# Ferguson - No Indictment



## Steven F

Police Scanner

Live Feed (30K viewers at moment, NSFW language)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/ferguson-grand-jury-deliberations/19474907/

So, what's going to happen?


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## MannDude

Hopefully won't get too violent.

I don't think the officer should be indicted for protecting himself. Regardless of skin color, approaching an officer in a violent manner will never end well for you. Though it's important to remember, there is no winner here. It's not like the officer can just go home and watch TV and relax. He's going to have to move, change jobs. He's always going to have a target on his back from those who disagree with the evidence.

Not a good situation at all but I believe the right decision was made.


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## Steven F

MannDude said:


> Hopefully won't get too violent.
> 
> I don't think the officer should be indicted for protecting himself. Regardless of skin color, approaching an officer in a violent manner will never end well for you. Though it's important to remember, there is no winner here. It's not like the officer can just go home and watch TV and relax. He's going to have to move, change jobs. He's always going to have a target on his back from those who disagree with the evidence.
> 
> Not a good situation at all but I believe the right decision was made.


They just started chanting "murderers". People are very, very emotional. This is going to be an ugly night, realistically.

Edit:

I believe the guy with the camera just said this (it may have been someone else): "we've got an agitator over here. I bet the police sent him."


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## MannDude

Yeah, I do fully expect there to be planted agitators in the crowd. The media certainly wants there to be violence. I'm listening to the scanner now and sounds like there have been shots fired already.


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## Steven F

MannDude said:


> Yeah, I do fully expect there to be planted agitators in the crowd. The media certainly wants there to be violence. I'm listening to the scanner now and sounds like there have been shots fired already.


I turned off the scanner. From what I heard, it was by a wooded area, so not necessarily riot related.

Edit:

Live feed above just went out

Edit2:

Feed is back. I checked out the other feeds, though, and this one is really tame in comparison.

"Five shots fired" was just said by the cameraman, though it looks calm.

Edit3:

Just looked back and they're marching. No idea why or to where.


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## Steven F

An officer is taking fire and has requested tactical support.

Edit:

Rocks being thrown at police. Tactical support requested.


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## Steven F

Destroying police car on feed above.


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## MannDude

I think the announcement was released at the time it was because curfew will soon be in effect? As such, they'll be trying to get people to go home.


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## Steven F

*SHOTS FIRED AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.*


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## Steven F

Looting being stopped by citizens.

Edit:

Selectively, that should be said. They're stopping from certain stores, it seems. However, no looting has started (that I can see), they're specifically protecting certain stores and not others.

Edit2:

"This is not looting, it's vandalism" Rock thrown at Quiznos, smashes window.

Edit3:

Looks like police have arrived at scene of vandalism.


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## Steven F

Protestors are not being ordered to disperse.

Edit:

I believe I misunderstood. They're being ordered out of the streets (onto the sidewalks).

Edit2:

Quite a few looting reports on the police feed.


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## MannDude

So, it's been an hour? Lots of reports of shots fired, bricks at cop cars, looting a Dollar Store (Why a Dollar Store?), etc.

Peaceful protesters certainly started off peacefully.


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## Steven F

MannDude said:


> So, it's been an hour? Lots of reports of shots fired, bricks at cop cars, looting a Dollar Store (Why a Dollar Store?), etc.
> 
> Peaceful protesters certainly started off peacefully.


People getting back onto the streets en masse. It was peaceful for like 5 minutes, before they began throwing things at cops.

*Shooting rubber bullets (according to camera man).*


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## Steven F

Tear gas deployed (I got a visual of some gas). They're throwing it back at the police.

http://puu.sh/d4uHz/ebc8ae3d85.png

Edit:

Oh yeah. *A LOT* OF TEAR GAS.


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## k0nsl

...then they blame the "racists" for decrying that they act like mere monkeys


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## Steven F

k0nsl said:


> ...then they blame the "racists" for decrying that they act like mere monkeys


Yeah... nope, that's definitely racist.


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## Steven F

The police are now shooting tear gas off into what is supposedly a residential neighborhood (no reason that I know of, no verification of area).


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## k0nsl

I guess throwing poop is non-racist and cultivated in your view? 



Steven F said:


> Yeah... nope, that's definitely racist.


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## tonyg

k0nsl said:


> ...then they blame the "racists" for decrying that they act like mere monkeys


Alright dude, why the nasty comments?


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## Steven F

k0nsl said:


> I guess throwing poop is non-racist and cultivated in your view?


In what way would throwing poop be racist? Where did I say it was cultivated?

Calling people monkeys, on the other hand, is both racist and uncultured.


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## Steven F

The cameraman just tried to get into some random dude's car and totally got rejected. There is tear gas *everywhere*.


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## k0nsl

No nasty comment. In which way is it nasty? You should probably read my one-liner one more time. I'm not calling anybody a monkey, see?



tonyg said:


> Alright dude, why the nasty comments?


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## Steven F

"Police are not deploying tear gas. They are using #smoke to break up unruly crowds"

- Twitter: St Lois PD

Fire station door was destroyed. Really? The fire department?

edit:

Man just abducted. Reported via police scanner: a man was beaten by four men and then thrown in a van, which drove off.

Edit2:

Police officer missing. Might be nothing.


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## tonyg

I don't have a reading comprehension problem...I know what I read.

You sir, are nothing but a racist.


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## HalfEatenPie

Howdy folks!

Just dropping in to say that we're not gonna tolerate racist comments! Lets keep everything civil and please don't put us in a position where we have actively moderate this conversation!


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## Steven F

Looting reported. Its been going on a while, but I haven't heard a confirmation.

Edit:

Massive line of police in-front of fire department.


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## k0nsl

Okay.

Anyway, that word does not really scare me. It's become a useless buzzword anyway.

I'll simply opt-out from this topic and let it unfold on its own. Happy rioting  opcorn: 



tonyg said:


> I don't have a reading comprehension problem...I know what I read.
> 
> You sir, are nothing but a racist.


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## ChrisM

k0nsl said:


> ...then they blame the "racists" for decrying that they act like mere monkeys


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## Steven F

Fire, most likely from looters/rioters, is raging.* It's a police car!*

http://puu.sh/d4waI/8656c3d85d.png

(Closer picture of car): http://puu.sh/d4wcS/9e14b5d33a.png

The bullets are currently popping in the car.

Awesome picture courtesy of FOX: https://twitter.com/FOX2now/status/537088886150025217/photo/1


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## Steven F

Quite a few reports of gun fire on the scanner.


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## tonyg

Man, your updates incredibile. It's like you are in the center of the action!


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## Steven F

tonyg said:


> Man, your updates incredibile. It's like you are in the center of the action!


Just listening to the two feeds I posted and https://www.reddit.com/live/tdrph3y49ftn/

Edit:

25 - 30 looters in a Walgreens. So, there's some pretty heavy looting going on.


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## Steven F

Someone was shot. No further information at this time.

Edit:

The Walgreens is now on fire from the inside. (UNCONFIRMED)
Reports of smoke.

*CONFIRMED*.

Cool vehicle: http://puu.sh/d4xjv/e1166247cf.png


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## drmike

Bahahah.

Burn motherfuckers.

PD car burning.  Walgreens on fire. McDonalds on fire.


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## drmike

Some TACT vehicle was looted.   They are missing an AR-15 I swear they said.

Cardiac arrest on someone.  Escort needed out of hellzone.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> Some TACT vehicle was looted.   They are missing an AR-15 I swear they said.


I did not hear this, but it doesn't mean it wasn't said.


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## drmike

Police have fallen back multiple times now.   They keep getting bricked.

Just call for more police backups in same area where police multiple time bricked earlier.

There are at least 2 reporters down so far.


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## Steven F

A second police vehicle is on fire.


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## drmike

APB - white male wearing American flag bandana.

That's the dude wanted for torching PD car.


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## Steven F

Oakland is also seeing some small vandalism and large protesting.


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## drmike

Another building on fire.  Masked folks in vehicles now shot.


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## Steven F

NYC protestors splattered NYPD police commissioner with fake blood

Several shootings. A lot is going on now. Nothing too crazy, though.


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## drmike

3 pumper trucks in the warzone now for fires.

Expect firefighters to get stray bullets.

Domino's pizza on fire.  Might just be their shit food though.


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## drmike




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## trewq

I didn't know this was such a big thing until now... I consider myself pretty with current events but this has barely been talked about in Australia. It is now the main article on our Government funded network but the local news still hasn't picked it up...


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## Steven F

Molotov cocktails are being thrown. Where and at what, I do not know.


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## drmike

Storage facility on fire.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> Storage facility on fire.


"RT @kmoxnews: Public Storage across street from QuikTrip that burned during August protests now on fire."

Second time from these damn riots.


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## DomainBop

> Walgreens on fire. McDonalds on fire.





> Domino's pizza on fire.


I have confirmation from multiple sources that these 3 fires are completely unrelated to today's verdict and protests.  The workers at all 3 locations finally had enough of being paid shit wages and decided to fight back. by burning the mothers to the ground.


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## Steven F

DomainBop said:


> I have confirmation from multiple sources that these 3 fires are completely unrelated to today's verdict and protests.  The workers at all 3 locations finally had enough of being paid shit wages and decided to fight back. by burning the mothers to the ground.


For a second, I thought you were serious.

Here is the burned out cop car: http://puu.sh/d4zoc/c414182b8d.png

Second car: http://puu.sh/d4zsj/dcf01ae863.png


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## Steven F

Confirmation: the National Guard is on their way.

Edit:

Heavy gunfire reported on scanner.

Edit2:

Have another pic of the car: http://puu.sh/d4zBI/9b7b04e180.png


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## drmike

Semi auto shooting going on now... Clips emptying.

Building about to collapse.

Firefighters are leaving since being shot at / gun fire in area.  Buildings be left to burn.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> Semi auto shooting going on now... Clips emptying.
> 
> Building about to collapse.


Do you have a feed?


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## drmike

Steven F said:


> Do you have a feed?



mplayer http://relay.broadcastify.com:80/263560708

Armed suspects behind a BBQ joint firing.

Trooper #987 unaccounted for.


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## AndrewM

Live feed @ OP is down, guy started running and feed went dark shortly after.


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## Steven F

AndrewM said:


> Live feed @ OP is down, guy started running and feed went dark shortly after.


Supposedly the camera of the feed I was watching was just stolen.

Edit:

Missing cop mentioned before is still missing, I believe. It may be a different cop, but I'm pretty sure it's not.


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## drmike

FoxNews has special security that is moving into the zone to retrieve their reporters.


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## AndrewM

Steven F said:


> Supposedly the camera of the feed I was watching was just stolen.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Missing cop mentioned before is still missing, I believe. It may be a different cop, but I'm pretty sure it's not.


nevermind. 

Edit: Confirmed at Twitter, his phone was stolen.

My phone got stolen in sorry #Ferguson

I'm safe and ill live tweet now from backup phone #ferguson

https://twitter.com/bassem_masri


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## Steven F

All other live video feeds are pretty garbage. I'm going to keep looking for a new one.


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## drmike

PD + Media only to be zone now.

They are closing through traffic.

Highway Patrol officer #987 still missing.  Last known partner doesn't know where he is.

Another PD alert sensor went off (man down)... Likely false alarm.

Multiple walkie distress tones.  All false.  Been a lot of those tonight.  Cops are stressed.

Looters at Walgreens again.

*** SHAME *** Multiple black owned small businesses long in the community have been broken into, and entirely looted.

All windows  in McDonalds gone, broken.

White Pontiac flying in Zone.  No clue what is going on.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> PD + Media only to be zone now.
> 
> They are closing through traffic.
> 
> Highway Patrol officer #987 still missing.  Last known partner doesn't know where he is.


