# The 2016 (USA) Presidential Election Thread



## MannDude

You've got another Clinton, another Bush, and folks like Ted Cruz, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Gary Johnson, etc in the running. This thread is being created for general political discussion since most American media is already plagued with election news as the candidates campaign.

I'll be the first to say that I don't hate Trump and that Sanders scares me, but not as scary as Hillary. Haven't read too much into the others. I do like Johnson though but he'll never win.

"If you're not liberal when you are young, then you have no heart. If you are not conservative when you are older, then you have no brain."

You triggered yet?

Go.


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## HalfEatenPie

Reddit's love for Bernie Sanders actually makes me dislike him.  

I bet he has good policies and means well, but holy cow does Reddit try to just cram it down your throat.  

My vote is for Mickey Mouse.  

Obligatory 30 Rock Scene



(Honestly though, I'm actually a Democrat that just happens to agree with some Republican ideas).


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## drmike

Damn it, politics again 

Who the hell is running?  Clintonistas are running?  We had 8 years of Hillary running the show and she's been in Oh-bama Whouse a chunk of his term... Meh...  Can be all agree to never have a Clinton or a Bush as president again, please?

Sanders is interesting... the guy at least attempts to think. Trump isn't running... The alien on his head is running.  Trump is just nuts and has a history of bending rules, bad pay, etc.

Gary Johnson is great.  I probably best resonate with him.

Still waiting for viable 3rd party candidate or a Republican who isn't laughing stock.

There are how many people running now? 300+?

Frankly, I think we should imprison anyone that intentionally runs for office and aspires to rule over others.   Leaders should be selected unwillingly from the public at large.  Yeah I know unrealistic, but we have 4 years to do it for the presidency and certainly can do better than the fools that keep getting elected... That applies to Democons and Replicons equally.


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## MartinD

If Trump gets anywhere near the Whitehouse the world really is well and truly fucked.


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## rds100

Does it really matter who the president is? Isn't he or she just a frontend for the masses and media? I don't think the real decisions are left to him.


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## DomainBop

rds100 said:


> Does it really matter who the president is? Isn't he or she just a frontend for the masses and media? I don't think the real decisions are left to him.


The President and Congress are both frontends for the wishes of lobbyists and large campaign donors _(2016 campaign spending for the presidential election is expected to top $5 billion._)  Republicans and Democrats have different marketing gimmicks during campaign season but once elected they serve the same masters, and those masters aren't the average citizen.

The most accurate term to describe the current US federal government (President and Congress) is "plutocracy".


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## Bruce

reviving the old Lewinksy gags ... will Bill splash out on a new dress for Hilary in the election campaign ?

how can either party, or the country as a whole, be taken seriously when the lack of gun laws results in kids being killed. being on-topic, no presidential candidate will promote anti-gun laws. obama effectively admitted he gave up on the idea recently (can't find a quote for it). it's a shame, as more kids will be killed due to this inaction (accidents, high school massacres, etc)


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## clarity

For me, I don't particularly care who the president is. They are a figurehead for our government. They do have some power, but it isn't anything that really scares me.

The real change comes when the President, House, and Senate are all controlled by one party. This happens very rarely, but when it does they get a ton of stuff done that wouldn't happen any other way. Whether you are for it or against it, those situations are the ones that scare me the most. You have an entire country being run by lobbyists and corrupt politicians that don't have the true interest of the people that elected them in mind. The only good thing is that it happens for both parties, and they are able to correct the things that the other party messed up.

As for the people running this time, _it is another stellar candidate pool_. I thought that Ted Cruz had a real shot, but he is way too far to the right for the masses. He needs to re-center himself to have a chance at the presidency. I thought that he would have done what Obama did during his time as senator. Instead, Cruz has gotten really involved and said a lot of things that just don't sit well. Obama didn't really say anything or do anything during his time in the Senate. Cruz could have learned from that.


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## KuJoe

At least they let us know up front our votes don't count, but you get a sticker if you take the time to vote in an election where your votes are counted but don't mean much.


Electoral College FTW!


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## HN-Matt

drmike said:


> That applies to Democons and Replicons equally.


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## ChrisM

Honestly anyone but Hillary would be a relief from the joke we have in there now.

I am leaning toward Donald Trump or Scott Walker, Ted Cruz also looks interesting.


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## Licensecart

Rand Paul sounds like he would be good for the USA.


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## ChrisM

Licensecart said:


> Rand Paul sounds like he would be good for the USA.


Honestly I don't know what happened to him. He was pretty active at first, but recently he has been pretty quite.


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## raidz

Rand Paul is our best shot imo


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## Licensecart

Chris Miller said:


> Honestly I don't know what happened to him. He was pretty active at first, but recently he has been pretty quite.


true hopefully he can get his voice out more, but he seems to be the only one who puts the USA people first.


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## drmike

HN-Matt said:


>


Politics doesn't have anything to do with rainbows.

I am sure a lot of folks who have used the rainbow feel that the gay folks have stolen it.   I know adults that get concerned about their children drawing rainbows because of the whole gay bend to it.

Unsure why the Democratic rainbow has so much green in it and disproportionate amount of black...  If it's to indicate race division, it's all f'd up and not to scale.  Likewise the Republican rainbow is represented as  thin band of white.   With half of the electorate identifying as Republican and with them not being all white, it's not correct and not to scale.

I have yet to meet any green people unless they are lobbyists or that liberal marijuana tax and grow group.


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## HN-Matt

drmike said:


> Politics doesn't have anything to do with rainbows.


That is true, but satire does. 



drmike said:


> Unsure why the Democratic rainbow has so much green in it and disproportionate amount of black...


I'm not sure how it looks on your screen, but on mine it seems to have more black in it than any other colour!



drmike said:


> If it's to indicate race division, it's all f'd up and not to scale.  Likewise the Republican rainbow is represented as  thin band of white.   With half of the electorate identifying as Republican and with them not being all white, it's not correct and not to scale.


Hrm, very true. I will write to the satirist and advise him to add more correctness and scale to the next cartoon.


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## MannDude

Can't stump the Trump.

Love him or hate him, this guy is gaining a lot of support. I'm not sure if he'll actually win the Republican bid or not but he's a hoot.


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## ChrisM




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## Nick_A

@Bruce - That's extreme over-simplifying...

On topic: I'll be interested to watch the debate on Thursday. We'll see if Rand regains any ground lost to Trump. I think one of the talk show hosts I listen to rightly pointed out that the recent troubles for Rand stem from the fact that Trump basically stole his role. Rand was supposed to be the guy saying and doing things differently than the rest of the field. It's hard to compete with Trump in that area. He's also reportedly having trouble raising funds on the same level as some of his fellow candidates due to an unwillingness to suck up to donors.

It's interesting that Trump is leading both the "who would you vote for?" and "who would you never vote for?" polls of Republican primary voters. Would make for an interesting showdown with Hillary, assuming she gets nominated. Would registered Republicans sit home again and let another Democrat win if Trump was their nominee? Tons of them stayed home in 2012...

Still can't believe Jeb is polling so well despite his last name and outright scorn for a big part of the base. There's probably quite a few theories out there about that one. Is name recognition just doing the trick for him?

Walker is no surprise given the ringing non-endorsement endorsements Rush Limbaugh gave him several months back. He also has a track record of doing what he says he'll do, which is rare for the GOP these days...

Lastly, I'll be interested to see if Ben Carson holds his own in a debate format.

