# LET Hacked Again



## bfj

So apparently LET was hacked again today. Looks like they restored the backup...but did not fix the holes. Pitty. 

EDIT:

They probably should have changed all Administrator passwords I guess.


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## shovenose

It's hacked again!


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## The_Hatta

You expected them to be smart enough to fill the holes, :blink:  You expected too much Bfj


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## jarland

bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm sorry but this is just hilarious.


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## mojeda

jarland said:


> I'm sorry but this is just hilarious.


 

Yep!


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## SeriesN

And it is down. Terrible. I know they have group of talented programmers who could patch this up but I guess they are also stuck with too much drama.


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## Aesthemic

...I probably shouldn't be surprised by this but I am. Either another security hole was used to commit the hack or they never actually fixed the previous issue.


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## D. Strout

I'm betting it was never fixed. If this doesn't show the remaining people there how unreliable the site is and how uncaring the owners are, nothing will.


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## bfj

Aesthemic said:


> ...I probably shouldn't be surprised by this but I am. Either another security hole was used to commit the hack or they never actually fixed the previous issue.


Well if someone got a dump of the DB, and had the password hashes it would be pretty easy to get the password from them, given that vanilla is OS and they could of gotten the salts (probably from the db) if the passwords were salted. 

So yea, either same hole or someone just used a real password.


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## shovenose

I think they just shut off the server entirely now.


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## Dragoon0309

My guess is they fixed the whole but didnt change all the admin passwords.


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## peppr

Have fun while it last..


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## Awmusic12635

Ugh not again


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## wlanboy

They moved to another version of Vanilla but not a current one.


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## Aldryic C'boas

I wonder if they'll blame the Solus API for this one, too -_-;


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## OnePoundWebHosting

Another nail for the coffin then I guess!


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## Asama

LEB/LET down, i'm not surprised if someone has begun to attack them


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## BradND




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## Jack




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## raindog308

I wonder how much CC paid to buy this headache.

Wasn't the original sale (LEA->Chief) something like $5000 or $10000?  I remember it being an amazing figure for a relatively low-volume board.


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## Mitchell

raindog308 said:


> I wonder how much CC paid to buy this headache.
> 
> Wasn't the original sale (LEA->Chief) something like $5000 or $10000?  I remember it being an amazing figure for a relatively low-volume board.


No, it was really low for the volume the blog was getting.

But chief sold it to CC, as he got demoted to member now that everybody knows.


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## Kairus

Lol, still hacked I guess since I have admin privs.


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## OnePoundWebHosting

Is back up and still hacked, LOL

** And now down again.


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## Reece-DM

And Colocrossing whom own numerous companies/brands etc don't have a clue about patching there shit...
So much for security from your "data center" I do wonder what other holes do lay open currently within there network.. when they can't even keep there main source for *false adverising* secure.

I've been browsing LET for some time, joined and now I'd like to leave


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## Retry

LEB is still up. Where is the popcorn?



raindog308 said:


> I wonder how much CC paid to buy this headache.
> 
> Wasn't the original sale (LEA->Chief) something like $5000 or $10000?  I remember it being an amazing figure for a relatively low-volume board.


Low volume? k.


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## mnpeep

So vpsBoard is going to burst today because of this... cool.


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## netnub

Well, long live VPSBoard.


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## vanarp

403 Forbidden


nginx/1.0.13


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## Dillybob

RIP LET 

Atleast these forums are pretty dam fast for IPB 3.x, great work admin!


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## raindog308

Mitchell said:


> No, it was really low for the volume the blog was getting.


I am certainly no expert but lowendtalk.com is only PR 3 and lowendbox.com is only PR 4.  They may get some traffic, but $10K seems like a lot.

Then again, there was some talk about the ads bringing in $3000/mo.


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## JDiggity

I have had somebody trying to hack my forum accounts over the last week 2 times.  Which forum got hacked and database dumped I wonder






> Dear 24Khost,
> 
> Someone has tried to log into your account on Host Discussion
> 
> Blog - Web Hosting Community and Review Forum with an incorrect password at least 5 times. This person has been prevented from attempting to login to your account for the next 15 minutes.
> 
> The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 188.143.232.144
> 
> All the best, Host Discussion Blog - Web Hosting Community and Review Forum


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## JDiggity

isn't 1.0.13 still the hackable nginx?


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## JDiggity

Looks like they upgraded that now. 

IS vpsboard running slow for anyone else?


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## vanarp

403 Forbidden


nginx/1.4.1


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## Retry

24khost said:


> Looks like they upgraded that now.
> 
> IS vpsboard running slow for anyone else?


Same here, has been going up and down.


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## shovenose

Yeah, VPSBoard is running extremely slowly for me. And sometimes it times out.


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## Asama

24khost said:


> isn't 1.0.13 still the hackable nginx?


it's old: 2012-03-05 nginx-1.0.13 stable version has been released.


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## coreyman

At this point why do we even care if it comes back up or not? (lenetwork)


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## vanarp

I guess this forum is getting some DDoS attack at this time?

Quite often not opening the pages


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## Aldryic C'boas

vanarp said:


> I guess this forum is getting some DDoS attack at this time?
> 
> Quite often not opening the pages


Correct... took me a bit to get it filtered, sorry about that.  Looks like someone's got a bad case of the butthurt <_<


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## XFS_Brian

Got this screenshot before the site went to a 403.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98775500/LES.PNG


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## D. Strout

Yeah, it was LowEndShit for a while during the last hack too, before some jerk changed it to VPSBoard Sucks. FWIW, LEB is up right now with a new offer, but LET is still 403.


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## Eased

I think the 403 page is rather suiting.


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## Magiobiwan

If they actually fix the bugs when they restore the backup AGAIN, they should push the Thanks Button enable button. If it gets hacked again, the hacker should just push that button, and not do ANYTHING else.


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## thisisnotnetomx

well well, I dunno, I think that *may be* they will handle over LET to someone else


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## Noerman

I just remember we have this forum. 

LEB is using nginx/1.4.1


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## MannDude

Just woke up a couple hours ago and have been working for an hour. How long has it been down?


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## Jack

MannDude said:


> Just woke up a couple hours ago and have been working for an hour. How long has it been down?


4:30PM UK time which is 11:30AM US.


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## Noerman

*I believe LET will be hacked over and over again.*

I hate to post same thing more than one, every time they restored database from the previous day after hacked.


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## titanicsaled

I hope this site is more secure.

We've already been targeted by DOS attacks, the person will probably look for exploits here as well. If it's the same person.


