# GreenValueHost tells their non high paying clients to GTFO



## Kadar (Nov 15, 2013)

So I have received no prior notice, no offer for a refund for paid services, no chance to tell them I don't want my personal information given to another company...

I don't feel much like a "Valued Customer" Also love the fact that I now have to update multiple customers nameservers because of them selling/sending me to another company.
 



> Valued Customers,
> 
> It is with great regret and remorse that I am sending you this email today to inform you that your services will no longer be continued with GreenValueHost. We have decided that we are going to be moving forward as a cloud web hosting provider and to maintain stability in our infrastructure and do what is best for our clients, we will no longer be servicing clients on srv1 and srv2. Starting today, all existing clients on srv1 and srv2 will be migrated over to a brand new server with one of our partner hosting companies, Hudson Valley Host.
> 
> ...


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## Francisco (Nov 15, 2013)

Were you a VPS or cpanel hosting customer?

I'm curious which side of the company they sold.

Francisco


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## Kadar (Nov 15, 2013)

cPanel Hosting.


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## drmike (Nov 15, 2013)

Another ColoCrossing host with issues.  This time GreenValueHost is bailing out of VPS offers, instead pursuing "cloud" offers instead.  

Unsure why everyone wants to jump on the storm front and ride the storm.  If you couldn't handle OpenVZ and the low barriers to entry, I fail how to see the cloud will be even approachable (i.e. complexity, many more servers, expensive storage, real switching fabric, etc.)



> Valued Customers,
> 
> It is with great regret and remorse that I am sending you this email today to inform you that your services will no longer be continued with GreenValueHost. We have decided that we are going to be moving forward as a cloud web hosting provider and to maintain stability in our infrastructure and do what is best for our clients, we will no longer be servicing clients on srv1 and srv2. Starting today, all existing clients on srv1 and srv2 will be migrated over to a brand new server with one of our partner hosting companies, Hudson Valley Host.
> 
> ...


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 15, 2013)

Another company not wanting to continue. So far, I bought out 2 others that didn't want to stick with their sites.. Oh well. I think we'll all pick up customers that are tired of getting "shafted" by their current host...


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## fizzyjoe908 (Nov 15, 2013)

This sounds more like they sold the cPanel part of the company - that isn't really clear.

Nevertheless, "cloud" is a subjective term or generalization. It essentially is a VPS with network storage and I don't really see that as being a significant change to quantify reasoning for selling whichever part was handed off.


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## MannDude (Nov 15, 2013)

GVH only had two servers?

Didn't they rent these from HVH? Did we ever learn what the 'financial relationship' was between HVH and CC, since if you pay your HVH bill with a credit card, CC shows up on your statement?

Anyhow, hopefully it works out better for the end-users. Judging by previous threads on WHT, GVH was having some trouble keeping customers happy. Since HVH and CC are close, they should have no problem supporting the new clients.

Mergers are never fun for anyone involved, so all past history and whatnot aside, I do wish everyone good luck.


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## MannDude (Nov 15, 2013)

Merged the two topics!


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## drmike (Nov 15, 2013)

Wowzers...  Thanks for the merge.

I know for a fact that GVH's shared hosting on those two servers was laughably high on abuse.  Load sustained was like 11.xx+ earlier this week when chatting with a customer.

Still waiting I guess for HVH/CC to gobble up the VPS offerings.  I mean 200GB + 4GB of RAM + 5GB burst + 300Mbps port unmetered for $5 isn't going to end well.



> 200GB SSD Cached/Accelerated RAID-10 Disk Space
> Unmetered Bandwidth (300mbps Port)
> 4096MB Guaranteed RAM
> 5120MB Burstable RAM
> ...


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## Kadar (Nov 15, 2013)

SRV1 load before being transferred away - Load Averages: 15.30 22.54 23.80


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 15, 2013)

Well, Kadar, if it makes you feel better your information is not going to a new company.  Green Valley and Hudson Valley are both part of ColoCrossing, despite their claims otherwise.  You're not being 'sold to a new company' so much as just shifted around internally.


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## yolo (Nov 15, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Well, Kadar, if it makes you feel better your information is not going to a new company.  Green Valley and Hudson Valley are both part of ColoCrossing, despite their claims otherwise.  You're not being 'sold to a new company' so much as just shifted around internally.


I am not so sure about that, i've seen GVH-Jon in IRC and he is rather dumb.


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## drmike (Nov 15, 2013)

Kadar said:


> SRV1 load before being transferred away - Load Averages: 15.30 22.54 23.80


Nice load baby.  Poop load.  Wonder what sort of hardware that's running on?  



Aldryic C said:


> Green Valley and Hudson Valley are both part of ColoCrossing, despite their claims otherwise.  You're not being 'sold to a new company' so much as just shifted around internally.


No doubt.  That was made crystal clear when CC processed invoices/payments for HVH.


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## drmike (Nov 15, 2013)

yolo said:


> I am not so sure about that, i've seen GVH-Jon in IRC and he is rather dumb.


He'll make an excellent "staff" addition to HVH.  They are known to have staff that is hacker centric and probably 17 years of age on average.


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## Francisco (Nov 15, 2013)

So only the cpanel's were sold and not VPS's?

Just confirming. I know I saw them pushing the cloud stuff pretty hard so it's possible the other cpanel's are really legacy.