Fun fact: I sat across the aisle from Mike Huckabee on a plane from NYC to ATL last year. Probably won't vote for him though D:


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## ChrisM

http://nypost.com/2015/08/05/fbi-investigation-of-hillarys-emails-is-criminal-probe/ #HillaryForPrison2016!


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## Coastercraze

Run from prison - just like Jim Trafficant did for his congress seat.

Sadly, no real good candidates atm. I'd rather take Trump over another Bush or Clinton.


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## Nick_A

Anyone watching the debate(s)?


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## MannDude

> Anyone watching the debate(s)?



Yes sir. I am right now.


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## drmike

Coastercraze said:


> Run from prison - just like Jim Trafficant did for his congress seat.
> 
> Sadly, no real good candidates atm. I'd rather take Trump over another Bush or Clinton.



I still like Rand Paul.  

John Kasich isn't too bad either.  He'd pull swing states of Ohio and Pennsylvania which are needed for a Republican win.


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## ChrisM

Nick_A said:


> Anyone watching the debate(s)?



Unfortunately I had to miss the debate tonight.. Was working on a security camera system for a business. 

I will be catching up on the on the reviews and clips in a moment!


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## ChrisM

Full Debate available here: https://youtu.be/0VjHw1m_Orw

Edit: Or Not.. Was the secondary debate


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## MannDude

I got bored and made some Bernie Sanders propaganda images... but I used old man Abe Simpson quotes on them... haha.







Please feel free to share...


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## MannDude

Well, it looks like Bernie is picking up some steam even though the media is still somehow trying to promote Hillarly. Trump today pledged to stick with the GOP and not go 3rd party if he doesn't get their nod and Ben Carson did pretty well in Iowa's polls (tied Trump).

Still a long ways away but it's been interesting watching this all unfold.

Are there any democrats other than Hillary and Bernie that has any real chance? Personally, both of them scare me, but hey. Seems like on the republican side of things the attention has been focused now on the Donald, Rand Paul and Ben Carson. Jeb Bush has made some media coverage but I think he's about to fizzle out of the picture soon.


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> Are there any democrats other than Hillary and Bernie that has any real chance?



I sure hope not.

Donald Trump is the way to go in my opinion, I've been following him every step of the way since he announced he was running.


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## Kalam

http://feelthebern.org/ does a good job of listing all the issues.

@MannDude why does Bernie scare you?


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## ChrisM

Kalam said:


> @MannDude why does Bernie scare you?



His Socialist agenda and assumption that everyone deserves a "Free Ride". 

Is enough for me to not even consider him


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## MannDude

> @MannDude why does Bernie scare you?



Just doesn't align with most my views is all. I'm not against everything he's done of course, and he is a _much better_ and more honest candidate than Hillary, but at this point in my life I am leaning more to the right than to the left.

I don't agree with everything the republicans have to offer either, but I agree with them on more points.


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## Kalam

> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MannDude why does Bernie scare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His Socialist agenda and assumption that everyone deserves a "Free Ride".
> 
> Is enough for me to not even consider him
Click to expand...

Yes, the socialist agenda of strong labor rights, progressive taxation, social goods such as childcare, healthcare, and higher education.

Please expand on this "Free Ride." Are you referring to universal healthcare? A living wage? Free higher education? Public funding of elections?



> @MannDude why does Bernie scare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just doesn't align with most my views is all. I'm not against everything he's done of course, and he is a _much better_ and more honest candidate than Hillary, but at this point in my life I am leaning more to the right than to the left.
> 
> I don't agree with everything the republicans have to offer either, but I agree with them on more points.
Click to expand...

Fair enough @MannDude. For me personally, I can't support candidates that continue to refuse to acknowledge climate change, still push trickle down economics, disregard women's reproductive rights, and (I'm looking specifically at Huckabee here with his latest tweets) want a Christian theocracy.


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## ChrisM

Kalam said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MannDude why does Bernie scare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His Socialist agenda and assumption that everyone deserves a "Free Ride".
> 
> Is enough for me to not even consider him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please expand on this "Free Ride." Are you referring to universal healthcare? A living wage? Free higher education? Public funding of elections?
Click to expand...

All of the above. The "Living wage" is nothing but a joke to raise the cost to consumers and to hurt the corporations of this country. Fast food workers don't deserve the $8/hr they receive now let alone $15/hr for the little effort they put in.

"Free Higher Education" that is even a bigger joke then anything. If you don't put in the effort to earn your way you definitely will not put in the effort for a job.


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## MannDude

Minimum wage I think is fine where it is. If you live in an expensive city like San Francisco I can understand the want to want a higher pay, which is why cities like that offer such things.

On my 18th birthday I moved out of my parent's house and into my own. I was working at a Ponderosa Steakhouse. I walked to work every morning about 2 or 3 miles through the woods to get from downtown to the 'hilltop' business district where the steakhouse was located. I think minimum wage then was $6.25 or something. I rented a _house_ (small, not nice, but a house with a yard) and shared it with a friend.

In fact, I don't think my mother even makes $15/hr and she's had the same factory job for over 30 years now. I do know that at 25 years she was at $12.xx/hr, because I worked in the same factory as a temp-worker for a 90 day contract job and made more than her and most the people working there because the factory paid half my wage and the state of Indiana the rest. As a single parent and sole income provider of a household she was able to raise myself and my sisters without any direct government assistance. I certainly didn't have a privileged childhood at all and saw the struggle first hand. I think seeing her work hard contributed to my work ethic today. It's not fair that or right that a 15 year old working an afterschool job doing whatever should earn the same as someone like my mother who has over 30 years in at the same factory. When you raise the minimum wage, you're not offsetting the pay of workers who already earn more than that, you're just creating more people working for the minimum wage. You're just creating a larger lower class.

I never went to college. Why? Because I wanted to avoid debt. In High School I knew what I wanted to do and entering adulthood with massive college debt wasn't part of my plans. I wasn't a good enough student to get scholarships, wasn't a minority so couldn't get hand outs or take advantage of affirmative action, wasn't from a privileged background so couldn't pass the bill onto my parents and didn't want the debt for myself when I could just enter the work force and start living life. Living cheaply and within your means you can get by with ease, it's only when people start to try to 'keep up with the Joneses' that they fall behind.

This is just my experience though and opinion though. I've never been lucky enough to earn anything more than a mediocre wage but I've lived within my means and have lived pretty alright I think. I can't complain really. I've got a car that is paid for in full. It's not nice, but it runs, and I didn't go in debt over it. I have a nice little historic house with a yard that has cheap rent in a nice, safe, and historic small US town. I do not have any debt owed to any financial institutions. I am paying off a property purchase out of state and will soon be the official owner of beautiful 20 acres where I plan on building a home eventually. I also don't have and probably do not want children, at least not yet since I'm still shy of 30, so no additional cost there.

Unless you're going to college for a career that specifically requires a degree (Doctor, lawyer, etc) then I don't see the problem with just learning what you want to do by yourself, going to a trade school to learn a valuable and needed skilled trade or just doing whatever. I have no sympathy for someone who has $80,000 worth of college debt because they went to some expensive school and majored in things like Fine Arts, Liberal Arts, Philosophy, Graphic Design, Women's Studies, etc. Some of those are just interesting things to learn about, others are things you can learn yourself or can take much more affordable and practical specific courses in that doesn't require you to have a ton of other stupid filler classes to pass to get a degree.