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## Awmusic12635

Seems LET is back up


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## Awmusic12635

http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/10539/leb-update


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## mnpeep

And again...

http://d.pr/i/XJVs


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## Zach

Round 3! Sweet!


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## jarland

I would like to express my deepest concern for all involved parties and I hope that they are able to resolve this as quickly as possible.

Also, bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## mnpeep

Fool me once, shame on you

Fool me twice, shame on me

Fool me three times, shame on everyone!

Fool me four times, shame on everything!

Fool me five times... you're an idiot.


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## Dan

Pretty piss poor LET and LEB are down..


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## debug

mnpeep said:


> http://d.pr/i/XJVs


 

I wrote the Hey, we're hacked again message- sweet e-fame!


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## mnpeep

debug said:


> I wrote the Hey, we're hacked again message- sweet e-fame!


And I changed the title....


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## Asama

Are LEB and LET sharing the same server?


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## shovenose

@Asama I think so.


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## mnpeep

Asama said:


> Are LEB and LET sharing the same server?


Looks like it...


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## WelltodoInformalCattle

Well here we go again...


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## Noerman

The Real LowEndDrama

We are here again ....


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## wdq

If the same exploit has caused the hack three times now you think they'd figure out how to fix that exploit, or temporarily migrate to something other than Vanilla temporarily.


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## mnpeep

wdq said:


> If the same exploit has caused the hack three times now you think they'd figure out how to fix that exploit, or temporarily migrate to something other than Vanilla temporarily.


I have a feeling like they are three separate exploits. The first two did not affect LEB.


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## trewq

mnpeep said:


> The first two did not affect LEB.


 

They have taken the whole server offline by the look of it.


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## Noerman

It said we are all Admins ... but beaten by hacker(s).


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## Dan

Who knew a community around cheap VPS's could be so full of childish drama.. funny..


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## drmike

Bahhhahahahahah both sites are still down for me.


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## concerto49

LEB is up.


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## drmike

Yep, Lowendbox is up... Back with a new offer  Liquidhost (they host 2 of 3 locations with Colocrossing).

Lowendtalk is still down.  Now showing a Nginx screen. 403 error.


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## Marc M.

nCompetent people shouldn't be running no srevers... nor fRums.... iF you catch my dRift....


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## Dillybob

So whatever happened to EndOfReality? Secretly just poofed? I call bs


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## Naruto

wdq said:


> If the same exploit has caused the hack three times now you think they'd figure out how to fix that exploit, or temporarily migrate to something other than Vanilla temporarily.


You know how slow those Solus guys are at patching things.


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## Daniel

shovenose said:


> @Asama I think so.


They are on the same dedicated server, but they are in separate containers.


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## drmike

Dillybob said:


> So whatever happened to EndOfReality? Secretly just poofed? I call bs


EndofReality... 

Colocrossing won't say what happened.  They claim something legal related ongoing.

Saw a bid for EndofRelity that was floating around in search engines.   Weird deal with CC where CC was swapping out servers they were paying for and consolidating. So in essence reducing the servers.  Then on the back side, throwing EOR a pile of very old servers.   So they were basically giving them newer machines, but fewer in number then additionally giving them this incentive with the much older and smaller servers.

Very strange.  Invoice was something like $6k+ a month.  At that time EOR was overdue on invoices several months.

Unsure if what happened was just that further down the line or what.

Lots of people thought EOR was a front company...  Doesn't appear it was though.


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## dnom

Naruto said:


> You know how slow those Solus guys are at patching things.


Are you Naruto from LET? Sorry for the LET-style derailment.


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## AnthonySmith

Getting silly now, the problem is if someone has a private unpublished exploit or has found a hole then they will struggle to patch it, they obviously dont have much experience with these things as the fix pattern is obvious.

Hack 1) must have been vanilla, update vanilla and restore from backup

Hack 2) must have left a back door on first hack, reinstall all of LET and restore from backup

Hack 3) must have found an entry point via LEB reinstall everything.

Which probably means if hack 4 happens they will be all out of ideas, I don't really want to see the place die it's just business now after all any community spirit was ripped out by chief.


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## Naruto

dnom said:


> Are you Naruto from LET? Sorry for the LET-style derailment.


Yes. The one that was banned for basically saying what everyone now knows from the recent hacks. I wasn't the only one though.


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## Amitz

Can those CC people really be that cheeky? Whenever LET is down, this board slows down too from here and even WHT is having problems. Could be my ISP, seems more like DDOS. Shall there be any correlation?


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## MannDude

Amitz said:


> Can those CC people really be that cheeky? Whenever LET is down, this board slows down too from here and even WHT is having problems. Could be my ISP, seems more like DDOS. Shall there be any correlation?


"You'll never see it origination from _our_ network" is the typical response when questioned about it.


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## Naruto

MannDude said:


> "You'll never see it origination from _our_ network" is the typical response when questioned about it.


That's because they spoof it.


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## drmike

Yeah what MannDude said about has been said and repeated before from CC.

CC has documented ties in the past to hacker collectives.

Hackforums is no stranger to Colocrossing and ChicagoVPS:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=site:hackforums.net+colocrossing&oq=site:hackforums.net+colocrossing

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=site:hackforums.net+colocrossing&oq=site:hackforums.net+chicagovps


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## wlanboy

The second day of the drama. I do not think that the community will survive this. Both sides just crossed the line.

There is a lot of emotion to the whole topic. So LET is worth a lot - but destroying it just because someone thinks he is not getting a fare share?

After sleeping a night about all I have read I come to a sneaking suspicion that it is all about money. The hit was perfectly planned that could not be done offhanded.

My personal forcast:

LET will become the WHT for the LEB market. Noone will like it but noone can ignore it.


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## gsrdgrdghd

wlanboy said:


> The hit was perfectly planned that could not be done offhanded.


Not really, the exploit for Vanilla was just published 2-3 days before the hack. Someone might have seen it and just decided to hack LET.


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## Daniel

Naruto said:


> Yes. The one that was banned for basically saying what everyone now knows from the recent hacks. I wasn't the only one though.


You were banned for being a douchebag, the same reason you were banned from LowEndBox IRC.


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## Patrick

Daniel said:


> You were banned for being a douchebag, the same reason you were banned from LowEndBox IRC.