Francisco


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## Kadar (Nov 15, 2013)

From a WHT thread with a response by GVH-Jon on 11/11/2013 - "A solution is being worked on to resolve issues on srv2. We're planning on upgrading the hardware soon"

I never knew that upgrading hardware was giving customers to another company?


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## raindog308 (Nov 15, 2013)

drmike said:


> Nice load baby.  Poop load.  Wonder what sort of hardware that's running on?


A load average of 15 might be just fine - it's not hard to find 16-core servers anymore.  Depends on the hardware underneath, and if they had the IO to support it.


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## DomainBop (Nov 15, 2013)

fizzyjoe908 said:


> Nevertheless, "cloud" is a subjective term or generalization. It essentially is a VPS with network storage and I don't really see that as being a significant change to quantify reasoning for selling whichever part was handed off.


Despite the multitude of clowns on WHT who advertise VPS's as "clouds" in the cloud offers section,  cloud essentially is not just "a VPS with network storage" and there are objective standards in place already to define what constitutes "a cloud"

cloud definition on page 5: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-145/SP800-145.pdf

some further reading: http://cloudcomputing.ieee.org/standards

questions to ask a potential IaaS cloud provider before signing up to their service: spreadsheet .xslx format



> I mean 200GB + 4GB of RAM + 5GB burst + 300Mbps port unmetered for $5 isn't going to end well.



Offering 4GB RAM plans on an E3 with only 32GB isn't going to end well regardless of price _(I asked, those plans were on E3's). _


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 15, 2013)

He does not deserve a second chance or to survive after this, to many already.


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## drmike (Nov 16, 2013)

Someone poked me in the arm about this company last week.   It was a past tense story- oh months back.  GVH was racking up invoices, non pay.  Then burst of data activity and over to new place/location.   Even after departing and arrears GVH supposedly did chargebacks.

I don't have documents/billing captures to support that, but it wasn't done to *MORE THAN* one company and added up to something worthy of a federal felony for fraud in the United States.


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## MartinD (Nov 16, 2013)

There's a good reason I didn't take this off his hands when he offered. I know of at least one other member on here that wad approached, too.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 16, 2013)

MartinD said:


> There's a good reason I didn't take this off his hands when he offered. I know of at least one other member on here that wad approached, too.


Now that is some interesting information.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 16, 2013)

On his website you can still order shared hosting. If your going to make a decision to stop offering it then perhaps update your website.


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## DomainBop (Nov 16, 2013)

drmike said:


> I mean 200GB + 4GB of RAM + 5GB burst + 300Mbps port unmetered for $5 isn't going to end well.


He just posted an updated version of that 4GB/$5 offer on LET tonight.  Disk space increased to 225GB, IPv4 increased to 2.


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## drmike (Nov 16, 2013)

DomainBop said:


> He just posted an updated version of that 4GB/$5 offer on LET tonight.  Disk space increased to 225GB, IPv4 increased to 2.


Can you say #FAIL.

Mind you, again, I hate to see any company fail, but lowering your trousers to that level and saying just take it is insanity.


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## DomainBop (Nov 17, 2013)

search: http://www.ilsos.gov/corporatellc/index.jsp

a couple of articles explaining "not in good standing" status

http://www.corporatedirect.com/good-standing-are-you-in-good-standing/

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e93e60fa-1b0d-4b11-bdaf-632c1c4c0e59

tl;dr of those 2 articles is companies not in good status can't sign contracts (for example, a TOS contract) and the officers could potentially be held personally liable for anything that occurs during the period the company isn't in good standing


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## drmike (Nov 17, 2013)

DomainBop said:


> tl;dr of those 2 articles is companies not in good status can't sign contracts (for example, a TOS contract) and the officers could potentially be held personally liable for anything that occurs during the period the company isn't in good standing


Good points and work @DomainBop!   

The tl;dr = GreenValueHost is not compliant with the State of Illinois for their incorporation.  They've failed to do something, be it filing fees, annual reports, whatever.  Therefore the corporation is little to no value and all liability should now fall personally on the corporate operators.


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## drmike (Nov 17, 2013)

WTF.

So GreenValue dumps users on their head and migrates them to HVH, the cPanel shared clients.  You'd expect them to be out of shared hosting (i.e. not profitable).   But no.

Today, on WHT, a freaking sales job for more shared hosting from them.

Link: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1323101



> GreenValueHost - UNLIMITED Disk/BW CLOUD SSD LiteSpeed Web Hosting - Now 20% OFF!!
> 
> 
> GreenValueHost is a premium customer-centric company founded on October 16, 2012 with a mission to exceed excellence in providing industry leading web hosting solutions. GreenValueHost today is a profitable, rapidly expanding company, managing thousands of domains from clients all over the globe.
> ...


Why wouldn't you / didn't GVH migrate existing customers to their new "cloud" shared hosting?

As Damian from ipxCore pointed out elsewhere:



> Weren't you trying to sell off this company last week due to bad decisions made on overselling resources versus price charged?


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 17, 2013)

Basically Jon claims it was too difficult to migrate the 'non cloud' shared cpanel users to the cloud based one lol. 

But hey people still want to support his actions and buy into a service that is bound to collapse again.


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## drmike (Nov 17, 2013)

It gets better... Just in past hour, along comes a flowery review of GVH's shared hosting, even though the customer is being dumped off with someone else.  