I-44 EB reported cleared.


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## Steven F

*SNIPPED*

http://www.ustream.tv/Z

^ NEW LIVE STREAM!


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## drmike




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## drmike

200 people looting a Shop and Save.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> 200 people looting a Shop and Save.


50 - 70 people at Red BBQs. They're armed...


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## drmike

Supposedly out in Oakland, California, rioting bad out there.  Anyone seen heard that?

Protestors forced closure of I-580 there earlier.

PD unit 220 retreating. Folks setting fires behind them to isolate them from police presence.


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## Steven F

"@DemondFernandez: We heard gunfire in the distance. Now officers confirm heavy automatic gunfire in the area of Canfield & W. Florissant"

Unknown when the gunfire was.


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## drmike

Toys R Us just was invaded.

100 cars of looters in plaza looking for other targets.


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## Steven F

drmike said:


> Toys R Us just was invaded.


Calling for retreat.


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## Steven F

Officers reporting heavy automatic gunfire in area of W. Florissant and Canfield. ~10 minutes ago.


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## drmike

Protests outside the Whitehouse.


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## Steven F

Trooper 987 located and safe.


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## drmike




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## Steven F

I'm going to bed. Hoping nothing too insane happens and that everyone stays safe.


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## ChrisM

Steven F said:


> I'm going to bed. Hoping nothing too insane happens and that everyone stays safe.


That ship has sailed long ago...


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## drmike

Burglaries and loud music disturbances all over the damn place all of a sudden.


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## TheLinuxBug

All this shows is the overwhelming idiocy of the American people.

Who needs terrorists when your own people will do the job for them.

None of these people even stop to think about the direct impact all that they are doing will have on the economy of this country, let alone their city or state.  None of these people consider the people, property or businesses that they have decided to rob, hurt and burn. This is just more proof they are all sheeple and can be easily manipulated to do things that they know are wrong.  

Two wrongs do not make a right and I can not understand how anyone in this situation thinks this is the right reaction to such an event.

More over, it ridiculous that the news services think its a good idea to continue to report on this and glamorize the event.

You can't fix stupid and this is a great demonstration of that.

Cheers!


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## Steven F

Chris Miller said:


> That ship has sailed long ago...


I meant with people's lives. So far, it doesn't seem like there have been (m)any deaths and very few injuries.


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## drmike

That Toys R Us seems to have claimed a victim.   Medics called for someone mauled in the process of breaking in.

Mobil Gas station on Florrisant, being looted.  Let's hope they don't torch that.


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## drmike

TheLinuxBug said:


> None of these people even stop to think about the direct impact all that they are doing will have on the economy of this country, let alone their city or state.  None of these people consider the people, property or businesses that they have decided to rob and burn. This is just more proof they are all sheeple and can be easily manipulated to do things that they know are wrong.


Integration hasn't worked in the USA and people tend to un-integrate on their own.

Result is community with like folks.

What we are seeing / hearing is about the urban poor plight + color factor in this. High concentration of both.  With such, throughout the USA, you have high criminality, mass horror and gobs of human destruction.  It's very shocking if you haven't been in a find USA big city and seen the real neighborhoods.  They are rough places and if you are different or not just from there, you are bound to get mugged, robbed, punked, victimized in milliseconds.

This has happened before.  The riots in the late 1960's riveted the country and led to a really big abandonment by white folks and others in the working / middle class.  Those riots were nationwide in most major cities.  This Ferguson thing is peanuts so far.

Businesses should be insured.  Some just won't return and you can't blame them.

Shuffling the deck, moving people out, decondensing acute issues, it's sadly best for everyone.

Clearly, people are trying to incite massive mess widely.  Hopefully stuff gets broken, looted, burnt and no innocent people killed or hurt too bad.

Even if we don't like the legal decision in the matter, it is the law and their other remedies.  Like civil suit and federal 1983 Civil Rights Violation suit to name two.   We are a land of laws, be they many, flawed, slow and sometimes wrong.


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## MannDude

drmike said:


>



Stop thinking of it as 'looting' and as 'undocumented shopping'. They're simply liberating these products off of store shelves to mourn the loss of a community member....



TheLinuxBug said:


> All this shows is the overwhelming idiocy of the American people.
> 
> Who needs terrorists when your own people will do the job for them.
> 
> None of these people even stop to think about the direct impact all that they are doing will have on the economy of this country, let alone their city or state.  None of these people consider the people, property or businesses that they have decided to rob, hurt and burn. This is just more proof they are all sheeple and can be easily manipulated to do things that they know are wrong.
> 
> Two wrongs do not make a right and I can not understand how anyone in this situation thinks this is the right reaction to such an event.
> 
> More over, it ridiculous that the news services think its a good idea to continue to report on this and glamorize the event.
> 
> You can't fix stupid and this is a great demonstration of that.
> 
> Cheers!


None of these idiots who are doing this care one bit about Michael Brown and are looting and doing what they're doing just to do it.


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## drmike

Some more shooting victim(s) being fetched out of zone and PD trying to prevent traffic in zone.

Toys R Us still on radio.

and... dispatch radio is filtering out officers mostly.  Only putting dispatcher out on public airwaves.

*bit ago* multiple cars stolen and rammed through buildings to break in.

*another* shopping plaza with slews of cars and looting.


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## TheLinuxBug

@drmike Pretty much all the things in your last reply that you said can be summed up with the, 'You can't fix stupid' comment.  Sadly when you have is large amounts of under-educated people that don't have enough common sense to understand what they are doing is wrong, this is what happens. At the same time, these people are just 'following the crowd' as 'sheeple' do because they are afraid that acting like a sane person and going home to their families will get them picked out of the crowd.  The sad part is that some of these people probably truly believe this is an acceptable reaction to this event.

I'll tell you another thing, if there wasn't some terrorists behind this whole deal to begin with, we have just shown them the easiest way to get the American people to self destruct on them selves.  Who needs to send kids with bombs when you can just pay a 'police officer' to go kill someone of another race (with the assurance that you won't go to jail and that you won't be found guilty) and start crazy riots because the people in the area are not competent enough to realize what is going on to begin with?  If anything, the people played right into their hands and are doing them a service while they all sit back and laugh at the overwhelming idiocy, while counting all the money they saved by not having to send kids with bombs strapped to them to the country.

Overall its just a sad state of events.  We really do need to spend more on truly educating our people.  Maybe then they would know better (probably not).

Cheers!


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## drmike

#ONLYINFERGUSON

Advanced Auto Parts store now on fire.


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## drmike

TheLinuxBug said:


> these people are just 'following the crowd' as sheeple do because they are afraid that acting like a sane person and going home to their families will get them picked out of the crowd.  The sad part is that some of these people probably truly believe this is an acceptable reaction to this event.
> 
> Overall its just a sad state of events.  We really do need to spend more on truly educating our people.  Maybe then they would know better (probably not).


Sadly in these communities, people have ample bad experiences with authorities.  I fully get their displeasure.  Unhappy and want to break shit, go downtown to the Courthouse or something.  Leave the community alone.

Couple that with lack of fathers in mass.  Add the RAP / TRAP culture.  Throw in slavery card.

It's self destruction and it isn't by accident. These folks are a living experiment.

When you raise up in those environments with that plus the rampant murder-death-kill culture, what good do we expect to come from it?  It's real bad.

I've lived in places like Ferguson and been mistreated just because not on the popularity squad in the hood.  That is, I wasn't down with Mr. Brown, wasn't into the looting, the killing, the BS. I won't rat you out, I'll just come blazing straight with a pump shotgun.  I have back down refusal issues.  People learn real quick.

Circa 1960's black communities were booming.  Really were.  At that point, black folks were voting for Republicans still.   They sold out for freebies and hand me outs.  Sold their children to mass genocide of abortion.  Killed their own people and continue to violently all over America daily.

I am waiting for a black leader to emerge and lead the people.  After Martin Luther King, no one has a spine.

PS: education, traditional form, won't work very much in these communities.  There aren't at this point employers that will even hire them, or rather a graphic lack of such.

In all my years in various industries, I haven't seen my folks of African genetics included in professional industries and related circles.   I've long complained about the lack of fairness in hiring.


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## drmike

Police are actually taking gunfire now.

They are being really choice on radio.


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## MannDude

drmike said:


> Police are actually taking gunfire now.
> 
> They are being really choice on radio.


Just heard that on the radio. Group taking gun fire from east and the west.

Officers on scanner withdrawing from area due to lack of assistance.

Taco Bell 'completely engulfed'. (in flames)

Can't wait to see the satellite imagery displaying the before/after of the mayhem.


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> Taco Bell 'completely engulfed'. (in flames)
> 
> Can't wait to see the satellite imagery displaying the before/after of the mayhem.


Police have been retreating all night.  Someone seems to have left gear at home and intentionally letting people do there thang.  State boys no doubt don't want a massive shoot out with deaths - that would cause this all over the country.

With all the looting and burning, they aren't going to have any of their fun foods left.

Then again, I always question why broke ass people have money for that stuff on my tax bill. Why do we let corporate whores siphon my money like that.

Saddest stories so far and untold are a guy who said he put trust in GOD and wasn't boarding up his store.  It was smashed and loot.  Other is a hair place there like 22 years and owned by lady in community.  They smashed it up last riot-go-round.   They did same tonight and may have been set on fire this time.

SWAT to area of Walgreens. Total area shutdown ordered.


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## drmike

... another building on fire - new one --- fully engulfed.  They aren't going to respond and just let it burn.

West Florrisant and Chambers - Laundromat and hair place on fire.

Fools looting the Walgreens again.


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## drmike

One of the arsons:



CNN reporter pelted in the head with rock... sad...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x_BelRBHyE

Service Station next to fire department fully engulfed now in fire.


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## drmike




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## vRozenSch00n

A riot is a riot and it's nasty, especially if you have experienced how horrible and terrifying it is to be caught in a riot and for unknown reason the mass beat you up and burn your property.

Religions, races, ideologies are only bandwagons to cover larger issues or legitimize malicious intention.

IMHO the root of all evil is the unfair distribution of wealth within a nation and even globally. 

Nowadays one of the major problem we all face is urban poverty and immaturity of people in facing the rapidly growing technology, whereas most of the easy marketing target group comes from a less educated group of people within a community. 

Mass medias and social medias also helps boosting the heat for profit or popularity, and they are effective tools to massively influence the less educated grass root.

The problem will arise (and it has already started) when the population of less educated group of people is larger than the well educated group.

TBH, in Asia there are many trained people, university graduates with fancy title and degrees, but are they educated? Not necessarily. 

IMHO education is more about value system. One can learn various disciplines from school but being educated is about how one is raised within the smallest group of community, family.

I hope we can draw back ourselves and contemplate about the purpose of life, raising a family, contribute to community, and build a great nation.


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## MannDude

drmike said:


> Police have been retreating all night.  Someone seems to have left gear at home and intentionally letting people do there thang.  State boys no doubt don't want a massive shoot out with deaths - that would cause this all over the country.


That's just silly. I'm actually conflicted because I'm pretty against and vocal about not wanting militarized police forces because they act like soldiers in simple situations when issuing arrest warrants and SWAT raids... (for example) but when shit like _this_ goes down, they don't _*do*_ anything. They've got MRAPs, they've got full body armor. They have the National Guard. Roll in there and put a stop to it. I dont know why they're putting officer's lives at risk by keeping them overwhelmed.

They need to treat these people who are burning buildings and looting as terrorists. It's not a protest. For most it's just an excuse to go on a crime spree.


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## drmike

More of the destruction:





Walgreens:



O'reily's Body Shop:



Walgreens again...