Not from what I heard, he was just saying the truth and now look it's publicly announced to


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## drmike

wlanboy said:


> The second day of the drama. I do not think that the community will survive this. Both sides just crossed the line.
> 
> There is a lot of emotion to the whole topic. So LET is worth a lot - but destroying it just because someone thinks he is not getting a fare share?
> 
> After sleeping a night about all I have read I come to a sneaking suspicion that it is all about money. The hit was perfectly planned that could not be done offhanded.
> 
> My personal forcast:
> 
> LET will become the WHT for the LEB market. Noone will like it but noone can ignore it.


Lines were crossed more than a year ago with the lies and many folks since then banned from LET.

LET was worth something more when it was a community ran and contributed place.   It has been crumbling ever since CC got hold of it.

I don't think the hacks have anything to do with someone getting screwed out of their "fair share".    Know there were lots of people who were about to do something about the site and out the info that was known/speculated.  But that was an info dump.  It wasn't hacking and defacement.

They banned a lot of people on LET.  Mocked tons of folks.   Lots of companies selling there were pushed around in ugly ways. 

It could be anyone doing this.  Frankly, if it were a very long time member of the site who contributed lots, I wouldn't be surprised.

LET to become WHT?   No chance of that happening.  it's a niche and already graphically overblown.  WHT covers nearly everything.  LET covers kids and cheapskates buying digital crack accounts.  Pigeon holed big time in the discount loss leader bracket.


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## serverian




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## Daniel

Patrick said:


> Not from what I heard, he was just saying the truth and now look it's publicly announced to


That probably added to it, but that was not the reason he was banned from the IRC channel. 


Sorry to be so blunt.


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## Naruto

Daniel said:


> That probably added to it, but that was not the reason he was banned from the IRC channel.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt.


Who, aside from the untouchables, was I a douche to?


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## drmike

Never were anything bad to me @Naruto.


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## wlanboy

buffalooed said:


> Lines were crossed more than a year ago with the lies and many folks since then banned from LET.
> 
> LET was worth something more when it was a community ran and contributed place.   It has been crumbling ever since CC got hold of it.


For me LET was ok. Not perfect, but ok. And if it was crumbling for over one year why do you care about a site that does not count any longer?

Why care about a site with no makred share - about a market that will fanish in some months? [According to your words...]

All that mocking, banning - the same cant I can read on a daily basis on people that do not like WHT. [That was my thought about LET == WHT]

And that is the point I do not like about the whole story.


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## drmike

LET = OK = shared idea.

LET counts just because of quantity of links and content pile.    Even if nothing new happens there, still will be good amount of inbound activity for content.  That's benefit of the size of the community contribution. 

WHT dislike is fairly overblown.  They moderate rather well.  Heavy at times, but usually very fair and infractions aren't mysterious.

WHT > LET and that isn't going to change.  

No way anyone with sense believes a host can operate such a site (LEB/LET) that is highly based around offers and be anything other than biased.  Couldn't believe them for a year plus, but now can?  Hmmm.

Did I say a market that will vanish?  No it won't.  But it certainly will see decreases in many ways.


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## wlanboy

buffalooed said:


> No way anyone with sense believes a host can operate such a site (LEB/LET) that is highly based around offers and be anything other than biased.


Tell me which "offer site" is not biased by ownership, ad payers or other backers?

I just can't believe where all this hate is coming from...


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## Francisco

wlanboy said:


> Tell me which "offer site" is not biased by ownership, ad payers or other backers?


WHT? They've banned countless corp members which are paying a lot of money for those memberships. Hostdime got the shaft for at least a decent amount of time. VPSLatch-Adam did and lost his account fully. FTN-Chris is on the ropes still as far as I know. "Kevin"'s premium account is also tied up.

WHT isn't perfect and I've been given a kick in the balls a few times by the mods but I always look into what I'm doing to earn infractions. The infraction system I think is the most reasonable system they have over there since the staff are all accountable. Bear for instance dropped the ball once thinking I was self promoing when instead I was recommending some shared hosting company I used in a previous life. Once I pointed it out the points were removed and bear apologized for the franning.

Francisco


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## Francisco

For me? I stopped putting much effort into the place once it was obvious the buyout had happened. I was already aware that the site was sold before we even signed up in Buffalo, I simply used it as a point to judge Jon's character.

Anyway, the mods always seemed to let certain drama threads continue, namely one involving some guy butthurt over our TOS/AUP. As usual Aldryic & Maounique (sp) went at it. After a while I simply got tired of it and we focused our energy on bigger projects.

There were other times that threads were closed quickly or 'sunk', especially the one where CVPS got SolusAPI'd.

Francisco


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## dominicl

I don't think LET is going to survive this. It's been down for a long time now, and I don't think they're going to be able to get it back up for any sustainable length of time.

I hope they will, but think they won't.


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## wlanboy

Francisco said:


> WHT?


Yup, they are big enough.

Hopefully everyone is calming down now. Everything is said. Everyone is knowing just how bad - the evil itself - they are. They are ddosed, hacked, defaced. I really hope that was enough for their bloodthirstiness.

And one last question: Was destroying LET really worth it?


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## raindog308

So is this "LET has been hacked a third time" or "we're still on hack #2".

I thought it was back after hack #2 and Liam posted that loony thread about how all would be different now.  

So I guess we're on hack #3.


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## shovenose

Yeah, Hack #3. I doubt it's coming back but I might be wrong.


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## Alto

shovenose said:


> Yeah, Hack #3. I doubt it's coming back but I might be wrong.


It's a commercial concern now remember, not a community site anymore. I strongly doubt JB and the gang are going to let all that ad revenue slip through their fingers without a bit more of a fight.


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## mikho

Wonder if the people with ads will get some extra time because of the downtime?


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## drmike

Francisco said:


> For me? I stopped putting much effort into the place once it was obvious the buyout had happened. I was already aware that the site was sold before we even signed up in Buffalo, I simply used it as a point to judge Jon's character.


So when exactly were you _aware _of the buy out?

Just me here, but I'd never had moved into Buffalo if I knew what you did.

Looking forward to a new BuyVM US east coast location in the near future.


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## Aldryic C'boas

buffalooed said:


> So when exactly were you _aware _of the buy out?
> 
> Just me here, but I'd never had moved into Buffalo if I knew what you did.
> 
> Looking forward to a new BuyVM US east coast location in the near future.


Jon wasn't the concern for us... our regret is that we didn't know about Chris (who was friendly to us at the time) and his.. involvement.. beforehand.  Keep in mind that by that point, we were already starting to avoid the whole LE* area due to all the drama in the community (and frankly, being associated with such did more harm than the 'benefit' of LEB listings).


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## Alto

mikho said:


> Wonder if the people with ads will get some extra time because of the downtime?


