# OVH vs Hetzner dedi



## willie (Aug 11, 2014)

I've had a couple of OVH dedis (currently just one) at BHS and generally been happy with them despite what seems like a disorganized operation on OVH's part.  I use them primarily for personal storage and computation, i.e. I don't run any public-facing services on them, though I do download a few (legal) torrents on a regular basis. 

Unfortunately my existing server is almost completely out of disk space (2TB hard disk plus 500GB ftp/nfs storage) and as an older model,  it has some other annoying limitations (100 mbit ethernet makes the ftp/nfs area slow to access--newer OVH servers all have gbit internal network). 

I see that Hetzner has some better servers (faster cpu and more disk space) in their robot auction for about the same cost as I'm currently paying for my OVH server, so I'm thinking of migrating.  This would be the i7-2600 or i7-3700 with 2x 3TB disks and 16gb ram. 

Does anyone have any general opinions of this issue?  I've heard people complain about Hetzner's network, for example. They are also reportedly very intolerant of customers getting DDOS'd.  I think that's less of an issue for me (I keep a low profile) than for (say) a gameserver operator, but I wonder if I have to be concerned at all.  If I ever run a public service on the box I could easily see proxying it through a remote VPS.

Any other issues such as dealing with the company?  Hetzner actually seems to be somewhat better organized than OVH.

Thanks


----------



## HalfEatenPie (Aug 11, 2014)

I've never actually used Hetzner, but from what I can tell they're pretty nice and decent with everything.

As a user, I know there's a popular MMOBG hosted on three Hetzner dedicated servers. They rarely have downtimes and packetloss has been pretty minimal (except for isolated incidents), and I'd say is probably more reliable than OVH.

Network also shouldn't be a major problem. I'd say review their ToS and AUP.

Sorry I can't tell you from the other-side, but from a client/user side it's not bad at all.


----------



## 5n1p (Aug 11, 2014)

I had Hetzner dedi for few game server few years back. It was working for about 2 years. Since it was for game server there were DDOS's, but in total it was down for 3 days because of it, one's it was for a day and second time for 2 days, and that is about it. I don't know now but back then I haven't noticed any network problems, even had good ping from people from Asia. If your server's IP is used in DDOS you will get notified only if someone is actually complaining about it, and you should respond to email you get, if you don't respond they will do it for you. I think it was good and I would get one again if I needed one.


----------



## fm7 (Aug 11, 2014)

I suggest you take a look at online.net.


----------



## DomainBop (Aug 11, 2014)

> Does anyone have any general opinions of this issue?  I've heard people complain about Hetzner's network, for example


I'd rate their network above average and definitely better than OVH BHS (the BHS network sucks compared to OVH France).  Their network has improved greatly over the past couple of years.   Swiftway (who has been known to be critical of other networks) even had favorable things to say about Hetzner's network on WHT (here and here )

I use one of my servers at Hetzner for a remote desktop (x2go/Debian xfce4, connecting from NYC) and the performance and stability is excellent (the server is in DC1 in Nuremberg not the data center park in Falkenstein but network performance in both locations is roughly the same)

Latencies to Hetzner from North America are about 10ms more than from OVH France but download speeds are slightly faster.  See below...

OVH (Gravelines DC) ~# wget freevps.us/downloads/bench.sh -O - -o /dev/null|bash


CPU model :  Intel® Xeon® CPU E3-1245 V2 @ 3.40GHz


Number of cores : 8


CPU frequency :  3638.000 MHz


Total amount of ram : 32145 MB


Total amount of swap : 32997 MB


System uptime :   96 days, 11:20,       


Download speed from CacheFly: 94.2MB/s


Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 8.68MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 10.7MB/s


Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 7.92MB/s


Download speed from i3d.net, Rotterdam, NL: 35.3MB/s


Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 41.4MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 4.10MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 10.4MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 7.70MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 17.7MB/s


I/O speed :  177 MB/s



Hetzner (DC1 Nuremberg) ~ # wget freevps.us/downloads/bench.sh -O - -o /dev/null|bash


CPU model :  Intel® Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz


CPU frequency :  1600.000 MHz


Total amount of ram : 32108 MB


Total amount of swap : 65534 MB


System uptime :   11 days, 6:18       


Download speed from CacheFly: 94.3MB/s


Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 9.21MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 18.0MB/s


Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 7.74MB/s


Download speed from i3d.net, Rotterdam, NL: 62.3MB/s


Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 68.7MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 5.94MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 17.7MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 13.8MB/s


Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 26.9MB/s


I/O speed :  246 MB/s





> They are also reportedly very intolerant of customers getting DDOS'd.


