# The truth about Mao and BuyVM



## maounique

_ !! Thread was split from: !! - MD _



tchen said:


> Slow news day.


Do you know that CC still denies it ? mpkossen himself told me he doesnt think there is any truth in these "investigations" and Spirit said he has to protect the innocents from the lynchmob here 

As long as the lies will continue from there, full disclosure here is required. 

OK, the solveddos has been pulled, but all the others remained.

People claim they cannot be bothered to check the offers, hidden whois is perfectly ok because they dont need pizza flyers and kevdam is a poor guy bullied by everyone because CVPS said he exist and saw his ssn.

Spirit even told me with a straight face that since I sign as John deer the tickets I am in the same boat, like Uncle ever said he saw my John Deer ID and that person exists and he dealt with it.

For the people here that remember it, do you think BuyVM would have ever admitted they have a network problem if i didnt keep dogging them until the truth came out and tens of people posted speedtests ? Until then it was just weird routing and a psycho with a fixation, after that was the DC, of course, the same excuse they used to mock when anyone else was using it. 

I say keep up the investigations, they will keep banning people, but hiding the truth wont work. A team effort will be needed to make them give back the IPs they are hoarding to sell at a big profit later, making lists with their customers wont work, it hurts some honest people and only proves they have many customers therefore the ip allocation is justiffied when only a few of those have more than a couple of servers while being also frontmen for CC covert operations.


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## drmike

@Mao, I am GLAD to see you over here 


Spirit seems like a good dude, but I am totally unsure why he is blind about reality over on Lowend*. Do they pay him to be so inept?


I mean we saw Kossen have integrity the do a 180 turn and claim it is too much to research offers while mouthing in the back channels about "others" who are also engaging in shell companies -- as if that justifies anything. These fellows are paid or bribed or offered freebies which have done away with their integrity and common sense.


If Kossen and Lowend wanted offers vetted they'd pay me to do the work.


Kevdam --- hehe - that little sh!t actually DMCA'd this site over "my" avatar --- as Adam Ng... Me I say that is a photo of Kevin Hillstrand and Adam has no claim  Faboozili and having his SSN, as if... proven to be a lie again.


There is a funnier Kevdam story that I'll tell now... Someone collaborated to discredit Kevdam before his outing with his fabricated New York stories - as if he was there. Someone sent him a satellite photo asking if it was CVPS/CC headquarters and he said oh yeah that's it. Meanwhile it was an image of a prison states away 


As for the CC hosts / customers --- they'd be doing better with a real company without future impending possible doom and without 50 competitors also hosting with CC for $1.50 a month.


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## DomainBop

> Spirit even told me with a straight face that since I sign as John deer the tickets I am in the same boat, like Uncle ever said he saw my John Deer ID and that person exists and he dealt with it.



There's a big difference between the two.  Your John Deer ID is basically a pen name you use when answering tickets (and you don't try to cover up the fact that J.D.=Mao), while Adam's "Kevin" was a 24/7 fabricated person complete with fake Facebook and LinkedIn profiles (and a fake family in NYC).  One of the primary reasons for the creation of "Kevin Hillstrand" was because Hostlatch (the company Spirit called _" relatively successful company Hostlatch"_ when he chasticized me for picking on Adam) and its then 14-15 year old owner "Adam Jack" basically screwed a bunch of customers and was a really crappy quality provider and Adam created "Kevin" after selling HostLatch to try to cover up his past (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hostlatch+%2Bsite%3Awebhostingtalk.com).


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## maounique

I know Spirit is a nice guy, but he is so bitter these day that he doesnt see the fun. I dont know what they feed him, but I sent him this as a joke and he went crazy attacking me with bad words he should have been banned for close to Aldryic style that blew me away and I played along a bit. He considered the following as a genuine thing, whereas everyone would have seen the word sarcasm all over:

"If you wish to ban DomainBop for bringing up embarassing moments in the past of CC you can use the BuyVM approach, make a few accounts to post memes about him being butthurt and a few others requesting him to be banned, add a few flags to his posts and, by general vote he will be banned for being annoying. After he was banned you can also say he attacked or supported the attacks against LET and it is all by the book, clear-cut case."

That was before DB actually left, he said he never attacked or warned him as an administrator, in this post:

Spirit Administrator

edited December 28




@DomainBop how long will you go on with this? Is there a way for Adam to post anything at all without you getting all emotional again? I am saying this because there's a big chance that people don't want to read the same stuff or be part of your targeted vendetta in every non related thread all the time.




That was only his personal opinion annoyed by his constant reminders of CC and CVPS shady deals and lies. He went as far as saying we are the lynchmob buyvm style that cornered the poor winning guy and his pupil Kevin. Note the "people" excuse, he says it s his personal opinion, but that he is about to do will be in the interest of the "people". Perhaps he means the CC people, but missed the detail.

Spirit was a really spirited guy (pun intended), but I think CC puts something in his soda, he went nuts since a few days (which is understandable since he is given an impossible task, covering the truth by banning his friends and declaring holy wars to them). 

I will probably be banned there soon, BuyVM style, but past events proved that willnot stop the truth from being spread.


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## joepie91

Mr. Obvious said:


> Another day, another CC hate thread.
> 
> Perhaps you should go outside?


Go figure - apparently CC is involved in enough shady crap to warrant constant new threads, without duplicates.


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## drmike

I feel for anyone still left chattering on Lowend* or trying. Between the constant sinking of threads, banning on folks and throw our admin hands in the air routine, it's like watching a slow motion trainwreck into a school bus full of nuns.


Now Mao, I know you harbor some bad juju about BuyVM in the past. Hopefully, somehow that can be made well in the future. I never had the experience with them inhibiting my forum time. Their participation in Lowend* prior to the hostile take-under/over was fairly big, but I never knew them to hold the keys to the site and dish things out. Not saying it didn't happen, but like I said before, gather the materials, tell a history lesson and have at a thread. If anything, it makes me triply support no provider operating or being near the operating of one of these sites. Too easy to get yanked into bad stuff or associated.


Spirit is a good dude, but something is afoul for sure. Being a moderator over there is dealing with constant sh!t storms and tit-for-tat brawls. I wish they'd be more diligent about researching offering companies and vetting the money. They won't/can't and I suspect Spirit and Kossen are both conflicted. Either listen to CC or beat it. For some reason the cash or their community perception matters more than integrity.


"lynchmob buyvm style that cornered the poor winning guy and his pupil Kevin."


Those two guys should have learned by now not to play games like they do.


Why does Spirit equate BuyVM is a lynchmob? Last time I checked it was two main guys and a few others in support. Hardly a mob... Not even enough folks for a proper sports team.


All I can say about Kevdam is:




Funny, LEB still has offers and comments from Kevin Hillstrand:

http://lowendbox.com/blog/chicagovps-21quarter-3gb-openvz-in-atlanta-buffalo-chicago-and-los-angeles/


^--- more work for moderation on LEB/LET.


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## maounique

The issue with buyvm is that they suddenly started attacking Tor hosts as being at least immoral if not outright child abusers. That struck me as strange and i started an investigation for 2 months and slowly reached the problem, they were serving thousands of customers each with at least 500 GB traffic allocated on a 2 gbps line. Now, doing the math, it was painfully obvious that cannot work in practice and something got to give, either almost all people suffer, they put some limitation, kick people using most alloted traffic under various pretexts or all of the above. 

When it became political and started to call us names (Tor operators, it was more than 6 months before I joined Uncle) i called their bluff and started a long struggle to prove their network sucks. Because they were the dear of the community and owners over Chief (Francisco refused the keys and put Chief as the strawman because wanted to avoid the issues that are now bubbling there under CC rule and give the appearance of legitimity to every second thread praising them) that didnt wor well at first,it took time before people actually started to compare speeds from different providers.

It was a long thread where people started in the end sharing their speeds and we all could see what was in reality the quality network of BuyVM. Aldryic tried a lot of intimidation techniques, from name calling (which should have earned him a ban directly) to memes and other attacks together with the whole BuyVM gang, which I suspect some were only fake accounts but i kept going polite and show the flaws in the logic, did math again every page and the evidence kept coming. 

Their mistake was that they didnt ban me from the start, after the cat was out of the bag, the ban came too late and for the ridiculous reason (varies depending whom you ask) of being annoying or because I was paising constantinos for the DDoS.