 

I would have thought so, given that the ads are sold through a 3rd party. I presume the contracts would have allowances for reasonable downtime, and it's gone well past that now.


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## drmike




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## jarland

Well if Chris is to be believed, then Jon has some major concerns on yet another front. According to Chris, Jon hired him to make himself look like he had more employees. So he hired someone with the intention of not using them for work, only to falsify employment records to someone? My guess is that whoever that "someone" is would be some form of government entity who would be a bit less than pleased to hear it.

Now matter how you spin the story or who's mouth you take it from, you never end up with a positive conclusion.


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## mnpeep

Here we go #4....


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## Zach

Round 4!


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## Boltersdriveer

jarland said:


> Well if Chris is to be believed, then Jon has some major concerns on yet another front. According to Chris, Jon hired him to make himself look like he had more employees. So he hired someone with the intention of not using them for work, only to falsify employment records to someone? My guess is that whoever that "someone" is would be some form of government entity who would be a bit less than pleased to hear it.
> 
> Now matter how you spin the story or who's mouth you take it from, you never end up with a positive conclusion.


If he does falsify employment records, who's to say he can't falsify the PnL and other accounting records for the salary the staff get?


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## Francisco

buffalooed said:


> So when exactly were you _aware _of the buy out?
> 
> Just me here, but I'd never had moved into Buffalo if I knew what you did.
> 
> Looking forward to a new BuyVM US east coast location in the near future.


Again, I was 99% sure he had bought the site given the conversations I had with Joel over the previous months.

I'm not going to up and move anything from Buffalo unless I get a *lot* of users demanding it. I don't

have issues with the service CC delivers, I just have issues with how they do business.


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## vanarp

Francisco said:


> I'm not going to up and move anything from Buffalo unless I get a *lot* of users demanding it. I don't
> 
> 
> have issues with the service CC delivers, I just have issues with how they do business.


If you don't mind answering, how much is your business worth for CC? More than the revenue from LEB/LET?


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## drmike

jarland said:


> Well if Chris is to be believed, then Jon has some major concerns on yet another front. According to Chris, Jon hired him to make himself look like he had more employees. So he hired someone with the intention of not using them for work, only to falsify employment records to someone? My guess is that whoever that "someone" is would be some form of government entity who would be a bit less than pleased to hear it.
> 
> Now matter how you spin the story or who's mouth you take it from, you never end up with a positive conclusion.


Yeah I don't know if CC is on the GSA schedule for government contacts, but I know they are in the database on a few cities as an approved company.

The CC contact information out there shows an employees name, an employee who has been gone from CC for a few years.  Yet another "employee" who didn't leave on good terms.

That said, good reason to fluff up their feathers and act like a Big Bird.


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## drmike

Boltersdriveer said:


> If he does falsify employment records, who's to say he can't falsify the PnL and other accounting records for the salary the staff get?


CC has tons of ghost staff.  Biloh is known to create staff as needed to BS mad customers.  He's done that for many years.

Related to the false accounting, lets just say CC has prior issues with not paying government entities, shortchanging employees and ripping customers.


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## drmike

Francisco said:


> I'm not going to up and move anything from Buffalo unless I get a *lot* of users demanding it. I don't
> 
> 
> have issues with the service CC delivers, I just have issues with how they do business.


Not one to jump on BuyVM, but this sounds bad.

You've long suspected CC/CVPS of piss poor behavior and scamming.

You moved into Buffalo suspecting a lot of these things.

Fabozzi continues to batter your team about things and has his sidekick doing the same (remember those stupid threads about configs from 3 years ago) and accused shilling?  

*"have issues with the service CC delivers, I just have issues with how they do business."*

CC screwed the low end sites.  Ruined the community.  Drove most of the offers to Buffalo.  All while banning folks, including the competition.

With all the CC lies and Fabozzi spouting similar mistruth who can prove their relationship unless I go to their HQs and seize the records? 

You knew better than to own LEB/LET.  Were wise about passing it elsewhere via Joel/Chief. Joel only cared about the money.

Sounds like BuyVM is buying Buffalo for the same reason everyone else is - the cheap price. That's not a good reason to be there.  The network it isn't what it was and isn't what you bought when you signed up.   You can't offer filtering and native IPV6 there. 

Biggest reason to move, you don't do business with serial liars and sociopaths.

I'd advise shopping around.


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## Tux

I agree with @buffalooed fully.

I think I'll be sticking here longer.


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## Aldryic C'boas

buffalooed said:


> Sounds like BuyVM is buying Buffalo for the same reason everyone else is - the cheap price.



Not quite accurate.  Like Fran mentioned - the service we've had there is fine, and the times we did have to utilize their support... well, we weren't disappointed by the results.  It's the _dramatis person_


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## drmike




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## CVPS_Chris

jarland said:


> According to Chris, Jon hired him to make himself look like he had more employees.


I never said he hired me. Again twisting my words, making issues worse than they are.


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## WelltodoInformalCattle

buffalooed said:


> You would do better parting ways with CC in the eyes of many.  Know I am not the only one thinking all this, I just have the stones to say it out loud.



Methinks it's not about people not speaking out against CC. A significant number of customers in that location would bitch and moan about another move.


----------



## Francisco

WelltodoInformalCattle said:


> Methinks it's not about people not speaking out against CC. A significant number of customers in that location would bitch and moan about another move.


Right.

Yes, the network changed but I'm a realist in this. There was no way Jon would be able to provide me a full gig unmetered of pure Level3, with rack/power, & the admin time he includes for the whopping $1000/m he charges us.

From the stand point of raw numbers Jon's probably breaking even on us or making a little bit. That'll be because we rarely use even a single admin hour. We used a few when we moved in and recently I had Alex do some network adjustments but prior to that the last time I even talked to support was in *January* when they forgot to add our subnets to their new network.

WireSix was originally going to be our pick for the east coast but Jon insisted he could match the offer and threw in some admin time.

We've been lucky in Buffalo since we've not been caught in any of the generator issues they've had (2 I think) nor has our power strip suffered any software faults. Unless CC's actions *directly* affects our customers in Buffalo (Jon drops our transit to 100mbit/sec, ratelimits us, favours our routes over a T1 line, etc) then I'm not going to put our clients through the headache.

From the stand point of PR? I know countless hosts that signed up in Buffalo on the basis that "Well BuyVM is there", so that has landed them tons of business.

We decided a while back that it's unlikely we'll put anything more in Buffalo and will simply open a 3rd location elsewhere when we all have the twitch.