Storage Facility:


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## drmike

Cop cruiser scorched:


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## drmike

MannDude said:


> That's just silly. I'm actually conflicted because I'm pretty against and vocal about not wanting militarized police forces because they act like soldiers in simple situations when issuing arrest warrants and SWAT raids... (for example) but when shit like _this_ goes down, they don't _*do*_ anything. They've got MRAPs, they've got full body armor. They have the National Guard. Roll in there and put a stop to it. I dont know why they're putting officer's lives at risk by keeping them overwhelmed.
> 
> They need to treat these people who are burning buildings and looting as terrorists. It's not a protest. For most it's just an excuse to go on a crime spree.


Oh I am right there with you.  We are watching theater really.  State / local vs. Feds trying to take over situation.

I expect police protection and order or PD should expect dead perps laying all around my property.

What amazes me is all this destruction and no owner of anything has went to just doing what needs to be done, protecting their property.

--------------

1620 Chambers Road - looting reported just now... SAD.

Back last go round the place was looted.

50k worth of damages last time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhBeDdYz7cA

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/horror-dellwood-market-owners-watched-on-tv-as-looters-shot-through-windows-looted-store-video/

THIS IS THE 3RD TIME THAT THE PLACE HAS BEEN HIT IN THESE RIOTS.

Now there is a group all carrying gas / kerosene headed to same hot zone.


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## MannDude




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## drmike

This is a sample of the damages from back in August.  I never realized it was this bad then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLli_rgUeU


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## drmike

Now they are about to loot Home Depot.  Really.


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## MannDude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOXmCkQTFfc

Only 9 views when I saw this video. Officer shooting someone in Toys R Us parking lot. On the scanner earlier they reported someone with a crow bar. Looks like the officer was trying to arrest him yet the guy ignored orders and moved forward. You hear the crowbar drop when he does.


----------



## drmike

MannDude said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOXmCkQTFfc
> 
> Only 9 views when I saw this video. Officer shooting someone in Toys R Us parking lot. On the scanner earlier they reported someone with a crow bar. Looks like the officer was trying to arrest him yet the guy ignored orders and moved forward. You hear the crowbar drop when he does.


I call fake on that one.

They did cart someone away from there in am ambulance though.


----------



## MannDude

drmike said:


> I call fake on that one.
> 
> They did cart someone away from there in am ambulance though.


Yea? Why is that?


----------



## drmike

TACT shutting all down and flushing looters out now.

These folks out there protesting and looting are going to be mighty tired tomorrow morning at work / school.

Home Depot got a freaking helicopter response.  Big ole river nearby.  They should just get a fire copter and drown people out.


----------



## drmike

MannDude said:


> Yea? Why is that?


Never was clear why.  Dispatch is randomly crappy.

Sounded like / I thought person was injured by breaking in / looting.

Glass is terrible.  Real easy to gear badly wounded.

--------------------

North of the zone shut down there is a car dealership where they setting multiple cars on fire right now.

Looks like the copter has them spotlighted trying to flee in other vehicles.  This might be first death if they go running.

And that copter overhead, it's a sniper unit.


----------



## drmike

Transformer just went boom and power loss in area.  Unsure if in the hotzone or elsewhere.


----------



## XFS_Duke

The people keep shooting... It's only a matter of time before someone gets shot and killed by police because they're acting stupid...


----------



## k0nsl

Kind of like how it all began, then? With the reservation that Michael Brown didn't shoot anybody; all the poor fellow ever did was to simply rob a convenience store and then ending it nicely by bashing in the face of a Policeman. Boom, end of. In my community they would appreciate such a course of action on behalf of the Police, because nobody likes a criminal. Right? If a showdown with gunfire as a means to an end, to put an end to a criminal is what it takes, then so be it!  Oops, sorry to reappear out of the blue  



XFS_Duke said:


> The people keep shooting... It's only a matter of time before someone gets shot and killed by police because they're acting stupid...


----------



## Coastercraze

XFS_Duke said:


> The people keep shooting... It's only a matter of time before someone gets shot and killed by police because they're acting stupid...


Sounds like Kent State all over again..

Watch, we hear the excuse "video games made me do it!"


----------



## drmike

Crazy as it is, they are still at it.

It got pretty quiet for a while then the fires started up for a while again.

PDs have pushed the trouble north out of the zone.  So the idiots have taken to destroying things in that northern area on the same road.  They push more they'll have them at Walmart.

Police have 16 people right now sitting cuffed waiting for transport.   They were hitting up a restaurant that wasn't open.

There was a shooting victim a bit ago.  Unclear how the person was shot.   Didn't sound like PD had anything to do with it.


----------



## drmike

Folks are still randomly shooting.  PD chasing someone doing the shooting.  They have a description.  Dude is in a hoodie, surprised?

Another banged up person requiring ambulance.

Sunlight will kill the riff raff.  Sun can't come up quick enough.


----------



## rds100

I don't understand why the police and other force agencies would allow this to happen? If the police can't handle it, send in a team of navy seals or whatever to deal with these terrorists.


----------



## MannDude

rds100 said:


> I don't understand why the police and other force agencies would allow this to happen? If the police can't handle it, send in a team of navy seals or whatever to deal with these terrorists.


National Guard is already there... they've just not been used yet from what I can tell.


----------



## MannDude

Actually, I think we've been look at this wrong.

They're not destroying their city, they're tired of little employment opportunity and are destroying it with the purpose of being gainfully employed in the future rebuilding it back, better than ever before....


----------



## AndrewM

Any decent streams still on-going for this at the moment?


----------



## MannDude

AndrewM said:


> Any decent streams still on-going for this at the moment?


That one guy had his cell phone stolen while he was live streaming and it was a really popular stream with like 30,000 people watching. Though he claims on Twitter it might have been an undercover police officer?

The streams are sort of annoying to me, just a lot of people talking over each other and shouting. The police scanner feed is what I've been listening to and is a lot more informative and easier to follow.

News crews and helicopters are getting better views and images of the destruction than any of the live streamers with a shaky cell phone image anyhow.


----------



## AndrewM

MannDude said:


> That one guy had his cell phone stolen while he was live streaming and it was a really popular stream with like 30,000 people watching. Though he claims on Twitter it might have been an undercover police officer?
> 
> The streams are sort of annoying to me, just a lot of people talking over each other and shouting. The police scanner feed is what I've been listening to and is a lot more informative and easier to follow.
> 
> News crews and helicopters are getting better views and images of the destruction than any of the live streamers with a shaky cell phone image anyhow.


I usually ignore the conspiracy theories (unless it comes from DrMike BECAUSE HES ALWAYS RIGHT). 

I've been watching the news feeds, but despite the lack of proper camera-crew from the self-made streams, it's much more interesting to see it "first-person".

A majority of these folks are only using this as an opportunity to loot items. I expect eBay/craigslist to receive an influx of electronics sales in the coming days.


----------



## atho

Yes, because the best thing to do when you feel an injustice is to destroy everything that in the city. The stores you shop at, the places your kids go, the places you get your food and entertainment and daily supplies. That will show them. Now once all that is destoryed they will cry for assitance and help stating they had to do that to make a point. And you know what the government will provide assistance to help them "rebuild".

This just shows you can't fix stupid. They should just fence in the entire city and let them destory themselves.


----------



## MannDude

The Koreans kicked ass in LA. They fired upon looters and vandals harming their property and livelihood. Didn't see any of this in Ferguson. Guess those businesses are just banking on profiting off the insurance claims.


----------



## k0nsl

There was [or is] a video of them *« fervently emptying out their Glocks from the rooftops onto the looting Peoplah Colluh... » *but I cannot find it at the moment.



MannDude said:


> The Koreans kicked ass in LA. They fired upon looters and vandals harming their property and livelihood. Didn't see any of this in Ferguson. Guess those businesses are just banking on profiting off the insurance claims.


----------



## Steven F

MannDude said:


> That one guy had his cell phone stolen while he was live streaming and it was a really popular stream with like 30,000 people watching. Though he claims on Twitter it might have been an undercover police officer?
> 
> The streams are sort of annoying to me, just a lot of people talking over each other and shouting. The police scanner feed is what I've been listening to and is a lot more informative and easier to follow.
> 
> News crews and helicopters are getting better views and images of the destruction than any of the live streamers with a shaky cell phone image anyhow.



Guy seemed to be a bit of a loonie, but he had 90K people and was in some of the action (though not much of it).



MannDude said:


> The Koreans kicked ass in LA. They fired upon looters and vandals harming their property and livelihood. Didn't see any of this in Ferguson. Guess those businesses are just banking on profiting off the insurance claims.


That's... That's amazing.


----------



## TurnkeyInternet

I couldn't stand to watch it last night once the fires started, i had to just turn it off and tune it out - i really wonder how much of this was media generated that drummed up the situation, vs the reality of the situation.


----------



## tonyg

I don't get it.

Why make the annoucement at night?

It could not have waited for the next morning?


----------



## drmike

tonyg said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> Why make the annoucement at night?
> 
> It could not have waited for the next morning?


BINGO!

Seriously, no foil hat here, just for real.

The Grand Jury had eons to arrive at result.  The Court controls when the info goes out.  Courts are 9-5 operations for the most part and love to sit parked on things. Flushing the decision out at night, prime crime time, meh. No accident.

Everyone with a brain knows that cover of darkness in such areas among such people leads to massive criminality on display.

We all know that the overnight, up all night crowd, tends not be when a mass of a community good news.  Ask any big city PD about the overnight BS, crime, up to no good.

Couple that together with outsiders who see $$$ and easy taking in the chaos.  The outsiders from whole St Louis metro and beyond had long time to get into town and set up.

I am thinking, this is an OPs program to incite ideally LARGER destruction.  First Ferguson, then perhaps tonight, St Louis?  Oakland? Philly? etc.  That's what some subset of control freaks in offices pulling strings wants.   Same folks that would do way with all the citizen's rights and run tanks over preschoolers.


----------



## drmike

*Some updates on things that happened and weren't mentioned here overnight.*

- Black church set on fire - unclear when.

- Chop Suey restaurant burnt in arson

- St. Louis airspace was closed to flights for a while last night due to all the airborne shooting.  Over 1000 rounds fired by some estimates.

- One man was found dead outside of a church in the area.  Shot to death in his car.

- There was a white male 25 carted away due to nasty head laceration in area near where car dealership was mass torched.  At same time there was quite a bit of gun fire.

- Two officers were shot in metro last night.  One unclear if any relationship to Ferguson.  Both are non life threatening.


----------



## drmike

*Today ongoing:*

9901 West Florrisant - Redz Barbeque on fire again - this place has been hit multiple times.

9xxxx " - another fire

National Guard appears to have been told to stand down and not get involved.  Unclear who did this.  Local mayor is pissed and governor is too.

Lt. Governor refusing to say who is in charge of the situation from the police side in Ferguson.

Didn't I say yesterday this a fight between the State/local vs. Feds?


----------



## drmike

and mind you... in similar situations with public rioting, the second night tends to be the insanity / major disaster time.

If the National Guard doesn't come out and if the police continue to stand down like they are, the place is going to burn worse.

If they hit thugs heavy and someone dies it's going to be hell.

I am hoping the community, their leaders and prominent folks come out and tell the thugs to get out.

Like those shop owners looted, it is time for the good people of Ferguson to make their own stand and defend their community.

PS: I am placing my dinner order and stocking up on beverages.  Going to be an interesting and busy night.


----------



## drmike

These are the Grand Jury docs released under State of Missouri public records compliance:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson-project/evidence.html

For those wanting to listen in, this is a good collection of the regional police scanners in the St. Louis metro area, identify activity by listener counts:

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/mid/31


----------



## rds100

I remember there were some riots and looting in UK some years ago. I wasn't there obviously, but from what i heard the police did nothing to interfere. They just sit and watched and waited for everything to calm down. Then weeks and months later they identified the persons who participated in the looting by records from surveilance cameras and then brought those persons to justice.


