# LowEndTalk Thoughts



## Mun (May 26, 2013)

So, I am now apart of 5~ communities. (http://www.gaming-servers.net/ http://www.lowendhelp.com/ http://www.vpsboard.com/ http://webhostrally.com/ http://www.lowendtalk.com/ ) and I do have to say that I am less inclined to sit around waiting for the fun of the OLD let to blow up.

That being said, the things I see happening to LET now aren't promising. mpkossen closes every thread he can find that is being ~offtopic. Everything is being funneled to the cest pit. The activity that used to be at LET isn't there, and nor is it here, or any other LE type place.

Here on VPSboard it has been CC hate realm, with no opposition as such things just blow up, and out of control. 

I guess all in all, I'm just trying to say that, LE* has gotten really sluggish, and I don't think it will ever recover. I wish you all the best, but I think I should just say good bye now as I think many of you will also soon leave.

Best of wishes,

Mun


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## A Jump From Let (May 26, 2013)

I've wished if LEA has left domains under his ownership, and handed everything else, that wouldn't require him work or responsibility anymore.

But I guess vpsboard is the true v4, and is the approved place by LEA to live in if that matters    



LEA said:


> It's good that a new site has been setup for the refugees. May the spirit lives on.



I believe it's able to stay.


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)

*@**Mun*,  - I am trying to build a place for those who won't come here (maybe as a bridge). I've called it BudgeHostingTalk.com - The design is inspired from the old LET before it mutated into this mess, however it functions very differently from that and is content and community oriented. Basically the community decides the content that they like via the voting system. Remember old Digg? Something like that. I am also thinking about buying a commercial theme for it, but so far I haven't found anything that is worth buying. Any suggestions are welcome.


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## HalfEatenPie (May 26, 2013)

As much as I hate to say it.  This is the reason why I left LowEndTalk, but I don't believe vpsBoard will follow that route. 

Personally, I find vpsBoard a great alternative to it.  Granted it just started and I honestly think you should stick around a bit longer watch it mature.  Expecting what LET was straight out of the gates for vpsBoard in my opinion is a huge mistake.  We're two different communities focused on two different aspects of the industry.  While yes majority of the members here are refugees from LowEndTalk I don't see vpsBoard being restricted to those restrictions LET had.  

Regardless, removing yourself from the equation isn't really an answer to the problem.  If you want to make a community focus on the minimalism qualities of a VPS and learning how to build that then start discussions about it.  Removing yourself from it is basically an admittance of defeat.  

LET will never really be the same.  vpsBoard will never be the alternative to LET.  But this is your community.  This is a platform you all can use to discuss about anything you wish related to VPS and the industry.  Use that right that we provide to everyone to inspire others to focus on what you feel passionate about.  This is what vpsBoard is about.  

In terms of vpsBoard being a place for CC haters, I disagree.  And for those of you who are reading this who are ColoCrossing haters, lets leave the entire baggage at LET.  Clean start here.  What they did at LET was a mistake, and hopefully they'll move on from such actions.  Yes I personally dislike ColoCrossing, but not because of what has happened but for other reasons of which I'm perfectly fine dropping and starting new.


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## Francisco (May 26, 2013)

LET had "a lot of post" because it usually broke into mass spamming of certain threads or even spam fests of meme images.

Take any of the large threads and see how much of it is good convo's and how much of it is filler.

Now, don't get me wrong, back in our hay day we all remember the badassoverhere image that sent ol' Chris up a wall. The problem is that was happening all the time with all different people.

Francisco


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@Mun*,  - I am trying to build a place for those who won't come here (maybe as a bridge). I've called it BudgeHostingTalk.com - The design is inspired from the old LET before it mutated into this mess, however it functions very differently from that and is content and community oriented. Basically the community decides the content that they like via the voting system. Remember old Digg? Something like that. I am also thinking about buying a commercial theme for it, but so far I haven't found anything that is worth buying. Any suggestions are welcome.



Im sorry, but save your money. There is already WAY too many LET pop ups, me included.


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## jarland (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> Here on VPSboard it has been CC hate realm



Now, I'm not being dramatic. Let's establish that first and foremost. You brought this up, I'm responding. That isn't for your benefit, that's for people who keep telling me "Dude you need to just chill." I'm chilled.

I think you should cut people some slack on this. Consider the events that made this forum blow up. No matter what anyone says, the leadership of LEB/LET knew and lied to everyone there about who was pulling the strings. We all hoped that we weren't seeing what we thought we were seeing when EndOfReality left CC and had their history wiped from both sites. We all sort of "knew" but we didn't really *know*. Along comes someone who exposes it all and the site becomes the punching bag for everyone angry over the fact that our *community* had suddenly become a *business* and that *business* was being operated through lies. This wasn't about an NDA. LEB was not a corporate entity. We knew CC was collecting ad revenue for months.

Now with that in perspective, Curtis got lucky to be in the right place at the right time and pick up the people who were fed up. *Of course* people are going to be a little angry that the things they tried to convince themselves weren't true, because they trusted the word of certain people, turned out to be exactly what their worst theory concluded. This place isn't a hate club for Colocrossing, this is a place where people migrated to when they felt taken advantage of by colocrossing (and yes, those without adblock provided a benefit to CC, we were used for corporate profit gain no matter how you spin it). There's going to be some conversation about it. My advice: Stop letting it bother you.



Mun said:


> I don't think it will ever recover



I agree completely and here's why:



Mun said:


> mpkossen closes every thread he can find



A few key people think I have it out for CC and LET, truth is I'm just a tad bitter that a website I thoroughly enjoyed and considered to be one of a kind was transformed from a community like the old story of slowly boiling a frog. There's no need to have it out for LET, the staff seems to be intent on destroying it all by themselves.