This is from WHT:

Link: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8917198



> With the upcoming transfer away from shared hosting GVH has stated that *though I will be on a different company's servers, they will continue to support me, which I am grateful for*. I did ask about moving my plan to their cloud, and they said I would need to take out a new plan with them to do that. I can't afford to give up my discounted plan or I would, but they were clear and fair - even if I am a little disappointed


So let me get this straight,   the shared cPanel hosting was sold/transferred to HVH, but GVH is going to continue to support those customers even though they are on other company's servers?

Come on now.   Whole situation is utter disbelief.   Here we have in theory a company just transferring away customers and their data to another company.  A company with HACKER CHILDREN doing ticketing and other support.  Customers should know who they are dealing with and the records of such company failures should be preserved for all of history.

Either:

A. They owed invoices to HVH/CC, or

B. Incompetent and couldn't migrate users (why not just leave them parked on server then) or,

C. Part of the shell company BS over at CC.

Contracts don't just transfer over and GVH seems to lack proper legal documents covering such along with privacy.

If we believe cPanel was unprofitable and thus dumped, how are we supposed to believe that something "cloud" maybe involving OnApp (wasn't that said somewhere?) is going to be profitable.   

My face hurts from all the facepalm on this mess.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 17, 2013)

My guess would be he owes/owed money to HVH and they cut some sort of deal. Who knows.

Why not transfer the customers from the old CP servers to the new 'cloud' based ones? cPanel makes that REALLY easy to do and you get to not only keep the customers but the income they generate.

My guess is that he is offering SSD shared hosting now on a hypervised environment, a VM or two with underlying SSDs. The issue is that he likely cannot fit the customers within the infrastructure available due to cost/resource availability of the actual SSDs. Since the business is cashflow negative and only operated by 1 person, the decision was made to extend the life a little. Unfortunately its probably hurt more than helped.

The fact that he is returning to unlimited roots will yield the same results as what just happened. Doors will close no matter what. Hes got the new SSD 'cloud' based cPanel shared hosting but still offering unlimited// this and that. This will once again drive away his income and lower the quality.

Running VMs as production servers for shared environments generally dont work.

This has been detailed many times in the past. The negative reviews are all basically the same complaints, the responses are the same hostile remarks.

There have been numerous times in the past prior to HVH that he ends up with 0 funds and charges back and or leaves providers. One of them me (this is public put forth by Jon himself and so not a breach of anything private) - Still owes my company money and others.

Its just over, thats it. Send a email to everyone apologize and  leave it.


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## Francisco (Nov 17, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> My guess is that he is offering SSD shared hosting now on a hypervised environment, a VM or two with underlying SSDs. The issue is that he likely cannot fit the customers within the infrastructure available due to cost/resource availability of the actual SSDs. Since the business is cashflow negative and only operated by 1 person, the decision was made to extend the life a little. Unfortunately its probably hurt more than helped.


This is a very reasonable thing and it's what came to mind. "They can't offer gobs on pure SSD storage, it's just not reasonable".

Now there's the unlimited thing, though, which washes that whole point away. It's also possible it's ssd *cached* and not pure SSD. There has been a rather large increase on WHT of hosts claiming SSD cached is "just as good" as pure SSD storage.

Francisco


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## sv01 (Nov 17, 2013)

no, no don't GVH again. their system suck


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 17, 2013)

For someone so quick to stand up and defend his upstream (CC)... why isn't GVH defending himself here?


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## mikho (Nov 18, 2013)

My personal opinion is that GVH sold out all customers because of the new cloud version.


Wouldn't be easy to make all existing customers pay more for something they might not be interested in.


Having the close ties to HVH, it was all or nothing.... All customers or the deal wouldn't happen.


Possible scenario?!


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## drmike (Nov 18, 2013)

mikho said:


> My personal opinion is that GVH sold out all customers because of the new cloud version.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't be easy to make all existing customers pay more for something they might not be interested in.
> ...


Sure, that's very probable.

There was/is a migration path and they refused to use it.

It's strange to sell products at a loss, then decide it's not profitable.   If anything, the shared cPanel is more scalable and abuseable than VPS.   I see big fat VPS plans that they are selling at last check on E3 32GB boxes...   $5 a month for 4GB RAM + 200GB+ of disk.

Me I am about to spent $30 with them and fill their box.  Put them out of their misery.


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## DomainBop (Nov 18, 2013)

> My personal opinion is that GVH...


...is very young and lacking in business experience.  Read this thread for an example http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/16794/fully-managed-server-require tl;dr OP looking for a fully managed VPS for $20 monthly and GVH jumps in with an offer for _"Just $10, which is HALF the price you requested."_


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## MartinD (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, from what I was told it's simply a case of the customers were using too many resources across the 2 VM's that were being used for cPanel. As the nodes themselves are loaded up higher than your average crackhead, he didn't really have much choice. Overselling VM nodes by a factor of 300(!) it doesn't leave much room to grow out VM's when needed.


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## Francisco (Nov 18, 2013)

How do you oversell your node by a factor of 300?

How is that even possible on an E3? That is some seriously wizard shit going on.

Francisco


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## drmike (Nov 18, 2013)

Francisco said:


> How do you oversell your node by a factor of 300?
> 
> 
> How is that even possible on an E3? That is some seriously wizard shit going on.
> ...


Hey look at their upstream.  They are kind of known for the mass slum loading of servers and selling imaginary resources.   They have the formula down pretty good.