They have no reason to ban me today either, so they try to pull the "annoying" trick again or set me up with something, however, I know it is coming and already said my goodbyes. The same "annoying" trick tried Spirit with DomainBob, see the "people" which nobody asked for an opinion that were behind Spirit in his heroic attempt to protect kevdam from the lynchmob, starting a holy war against prometeus by dropping the gazillion VMs that had with such a bad provider (I told him he started to sound like jarland on dope, I wonder why people without arguments try to bring prometeus in this when it has nothing to do with it, i voice my opinion as a forum member, I might be wrong, so what ?)

As you can see, history is repeating itself, people which dont like some points of view and opinions are pulling the "annoying" trick to get rid of people that didnt break any rule while their protegees are breaking not only written rules, but also minimalistic decency rules. Just look at that guy, mazker, banned ban evasion, stillt here proven scammer and illegal activities operator, yet he is still on while "The People" discuss my banning. 

At first I said CC rule is better than what BuyVM rule was, but now they start to show true colours, they understood they can no longer tolerate dissent as  too many of their shady deals are getting exposed, this forum and probably a free one that might spawn later will expose such practices and in the end everyone will lose. Who doesnt learn from the mistakes of the past is condemned to repeat them.


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## drmike

Mao, trust me being the ban evader over there and one semi-often earlier mistaken for being you, that sometimes, we are so right, yet somehow we continue to get slapped around and ridiculed.


I really welcome a full and separate BuyVM thread and ideally something constructive from all involved. BuyVM has always been straight with me. I suspect there is more to the story and I hope we can make something good of the prior bad experience you had. I see the Tor and users vs. bandwidth thing. Imaginary resources abound in this industry --- wondering if that was a case of such then vs. misrepresentation intentionally?


This forum will continue to be provider neutral and heavy on dialogue about outright wrong behavior of providers as well as pointing out the suspected may be bad behavior. As long as I am here and participating this forum will stay clean and neutral, albeit heavy on CC due to what transpired over there and continued abuse of those sites. It is a HUGE concern that such sites be provider unaffiliated to prevent censorship and upstream provider bias.



> I was paising constantinos for the DDoS


Oh, you did that too  Hehe no wonder why folks thought we might be one in the same  We should exhume that dead body and revisit what happened with those attacks. In light of timelines, ownership and what we know today. I never really bought Constantinos being implicated, however, I wasn't intimately involved/never saw the real proof then.


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## wlanboy

Mao said:


> The issue with buyvm is that they suddenly started attacking Tor hosts as being at least immoral if not outright child abusers. That struck me as strange and i started an investigation for 2 months and slowly reached the problem, they were serving thousands of customers each with at least 500 GB traffic *allocated on a 2 gbps line*. Now, doing the math, it was painfully obvious that cannot work in practice and something got to give, either almost all people suffer, they put some limitation, kick people using most alloted traffic under various pretexts or all of the above.


I remember the ban of TOR hosters.

Would explain some test readings through that time.


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## SrsX

@drmike: If you dig a bit you'll find a shutdown server and viewing via google archives you'll find solveddos.sql database.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Aldryic tried a lot of intimidation techniques,


Who is this kid?  And why are they so obsessed with trying to concoct lies about me?


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## Jack

Mao said:


> they were serving thousands of customers each with at least 500 GB traffic allocated on a 2 gbps line. Now, doing the math, it was painfully obvious that cannot work in practice and something got to give, either almost all people suffer, they put some limitation, kick people using most alloted traffic under various pretexts or all of the above.


I don't agree with this, EGI put xx number of Gbit ports on a 10Gbit switch or something.. Fran I think is very open with the operation they run.



> Not 'till now'. When we moved from EGI we pushed about 700Mbit/sec and rarely go anywhere near even 1Gbit/sec. Short of throwing a flood out the door there was no way to push it 'past' that point.
> 
> Once in LV we got the router racked up and peaked around 1.3 - 1.4Gbit/sec of usage with LACP's. At that point we were simply suffering from the hashing the CPU has to do as well as the terrible interrupt handling the e1000 nic's have. We bought a nice brocade we were going to use but at only 2 x 10Gbit ports we ran out of ports when trying to do port mirroring. The brocade would have done LACP w/o issue i'm sure since its hashing is handled in hardware, not dumped on the CPU.
> 
> The new box is a dual hex core E5 2620 w/ Intel x520's. We got 4 x 10gbit ports and 6 x 1Gbit ports using IGB* based drivers which have proper queue support. We sit at 0.0 - 0.2 loads at 1.2 - 1.4Gbit/sec. Autonull munches on some CPU so we're now sitting at < 0.5 loads (half a core in other words).
> 
> Francisco


Fran posted that on LET after the LV move... 

They didn't use anywhere near Gbit nevermind the 2Gbit they had.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Don't worry about him, Jack.  I remember who he is now.. the kid that got all shades of butthurt over my opinion, and despite the very clear declaration that is was my opinion alone, the kid decided to wage some kind of war against BuyVM as a whole, going as far as to invent ridiculous stories regarding the networking issues we had with EGI.  What's hilarious is, when presented with any form of truth he dislikes, he will simply fabricate new stories to believe in.

He was under some kind of impression that I had some kind of power at LET (go ask any mod ever about that, they'll laugh in your face), rather than realizing it was his own childish actions that brought any sort of repercussion down on him.  That'll never change, and we'll likely see the same cycle repeat itself here unless he finally grows up.


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## maounique

wlanboy said:


> I remember the ban of TOR hosters.
> 
> Would explain some test readings through that time.


They said they are doing it on moral grounds because we are all child molesters, then they changed tune when quite a few people on let were proven to be "child molesters" and they said they do it because it is risky. When I proved that a relay will not be risky at all, they slapped a 5$ surcharge on it and allowed it for a short time.

All the time the real reason whas that the poor 2 gbps line was drowning under the pressure of so many people and if they started to use 10% of their allocation nothing would have been working anymore.

We have maybe half the customers buyvm had then i tell you 2 gbps will not be enough even for 10% of them at peak times. 

Even today BuyVM denies they were pulling the strings on LET, even if Francisco admitted he helped Chief (frankly that guy was incompetent, the little he did was Fran's work) you know what happened when there was enough proof CC is running LET, but that didnt happen under buyvm rule. 

What i say here is that history is repeating itself, now CC tries to ban me by the hand of Spirit/mpkossen when in the past BuyVM banned me by the hand of Chief. 

All because I was telling things that were annoying to the owners. Not because I broke any rule, on the contrary, aldryic and spirit were the ones calling names and breaking the rules of decency, yet, being annoying and knowing nothing about the issue at hand are capital sins that merit bans, even admitting they are true.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Mao, you do realize that you're doing nothing more than starting old shit right up again, correct?  There's no chance I'm going to sit around and let you tell your childish lies about BuyVM.

My advice to you?  Stop acting like a kid, grow up, and move on.  You had plenty of time to express your opinions before - don't ruin another community with your bullshit.


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## maounique

Then dont let me. You didnt before either, this is what i try to say, CC does the same you did, but now you are the good guys and defend freedom of speech when you did exactly the same when you ruled the place. 

I wouldnt play the saint if I were you, I would prove I learned something from the past and I humbly admit I was wrong in the CC case, I thought the attacks were exagerated (I still think that to some point), their rule is not better than yours and will get worse. 

I am merely pointing out how history is repeating itself.  CC didnt learn from your example, you understood nothing from the past.

What you fail to understand as well as CC is that I dont care if I am banned, Uncle doesnt care either frankly I am a liability in these forums and I know it, because of my "attitude" Francisco will punish Prometeus, so being banned will be better for everyone except for the truth.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Then dont let me.


Don't worry, I won't let you.  Any time you tell your lies, I'll be there to let people know just how untrustworthy you and your stories are.  I can't wait for you to claim that I can get people banned though.  It's typical of you - always blaming someone else for your own faults and problems.



Mao said:


> I wouldnt play the saint if I were you,


I never play the saint.  I'm the asshole of BuyVM, and I say that proudly.  YOUR mistake was thinking you could play at all.



Mao said:


> I learned something from the past and I humbly admit I was wrong in the CC case, I thought the attacks were exagerated (I still think that to some point)


 

Too bad you stopped learning there.  Hard evidence has been shoved in your face before about EGI's screwed up network, and you ignored it then.  Continuing to ignore that while admitting fault regarding CC just shows how butthurt you are over _MY_ opinion regarding TOR - you're willing to continue to tell lies about a company simply because you have a difference in opinion with a single person.

 




Mao said:


> I am merely pointing out how history is repeating itself.



The difference here is that we never owned or ran LET.  And despite all of your lies, you or anyone else will _NEVER_ find proof otherwise, as it does not exist.



