# Do you have health insurance?



## MannDude (Jul 15, 2014)

We've got a globally diverse group here, some of which live in nations with supplied healthcare and others in places who do not provide it. Curious who here has health insurance and who does not. If you have it, do you pay for it out of pocket (not with your taxes) to a provider each month? How much?

If you don't have health insurance, why not?


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## drmike (Jul 15, 2014)

Bahaha... here comes political rant in 3...2...1...

See I never understood why "health" care doesn't reward you for health.... Pay towards preventative things - like proper nutrition, exercise, non ingestion of poisions.... and of course such NEVER seems to cover dental when dental issues are linked to a multitude of things that can and do kill masses of people every year...  You can go to a foot specialist and get custom shoes, but you can't go get your teeth (which are bones) cared for...

Instead health care is OH F*CK coverage for when you are UNHEALTHY.

It's false advertising.   It's UNHEALTHCARE.

I am not UNHEALTHY and while some like to gamble at casinos, I "gamble" with the healthcare coverage.. I am unlikely to get UNHEALTHY any time soon, because I invest in staying well and healthy.  So why should I invest in OH F*CK coverage? and why should I be extorted from by law to dillute the risk pool?  No thanks...


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## MannDude (Jul 16, 2014)

Oh yeah, no healthcare here. Employer doesn't offer it. I can't / don't want to afford it out of pocket and don't want to be forced to have it either. Ideally for me, I should be able to go visit a doctor if needed and pay cash out of pocket without it being insane. If I need emergency treatment to an injury, ideally it wouldn't bankrupt me. But hey, that's not how the world works.


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## PwnyExpress (Jul 16, 2014)

Man, I sure do love living in Canada - Health care's paid for by the government via tax payer funded dollars


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## drmike (Jul 16, 2014)

In big population areas I am seeing a massive increase of walk in non emergency alternative healthcare facilities...  These are for profit businesses for common medical matters... Supposedly semi-reasonable for services.  Take it there market is the whiney folks who run to emergency rooms for fevers, random things... plus I believe they do stitches and related small injury matters and run of the mill broken bones (both of which I've done myself in the past).

Medical care isn't per se expensive.  What is expensive is the face rate on the bill they send you.

Insurers pay NOTHING like what you get billed.  A $10k bill from a hospital might be pack rate $2k... They set accepted reimbursement rates for a laundry list of common things with the insurers and that is why your insurance is accepted here and not there...  Some insurers want to reimburse so little that the care provider can't or won't operate at those rates.


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## devonblzx (Jul 16, 2014)

drmike said:


> See I never understood why "health" care doesn't reward you for health.... Pay towards preventative things - like proper nutrition, exercise, non ingestion of poisions.... and of course such NEVER seems to cover dental when dental issues are linked to a multitude of things that can and do kill masses of people every year...  You can go to a foot specialist and get custom shoes, but you can't go get your teeth (which are bones) cared for...


I understand where you are coming from.  I think it would be smart for insurance companies to offer discounts, just like safe driving and such, or for more instances of health savings accounts.  However, the way our health "insurance" works in the States is not really insurance at all.  Insurance is generally for catastrophic events: you total your car, you burn down your house, etc.   Our health insurance covers everything from regular checkups, prescriptions, emergency room visits, and yes even catastrophic events like surgery or long hospital stays.   Auto insurance doesn't cover oil changes and engine issues.

Truly I think medicine would be much cheaper in the US if health insurance was actually insurance.  It would make us realize the cost of medicine rather than just relying on the insurance company to make their "deals" and choose who we can go see (preferred networks).  If all consumers actually paid direct for medicine, people would shop around for prescriptions inducing competition, hospitals wouldn't get away with charging $100 for a tooth brush because everyone in their right mind would be complaining unlike how it is now when people look at the bill and discard it because they have insurance.  Just my two cents.