Load up SSD flash cache, map SSDs as active RAM / active RAM swap.

Possible on an E3?  Sure.  

Wizardry, a little bit.

All they need now is a LEB offer.


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## InertiaNetworks-John (Nov 19, 2013)

This is wrong on way to many levels...


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 19, 2013)

I've told myself and tried to avoid responding to this thread as I've been advised, but my heart just cannot take it any longer to leave this thread unanswered. I am going to address everything that I can in this thread with this response with absolutely complete honesty as bluntly and clearly as possible.

Truthfully, we did not *sell* our srv1 and srv2 clients to Hudson Valley Host. We gave them to Hudson Valley Host, because we did not have any choice. Martin is correct, one of the issues for why we released our srv1 and srv2 clients to HVH is because of the servers becoming more and more overloaded. The other reason is we want to focus on providing a quality cloud web hosting service. Moving customers to our cloud would cause our cloud servers to be overloaded, and we don't have the infrastructure to maintain a good environment for srv1 and srv2 clients, whilst Hudson Valley Host does and we did the best thing for our srv1 and srv2 clients by letting HVH take care of them. I was advised not to send an email out immediately regarding the transfer to HVH and that was the reason for why clients weren't informed sooner - It's not because we want to avoid refund requests or chargebacks. In fact, I've posted publicly multiple times that srv1 and srv2 clients are more than welcome to ticket in to request a partial refund (or full refund, if they qualify) or compensation for their inconveniences. I take full responsibility for the overselling issues that occurred on srv1 and srv2 in the past, and I do admit they were terrible, terrible business decisions. As time moves on though, much like how the world works in terms of learning your lessons and improving .. I have made improvements to make sure that our hosting servers don't get overloaded again and as a result, our cloud servers are doing fantastic.

We were not in "massive debt" with Hudson Valley Host as some would claim, we simply wanted what was best for our clients. 

Onto the issue regarding our corporation status; I can explain that as well. We've been trying to get out of being incorporated as a corporation for a while now, and our CEO (Lance) has told me that he's submitted LLC papers and they're actually in processing, but can't fully be processed until we get our corporation status settled. We were in a financial crisis at the time of our corporation renewal due to an issue with Stripe and the bank, however we are financially stable now and we're waiting on Lance to get all the papers filed to have our corporation renewed and dissolved and our LLC papers filed. The main reason for why we're reforming as an LLC is to avoid the corporate quarterly tax and also to receive many of the other benefits that comes with an LLC.

A few other things that needs to be addressed as well:

- I am not really authorized to comment on Hudson Valley Host's financial status or business status, etc, however I would like everyone to know that we are not owned by ColoCrossing and we are not one of their shell companies. We lease our dedicated servers from Hudson Valley Host with bulk pricing and maintain a strong and healthy relationship with them.

- In regards to our LET offers, we have that under control and I can assure everyone of that. We obtain extremely cheap pricing on Xeon E3-1240v3 Quad Core dedicated servers and thus that's the primary reason for why we use them as our node hardware. We have many, multiple nodes our LET $5 plans are spread out across.

- We are a financially stable company, and we've been expanding quite rapidly every month. This month, our goal is 200 new completed orders and we're quite close to it, a fact that I'm very proud of.

To sum up what I've said above regarding our srv1 and srv2 transfer to Hudson Valley Host, I made a mistake. I do feel extremely bad for it, and I apologize. I did what I thought was truly right for our clients by giving them a better home, and a better environment. Although you as the readers of VPSBoard and the hosting community may have different views than I do, I believe in the right of free speech and I fully support your right to voice your opinions. 

I can assure you all that the GreenValueHost team and myself certainly do not have any bad intentions at all in this industry, and literally day by day we work our asses off (to say the least), to make sure to the absolute best of our ability that everything is working fine and functioning, and that our clients' needs are accommodated. 

If anyone has any questions, comments, or concerns, they are more than welcome to respond back to this thread to ask questions, or if anyone would like, they're also more than welcome to chat with me via PM, IRC, Skype, or even over the phone.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 19, 2013)

You guys here can all call me a man-child, a baby, or whatever -- but truthfully as I was writing the above response I feel I wrote it while I was psychologically and emotionally stressed and unstable, not knowing how to put the words together to express my emotions of how much grief, pain, sadness, and sorrow from this entire situation here. I think that I might of even shed a tear or two whilst I was writing, and honestly this is just one of those "I have to pour out all my emotions right now otherwise I'm going to have suicidal thoughts" moments.


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## XFS_Duke (Nov 19, 2013)

GHV-Jon, awesome reply. It is a good idea to respond to customers for sure. Maybe some people here will understand and some won't (we know who they will be) but just as long as you're truthful about everything that happened, that is all anyone can want/hope for.


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## shovenose (Nov 19, 2013)

GVH Jon, using long words and lots of them at that doesn't make you a grown up.

It's the same bullshit, over and over again.


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## drmike (Nov 19, 2013)

World's biggest golf clap for @GVH-Jon.  Chin up man.  

I don't understand how cPanel shared hosting spiraled so much out of control.  But I presume there were crazy no real income unlimited plans and those who bought actually used.  Sound right?

Me, I'd never throw a customer away.  That's what happened and well some will hold it against your company.    Why wouldn't you just scale horizontally by adding a new node, I mean you push those low cost E3's....