Hetzner doesn't put up with any shit whether it's DDoS or SPAM (as evidenced by the fact that they have 0 SBL's and Spamhaus gives them a silver star for proactively fighting spam).  I run production servers at Hetzner and I'd much rather use a DC like Hetzner that tries to keep it's network clean than a network like Ecatel/CC/etc. that welcomes any Tom, Skid, or Harry.


----------



## Kruno (Aug 11, 2014)

Hetzner is fine if you don't plan on getting DDoS'd. If you get hit on Friday you have your IP nullrouted until Monday. Nice way to ruin your weekend.


----------



## willie (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for the advice and I guess Hetzner is sounding pretty good.  Online.net doesn't have any product like this: their lowest end server with more than 2x2TB disk is a Pro LTS that's 120 euro/month.  The Hetzner boxes with 2x3TB start around 40 euro/month.

I've been pretty happy with the BHS network because almost all my transit is within north america, and in fact had been worrying a bit about getting stuff from north america to Hetzner.  But those Linode transfer figures are impressive.

OVH (SoYouStart) purports to have a W3520 box with 2x2TB for 42 USD/month (setup fee waived if you pay a full year up front) and I was thinking maybe it would work out ok to just get two of those, but they're always out of stock and I don't want to shell out that much cash all at once.  I'm surprised there aren't more of these low-midrange dedis with 3TB and 4TB disks.  SYS has a 2x4TB storage box for 70 USD/month but it has 8gb of ram and a wimpy cpu (i3-2130).  Two of the W3520's would be 84/month, with (combined) 4x2TB, 32GB ram, and maybe 3x the total cpu speed, which seems much more attractive than the only slightly cheaper i3.


----------



## lbft (Aug 11, 2014)

One thing to keep in mind about Hetzner is that (unless they've changed it) they assign the WHOIS for your /64 of IPv6 in your name and address. Not at all important for a business but something an individual might find to be a problem.


----------



## libro22 (Aug 11, 2014)

Not a direct OVH client but the gameserver I frequent to is using them before (EU). Ping from Asia is acceptable, speed is not a problem. But yeah, get DDoSed and you're down frequently, sometimes longer.


----------



## DomainBop (Aug 11, 2014)

willie said:


> The Hetzner boxes with 2x3TB start around 40 euro/month.


The prices shown on the Hetzner/ServerBidding sites include 19% VAT so if you're outside the EU the prices are lower: current low prices are 31.09 euros VAT exclusive (37 w/VAT) for the i7-2600 and 37 euros VAT excl (44 w/VAT) for the i7-3770


----------



## splitice (Aug 11, 2014)

Hetzners DDoS handling policies was one of the main reasons we first opened our DDoS Protection range (I used to have quite a few servers with them). Not that I would call it bad, its as expected for a good quality network without mitigation technology.


----------



## Clouvider-Dom (Aug 12, 2014)

Just bear in mind that i7 is not a 'server grade' hardware.


----------



## CentralHosts (Aug 18, 2014)

Both providers have a solid network infrastructure but if you are going to be needing support and do not want to wait days then I would look at other providers.


----------



## DomainBop (Aug 18, 2014)

CentralHosts said:


> Both providers have a solid network infrastructure but if you are going to be needing support and do not want to wait days then I would look at other providers.


So are you saying that if something goes wrong with one of the servers you rent from OVH that your VPS customers in your France location could be looking at an extended downtime?

dig fr2.centralhosts.net


; <<>> DiG 9.8.4-rpz2+rl005.12-P1 <<>> fr2.centralhosts.net


;; global options: +cmd


;; Got answer:


;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 18025


;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0


;; QUESTION SECTION:


;fr2.centralhosts.net.        IN    A


;; ANSWER SECTION:


fr2.centralhosts.net.    14400    IN    A    46.105.107.31


----------



## willie (Sep 6, 2014)

Clouvider-Dom said:


> Just bear in mind that i7 is not a 'server grade' hardware.