----------



## drmike

Mo' fotoz fa ya'all:



That car dealership overnight with 10 cars engulfed:



Chop Suey + Laundramat + ???


----------



## drmike

This is a video of the deceased fellow's mother and step father.

It starts profane and sad.

1:40 in, the step father and others start carrying on about burning stuff down over and over.

Someone needs to get out with human services to tend to this family.   Definitely distorted and going off.  Can't blame them, but inciting violence, burning, etc. nah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY8eUsAoKIA


----------



## vRozenSch00n

MannDude said:


> Actually, I think we've been look at this wrong.
> 
> They're not destroying their city, they're tired of little employment opportunity and are destroying it with the purpose of being gainfully employed in the future rebuilding it back, better than ever before....


In reality, many business and employers who were traumatized by the looting and rioting are reluctant to rebuild the business unless they don't have any life casualty in their family and they are well covered by the insurance (many insurance companies will considered this incident as a force majeur). 

For the next 6 months at least, employment opportunity will be more and more scarce especially for the group member who are involved in the riot, and rebuilding destroyed infrastructure might take at least a year depends on how local politics work. 

Based on what is happening now and possibility of spreading riots to other cities, it is not easy to regain trust from business communities to rebuild the city.


----------



## TekStorm - Walter

True we need police but some of them think they are above the law like kings of old. I was given a ticket and even thou i was in the rules of the law i still had to pay or lost more money to fight it.


----------



## trewq

TekStorm - Walter said:


> True we need police but some of them think they are above the law like kings of old. I was given a ticket and even thou i was in the rules of the law i still had to pay or lost more money to fight it.


I don't think this thread is really the place for this discussion. It will just loop around in circles and it will get no where.


----------



## tonyg

trewq said:


> I don't think this thread is really the place for this discussion


The whole point of Ferguson is police abuse.


----------



## drmike

All discussions are good.

No doubt rampant police abuse in the US.  Coppers in Ferguson prior riot events were crazy aholes.  

When cops threatening to shoot journalists, yeah, that PD has problems.

We have 2 hours tops now before nightfall there.  

It is real quiet on radios.  Leads me to believe State Police aren't the OPs center / running the show tonight.


----------



## drmike

Sad, but kind of funny in distorted way.

 #nojusticenoweaves


----------



## drmike

Get ready, tonight is going to be radically different:

"Lives and property must be protected. This community deserves to have peace," Nixon told a news conference, saying about 700 guard troops were deployed on Monday and hundreds more will be out on Tuesday night to protect homes and businesses. He said there are more than 2,200 guardsmen now in the region.

^--- that is the governor of Missouri saying they are bringing in more Guards members.

2200 of them is quiet a few.  Even if running three shifts will have 700+ in the larger metro deployed.

They had copter with sniper last night.   Tonight the baddies setting stuff ablaze are likely going to get flushed out by overhead copters and made to lay there until ground units arrive.  Move and a big rifle round is the game.


----------



## drmike

All this cause that little Mike Brown was being all nice and stuff to a store owner...



Cause, that's always how I treat businesses in the community.


----------



## GaleDribble

Where is the local militia at to protect their city from these thugs?


----------



## drmike

This shit has me mad after seeing the above. Store worker/owner handling.   Media played like Brown and continues to was some punk ass tiny 12 year old.  They also waffle about what he was doing prior to police confrontation.

Here is the store video of him and his hoodrat friends stealing from the store then intimidating the clerk / owner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2z5-H8NSGA


----------



## AuroraZero

TheLinuxBug said:


> All this shows is the overwhelming idiocy of the American people.
> 
> Who needs terrorists when your own people will do the job for them.
> 
> None of these people even stop to think about the direct impact all that they are doing will have on the economy of this country, let alone their city or state.  None of these people consider the people, property or businesses that they have decided to rob, hurt and burn. This is just more proof they are all sheeple and can be easily manipulated to do things that they know are wrong.
> 
> Two wrongs do not make a right and I can not understand how anyone in this situation thinks this is the right reaction to such an event.
> 
> More over, it ridiculous that the news services think its a good idea to continue to report on this and glamorize the event.
> 
> You can't fix stupid and this is a great demonstration of that.
> 
> Cheers!


There is one sure fire way to fix stupid. Works every time and would stop a lot of shit right off the bat. A bullet to the head works like a charm cures a lot of people's problems and then there might not be so damned many arguments and shit.


----------



## vRozenSch00n

A little rant :

I ain't mean to burn nobody. Yow attitude and cryin' to burn down thing and lootin' ain't gonna help and ain't gonna get you nowhere.

Ain't y'all motha fucka see the big pitchur here? After a long and painful fitty years now we have a brother as president, and now this?

There ain't gonna be no Afro-American president in da fuchur no more, know what I'm sayin' you motha fucka?


----------



## drmike

Tonight has been entirely different.

PD came out with just a ton of Guardsmen.  They all came out in riot gear nearly.

There has been very little anything.

People broke up random stuff, torched a police car, over threw planters, nothing much.

They have the police station barricaded and cement barriers around it.

Police aren't playing, but they aren't letting people run wild like last night.  So far, folks running this are doing a great job.  Time shall tell if their strategy will work.


----------



## drmike

PD just pulled over a vehicle wanted from last night for shooting lots of rounds from moving vehicle.

Like 70-100 PD cars, humvees, etc. surrounded a Walgreens.  They cleared the site, but are still doing something there.


----------



## ChrisM




----------



## drmike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgiOWAq4Ob8


----------



## texteditor

jesus christ you all are terrible


----------



## drmike

texteditor said:


> jesus christ you all are terrible


170 US cities have protests and various states of bad behavior tonight.

Police at station about to snag 2 perps who keep throwing bricks at the police front line.

How dumb can some folks be?

We really need Jerry Springer to show up and referee.


----------



## texteditor

Oh well here's the best/worst thing from the protests (aside from goddamn Macklemore, of course)

https://twitter.com/Doc_705/status/537118405405319170

NWS as fuck


----------



## drmike

texteditor said:


> Oh well here's the best/worst thing from the protests (aside from goddamn Macklemore, of course)
> 
> https://twitter.com/Doc_705/status/537118405405319170
> 
> NWS as fuck


Iz wunderin wert da hell that schnizzle iz bout.

Some reason I just got a hankering for some mouth wash and a case of mints.


----------



## XFS_Duke

Chris Miller said:


>


Yes, thanks!


----------



## wlanboy

The testimony the grand jury heard in the Michael Brown case

Transcripts of police and FBI interviews
Reports and evidence considered by the grand jury


----------



## texteditor

drmike said:


> Iz wunderin wert da hell that schnizzle iz bout.
> 
> Some reason I just got a hankering for some mouth wash and a case of mints.


Sometimes you just gotta get your salad tossed, and you gotta have it right now

We should all be so lucky to have a helpful bro in that situation


----------



## ChrisM




----------



## ChrisM




----------



## MannDude

Last night seemed relatively tame compared to Monday night.

I'm thinking they purposely let them run wild on Monday night knowing their is a ton of video and photographic evidence considering it appears a good chunk of the crowd were journalists, whether paid or amateur. Now they can go through all the footage and photos and start arresting those who were looting and vandalizing and hopefully restoring order to Ferguson.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

MannDude said:


> Last night seemed relatively tame compared to Monday night.
> 
> I'm thinking they purposely let them run wild on Monday night knowing their is a ton of video and photographic evidence considering it appears a good chunk of the crowd were journalists, whether paid or amateur. Now they can go through all the footage and photos and start arresting those who were looting and vandalizing and hopefully restoring order to Ferguson.


I remember at our university during riots most police forces were focused on containing it (making sure it didn't turn violent).  Once it did turn semi-violent, and with everyone having cellphones you can definitely say there were tons of videos and pictures of people destroying property (a news van was flipped, a few lamp posts were taken down and destroyed).  The local police collected all these evidences and offered like 100 dollars per person who could identify or clue to the individual in each photo segment.  Safe to say, it was taken care of pretty quickly.


----------



## DomainBop

> it appears a good chunk of the crowd were journalists, whether paid or amateur. Now they can go through all the footage and photos and start arresting...


...arresting journalists.  Just like in August.  ...and just like many other times in the past few years when journalists in the US have been arrested or roughed up for just doing their job.

Yeah, there is a definite reason why the US fell to 46th on this year's Reporters without Borders press freedom index (which is below so-called "third world" countries like 38. El Salvador, 41. Botswana, 42. South Africa, 27. Ghana, 26. Uruguay, 17. Jamaica and many others).

_disclaimer: I'm biased towards journalists and biased against anyone who screws with them (probably because somewhere on my LinkedIn profile there is a degree in journalism listed.)_ and I tend to get annoyed when the halfwit semi-literate sheeple thugs that populate many police forces screw with journalists.


----------



## drmike

DomainBop said:


> ...arresting journalists.  Just like in August.  ...and just like many other times in the past few years when journalists in the US have been arrested or roughed up for just doing their job.


Ferguson has been a VERY bad place for journalists.

Just from my catches, I've seen THREE reporters there this week while on camera pelted with rocks.  Torpedoing someone in the head with a rock is no joke.  Really capable of severely injuring someone.

Last night a well known alternative media outlet was confronted by a ski mask wearing fellow who called them sellouts and all sorts of heated BS.  Amazingly that didn't jump off into something, but very well is indication of alt media losing favor now too.

There are multiple accounts of other reporters being robbed, threatened, etc.

In many ways, journalists in Ferguson are in more clear and present danger than when covering abroad in active war zones.

I'll note that journalists, especially alternative folks seem to have really curtailed their roaming and are more and more sticking to the main drag in the police protected zone.  Meaning the breaking news, and actual action, they aren't seeing or proactively reporting on.

Sad situation all around for reporting, news, integrity of matters.  Still plenty going on in Ferguson but stuff is NOT BEING REPORTED.

Similarly, the police scanners has reduced activity.   They are continuing to run half duplex-like conversations and certainly are offlining communications on crypto'd frequencies as well as on other mediums (cell phones and high powered walkies).

Ferguson statistically, on paper, public census and other data isn't a bad looking place.  It's not Beverly Hills but it's very "normal" in most ways.

What is striking to me and remains unmentioned as such is not "politically correct" is the seemingly massive amount of folks that appear to live in public housing / projects.   Where most of the activity is in these riots and where the shooting of Mike Brown happened really appears to me to be a housing project in the freebie nature.    It's just off Florissant to the east in a sprawling road named Canfield.

It would be simple enough to close the two or so side feeder roads to that and an adjacent plan to the north.  That would slash the insurrection and looting masses to barely a trickle (i.e. would leave outside invaders).

Last night in that Canfield Apartments area there were a number of reports on radios.   Stuff set ablaze, volleys of gunfire, etc.

I'd wager to say half of what walked out of stores on Florissant can be found back in that housing plan.

Won't take long for ill gotten goodies to be consumed/sold/traded.  If this rioting continues, this weekend there is going to be very challenging.

Other cities last night have varied degrees of stupid that happened.  Media elsewhere has been ignoring most of the activity unless they have to cover it (i.e. big destruction, massive highway closures, etc.).


----------



## texteditor

Chris Miller said:


>


Someone write me a greasemonkey script to replace every image ChrisMiller posts with the word "Nigger", saves screen space and he's really dancing around it anyways


----------



## ChrisM

texteditor said:


> Someone write me a greasemonkey script to replace every image ChrisMiller posts with the word "Nigger", saves screen space and he's really dancing around it anyways



Thanks for proving the point in my image! Are you proud you are part of the problem?