Considering what happened here, how won't the same happen with VPS offerings?  I see resources vs. money on those and frankly, it doesn't add up, unless everyone fails to use their resources.


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## Kadar (Nov 20, 2013)

So when is HVH supposed to have the load issues fixed?


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## peterw (Nov 20, 2013)

When shit hits the fan.

A bad decission but there are always to sides doing the crazy things. One to offer unlimited and the other buying the unlimited. There's a reason why I stopped buying into hosting plans and do my own stuff on my own servers.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 20, 2013)

Once a bull shitter, always a bull shitter?. Fairly certain John has used the puppy dog excuse before. 

People need to stop enabling stuff like this.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 20, 2013)

shovenose said:


> GVH Jon, using long words and lots of them at that doesn't make you a grown up.
> 
> It's the same bullshit, over and over again.


Glass houses, much?


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## Kruno (Nov 20, 2013)

If the servers were overloaded, how about you upgrade its hardware *and* optimize your HTTPD? Or suspend a few clients that abuse their fair-share?

It's not a rocket science. It will always happen on a default cPanel setup at some point but any average  Linux administrator should be able to figure their way around this. Every hosting provider out there deals with that. You weren't the first one who experienced this.


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## shovenose (Nov 20, 2013)

If you think I'm incompetent realize this: GVH Jon had absolutely no idea how to run a business or a server. He undercut himself not his competitors. Rather than fixing the server he handed it over to those HVH clowns.


ColoCrossing is MUCH more professional than HVH and GVH combined.


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## SkylarM (Nov 20, 2013)

shovenose said:


> If you think I'm incompetent


I'm just going to link this http://vpsboard.com/topic/2332-unmanagedserversnet-kvm-vps-in-atlanta-ga-599mo/


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## HostUS-Alexander (Nov 20, 2013)

SkylarM said:


> I'm just going to link this http://vpsboard.com/topic/2332-unmanagedserversnet-kvm-vps-in-atlanta-ga-599mo/





shovenose said:


> If you think I'm incompetent realize this: GVH Jon had absolutely no idea how to run a business or a server. He undercut himself not his competitors. Rather than fixing the server he handed it over to those HVH clowns.
> 
> 
> ColoCrossing is MUCH more professional than HVH and GVH combined.


"You can't bullshit a bullshitter"


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## Aldryic C'boas (Nov 20, 2013)

HostUS-Alexander said:


> "You can't bullshit a bullshitter"


I was kinda thinking _Is there an upper-age limit on SIDS?_, myself >_>


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 20, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> Once a bull shitter, always a bull shitter?





HostUS-Alexander said:


> "You can't bullshit a bullshitter"


Anyone else got shitty phrases?


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## MartinD (Nov 20, 2013)

What's more tragic are the number of people in here trying to stick a boot in when they themselves have quite sketchy histories or have their own fair share of problems behind closed doors.

Shovenose - you really don't have any right to throw punches in these fights so I'd advise you to stay out of them.

To the rest - lets try and keep it on topic, aye?


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## switsys (Nov 20, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> You guys here can all call me a man-child, a baby, or whatever -- but truthfully as I was writing the above response I feel I wrote it while I was psychologically and emotionally stressed and unstable, not knowing how to put the words together to express my emotions of how much grief, pain, sadness, and sorrow from this entire situation here. I think that I might of even shed a tear or two whilst I was writing, and honestly this is just one of those "I have to pour out all my emotions right now otherwise I'm going to have suicidal thoughts" moments.





XFS_Duke said:


> GHV-Jon, awesome reply.


2nd that.


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## scv (Nov 20, 2013)

I'm glad you finally decided to man up and post here. I personally refuse to comment on the actual issue at hand here since I'm not a GVH customer and I'm not in the game of speculating on the internal affairs of other hosts, but it's my belief that you should at least make a statement when somebody is publicly discussing your company. Blindly refusing to comment in this thread didn't make the slightest bit of sense, regardless of whether the accusations were true or false.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 21, 2013)

Thank You everyone for the support, I very truly appreciate it. It seems like I still do have some things that I need to clear up in this thread, so I will try to answer everyone as best as I can.

Before I start I would like to announce that Green Value Hosting, Inc. is now officially in "Active" status again as recognized by the state of Illinois, which can be verified here: http://www.ilsos.gov/corporatellc/CorporateLlcController, and also that we are making significant progress in improving our company's stability stance in regards of both legal status and internal infrastructure.

@Kadar - I've been informed that the migration has already completed. I cannot comment exactly on what the load is on the new server that you have been migrated to, however I can say with confidence and without a doubt that HVH has stable servers and you'll have a great experience there.

@Kruno - In our company Code of Ethics, (found here: http://www.greenvaluehost.com/codeofethics.html), we guarantee to our customers that we will not raise pricing on them after they sign up. We've held true to this promise and will continue to hold true to this promise for as long as we are standing as a company. One of the reasons that I stated for why we gave our srv1 and srv2 clients to HVH was so that we could focus on our cloud infrastructure. Placing our srv1 and srv2 clients on our SSD-based cloud infrastructure wouldn't be economically feasible for us because it would significantly damage our profit margins unless we raise pricing (which we are not willing to do), thus the best choice that we were left with was to move the clients to another provider. I've pondered deeply regarding the decision, and decided that it was the best thing to do for the well being of our clients' websites.