Mao said:


> I dont care if I am banned, Uncle doesnt care either frankly I am a liability in these forums


The latter of this is the most truthful thing you have ever said.  It wouldn't surprise me if Sal cut you loose for your actions - you're trying VERY hard to stir up problems between BuyVM and Prometeus simply by bringing him into the picture.  But Sal is 100% uninvolved, and MannDude knows very well that you do not represent the company of a better man than you.  You, and you alone, will suffer the consequences of your actions.



Mao said:


> because of my "attitude" Francisco will punish Prometeus, so being banned will be better for everyone except for the truth.


Only you suffer because of your childish actions.  With the above, you have just insulted two good men that want nothing to do with your bullshit;  you owe apologies to them both.


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## Aldryic C'boas

wlanboy said:


> He cannot "ruin" this community by bashing.
> 
> If he would be able to ruin it - Dr. Mike had allready killed it with the CC rants.
> 
> For me only the target is different.
> 
> But this should only be a problem of BuyVM and not one of the community.


Correct.  Problem is, the kid never could keep his rants private, or even focused to single threads.  Notice how this thread has nothing to do with us?  Yet already he tried to drag up old crap in a completely unrelated thread.

The biggest difference is, pub will create dedicated CC threads, and typically only participate in CC hate in unrelated threads if it has already been brought up.  Mao here will try to derail every thread he can with this nonsense, and in the end the community suffers most for it.


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## Jack

Aldryic C said:


> I never play the saint.  I'm the asshole of BuyVM, and I say that proudly.


I'll give you that one


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## vRozenSch00n

I know Spirit since December 2008 as a fellow LEBers and LETers. He is a "straight to the point" and "see no evil hear no evil" kind of guy. He and some long timers like Mao, DB, Sleddog and many more is one of the reason that I kept lurking at LEB & LET.

IMHO he is quite frustrated of trying to be a good forum administrator who see unjust conduct while his hands are tied, and it is uneasy for someone who has been with LEB & LET for some times to just leave and forget, and I don't think its about money, but more likely his good standing.

Edit: changed the year from 2009


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## maounique

I also agree on Spirit's part. He was the one opening a thread asking why I was banned (and a few others with me). Nobody had a clear explanation, some tried to make up lies that I was supported DDoSing LET even tho nobody could find a post in which i said those things, nor show some PMs. 

I was even more surprised by his sudden attack on me when i was simply joking. Was a sad joke tho DB really left because of his "opinion" backed by "The People". It was a horrible sensation of deja vu, only with other people. 

He is not understanding the issues now, but he will, I am waiting that moment when we can be friends again, the truth will no longer stand between us. I am confident Spirit will not play their games when he will wake up and I am also confident that will be soon. 

It is wrong this has nothing to do with BuyVM, it has a lot to do, the events are strikingly similar, there are a few differences for example BoyVM still denies they ruled LET in spite of accepting they were having the database and did work there as chief was merely a name. CC tried to keep it secret, but it didnt work, so they had to admit it, albeit later. There are also other differences but not of substance. Both reigns reject dissent, both are ruling through intermediaries, both banned people which didnt break any rule but allowed the real rule-breakers attack the banned people and spread lies about them even after they were banned, both treat people with different measures based ont heir interests, for example BuyVM was ridiculing all hosts that were invoking the "DC fault" and even had a meme about it, but then when it was finally proven beyond any reason of a doubt their netowrk sucks, you guessed it, was DC's fault. Our winning boy is also ridiculing other providers for faults of which he is much more guilty. The parallels can continue, but it is sad nobody will see it through, losing the forest in the back of the trees. The memes and insults do work. At least for a while.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> It is wrong this has nothing to do with BuyVM, it has a lot to do, the events are strikingly similar, there are a few differences for example BoyVM still denies they ruled LET in spite of accepting they were having the database and did work there as chief was merely a name.


Prove it, boy.  And if you're going to make accusations, have the balls to speak to me directly.


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## maounique

I have nothing to discuss with you, you didnt withdraw the insults and until you do you are not worth talking to. Francisco himself admitted it, I think you two should meet and ask each other what proof I need to post, the PMs where he was telling me that or where he was threatening to hack prometeus solus if uncle doesnt kick me ? 

Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.


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## Aldryic C'boas

Oh, I know you PMed him, and I know about your ridiculous demand that I publicly apologize to you.  News flash:  Not going to happen.  I also know that Fran doesn't make threats, period.  But now, you've played a dangerous hand.

I demand proof of Francisco threatening to hack Prometeus.  Proof you can never provide, because as always you do nothing but tell lies.

Funny how in a single thread you go from "BuyVM oversells network" to "EGI has shitty network" - maybe you should stick to a single story.

And if you have nothing to discuss with me, then I strongly suggest you simply stop mentioning me or BuyVM.  You may be accustomed to hiding behind a monitor and saying what you like - but you can't hide from me, kid.  Any time you decide to tell lies about us, I'll be there to show just what a dishonest coward you are.


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## vRozenSch00n

As I remember, Tor host banning was in a chaotic time where LEB was DDoSed constantly and heavily, not to mention there are several other providers who wants to have control over LEB & LET.

Everybody was in a jumpy situation and AFAIK Francisco was helping LEB mitigating the attack and has nothing to do with the LEB & LET ownership.

There is some truth about BuyVM network, but their $15 is quite popular and without overselling, nothing would work.

I'm sorry if I didn't remember things correctly as my head is still using SDRAM


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## Aldryic C'boas

vRozenSch00n said:


> There is some truth about BuyVM network, but their $15 is quite popular and without overselling, nothing would work.


 

I would love to see some proof of this 'truth'.  We've always been fully open about what goes on between us and our DCs, for better or worse.  When we found out about EGI's massive overselling, we had no problems explaining to our clients exactly what the issue with the network was, and why we were leaving the DC.

 

We've also answered claims about us "overselling" our nodes before, as well.  I strongly suggest reading some of that before you make assumptions, Rozen.


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## Aldryic C'boas

You know what... I just had a hilarious thought.  And since it's apparently "make shit up as you go" storytime, let's run with it 

Here we have an active thread that's pretty much anti-CC.  Mao jumps in, barely (if even) touches the topic at hand, and tries REALLY damn hard to turn it into an anti-BuyVM thread.  I wonder how much Jon's paying him to cause trouble?


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## vRozenSch00n

Aldryic C said:


> I would love to see some proof of this 'truth'.  We've always been fully open about what goes on between us and our DCs, for better or worse.  When we found out about EGI's massive overselling, we had no problems explaining to our clients exactly what the issue with the network was, and why we were leaving the DC.


See, I told you my memory could have been broken    The truth is I trust BuyVM and I entrust my main services with you.



Aldryic C said:


> We've also answered claims about us "overselling" our nodes before, as well.  I strongly suggest reading some of that before you make assumptions, Rozen.


Yes, "overselling" is actually optimizing resources IMHO.


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## Aldryic C'boas

There's a very big difference between overselling and optimization.  Optimization is that we sell very specific plans (we don't offer custom plans for this reason), and each node is dedicated to a plan type.  This gives us a very clear limit on how many plans we can put per node, and what hardware the node needs to be running to meet our minimum profit cap.  If we have spare resources, we'll utilize them.  We won't try to cram extra VMs onto a node just to make a buck.


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## vRozenSch00n

Aldryic C said:


> There's a very big difference between overselling and optimization.  Optimization is that we sell very specific plans (we don't offer custom plans for this reason), and each node is dedicated to a plan type.  This gives us a very clear limit on how many plans we can put per node, and what hardware the node needs to be running to meet our minimum profit cap.  If we have spare resources, we'll utilize them.  We won't try to cram extra VMs onto a node just to make a buck.


I know that Aldryc.  Now please don't get mad at me and stomp me.


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## Aldryic C'boas

No worries, I'm not mad.  Simply making a correction before misinformation gets out of hand.  Careless wording can often cause just as much damage as intentional lies.


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## wlanboy

Aldryic C said:


> Correct.  Problem is, the kid never could keep his rants private, or even focused to single threads.  Notice how this thread has nothing to do with us?  Yet already he tried to drag up old crap in a completely unrelated thread.
> 
> The biggest difference is, pub will create dedicated CC threads, and typically only participate in CC hate in unrelated threads if it has already been brought up.  Mao here will try to derail every thread he can with this nonsense, and in the end the community suffers most for it.


So if I can count correctly he is allowed to create about 30 "BuyVM is bad" topics 

And of course after that about 30 "Xavvo or Catalysthost is bad" topics too.