Anyhow, I would like to see healthcare more affordable though. I'm a bit liberal in that regards since I've not had health, dental, or vision insurance for almost ten years. Medical costs in this country are insane. No one should go into debt or have to go bankrupt due to a medical emergency.


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## MannDude

So @KnownHost-ChrisM, care to share where you went today?


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## ChrisM

MannDude said:


> So @KnownHost-ChrisM, care to share where you went today?



Donald Trump Rally! For the sake of staying out of politics with a company tag I won't go into details but yes I will say he is even more awesome in person!


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## Licensecart

America is better off with Obama than Trump lol


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## MannDude

Licensecart said:


> America is better off with Obama than Trump lol



Well, he's going to be booted out of office in 2017 regardless of who replaces him. I lean more to the right on most things but can't say for certain I support anyone entirely just yet. I'll go vote when it's time to vote and as per usually it'll be for the lesser of the two evils. I like some of Trump's platform, and other parts of it I dislike. Same goes for other candidates. Some have some good stuff to say, some aspects I disagree with entirely.


I really wish 3rd party candidates got more coverage and limelight so they had a fighting chance. Would be nice to shake things up a bit.


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> Anyhow, I would like to see healthcare more affordable though. I'm a bit liberal in that regards since I've not had health, dental, or vision insurance for almost ten years. Medical costs in this country are insane. No one should go into debt or have to go bankrupt due to a medical emergency.



May I enlighten you with this good option for healthcare and others should take note... This group and there are a few others do a Christian based approach.


Simply:  You pay fixed amount, so do others in the pool.  That pool pays the bills people rack up on healthcare.  


Rates are relatively low.  Haven't looked recently, but probably $150~ for a single young man.  Plans are Bronze $45, Silver $85, Gold $150.. and they have some additional annual catastrophic illness buy in.  The coverage meets the federal NAZI mandatory IRS bullied mandate garbage.


http://www.chministries.org/


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## MannDude

I've got great health, dental, vision and life insurance now. I don't work in the hosting industry more and got a real job with actual benefits like a retirement account and even a health savings account that my employer puts in $1,000/yr to cover the out of pocket cost for things my insurance doesn't cover in full.


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> I've got great health, dental, vision and life insurance now. I don't work in the hosting industry more and got a real job with actual benefits like a retirement account and even a health savings account that my employer puts in $1,000/yr to cover the out of pocket cost for things my insurance doesn't cover in full.



Yeah but you don't get a free VPS there   


... and you have to shower, put on clothes (can't work outside in your underwear), drive, etc.


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## River

KnownHost-ChrisM said:


> Donald Trump Rally! For the sake of staying out of politics with a company tag I won't go into details but yes I will say he is even more awesome in person!



That's awesome. I went to a Trump Rally about 30 minutes away here in NH and I couldn't get very close, although I did get 4th row seats.


I'm not really a fan of Trump though. I like him a lot better than Hillary and Bernie - Bernie is just too extreme and with no way to pay for his ideas they won't work and we'll be plunged into more debt (with my generation covering the tab!). Hillary is just a liar.


I've been a fan of John Kasich, I agree with him on the fiscal stuff and the social stuff he's decent on (recently making dumb comments but still better than a lot of them). Marco Rubio is good too, I'm putting bets on him getting the nomination with the GOP not really supporting Trump much.


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## drmike

Sanders is alright for the 20-something idealistic set (the age when you have a bleeding heart - after that your heart gels and brain starts reasoning).  Sanders conceptually isn't too bad until he lines up entitlements.


Entitlements have to go for everyone I think.  Take them away from farmers, make the city folks pay more for food and in process will rid the aisles of stores from GMO frankenfoods.  Spend more = demand more quality.


Hillary is a Clinton and well, as good as times were under Bill's reign of terror, that's where the country got NAFTA'd and other trade shit that shipped crap abroad and enable behemoth buddies like Walmart (which has paid sHillary handily in the past).  We don't need another Bush or a Clintonista in the Whitehouse.


Trump is interesting reality TV. It's a circus and I enjoy that.   Lately it has been bouncing idiots out of the convention halls midspeech.   I want to see someone bumrush the stage and try cuckolding Trump.  He has Secret Service detail, he has own private security.   Someone is going face down to the floor in a violent ballet meets Kung Fu move.


What is neat about Trump, is that he is attracting this demographic of people that is more blue collar, more independent spirit, less entrenched moo-cow I vote the ticket Republi-con line voter.  Meaning he's bringing more voters to the party.  That's mandatory if the Republicans intend on winning at presidential vote ever again.  Means crossing the line and grabbing votes from non white voters, taking disgruntled Democrat voters over.  Independents also are more leaning towards Trump than anyone else I'd say, although Sanders will appeal to some.


Kasich is a good guy.  However, his time working on Wall Street is a bad story.  He couldn't manage anything related to that (Lehman Brothers was it?) during the last debate and he talked all over himself and damaged himself.  Trump is trouncing Kasich in his own state of Ohio where Kasich is governor.  Kasich will drop out very soon - two months tops I give him and only since we have this holiday lull without debates.


Actually enjoying the competition so far...  Waiting until parties pick who is paired to run though.... Democrats are way too thin on the field and Bernie isn't even a Democrat.. unsure WTF he's doing in the big D debates.


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## HN-Matt

#TrumpCuck2016


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## HN-Matt

I'm nobody's nationalist and don't really care about elections (I don't vote), but was reading a transcript of Vladimir Putin's speech at the final plenary meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club's XI session in Sochi on 24 October 2014, and thought this was a pretty remarkable thing for a politician to say:



> We have entered a period of differing interpretations and deliberate silences in world politics. International law has been forced to retreat over and over by the onslaught of legal nihilism. Objectivity and justice have been sacrificed on the altar of political expediency. Arbitrary interpretations and biased assessments have replaced legal norms. At the same time, total control of the global mass media has made it possible when desired to portray white as black and black as white.
> 
> 
> In a situation where you had domination by one country and its allies, or its satellites rather,



...in particular, to contextualize domination and control in terms of 'satellites'. I'm not sure I've ever heard a 'Western' politician approach the subject in such a way before. Maybe Mr. Trump will be the first.


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## RosenHost

As a non-US, I believe Obama is/was a great president for United States. Especially after two George W. Bush presidency terms.


Obama has been a progressive soft power leader. He managed to get US army out of IRAQ and Afghanistan (mostly). He did well against Putin, Russia and China. Many US patriots might think that, US lost control in Middle East and Far East Asia during his presidency. I do not believe that. With his financial measures, Russia is not as strong as it should be and China's economic miracle is already about to come to an end. What US should do is to keep together a strong economy, create jobs, produce in country and move towards a wellfare state. The capitalist is just too reckless in there I believe. Obama was a good guy to keep the balance, as far as I can see. So much debth in that economy of US. It should be fixed somehow.


I see the candidates. Trump sounds like a joke. I do not know much about Sanders but I hope Hillary gets the presidential seat and good old Willy can rule the USA once again, as her shadow.