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)

Francisco said:


> LET had "a lot of post" because it usually broke into mass spamming of certain threads or even spam fests of meme images. Take any of the large threads and see how much of it is good convo's and how much of it is filler. Now, don't get me wrong, back in our hay day we all remember the badassoverhere image that sent ol' Chris up a wall. The problem is that was happening all the time with all different people. Francisco


*@**Francisco*, For the longest time LET's fuel source was drama. Since the "creme of the crop" so to speak has moved over here there isn't much going on over there. I liked the discussion oriented style of Vanilla, but I couldn't care less about the drama. A week ago I was talking to Curtis and said that I would set up LowEndTalkin' as a joke, however people actually joined but I did it in such a rush that nothing worked right (Apache + Varnish). I've set it up again (this time properly) as BudgetHostingTalk.com and implemented it so that those who join can vote for the content that they want (like old Digg). I don't really want to run a forum, don't have the time to do so. I think it's a nice middle ground for those who don't want to take the plunge and move over here.

LET staff (whoever that currently is) does a pretty poor job at running the forum: it is buggy, runs on shared hosting at Vanillaforums.com, the moderation job and applied censorship is piss poor (look here for example: https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/10762/is-let-dying-slowly#latest ) and generally the current look of the forum is an eye sore (talk about the lack of web design skills). And one more thing: LET doesn't listen to the community at all. It may be to late when they realize that all they're left with is a domain name, a hosting bill from Vanillaforums.com and a database.


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> I don't really want to run a forum


This begs the question of... then why are you?  Sorry, but if that were actually true, you 1) wouldn't be running it, and 2) wouldn't be calling attention to it (down to the URL so people know where to find it) several times a day.

Mun had a decent point, one that I agree with.  There are simply too many "communities" trying to act as life rafts to a sinking ship, and the motives seem to be anything but altruistic.  I'm here because Curtis introduced me to this place well before the LET drama started.  For awhile things were great, but now it seems that I can't go a whole day without being (sometimes not so) gently prodded towards "Yet another LET clone".   



HalfEatenPie said:


> vpsBoard will never be the alternative to LET.  But this is your community.


^  Cannot stress that enough.  A bit of advice for the group of you that seem determined to figurehead a forum:  you _CANNOT_ create a community.  The most you can do is lay groundwork, and see what kind of community builds itself.  "Just like old LET"?  Give me a break.  You cannot recreate a particular 'family' simply by specific type of messaging board  with an archaic theme.

Want to run a community?  That's fine, but do it honestly.  Provide the habitat, and let the community grow.  You *WON'T* get the kind of community you want;  you have to learn to enjoy what you get.  But stop trying to "provide refuge"... there are enough buzzards out there already, and now instead of scavenging from LET's corpse you're trying to pull active members from a different community.


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

Okay, a few clarifications. (I'm not per say leaving, just admitting that I will be seeing a bunch of you get drawn out of the LET/VpsBoard arena.)

Two, What I am saying is that, what has occurred has caused many people far and wide to leave the LET arena and as such I don't expect in any near time for any one place to take full control back over.

Three, I'm not saying anything bad about VPSboard, what I am saying is that LET universe as a whole has been damaged and harmed.

Four, ads really do have a place, like it or not I turned off ad block to help find good deals, because there is so many hosts.

Five, I would love some action at lowendhelp.com/forums/ (not farming) but as it seems, VPSBoard took the crop, thus I'm stating there is already way too many different forums for the LEB universe.

Six, i'm afraid (not pointing at vpsboard) that each group of hosts will make a separate network of forums. Shovenose has one, Johnston at bluevm has one, now Marcm has one as well. I really can't stress enough that LEA had one thing right, and that was that *no* VPS company had control of LET. It worked great, until that was broken. 

Seven, like it or not the hate of CC has been dropped here, meaning like it or not (vpsboard is currently the CC hate club) and it is pointed out to be. (Non-CC) threads etc can confirm this. 

All in All, VPSboard is great, but people are going to get distracted and leave because there is too great of a selection, and the inactivity of LET has made people outright leave, and not notice VPSboard.

Mun


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)




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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> now Marcm has one as well


*@**Mun*, Sorry for the double post: I don't want to separate my forum from vpsBoard, however I have very specific goals in mind for it like user generated and controlled content, the encouraging and sponsorship of Open Source developers, discussion oriented boards, sharing of knowledge between providers in their own area (board), and so on. So it's not just some random forum. And no, I don't intend to let drama run its course on it until it becomes the main attraction.

But keep this in mind:

1) I will always be a member of this community. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I know I tried to save what was left of LET.

2) No one is forced to join.

3) I have invited folks from here to join and help out with the forum. Folks like Curtis who also runs vpsBoard, and others. People need to realize that not everyone will come straight here and that many folks from LET just want their old forum back without all the baggage and the crap.



Mun said:


> All in All, VPSboard is great, but people are going to get distracted and leave because there is too great of a selection, and the inactivity of LET has made people outright leave, and not notice VPSboard.


Lol, I already feel like some people are fighting for members for their communities like Heaven and Hell for our souls.


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## jarland (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> vpsboard is currently the CC hate club



If you say so. LET was the summer host hate club then I guess. Just because people post about it frequently doesn't mean that's the focus of a forum. You're judging a community based on a high volume of discussion about something that was/is currently relevant to nearly everyone posting here. If that is the case in a year when CC hasn't tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes then maybe you can judge it on that.

On 9/11 all television stations were talking about the events of that day. Do you currently call every television channel the 9/11 channel? People talk about what is currently relevant and on their minds. Big deal? You think you can run a forum where people want to actually post when you won't allow them to post about recent events that were relevant to their interests? I wish you the best of luck in that.

No hard feelings, I don't mean this personally. But you've been posting here for a while now about how bad this place is and if someone else doesn't see it as you being bitter that vpsboard took a lot of new members while your forum didn't, I will take back the accusation. Again, it's not personal, but you know I don't filter myself.


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@[member='Aldryic C'bo*


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

jarland said:


> If you say so. LET was the summer host hate club then I guess. Just because people post about it frequently doesn't mean that's the focus of a forum. You're judging a community based on a high volume of discussion about something that was/is currently relevant to nearly everyone posting here. If that is the case in a year when CC hasn't tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes then maybe you can judge it on that.
> 
> On 9/11 all television stations were talking about the events of that day. Do you currently call every television channel the 9/11 channel? People talk about what is currently relevant and on their minds. Big deal? You think you can run a forum where people want to actually post when you won't allow them to post about recent events that were relevant to their interests? I wish you the best of luck in that.
> 
> No hard feelings, I don't mean this personally. But you've been posting here for a while now about how bad this place is and if someone else doesn't see it as you being bitter that vpsboard took a lot of new members while your forum didn't, I will take back the accusation. Again, it's not personal, but you know I don't filter myself.