@Spinikr-RO - Rogan, I understand what you're trying to say here, however in all respects I must say that I'm not trying to make excuses or say that I/we did nothing wrong. I take full responsibility for my actions, and if I believe that I did something wrong, I won't hesitate to admit it and correct the issue; which is what I'm trying to do here. I understand that respect and forgiveness can't be bought with words, but with actions - and I do sincerely hope that the hosting industry and yourself can forgive us for these mistakes and move on to a better future. If you do have any further criticism to make, please by all means feel free. I'm here and ready to listen to anything that you have to say. I'll take it all in mind and use your words to help improve, and I'll be highly thankful that you've taken the time to let me know your concerns.

If anyone else has anything they would like me to address any further, please don't hesitate to reach out.

Thanks again to all of you whom graciously extended to us your support, the GreenValueHost team and myself very highly appreciate it and hold your kindness to much great regard.


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## Kadar (Nov 22, 2013)

@GVH-Jon they changed the server once it was migrated, didn't tell the customers the IP address and nameservers. so downtime for customers


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## MannDude (Nov 23, 2013)

Kadar said:


> @GVH-Jon they changed the server once it was migrated, didn't tell the customers the IP address and nameservers. so downtime for customers


Seems like sending this info out before a merger/transfer/client-giveaway is the first thing you'd sort out.

"Hey guys, we're giving you away! Here is the info you need to make this a little less painful for you: ..."


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## drmike (Nov 23, 2013)

Nah just throw the customers in the chipper... I mean who is dumb enough to order such unbelievable deals from such unlikely superheros,  I mean 'yuts.

You know how many low end companies I've seen use the term "FUCK THE CUSTOMER"?  Tons, mostly in private.

Sad to say, but customers weren't handed off to competent folks, obviously.  New IPs, new nameservers.... WTF?  Why is that even necessary. Neither HVH nor GVH has their own allocations and just absorb random CC small blocks like most everyone over there does.   Nothing to update the SWiP and call it a day.

I bet HVH wants to shed customers inherited here.   Seen that skit too many times.   Customers not worth the account and setup.  Let them sit offline until the bitch and force allocation.

Call it f'up 101.  Teach me more.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Seems like sending this info out before a merger/transfer/client-giveaway is the first thing you'd sort out.
> 
> "Hey guys, we're giving you away! Here is the info you need to make this a little less painful for you: ..."


We included as much useful information as possible (including the nameservers of the server in which accounts were being migrated to) that we were provided. We didn't leave any information out that we knew of, and I am 100% sure of that.

Anything further has to be addressed to Hudson Valley Host unfortunately as that's as far as I am able to be of assistance :unsure:


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 23, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> You guys here can all call me a man-child, a baby, or whatever -- but truthfully as I was writing the above response I feel I wrote it while I was psychologically and emotionally stressed and unstable, not knowing how to put the words together to express my emotions of how much grief, pain, sadness, and sorrow from this entire situation here. I think that I might of even shed a tear or two whilst I was writing, and honestly this is just one of those "I have to pour out all my emotions right now otherwise I'm going to have suicidal thoughts" moments.


I would definitely seek some help if you are having these thoughts of suicide. It is probably not that wise to say this either, notions that your remaining customers are still at risk. However I guess admitting it is the first step to treatment.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> I would definitely seek some help if you are having these thoughts of suicide. It is probably not that wise to say this either, notions that your remaining customers are still at risk. However I guess admitting it is the first step to treatment.


Thank You for your concern, however the suicidal thoughts statement was meant as a figure of speech, meaning that it would have drove me absolutely insane and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't reply.


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## Francisco (Nov 23, 2013)

> Placing our srv1 and srv2 clients on our SSD-based cloud infrastructure wouldn't be economically feasible for us because it would significantly damage our profit margins unless we raise pricing (which we are not willing to do)


And yet you offer unlimited disk/bandwidth offers on said 'SSD based cloud'.

The best part is I think you and the "HostNun" are getting your milk from the exact same cow.

Now, with that being said, I've not read your TOS at all to see what limits are imposed on the unlimited diskspace. It's very much possible you allow no backup storage, no large files, & no streaming media of any sort, keeping your actual usage quite low.

Francisco


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## Mun (Nov 23, 2013)

Hmmm there new cloud hosting has unlimited data and mysql.... I wonder if they will accept a database that is 24 gigs in size and growing by 24 gigs/day, which will end up around 1 tb in size :3?

Mun


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## Francisco (Nov 23, 2013)

Mun said:


> Hmmm there new cloud hosting has unlimited data and mysql.... I wonder if they will accept a database that is 24 gigs in size and growing by 24 gigs/day, which will end up around 1 tb in size :3?
> 
> Mun


You monster.

Francisco


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 23, 2013)

Mun said:


> Hmmm there new cloud hosting has unlimited data and mysql.... I wonder if they will accept a database that is 24 gigs in size and growing by 24 gigs/day, which will end up around 1 tb in size :3?
> 
> Mun


Current TOS read as if there is no limit aside from ram/cpu and using the account as a backup. Go for it.


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## Francisco (Nov 23, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> Current TOS read as if there is no limit aside from ram/cpu and using the account as a backup. Go for it.


That's actually very reasonable but it's going to bite them when some wanna-be-redtube signs up and hoards a couple hundred gigs.