----------



## texteditor

Coastercraze said:


> Sounds like Kent State all over again..
> 
> Watch, we hear the excuse "video games made me do it!"



Whooaah, how'd I miss this one? definitely worst post lol

It's really hard/rare to find pro-National Guard at Kent State people


----------



## tonyg

@texteditor People like this Chris dude just think that by posting such stuff it makes them "one of the guys".

Like the old saying goes...don't feed the trolls.

Again, the whole point of Ferguson is police abuse. In this case, the killing of an unarmed person.

It could happen to anyone.


----------



## ChrisM

tonyg said:


> @texteditor People like this Chris dude just think that by posting such stuff it makes them "one of the guys".
> 
> Like the old saying goes...don't feed the trolls.
> 
> Again, the whole point of Ferguson is police abuse. In this case, the killing of an unarmed person.
> 
> It could happen to anyone.



So posting factual information is trolling? Lol... 

The only evidence of police abuse there is in Ferguson is not putting all options on the table to put a stop to these animals rioting and destroying the place over an earned death of a thieving ghetto rat.


----------



## tonyg

Chris Miller said:


> The only evidence of police abuse there is in Ferguson is not putting all options on the table to put a stop to these animals rioting and destroying the place over an earned death of a thieving ghetto rat.



So the dude deserved to die because he was stealing?

By the way, I fully understand that life is much simpler when everything is black/white, good/bad etc.


----------



## ChrisM

tonyg said:


> So the dude deserved to die because he was stealing?
> 
> By the way, I fully understand that life is much simpler when everything is black/white, good/bad etc.



He viciously attacked an officer of the law and went for the officers gun putting the publics life in danger and yes with no doubt he got what he deserved. That doesn't leave the fact that there is no "cure" for what he did in that store to that clerk. No prison sentence is long enough to prevent that disease (Robbery) from spreading.


----------



## AndrewM

tonyg said:


> So the dude deserved to die because he was stealing?
> 
> By the way, I fully understand that life is much simpler when everything is black/white, good/bad etc.


He didn't die because he was thief, he assaulted the officer. I disagree with the logic you used in this post, there is evidence and court documents in this thread and I urge you to track back and read them. 

I've followed this since the first day, it's a tragedy on both sides. Michael Brown didn't deserve the die, no one deserves to have their life essentially "taken" from them, but he made a choice and it so happened to be the wrong one, nothing you can do about it now. The officer's life will never be the same either, he will constantly be in fear of retaliation now.

Regardless of if you think the officer was in the wrong, the grand jury disagrees with you. This is our justice system at work, a jury of his peers voted no true bill (the same kind of people you talk/walk/eat with every day, they aren't special people), it wasn't a setup.

Now I see why @Francisco is proud to be Canadian. #pony

Disagree with me if you will, I encourage healthy discussion. But the racism in this thread is blatant and needless, people of all colors have done the same thing Michael Brown did, he didn't make the decision he made because of his skin color. There's no need to bring race into it (although the main stream media did a fine job at doing it.)


----------



## MannDude

AndrewM said:


> He didn't die because he was thief, he assaulted the officer. I disagree with the logic you used in this post, there is evidence and court documents in this thread and I urge you to track back and read them.
> 
> I've followed this since the first day, it's a tragedy on both sides. Michael Brown didn't deserve the die, no one deserves to have their life essentially "taken" from them, but he made a choice and it so happened to be the wrong one, nothing you can do about it now. The officer's life will never be the same either, he will constantly be in fear of retaliation now.
> 
> Regardless of if you think the officer was in the wrong, the grand jury disagrees with you. This is our justice system at work, a jury of his peers voted no true bill (the same kind of people you talk/walk/eat with every day, they aren't special people), it wasn't a setup.
> 
> Now I see why @Francisco is proud to be Canadian. #pony
> 
> Disagree with me if you will, I encourage healthy discussion. But the racism in this thread is blatant and needless, people of all colors have done the same thing Michael Brown did, he didn't make the decision he made because of his skin color. There's no need to bring race into it (although the main stream media did a fine job at doing it.)


Good post.

It should also be noted that the Jury was selected in _May_ well before this event even took place. I've seen it repeated over and over how the jury may have been biased due to their ethnic make up. While I suppose that may be _possible_, it's important to understand that they weren't chosen after the shooting.

The eye witness reports were very poor, and later many were debunked as false or those who intitially said they saw it admitted that they didn't actually _see_ it, but _heard_ that it happened in the manner they described it to police initially based on what someone else said.

After seeing the CCTV footage of Brown robbing the store minutes before his death and how he reacted to authority there and had no respect or concern of the employee who attempted to stop him, I have to say that the officers account sounds more believable than the others. You don't become violent with an officer. And believe me, my feelings towards police in the USA is hit or miss. Lot of cops out there don't deserve the badge they stand behind, but I really don't think Wilson did anything _wrong_. Grabbing an officers gun and assaulting him is a clear escalation of force that warrants the use of a lethal weapon. At the time the officer had no way to know if the _man_ who was attacking him was unarmed or not, had no way of knowing where this would go.

It should be noted that Wilson didn't have a tazer, though the escalation of force of attempting to take a gun away and assault an officer would warrant the use of his pistol anyway. And to those who wonder, "Why didn't he shoot him in the leg or the shoulder or something..." that's not how officers or people who take defensive hand gun training are trained. In a situation like that you're not staring down the sights and taking calculated, smooth and direct shots. Your heart is pumping, you're panicking as your life is in danger and you aim for center mass. Also, from a legal stand point, shooting to wound is a horrible idea especially if you admit that was your intention in court.

Besides, it's not like the officer can have a normal life now. Not like he can just go home and order a pizza and watch TV and relax after work. He's got to move. He's got a target on his back from those who don't wish to believe, read, or interpret the evidence. He's got a community of people who want him dead simply because he did his job properly.

In reality, this should have never been a national news story and should have been isolated to the community it impacted. More important stuff is happening all over the country and the world but the media was fixated on trying to create more racial tension and banking on you getting upset and emotional and mad and sad.


----------



## TheLinuxBug

> @MannDude said:
> 
> 
> In reality, this should have never been a national news story and should have been isolated to the community it impacted. More important stuff is happening all over the country and the world but the media was fixated on trying to create more racial tension and banking on you getting upset and emotional and mad and sad.


 

This.

 

As I said above:



> More over, it ridiculous that the news services think its a good idea to continue to report on this and glamorize the event.


You can't fix stupid and sadly that's becoming a large part of the common watcher base for these news networks which like to glamorize and over report events that don't deserved to be saddled up like a horse and ridden into the ground, like has more recently become popular on most news sources.  People watch this stuff, get overly emotionally invested in it and think they need to do something about it.  Now, you have a bunch of people protesting all over the place and creating un-needed fear for everyone.

I am by no means saying this issue should be buried or that the people involved didn't have a right to feel as they did, but there is no need for stuff to be taken so overboard in the manors we saw over the past several days and in the recent past on the American news networks.  It is just too much. 

Cheers!


----------



## vRozenSch00n

MannDude said:


> In reality, this should have never been a national news story and should have been isolated to the community it impacted. More important stuff is happening all over the country and the world but the media was fixated on trying to create more racial tension and banking on you getting upset and emotional and mad and sad.


This is the side effect of misused technology. Aside from mainstream medias, social medias involved many people from various backgrounds, level of education and value system. This social system spread words more rapidly than a burning bush. Sadly not everybody has the same level of maturity, and the words spread might gone out of proportion.

Some people have no shame to bare false witness just to show on TV. Some others edit video footage for fun without thinking emotional effect that they cause.  

Such irresponsible act might bring about devastating impact when it touches sensitive issue such as racism.


----------



## ihatetonyy




----------



## rds100

"Was MB running away from DW when fired upon"? What is the purpose of this question in the first place? If the bullet holes were in his back he was running away. If the bullet holes were on his front he was not running away. There is no need to ask witnesses about this, when this can be proven with hard evidence. Unless of course you ask this just to test if the witness is telling the truth.


----------



## ihatetonyy

rds100 said:


> "Was MB running away from DW when fired upon"? What is the purpose of this question in the first place? If the bullet holes were in his back he was running away. If the bullet holes were on his front he was not running away. There is no need to ask witnesses about this, when this can be proven with hard evidence. Unless of course you ask this just to test if the witness is telling the truth.


To shoot at someone and to actually hit someone are different things.


----------



## rds100

I guess they can always count and compare the number of shells found with the number of bullets found in the body.


----------



## ihatetonyy

rds100 said:


> I guess they can always count and compare the number of shells found with the number of bullets found in the body.


I feel incredibly dirty linking to RT but:


At least 10 gunshots total can be heard during the recording, which Glide certified as being captured at 12:02 pm on Saturday, August 9th. This is the same time that 18-year-old Brown, an unarmed black teenager, was shot and killed by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

http://rt.com/usa/183540-ferguson-shooting-audio-recording/


----------



## rds100

So how many bullets did they find in this guy? Did the bullets enter from the front of from the back?


----------



## ihatetonyy

rds100 said:


> So how many bullets did they find in this guy? Did the bullets enter from the front of from the back?


 Six shots:



PBS NewsHour said:


> The St. Louis County medical examiner’s autopsy report indicated that 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot in the hand at close range during an altercation with Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson. To support that finding, the autopsy said a microscopic exam found foreign matter “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” on the tissue of Brown’s thumb wound.
> 
> The county’s report also showed that Brown was shot six times, with gunshot wounds to the head and chest as the cause of death. An additional toxicology report detected marijuana in Brown’s blood.
> 
> According to the Associated Press, the report, however, did not explain why Wilson shot Brown after a struggle in the police officer’s SUV nor clarified whether Brown was surrendering or reaching for the officer’s weapon.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/michael-browns-official-autopsy-report-actually-reveal/


----------



## rds100

Well, if i were in the cop's shoes and some angry gangster was coming my way i would certainly shoot him too. As many times as i can, until he drops down.


----------



## ihatetonyy

rds100 said:


> Well, if i were in the cop's shoes and some angry gangster was coming my way i would certainly shoot him too. As many times as i can, until he drops down.


See "running when fired upon" and "charge the officer" columns.

At the risk of playing devil -- er, dead man's -- advocate, I am also intrigued at how a robbery of cigarillos has turned someone with no prior record into a gangster. But I don't want to break up such a grand circlejerk, either.


----------



## k0nsl

You sound like you are trying to describe an angel. Well, this “angel” of yours harassed a clerk, robbed the store and beat up a policeman, and he was such an “angel” that a policeman felt it necessary to draw his gun to put an end this “angel’s” life  What an “angel’! —  a burglar, wife beater and petty thief  

I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.



ihatetonyy said:


> I feel incredibly dirty linking to RT but:
> 
> At least 10 gunshots total can be heard during the recording, which Glide certified as being captured at 12:02 pm on Saturday, August 9th. This is the same time that 18-year-old Brown, an unarmed black teenager, was shot and killed by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.
> 
> http://rt.com/usa/183540-ferguson-shooting-audio-recording/


----------



## ihatetonyy

k0nsl said:


> You sound like you are trying to describe an angel. Well, this “angel” of yours harassed a clerk, robbed the store and beat up a policeman, and he was such an “angel” that a policeman felt it necessary to draw his gun to put an end this “angel’s” life What an “angel’! — a burglar, wife beater and petty thief
> 
> I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.


You quote the word angel as though I'd said that? I don't see where I did.

Harassed a clerk and robbed a store - I said that. Didn't try to get around it. One crime does not a gangster make. No criminal record in sight.


Don't know where he beat his wife, a link would be nice.


And here's the result of his vicious attack on a police officer:






I really hate razorburn, too. Side-note: anyone remember the orbital blowout fracture hoax?