It isn't just the discussions, it is the comments as well. People even stated "Americans" were "mad" about 9/11, since we took our every moment to note it. Has it changed now, yes it has, but as of right now I am claiming that VPSboard is a hate zone for CC.


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## SeriesN (May 26, 2013)

Can I have my own forum? I will only talk about unicorns and ponies. Promise. 

I love seeing how everyone wants to copy someones idea but can't be bothered to come up with something new. Stop being a sheep and be the human you are


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

SeriesN said:


> Can I have my own forum? I will only talk about unicorns and ponies. Promise.
> 
> I love seeing how everyone wants to copy someones idea but can't be bothered to come up with something new. Stop being a sheep and be the human you are



I am, I am stating my mind


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)




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## Francisco (May 26, 2013)

Church Of Pony 

Francisco


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> I am not making any assumptions... You just got all worked up again.


You honestly think you're worth me doing more than raising a brow?  Get back with me when you start embracing reality.  Just because you wish to claim something does not make it true outside your little fantasy world.  Until then, kindly waste someone else's time, I have better things to do than listen to someone attempting the Fabozzi method of discourse <3.


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)




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## Aldryic C'boas (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> What is slightly ironic and funny is you kinda are both doing it


Sometimes it can't be helped XD

Back on topic though... meant to ask earlier but it slipped my mind:



Mun said:


> I wish you all the best, but I think I should just say good bye now as I think many of you will also soon leave.


You're leaving VPSB?  Or just a good-bye to LE* in general?


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)




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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)




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## Francisco (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> The latter for your question. I'm not per say leaving, but I know a bunch of people already have. I might leave accidentally, but I still wanted to give everyone at least a good bye wave. You guys are some really great people. I'm poking you guys like Francisco, CVPS_chris (though I know you guys find that debatable), Johnston @ bluevm, Ishaq, SeriesN, Zen, Pubcrawler, and much much more. Even though you might all not be Tech centric you have taught me a TON.
> 
> Mun


/me bows

By all means, continue taking part as you can  I'll stick around short of Curtis selling this place 

Francisco


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> CVPS_chris (though I know you guys find that debatable)


Eh, honestly if you get him away from talking about VPSes (or tech in general) he's a decent enough guy.  That persona we're all so familiar with just seems to overwhelm any instance in which he does act... well, decently.


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)




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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@[member='Aldryic C'bo*


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)




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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

One thing that is shitty, as that you guys take this place as virtual, and act sorta like dicks (no i'm not pointing fingers, though the person you just thought is your "dick"). I want to stress that what happens on the internet doesn't stay on the internet like "Las Vegas". What you do here is your companies impression, being a dick can in the end may cause people to not sign up with you. (it might be better to just browse the forums instead of posting on Harsh topics)

Mun


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## Marc M. (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> One thing that is shitty, as that you guys take this place as virtual, and act sorta like dicks (no i'm not pointing fingers, though the person you just thought is your "dick"). I want to stress that what happens on the internet doesn't stay on the internet like "Las Vegas". What you do here is your companies impression, being a dick can in the end may cause people to not sign up with you. (it might be better to just browse the forums instead of posting on Harsh topics) Mun


*@**Mun* Many forums don't provide closed areas for certain topics, that only logged in members can see, especially for threads in Off-Topic. Almost any forum script supports this, including Vanilla, IPB, XenForo and so on.

These days customers either sign up because they have a hobby project or to bring their business online. They like to read reviews. If customers would spend their nights reading forums and base their decisions solely on what X Y Z said in a heated debate then I can think of at least one or two providers who wouldn't have any customers left. However I think that this is what happens on most forums, not just hosting related. It has something to do with the entertainment to boredom ratio of the participants and viewers alike. Granted, this is so much more civilized than LET ever was.


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@Mun* Many forums don't provide closed areas for certain topics, that only logged in members can see, especially for threads in Off-Topic. Almost any forum script supports this, including Vanilla, IPB, XenForo and so on.
> 
> These days customers either sign up because they have a hobby project or to bring their business online. They like to read reviews. If customers would spend their nights reading forums and base their decisions solely on what X Y Z said in a heated debate then I can think of at least one or two providers who wouldn't have any customers left. However I think that this is what happens on most forums, not just hosting related. It has something to do with the entertainment to boredom ratio of the participants and viewers alike. Granted, this is so much more civilized than LET ever was.



However, you can take it too far. Sometimes yes customers will see it and not care, but if it keeps going on and on, they may go through a gilt trip, and move somewhere else.

Mun


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## jarland (May 26, 2013)

marcm said:


> If customers would spend their nights reading forums and base their decisions solely on what X Y Z said in a heated debate


 

Personally I'd rather not have a single client who would choose their services by this. Not a single one. I don't want clients who just glide with the wind from host to host every month or two. I mean following that logic as a provider would mean that the moment I step outside my door, open my window, or send a message on the internet that I should strip myself of personality. I'm a Christian, I work at a church. Does that statement mean that I can't host atheists? Should I hide who I am because someone might not like it? You don't have to like everything I say and do. If you think you do, you're not serious about the services that you want to provide and therefore you won't be a client of anyone's for very long anyway.

Been wanting to get that one off my chest for a while, thanks for setting me up for it


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## Mun (May 26, 2013)

jarland said:


> Personally I'd rather not have a single client who would choose their services by this. Not a single one. I don't want clients who just glide with the wind from host to host every month or two. I mean following that logic as a provider would mean that the moment I step outside my door, open my window, or send a message on the internet that I should strip myself of personality. I'm a Christian, I work at a church. Does that statement mean that I can't host atheists? Should I hide who I am because someone might not like it? You don't have to like everything I say and do. If you think you do, you're not serious about the services that you want to provide and therefore you won't be a client of anyone's for very long anyway.
> 
> Been wanting to get that one off my chest for a while, thanks for setting me up for it



Sometimes, things are best left unsaid. 

Mun


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## jarland (May 26, 2013)

Mun said:


> Sometimes, things are best left unsaid.