Yup I was waiting for a situation like this. Dr. Mike lowered the bar of "what should be allowed" to the absolut minimum.

It was tollerated because it was CC. Now you have to tollerate the same amount of bully content for yourself.

Or as I said to my little son:



> Do as you would be done by!


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## drmike

I really recommend Mao starts a dedicated thread, or later we can have moderation move the off topic posts to a new thread. That we do here 


EGI and p!ss poor network. Yeah, remember it as a customer and my first taste of BuyVM. I was highly disappointed. But, at that point, support was forthcoming and Fran even contacted me personally when I made a fuss about it.


No worries or foul on anyones part so far... I think Mao has some unresolved matters about prior involvement of BuyVM in LET and honestly, it's probably a decent history lesson for many of us.


No talks about this provider attacking that provider or Uncle yanked into this. Both Proemeteus and BuyVM are rather exceptional companies in the low-cost VPS market. Both are competent and good people. I am a customer of both 


Continue...


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## Aldryic C'boas

wlanboy said:


> So if I can count correctly he is allowed to create about 30 "BuyVM is bad" topics
> 
> And of course after that about 30 "Xavvo or Catalysthost is bad" topics too.


I'd be fine with that   I could easily deal with those threads as they arose, and folks not wanting to deal with the drama could ignore the threads completely.

I take issue with unrelated threads being derailed, which pisses everyone off.


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## vRozenSch00n

> Do as you would be done by!


That's a good one


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## Aldryic C'boas

drmike said:


> No worries or foul on anyones part so far... I think Mao has some unresolved matters about prior involvement of BuyVM in LET and honestly, it's probably a decent history lesson for many of us.


Yeah, he seems to be convinced that "I banned him" or some such nonsense.  As if he would be special enough to be the only person I would've banned, given the chance?  He's just some kid butthurt over my opinions about TOR - I've known plenty of others far more irritating.


----------



## drmike

Maybe I just selectively read poorly...

Adryic, what was and now is your opinion about TOR?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

drmike said:


> Maybe I just selectively read poorly... Adryic, what was and now is your opinion about TOR?


My personal opinion - TOR may have started with 'noble goals'.. but quite honestly, it has ALWAYS been a service for hiding what you're doing.  Regardless of intent, this will always be heavily misused.  It is fact (not opinion) that child pornography and other unsavoury services exist on TOR.  It is my opinion that removing responsibility from a person (ie - anonymity) will far more often lead to immaturity than not.  Combining this, it is not a service that I would ever advocate or support - especially when alternatives such as secured VPNs exist.

Personally, I am 100% against allowing TOR - especially given how easy it's been to compromise by various governments.  Simply too much liability on the provider, and next to zero on the abuser.  THAT is my opinion.


----------



## wlanboy

vRozenSch00n said:


> That's a good one


Thanks.

We will see what happens if 20% of the latest topics are about "bad BuyVM" and if the topics are on page 1 of google search results.

Hey they pushed the seo of vpsboard to harm CC - but this knife can bite back.

I am waiting for a statement like "this does have detrimental influence on business and therefore the topic was deleted".


----------



## drmike

Interesting Adryic.


I am on the same fence rail as you about TOR. Slightly different footing, but I am entirely distrustful of TOR.


As a parent the child stuff bothers me, but not as much as some folks. Same bad content exists otherwise on the normal net, via private networks, postal mail, etc. I look at all porn as problematic. CP is yucky obviously and legally a hot button nasty being abused to set folks up. So I think it's overblown. Now, you try pulling that kind of behavior on my children, my friend Smith &amp; Wesson will cure you of your ills.


TOR I take as being a honeypot. Like most tech solutions to traditional worldly shortcomings a mere half baked solution comes along and everyone hops on, but few up to task actually audit and study the underlaying technology, crypto, etc.


TOR's noble goals... last time I checked seems to have been funded by the usual goverment ops groups... Naval money was the odd ball in the mix. People behind it from tech perspective, meh, not really buying their spiel.


Anonymity I am 1000000% for. Even if it is believed to make some act more immature and others more likely to take risks. Eventually that novelty wears off for folks.


VPN is a tracked and traced technology. No way to be a whistleblower with merely a VPN. That's a place that TOR fills the need, if you trust your life in that way.


+1 on compromises and monitoring end nodes.


+1 on too much provider liability


----------



## maounique

How the heck quoting works here ?

Anyway, I wont post any screenshot without his permission, but you already know that as you say he told you.. I even reminded him those claims are recorded.

Since CC will ban me, I made many screenshots not only about Francisco, but also about Spirit, the even-handed admin that swears like he is trying to match you. 

And you can threaten me as much as you like, I dont really care as I didnt care before, what makes you think I am more scared now than 18 months ago ? 

It was a simple issue, you started attacking Tor operators and i found that odd especially the violence of the attack, so i dug up the truth which you didnt admit until then.

It was always the crusade against wrongdoers, not the fact that your network coldnt handle it. It was weird routing, it was some switch, then DCs fault. You needed 1 month + to make up your mind and in the end was the dc which you were ridiculing everyone for saying before. Each new version was backed with "facts" that were not sustaining the mathematical proof, even with large aproximations in your favour.

I have no demands for apologising, I told Francisco that will never happen, I prefer it this way, for example now I am able to call you on the attacks on CC, showing how you did the same in many aspects.

You say I was paid by CC... Sure. Probably they will also ban me to make their story more credible. In fact, I have no doubt they would do that if the situation would have been as such. 

No, Mr. Aldryic, see I am talking to you, even if you are not worthy, nobody pays me or payd me to tell what i think is true.  

I told francisco I wont be coming here, he has his forum, I have mine, but CC's one is no longer mine, so things changed. But, of course, you can always ask me to leave, no need to ban me. This was a parallel between CC and BuyVM rule over LET, each time you will claim you are the good guys after you behaved the same way, I will do the same, remind people how it was. In time less and less will remember or will care, it is already so, but remember the streak of good luck you had after that, all DCs were bad one way or the other. Let's see how this last one will do.



Aldryic C said:


> I demand proof of Francisco threatening to hack Prometeus.  Proof you can never provide, because as always you do nothing but tell lies.


----------



## drmike

&nbsp;



wlanboy said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> &nbsp;
> 
> 
> We will see what happens if 20% of the latest topics are about "bad BuyVM" and if the topics are on page 1 of google search results.
> 
> 
> Hey they pushed the seo of vpsboard to harm CC - but this knife can bite back.
> 
> 
> &nbsp;
> 
> 
> I am waiting for a statement like "this does have detrimental influence on business and therefore the topic was deleted".


Clarifying here...


"They" pushed SEO of vpsBoard --- who is they?


"this does have detrimental influence on business and therefore the topic was deleted" ---> who would be stating that?


----------



## vRozenSch00n

drmike said:


> my friend Smith &amp; Wesson will cure you of your ills.


I thought you are a friend of Mr. Colt & Mr. Winchester


----------



## maounique

This had never anything to do with noble goals or the righteousness of fighting anonymity. It was purely a business decision, we will spare a few bucks if we forbid high bw apps that are likely to use more than a few % of the sold traffic. 

If he kept it like meh, that Tor and anonymity thing is shady, I wouldnt want to do anything with it nothing would have happened, I wouldnt even pay attention to it, but the violence of the attacks raised my eyebrow. There was deffinitelly something strange there and it took a while, but I found it. It was for the best. BuyVM saw suddenly there was a problem with their DC (like they needed me to do the math for them), customers had better network and less powerfailures an downtime. Err... yeah something like that maybe someone remembers better. Then they have been bufalloed. Now finally found a great DC. 

I am sorry, but this is ridiculous. There are tons of better providers with better network better service better prices (sure not allin the same time but at least a few) and still BuyVM ranks high. That proves very good PR skills, good for them, but we will see in a few months how the math is going under the hood, that was never their strong point. 

And I am annoying and destroying the community, how ? By posting (supposedly) offtopic in the, er... oftopic section ? Lol ?


----------



## MannDude

Ah shit. One sec. Was trying to split everything from the old thread...


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I dunno Mao, maybe my remarks about paedophiles hit a little close to home.  Can't imagine any other reason you're taking this so personally.  Unless other folks with a dislike of BuyVM are paying you to be a nuisance again... which I could see happening.  You have no problems telling lies about folks, so you likely have no problems whoring yourself out.

Hell, you've straight up admitted to having/using fake IDs.  But in spite of all the dishonesty, we're supposed to believe that you're legit?  Hah.