----------



## k0nsl

ihatetonyy,

You clearly have  basic English and I don't feel like wasting more of my time with you because it will lead to nowhere. Been there, done that 

Plus, I always seem to come off as if I'm “super angry”, when I'm not. I just say what I think without sugar-coating any of it.

Feel free to paint him in a more positive light if you want to, but it won't change a thing. I actually feel a little bad for Mr. Brown being (ab)used in this manner, and I'm sure if he was still around he'd pistol-whip both you and me!  :lol:

Have a great day.

[edit]

His tweets are very revealing, by the way. « Tall nigga short temper »...touché!


----------



## tonyg

k0nsl said:


> I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.


Dude, you don't get it.

Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown.

What people are having a hard time was the officer's use of deadly force on an unarmed person.


----------



## k0nsl

I know that, @tonyg. I see a small number of people trying to minimise the whole thing, others are trying to use it as a platform to push for their own agenda(s): thus (ab)using the death of Mr. Brown, and others are trying to make it seem like all of this was some kind of evil ‘racist’ policeman killing this poor, poor downtrodden Mr. Brown out of pure joy, perhaps even out of spite...or something along those lines.

I'm out for now. Have a nice day.



tonyg said:


> Dude, you don't get it.
> 
> Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown


----------



## ihatetonyy

k0nsl said:


> ihatetonyy,
> 
> 
> You clearly have problems understanding [or comprehending] basic English and I don't feel like wasting more of my time with you because it will lead to nowhere. Been there, done that
> 
> 
> Plus, I always seem to come off as if I'm “super angry”, when I'm not. I just say what I think without sugar-coating any of it.
> 
> 
> Feel free to paint him in a more positive light if you want to, but it won't change a thing. I actually feel a little bad for Mr. Brown being (ab)used in this manner, and I'm sure if he was still around he'd pistol-whip both you and me!  :lol:
> 
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> 
> [edit]
> 
> 
> His tweets are very revealing, by the way. « Tall nigga short temper »...touché!


Frankly I'm sad it took two posts to shake someone from replying. Please leave feedback so I know how to string these replies out just a few posts longer before I get someone exasperated at continuing a conversation.


Also your link doesn't work, and if noting the lack of a criminal record and Darren Wilson's razor burn paints him in a positive light, so be it. Sorry to come in and ruin the thread with what came out of the GJ process.


----------



## k0nsl

Not sure if this is true about our angel, but here it goes:



> *Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…*
> 
> Charles Johnson, Editor-in-chief of GotNews, filed a lawsuit in St. Louis seeking the release of Michael Brown’s juvenile criminal record, claiming they no longer need to be kept private. _*Johnson says law enforcement told him that Brown’s juvenile arrest record contains a second-degree murder charge and information linking him to the notorious Crips street gang.*_
> 
> From AOL News:
> 
> “To find out if those police officers are correct requires seeing Brown’s juvenile arrest record, which ought to be freely available given that he is dead and therefore has no right to privacy remaining,” insists Johnson.
> 
> “Knowing the truth about Brown’s past will help us gauge the credibility of his parents and family who have called him a ‘gentle giant.'”
> 
> Attorney Johnathon Burns, who is arguing the case, told KMOX that since the teen is deceased, his records are no longer sealed.


*Source(s):*
Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…

Lawsuit seeking release of Michael Brown's juvenile records claims slain teen was a murder suspect


----------



## ihatetonyy

k0nsl said:


> Not sure if this is true about our angel, but here it goes:
> 
> *Source(s):*Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…
> 
> Lawsuit seeking release of Michael Brown's juvenile records claims slain teen was a murder suspect


Old news. Johnson is the same hack that helped spin the false orbital blowout fracture story. His lawsuit flew back in his face:
http://news.yahoo.com/lawsuits-seek-michael-brown-juvenile-records-052626893.html



> The 18-year-old fatally shot by a suburban St. Louis police officer didn't face any juvenile charges at the time of his death and never was convicted of a serious felony such as murder, robbery or burglary, a juvenile court system lawyer said Wednesday.
> 
> 
> Those details emerged at a hearing in which two media organizations sought the release of any possible juvenile records for Michael Brown. An attorney for the Brown family called the effort to get the records "shameful" and motivated by "character assassination."
> 
> 
> Cynthia Harcourt, the St. Louis County juvenile office's attorney, offered the most specific public details on whether Brown faced legal trouble before his 18th birthday — a subject of intense speculation in a case that has garnered global attention. The 45-minute hearing before a St. Louis County family court judge didn't reveal whether Brown had ever been charged with lesser offenses as a juvenile, or charged with a more serious crime that resulted in a finding of delinquency — the juvenile court equivalent of a conviction.


Surprised to see they didn't retract or update at YoungCons after the suit came back considering that kind of a misleading headline would be considered libelous if he weren't dead.


----------



## drmike

Hey, we weren't all at Mike Brown's unfortunate murder scene.  We are all armchairing it.

Mike Brown on store video was mega bad.  Looked some some thefting going on there.  Definitely put some hands on and intimidated store clerk.  Not a good way to generally interact with other humans.

Store workers need better understanding at law.  If someone steals, robs, intimidates to said degree, I find no problem in them protecting theirs and shooting whoever is the threat, regardless of color, gender, beliefs, etc.  VERY dangerous work environments in urban environments.  Death by clerk might have been less bullshit, rioting, bad behavior, police on hot seat.

Darren Wilson's injuries, they don't look bad.  IS there a medical report somewhere in there?  Could be that the fellow isn't a sweller.  Then again Wilson isn't a small boy either.  He's 6ft 3+ and well over 220 pounds.  If he was getting bare handed punched in the face by a 300 pound 18 year old he should have have way more damage than photos show.

But a cop need not take an ass kicking first before using force.

The police department however, they need multiple legal ass kickings.  Should start with forced hiring policies so the police department resembles the community it serves.   Woman, people of other skin tones, etc.

I found the number of shots fired excessive.  I also found Wilson's ABC News interview disturbing.  Namely the part where he describes blindly shooting while in his car, while supposedly being swung at by Brown.  Shells had to be flying all over the place, in the neighborhood, etc.  That's very very bad.

Many PDs pack hollow points for maximum effect and less damage when straying.  Wondering what ammo he was firing.

Hollow point shots to a human don't take many hits to get the point across.  They blow big ugly bloody holes in folks.  1-2 tops is all you need, if the person is even then alive - they are brutal shots, outlawed by international treaties for war supposedly and formerly labeled cop killers as criminals packed them back in the 1990's in a big way.  Was Wilson not firing hollow points? 

---------------------------------------------------------------

There are multiple fundraisers for the small businesses in Ferguson over here:

http://www.gofundme.com/

If you are in the giving mood, tis the season...

http://www.gofundme.com/huiz2o

http://www.gofundme.com/hunocc

^--- store where it all started

http://www.gofundme.com/nataliescakesnmore

http://www.gofundme.com/htk4zo

http://www.gofundme.com/htnohk

http://www.gofundme.com/htw6ls

http://www.gofundme.com/beautyworld

^--- Beauty World which was hit multiple times.

http://www.gofundme.com/hu8z10

^--- real sad one

http://www.gofundme.com/hw0di4

^--- Deandre Joshua - 20 year old killed during the rioting in Ferguson - shot dead in his car.


----------



## drmike

drmike said:


> *Some updates on things that happened and weren't mentioned here overnight.*
> 
> - Black church set on fire - unclear when.


The black church set on fire supposedly was the church Mike Brown attended.

The leader of the church had received something like 70+ death threats and the FBI was supposedly investigating. So much for the FBI protecting anything...  The leader there was asking the community to exercise restraint and be peaceful.

Peace and restraint are justification to commit felonies in the hood - arson.


----------



## drmike

Sad, but this is the deceased.  We can chalk it up as youthfulness, trap culture, etc.  But I know better,  I've known a thousand like-Mikes in my years.  He's speaking of the streets, his street, of the neighborhood, his 'hood.  He's talking about what his eyes have seen and what his heart desires, about his mama and about life where he lives.  It isn't fiction, it's hell.

It is the same rampant violence, intimidation, drugs, treating women like dogs, punking everyone that isn't your direct people. 

He wasn't rapping about becoming a big boy and working.  He was talking about violence and victimizing folks.  He wasn't talking about love and caring, the polar opposite.

There is a saying 

Live by the sword, die by the sword

Body Baq Big'Mike 

https://soundcloud.com/bigmike-jr-brown/body-baq-bigmike-ft-two-cupz

Someone needs to look at Ferguson and all the free cash money they collect for housing Section 8, HUD and other freebies, especially in high density apartments and high crime areas.   Like many places I am sure Ferguson is getting paid big time and has high priority on these dense areas and continues to allow said areas to be rough, tumble and broken.  Localities love the broken doleouts of big money.  IN many ways leadership of these towns enable and foster the criminality.

Glad I don't own a business in Ferguson or I'd have five different universities crunching data and making the links - pre-suit.


----------



## MannDude

tonyg said:


> Dude, you don't get it.
> 
> 
> Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown.
> 
> 
> What people are having a hard time was the officer's use of deadly force on an unarmed person.



Unless police forces start hiring psychics, they will never know who is armed and unarmed.


It is reasonable to assume however, that the same quality of individual who would strike you with his fists during something as routine as saying, "Hey, get out of the middle of the road" is likely the same quality of individual who may... just maybe... be armed.


Fists can be just as deadly as a gun and fists alone can and often does warrant the use of lethal force. Watch these videos below: (Waning, graphic)






How about the 'knockout game', that was seemingly popular for a while within a particular segment of our population. The goal of the game was to knock out a random stranger on the street with one punch. Several people died. The attackers all likely unarmed. In one case in Florida, a man asked another, "Are you carrying a gun?" and when the man said no, the other punched him in the face full force.


So, yes, Michale Brown was 'unarmed'... but unarmed doesn't mean any less of a threat. It's unfortunate that he made the decisions he did that lead to his death.

EDIT: And speaking of fists being deadly, front page of imgur right now: http://imgur.com/gallery/JzNpG Unsure of the source since people on imgur and reddit lie all the time for 'karma' or whatever, b


----------



## ihatetonyy

drmike said:


> Store workers need better understanding at law.  If someone steals, robs, intimidates to said degree, I find no problem in them protecting theirs and shooting whoever is the threat, regardless of color, gender, beliefs, etc.  VERY dangerous work environments in urban environments.  Death by clerk might have been less bullshit, rioting, bad behavior, police on hot seat.


Absolutely agreed. Would have brought the store owner under fire, but nipped the rest of this in the bud.


FWIW, the store owner says he didn't even bother to call the police - a customer did. So either he didn't care enough or was afraid to. That serves as no justification to what Brown did, of course.



drmike said:


> Darren Wilson's injuries, they don't look bad. IS there a medical report somewhere in there? Could be that the fellow isn't a sweller. Then again Wilson isn't a small boy either. He's 6ft 3+ and well over 220 pounds. If he was getting bare handed punched in the face by a 300 pound 18 year old he should have have way more damage than photos show.



In the state's autopsy Brown weighed in at 6'5", 289lbs. Wilson self-identifies as 210 pounds but says it "fluctuates between 205, 212, 213, something like that."


Here's Wilson's medical report. (PDF warning.) He was prescribed Naprosyn (Rx grade Aleve) and diagnosed with a bruise.


Pertinent part:




This has been brought up in some outlets after the jury dump in part to dispel the myths that spread around the wingnuttosphere about orbital blow out fractures, and in part to contrast to Wilson's claim of an attack _at all_ or one that was significant.



drmike said:


> The police department however, they need multiple legal ass kickings. Should start with forced hiring policies so the police department resembles the community it serves. Woman, people of other skin tones, etc.