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## AuroraZero

RosenHost said:


> As a non-US, I believe Obama is/was a great president for United States. Especially after two George W. Bush presidency terms.
> 
> 
> Obama has been a progressive soft power leader. He managed to get US army out of IRAQ and Afghanistan (mostly). He did well against Putin, Russia and China. Many US patriots might think that, US lost control in Middle East and Far East Asia during his presidency. I do not believe that. With his financial measures, Russia is not as strong as it should be and China's economic miracle is already about to come to an end. What US should do is to keep together a strong economy, create jobs, produce in country and move towards a wellfare state. The capitalist is just too reckless in there I believe. Obama was a good guy to keep the balance, as far as I can see. So much debth in that economy of US. It should be fixed somehow.
> 
> 
> I see the candidates. Trump sounds like a joke. I do not know much about Sanders but I hope Hillary gets the presidential seat and good old Willy can rule the USA once again, as her shadow.



This right here is the entire problem. I agree we never should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if we go into some place level it. Screw pissing around with this bullshit we are doing. ISIS wants to run its mouth, and make boasts about what they are going to do, level the flippin country and be done with it. Quit wasting the money and time, to try to route them out, before long people will start handling their own shit and quit running to everyone else to solve their damned problems for them. 


Yeape we have debt and a shit ton of it is because of us sticking our noses into other countries. I say we stay home and work on our stuff, like we used back during WWI and WWII. Stop the illegals and crap, fix our own economy, homelessness, people without work, people living on less then average wages, etc..... Then maybe just maybe worry about our neighbors. 


As for Trump I think he has the right idea. Some one needs to speak up tell people how it is, and how it is going to be. We need some one with some back bone, and is not afraid to say,"Hell no you are not going to do that". It is about time some one told them bluntly and to their faces shut the hell up and clean up your act.


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## MannDude

Time to give this thread the MannDude bump.


Good to see both anti-establishment candidates doing well. Sanders and Trump are making waves, and regardless if you like him or not: Trump is a force to be reckoned with. He's doing astonishingly well and isn't going away anytime soon.


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## drmike

I am liking Trump.  Sanders I am alright somewhat with.  The whole free stuff for everyone though isn't my thing, but realist about life being unfair and some baseline that should exist and safety nets.  I think we need to rethink entitlements from top to bottom.  Cut corporate welfare, stop offshoring and companies moving abroad to avoid paying here while selling here.


I am reminded often by ex pats living abroad who the IRS wants to pay annually for their monies earned abroad while they live abroad. Long arm says you are citizen so you owe back home.  Same isn't how it applies to corporations, sadly.  I mean it should or individuals should be exempt just the same.


As silly as it sounds, whoever wins this race, I'd like to see them include a good chunk of the guys and gals also running for cabinet.  I think it's time for consensus building and crossing lines and inclusion.


Hopefully this election destroys the two party monopoly stronghold.


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## drmike

... and yes, I think pretty highly of Kasich.   He's a little too war hawkish in spots for me, something most Republicans need to knock off.  


Strong military = good, sticking your nose in foreign affairs and overthrowing leaders = very bad.


Cruz I enjoy his oratory skills, but the guys face and smile are too sadistic and his wife is an insider and both are former Whitehouse workers in Bush administration.  #JUSTSAYNOTOBUSHES.


Waiting to see what Mike Bloomberg does - considering a run... Last was an independent as mayor of New York City.


If Bloomberg jumps in, it is going to wreck Trump and shoe-in Clinton on vote splits.  #JUSTSAYNOTOCLINTONS


Meh, I've enjoyed the Republican debates so far.  Democrat debates not so much so.


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## MannDude

I'm waiting for Feb. 20th for the North Carolina primary. It's winner take all in terms of delegates (50). So far Trump is polling above others there but time will tell how he does. It's where candidates play dirty since so much is at stake. I'm sure they're all going to come out swinging at Trump. I'll have my popcorn ready regardless.


EDIT: I guess the dem's have their primary in NC on the 27th. Unsure how it works for them in regards to delegates. But since it's Clinton VS Sanders I doubt it'll be as exciting as watching a half dozen men cling to relevance and attack the leader of their pack.


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> I'm waiting for Feb. 20th for the North Carolina primary. It's winner take all in terms of delegates. So far Trump is polling above others there but time will tell how he does. It's where candidates play dirty since so much is at stake. I'm sure they're all going to come out swinging at Trump. I'll have my popcorn ready regardless.



I really think the States should standardize.  The winner take all is blah.  Apportion delegates based on voting totals I say.


Going to be mighty interesting the NC primary.


Then we have what?  Some super-whatever with a slew of States start of March?


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## MannDude

drmike said:


> I really think the States should standardize.  The winner take all is blah.  Apportion delegates based on voting totals I say.
> 
> 
> Going to be mighty interesting the NC primary.
> 
> 
> Then we have what?  Some super-whatever with a slew of States start of March?



Yeah, it's a mind-fuck trying to learn how it's done... Every state is different. Different states and districts assign different number of delegates and each party has their own rules.


After SC it's... uhh.. I think Florida and Nevada? Would have to look it up but trying not to look that far ahead. =]


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> Yeah, it's a mind-fuck trying to learn how it's done... Every state is different. Different states and districts assign different number of delegates and each party has their own rules.
> 
> 
> After SC it's... uhh.. I think Florida and Nevada? Would have to look it up but trying not to look that far ahead. =]



Florida if it is coming up soon is mega interesting.  It's a purple state that whatever way it goes, stands to swing the winner in regular election.  We saw that with Bush and the hanging chads and the Supreme Court insanity.


----------



## MannDude

I swear, with some people they'd rather you come out and say you support Bill Cosby or Jared Fogle before they'd want to hear you say you support Trump.


So Trump won South Carolina last night, and every single republican candidate who won both New Hampshire and South Carolina went on to get the republican nomination for president. I think we're going to wind up with a Trump vs Clinton presidential election personally. Sanders has huge support from the youngsters but I just don't see the bulk of America, even democrats, voting for a democratic socialist. I don't like Clinton at all but Trump should have a treasure trove of material to work with when it comes to running against her.


----------



## DomainBop

> If Bloomberg jumps in, it is going to wreck Trump and shoe-in Clinton on vote splits.  #JUSTSAYNOTOCLINTONS



Emperor Mike, the guy who spent $270 mill to buy 3 Mayoral elections ?  The only ones who benefited from his term in office were large corporations and wealthy (white) Manhattanites.  Everyone else in the city basically got screwed.  Small businesses here were hit especially had during the midget's reign.



> I think we're going to wind up with a Trump vs Clinton presidential election personally.



Probably more likely than a Barr vs McAfee matchup 


Peace and Freedom Party nominee: Roseanne Barr  http://www.ontheissues.org/Roseanne_Barr.htm


Libertarian Party contender: John McAfee https://mcafee2016.com/


----------



## drmike

I like some of what Sanders has to say.  But calling him an outsider is a joke. He's been an elected official for at least 25 years and I think more in local offices prior to that.


As a Senator I heard, but didn't fact check, that he's proposed like 353 different bills.  Of them 3 have been passed and what they were was insane bullshit like naming something after someone.


If this is his track record for real, it shows he can't build bridges (let alone walls) and consensus to get things done.


I like Trump.  He's brutally to the point and saying what a lot of folks out here on Main Street think and see every day.  You should note that in voting data from South Carolina Trump had Republican support of all types, the religious, the blue collar group strongly his way.  Only disconnect really is the white collar wing of the Republican party that is going elsewhere - Rubio + Cruz.


As Bush and others pack up, we'll see if Trump has what it takes to win in other primary states.   