Mao said:


> How the heck quoting works here ?


... you can't figure out BBCode, but you expect people to believe you know enough about networking to reveal 'some big scam'?  Suuuuure.



Mao said:


> It was a simple issue, you started attacking Tor operators and i found that odd especially the violence of the attack, so i dug up the truth which you didnt admit until then.


What truth?  That I dislike paedophiles, and the known fact that child porn exists on TOR?  Yup, stating my opinion is an 'attack' all right.



Mao said:


> But, of course, you can always ask me to leave, no need to ban me.


Again, you try to make assumptions that I can actually ban people.  But we all know that simply asking you to do anything will never work - when you first started this tirade I asked you to calm down and discuss this with us, and you went berserk over some personal slight.  But sure, let's try again.  I ask that you leave;  failing that, I ask that you stop spreading lies.  Given that you won't do either - I ask that you show actual proof.  But you can't even do that much - all you can do is tell stories.


----------



## MannDude

The two threads were split, the original thread was here: 

Figured this one needed it's own thread since that was the only discussion going on in the other one.

Mao, feel free to suggest a different thread title. I didn't know what to use.


----------



## Francisco

I never hacked nothin', you're just easy to troll into a rage. If you did get hacked then you should email all your customers and inform the local authorities.

The only reason I don't start fights with you very much in public is because I like Sal enough to not drag him into it.

If you really want to I can start that up though?

Francisco


----------



## MannDude

Also, as always, just a friendly reminder to keep things civil. Not that anyone has been uncivil thus far, just throwing it out there.


----------



## DomainBop

> Unless other folks with a dislike of BuyVM are paying you to be a nuisance again... which I could see happening.


Guilty as charged.  I put him up to it. I'm the chairman of ATDC* and our organization's aim is to keep the children safe from being exposed to towel dancing pr0n on the Interwebs.  BuyVM has been in our sights as a purveyor of towel dance pr0n since those vacation pictures of your towel dancing head honcho were posted.  You can run towel dance, but you can't hide BuyVM.

_*ATDC=Anti-Towel Dancing Coalition_


----------



## Francisco

DomainBop said:


> Guilty as charged.  I put him up to it. I'm the chairman of ATDC* and our organization's aim is to keep the children safe from being exposed to towel dancing pr0n on the Interwebs.  BuyVM has been in our sights as a purveyor of towel dance pr0n since those vacation pictures of your towel dancing head honcho were posted.  You can run towel dance, but you can't hide BuyVM.
> 
> _*ATDC=Anti-Towel Dancing Coalition_


*Fuck.*


----------



## WelltodoInformalCattle

These threads have just gotten pathetic. People need to move on and make this site a less bitter place to be in. As right as you might feel, writing essays in your replies is a turn off on LET and your association to Prometeus when you write utter crap on LET should be a source of embarrassment for 'Uncle'. 

P.S. let's please not call him 'Uncle'. Unless you all are 16 year old girls in need of a father figure.


----------



## Coastercraze

BuyVM.

You can't win against that russian Aldryic C'boas...

TBH, I'm not going to read this thread all the way, but I will say they run a mighty fine battleship.


----------



## maounique

1. I protest topic split. First, FFS, it is the off-topic section. Second, it has everything to do with the way CC and BuyVM ruled that place, so it is not standing on it's own. BuyVM has own problems and the company has nothing to do with it, only the people running it also run LET and employed the same methods of keeping it "clean".

2. It has nothing to do with Tor either. That was only the sparkle that put me on a trail to see why a company with such good reviews and supposedly good network is so strong against relays which would never pose any risk. That I told people as part of the story, otherwise would have not really been clear how I came to check their network helped by tens of people there which earned me the ban.

3. It also has absolutely nothing to do with Prometeus. BuyVM tries to involve it, even make threats against it, because they think they can silence me this way since they cant (probably) ban me again, even if the campaign already started. ALL these things happened at least 6 months before I joined prometeus and almost all even before I got a VM with them. The attempt to bring it into discussion reminds me of jarland's low tacticts. At the (probable) argument that i bring BuyVM in a situation where a private opinion was expressed, nope, that is not it at all, their policy has been to ban a certain app without any other justiffication except that it uses a lot of traffic, and this put me on a trail of discoveries inconvenient to BuyVM which then banned me as a result of sucessfully proving they do have a problem. As I said, relays are perfectly safe and they know it. They used slander to justify it also, so, yeah, BuyVM is involved in this, Prometeus is not, they were even allowing Exit nodes at tha time not to mention relays.

4. You people realize that PRIOR to my discoveries (and many other people that posted speedtests with ridiculous results that even analogue modems would have beaten) there was "no problem" with their network at EGI, right ? It was all ponies and rainbows, BuyVM quality was unmatched in the whole world, it took tens of people to begin to wonder why their speed is so low and they tried to find a lot of other justiffications before pulling the DC's fault meme. So no, Jack, they were not forthcoming with this issue, I FORCED it on them.

5. With my ban came the end of the thread where all those things transpired. The ban was supposed to last 48 hours but it took more than a month iirc until I accdentally discovered I was unbanned by firing an old vm which had let open in a browser and i found out it was logged in . It was certainly a coincidence I was banned right then at the "people"'s request. Funny how "the people" are also backing Spirit against DB today. This IS related to CC and their tactics at LET, this is a history lesson that is repeating, it has everything to do with it. Splitting topics and putting a mock title is another dirty tactic to prevent people form learning how BuyVM deals with the opposition and the truth. They are attacking CC today for the same things they did yesterday and, wait, CC didnt even ban me yet, even though Spirit foamed at the mouth Aldryic style.

Conclusion ? This is a sad attempt for a free forum, we let convenient facts to flourish, we ridicule and throw in a corner people with inconvenient facts. The topic split is dirty trick, as well as the new name under the pretense I was asked for one. I have no beef against buyvm per se, things will catch up with them anyway in a couple of months, all is in the past now, I was only pointing out the similarities between their rule and cc rule and someone asked about the history, therefore the topic split was totally unwarranted.

It is, of course, easy to be democratic when everyone praises you, the acid test comes with the presence of opposition. Both BuyVM and CC failed that test. This forums administration already got a C so far, we will see if they get any lower.


----------



## DomainBop

> Funny how "the people" are also backing Spirit against DB today.


They (which consists of the other admin thanking his posts) are wasting their time backing him.  DB made the decision to go into exile before Spirit posted.  If the words honesty or integrity ever enter the vocabularies of the owners or administrators there DB might reconsider that decision. 



> It was all ponies and rainbows


It's still all about ponies and rainbows on LET...or at least today is.  There's a thread with a pony vacation picture meme calling him a male escort, and Andrew from 123systems has a 'NOPONY' coupon code in his signature.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Well, I get on and this is what I see.

All I have to say is please keep this civil in here guys 

Also Mao, in terms of your last comment, I apologize you feel that way. I guess the reasoning behind MannDude's moderation action was due to the fact that the previous topic was originally focused on SolveDDoS while this thread focuses on this discussion at hand. It was more of a categorization than anything really, especially since (in my opinion) the thread diverged from the topic. It was mostly to keep this discussion going while continuing the original discussion in that thread. I apologize if you took it as a way for us to "low-ball" or to try and "divert attention away". Everyone on staff try hard not to interfere too much without the Community's approval and I know for a fact I rarely have to pull out the "Moderator" cape.

Also, I understand this is a pretty heated discussion but please keep it civil . Attempting to discredit each other with insults really isn't the way to go.

===== Mod talk over =====

In terms of the LET/LEB staff members, I believe it's just each individual applying their personal views into their moderation actions. Being a LET/LEB staff member I'm sure gives you a better insight on CC's operation on the LEB/LET forums (more information we are unaware of). This information probably can't be released to the public (either through personal/private reasons).

From this information (which can be highly skewed in favor for one or another side), they created their own private opinions and then see others who disagree with them as "incorrect/wrong" people. Now, I can definitely say many individuals in this community and in the other community have a need/want for those individuals to see "their" point of view. Each side demands the other side accept their own point of view as the ultimate truth. Now, this goes into debate over what "truth" really means, but sometimes different people have different criteria for proof that sometimes just can't be satisfied.

This is part of what makes human interaction and discussion so much fun! Trying to show the other individual why you believe your truth is the correct truth and why they should agree with you. This is also what makes politicians politicians. They're great at this communication (or method to manipulate this concept).