I'll agree and telling someone that discussion that is irrelevant to system administration, billing, or support somehow reflects on their services is one of them. I take it as little more than a tactic to try to coerce people into shutting up when they're saying things that you don't like, and it's not just you, it's a growing theme at other sites too.


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## wlanboy (May 27, 2013)

Mun said:


> Here on VPSboard it has been CC hate realm, with no opposition as such things just blow up, and out of control.


Well ... you might be right. The first week was all about punching someone lying on the ground. But that was one single week. And if you search for my posts you will see that I did say that this is not something I want to be part of. Single one with a bucket of water but hey don't call me part of the mob.

If you do not believe:

1,2,3,4,5,6.


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## Mun (May 27, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> Well ... you might be right. The first week was all about punching someone lying on the ground. But that was one single week. And if you search for my posts you will see that I did say that this is not something I want to be part of. Single one with a bucket of water but hey don't call me part of the mob.
> 
> If you do not believe:
> 
> 1,2,3,4,5,6.


I'm responsible for the CC hate as well, but that is because I didn't want an LET situation to become the norm.

Mun


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## wlanboy (May 27, 2013)

But was it really worth it?


In my opinion this has to stop now. Mods should do their job. I do not want to be part of a board that well ... wants to do things better but in fact is at least as bad as the evil it wants to fight.


In your eyes it is ok to hack/ddos/deface everyone because you do not like what he says or does?


Should that be the norm?


If this board wants to be better everyone should be able to post - even Chris or CC - without being kicked to death with the same accusations again and again.


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## Mun (May 27, 2013)

In your eyes it is ok to hack/ddos/deface everyone because you do not like what he says or does?
Should that be the norm?

No

If this board wants to be better everyone should be able to post - even Chris or CC - without being kicked to death with the same accusations again and again.

Agreed, but there should be the aisles allow it.

Mun


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## wlanboy (May 27, 2013)

So tell me the rules which will allow a second holy crusade against CC.


I mean everyone complains about all what they might have be done. Did they get enough? Or what should happen to them to fullfill your (not you in person but to all CC haters) bloodthirstiness?


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## MannDude (May 27, 2013)

I'm sure all the CC hate will die down soon. It's still fresh on a lot of people's minds. There are a handful of good companies that operate with some CC locations in the mix, so I most certainly do not want to see people/companies get treated poorly on here because they do business with CC. That's not what this place is for. It's okay to _educate_ members about the history if it comes up, but I don't want this place to just slander them.


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## MannDude (May 27, 2013)

But yeah, in regards to LET. It's already on a downward path. I don't think it'll ever cease to exist but it's quickly turning into a DigitalPoint/HF hybrid of a craphole. Can't post something off topic without it being closed and told to put into the cest pit. They still remove threads without explanation when asked. The whole $7/mo 'everything for nothing' price limit is ruining the industry with sub-par services and attracts some awful people who want more and more for less and less.


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## jarland (May 27, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> So tell me the rules which will allow a second holy crusade against CC.
> 
> 
> I mean everyone complains about all what they might have be done. Did they get enough? Or what should happen to them to fullfill your (not you in person but to all CC haters) bloodthirstiness?


On the other side, who decides when people should stop talking about something? Is there a universal standard for how long something is allowed to be fresh on one's mind? Should people not be allowed to be bitter? If not, what else do you dislike that we should also seek rules for? Perhaps I don't like 128mb VPS, can we ban those?


I'm obviously being ridiculous, because I think the notion that people should "get over it" on the time table of the first 3-5 people to say the words "get over it" is absurd. One time I didn't tighten an oil filter sufficiently and it popped off. I didn't hear the end of it for 2 months. Where were you guys to defend me? The level of importance of the situation is relative to the individual, so is the time it takes for bitterness to fade. Personally I'm working on it, but I almost want to rant about CC every day on every website for a year just to tick off the "get over it" crowd. My message is clear: You get over the fact that I'm not over it 


Anyway, that wasn't all directed at you wlanboy. I just think everyone running around talking about how everyone needs to "get over it" are the real drama queens now.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

jarland said:


> On the other side, who decides when people should stop talking about something? Is there a universal standard for how long something is allowed to be fresh on one's mind? Should people not be allowed to be bitter? If not, what else do you dislike that we should also seek rules for? Perhaps I don't like 128mb VPS, can we ban those?


A properly categorized forum... like this for example, would take care of that "who decides when people should stop talking about something?" problem. 128mb VPSs should definitively be banned. This is 2013 for crying out loud!


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

Something that I've fished out the Cest Pit from LET, the latest comment as of now:



> vRozenSch00n
> 3:48AM
> 
> Honestly, only LET member can access the Cest Pit and search engine will not index it.
> ...


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## mikho (May 27, 2013)

Entering late into the discussion causes me to create this long post...



marcm said:


> But keep this in mind:
> 
> 1) I will always be a member of this community. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I know I tried to save what was left of LET.
> 
> ...


I guess that the reasons for you starting the new forum is the exact same reasons most of the newly created forums have.

This will however have the exact opposite outcome, (remember this is nothing against you, I'm talking in general here) the members will scatter across multiple forums, creating smaller groups with different agendas (at least publicly).

Some will survive == get a great community, some will not == become an empty forum with almost no posts/threads at all.

LET will survive, probably not in the same shape and form as before. Members who had been around for a long time stopped posting, many because of the direction LET was heading towards. Some for other reasons..



jarland said:


> Personally I'd rather not have a single client who would choose their services by this. Not a single one. I don't want clients who just glide with the wind from host to host every month or two. I mean following that logic as a provider would mean that the moment I step outside my door, open my window, or send a message on the internet that I should strip myself of personality. I'm a Christian, I work at a church. Does that statement mean that I can't host atheists? Should I hide who I am because someone might not like it? You don't have to like everything I say and do. If you think you do, you're not serious about the services that you want to provide and therefore you won't be a client of anyone's for very long anyway.
> 
> Been wanting to get that one off my chest for a while, thanks for setting me up for it


This I agree upon, I have only been active in the VPS community since I found LEB/LET a couple of years ago. Before that my focus was with shared hosting.