Francisco


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## Mun (Nov 23, 2013)

Francisco said:


> You monster.
> 
> 
> Francisco


Indeed Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhaha XD.



Francisco said:


> That's actually very reasonable but it's going to bite them when some wanna-be-redtube signs up and hoards a couple hundred gigs.
> 
> 
> Francisco


But but but but but, it is very unique data that I am data mining and have running on a dedicated server . 

Please Fran, can I can I can I ?

Mun


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

Mun you're more than welcome to try us out  We got plenty of space available.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 23, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> Mun you're more than welcome to try us out  We got plenty of space available.


Except for the space unavailable to your customers you got rid of.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> Except for the space unavailable to your customers you got rid of.


Our old customers that were transferred away are still more than welcome to purchase a cloud hosting plan and request to be transferred back over to us. In fact, we've actually been contacted a few times from our old customers regarding this and I've told them the same exact thing -- they're more than welcome back. In addition to that, Hudson Valley Host is honoring the same pricing and same disk space/bandwidth allocations for clients that have been transferred over meaning that they still can use all the space that they've purchased with us.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 23, 2013)

Woa

So its actually a worse situation than we all think.



GVH-Jon said:


> Mun you're more than welcome to try us out  We got plenty of space available.


Here you directly confirming that you basically told your old customers to piss off even though space is available, because they had no value.



GVH-Jon said:


> First edit
> 
> Our old customers that were transferred away are still more than welcome to purchase a cloud hosting plan and request to be transferred back over to us. In fact, we've actually been contacted a few times from our old customers regarding this and I've told them the same exact thing -- they're more than welcome back.
> 
> ...


This is now stating that those customers you told to piss off are more than welcome back as long as they are valuable again.

What kind of twisted game are you playing with people?

edit



> In addition to that, Hudson Valley Host is honoring the same pricing and same disk space/bandwidth allocations for clients that have been transferred over meaning that they still can use all the space that they've purchased with us.


No shit, they value them as customers unlike you did.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

I mean this in the nicest way possible, Rogan; please do not put words in my mouth.

If you have fully read what I've posted in my previous posts regarding why customers were transferred over, you would understand what I'm trying to say. It's not the *clients* that are not valuable, it's the *legacy plans* and the *old platform *that are not valuable. No matter how much we loved our clients, they had to go because our Code of Ethics prevented us from modifying their pricing and changing their plans. We love our *clients* which is why we'd be more than happy to have them back -- but the *legacy plans and old platform* .. there's no way they're coming back.


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## scv (Nov 23, 2013)

I don't mean to pick nits but what kind of "Code of Ethics" prefers terminating clients opposed to offering them an upgrade? You could even give them a discount to compensate for the deprecation of your legacy plans and platform.

Was there any real reason you needed to ditch them so rapidly?


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

scv said:


> I don't mean to pick nits but what kind of "Code of Ethics" prefers terminating clients opposed to offering them an upgrade? You could even give them a discount to compensate for the deprecation of your legacy plans and platform.
> 
> Was there any real reason you needed to ditch them so rapidly?


It wasn't a decision that was made quickly. We've been considering it for weeks before we actually executed the decision.

We believe that it is unethical to have someone pay for a certain plan and basically force them to upgrade to another plan, regardless if it's discounted. I have already provided the reasons for why we are no longer supporting our srv1 and srv2 legacy plans in my previous posts, and Hudson Valley Host was willing to honor the plans that we offered. We believe that it was the only ethical and moral solution to transfer them over to a better home where they will be able to be hosted on an infrastructure that can support our now-deprecated plans and prices without compromise.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 23, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> It wasn't a decision that was made quickly. We've been considering it for weeks before we actually executed the decision.


It wasn't a decision that was made quickly. We've been considering it for weeks before we actually executed the customer. - FIXED


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> It wasn't a decision that was made quickly. We've been considering it for weeks before we actually executed the customer. - FIXED


That would be your personal opinion, Rogan, and thank you for expressing your thought. It's more than appreciated and taken into consideration. You have a right to exercise your right of free speech, who am I but only a single ordinary person to stop you.


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## TSS - Conor (Nov 23, 2013)

Moved to HudsonValleyHost. Goodluck clients; we'll need it!


Oversold node.
Staff who don't have a clue and are poorly trained.
Staff who don't have the access they need; relying on a boss who is never around.
Poor network providers.
The list goes on.

GreenValueHost has made a mistake here. Why get rid of clients who did nothing wrong. Surely they could have structured their new approach and kept their clients.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 23, 2013)

TSS - Conor said:


> Moved to HudsonValleyHost. Goodluck clients; we'll need it!
> 
> 
> Oversold node.
> ...


I explained everything in my previous posts. Please read them before attempting to make any criticism.


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## drmike (Nov 24, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> We included as much useful information as possible (including the nameservers of the server in which accounts were being migrated to) that we were provided. We didn't leave any information out that we knew of, and I am 100% sure of that.
> 
> Anything further has to be addressed to Hudson Valley Host unfortunately as that's as far as I am able to be of assistance :unsure:


Jon, fine.   You say you did and I am not going to challenge that.  

Here's the deal pal, if you gave a crap about your customers, you would have "upgraded" them to your new "cloud" alternative that has replaced the cPanel.    You would have sucked up any price issue and honored your contract/agreement.