Cruz, meh, such a smart guy and witty.  But dirtbag politics by his campaign manager.   That's going to wreck his campaign.  The fake mailers, the Carson stunt, etc.  The manager pulled the same shit in 2012 I think it was and was investigated for it.  There is a legal gavel with that bastards name on it coming soon.


Clinton, meh, I hate dynasties. Time came and went for her like it did the Bush buddies.


Bloomberg, I can see that a$$hole tossing his name in just to toss the election to Clinton.  Same sort of screw job that we saw back with Ross Perot causing Bill Clinton to win.  Never liked Bloomberg.  He's the worst about mega wealth. The idiot more hell bent on regulating soda pop container sizes than addressing the what? $10+ billion NYC school district budget and the rampant illiteracy in their high school GRADUATES.


Yeah, Bloomberg has his greedy head on sideways and all that money to be mayor of a city, meh, we should have laws that prohibit spending on campaigns. Literally, a campaign, all contestants should have to live within a reasonable budget that looks like the median househould income they intend to rule over.  Maybe the presidential election can take the median household income per state and add them all up for total campaign budget.  Telling you, spending reform needs to happen.  Jeb tried to buy the election and ran through over $100~ million in primary spending.   Talking about idiots like him spending what end of an election cycle?  A billion?  MAYBE not, but going to be way up there and continue to balloon unless something is done.


----------



## RosenHost

As a non-US, I really liked Bernie Sanders. Does he really have a chance ? Btw, Hillary Clinton sounds like a republican


----------



## drmike

RosenHost said:


> As a non-US, I really liked Bernie Sanders. Does he really have a chance ? Btw, Hillary Clinton sounds like a republican



Interesting input as an outsider.


Sanders is an interesting character.  I like some of his stances. Others go a bit too far I think into entitlements (which I don't think the rich, the poor, the rural, the urban, the blue, the green, the corporations or anyone else should get).


Does Sanders have a chance?  I think so.  Remains to be seen in other races though.  They have him leading nationally in a popular vote of Democrats by 3-6 points currently.  That is within error margin though.


This Clinton sounds Republican is interesting.  What to you seems Republican?  Perhaps her foreign policy and heavy war sounding trumpet?


----------



## RosenHost

drmike said:


> This Clinton sounds Republican is interesting.  What to you seems Republican?  Perhaps her foreign policy and heavy war sounding trumpet?



Exactly. You read my mind. She is also seems to be close to lobbies and Wall Street. I believe she could have an easier election adventure without the Bingazi incident and those e-mail drama.


----------



## drmike

RosenHost said:


> Exactly. You read my mind. She is also seems to be close to lobbies and Wall Street. I believe she could have an easier election adventure without the Bingazi incident and those e-mail drama.



She's a conflicted woman.  Most of it is theater to represent her financial interests.


Problem is these interests send our young off to die in 'conflicts'.  For what?  Special interests, not human rights abuse (about the only reason to be aiding and present abroad in active conflict).


Bengahzi stuff is atrocious.  Public needs more awareness about what happened.  It's very shameful incident.


----------



## Licensecart

It really is going to be hard on the USA and the citizens  really feel sorry for everyone including my American mates. 


If you get Trump then the USA is screwed. If he isn't you are most likely going to get Clinton and the USA would be even more screwed as she's corrupt.


----------



## drmike

Licensecart said:


> It really is going to be hard on the USA and the citizens  really feel sorry for everyone including my American mates.
> 
> 
> If you get Trump then the USA is screwed. If he isn't you are most likely going to get Clinton and the USA would be even more screwed as she's corrupt.



Trump in all fairness at least knows how to negotiate deals and is willing to.  We sorely need someone with business sense in office for at least a term.


We've had too many harda$$ politicians who play this ugly war hawk routine (Republicans are notorious for that, and Madam Clinton is doing her best imitation).  We've had too many politicians that promise hope and change just to get nothing done and have gridlock.  The US needs to start worrying about itself, its citizens, its infrastructure, etc. first and primarily.


I think jobs issue is a big one and lots of people can relate to it. Immigration is a big one too invaders illegally in the States causing hell in many places and other places see the worldly aspect and protectionism necessary to preserve jobs being shipped abroad as part of deals to exploit cheap labor abroad.  No joke, last 15+ years in the US have seen many people put out, wages collapse for many, uncertainty for too many. 


The guy (Trump) isn't perfect (who is?), but at least he understands business and hasn't been on taxpayer welfare as his career.  I am tired of lifelong politicians.  Bums need to get one term and then a real job.


I expect Tuesday to see him wipe Florida with Rubio's face and make it hell of a competitive race in Cruz's own adopted home state of Texas.   I am stock piling popcorn and beer for Tuesday night.


----------



## Licensecart

drmike said:


> Trump in all fairness at least knows how to negotiate deals and is willing to.  We sorely need someone with business sense in office for at least a term.
> 
> 
> We've had too many harda$$ politicians who play this ugly war hawk routine (Republicans are notorious for that, and Madam Clinton is doing her best imitation).  We've had too many politicians that promise hope and change just to get nothing done and have gridlock.  The US needs to start worrying about itself, its citizens, its infrastructure, etc. first and primarily.
> 
> 
> I think jobs issue is a big one and lots of people can relate to it. Immigration is a big one too invaders illegally in the States causing hell in many places and other places see the worldly aspect and protectionism necessary to preserve jobs being shipped abroad as part of deals to exploit cheap labor abroad.  No joke, last 15+ years in the US have seen many people put out, wages collapse for many, uncertainty for too many.
> 
> 
> The guy (Trump) isn't perfect (who is?), but at least he understands business and hasn't been on taxpayer welfare as his career.  I am tired of lifelong politicians.  Bums need to get one term and then a real job.
> 
> 
> I expect Tuesday to see him wipe Florida with Rubio's face and make it hell of a competitive race in Cruz's own adopted home state of Texas.   I am stock piling popcorn and beer for Tuesday night.



The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.


Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.


----------



## MannDude

Licensecart said:


> The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.
> 
> 
> Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.



Trump doesn't hate all muslims, doesn't hate all Mexicans. That's a silly claim. 


We have immigration laws in America that are not being enforced. I don't see the issue with enforcing the laws on the books and having a better screening process for those entering the country. It's no secret that our western way of life isn't compatible with extremist Islam, and if the inconvenience of being properly vetted saves even one American life I'd say it was worth it. Keep in mind that comments regarding Muslims came shortly after a Muslim extremist opened fire in California killing 14 people that he worked with, co-workers and friends. And of course the Paris massacre. Muslim _extremism_ has no place in a civilised society.


I've not actually heard Trump say anything specifically that was racist. I've seen plenty of headlines from liberal rags stating he was racist, but when I read to learn more I realize they selectively chose a section of quote or speech.


And as it turns out, _legal_ immigrants really seem to like him too. It appears they're fans of not allowing people enter the country undocumented and reaping the same benefits they worked hard to earn legally.


And here's the thing, everyone says, "Oh, but Trump hates immigrants. He hates them!"


False. His grandparents were immigrants who came to America _legally_, his wife is an immigrant, who came to America _legally_. He's hired many people who have immigrated to America legally (And some controversy over contractors who may have hired illegal immigrants as well), but he's certainly not anti-immigration.