It's likely we'll have to start pushing out lots of POP's all over the place, especially if the feature set Stallion 2's planned to get come true.

Francisco


----------



## udk

Francisco said:


> It's likely we'll have to start pushing out lots of POP's all over the place, especially if the feature set Stallion 2's planned to get come true.


I await that day (Europe please!!)


----------



## drmike

Francisco said:


> Yes, the network changed but I'm a realist in this. There was no way Jon would be able to provide me a full gig unmetered of pure Level3, with rack/power, & the admin time he includes for the whopping $1000/m he charges us.
> 
> From the stand point of PR? I know countless hosts that signed up in Buffalo on the basis that "Well BuyVM is there", so that has landed them tons of business.
> 
> 
> We decided a while back that it's unlikely we'll put anything more in Buffalo and will simply open a 3rd location elsewhere when we all have the twitch.
> 
> 
> It's likely we'll have to start pushing out lots of POP's all over the place, especially if the feature set Stallion 2's planned to get come true.


Thanks as always Fran. 


$1k a month, so it is about that dolla dolla ya'll.  Crazy low price there, but I am not privy to your details and I am not grilling you.  Sweetheart loss leader there to lure the pack animals.  Grrr...

3rd location === are we considering another US location currently?  Know Europe has been a teaser, but think the spread between Buffalo and Vegas is a bit 'wide'.   US central, or US Southeast maybe?

Stallion2 looks superb.   Can see the need to diversify locations.

I have my fingers crossed you folks don't end up being served in the meat section due to the insurrection.  You know horses = meat in today's economy.


----------



## Francisco

buffalooed said:


> Thanks as always Fran.
> 
> $1k a month, so it is about that dolla dolla ya'll.  Crazy low price there, but I am not privy to your details and I am not grilling you.  Sweetheart loss leader there to lure the pack animals.  Grrr...
> 
> 3rd location === are we considering another US location currently?  Know Europe has been a teaser, but think the spread between Buffalo and Vegas is a bit 'wide'.   US central, or US Southeast maybe?
> 
> Stallion2 looks superb.   Can see the need to diversify locations.
> 
> I have my fingers crossed you folks don't end up being served in the meat section due to the insurrection.  You know horses = meat in today's economy.


Wiredsix offered us the exact same deal, that's where Jon got the idea of the offer. Wiresix/Ryan have been doing gig + a rack for $99/m. The hours Jon included were a really nice touch but I've honestly not used enough to say it was a deciding factor at this point. I think since we've racked up we've used < 10 hours total of the included time.

Jon has been smart to make sure he has enough IP's to float him through any deal he wants. At this point he's into the /16+ 'total' crowed meaning his prices won't go up until he has like a /14 or something. Given IP's are billed yearly he's well into the position that he can simply include ip's for free to nail down a deal. Before he noticed we had our own blocks he was fine allocating us whatever IP space we needed.

The reason I bring up IP's is because there aren't many "VPS friendly" providers in the US and pretty much none in Europe. There are a few providers in the US that will still allocate you decent sized blocks but usually the blocks are quite dirty or the actual server costs are too much.

He's done well to protect one of his core markets.

Francisco


----------



## GVH-Jon

Reece said:


> And Colocrossing whom own numerous companies/brands etc don't have a clue about patching there shit...
> 
> 
> So much for security from your "data center" I do wonder what other holes do lay open currently within there network.. when they can't even keep there main source for *false adverising* secure.
> 
> I've been browsing LET for some time, joined and now I'd like to leave


Maybe that's because they didn't create Vanilla Forums.

Jon Biloh did not hire Chris. Chris was never a ColoCrossing employee. CC is a great company, there's lots of companies who have owned property and kept silent about it. It's not a big deal, everyone just needs to move on.


----------



## drmike

I'll accept that as an answer @Francisco 

WIresix right?  Been on my radar too.

They use [email protected] locations and I like RyanD.  Straight shooters.

They do have Clifton, NJ, a good local instead of Buffalo 

IP allocation games need smashed with IPV6 and the market changes.  Getting out of control with both idle IPs and surcharges for IPs.

I'll give CC credit for being ahead of the curve on this and carving out a market on that point.


----------



## Francisco

buffalooed said:


> I'll accept that as an answer @Francisco
> 
> WIresix right?  Been on my radar too.
> 
> They use [email protected] locations and I like RyanD.  Straight shooters.
> 
> They do have Clifton, NJ, a good local instead of Buffalo
> 
> IP allocation games need smashed with IPV6 and the market changes.  Getting out of control with both idle IPs and surcharges for IPs.
> 
> I'll give CC credit for being ahead of the curve on this and carving out a market on that point.


[email protected] is Ryan  Wiresix was his first company and [email protected] was created later on. He also has ...Total Server Solutions? For fully managed dedicated servers/colocation.

Francisco


----------



## drmike

RIght right   I'll never challenge a pony to quiz bowl.  

Good locations from Ryan and if he can deliver at similar price points I say get the wagon hitched and start the expansion pal.

Where the pony goes, the others will follow.

Crickets


----------



## Francisco

I'm pretty sure his NJ spot is just a POP and not something he pushes all that heavy. 

His big spots are going to be Atlanta & LA. His LA spot is where CC has a cage/few cabs. They have/had a Dallas cage as well I think.

Francisco


----------



## drmike

GVH-Jon said:


> Jon Biloh did not hire Chris. Chris was never a ColoCrossing employee. CC is a great company, there's lots of companies who have owned property and kept silent about it. It's not a big deal, everyone just needs to move on.


Now how in the heck do you know this?  Cause Chris said so?

Yeah.

So you trust Chris but call CC a liar? 

But either way, whoever you subscribe to Biloh and CC own it in Buffalo....

So you trust your company with a company who manufactures employees, makes fake stories, lies about involvement, etc. Oh to be young.


----------



## drmike

Francisco said:


> I'm pretty sure his NJ spot is just a POP and not something he pushes all that heavy.
> 
> 
> His big spots are going to be Atlanta & LA. His LA spot is where CC has a cage/few cabs. They have/had a Dallas cage as well I think.
> 
> 
> Francisco


Atlanta has been their stomping grounds for a long time.

I am sure they'll grow out and ride the pony wave when you start exploding in growth.


----------



## jarland

CVPS_Chris said:


> I never said he hired me. Again twisting my words, making issues worse than they are.
> 
> There is no involvment. What are you even saying? Grow up and stop spreading lies.


Wait, so you're telling me that it's better that he simply did it to completely lie and didn't even bother with the actual employment papers to make it a half lie? How is that not worse than what I stated? I wonder what the IRS has on file.