Should I care about this?  They have E3-1245's for a few euro more, and 1245v2's for a few more than that.  Prices of everything have fallen. 

I ended up renewing my OVH server for another month (path of least resistance) but it's coming up again soon, so I'm again considering this Hetzner migration.  All the relevant Hetzner servers have gotten cheaper.  The i7-2600 is now 37 euro incl vat.


----------



## DomainBop (Sep 6, 2014)

willie said:


> Should I care about this?  They have E3-1245's for a few euro more, and 1245v2's for a few more than that.  Prices of everything have fallen.


If you're using it for personal storage and computation an i7 will be fine and will save you a few dollars (just remember to check the drives when you first get it because they are used)


----------



## blergh (Sep 7, 2014)

Hetzner has dropped significantly since a few years back. Support is horrendous with replacing the wrong drives multiple times in a row, nulling boxes for days, selling a box on serverbidding and then deploying a completely different one etc etc.

Sure, it's cheap but the support is none-existent.


----------



## Serveo (Sep 9, 2014)

Wasn't hetzner down this week?


----------



## jvkz (Sep 16, 2014)

Hetzner do offer 14 days money back guarantee on every server you order from auction. So, if for any reason you do not want server just cancel it and get full refund within 14 days of your order. Pre-Sale is quite active but technical team is a bit slow.


----------



## willie (Oct 1, 2014)

Hetzner seems to have just introduced a new server to their robot system and apparently deployed a lot of them.  i7-3770, 32gb ram, 2x 3tb drives, for 34 euro fixed price (non auction).  This is vs the earlier ones with 16gb ram that were costing a little more in the auctions.  The 32gb's were getting snapped up fast and I had to try about 5 times (filling in my name and address etc. each time) but eventually got one last night, and they still have them this morning.

The main annoying thing is that smartctl reports two different types of hard drives.  /dev/sdb is a TOSHIBA DT01ACA300 with 164 power on hours and no apparent problems, but /dev/sda is a Seagate ST3000DM001-9YN166 with 12793 power on hours and what looks like 52 UNC errors at around 8687 hours, though it's passed multiple self tests. 12793 hours is around 1.5 years suggesting the box was first built with two Seagate drives, one of them failed and was replaced by the Toshiba drive, and the other is potentially near failure now. 

What to do?

For 39 euro they have an E3-1245v2 box with 16gb ECC ram and 2x 3tb enterprise drives.  For my purposes the 32gb ram is nice but not really important, the ECC might make more difference (since I do long computations sometimes), and the cpu speed is about the same.  I don't know if the so-called enterprise drives will be any newer or more reliable than what I have now.

Network transfer from California is quite a bit slower than from California to Beauharnois, but I can't really expect otherwise, given the transatlantic link.


----------



## Amitz (Oct 1, 2014)

willie said:


> What to do?
> 
> 
> For 39 euro they have an E3-1245v2 box with 16gb ECC ram and 2x 3tb enterprise drives. For my purposes the 32gb ram is nice but not really important, the ECC might make more difference (since I do long computations sometimes), and the cpu speed is about the same. I don't know if the so-called enterprise drives will be any newer or more reliable than what I have now.


I have one of those E3-1245v2 server from the auction. I posted the smartctl results here:http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/34573/smartctl-results-should-i-be-concerned


in case that you would like to see them.