Grandson of immigrants, married an immigrant, hired many women in top ranking executive and decision making positions in his companies before it was 'cool', daughter is married to an Orthodox Jew of which Trump is close to, has pretty strong support from African American republicans and some dems and as he said in a rally yesterday when some Black Lives Matter protectors got kicked out: "We have to love everybody. All lives matter. All lives matter"


I mean, I'll admit it. Trump wasn't my first choice. And of course I heard all the bad stuff about him at first too. He's racist. He's literally Hitler. Etc etc. But once I looked into it more I found that none of that was true, and his policies and stances were pretty solid.


Yanked this from reddit:


This is what Trump's platform is:



• Wants to audit the Federal Reserve.


• Doesn't have any special interests groups funding him unlike the other candidates. Has called for all candidates to return the money they're getting back to Super PACs and to remove special interest groups from our election process.


• HE IS NOT A RACIST. He acknowledges the danger of allowing mass refugees from places governed by fundamentalist terrorist groups, even if such acknowledgment is not politically correct. (ie: not letting Muslims in the country, not ever, but UNTIL THE VISA PROBLEM IS FIXED – he’s said this many times). He has also openly said many times that he loves all people “All Lives Matter”.


• He has absolutely nothing against legal immigration, he's encouraged it many times. His grandparents are immigrants, his wife is an immigrant, several of his closest business partners in New York are immigrants. He is against uncontrolled, illegal immigration. He has won the latino vote by a landslide several times, including in Nevada, and has repeatedly stated that it’s NOT that he hates Mexico, or Hispanics (employs thousands of them), but that he hates what our government is allowing them to do – ie: flood across the border undocumented.


• Diversity: he employed women in leadership roles before it was popular to do that. And he did it in the construction industry of all places.


• Hugely successful businessman, knows how to manage money, how to invest for the future and an absolutely fantastic negotiator. He has spent FAR less (of his own money, with no special interests or donors) than any other candidate, and is far ahead.


• Acknowledgement that political correctness is obnoxious.


• Wants to hold Hillary Clinton accountable, and prosecute her – when no one else will (Obama administration protecting her)


• No more nation building in the Middle East. He openly called the Iraq War a mistake even back when it wasn't cool to do so.


• He wants lower and middle class tax cuts.


• He is focused on American jobs (esp with Carrier and many others recently moving to Mexico)


• He wants to reduce student loan debt. Is against the government charging interest on student loans: "That's probably one of the only things the government shouldn't make money off – I think it's terrible that one of the only profit centers we have is student loans." Openness to lowering student loan interest rates and making loan forgiveness programs.


• Likes universal healthcare, will repeal the mandate (requiring health insurance and fining those who don’t get it), and is open to replacing America's broken system with something similar to Canada but better.


• Moderate on social issues (e.g. affirmative action, women's health, gay rights)


• Focus on broad-based American nationalism instead of narrow and divisive race and gender identity politics.


• Wants to legalize marijuana


• Desire to put America first in trade deals instead of pure Wall Street globalism that exploits third world workers abroad and destroys domestic jobs.


• Realist based foreign policy. (e.g. deal with Putin if it is in our national interest to do so, even if he isn't a nice guy).


• National pride. The man loves his country and thinks it is the best. Every country should have a leader like that.


• Unlike other candidates, his economic plan actually makes sense. It would result in "an 11 percent higher GDP, a 29 percent larger capital stock, 6.5 percent higher wages, and 5.3 million more full-time equivalent jobs".


• There are videos of him in 1991 talking about how to utilize the upper class to re-invest in America or face higher taxes . Not only is he very knowledgeable in economics and investment, but the tax structure he offers up back in 91' seems relevant even today to help alleviate some of the complaints we have about 1%'ers and wall street.


• He's genuinely against TPP.


Strong stance on trade reform to make America benefit more from foreign trade


Strong second amendment stances




For decades he's expressed concern for America falling behind as a country and all the countries we do business with surpassing us. He does seem to genuinely care about America as evident of just listening to him speak in interviews in the 80's and 90's.


At this point he pretty much has the GOP nomination in the bag. Super Tuesday is tomorrow, he's expected to do very well in most states. And then on the democratic side you have Sanders and Clinton, both of which he should be able to easily beat. Sanders isn't doing very well yet and unless he picks up steam tomorrow then he's going to be too far behind in delegates that his generally lazy, young, supporter base will likely get discouraged. One thing I've found about Sanders supporters is that they seem to be mostly anti-establishment and a good deal will defect and jump to Trump if Clinton is the democratic nominee because they hate Clinton more than they hate Trump which is comical to me.


A Clinton or Sanders presidency is what really scares me.


----------



## Licensecart

He's playing with your mind haha even on CNN:



> Trump has beat back criticism in recent weeks that he is bigoted against Muslims, even telling CNN on Saturday when asked whether Muslims pose a danger to the U.S. that he thinks Muslims "are great people."
> 
> 
> "I love the Muslims. I think they're great people," Trump told CNN in September.



http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/



But it's your country and your voting for the future, so I'll shut up now  but yeah we have Muslims in the UK, we've got them in our Parties, and not all muslims are terrorists, just like all Americans with guns aren't going to use them for murdering people like the Uber driver or other killings in the USA. But yeah if you have Trump... Good luck


----------



## drmike

Licensecart said:


> The thing with Trump is he hates everyone and would probably start a war or even bankrupt the country when people leave. He hates "all" Muslims, he hates "all" Mexicans... surprised he's not hating on the French yet. Only takes ISIS to kick back and go ok you hate us let's attack you first, since the USA and UK are apparently on their targets after the Paris attack.
> 
> 
> Not all muslims are terrorists, 80% probably of muslims don't follow that book ISIS does. And we've got members of our Government parties who are Muslim and if we elect a leader who is a Muslim and they get to be Prime Minister of the UK, then he's / she's banned from the USA. Not because of themselves but their religion which is why we want Trump banned from the UK, even though he has invested in Scotland (haha). But it's because he's a racist bastard. Yes some of the UK are racist but we don't publicise our racism.



Trump isn't a hater.   His own companies are very diverse and he hires women and minorities at rates that exceed others and has for many decades.


Muslims is a blanket term and logically so.  We have these terrorists attacks and they aren't being perpetrated by white Protestants.  If they were, you'd hear regulating the flow of Protestants to the US.


I have a number of Muslim friends and they get this.  Most of them support Trump even.


I think the term racism has got way abused and watered down.  


The current racism banter about Trump seems to be hinged on a media created falsehood that a former KKK local leader in Louisiana endorsed Trump. The story was false and Trump disavowed multiple times.


Are there racists that just hate people because of skin tone or national origin?  Yes.  At this level of spotlight and when operating such big businesses though,  would be damn near impossible.  


War concerns though, I feel that sentiment.  Every administration here in the States during my life has had us in and put us in new undeclared wars - both Democrats and Republicans. I am pro military where it makes sense.  But I am 100% anti-interventionist.  No way my time and energy should be funding war machines and chipping up young soldiers lives to protect special interests all over the world.   My father did multiple tours in foreign theaters, so did my grandfather.  For what?  Ruined many lives and the world would have been better if we stayed at home and took care of our own country.


PS:  I like some of Sanders schtick too.  Lesser so.  I'd vote for him second to Trump.   Reason why?  Sanders has been in office for decades.  He gets nothing passed ever.  He's a well intentioned, but no results sort of guy living on our generosity.


----------



## drmike

Also, I haven't liked Trump's likely limited knowledge and stance on the Apple vs. DOJ matter about breaking into phones and busting up crypto in essence.


That issue has me a bit sore.  However, I am not hearing anything logical or informed out of the candidates.  It's a nerd / fringe and complex issue...