Unfortunately once you start saying things like this you get screams of 'affirmative action' and that just tears the whole plan to bits. Any federal action to the like would spawn some great blog posts about Obama forcing the issue to be about race, though..


Bonus round:


The _Post_ reporting that Wilson:


Washington Post said:


> ..returned to the police station unescorted, washed blood off his hands and placed his recently fired pistol into an evidence bag himself.
> 
> 
> Those actions, described in grand jury testimony, violated protocols for handling a crime scene and securing evidence, according to experts in policing procedures and Justice Department documents.
> 
> 
> Wilson’s movements after the shooting were among a number of police actions in the aftermath of Brown’s death that experts said were unusual. The grand jury transcripts revealed, for example, that the officers who interviewed Wilson immediately after the shooting did not tape the conversations. The transcripts also showed that an investigator from the medical examiner’s office opted not to take measurements at the crime scene and arrived there believing that what happened between Brown and Wilson was “self-explanatory.’’



_Vox_ reporting today that the GJ was deliberating for two months under an outdated law:


Vox said:


> Before Wilson testified to the grand jury on September 16, prosecutors gave grand jurors an outdated statute that said police officers can shoot a suspect that's simply fleeing. This statute was deemed unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 1985; the court ruled that a fleeing suspect must, at least in a police officer's reasonable view, pose a dangerous threat to someone or have committed a violent felony to justify a shooting.
> 
> 
> Prosecutors, who had full control of the evidence presented to the grand jury, took more than two months to correct their mistake, O'Donnell said. The prosecutors on November 21 — just three days before the grand jury reached a decision — gave the correct standards to the grand jury. But as O'Donnell explained, the prosecutors didn't specify what exactly was wrong with the outdated statute — and they didn't even clearly say, after they were asked, to the grand jurors that Supreme Court rulings do indeed override Missouri law.


----------



## tonyg

@MannDude when it comes down to it, anything is deadly given enough time/force/quantity.

Heck, there was a lady that died from drinking too much water after a radio held a contest to see who could drink the most water.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/#.VHfIzlTkc7A

The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.


----------



## drmike

^--- I agree 100% with @ihatetonnyy.  Good finds there my friend!

There are abnormalities in case handling on this one.  No doubt.  

I am unsure if Ferguson PD is dirty or just inept or a healthy mix of both.

Affirmative action isn't my thing, but, government job rolls should kind of resemble the communities they serve.  Numbers I've see on racial and gender division of Ferguson don't even come close in PD rank and file.  Then again, that remains the story all over the United States.  It isn't that they can't find women and black men to be police.   Good ole boys just aren't making it real friendly place for either.

Run through the rest of the local judicial system and will likely see the same ugly disproportionate representation of OLD WHITE MEN in charge.

Perhaps it's time we all start bitching and driving their unions in the head.  They are supposed to represent the workers and be all about fairness (COUGH).

The outdated statute and the Grand Jury, well if that is all indeed true, someone should be able to bypass that prosecutor and seek indictment from a grand jury in another county in Missouri.  Jury pool there locally is tainted big time after all that has happened.


----------



## DomainBop

> Affirmative action isn't my thing, but, government job rolls should kind of resemble the communities they serve.



Some government jobs, not all.  It doesn't matter whether a clerical worker who spends their days holed up in an office processing building permits reflects the community or not or lives in the community, but government workers like police should reflect the community, and I'm a long time proponent of residency requirements for police officers (_and for an opposing viewpoint to mine, here's a good article by someone who presents some data that questions the effectiveness of residency requirements_ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/reexamining-residency-requirements-for-police-officers/ )


----------



## drmike

tonyg said:


> The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.


Punches are no joke.   Ask two pro boxers to fight bare fisted.  They won't do it.  I surely don't want to take a punch.  Of course I have little interest in gun fire receipts either.

Guns are necessary at times and last line of defense.

Force is force and is a guessing game about outcome when you are in a hostile situation.  I've been in situations too many times.  I could have justifiably shot someone to death multiple times.  I managed to avoid that, thankfully.

I would have liked to have seen less lethal force used with Mike Brown.  Why?  Not because Mr. Brown was an angel or a demon, but because police in the USA have a very bad problem with dishing out violence.  There are tons of people every year beat down, shot, injured, etc. by police gone crazy.

Some of those folks signed up for some heavy action by trying to wrastle with the copers.  Others were outright crime victims.  Mike Brown?  Hard to still say what all happened and backfill the story.

With all the dash cams and other cams.  It's a little strange the situation and lack of more camera evidence.

And, yeah, the whole walking in the middle of the street.  That is how people walk in said housing communities I've known of.   The sidewalks tend to be busted up and somewhat unsafe.   Beyond that, street walking has whole other commerce side and social aspect in such places.

Usually PD will come by, tell folks to get over  to sidewalk (usually walking side of the lane is sufficient).  Then they drive off and come loop back around to check on people they just "warned".  So something happened right there that had the officer stuck on Brown like that.

All the rioting in the world won't make life fair. In fact it just made life a lot more unfair for small business folks barely scraping by, folks who probably had nothing to do with such.  Folks in these communities must do better for themselves, for their families.  They need to participate in the community, open their own businesses, and run for public offices.

A black renaissance is good for everyone. It is hyper local.  It is long overdue.   Like overdue since Martin Luther King was murdered.  I am not talking about rap games here, fake recording studios and diversified drugs sales.  I am talking about real businesses and services the people need (restaurants, groceries, clothing stores, hardware stores, bakeries, lawyers, doctors, etc.).


----------



## ihatetonyy

tonyg said:


> @MannDude when it comes down to it, anything is deadly given enough time/force/quantity.
> 
> Heck, there was a lady that died from drinking too much water after a radio held a contest to see who could drink the most water.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/#.VHfIzlTkc7A
> 
> The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.


 TSA has the right idea.. police need to arrest anyone with more than 3.5oz of liquids for their own safety.



drmike said:


> The outdated statute and the Grand Jury, well if that is all indeed true, someone should be able to bypass that prosecutor and seek indictment from a grand jury in another county in Missouri.  Jury pool there locally is tainted big time after all that has happened.


 Gov. Jay Nixon had his chance to and didn't take it. As a member of the Democratic Party he's already dead in the water on the national stage; there's nothing for him to gain if he convenes another Grand Jury and he'd stand to lose what little political capital he has left no matter where the second GJ goes.

STL Public Radio expands on the outdated statute much more than Vox does -- I should have linked that from the get-go.

That said, _Newsweek_ called the outcome of the GJ proceedings rather well given McCulloch (the prosecutor)'s personal and professional history -- especially when one looks at the relative lopsidedness and out-of-the-ordinary structure of the grand jury proceedings.



NYT said:


> The officer’s testimony, delivered without the cross-examination of a trial in the earliest phase of the three-month inquiry, was the only direct account of the fatal encounter. It appeared to form the spine of a narrative that unfolded before the jurors over three months, buttressed, the prosecutors said, by the most credible witnesses, forensic evidence and three autopsies.
> 
> But the gentle questioning of Officer Wilson revealed in the transcripts, and the sharp challenges prosecutors made to witnesses whose accounts seemed to contradict his narrative, have led some to question whether the process was as objective as Mr. McCulloch claims.


No one will ever be satisfied on either side. The idea of releasing all of the documents was, presumably, to grant an air of legitimacy to the proceedings, but the more people dig in, the more interesting stuff they find.


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## drmike

What remains striking is the prosecutor using that invalid statute.  

But more striking, the prosecutor's father was a police officer killed by an armed black man back when he was 12 years old.

No way this fellow should have been involved in this case.  No way he couldn't be internally conflicted and highly probably to be biased and exercising from perception.


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## blergh




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## texteditor

k0nsl said:


> You sound like you are trying to describe an angel. Well, this “angel” of yours harassed a clerk, robbed the store and beat up a policeman, and he was such an “angel” that a policeman felt it necessary to draw his gun to put an end this “angel’s” life  What an “angel’! —  a burglar, wife beater and petty thief
> 
> I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.


No, he was definitely a criminal, just, ya know, not criminal enough to the degree where a hail of bullets is necessary


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## drmike

texteditor said:


> No, he was definitely a criminal, just, ya know, not criminal enough to the degree where a hail of bullets is necessary


Well, all perps deserve to be handled in civilized manner.  Brown was on a roll and in other less crime riddled places, what we saw with him hands on store owner would have received swift PD action and more ideally, an armed store owner that would have taken that straight armed shove as invitation to pack the big boy with some hot metal.  Steal from the store owner is bad, but hands on and intimidation, blah, BANG!

Bullets remain big question mark.  What was the officer packing, where was everyone in the skirmish and how in danger was the officer for real?   I still say the officer was packing standard ammo as I think I saw bullets that strayed hitting some nearby housing.  Reason why they pack hollow points is for maximum impact on perps and less likely to do damage on missed shots. The officer was wreckless with his firearm, period.  Shooting blindly when allegedly getting smacked, he's lucky more people weren't struck, like a child in their home.

Mass unloading by officers is way too common.  Plenty of examples of unarmed citizens face down, unarmed where the police have unloaded on guys murdering them.  

Instead of going totally crazy and demanding justice for Mike Brown, folks ought to be behind another martyr sacrificed to the police state.  One where the person truly wasn't up to anything.  Justice for Mike Brown is kind of lacking big picture.  The family claims his character was murdered by the media.  I think the lad did a good job of ruining his character all by himself.

Then the family, they murdered their character by yelling BURN THIS MOTHERFnCKER DOWN for 3 minutes.

Health and Human Services needs to start looking at folks like this, especially where they are beneficiaries of the taxpayers kindness.  I am a big fan of taking their WIC and food vouchers away and making folks show up to military style commissaries instead of giving them tradeable "money" that ends up misused.  As I so often have said, the behavior, the insanity, the criminality has roots in nutrition and the lack thereof.


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## ihatetonyy

St. Louis Post-Dispatch said:


> Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot Michael Brown Aug. 9, has resigned from the police department, his attorney said.
> 
> 
> Wilson, 28, who on Monday was cleared by a grand jury investigating the shooting, had been a member of the city's police department for six years.
> 
> 
> Neil Bruntrager, Wilson's attorney, said a news conference is being planned.
> 
> 
> His resignation letter reads:
> 
> 
> "I, Darren Wilson, hereby resign my commission as a police officer with the City of Ferguson effective immediately. I have been told that my continued employment may put the residents and police officers of the City of Ferguson at risk, which is a circumstance that I cannot allow. For obvious reasons, I wanted to wait until the grand jury made their decision before I officially made my decision to resign. It was my hope to continue in police work, but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. I would like to thank all of my supporters and fellow officers throughout this process."


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## ihatetonyy

drmike said:


> Bullets remain big question mark.  What was the officer packing, where was everyone in the skirmish and how in danger was the officer for real?   I still say the officer was packing standard ammo as I think I saw bullets that strayed hitting some nearby housing.  Reason why they pack hollow points is for maximum impact on perps and less likely to do damage on missed shots. The officer was wreckless with his firearm, period.  Shooting blindly when allegedly getting smacked, he's lucky more people weren't struck, like a child in their home.







drmike said:


> Instead of going totally crazy and demanding justice for Mike Brown, folks ought to be behind another martyr sacrificed to the police state. One where the person truly wasn't up to anything.


The rolling outrage has expanded after the Tamir Rice shooting.



drmike said:


> Then the family, they murdered their character by yelling BURN THIS MOTHERFnCKER DOWN for 3 minutes.


Can't say I blame them considering the reaction came out right after the verdict.. in their eyes the murderer of their child just walked off scot-free.

Hell, it's not like the people doing the rioting needed any commands to considering the family has been calling for peaceful protests for quite a while to no avail. The familiar 'ocean of piss' analogy comes to mind.