I am one of the customers who will stay with a provider if the VPS is working for me (if the VPS is responsive when I use it. I don't care to measure dd speeds. The latency to my location is more important). Not how the provider talks on forums. Before I sign up with a provider I do take interest in their presence on forums, how they interact with the community. Never deciding based on one post, more an all-over attitude.

I also strongly believe in giving people a second chance. There are a few providers that had a style that I didn't agree with but as time goes by, the attitude changes and so does my feelings towards this provider.



Mun said:


> If this board wants to be better everyone should be able to post - even Chris or CC - without being kicked to death with the same accusations again and again.


As among friends (which is how I would like to think about the forum members) there will always be a bit of bickering, bringing up old stuff that has been discussed over and over again. When both sides, both the one dropping the comment and the person that the comment was intended for can accept it as the joke it most often is. Then we have a great community. It's when these types of disagreements (we have one in this thread already between Marcm and Aldryic) takes over that the community will have problems, if not dealt with immediately.

Taking the above example further, I would call it a non-issue.. just stop bringing it up and it will go away...



marcm said:


> 128mb VPSs should definitively be banned. This is 2013 for crying out loud!


I bought 2 new VPS from lowendspirit a couple of minutes ago. They are not dead, only hiding 

The main problem with low-mem installations are that developers stopped caring about memory usage a long time ago.

I've been working as a consultant for 5-6 years now, before that I was a windows developer and in-house tech for a company.

Every time, historically and even now when I speak to developers and raise the question about slow performance and optimization of THEIR software I get the response to upgrade the hardware... buy more memory, buy faster drives, get a second CPU.

I always return with the question that IF there is no performance boost, will they take the cost of the new hardware? Everytime I get 'No' as an answer. one can wonder why


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## mikho (May 27, 2013)

since my first post in this thread was so long, I write my conclusion here.

For me there hasn't been a CC 'hate', we have discussed the events on LET/LEB.

I personally fell no hatred towards either CC or any other that is/was involved with LET/LEB.

I do have lost my respect for Joel, but as said before, more then willing to give a second chance to earn my respect again. But i doubt he will even try.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

All I see is excuses and lame attempts at somehow saving what's left of that community (at the same time acting like they own it or something) by LEA and current LET management. The whole anonymity thing that LEA and Chief insisted on was crap. LEA was before I joined LET, but Chief was extremely ballsy when behind his keyboard and pixelated skull avatar. I mean what the hell was a guy doing with a hosting forum that wasn't passionate about it in the first place? I tell you what: at the first opportunity he decided to make a quick buck and run along.

I don't think that there is anything to drag on here,



mikho said:


> LET will survive, probably not in the same shape and form as before. Members who had been around for a long time stopped posting, many because of the direction LET was heading towards. Some for other reasons..


*@**mikho* By God, I hope it won't survive. With my little forum I am trying to offer what's left of the LET community something that they used to have: a simple discussion board. Ideally I would then channel them over here. Forums and community aren't the same thing. We can all be part of the same community and spread our agenda across several forums. As long as we stick together we are a community. The opposite example of that is WHT: it's a forum, not a community. People don't care about anything over there other than pursuing their own agenda. And we all know the results: sig spamming, penalty points for about anything, idiotic posts, and so on.


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## wlanboy (May 27, 2013)

jarland said:


> On the other side, who decides when people should stop talking about something?


You can talk about just anything you want. You can post everyday how CC sucks. But if someone you do not like post something ... well ... e.g. .... about cats ... and you jump into the thread to post that he is liar and CC sucks. Then I do have a problem with it.


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## mikho (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@mikho* By God, I hope it won't survive. With my little forum I am trying to offer what's left of the LET community something that they used to have: a simple discussion board. Ideally I would then channel them over here. Forums and community aren't the same thing. We can all be part of the same community and spread our agenda across several forums. As long as we stick together we are a community. The opposite example of that is WHT: it's a forum, not a community. People don't care about anything over there other than pursuing their own agenda. And we all know the results: sig spamming, penalty points for about anything, idiotic posts, and so on.


I hope it does survive and finds it's roots again. Then evolve into something better.

The LET that people tend to forget about is EXACTLY what you are trying to re-create.

Regarding the meaning/difference between forum and community, I understand your definition and I agree to most of it. 

A forum (like WHT, per your example) is still a community, but the members are there for different reasons.



wlanboy said:


> You can talk about just anything you want. You can post everyday how CC sucks. But if someone you do not like post something ... well ... e.g. .... about cats ... and you jump into the thread to post that he is liar and CC sucks. Then I do have a problem with it.


And this one of the reasons I like a traditional forum better then pushing everything off-topic into one thread. Even if there will be some kind of posting record (no of posts) but the users will have to read up of stuff that they are not interested.

That's why you need to specify a GREAT topic when creating new threads.


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## Naruto (May 27, 2013)

Mun said:


> So, I am now apart of 5~ communities. (http://www.gaming-servers.net/ http://www.lowendhelp.com/ http://www.vpsboard.com/ http://webhostrally.com/ http://www.lowendtalk.com/ ) and I do have to say that I am less inclined to sit around waiting for the fun of the OLD let to blow up.
> 
> That being said, the things I see happening to LET now aren't promising. mpkossen closes every thread he can find that is being ~offtopic. Everything is being funneled to the cest pit. The activity that used to be at LET isn't there, and nor is it here, or any other LE type place.
> 
> ...


You only made this thread to advertise and you know it.


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## TheLinuxBug (May 27, 2013)

Naruto said:


> You only made this thread to advertise and you know it.


The TL;DR of this thread:

*@*, while trying to convince us that he isn't specifically using this thread to advertise his forum, is using this thread to bash at vpsBoard and advertise his forum.  Seems to think because it is using the same software as LET that it can be a better replacement than vpsBoard because he runs it. *Hey buddy, this isn't LET* and honestly, though Curtis has 'allowed it', this whole thread seems like it is here to try and prove why vpsBoard can't be a replacement for LET for you and why you believe everyone should leave here and come to your forum (_*Which IMO is pretty rude and assumptive on your behalf*_).

*@Mun*, _*In the same breathe that he said he was leaving this community also decided to plug his own forum*_, then did about the same thing as *@* by listing reasons (CC Hate) that he doesn't like it here and then listing this as a reason people should leave all the new forums that popped up and should come use his forum. 