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## Coastercraze (Jul 16, 2014)

My day job provides it, so yes I have it.

I do wish though that places like hospitals would actually charge for things fairly. Seems ridiculous to charge $200 for a few aspirin (which the insurance companies usually knock down to like $50). That's probably our biggest problem.

Back to insurance, if you have an illness, companies were able to drop you and if you found someone, it'd be like $2000 a month for a barebones policy.

Well, they can't drop you anymore, but that doesn't change the fact they still will charge you nearly $2000 /mo for it.


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## PwnyExpress (Jul 16, 2014)

drmike said:


> Insurers pay NOTHING like what you get billed.  A $10k bill from a hospital might be pack rate $2k... They set accepted reimbursement rates for a laundry list of common things with the insurers and that is why your insurance is accepted here and not there...  Some insurers want to reimburse so little that the care provider can't or won't operate at those rates.


The way how most provincial health insurance programs work here is, they have a maximum rate they'll reimburse to the health care provider for services performed on the patient. And since there's a single payor system in place, the hospitals get reimbursed on what the provincial health care dictates.


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## iWF-Jacob (Jul 16, 2014)

Yep, my day job provides it. Good ol' government!


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## KuJoe (Jul 16, 2014)

Yes I have insurance for me and my family through my primary employer. I pay $369.32 per month and my company pays the difference ($1061.76 per month). Additionally, my company gives me a pre-paid credit card that has $1000 on it that I can use towards anything health related including my co-pays.

Overall I'm very happy with my health insurance, it's improved quiet a bit (at least compared to what it was 4 years ago). I shopped around to see if I could get health care cheaper if I purchased it outside of my company and I could save about $50 a month with a plan that covers all of my needs but nothing extra, but saving $50 per month still doesn't match the $1000 my company gives me each year so I'll stick with the better coverage. I also get to opt for more expensive extras since I'm not paying out of pocket (for example: it's an extra $50 for nitrous oxide at the dentist so I opt for it every time now, might as well enjoy yourself while you're there right?). Now if I end up using less than $600 of that $1000 then I'm paying more per year but since I can use that cache towards eye glasses I'll just take the balance each year and get an eye exam and a new pair (or two) of glasses.


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## wlanboy (Jul 16, 2014)

I do have one.

It is a goverment driven health care system where I am able to buy addons from health ensurance companies.

I am paying about $300 a month for it. My wife and my child are included.

Childs and infants and mums don't have to pay anything. Even for more costly treatments.

In my opinion it is about equal payments.

Everyone is paying the same amount and because of that there is enough money left for the costly things - right because noone has ever to pay more for something.


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## MartinD (Jul 16, 2014)

In this day and age it's ridiculous to think that in some countries, if you are seriously ill or injured you have to PAY someone to fix you, make you better, cure your illness, stop you from dying.

In a world where billions are traded every day for consumables and millions are given to charities there should be no country, anywhere, that requires payment or insurance from patients in order to be treated.


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## jhadley (Jul 16, 2014)

Yes I do. I don't want to deal with the NHS if I'm seriously ill.


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## DomainBop (Jul 16, 2014)

> who here has health insurance


I do..



> how much?


Too much but the small business health care tax credit and deductions for employee health care premiums ease the pain somewhat.



> Oh yeah, no healthcare here. Employer doesn't offer it.


I'll just leave you with these 2 links.  There are some hosting companies out there that provide their employees with competitive wages and generous benefit packages.  Singlehop provides medical, dental, and vision insurance.  Linode also offers health insurance. 

http://www.singlehop.com/about/careers/

https://www.linode.com/careers

At the other end of the scale are some of the hosting companies that pay their outsourced contract workers sweatshop level wages and offer no benefits.



> In this day and age it's ridiculous to think that in some countries, if you are seriously ill or injured you have to PAY someone to fix you, make you better, cure your illness, stop you from dying.