Whatever though, not my problem


----------



## Francisco

buffalooed said:


> Atlanta has been their stomping grounds for a long time.
> 
> I am sure they'll grow out and ride the pony wave when you start exploding in growth.


Ryan doesn't target the budget market. Wiresix has always been his playground to get into the budget game. It likely makes a very small hunk of his bottom line and is more so for trolling I feel 

I've had service with him in the past. Back when I ran a decent sized torrent site and DAIRC full time I had 2 dedi's with him. Service was solid, as was the network considering it was just Telia + Old-Cogent.

Francisco


----------



## drmike

jarland said:


> Wait, so you're telling me that it's better that he simply did it to completely lie and didn't even bother with the actual employment papers to make it a half lie? How is that not worse than what I stated? I wonder what the IRS has on file.
> 
> Whatever though, not my problem


Don't even bring up the tax authorities.   Buffalos hate taxes.  Shh.

I like this:



> _ColoCrossing_ was the obvious choice


----------



## Marc M.

buffalooed said:


> Don't even bring up the tax authorities.   Buffalos hate taxes.  Shh.
> 
> I like this:
> 
> The key words, "MANAGING PARTNER".
> 
> A partner has, well another partner.
> 
> Who is that partner Chris?


----------



## drmike

I know who that managing partner is...Waiting for the answer.  First name begins with N.

Never mind the masturbation job on Jere.   Telling him he had equity.  Stripping him of that.  Word is bird that when CC "rescued" after the hack that jonBi took that other portion of the company.  Doubt your LLC has shares and paperwork indicating other ownership.

Wasn't BuffaloVPS ran by Jere?  Right after that other Adam fellow disappeared into the dark of night.

The old lowendadmin was up your asses.  You know why.  Quack quack.


----------



## Marc M.

I would thread carefully @buffalooed because Chris might...





buffalooed said:


> I know who that managing partner is...Waiting for the answer.  First name begins with N.
> 
> Never mind the masturbation job on Jere.   Telling him he had equity.  Stripping him of that.  Word is bird that when CC "rescued" after the hack that jonBi took that other portion of the company.  Doubt your LLC has shares and paperwork indicating other ownership.
> 
> Wasn't BuffaloVPS ran by Jere?  Right after that other Adam fellow disappeared into the dark of night.
> 
> The old lowendadmin was up your asses.  You know why.  Quack quack.


----------



## MannDude

Jeeze. What is this, #5?


----------



## drmike

marcm said:


> I would thread carefully @buffalooed because Chris might...


Humourous @marcm.    I just go straight to lead poisoning on fools.  The clip is loaded.


----------



## Novacha

It seems as if vanillaforums.org is also having some trouble... I believe LET is now being hosted there, right?


----------



## drmike

alterarch said:


> It seems as if vanillaforums.org is also having some trouble... I believe LET is now being hosted there, right?


Yes sir,  now LET has caused Vanillaforums to go down perhaps.... That would be a classic #fail if true.

I suspect if they cause too many problems they will find themselves migrating to another forums software and hosting provider.  They should have changes software among the waves of hacks.


----------



## dmmcintyre3

Saw this on LET:


*Application:* Vanilla
*Application Version:* 2.1a39
*PHP Version:* 5.3.3-1ubuntu9.10
*Operating System:* Linux
*Server Software:* nginx/1.0.5
*User Agent:* Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/537.31 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/26.0.1410.65 Safari/537.31
*Request Uri:* /
*Controller:* Gdn_Database
*Method:* Query


Seriously, nginx/1.0.5 (19 Jul 2011) and ubuntu9.10


----------



## MannDude

Jeeze!



http://support.vanillaforfree.com/


----------



## Zen

I'm surprised that out of everyone on the CC team they do not have any reputable sys admin that can fix things up security wise.


----------



## drmike

Zen said:


> I'm surprised that out of everyone on the CC team they do not have any reputable sys admin that can fix things up security wise.


Like I've said, they can't keep good people there.


----------



## dmmcintyre3




----------



## drmike

Now LET has google bombed themselves:

http://www.google.com/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=lowendtalk

#1 result

Offers - LOW END SHIT - _LowEndTalk_

www.*lowendtalk*.com/categories/offers?



 



 

25GB of Usenet credit Blocknews swap it for a VPS minimum 64MB in Europe *...*


----------



## OnePoundWebHosting

Appears to be back up now.........


----------



## drmike

Why aren't people posting on LET?   Are new posts not allowed/blocked?  Seems like only replies happening.


----------



## thisisnotnetomx

I cant even enter


----------



## Oxide

buffalooed said:


> Why aren't people posting on LET?   Are new posts not allowed/blocked?  Seems like only replies happening.


 

Yeah, it won't let me post a new thread.



thisisnotnetomx said:


> I cant even enter


 

Why not, did you issue a password reset?


----------



## drmike

Yikes, so members have to manually jump through the password reset routine?  Half the people on LET won't get through that hurdle


----------



## wlanboy

buffalooed said:


> Why aren't people posting on LET?   Are new posts not allowed/blocked?  Seems like only replies happening.


I tried a reply - it worked. I tried a new thread - timeout.

Someone posted the information that the passwords were stored in plaintext. So you should change them.


----------



## drmike

wlanboy said:


> I tried a reply - it worked. I tried a new thread - timeout.
> 
> Someone posted the information that the passwords were stored in plaintext. So you should change them.


That's mighty bad.  Makes sense why the site is quiet.

Plaintext leak + email addresses leaked is real bad.

Unsure what laws cover this, but this is second mass compromise of customer/user info in less than a year in that Buffalo location.


----------



## Zen

Passwords are not stored in plain text on vanilla.


----------



## drmike

Zen said:


> Passwords are not stored in plain text on vanilla.


I saw some hashes on screencaps.  Those are intended to be "secure".

Someone said, but no one confirmed that the salt or something related was known.

Unsure if any export of data happened.


----------



## xBytez

MannDude said:


> Jeeze!
> 
> 
> 
> http://support.vanillaforfree.com/


$Configuration['Database']['Engine']                           = 'MySQL';

$Configuration['Database']['Name'] = 'vanillaforfree';

$Configuration['Database']['Host'] = '127.0.0.1' ;

$Configuration['Database']['User'] = 'vanillaforfree';

$Configuration['Database']['Password'] = 'vanilla123!';

wow perfect password.


----------



## Oxide

Woohoo! Able to create new threads on LET now I'm starting to see new topics. Glad to see some progress being made. However I don't know how I feel about Vanilla after all of this...