Now, I am not trying to censor you, and honestly seeing as *@MannDude*, has let this go, it is likely because he doesn't want to be seen as limiting your freedom of speech either, (what CC started doing to LET) so he has let you continue, _*most likely hoping someone like me would pop up and kindly ask you to stop the self promotion*_. One thing you have already gained here in this community is, this thread. Go try and make a thread like this on some other forums and let me know how long it stays up, especially if it doesn't align with their (business) agenda for the forum.  I am sure if a bunch of us showed up on your forum and started coming up with reasons why it just _has to suck_ and why people should come here (to vpsBoard), you would probably remove it or fight with them (like you have been doing here for seemingly no reason).

my 2 cents.

Cheers!


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## SeriesN (May 27, 2013)

TheLinuxBug said:


> Now, I am not trying to censor you, and honestly seeing as @MannDude, has let this go, it is likely because he doesn't want to be seen as limiting your freedom of speech either, (what CC started doing to LET) so he has let you continue, most likely hoping someone like me would pop up and kindly ask you to stop the self promotion. One thing you have already gained here in this community is, this thread. Go try and make a thread like this on some other forums and let me know how long it stays up, especially if it doesn't align with their (business) agenda for the forum.  I am sure if a bunch of us showed up on your forum and started coming up with reasons why it just has to suck and why people should come here (to vpsBoard), you would probably remove it or fight with them (like you have been doing here for seemingly no reason).


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## Mun (May 27, 2013)

Yeah, my site has 3 people which I am two of, any single person visiting the site will instantly go, NAhhhhh. and leave. 

So yeah i'm not plugging any of my sites.

What I am saying, is that expect the whole LE* area to shrink, as people get bored and leave. 

Mun


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

TheLinuxBug said:


> @marcm, while trying to convince us that he isn't specifically using this thread to advertise his forum, is using this thread to bash at vpsBoard and advertise his forum....





TheLinuxBug said:


> Now, I am not trying to censor you, and honestly seeing as @MannDude, has let this go...


*@**TheLinuxBug* I'm wondering if you're psychic or something that you know so well what me or @MannDude ar thinking. Sadly do, you won't score any brownie point with @MannDude over defending vpsBoard like a brave little soldier because he knows pretty well what it is that I was trying to do. I'd say that it's pretty safe to relax now. What I'm trying to tell you is that you're being overzealous and overprotective and this really isn't the case.



Mun said:


> So yeah i'm not plugging any of my sites.


*@**Mun* he is just being overprotective and overzealous. Sometimes people do this in a community in order to try and stand out. For some bizarre reason they think that with one or two statements they can influence the perception and will of an entire community.

*@**TheLinuxBug* here is something to think about: if I really wanted to seriously plug in a forum, then sure as hell it wouldn't be some low end alternative. No Sir, I would set up something that's at least comparable to vpsBoard and then I would try to plug it. But then what would I tell people? "Come join a forum that's about the same thing as your last forum, only it's running on a different platform with a different skin..."

I got about as much love for LET as *@[member='Aldryic C'bo*


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

Okay, so after typing up my last reply *@**TheLinuxBug* and *@[member='Aldryic C'bo*


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## SeriesN (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> Okay, so after typing up my last reply *@TheLinuxBug* and *@[member='Aldryic C'bo*


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## Reece-DM (May 27, 2013)

It's noticeable that activity has dropped on LET, I don't see this place having much more activity either at the moment in time. If anything this is the better place I've joined compared to those other options which were created when LET got fucked up' I see more of the mature providers here and much different offers than the LET way of things.

Time will tell, I'll stay apart of this forum providing it stays active I would suggest improving the skin etc soon though it don't look very attractive and you guys could make this place a lot better.

Time will tell, with anything but i'd say VPSboard has had a good start and by the looks of things has solid backing

my 2 cents


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

SeriesN said:


> Why you have to be so dramatic? Just do what ever the hell you want and be done with it. I mean, you are an adult and this is YOUR domain.


*@**SeriesN* I'm not being dramatic. I was just asking for their opinion.


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## MartinD (May 27, 2013)

I think you should chill  You have your own forum, which is great, but we don't need to hear about it here in this thread. Lets keep the crap that went on over at LET stay there.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

MartinD said:


> I think you should chill  You have your own forum, which is great, but we don't need to hear about it here in this thread. Lets keep the crap that went on over at LET stay there.


*@**MartinD* I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.


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## SeriesN (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@MartinD* I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.


Oh no! Oh my gawd, you are going to complain to his boss so he gets fired?0_0. how could you?

Gee, really mature. Ehem ehem. You are taking everything too seriously. Chillux.


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## MartinD (May 27, 2013)

Not sure how many threads you think I've closed? 1 was in the for sale section because, uh, the items were sold. That's it, actually. I haven't closed any others. I haven't yet intervened in anything as a moderator - no-where have I come in with a big fat boot and starting shoving any weight around. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start accusing others.

Lastly, you can say whatever you like to Curtis. We've known each other for a loooong time so it will make zero difference to me. He is far from being my boss - I'm here to help out where I can and ensure things stay on track.

If you feel that strongly about vpsBoard not being for you... the close button is only a click away.


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## HalfEatenPie (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> @MartinD I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.



Hey there marcm!  

If you could please expand upon which threads were closed that you have issues with please let us know and I guarantee you we can all give you explanations as to why they were removed!  I personally have tried to state why a certain thread is being closed before closing it.  

I don't see MartinD turning into a mpkoseen and probably discussing more directly with him about your issues related to him is probably a better way to do it.  I mean this seriously isn't a battle of who is better friends with MannDude.  

*Edit:* I've probably closed more threads than MartinD.  Majority of them are when they're reported by either the original poster or when the moderation team agrees that it has gone off topic from what it was supposed to be.  It's all in the logs.  I hope that clears a few things up!


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

MartinD said:


> Not sure how many threads you think I've closed? 1 was in the for sale section because, uh, the items were sold. That's it, actually. I haven't closed any others. I haven't yet intervened in anything as a moderator - no-where have I come in with a big fat boot and starting shoving any weight around. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start accusing others. Lastly, you can say whatever you like to Curtis. We've known each other for a loooong time so it will make zero difference to me. He is far from being my boss - I'm here to help out where I can and ensure things stay on track. If you feel that strongly about vpsBoard not being for you... the close button is only a click away.