Bottom line, as a guy who's on the other side of the fence here on vpsBoard (aka on staff), I can definitely say we try to be equal and even with everything. Not trying to hide anything, not trying to screw anyone over. I say this more as an individual than a staff member, but I can guarantee you my character applies to my moderation style (although I try really hard to be as unbiased as possible). It's a possibility the staff at LEB/LET could feel the same way, and to them they feel they're doing the right thing. I can't judge them on that, but they way they could have expressed it could have been much better.

*tldr:* I'm not trying to screw anyone over. MannDude isn't trying to screw anyone over. Martin isn't trying to screw anyone over. We really try to be as reasonable as possible. If this isn't up to par then let us know where we can improve, why you think ____ shouldn't be this way, etc.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

DomainBop said:


> They (which consists of the other admin thanking his posts) are wasting their time backing him.  DB made the decision to go into exile before Spirit posted.  If the words honesty or integrity ever enter the vocabularies of the owners or administrators there DB might reconsider that decision.


Did you just.... refer to yourself in third person?

HalfEatenPie is afraid wlanboy might air some dirty laundry on Catalyst! HalfEatenPie should probably do his laundry before they get aired!


----------



## DomainBop

HalfEatenPie said:


> Did you just.... refer to yourself in third person?


My trollitis was acting up again while I was posting.


----------



## Wintereise

Wow, such 'battle.'

</...>


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

It's always someone else's fault XD  Gotta love the complete lack of integrity and responsibility with this guy.


----------



## lbft

I liked it better when Mao shat on LET instead of vpsboard...


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

lbft said:


> I liked it better when Mao shat on LET instead of vpsboard...


Agreed.  I guess he got tired of his own stench over there, and decided to come be a pest here as well.


----------



## prometeus

Francisco said:


> I never hacked nothin', you're just easy to troll into a rage. If you did get hacked then you should email all your customers and inform the local authorities.
> 
> 
> The only reason I don't start fights with you very much in public is because I like Sal enough to not drag him into it.
> 
> 
> If you really want to I can start that up though?
> 
> 
> Francisco


Fran, I too have a good opinion of you, you know. And maybe M can be easy to troll and sometime he stand his opinions with too much strength. But I saw what you write him and since it came from you and we all know your skills, it looked more than a simple troll or joke in the context of the discussion. It was so credible that M requested me to look at it and judge myself.

My feeling is that you don't ever goes this low, so I'm sure you were trolling even if it was a bit excessive IMHO ;-)

Happy new year! Hope 2014 will be succesfull for both our companies 

S.


----------



## SrsX

Well, I guess it's a new start.... Since it isn't a ColoCrossing thread.

2014, here we come - bringing A+ drama with us.


----------



## vRozenSch00n

@prometeus @Francisco respect to both of you.  

May 2014 bring success and prosperity to all of us, vpsBoard family members.


----------



## vRozenSch00n

Ooops, It's raining cats and dogs here, my ISP starts to do flip flop on and off connection dance.

Sorry for the double post.


----------



## qps

We had similar problems with EGI when we offered VPS services there.  They wanted all of the VPS providers to leave so they could launch their EdgeVM brand.


----------



## Francisco

qps said:


> We had the similar problems with EGI when we offered VPS services there.  They wanted all of the VPS providers to leave so they could launch their EdgeVM brand.


The only brand I'm aware of that's still around in EGI is lightwave and the owner of that now works for EGI.

Francisco


----------



## TheLinuxBug

Lol, when I read the title of this thread my first thought was: "It would be really cool to see Mao and a member of BuyVM in a Rap battle."  I think you guys should have to rap battle like in 8 mile.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BqcZFtvAQI

Cheers!


----------



## drmike

Thank @Manndude for the whimsical title.  He is always getting rap-centric with it.

Happy new year to everyone.   Time for more post variety


----------



## scv

Francisco said:


> The only brand I'm aware of that's still around in EGI is lightwave and the owner of that now works for EGI.
> 
> 
> Francisco


JPEGS!​


(image links to site. Yes, this is what it looks like. No, I didn't encode it.)


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Ahahaha, I remember them now.  I always thought it was a joke site.


----------



## mikho

It's not really a battle with only one contender.


More like shadow boxing.


----------



## prometeus

Francisco said:


> I never hacked nothin', you're just easy to troll into a rage. If you did get hacked then you should email all your customers and inform the local authorities.
> 
> 
> The only reason I don't start fights with you very much in public is because I like Sal enough to not drag him into it.
> 
> 
> If you really want to I can start that up though?
> 
> 
> Francisco


I see you had the time to comment and reply to several topics including one in this thread, but skipped to ack/reply to me (at least as a matter of courtesy). 

This is not good at all, you say you like me, but threatens to hack *MY* solus to punish M (troll or truth doesn't matter) . You say you like me, find the time to talk to every avatar and his cat in this forum but ignore me. 

I really feel bad. Good night.


----------



## Francisco

prometeus said:


> I see you had the time to comment and reply to several topics including one in this thread, but skipped to ack/reply to me (at least as a matter of courtesy).
> 
> This is not good at all, you say you like me, but threatens to hack *MY* solus to punish M (troll or truth doesn't matter) . You say you like me, find the time to talk to every avatar and his cat in this forum but ignore me.
> 
> I really feel bad. Good night.


And yet, you let him storm around just because in his signature it says "these views are mine". At least when Aldryic steps out of line I'll tell him to cool it. The only reason you've now shown up is because it's doing as I said it would, cast a bad light on you two.

I'll reply to you when I'm good and ready. It's taken you 1 1/2 years to finally comment on Mao's little games, you can wait an afternoon while I take care of my customers.

Francisco


----------



## prometeus

Francisco said:


> And yet, you let him storm around just because in his signature it says "these views are mine". At least when Aldryic steps out of line I'll tell him to cool it. The only reason you've now shown up is because it's doing as I said it would, cast a bad light on you two.
> 
> 
> I'll reply to you when I'm good and ready. It's taken you 1 1/2 years to finally comment on Mao's little games, you can wait an afternoon while I take care of my customers.
> 
> 
> Francisco


As I said in other occasions, he was this way when I knew him, I'm not going to change him.

I wrote to you because of your words, you threatened my solus, so me in the end, and since I think it was not good from you I gave you a hand. You refused it? Have other stuff to do? No problem, I don't need your affect nor your precious time. 

I have to take care of my family. Good night.


----------



## Francisco

prometeus said:


> As I said in other occasions, he was this way when I knew him, I'm not going to change him.
> 
> I wrote to you because of your words, you threatened my solus, so me in the end, and since I think it was not good from you I gave you a hand. You refused it? Have other stuff to do? No problem, I don't need your affect nor your precious time.
> 
> I have to take care of my family. Good night.


What "hand"? You'd be so lucky to have me watching out for your business. Every time a solus exploit has come out, or something is a miss and I spot it? I'm contacting every host I got on my skype to either shut down their solus or their WHMCS.

Francisco


----------



## Amitz

Fran, brace yourself! You look worse than Chris Fapozzi at the moment!


----------



## prometeus

Francisco said:


> What "hand"? You'd be so lucky to have me watching out for your business. Every time a solus exploit has come out, or something is a miss and I spot it? I'm contacting every host I got on my skype to either shut down their solus or their WHMCS.
> 
> 
> Francisco


Never had a notify from you, not sure what you're talking about. Anyway as a member of the unfortunate category of solusvm/whmcs clients I thank you for your efforts.


----------



## Francisco

Amitz said:


> Fran, brace yourself! You look worse than Chris Fapozzi at the moment!


How so? Mao's been at us and or Aldryic for 1 1/2 years and we haven't even taken part in LE in a year now.

Prometeus gets flack and suddenly they come out of the shed like it's a sly.

I do right by many many people and spend *countless* hours supporting many brands. I get paid exactly $0 for my time

or skills. I have every right to get pissed off when they start biting the hand that damn well near literally feeds them.



prometeus said:


> Never had a notify from you, not sure what you're talking about. Anyway as a member of the unfortunate category of solusvm/whmcs clients I thank you for your efforts.


Because I don't have either of you on skype. The only times we talked were on WHT some, never on LE.

Francisco


----------



## Amitz

I have absolutely NO doubt that you are a nice and helpful guy, Fran. But take a look at your tone. As if Maounique would be the only "pain in the ass" in this constellation. Aldryic can be painful for bystanders from time to time as well. I see absolutely no reason to be so dickish and unfriendly to Salvatore. I really liked you from past postings, Fran, but your last 2 ones make you look childish. I take back the Fapozzi analogy. though. That was too hard and insulting.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

@Amitz - Fran's tone is very understandable.  One of Sal's workers dragged Prometeus into whatever issues he has, and now the both of them are very intentionally misquoting something Fran said (knowing very well Francisco would never try to exploit someone). 

