-signs-book-deal?ref=fpb


March 28, *2012: *http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/justice/florida-teen-shooting-trademarks Trademarking Trayvon's name.

Will touch base on the other comments after work.


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## texteditor (Jul 16, 2013)

MannDude said:


> March 28, *2012: *http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/justice/florida-teen-shooting-trademarks Trademarking Trayvon's name.
> 
> Will touch base on the other comments after work.


The only way to keep people from profiting off her son's death (like that asshole who made the hoodied character with skittles & tea gun range targets).

It's not like she's currently making millions selling Trayvon T-shirts or something, they are setting up a foundation in his honor.

Completely different situations

"There are so many people out there doing things with Trayvon's name and some inappropriate people, so without that trademark they did not have the right to tell them to cease and desist."


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## jcaleb (Jul 16, 2013)

based on reading, it seems there is no case to begin with.  seems there is no probable cause and should have not reached the court


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## Naruto (Jul 16, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> Like I said - Zimmerman may be a scumbag. But it's not just that Trayvon had disciplinary issues at school - they were apparently related to his violent behavior there. So yes, that does make him more likely to randomly attack someone, whereas a less violent young man would probably just run away from the "creepy" neighborhood watch guy.


Traitor.


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## vRozenSch00n (Jul 17, 2013)

http://www.davidduke.com/?p=40393


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## nunim (Jul 17, 2013)

As a proud Floridian, I can safely say that I'm glad he walked, I was reasonably sure that he was going to but it's nice to know that not all people are so easily influenced by mass media.





jcaleb said:


> based on reading, it seems there is no case to begin with.  seems there is no probable cause and should have not reached the court


Indeed, they didn't arrest and charge him with a crime until after substantial public(media) pressure. 





MannDude said:


> Zimmerman is suing NBC for editing the audio aired on TV of his 911 call that alone made him seem racist, which he'll probably need all the money he can get after Martin's sue him (even though TM's mom is trademarking the name, 'Trayvon').


Good, if I was him I would be talking to the ACLU or Southern Poverty Law Center about suing NBC for 100 million dollars since he will have some trouble finding decent employment after this fiasco. 



texteditor said:


> Here's the thing: you really shouldn't be able to kill someone with a firearm and not get a default 'manslaughter' until you prove you were actually acting in self defense.


I don't think you understand how the justice system works in the United States of America, here we are entitled to the "Presumption of innocence", you do not have to prove your innocence, in criminal cases they must prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If this doesn't suit you then either move to Iran or become a Supreme Court Justice and set a new precedent.  Do you think soldier's should be tried for killing enemies during combat?





texteditor said:


> I agree, but I can also understand how a young black kid being followed by a creepy man who, in the dark, probably did not look unlike a skinhead, may not want to lead him back to where his little brother was.


He was not a "little black kid", he was an almost fully grown teenager. Although I live in South Florida, which really isn't part of the "South" like Central FL, I have traveled extensively in Florida as well as around the country yet in my travels I don't think I've seen an identifiable skinhead anywhere in the past 5 years. Are skinheads still around in significant numbers? I've never heard any of my non-caucasian friends talking about being fearful of skinheads, I would think that one is more likely to be struck by a bus while crossing the street. 

 It's sad that being judged non-guilty by a jury of your peers in insufficient to quell those who think they know everything. When OJ Simpson got off the hook Caucasian's did not riot in the streets, despite the overwhelming evidence of his guilt.

Had both Zimmerman and Martin made better choices that night, Martin would be alive and Zimmerman's life would not have been ruined by the resulting media circus. Unfortunately hindsight is always 20/20 and *none of us can say for certain what we would have done in his place. *


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## ChrisM (Jul 18, 2013)

texteditor said:


> It's not like she's currently making millions selling Trayvon T-shirts or something, they are setting up a foundation in his honor.


Doesn't matter she should not be allowed to profit off her son's criminal behavior which resulted in his death due to his own actions.


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## jcaleb (Jul 18, 2013)

nunim said:


> Indeed, they didn't arrest and charge him with a crime until after substantial public(media) pressure.


I think the prosecutor should be sued


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## Magiobiwan (Jul 19, 2013)

Just wait until the (in my opinion) inevitable Civil Suit. That will likely turn out MUCH different.


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