*@**MartinD* who needs to chill now? Defending the forum is an admirable quality, being overzealous is not. I've tried to tell you this, but if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Curtis and what he has to say about me and then you may understand where I'm coming from. That's all I meant when I said that I was going to talk to Curtis.


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## MartinD (May 27, 2013)

I'm perfectly chilled  I'm simply saying if you don't like it, you have the choice to move on, nothing more, nothing less.


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## SeriesN (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@MartinD* who needs to chill now? Defending the forum is an admirable quality, being overzealous is not. I've tried to tell you this, but if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Curtis and what he has to say about me and then you may understand where I'm coming from. That's all I meant when I said that I was going to talk to Curtis.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

MartinD said:


> I'm perfectly chilled  I'm simply saying if you don't like it, you have the choice to move on, nothing more, nothing less.


*@**MartinD* I joined this place pretty early on and I think I'll stay.


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## mikho (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@MartinD*. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community.


Maybe this isn't the right forum to discuss if you should close your forum or not. That question should be answered by the users on your forum. No one else.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

mikho said:


> Maybe this isn't the right forum to discuss if you should close your forum or not. That question should be answered by the users on your forum. No one else.


*@**mikho* You pretty much hit the nail on it's head with your statement. I think that sometimes people like to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. That's not my forum by the way, it was meant to be a community project meant to help people from LET move on to something else and I was looking for people to get involved and help me run it. I posted another thread with MannDude's permission and @MartinD closed it. Since I don't want to go against the will of the majority I wanted to know what everyone else thinks. However one or two members don't represent the majority, even if they're louder. If someone else is interested in helping the community at LET move on and has a good solution for it then I'm all ears. You have to realize that many folks won't move along if they are slightly comfortable with the forum that they're currently logged into. Instead of arguing about this we should all work together. The community on LET has been split apart for a long time and couldn't agree on anything, I think that at least now we should all be united.


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## MartinD (May 27, 2013)

Which thread are we talking about here?

Edit: Found it. It was closed because it was simply another thread about the same forum you started a thread about previously. It was going nowhere.


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## blergh (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> *@Mun*,  - I am trying to build a place for those who won't come here (maybe as a bridge). I've called it BudgeHostingTalk.com


I lol'd

Your last forum/site was "shut down" due to "vanilla being shit" and now you're back again with vanilla and a new domain? Good job son, good job.


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## Chronic (May 27, 2013)

marcm said:


> You have to realize that many folks won't move along if they are slightly comfortable with the forum that they're currently logged into. Instead of arguing about this we should all work together. The community on LET has been split apart for a long time and couldn't agree on anything, I think that at least now we should all be united.


Take your statement and apply it to this asylum you are trying to get going. Your solution of getting people out of the LET comfort zone and into VPSBoard is to have them join a third forum with the same comforts? I don't see how you're achieving anything here, but moving members from one location to another, yet no closer to VPSBoard. Sometimes to teach a man how to swim, you have to throw them in the water.


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## AnthonySmith (May 27, 2013)

My 2c on this matter while trying to ignore the drama developing in this thread is that I was fairly annoyed when I found out that CC owned LET for the following reasons:

1) Because Joel used a good deed to profit from and ruined the original spirit of LEB, while actively doing as little as possible.

2) Because I then found out that the advertising money I had been paying was going to CVPS.

3) Because Joel went psycho at me for daring to say that LET+B had turned completely commercial and that they could not bring back any community spirit in to the place while actively making it as commercial as possible in order to sell it.

4) Because CC said that they never lied about it because no one asked which is like sleeping with your wifes sister for a year then when your wife finds out blaming her for never asking.

Then I had a think about it and though.. meh I don't care, now it is all out in the open at least it will get some direction, I have no doubt Liam can take it forward well on behalf of CC and it seems that CVPS was never the actual owner it is just that CC and CVPS are in bed together which I also am fine with everyone has preferred business relationships, so my final thoughts were.. OK fine LET/B is just a commercial board with a forum instead of pretending to be a community primarily while taking $10k p/month in revenue.

I am fine with the way LET/B is now, it is just business and that is the way I will approach the place now, no different to WHT, just a smaller version with a slightly different format, I never depended on the place but I would be lying if I said it is not worth advertising on it, I will take part in relevant topics, comment where I want and use it to drum up more business.

There is no alternative to LEB/T v1, the vision LEA had was unique at the time and cannot be recreated so I treat this place as 70% community / 30% business, while WHT/LET/B is 90% business / 10% community

I don't hold any bad feelings towards the current owners but I think Joel is a dick, and that is my business opinion you don't want to hear my personal one.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

MartinD said:


> Which thread are we talking about here?


*@MartinD* This one: http://vpsboard.com/index.php?/topic/341-lowendtalkin-is-back-this-time-we-did-it-right/

And I wanted to bring to your attention that this is something that happens very often on WHT and nova days on LET. Let threads run their course until they go off topic, then close them. I didn't get to post a reply but it doesn't matter because I've kind of lost my enthusiasm for it. Sometimes not doing anything is better than getting into arguments with people. I'll do my part in letting people know about vpsBoard and will put in my LET sig as well. That's about all I can do so that I won't upset a few folks here.



blergh said:


> Your last forum/site was "shut down" due to "vanilla being shit" and now you're back again with vanilla and a new domain? Good job son, good job.


*@blergh* Yes, I took it down. Vanilla comes very poorly set up out of the box, so I worked extra hard to properly secure it. Also this time I did set it up using Nginx. Last time it was setup on Apache and Varnish cache and I didn't update the Varnish rules. The other reason why I took it down was because people were coming over asking if the site is also owned by CC. Well, it's wasn't. However I've lost my appetite for that little project at this point. Since it was meant for the community and the community is not very interested in it, I don't see why I should continue to fight for it.



Chronic said:


> Sometimes to teach a man how to swim, you have to throw them in the water.


*@**Chronic* that's true.


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

AnthonySmith said:


> My 2c on this matter while trying to ignore the drama developing in this thread...