----------



## vanarp

Oxide said:


> Woohoo! Able to create new threads on LET now I'm starting to see new topics. Glad to see some progress being made. However I don't know how I feel about Vanilla after all of this...


Even their official forums are back http://vanillaforums.org


----------



## drmike

First thread looks to be... @marcm telling them to fix the DNS mess up.   And.... people jump on @marcm for pointing it out.

So much for all the hostiles leaving LET


----------



## mnpeep

And google is posting LET links with www.

Can't someone just add a CNAME to www?


----------



## MannDude

mnpeep said:


> And google is posting LET links with www.
> 
> Can't someone just add a CNAME to www?


Off topic, but this was the 3,000 post.


----------



## netnub

lol let is 403 again.


----------



## MannDude

netnub said:


> lol let is 403 again.


http://www.intodns.com/lowendtalk.com

It 'is' up, just not accessible to probably half or more of it's visitors. It's been like that since yesterday evening. Try using TOR or a VPN or something if you need to access it.


----------



## concerto49

- otherwise known as the forth impact (I saved a screenshot too)


----------



## MannDude

So, did LET use _FREE_ Vanilla hosting and *not* the paid hosted Vanilla service? I mean, sure, the hosted Vanilla service they'd need would be $550/mo or more. But that's well within the limit considering the ad-revenue it brings in. It's comical enough they sought out a hosted solution considering the site is owned by a DC, but if they went for a free solution.. Well, then. That's just ridiculous.


----------



## netnub

MannDude said:


> So, did LET use _FREE_ Vanilla hosting and *not* the paid hosted Vanilla service? I mean, sure, the hosted Vanilla service they'd need would be $550/mo or more. But that's well within the limit considering the ad-revenue it brings in. It's comical enough they sought out a hosted solution considering the site is owned by a DC, but if they went for a free solution.. Well, then. That's just ridiculous.


LOL. They did? I thought they used some "premium" colocrossing dedicated servers


----------



## ryan

They keep falling back to an outdated nginx which leads me to believe they are just restoring from a backup...  They seriously just need to wipe the box and start fresh, this is just..... bad...


----------



## mnpeep

Place your bets to see when #6 is going to happen.

I will guess within 48 hours. LET is chugging along VERY SLOWLY right now.


----------



## netnub

mnpeep said:


> Place your bets to see when #6 is going to happen.
> 
> I will guess within 48 hours. LET is chugging along VERY SLOWLY right now.


lowendbutthurt


----------



## Kyle

I wonder when they're going to just give up... or is this just a publicity stunt for both LET, LEB and CC? This is happening way to much to be a random attack so It's ether them or someone *really* pissed of at them.


----------



## drmike

Kyle said:


> I wonder when they're going to just give up... or is this just a publicity stunt for both LET, LEB and CC? This is happening way to much to be a random attack so It's ether them or someone *really* pissed of at them.


Dollar bills.

All those knucklheads care about is the money.  If some accounts of $50k spent to buy LET/LEB, they aren't anywhere near break even point of milking the community.

Flurry of offers on LET and most of them are on CC's network.  It's funny, but not real funny.

Someone from Vanilla was doing "admin" work and added some new feature to public side and the natives took issue and started chest thumping him.

A thread or two about banning users based on their posts that were posted today.

It's a circus over there.  Total short bus pile up.


----------



## mikho

Kyle said:


> I wonder when they're going to just give up... or is this just a publicity stunt for both LET, LEB and CC? This is happening way to much to be a random attack so It's ether them or someone *really* pissed of at them.


CC can't give up now... to much money involved.


----------



## bzImage

I lost count. How many times has it been hacked now??


----------



## Kyle

bzImage said:


> I lost count. How many times has it been hacked now??


About 6.25 Million times . Just kidding, I think like 6?


----------



## drmike

bzImage said:


> I lost count. How many times has it been hacked now??


Well, unofficially, in excess of four times.

I am thinking 5 or 6.


----------



## raindog308

LET is giving me the "overcapacity" error now.

I'm wondering if LET is paying the $149/month or $549/month vanillaforums plan.  $149/month for a dedicated server for a popular forum...maybe...$549/month to host LET...ouch.


----------



## wdq

They have to be paying at least the $549 because https://lowendtalk.com works.


----------



## mikho

raindog308 said:


> LET is giving me the "overcapacity" error now.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if LET is paying the $149/month or $549/month vanillaforums plan. $149/month for a dedicated server for a popular forum...maybe...$549/month to host LET...ouch.


I've been seeing that allost every refresh I've made today. If it can't handle the current load, what in the world will happen when get back to "normal" traffic-wise.


----------



## MannDude

mikho said:


> I've been seeing that allost every refresh I've made today. If it can't handle the current load, what in the world will happen when get back to "normal" traffic-wise.


Looking around at this place, I do not know if they will get back to 'normal', in regards to their old traffic. If they're paying that much and still getting load errors, I guess we could do them a favor and convert more members to come here. =]


----------



## mikho

Probably some old members will continue posting there but there will be more and more lurkers, people who sign up and then never post anything.


Something needs to be done by the team behind leb/let and they need to make it quick.


----------



## Dillybob

I cannot stand viewing the topic listings on LET anymore, everything is cluttered and it's just a mess...  it's so irritating, and I know I am not the only one..


----------



## WelltodoInformalCattle

Dillybob said:


> I cannot stand viewing the topic listings on LET anymore, everything is cluttered and it's just a mess...  it's so irritating, and I know I am not the only one..


 

Here's the solution: stop going there.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

WelltodoInformalCattle said:


> Here's the solution: stop going there.


 
Boom!  Yeah I actually haven't been there in a while except to check up on my bookmarked discussions.


----------



## drmike

MannDude said:


> Looking around at this place, I do not know if they will get back to 'normal', in regards to their old traffic. If they're paying that much and still getting load errors, I guess we could do them a favor and convert more members to come here. =]


LET is a frail broken version of itself now.   

Traffic on LET never made much sense to me.   Go look at Alexa and the top countries for LET.  You seeing anything like that for buying customer country origin?   I've long believed they are brokering traffic and much of it isn't real.

Post amounts and volume of posts isn't anything near where it use to be.  But, it had been slumping for a while while traffic rank and ad rates kept climbing; two opposing directions that don't match.

The Offers, well, still plenty of CC network offers.  Even those offers are starting to crush the bottom line and drive cost down even more.  Any long term provider knows LET/LEB buys have plummeted from offers.