With that one, I think they are all playing up to BOO factor of the electorate.


----------



## AuroraZero

The thing I like about Trump is he has a backbone and is not afraid to tell people how it is whether they like it or not. He does not care if you like him or not, he will tell what he thinks about anything to your face. We need more of this in America. We spend way too much time trying to soften things for everyone. We are to busy being afraid of offending some faith, race, or creed, that the truth is often lost, and this has to stop.


----------



## HN-Matt

re: the recent phenomena where the media was comparing Trump to Hitler in direct proportion to rising levels of panic concerning his ongoing lead in the polls, it made me wonder, has Big Data gotten around to making a database of every single invocation of Godwin's Law in known history yet? Would probably be a pretty hilarious/horrifying read. Frankly, I can't imagine why the Internet should even exist if not for a giant accumulation of increasingly irrelevant Hitler analogies from all of the venerable pillars of thought in contemporary media. There could be an anonymization toggle to transform it into a timeless, undifferentiated mass and stuff. Heck, if anything needs increased redundancy without the added baggage of mere attribution, it is the persistence and intensification of Godwin's Law. The cloud should look no further for its next raison d’être.


----------



## VyprNetworks

I just hope we do not get Trump.


----------



## HN-Matt

I'm too generally apolitical and not immersed enough in American politics to offer any serious opinions, but on the other hand I was somehow transfixed watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtMeOqXPDH4


----------



## Munzy

All the candidates are pieces of large, smelly, maggot ridden shit, and I want none of them for president.


----------



## drmike

HN-Matt said:


> re: the recent phenomena where the media was comparing Trump to Hitler in direct proportion to rising levels of panic concerning his ongoing lead in the polls, it made me wonder, has Big Data gotten around to making a database of every single invocation of Godwin's Law in known history yet? Would probably be a pretty hilarious/horrifying read. Frankly, I can't imagine why the Internet should even exist if not for a giant accumulation of increasingly irrelevant Hitler analogies from all of the venerable pillars of thought in contemporary media. There could be an anonymization toggle to transform it into a timeless, undifferentiated mass and stuff. Heck, if anything needs increased redundancy without the added baggage of mere attribution, it is the persistence and intensification of Godwin's Law. The cloud should look no further for its next raison d’être.



Any time this much hate gets shipped at anyone and in conjunction with Hitler, you know that person almost certainly has the establishment reeling.  The BOO! Hitler scare long wore off for me.  It's bandied about for everything.  It's like a 3-5 step debate escalation approach by morons to invoke the dreaded Hitler.


For all of Hitler's vileness, he is greatly overshadowed by the evilness of Mao.  Yet no popular society invocation of Mao in debate logic.



HN-Matt said:


> I'm too generally apolitical and not immersed enough in American politics to offer any serious opinions, but on the other hand I was somehow transfixed watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtMeOqXPDH4



Unlike most of America I actually own property in the 100 mile no man zone of the southern border.  I can tell you all about border situation.  It's a f!#king disaster.  Border Patrol is nowhere near the border, disarmed and even if they catch idiots illegal, little to nothing is done, often catch and release like some sport fishing.  Obama I had high hopes on getting the border together.  He did nothing.  Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.


I 100000000% support deporting illegals and tossing their a$$es in jail for breaking our laws. What happens to a nation when only some of the laws are enforced? It creates institutional unfairness.  Punish this problem group but not that one because it is nothing more than fashionable to do such.  Laws not enforced should be expired and withdrawn. 


I think we should empty our prisons by decriminalizing harmless self-harm crimes by US citizens like marijuana consumption and use the space to house the invaders (who aren't just Mexican).  Plenty of odd stories of illegals entering the US southern border with origin being Middle East.  Anyone can just walk in on the southern border, it is pedestrian to do so.  So easy, a five year old could do it in most of the border zone.  True that the northern border is the same, but where Canadians are entering illegally we don't have statistical representation of them raising hell here.  Yes someone from elsewhere could and certainly do enter the US illegally via Canada, but today that isn't a problem.  In the future, IF the southern border is secured, the northern border will be the route to take.


If I go illegally into Mexico it is no joke what happens.  



> Illegal entry into the country [Mexico] is equivalent to a *felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment*. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; *illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment*. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country...



source: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229641/how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens-michelle-malkin


----------



## drmike

Meanwhile currently in Missouri, we have a foreign invader who is prior deported, botched handling or none by US officials.   Now this guy is a serial killer of 4-5.


http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/illegal-immigrant-accused-of-killing-5-taken-into-custody/


ICE, along with Border Patrol and other agencies need to do their jobs right.  They aren't because they are on orders to stand down.  If they did their jobs it would go a long way to righting things.


----------



## HN-Matt

drmike said:


> For all of Hitler's vileness, he is greatly overshadowed by the evilness of Mao.  Yet no popular society invocation of Mao in debate logic.



I think it's because American Exceptionalism likes to endlessly claim Moral Authority for winning WW2. They didn't fight a war of similar magnitude against Maoism so the 21st C talking heads have no motivation to create similar incoherent political analogies re: Mao.

It may also be because WW2 was the last war America helped to 'win' in a decisive or triumphalist sense. It's been a bit of a disaster since then, far as I can tell. Seems amusing that _Reductio ad Hitlerum_ is being used against Trump, his slogan in mind, to the extent that America can only be perceived as 'great' in contrast to Hitler.
 



drmike said:


> Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.



Pathetic.


----------



## drmike

HN-Matt said:


> I think it's because American Exceptionalism likes to endlessly claim Moral Authority for winning WW2. They didn't fight a war of similar magnitude against Maoism so the 21st C talking heads have no motivation to create similar incoherent political analogies re: Mao.
> 
> It may also be because WW2 was the last war America helped to 'win' in a decisive or triumphalist sense. It's been a bit of a disaster since then, far as I can tell. Seems amusing that _Reductio ad Hitlerum_ is being used against Trump, his slogan in mind, to the extent that America can only be perceived as 'great' in contrast to Hitler.
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic.



 or maybe they fail to mention how the US enabled Mao.  Just like the Bush family enabled and bankrolled Hitler.  Just saying, remove US from things and history would be a lot different and a lot less dead people.  WW2 was indeed the last time the US appeared to come out on the winning side.  Been one embarrassment after another since then.  Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, Terror, etc.  It's all theater, but unfortunately our young (and usually poor) die from such.



> Border Patrol still up there 75 miles north of border.. Bothering Americans on their way to shop or work.



And it's really true, people will say it sounds insane.  Really are no checkpoints in big areas at border and first checkpoint like 50-75 miles inland. 


Needless to say locals aren't real happy with the Border Patrol.  People stay civil, but Border Patrol is known to run around like the are the police force in the no man zone, bothering civilians and putting their noses where jurisdiction should have them off limits.


----------



## HN-Matt

drmike said:


> or maybe they fail to mention how the US enabled Mao.  Just like the Bush family enabled and bankrolled Hitler.  Just saying, remove US from things and history would be a lot different and a lot less dead people.  WW2 was indeed the last time the US appeared to come out on the winning side.  Been one embarrassment after another since then.  Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, Terror, etc.  It's all theater, but unfortunately our young (and usually poor) die from such.



Maybe they're all just accidental Artaudians at heart, unconsciously paying homage to his Theatre of Cruelty.
 



drmike said:


> Really are no checkpoints in big areas at border and first checkpoint like 50-75 miles inland.