If we wanted to dick around with wording, I could pretty easily dig up some old Mao quotes about anti-fraud, and his use of fake IDs and such.  How safe would you feel as a Prometeus client, knowing that such a person had access to your personal data?

But we won't go that route.  The hope was that Sal would realize the bad press his lackey is trying to drag them into, and talk some sense into the kid.  But now he wants to put on gloves, too?  That's just trying to cause more trouble instead of putting a stop to things.


----------



## prometeus

Francisco said:


> How so? Mao's been at us and or Aldryic for 1 1/2 years and we haven't even taken part in LE in a year now.
> 
> 
> Prometeus gets flack and suddenly they come out of the shed like it's a sly.
> 
> 
> I do right by many many people and spend *countless* hours supporting many brands. I get paid exactly $0 for my time
> 
> 
> or skills. I have every right to get pissed off when they start biting the hand that damn well near literally feeds them.
> 
> 
> Because I don't have either of you on skype. The only times we talked were on WHT some, never on LE.
> 
> 
> Francisco


You're evading it. I wrote to you for a reason, I appreciate your work and I'm sure most people do, but I was talking about some concerns (that you can find funny) related to some hacking of (again) MY solusvm. 

You didn't replay, all you're saying is how great you are at helping for free. Ok you are great. But still to shut up M you threatened him to punish me and I didn't appreciate it.


----------



## WelltodoInformalCattle

Screenshot and post Fran's threat if it exists. If no one posts any proof to back up their accusations (proof of Mao using multiple identities) then it is better if everyone just stays quiet because this conversation is going nowhere.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

prometeus said:


> You're evading it. I wrote to you for a reason, I appreciate your work and I'm sure most people do, but I was talking about some concerns (that you can find funny) related to some hacking of (again) MY solusvm.
> 
> You didn't replay, all you're saying is how great you are at helping for free. Ok you are great. But still to shut up M you threatened him to punish me and I didn't appreciate it.


 Fran has no need to "shut up M".  Truthfully, neither do I - your boy does a fantastic job of making himself look like an ass without any assistance.  Even Fabozzi puts up more of a challenge than this kid; and if you want to see why Prometeus has been drug into this, check the first few posts where he drops your name himself.  You're the one deciding to suddenly back Mao and his lies, and try to justify his behaviour.  Sure, "you won't change him" - but you allow him to represent your company like this?



WelltodoInformalCattle said:


> Screenshot and post Fran's threat if it exists. If no one posts any proof to back up their accusations (proof of Mao using multiple identities) then it is better if everyone just stays quiet because this conversation is going nowhere.


 The 'threat' is a trolling comment Fran made in passing during a PM to Mao when the latter wouldn't stop running his mouth.  Only someone that's never actually spoken with Fran, or isn't trying to twist words in a libel campaign, would see it as an actual threat.

Besides, I've already told Mao to post the PM.  He refuses to.


----------



## prometeus

Aldryic C said:


> If we wanted to dick around with wording, I could pretty easily dig up some old Mao quotes about anti-fraud, and his use of fake IDs and such.  How safe would you feel as a Prometeus client, knowing that such a person had access to your personal data?
> 
> But we won't go that route.


Well, since you wrote it (and you're good at it) you just did it 

I'll put my life in the hand of M everyday, He run most of the show since my mother died last year. So I suppose he's doing a great job.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

prometeus said:


> Well, since you wrote it (and you're good at it) you just did it
> 
> I'll put my life in the hand of M everyday, He run most of the show since my mother died last year. So I suppose he's doing a great job.


So you fully endorse his campaign of libel and lies against another company, then?  You fully back everything he has said?


----------



## prometeus

Aldryic C said:


> Fran has no need to "shut up M".  Truthfully, neither do I - your boy does a fantastic job of making himself look like an ass without any assistance.  Even Fabozzi puts up more of a challenge than this kid; and if you want to see why Prometeus has been drug into this, check the first few posts where he drops your name himself.  You're the one deciding to suddenly back Mao and his lies, and try to justify his behaviour.  Sure, "you won't change him" - but you allow him to represent your company like this?
> 
> The 'threat' is a trolling comment Fran made in passing during a PM to Mao when the latter wouldn't stop running his mouth.  Only someone that's never actually spoken with Fran, or isn't trying to twist words in a libel campaign, would see it as an actual threat.
> 
> Besides, I've already told Mao to post the PM.  He refuses to.


Youre joking as usual, read my post to Fran, I read the pm, fount them excessive, din't like the comment of Fran so politely (with my usual Engrish) given the occasion to close the question with an ack. 

(I did read the PM)

 





Aldryic C said:


> So you fully endorse his campaign of libel and lies against another company, then?  You fully back everything he has said?



Don't play with words. He his like he his and I accept him this way. For example I don't like your head of horse, but you're as you are and I accept you this way. I don't need to agree on everything with you to accept you, it's called diversity.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Could care less if you agree or disagree with me.  Folks are entitled to their own opinions.  What I'm asking you directly, is if you support/endorse the actions Mao is taking here.  (For the record - another attempted dodge will simply be considered a 'yes').


----------



## prometeus

Aldryic C said:


> Could care less if you agree or disagree with me.  Folks are entitled to their own opinions.  What I'm asking you directly, is if you support/endorse the actions Mao is taking here.  (For the record - another attempted dodge will simply be considered a 'yes').


Soooo you're asking for an opinion... I didn't dig in most of your threads.... Anyway I'm a friend of him, and as a friend  I'm with him "no question asked". Hope you can understand this as I suppose you have the same attitude with Fran.


----------



## Francisco

Amitz said:


> I have absolutely NO doubt that you are a nice and helpful guy, Fran. But take a look at your tone. As if Maounique would be the only "pain in the ass" in this constellation. Aldryic can be painful for bystanders from time to time as well. I see absolutely no reason to be so dickish and unfriendly to Salvatore. I really liked you from past postings, Fran, but your last 2 ones make you look childish. I take back the Fapozzi analogy. though. That was too hard and insulting.


I apologize if anything comes off as that, It just gets tiresome. As I said, Mao's been at it for 1 1/2 years now and we've not taken part over on LE for about a year now. I hit it up if we're brought up but since half the comments are Mao trying to stir the pot I leave it be. He goes on about how we're scamming users on bandwidth or things like that, and yet we just recently upgraded our two biggest plans to include 2x - 3x more transit.

We have countless users that burn their whole allocations (we got 1 guy that burns probably 200mbit/sec alone) and he continues it. Yes, we had problems at EGI. Yes, he pointed it out but things went from fantastic to "what the shit" with them in a matter of < 1 week because they moved some fatty customers into 1090.

You've now had another hosting company that had the exact same issues as us post and yet he still continues.

EDIT - QPS is more dedi's than VM's now, fixed their designation.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

prometeus said:


> Soooo you're asking for an opinion... I didn't dig in most of your threads.... Anyway I'm a friend of him, and as a friend  I'm with him "no question asked". Hope you can understand this as I suppose you have the same attitude with Fran.


I understand quite well - and since you decided to avoid my question again, I'll take that to mean you and your company fully endorse your employee's campaign of lies and libel against us.  Your "poor English" act doesn't work quite so well on other ESLs.

So let me make myself perfectly clear - Mao is barely worth notice.  Collar your dog, and I'm content with forgetting his existence again.  But you or he decide to continue this little charade;  be fully aware we'll consider it an attack from your company.  No, I don't have the same attitude as Francisco.  He's the nice guy.  I'm the one that won't show you mercy.


----------



## Corporal Clegg

Aldryic C said:


> The 'threat' is a trolling comment Fran made in passing during a PM to Mao when the latter wouldn't stop running his mouth.  Only someone that's never actually spoken with Fran, or isn't trying to twist words in a libel campaign, would see it as an actual threat.


So quite a few could see it as a real threat in other words?

And for dodging, isn't that what Fran does/did in regards to this threat message?

BuyVM has always come across as an eliteist-wannabe company to me.

I'm sure you have a smart comment in return, but you really should stop. It makes you look really bad.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Corporal Clegg said:


> So quite a few could see it as a real threat in other words?
> 
> And for dodging, isn't that what Fran does/did in regards to this threat message?


Possibly.  Hence why said trolling was done in private for a select audience.  The biggest mistake was the attempt to relate to the guy at all and try to smooth things out.