Until they show their faces, clean up issues, state why they lied and all the related major issues, there is a full third of the former community I guess that is less than interested in participating over there.  Plus you have account breeches and paranoia about accounts users are now scarred by.

Worst thing that ever happened was Colocrossing being proven as the owner and forced to admit such.


----------



## drmike

I like these merry go round threads we see rather often on LET:



> I am in need of a vps for a minecraft server.. Any mainstream linux (Centos, Ubuntu ect..) - VPS software (Open or vm, doesnt matter) - Ram (2GB Min and higher) - Uplink (100mbps bare min)



First reply, a provider who I believe sells out of Colocrossing chimes in with... ChicagoVPS.

If I give the thread another day, it will blossom into snickering about that recommendation, a few mentions of another provider and little to nothing else.

How many times can the same goop be posed as content and people seriously not be searching first.


----------



## Naruto

IcyLiquid has the same attitude as CVPS_Chris but at least he seems to be an honest fellow whereas Chris is blatantly obvious about his lies like he doesn't even try to cover it up as if his word still means anything.


----------



## MannDude

Sort of makes me wonder how many businesses actually _rely_ on LE* to actually stay in business. I wonder how many of these folks solicit elsewhere, or how much business they get from non LE* sources.


----------



## vanarp

buffalooed said:


> How many times can the same goop be posed as content and people seriously not be searching first.


 

I somehow do not like the kind of forums that advise me to search the forum before posting any question. I know the veterans of any forum do not like the same content being asked again and again but think from a newbie perspective. Whoever has come to ask such a thing is obviously not an active member of the forum a while and is just checking to see if there are any useful suggestions/recommendations. Most likely he is done with the forum once he has the answers he is looking for. But, the friendly forum members can make a difference and [probably] make him a part of the community by responding patiently.


----------



## drmike

vanarp said:


> Most likely he is done with the forum once he has the answers he is looking for. But, the friendly forum members can make a difference and [probably] make him a part of the community by responding patiently.


True.

The problem with such questions is typically the responses are from providers with material interest in making the recommendations they are.  Shilling we call that.

Bigger picture issue is posters like that show up on LET quite often.  It should almost be a prohibited type of post on there.

To point, there is is a need to for asking for input from time to time.   Even perhaps that post could be valid, if and where the community was responding opposed to just a pile of providers doing their merchants in the temple impersonation.  Unless of course, the poster were asking for providers to "bid" or recommend their own service (i.e. I am looking for providers who can offer me this).  

Irks me often that providers jump on threads like those and little to no input from end customers/users.  Makes it look like there are no paying customers.


----------



## drmike

Naruto said:


> IcyLiquid has the same attitude as CVPS_Chris but at least he seems to be an honest fellow whereas Chris is blatantly obvious about his lies like he doesn't even try to cover it up as if his word still means anything.


Wasn't IcyLiquid the Vanilla Forums admin? Why is he still lingering?

Chris is capable of being honest.  Just don't ask him about his business or anything Colocrossing related.  He's no dummy.  

As for Chris' attitude,  it's a routine and persona --- branding for him.  Again he's no dummy and capable of behaving and being rational.

Those two are unrelated accounts though.  Nearly certain of that.


----------



## mikho

buffalooed said:


> Wasn't IcyLiquid the Vanilla Forums admin? Why is he still lingering?


Atleast he was/is Vanillaforums staff.


 The one "testing" stuff on a live site


----------



## drmike

mikho said:


> Atleast he was/is Vanillaforums staff.
> 
> 
> The one "testing" stuff on a live site


Shows what quality software Vanilla DOESN'T have.

Saw some of the threads of the confused natives on Lowendtalk.

Someone needs to go register lowendhack.com and start the parroting and parodies.


----------



## mikho

I checked my old lowendbox emails  (google apps login still works !?) and some skype logs...

trying to find when Chief told me about the CC ad was added to the frontpage of LEB, but I cann ot find it.

something that I did find was the helpdesk cost (according to Joel, the monthly PRO version).


----------



## MannDude

mikho said:


> I checked my old lowendbox emails  (google apps login still works !?) and some skype logs...
> 
> trying to find when Chief told me about the CC ad was added to the frontpage of LEB, but I cann ot find it.
> 
> something that I did find was the helpdesk cost (according to Joel, the monthly PRO version).


What helpdesk are they using anyhow? I remember seeing it a while back and have seen screenshots of "Stephanie's" activity but couldn't figure out what the helpdesk was. Did they ever say who Stephanie was, or is that just another alias as we all suspect for a CC employee or one of their buds?


----------



## Alto

MannDude said:


> Did they ever say who Stephanie was, or is that just another alias as we all suspect for a CC employee or one of their buds?


 


I thought it was established that she was one of Joel's employees, much like Zahra.


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## mikho

MannDude said:


> What helpdesk are they using anyhow? I remember seeing it a while back and have seen screenshots of "Stephanie's" activity but couldn't figure out what the helpdesk was. Did they ever say who Stephanie was, or is that just another alias as we all suspect for a CC employee or one of their buds?


Arcticdesk was/is being used. Haven't checked if my login still works, would be surprised if it did.

To my knowledge, Zahra was employed by Joel doing other stuff, not related to LEB/LET in the beginning. When Joel decided that the LEB team wouldn't post at the speed that the offers come out today, Zahra was introduced.

Att his time, the LEB team was never informed about this. Only after asking Joel multiple times, he "confessed".

Regarding Stephanie; I have no idea, perhaps it's another one who was employed by Joel, could be a CC worker..... i guess we will never know.


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## MannDude

Alto said:


> I thought it was established that she was one of Joel's employees, much like Zahra.


Really? Where was this. When brought up, it'd be dismissed. I heard through the grapevine that the IP was a Colocrossing IP (which just means it was a VPN on their network likely), that combined with the fact there was _no one_ who came up when you searched 'her' first+last name led everyone to believe she was simply an alias for someone else. Most people in the industry will have _some_ sort of online presence. A linkedIN, a personal site, _something._ None of the other mods or writers were aware of who she was, and she was specifically giving orders to them, "Hey do not post this until I give you the go-ahead". I think 'she' made one post on LEB, and no more. Strange situation indeed.


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## drmike

All those fake accounts were likely Jon Biloh, Alex Vial and others at Colocrossing. 

Biloh is infamous for creating fake humans to deflect attention.

Joel employing people and running low end sites, I just don't believe that. He may have for a few months into the CC move and did some token stuff along the way, but his puppet ass was being being string pulled by Biloh and crew.


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