It's even more ridiculous that in many of those same countries if you don't have the money to pay someone to fix you, and aren't eligible for any government assistance, you won't get the needed health care and you very well might die.


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## mtwiscool (Jul 16, 2014)

I'm in the UK so it is not needed at all.

Socialist system FTW

And read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10907823/Britains-NHS-is-the-worlds-best-health-care-system-says-report.html


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## sv01 (Jul 16, 2014)

yes, my day job provides it. $50/m


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## HostUS-Alexander (Jul 16, 2014)

UK Free NHS health care, also with my day job I get free private health care as well with 'Bupa'.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jul 16, 2014)

drmike said:


> Bahaha... here comes political rant in 3...2...1...
> 
> See I never understood why "health" care doesn't reward you for health.... Pay towards preventative things - like proper nutrition, exercise, non ingestion of poisions.... and of course such NEVER seems to cover dental when dental issues are linked to a multitude of things that can and do kill masses of people every year...  You can go to a foot specialist and get custom shoes, but you can't go get your teeth (which are bones) cared for...
> 
> ...


Just putting it out there.  Health is the category of which the care is addressed.  It's not actually addressing the status of your.... body?  Therefore it's called Healthcare 

In relation to the overall thread, yeah I have healthcare.  South Korea does have universal healthcare for basic necessities.  Therefore, I have supplemental health care which covers all other possible conditions.


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## KS_Phillip (Jul 16, 2014)

We provide health insurance for our full-time employees in USA, otherwise we all run without (because we live in civilized countries).


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## raindog308 (Jul 16, 2014)

I do, through my employer.  I think I pay $10/week for me + wife + 3 children.  But there are agonizingly complex details, e.g.:
 


some medicines are virtually free, some are $100/3 months
copays at doctors
annual family deductible
in-network vs. out-of-network
the annual ritual of choosing from among the 4 or 5 plans my employer offers and then trying to decide which is optimal.
 
I think the problems with our system are fairly obvious:
 


ridiculous litigation drives up costs and induces defensive medicine (ordering extra tests to defend against malpractice, the cost of lawsuits in new medicines, extra trials and regulation, etc.)
lack of market pressure on health care companies does not lower prices. For example, why is the same medication cheaper in Canada vs. the US.
we do have very fancy treatments now compared to 50 years ago. And of course, everyone wants them. For example, there's a new hepatitis C drug that costs $1000 a day for 90 days. If you have hep C you want it, because it cures 90% of patients, but the cost is astronomical.
people without insurance use the most expensive services (e.g., ER)
we have insane knee-jerk laws like HIPAA, Sarbanes-Oxley, etc. that jack up the costs of everything
and of course, the government puts its regulatory/buffoonish hands in everything
Also, people smoke, eat bad food, drink, etc. but that is true of humans globally. It's expensive to treat heart disease and diabetes - pretty cheap to eat vegetables and quit smoking. Americans actually smoke less than many countries (#51), drink less, and have much lower environmental pollution than many, but we have higher obesity.

I hate the American system because it is strangely tied to employment and it grossly distorts corporate earnings and behaviors. Every exec I know is forced to become a minor expert on health care law. American companies have to manage health care benefits for employees, which takes management time and attention.  It's a relic of a more formal union/employer world of the 1930s.

I work for a big Fortune 500 company that at one time offered comprehensive health care benefits for free. Then copays and monthly fees came and every year, the cost goes up and the benefits grow more expensive. I don't blame my employer - I blame the reality that health care costs grow at double-digit rates every year.

Of course, the problem is that the alternative is giving it to the government to manage, and public sector employees are universally idiots.
 



MannDude said:


> Oh yeah, no healthcare here. Employer doesn't offer it. I can't / don't want to afford it out of pocket and don't want to be forced to have it either. Ideally for me, I should be able to go visit a doctor if needed and pay cash out of pocket without it being insane. If I need emergency treatment to an injury, ideally it wouldn't bankrupt me. But hey, that's not how the world works.