----------



## willie (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks, I notice you didn't mention the drive model.  My drive has had a bunch of uncorrectable errors, which seems like a possible cause of concern.  My smartmon output is here:


```
Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166                                                                  
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED                                              
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE      
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   117   098   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       151920296      
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   093   093   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0              
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       22             
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0              
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   086   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       437998817      
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   086   086   000    Old_age   Always       -       12789
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       22
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   012   012   000    Old_age   Always       -       88
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   065   065   000    Old_age   Always       -       35
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   065   056   045    Old_age   Always       -       35 (Min/Max 28\
/35)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       14
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   084   084   000    Old_age   Always       -       33806
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   035   044   000    Old_age   Always       -       35 (0 19 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       72657961757655
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       5189788053836
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       13449928820584\
0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 52 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
        CR = Command Register [HEX]
        FR = Features Register [HEX]
        SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
        SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
        CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
        CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
        DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
        DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
        ER = Error register [HEX]
        ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 52 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 8687 hours (361 days + 23 hours)
  When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

  After command completion occurred, registers were:
  ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
  -- -- -- -- -- -- --
  40 51 00 ff ff ff 0f  Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0fffffff = 268435455

  Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
  CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
  -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
  60 00 08 ff ff ff 4f 00   8d+15:00:11.505  READ FPDMA QUEUED
  ef 10 02 00 00 00 a0 00   8d+15:00:11.505  SET FEATURES [Reserved for Serial ATA]
  27 00 00 00 00 00 e0 00   8d+15:00:11.505  READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT
  ec 00 00 00 00 00 a0 00   8d+15:00:11.505  IDENTIFY DEVICE
  ef 03 46 00 00 00 a0 00   8d+15:00:11.505  SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]


SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12666         -
# 2  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12648         -
# 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12642         -
# 4  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12634         -
# 5  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12628         -
# 6  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     12599         -
# 7  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      9587         -
# 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      9577         -
# 9  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%         5         -
```


----------



## Amitz (Oct 1, 2014)

They are both Seagate Constellation drives (ST33000650NS).


----------



## willie (Oct 2, 2014)

As expected Hetzner support has told me they won't replace the drive until it actually fails.  It's raid 1 but I'm still a little worried.  Also there is no monitoring of any type going to Hetzner staff (unlike OVH).  If a drive fails they won't notice unless I run my own monitoring that notifies me to notify them.   They also say they can't guarantee that a replacement drive would be in better shape.

Have you ever cancelled a Hetzner server from the robot auction?  Do you have to cancel 30 days in advance, or is immediate and prorated?  I'm thinking of getting another server and seeing if the disks are in better shape, then cancelling one or the other of them.


----------



## DomainBop (Oct 3, 2014)

willie said:


> Have you ever cancelled a Hetzner server from the robot auction?  Do you have to cancel 30 days in advance, or is immediate and prorated?


Hetzner offers a 14 day full refund period on their auction servers so you can cancel any time within the first 2 weeks and receive a full refund of your entire month's payment.



> Hetzner seems to have just introduced a new server to their robot system and apparently deployed a lot of them.  i7-3770, 32gb ram, 2x 3tb drives, for 34 euro fixed price (non auction).


I picked one up.  The drives on mine are TOSHIBA DT01ACA300,  10197 power on hours on both, and no errors at all.


----------



## willie (Oct 4, 2014)

I emailed them again pointing out an increased number of UNC errors (SMART attribute 187) and they agreed to replace the drive.  They put in another Toshiba drive similar to the one already installed, and it was new or almost-new.  After some help from #vpsboard irc guys rebuilding the RAID and an error (my fault) about Grub, I tried rebooting into the rescue system only to have that fail.  I opened a support ticket and they found the problem was a bad cpu fan, which they fixed, so my box is up and running again.  At this point I'd say Hetzner's support response has actually been pretty good.  They answered everything I sent them within an hour or so, and they turned around two hardware repairs quite quickly.

I've now transferred around a TB of data from my OVH (BHS) server to the Hetzner box, and it's kept the OVH box's 100 mbit network port saturated the whole time.  I think this reflects well mostly on OVH.  I also transferred 100GB from an Ipxcore VPS in Choopa, NJ, and got around 150mbps which is fantastic for a cheap VPS.

Overall I'm mostly happy with this box.  Certainly can't beat the price.  2x the ram, 1.5x the cpu performance, 10x the LAN bandwidth, and 1.5x the disk space, for about 2/3 the cost of my OVH server.


----------



## willie (Oct 17, 2014)

If anyone cares, the 34 euro 32gb servers have dried up, but they seem to have quietly introduced a 16gb server (again i7-3770 with 2x 3tb drives) for 31 euro which if you don't need the 32gb ram is an even better deal, and they seem to have a steady supply of them. 