I've bought all sorts of products cheap to expensive.  Sometimes things break, didn't work right, etc.   I've had products replaced while under warranty period with more expensive products at the loss to the manufacturer.   That's what real businesses do, those that are legitimate and those that actually care about / want customers.   I don't expect you to get that point since you are still wet behind the ears.  Remember that I mentioned it.

The failure here is in basic math and playing with the exploitation factor.  How many imaginary oversell ratios you can have before being caught holding people's valuables but with an empty vault.   Yeah I expect oversell, but it should be illegal.  Any company using term unlimited should be fined massively.   Any company caught mass overselling should face consequences.

Funny little thing I thought of earlier... I wonder how many companies here, your company included, are bondable?  I am betting not many.


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## TSS - Conor (Nov 24, 2013)

I worked for HudsonValleyHost. It's more the truth than criticism.


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## mikho (Nov 24, 2013)

drmike said:


> Here's the deal pal, if you gave a crap about your customers, you would have "upgraded" them to your new "cloud" alternative that has replaced the cPanel. You would have sucked up any price issue and honored your contract/agreement.


Even if it ment that the company would go under?
Didn't know it was a charity (stealing the topic from another thread).


On a side note, I'm sure things could have been delt with in another "better" way but what is done, is done. We could go on beating the dead horse but it will not change anyhing.


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## drmike (Nov 24, 2013)

We are talking about cPanel and a whopping what? 2 servers?

If 2 servers are going to bankrupt a company, then that isn't a company.


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## InertiaNetworks-John (Nov 24, 2013)

drmike said:


> We are talking about cPanel and a whopping what? 2 servers? If 2 servers are going to bankrupt a company, then that isn't a company.


Valid point.


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## DomainBop (Nov 24, 2013)

drmike said:


> We are talking about cPanel and a whopping what? 2 servers? If 2 servers are going to bankrupt a company, then that isn't a company.



We're talking about a company that 1 month ago was in a financial crisis because a transfer from their bank to their PayPal account took a few extra days...



> GVH said "We were in a financial crisis at the time of our corporation renewal due to an issue with Stripe and the bank, however we are financially stable now"



the "crisis" http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1313825


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 24, 2013)

PayPal has the 'instant transfer' feature. If I have a 0 balance in PayPal. I can pay any invoice via PayPal. PayPal basically initiates a ACH and fronts the cash.

So its bull that he is saying he has to fund the account first. Basically he just had no money available.

Though, I am not sure if you need anything special for the instant transfer feature, perhaps does not have the proper setup.

It should also be noted that he is talking about using the card instead, why not just hook the card up to PayPal.. or just use the card instead.

On a tangent Its always wise to use one account to pay out from for accounting purposes so really the best thing to do is just not use PayPal for outgoing (im bad about this) Its just one less thing to do on accounting day specially if you have splits like half payed from PP and half from a bank (ugh).

Most of the time if someone does not want to use a CC its because funds are low and are scared whoever they pay will subscribe the charge card.


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## InertiaNetworks-John (Nov 24, 2013)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> PayPal has the 'instant transfer' feature. If I have a 0 balance in PayPal. I can pay any invoice via PayPal. PayPal basically initiates a ACH and fronts the cash.
> 
> So its bull that he is saying he has to fund the account first. Basically he just had no money available.
> 
> Though, I am not sure if you need anything special for the instant transfer feature, perhaps does not have the proper setup.


You have to have a CC on file for them to front the cash.


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## mikho (Nov 25, 2013)

drmike said:


> We are talking about cPanel and a whopping what? 2 servers?If 2 servers are going to bankrupt a company, then that isn't a company.


cPanel puts openvz in the shade when it comes to overselling. What if you would loose $2/customer/month that you "upgraded" and you oversell like your favourite subject?
Without a bottomless sack of money that would bring almost anyone to over the edge.


I'm not saying that I agree with what happened. But I can understand why it ended like it did.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 25, 2013)

InertiaNetworks-John said:


> You have to have a CC on file for them to front the cash.


Exactly. And we don't have a CC attached to our corporate PayPal account. Nice try, Rogan.

@DomainBop - Yes and we're open about admitting it. I would rather be homeless and live in a box than have GreenValueHost collapse due to financial issues. If we were in a more _extreme_ "crisis", our management would have each chipped in personal funds until everything is sorted.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 25, 2013)

Nice try for what?

Is fairly easy to add the card, and then you get access to instant transfer from bank > PayPal.


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## SkylarM (Nov 25, 2013)

A debit card associated with the bank account you already have on file is enough to meet the requirements for the instant paypal transfers.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 25, 2013)

We didn't think that we needed a card, but thank you guys for the useful information. Highly appreciated.


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## trewq (Nov 25, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> We didn't think that we needed a card, but thank you guys for the useful information. Highly appreciated.


You can't seriously be saying that having a marstercard/visa would not be beneficial to your business.


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## GVH-Jon (Nov 25, 2013)

trewq said:


> You can't seriously be saying that having a marstercard/visa would not be beneficial to your business.


Lance told me he's looking into getting us one in the near future. As of now we don't have a corporate card.


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## WSWD (Nov 26, 2013)

GVH-Jon said:


> Lance told me he's looking into getting us one in the near future. As of now we don't have a corporate card.


You didn't get a debit card with your corporate bank account?  Do you actually have a corporate account?


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## SPINIKR-RO (Nov 26, 2013)

Some banks these days run a credit check for a debit card with logo.


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