Really? I heard it was 105-186.283.


----------



## DomainBop

> WW2 was indeed the last time the US appeared to come out on the winning side.  Been one embarrassment after another since then





> It may also be because WW2 was the last war America helped to 'win' in a decisive or triumphalist sense. It's been a bit of a disaster since then, far as I can tell.



WHAT ABOUT OPERATION URGENT FURY??? YEAH, I'M TALKIN' ABOUT OUR GLORIOUS VICTORY IN GRENADA!!! WE WON THAT ONE FOR THE GIPPER IN 1983!!!!  THOSE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL!!!


OUR ALLIES LOVED THE INVASION TOO:



> the invasion was highly criticized by the governments in Canada, Trinidad and Tobago, and the United Kingdom. The United Nations General Assembly condemned it as "a flagrant violation of international law"[17] by a vote of 108 in favour to 9, with 27 abstentions.[18] The United Nations Security Council considered a similar resolution, which failed to pass when vetoed by the United States.


----------



## drmike

DomainBop said:


> WHAT ABOUT OPERATION URGENT FURY??? YEAH, I'M TALKIN' ABOUT OUR GLORIOUS VICTORY IN GRENADA!!! WE WON THAT ONE FOR THE GIPPER IN 1983!!!!  THOSE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL!!!
> 
> 
> OUR ALLIES LOVED THE INVASION TOO:



Hahaha Grenada.  Canada was just upset since Ca and Gre nada are subtly close in name.  We are coming for those big headed moose.  


UN did what about that?  Nothing?  Had a hissy fit and called the Republicans dangerous German actors?  The rage of then resembles the rage of today.


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## HN-Matt

DomainBop said:


> WHAT ABOUT OPERATION URGENT FURY??? YEAH, I'M TALKIN' ABOUT OUR GLORIOUS VICTORY IN GRENADA!!! WE WON THAT ONE FOR THE GIPPER IN 1983!!!!  THOSE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL!!!



Y'all won Vietnam too! (cf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esXFNTlLxUA)

 



drmike said:


> Hahaha Grenada.  Canada was just upset since Ca and Gre nada are subtly close in name.



Yes, a morphemic-syllabic critique at best. Not quite onomatopoeia.


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## drmike

US definitely didn't win Vietnam and damn nearly had the country go nuts over it.


Shame Americans are so slow to wake up to the scams and get out and try to change things though.  Hasn't been a proper declared war with the US since at least WW2.


War is a racket, so declared Major General Smedley Butler: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf


Audio book version if you prefer that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI3lckqaSk0


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## jarland

I don't ask for perfection from who we elect, I only ask that they be genuine and passionate. When they open their mouth, they should say what they mean, and they should mean what they say. Their record should match their words.


I can think of a candidate on both sides of the aisle that fit the bill for this. Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz. No matter which path you think is the path to success, be it left or right, these two men stand for what they say they stand for. That, in the end, is what matters to me.


Anyone but Hillary or Drumpf.


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## drmike

Everyone watching the insane leftists rioting in Chicago?  Entirely closed down Trump event.


I am all for people protesting.  What happened in Chicago though, heads should roll over.


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## clarity

This election is turning into a circus. We have the largest collection of duds in recent memory. Trump is bad. Clinton is bad. If you like money, Sanders is bad. The best thing that can happen at this point is for us to allow Obama to have a 3rd term until we can find some proper candidates.


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## clarity

Just want to add, Cruz eats boogers.


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## drmike

clarity said:


> This election is turning into a circus. We have the largest collection of duds in recent memory. Trump is bad. Clinton is bad. If you like money, Sanders is bad. The best thing that can happen at this point is for us to allow Obama to have a 3rd term until we can find some proper candidates.



Obama is bad, been bad.  No 3rd term, not allowed... No way...


Sanders did alright as mayor of Burlington.  But rest of his stay in public office has been meh, ineffective grandstanding.  


I like some of his schtick, just this hate of money is hoot... cause... that clown is pulling $156k~ salary, his wife is retired college president (assuming she got paid real good and collects retirement cashola) and they both collected north of $40k last year from social security.  Total income north of $200k...  Which puts them in like top I don't know what of all people globally but confidently say top 5%. Then from there, you'd think he would be all generous about giving away his own money right?  Shit dawg, that swank high roller gave something like $8,350 to charity according to his public numbers... which isn't a piss drop in a bucket.  So I say f*ck it, this cat is faking the funk. Time for him to stop being such a tightwad greedy ... yeah... 


$8350 vs. $200k strong of income is like 4.1% giving.  4.1% giving is moronic.  10% is standard tithing for church go'ers of steady income. Many people give quite a bit more by the time they contribute to civic, social, community, political, etc.  Why?  Cause it lowers tax bill.  Ship the funds to people and entities in your locality than shipping money to government afar that does nothing useful with it and arguably does more harm than good.  Same government TheBern loves / hates depending on when you are paying attention.


What's the IRS say about charitable giving?



> Generally, you may deduct up to 50 percent of your adjusted gross income, but 20 percent and 30 percent limitations apply in some cases



source: https://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Charitable-Contribution-Deductions


And to thing, the out of touch Bezos owned Washington-rag Post said:


"[Sanders] reported relatively modest income last year"


Modest my a$$.  This cat is living high on the hog.  His wife got a golden parachute at point where she was basically fired as president of Burlington College, a cool $200k for being a screw up.


Seriously, for a guy that bashes the successful and says high taxes on $250k and above earners, tad ironic that his own life is in the neighborhood... And that he's personally worth at least $2 million... But all his assets are sitting in his second wifes name, not his.  Can you say structuring and hiding assets?  Probably for the best, cause as much as he talks about handing freebies out, perhaps when the dementia settles in, he'd get to being generous with his own scratch.


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## RosenHost

Terrible candidates on both sides. I do not even wanna talk about Trump. He is a waste of time. I start to think that he is a troll and trolling politics scene. As I said above, Clinton acts and talks like a republican. She is just another Bush on the democrat's side. I really liked her husband as a president. Bernie seems interesting but I guess he does not have that much of a chance


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## VyprNetworks

Munzy said:


> All the candidates are pieces of large, smelly, maggot ridden shit, and I want none of them for president.



True however you have to choose one as long as its not Donald Trump.


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## GIANT_CRAB

I'm keeping an eye out on John Mcafee - https://mcafee2016.com/


Definitely president material but too bad, he speaks too much sanity. USA only wants an insane president.


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## MannDude

Trump with the 5 state sweep tonight. Lyin' Cruz and Gee Golly Kasich had a rough night. Both mathematically impossible to receive the GOP nomination, but staying in it just to try to take votes away from Trump. Doesn't seem to be working.


Sanders very unlikely to win unless he BTFOs Clinton in every remaining state, which is very unlikely since he has no momentum and only one 1/5 states tonight. There are still seats left on the Trump train for any Sanders supporters who wish to ride it to the White House.


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## drmike

I am enjoying the political theater.


Glad people are rallying behind Trump now and shutting up the Republican party.  A ripoff at this point of Trump will spell the end of the Republican party..  They don't want that.


Sanders I feel for.  All those people giving their lunch money and weed money to him.  Such sacrifice, such sadness.


Hoping Trump finds a legit role for Sanders in his campaign.  But I see Sanders going along with the Democrat party and turning everything over to crooked Clinton.


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