Are you in the US? Honestly, dude, you're an appendectomy away from bankruptcy. That's the sad truth. I would carry something.
 



MartinD said:


> In this day and age it's ridiculous to think that in some countries, if you are seriously ill or injured you have to PAY someone to fix you, make you better, cure your illness, stop you from dying.
> 
> In a world where billions are traded every day for consumables and millions are given to charities there should be no country, anywhere, that requires payment or insurance from patients in order to be treated.


There's no country where healthcare is free. It can't be because it costs money - medicine, people, etc. You pay for it either through taxes or insurance premiums.  Yes, you have to PAY someone to fix you because doctors don't work for free.  The only discussion is who's paying that doctor - either the government takes money from you at gunpoint (aka taxes) or there's an insurance scheme you pay into.

I think there's a misunderstanding that some US citizens don't have health insurance. This is not the case - even prisoners have health care, you can buy it on the market, there are zillions of programs for the poor, old people get Medicare, there's Medicaid, etc. It's just a question of how much it costs and what it covers. People with "good" insurance (which infuriatingly tend to be public sector employees whose insurance is paid for through people's tax dollars) pay less for their care, while people with "bad" insurance pay for more.


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## William (Jul 16, 2014)

It's compulsory here and paid by the employer, so yes.

Coverage is not the best though, meds are cheap and usual doctors/clinics are free but things like dental and therapy are not covered at all.


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## AThomasHowe (Jul 16, 2014)

Government health care. I don't think I'd live in a country without it, it's one of the only places we can actually feel the wealth trickle down here. There is better hospitality or quicker care privately but it's good knowing that I won't have to pay not to die if it's preventable and I think that thinking is enough to rationalise public health care for everyone. The economy is a social construct but mortality isn't.


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## raindog308 (Jul 16, 2014)

The critic in me wonders if socialized medicine works best in countries that have some geographical isolation/border control and do not allow unfettered third world migration.

The usual success stories people point to are the Nordic countries, Britain, Japan, etc.


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## DomainBop (Jul 16, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> I do, through my employer.  I think I pay $10/week for me + wife + 3 children.  But there are agonizingly complex details, e.g.:
> 
> 
> some medicines are virtually free, some are $100/3 months
> ...


You'd be paying significantly more than $10 week if you didn't work for a Fortune 500 company.

The health insurance we offer employees is $491.56 monthly per single employee (single w/child rates are 1.75 x the base ,employee w/spouse is 2x, employee w/family is 2.85x). The company pays 75%, employees pay 25% (so a single employee pays $123 monthly, single w/child $215, married $246, family $350).  

Typical fees, costs_:_

Annual deductible: $0

Maximum annual out of pocket expense (for copays, ambulances, other fees) is $2K for an individual and $4K for a family.

Prescription drugs: generic $10, preferred brand drugs $30, other drugs/specialty drugs $60

Doctors office visit $15 copay /$35 if it's a specialist

Emergency Room Services $100

Inpatient Hospital Services, Maternity Care $500 copay per stay

the full schedule of fees/copays is on pages 99-112 of this pamphlet 

The plan covers:

Outpatient Services


Preventive and Wellness Services and Chronic Disease Management


Emergency Services


Hospitalization


Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services


Prescription Drugs


Rehabilitative and Habilitative Services and Devices


Laboratory Outpatient and Professional Services


Other Services (chemotherapy, family planning for women, transplants, autism treatment, etc)


Pediatric Dental Care


Pediatric Vision



> I think there's a misunderstanding that some US citizens don't have health insurance. This is not the case


Actually it is the case.  You're correct there are zillions of programs for the poor, prisoners, senior citizens, etc but there really isn't any affordable insurance options available for the groups that traditionally make up the uninsured: i.e. "the working poor" whose employers don't offer insurance and can't afford to self-insure but make just enough that they're not eligible for any government help , employees and owners of many small mom and pop businesses who can't afford existing insurance.  Obamacare really does little to nothing to help many  of these uninsured people afford insurance.