Since my 32gb box now has two almost-new HDD's I'm going to stay with it rather than downgrading to a 16gb box with drives in unknown condition, but thought I'd give a heads up.  The 16gb box is actually only 26 euro if you don't have to pay EU VAT.


----------



## GigaboxHost (Dec 2, 2014)

we have used Hetzner for testing and did not have much luck with performance or support.

OVH had great performance and is alway available for support.


----------



## fixidixi (Dec 3, 2014)

@GigaboxHost

r u sure that u havnt mixed up the order?

ovh support ?


----------



## willie (Dec 3, 2014)

I've found Hetzner's support much better than OVH's.  The hardware is also a better deal (at least for some specific configurations in the robot auction, vs. SoYouStart) and the stock availability (again for those configurations, but they are the interesting ones) is also better.  OVH seemed to have better network performance, e.g. I was able to move 2+ TB of data from OVH (BHS) to Hetzner getting the OVH box's full 100 mbit/s almost the whole time, while transfer between the same two machines in the opposite direction went at maybe 1/3 of that speed.  OVH BHS obviously also had better geographic proximity to North America but I find I'm not having any real problems using a server in Germany.

OVH seems to be repositioning itself as a higher-end provider under the OVH brand, where the budget SoYouStart line gets a few dregs as machines are freed up or decommissioned/cannibalized, but no regular new stock.  I don't know the situation with Kimsufi.  Hetzner continues to play silly pricing games with its robot auction but at least they have had plentiful supplies of this class of machines.  The one I'm currently paying 34 euro (less VAT) for now seems to go for around 41 euro most of the time, but you can sometimes see it drop a little if you're persistent.


----------



## farhanideas (Dec 10, 2014)

I will recommend to go reviews section of Hetzner from their you will get better idea about their services and support which help you to decide


----------



## splitice (Dec 10, 2014)

I had Hetzner servers for over 4 years, I was very impressed. Only one hard drive replacement, and it was handled professionally and without too much downtime. It would have been nice if they did hotswap replacement, but given the desktop grade hardware they sell its probably not supported.

Their support remains 100x better than OVH even on their worst days.


----------



## PascM (Dec 11, 2014)

They are a budget provider and they perform more than good based on that.


----------



## DomainBop (Dec 12, 2014)

Looks like Hetzner has upgraded the processors on their EX40-SSD line but hasn't updated their website yet.

Ordered an i7-4770 and 37 minutes later this was delivered:



> Hardware data:
> 
> CPU1: Intel® Xeon® CPU E3-1246 v3 @ 3.50GHz (Cores 8)
> Memory:  32059 MB
> ...


Crucial CT256MX100SSD1 drives


----------



## DomainBop (Dec 13, 2014)

Hetzner this morning...Saturday...a weekend

2:49AM ticket opened because a server is unreachable

3:25AM problem diagnosed, faulty power supply replaced, and server is back online.

36 minutes resolution for a hardware replacement... +1


----------



## TurnkeyInternet (Dec 14, 2014)

That is super fast for a physical repair - i'd almost think it was a power breaker/pdu tripped rather than a full on power supply  test, replace, reboot in that time- but that's sure quick!


----------



## willie (Dec 14, 2014)

Mine had two hardware replacements (failing HDD and failed CPU fan) and it took some back and forth to convince them to replace the HDD (see my post of 04 October).  But once convinced they changed it out quickly, and they also quickly diagnosed and fixed the cpu fan.  I don't know if either was within 36 minutes but if not, both were pretty close.


----------



## GreenHostBox (Dec 14, 2014)

We haven't hosted with Hetzner yet but we had with OVH. I wasn't satisfied with their performance and network which made us switch to a different provider.


----------



## uniweb (Dec 21, 2014)

If you know linux, then Hetzner. super service and quality, but it was necessary for the knowledge of the administration.


----------



## Joshua-Epic (Dec 21, 2014)

In the past we used OVH for our Europe based hosting brands but always had issues with network availability. At the present, we do have a OVH server for storage and it does the job, just not sure if you would want to use them for a public facing server.


----------