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## k0nsl

I heard this too.



> “I think I expressed to him, ‘Do you realize your first call [back on the job] will be to a blind alley where you’re executed?’ He took a pause for a minute, thought about it and said, ‘Oh.’ That is the reality.”


*Sources:*

http://time.com/3608422/ferguson-darren-wilson-michael-brown-apology-grand-jury/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-lawyers-describe-officers-life-in-hiding-laud-his-staunchness/2014/11/26/8159ec22-75bf-11e4-9d9b-86d397daad27_story.html



ihatetonyy said:


> St. Louis Post-Dispatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot Michael Brown Aug. 9, has resigned from the police department, his attorney said.
> 
> Wilson, 28, who on Monday was cleared by a grand jury investigating the shooting, had been a member of the city's police department for six years.
> 
> Neil Bruntrager, Wilson's attorney, said a news conference is being planned.
> 
> His resignation letter reads:
> 
> "I, Darren Wilson, hereby resign my commission as a police officer with the City of Ferguson effective immediately. I have been told that my continued employment may put the residents and police officers of the City of Ferguson at risk, which is a circumstance that I cannot allow. For obvious reasons, I wanted to wait until the grand jury made their decision before I officially made my decision to resign. It was my hope to continue in police work, but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. I would like to thank all of my supporters and fellow officers throughout this process."
Click to expand...


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## drmike

ihatetonyy said:


> The rolling outrage has expanded after the Tamir Rice shooting.


The Tamir Rice shooting oh my.  Even my friends with better tans than I are saying the Tamir fellow earned what he got.  I am a little less inclined to go so far.  Force of police is a tad much.

What in the world had Tamir running around with a modified gun stripped of the orange marking?

Looking at video, Tamir is waving the gun all around on a public street.  Having a firearm fine, waving them around, not fine.

Problem with Tamir is it went on and on and then PD shows up and more of the same, it seems

I don't condone suicide by cop, but this is one of those incidents.  The kid was using very bad judgement.  

Pellet gun manufacturer bears some of the blame on this one it would seem.  Orange marking shouldn't be so easy to remove.  Hell pellet guns and similar shouldn't look anything like real guns, intentionally.

Again, could police have used less lethal force?  Perhaps they could have shot him in all four limbs when he didn't comply.  Possible to do.  Might go off wrong, pot luck with moving person.

Then again, like I always ask, 12 years old, where are the parents?

The part / rec center where this happened is a community problem it seems, probably contributing to police serious response:



> 19 Action News reviewed a list of calls this year to the Cudell Recreation Center and found there were calls for weapons, shots fired and other violence on a regular basis.
> "Scaring the (expletive) out of people. Keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people," said audio from a recent 911 call.
> 
> Calls like that are common at Cudell. That particular call led Cleveland Police there the day they shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice, with a BB gun that looked like a high powered semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> We asked for a list of calls to Cudell for 2014. We found calls for a weapon, shots fired, robbery, felonious assault, and more. They weren't just occasional calls, but they happened repeatedly month after month.
> 
> Investigators said that Cudell, in the past, has been a gathering place for gang members, including some belonging to a gang that violent attacked park-goers. An officer said that one call for shots fired came with kids on the playground.
> 
> This shows why police officers say they don't see Cudell as just a playground. Too often, they have seen it a crime scene.


source: http://www.19actionnews.com/story/27503996/records-show-cudell-rec-center-has-violent-tendencies


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## drmike

ihatetonyy said:


> St. Louis Post-Dispatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot Michael Brown Aug. 9, has resigned from the police department, his attorney said.
> 
> 
> Wilson, 28, who on Monday was cleared by a grand jury investigating the shooting, had been a member of the city's police department for six years.
> 
> 
> Neil Bruntrager, Wilson's attorney, said a news conference is being planned.
> 
> 
> His resignation letter reads:
> 
> 
> "I, Darren Wilson, hereby resign my commission as a police officer with the City of Ferguson effective immediately. I have been told that my continued employment may put the residents and police officers of the City of Ferguson at risk, which is a circumstance that I cannot allow. For obvious reasons, I wanted to wait until the grand jury made their decision before I officially made my decision to resign. It was my hope to continue in police work, but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. I would like to thank all of my supporters and fellow officers throughout this process."
Click to expand...

Darren Wilson's life is ruined.  He can't go be a police officer elsewhere as people will protest that and cause issues.

First stop someone notes who he is and back in the news.

He is going to have to move to another town, if not another state, and seek employment in something entirely unrelated.


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## ihatetonyy

drmike said:


> Looking at video, Tamir is waving the gun all around on a public street.  Having a firearm fine, waving them around, not fine.
> 
> Problem with Tamir is it went on and on and then PD shows up and more of the same, it seems
> 
> I don't condone suicide by cop, but this is one of those incidents.  The kid was using very bad judgement.
> 
> Again, could police have used less lethal force?  Perhaps they could have shot him in all four limbs when he didn't comply.  Possible to do.  Might go off wrong, pot luck with moving person.



Why pull up right next to someone waving a gun? Barring all lethal force training, isn't it basic common sense -- that _has_ to be reinforced during whatever training they get for these kinds of situations -- not to place yourself within feet of someone who you suspect to have a weapon?
Especially in an area rife with gun calls?
The full quote from the call reads as follows -- from the Guardian article:

“I’m sitting in the park ... There’s a guy here with a pistol pointing it at everybody,” the caller says. “The guy keeps pulling it in and out of his pants, _it’s probably fake_ but you know what, he’s scaring the shit out of people.”

Dispatch never passed this along.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but in the released video it literally takes only two to three seconds before he's shot. Did the police shout the order to show his hands at the speed of an auctioneer?
In stark contrast:


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## drmike

ihatetonyy said:


> Why pull up right next to someone waving a gun? Barring all lethal force training, isn't it basic common sense -- that _has_ to be reinforced during whatever training they get for these kinds of situations -- not to place yourself within feet of someone who you suspect to have a weapon?
> Especially in an area rife with gun calls?
> The full quote from the call reads as follows -- from the Guardian article:
> 
> “I’m sitting in the park ... There’s a guy here with a pistol pointing it at everybody,” the caller says. “The guy keeps pulling it in and out of his pants, _it’s probably fake_ but you know what, he’s scaring the shit out of people.”
> 
> Dispatch never passed this along.
> Perhaps I'm wrong, but in the released video it literally takes only two to three seconds before he's shot. Did the police shout the order to show his hands at the speed of an auctioneer?
> In stark contrast:


I agree that PD in Cleveland got way too close all considering.  Their securing the scene wasn't bright.  Either their training was lacking or it's was time overdue for more followup training.  Cleveland is another shithole of a place not known for having a properly trained PD.

No doubt that Cleveland PD deployed rapid bang bang action.  Whether the kid made that necessary, I can't say from that video.   Not complying with PD orders when you have a gun in sight is just a retarded move.  I am assuming that is what happened there.  Hoping so, otherwise the PD bears more responsibility.

The video you posted of Michigan, that's more like it and how police should be dealing with things.  There is no crime in carrying a firearm.  This old timer wasn't waving the gun around though. Appears to be at shoulder the whole time minus some normal adjustments.   What he was doing, was entirely lawful even if busy being pissed at someone across the street.  I wonder what came out of the whole situation there.

What did I learn?  Auto Zone is a reoccurring location for problems     Auto Zone was scene of multiple Ferguson insurrection events.


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## tonyg

I realize that what the old guy is doing is legal, but who the hell would feel comforable in the immediate area around the old guy?

I don't care how pro-gun someone is, anyone in the vicinity is going to be on edge.

That law is ridiculous.


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## tonyg

Well, Wilson is not out of the woods yet...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/justice/missouri-ferguson-darren-wilson-grand-jury-outcome/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


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## drmike

tonyg said:


> I realize that what the old guy is doing is legal, but who the hell would feel comforable in the immediate area around the old guy?
> 
> I don't care how pro-gun someone is, anyone in the vicinity is going to be on edge.
> 
> That law is ridiculous.


Meh, I am not worried about that old dude.  In fact I'd probably stand in eyesight and make sure all is cool and ask him to chill since he has the gun and all.   Been there before encouraging people to calm down.  Bound to get shot?  Perhaps, but like any other show of force a guy like that isn't out to harm folks usually.   As long as people are communicating we are getting somewhere and establishing things.

However, there are people like him who have just gone off or should have never been in possession of such and that's a bad time.  One of those out there, meh, I am less inclined to interfere with.  I mean a random shooting all crazy ass like that and old boy is headed on a vacation for a long while ideally.

I know a guy punked by gangbangers and they tried driving him out of his own home where his family has been for 40 years.  Guy was shot on his own street and put in the hospital pretty ugly.    This was after local PD confiscated his firearms for sitting on his porch with a gun due to the regular [read: daily] violence, criminality, gun play, etc.

I am glad for Castle Doctrine and general concept of stay away from my property or I can use the shotgun to divide a bad actor from his / her life.  Not many hers out doing stupid like that, but they exist.

I'll say it and not avoid it, but old white guy vs. young black male. Most people regardless of color, income, living environment, etc. would wisely say they would be more concerned with the young black male waving the gun around vs. the geezer  imitating back when he was in the Civil War.  Statistically, they'd be right as gun violence in the young black male culture is out of control.  Old timers tend to have moral compasses in tact and multiple things to loose like their reputation, freedom, etc.  Contrast that to the urbanized stereotypical black male who just in huge swathes doesn't care about his own well being or anyone elses.

Now mind you,  I had a black friend murdered many many years ago a near proximity to me over his drug dealing.  Shot in the head multiple times.  A mess, a smell, a feeling all the chemical cleaners nor death will ever wash from me.

I understand the struggles, the life, the discrimination, etc.  I'll never understand why after all these decades the degenerate TRAP/RAP/DRUG culture continues to be glorified in our black communities.  We can talk to the real Ricky Ross about the crack epidemic and war apparatus behind the mind fnckery.  I want to believe it's a mental screwjob / brainwashing, and not a hugh population swath being suicidal.  It's sad.

Next time they riot, pick better targets.  Take something out that needs taken out.  Not the local liquor store, unless the community feels they can't deal with liquor / the liquor store is somehow victimizing the youths through illegal sales or something.  I choose Planned Parenthood - since abortion is at genocide levels in these communities.

Sadly all the regular cap in your a$$, bang bang AK talk, hyper military crap spewed by that society isn't showing up and doing much of anything.  I wouldn't mind these folks walking their 'hoods, policing their 'hoods, looking out for their people. But they won't cause B*TCHES GET STITCHES and SNITCHES GO IN DITCHES. The terrorize their own people.

How can anyone salvage these communities?  I am not even addressing the actual underlying violent crime statistics which are a sad indictment of the dysfunction of hyper urban young black men.

Families.  These people really need to establish families and quit replacing the man of the house with an Uncle Scam check.

Churches.  These folks use to be adherents of God.   It set up some mental checksum.  With the decline, well the community at large has fallen.

Respect. Do I need to elaborate?


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## vRozenSch00n

drmike said:


> Families.
> 
> Churches.


^ Those. The source of value system that keeps a human being be a human.


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## tonyg

This photo says it all:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/29/living/ferguson-protest-hug/index.html?hpt=hp_c3


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## drmike

Go Portland!  A little more friendly out there.

How about the PD riding BMW motorcycles... Hipsters.

Some more good photos from the same photographer.

Funny Portland PD at least in these photos wasn't out in riot gear, although a big crowd.

Portland continues to show positive population growth.  St. Louis continues to show population decline.

Policing and general life sentiments contribute to well being of a city or decline. The old industrial giants of towns continue to have per capita income lagging, old stubborn ways, and heavy handed policing.


----------