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## raindog308 (Jul 16, 2014)

DomainBop said:


> You'd be paying significantly more than $10 week if you didn't work for a Fortune 500 company.


Or less if I was a school teacher or government bureaucrat.

Again, though, this illustrates the silliness of the American system - the F500 company can bargain better and get cheaper rates, but why should where I work determine what I pay for health insurance? I know the history but it's just silly.


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## KS_Phillip (Jul 16, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> The critic in me wonders if socialized medicine works best in countries that have some geographical isolation/border control and do not allow unfettered third world migration.
> 
> The usual success stories people point to are the Nordic countries, Britain, Japan, etc.


Sweden is very accepting of refugees in general.


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## shovenose (Jul 18, 2014)

drmike said:


> Bahaha... Pay towards preventative things - like proper nutrition, exercise, non ingestion of poisions....


Do fast food and Monsters fall into this category?


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## MannDude (Jul 19, 2014)

KS_Phillip said:


> Sweden is very accepting of refugees in general.


Know any hot Swedes who'll do a greencard marriage? Haha. Ah, screw it. Mexico is closer with cheaper medicines and most procedures I can have done in an alley. 



shovenose said:


> Do fast food and Monsters fall into this category?


If you don't make your heart work hard by eating cheeseburgers and increasing your heart rate with energy drinks, it will never get stronger. (kidding)


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## raindog308 (Jul 19, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Know any hot Swedes who'll do a greencard marriage? Haha. Ah, screw it. Mexico is closer with cheaper medicines and most procedures I can have done in an alley.


When that goes wrong, it'll make an excellent premise for the next Marvel superhero movie.


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## Sam (Jul 19, 2014)

No I don't. In New Zealand, GP visits are subsidised and healthcare at the hospital is free. The Government, through Pharmac, funds a wide range of drugs (including cancer drugs) so they are effectively free. It works out great for NZ. I think NZers end up paying around 4 times less than Americans for healthcare services. It's no wonder the drug companies in the US are leaning on the US govt. to basically destroy the Pharmac funding agency in NZ as part of the TPP deal (Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade deal). The only reason that you would use private hospitals in NZ is if the wait list is too long in the public system. One of my close family members did this when they were diagnosed with cancer. They're the same doctors as in the public system...


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## KS_Phillip (Jul 20, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Know any hot Swedes who'll do a greencard marriage? Haha. Ah, screw it. Mexico is closer with cheaper medicines and most procedures I can have done in an alley.
> 
> If you don't make your heart work hard by eating cheeseburgers and increasing your heart rate with energy drinks, it will never get stronger. (kidding)


I'll ask around


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## Shados (Jul 26, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Know any hot Swedes who'll do a greencard marriage? Haha. Ah, screw it. Mexico is closer with cheaper medicines and most procedures I can have done in an alley.
> 
> If you don't make your heart work hard by eating cheeseburgers and increasing your heart rate with energy drinks, it will never get stronger. (kidding)


If it's a greencard marriage, why do they need to be hot?


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## bizzard (Jul 26, 2014)

In India, the middle class is not so inclined to the Medical Insurance kind of setup, but most upper class citizens have it from the private companies. As far as I know, the government is still planning on the medical insurance from their side and it might take decades to be implemented properly.

In my case, I voted "Yes" for the poll. Its not the same kind of setup like in US, but offers cashless treatment of upto 1Lakh INR across a network of hospitals, for emergencies as well as hospital stay for more than 24 hours. I am still doubtful about the benefits, but took it after one of my colleague met with an accident and none of us could support him financially. Just incase if anything bad happens, it could atleast reduce the burden on my parents and the premium per year was modest, around 2K INR. Planned to implement the same within my company, but other colleagues weren't much interested.


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