*@**AnthonySmith*, I for one don't want to contribute to it so I decided to walk away. Sometimes it is better to just give in and let go. The natural order of things always develops on its own so neither of us here has any control over what will happen. I think that it's better to just sit back, relax, and let nature run its course  (as natural as this digital world can be of course )



AnthonySmith said:


> ...I was fairly annoyed when I found out that CC owned LET for the following reasons


I've joined LET around the time that the DDoS attack happened (back in March 2012) while LET was hosted on Linode. Now that I've started piecing everything together I wonder how much of that was true. I also remember "Chief" lamenting how awful the Linode experience was and how they didn't want to work with him in finding the attacker. I don't know, but for some reason I doubt that there was an attacker because immediately after that the site moved to CC, then not long after that the competition for free for 6 months CC server took place and so on. Now CC doesn't have DDoS mitigation either, but for some reason LET wasn't taken down by anyone. Maybe I'm wrong about all of this, but seeing how sneaky "Chief" was, this could have been as good of an excuse as any other to move the site to CC (along with LEB of course).

I was never interested in the internal affairs of LET/LEB so my impression looking from a distance always was that Chief is serving a small group of providers while doing his best to throw the rest under the bus.



AnthonySmith said:


> 3) Because Joel went psycho at me for daring to say that LET+B had turned completely commercial and that they could not bring back any community spirit in to the place while actively making it as commercial as possible in order to sell it.


If I could add a synonym for the word hypocrite to the English dictionary, then "Chief" would be it. My issues with him started because for 6 months LEB consistently ignored my offers, despite the fact that I was submitting them "by the book". So I've sent him a PM and asked him about it and he said to send it to him directly, which I did. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that it was the first time that anyone offered 1GB KVM for $7/mo. He probably didn't like it so two more weeks went by and he never got back to me, so when I PMd him directly asking about it, in a completely bipolar fashion he replied saying that how dare I ask him about it, after which he threatened not to post the offer. I said something to the effect of "sorry mate, I thought you said to send it to you and you would take care of it...", so he finally posted it. That was the only time I had an offer before @Liam took over.  I can honestly said that @Liam did way more for that community than Chief ever did, and if anyone should run things over there then it should be @Liam. Unfortunately he has bosses as well, so he can't make any decisions on his own.



AnthonySmith said:


> I am fine with the way LET/B is now, it is just business and that is the way I will approach the place now, no different to WHT...


I don't care about its ownership, however the shady tactics that they employ are pretty disgusting, especially when they use their minions to attack someone that they don't like. I've seen a few people being cornered by their attack dogs before, and it isn't pretty. If you hang around that place it's better to keep a low profile. The general rule around there is that you can talk, troll and post stupid memes all day long, as long as you don't talk about your own hosting services, or about someone else's hosting services in a too positive way if they're not hosted with CC. And don't you dare point people to another forum, case in point: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/10762/is-let-dying-slowly



AnthonySmith said:


> There is no alternative to LEB/T v1...


My interpretation of it was that LEA created it as a hobby. The only remnant of LEA's original ideology can be found here: http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/5-reasons-why-you-want-a-low-end-box/
Unfortunately a hobby should stay a hobby and considering today's economic realities no one should run a serious business on $7 or less plans unless they got it on a promotion. People should think before they buy that the provider has to turn a profit in order to effectively serve them. Otherwise it is no different than all the other ugly economic realities of our times (eg. sweat shops, outsourcing, cheap labor, etc.). While you're not sweating when you run a hosting business, you sure as hell better turn a profit if you want to stay afloat. Customer service, support, software all of this is added cost on top of the hardware. If LEA didn't want to do it any longer and "Chief" sold out, then maybe this mutation that LET/LEB has become should maybe move along and update its policies and guiding principles. I mean you can buy about anything, but for sure as hell you can't buy someone else's principles.



AnthonySmith said:


> I don't hold any bad feelings towards the current owners but I think Joel is a dick, and that is my business opinion you don't want to hear my personal one.


We may never know the truth. Maybe LEA and Chief were together on it. Maybe not. There is no possible way that we can know. Oh, LEA posted "some strong words" trying to clear any blame off of him? Who cares. While I am not willing to dismiss any possibility, at the end of the day LEA will never match Chief when it comes to being a dick. Why I am saying this? Simply because LEA should have asked the community who to pass the torch on when he decided to call it quiz. It's something that not of you have thought about, but if the whole thing was meant to be non-profit that would have been the right way to proceed. Even better, he should have created something like a committee of people, an uneven number of administrators that would have taken care of it. Just my two cents.

By the way, if you still need up to date Xen rpms, I moved the repo http://repo.phoenixrpm.com


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (May 27, 2013)

TL;DR?


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

WelltodoInformalCattle said:


> TL;DR?


*@WelltodoInformalCattle* you can always grab a bucket of popcorn when you don't have anything better to do


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## Reece-DM (May 27, 2013)

Its always crossed my mind if the person who actually won the "kick-starter" was just really them giving it to no one.

Would explain why nothings happened, lets be fair it don't take months on end to plan a single server business. and yet were still seeing nothing.


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## Francisco (May 27, 2013)

Reece said:


> Its always crossed my mind if the person who actually won the "kick-starter" was just really them giving it to no one.
> 
> Would explain why nothings happened, lets be fair it don't take months on end to plan a single server business. and yet were still seeing nothing.


Don't break the kickstarters balls too much. He's genuinely a nice guy and I've chatted with him a few times when he's PM'd me.

I think the market went south far faster than he had planned putting him in an uneasy spot.

Tim & I did read over a lot of submissions and we both supposedly agreed to the same submission as the winner. The winners write up was quite solid and he had a great business plan. He figured it would take him a few months to get things squared away but the market turned into the 'most memory for the buck' stampede it is right now really fast.

Francisco


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## Marc M. (May 27, 2013)

Reece said:


> Its always crossed my mind if the person who actually won the "kick-starter" was just really them giving it to no one. Would explain why nothings happened, lets be fair it don't take months on end to plan a single server business. and yet were still seeing nothing.


*@* -> *@**Francisco* is tight. I've helped zhuanyi with a WP template and Xen packages for his project, but I don't know where he disappeared.


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