Not sure if I see it on the dodging.  To be fair, we have asked Mao several times to screenshot the PM for everyone's clarification - that seems more the opposite of dodging to me   But objectively.. just how friendly can you be with someone that's apparently made a life goal of spreading lies about you?


----------



## Francisco

Corporal Clegg said:


> So quite a few could see it as a real threat in other words?
> 
> And for dodging, isn't that what Fran does/did in regards to this threat message?
> 
> BuyVM has always come across as an eliteist-wannabe company to me.
> 
> I'm sure you have a smart comment in return, but you really should stop. It makes you look really bad.


I've not dodged anything. He claims I hacked him which is incorrect. The PM was him claiming that prometeus doesn't have a single fault in anything it does and I said "I'll provision a vm on each node and I'll find things to complain about since that's what you do to us".

Remember, Mao hasn't been a customer of ours in almost 2 years now. If he has service with us he's using another fake identity to do so. But, we keep an eye for anyone running TOR on our network to make sure it isn't an exit node.

I was fully aware that Mao would run off to Sal with it, that was my intent. Sal lets Mao run around and do this to lots of people, not just us, but say anything his way and he's booking time away from the family to write posts.

I'm not sure where we come off as elitists either. If we weren't skilled in what we do we wouldn't get daily PM's from people asking for an extra pair of eyes.

Francisco


----------



## qps

Francisco said:


> EDIT - QPS is more dedi's than VM's now, fixed their designation.


We've always been a dedicated server company since day 1.  VPS came later.

Most of our ads lately have been related to dedicated servers, but we also still do VPS.  Nothing has changed there.


----------



## Francisco

qps said:


> We've always been a dedicated server company since day 1.  VPS came later.
> 
> Most of our ads lately have been related to dedicated servers, but we also still do VPS.  Nothing has changed there.


That's why I fixed my write up  I wrote 'vps provider' which, while true, you're more known for dedi's.

Francisco


----------



## qps

We were ready to expand at EGI before they started playing games with their network.

We manually migrated all of our customers out EGI to new hardware in Las Vegas, and the network performance while we were doing that was very poor most of the time, even though it ran over HE's network the whole way.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

qps said:


> We were ready to expand at EGI before they started playing games with their network.
> 
> We manually migrated all of our customers out EGI to new hardware in Las Vegas, and the network performance while we were doing that was very poor most of the time, even though it ran over HE's network the whole way.


Yikes man, that must've been brutal.  We actually completely stopped offering any migrations/etc from EGI because more often than not, the route would fail halfway through.


----------



## GIANT_CRAB

guys, pls stop makin long posts, nobody will read them.


----------



## Dylan

I have services with both BuyVM and Prometeus, and I thought both were pretty trustworthy. But after this thread I'm not so sure about the former.

Mao's... opinionated, to say the least, but expressing an opinion, whether right, wrong, or just distasteful, is entirely different than making (thinly veiled) threats. When Aldryric says something like "we'll consider it an attack from your company"... that genuinely makes me worry about reprisal against my BuyVM services if I dare say something bad about them.

Francisco, as a longtime lurker I can say that you usually come across as a pretty nice guy. This is really below you. You and Aldryric are doing way more damage to your reputation by responding like that than Mao ever could.


----------



## qps

Aldryic C said:


> Yikes man, that must've been brutal.  We actually completely stopped offering any migrations/etc from EGI because more often than not, the route would fail halfway through.


I think you got the full "get the f--- out of here" network performance, while at times, we got the "please, there's the door" network performance.  Mostly it was terrible.


----------



## Corporal Clegg

Francisco said:


> I've not dodged anything. He claims I hacked him which is incorrect.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure where we come off as elitists either. If we weren't skilled in what we do we wouldn't get daily PM's from people asking for an extra pair of eyes.


Ok, I was under the impression that you threatened (trolled) to hack prometeus' setup, which is quite serious in this context imo, trolling or not.

I'm sure your services and skills are top, and way above most of the other Providers here, but thats just the impression i have gotten after reading/lurking forums for some time.

Not aimed at anyone in this thread, but personally I don't buy services from companies if they act like keyboard warriors or children on internet forums, even how good and/or cheap they are.

Anyway, enough ramble. Happy new year.to all.


----------



## Francisco

Dylan said:


> I have services with both BuyVM and Prometeus, and I thought both were pretty trustworthy. But after this thread I'm not so sure about the former.
> 
> Mao's... opinionated, to say the least, but expressing an opinion, whether right, wrong, or just distasteful, is entirely different than making (thinly veiled) threats. When Aldryric says something like "we'll consider it an attack from your company"... that genuinely makes me worry about reprisal against my BuyVM services if I dare say something bad about them.
> 
> Francisco, as a longtime lurker I can say that you usually come across as a pretty nice guy. This is really below you. You and Aldryric are doing way more damage to your reputation by responding like that than Mao ever could.


Lots of people go after Aldryic, even disagreeing clients. Hell, DcLardy and him haven't seen eye-to-eye in ages yet last I chatted to him he still had a half dozen kicking around. Everyone's open to their opinion but if you go on a 1 1/2 year baseless fight against us then you're going to wake the beast. We're always very big supporters of free speech and people having their own opinions.

You need to see it from my point. He's been at me for 1 1/2 years yet I snap once and suddenly I'm the bad guy? Give some slack.

Yes, I've come off as a complete ass hat but christ Mao's had it coming.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Dylan said:


> When Aldryric says something like "we'll consider it an attack from your company"... that genuinely makes me worry about reprisal against my BuyVM services if I dare say something bad about them.


I encourage this, actually.  Granted, I encourage it more when legitimate problems are brought to our attention directly, rather than us hearing about it second-hand on a forum   But seriously, anything negative you have, bring it to our attention.  That's just more we can improve upon.

To clarify my earlier statement - I was making it very clear to Salvatore that his and Mao's actions are going to be considered attacks from Prometeus, since he's apparently fully behind everything Mao says.  If either of them had legitimate service with us?  Aye, they would be asked to leave.  Either at the end of their current cycle, or offered a prorated refund.  But that's not the case - my clarification was to make it clear to him that he was involving his company directly in his subordinate's actions.



Dylan said:


> Francisco, as a longtime lurker I can say that you usually come across as a pretty nice guy. This is really below you. You and Aldryric are doing way more damage to your reputation by responding like that than Mao ever could.


It's a bit of a catch22.  The choices are either to speak up and deny the claims, or simply let them spread their lies.  Obviously the latter is out of the question.  And while we've tried several times to deal with Mao reasonably (and even privately to save his embarrassment), he simply refuses to do anything but continue his tirade of lies.  The only real choice left is to systematically tear down his claims and leave him discredited enough that once enough people see just how dishonest and obnoxious he is, we wouldn't have to intervene directly any further.

By all means, if you have an alternate suggestion I'm all ears.  But the most efficient method in my experience is simply to let him make an ass of himself until it gets bad enough that he earns himself a ban.  Doubtless he'll then try to claim that I banned him directly.. but what can you do


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

qps said:


> I think you got the full "get the f--- out of here" network performance, while at times, we got the "please, there's the door" network performance.  Mostly it was terrible.


heheh, yeeeeeeeah.  The management and I weren't exactly on good terms by that point - Fran was a lot nicer about calling out their BS when they tried to blame our setup for the horrible performance.  One guy's face when I showed up for the move and he realized who I was... absolutely priceless.


----------



## bizzard

Well, since I have read all posts in this thread, I need to see a screenshot of the PM mentioned here, before I reach a conclusion.

Show some proof guys. Beating around the bush just makes threads longer.

@Francisco Since @Mao is not around, can you post it here?


----------



## tchen

TL;DR seems to be that everyone's been telling the truth at least according to their experiences - its the editorializing that's getting out of hand.  Sure, Mao's been a dick to Fran.  Aldryic's being a dick to Sal, Fran can't back down since he's called out by name.  Sal's playing the supportive friend card.  Both sides are puffing up like some birds in mating season heat.

I love both your companies but this is getting silly and is just putting BOTH of your companies into negative light.  At this point, I don't think any other readers really cares who started goading who first.  This isn't grade school.


----------



## clarity

@Francisco,


You are right. I do have a few services with you.


As we all know, Aldryic is who he is. If he was the head of BuyVM, I would have already taken all my stuff out. While he has never done anything to customers (that I know of), his posts on forums are for the most part past the point of being arrogant.


Whether or not he is a nice guy, I have no idea. His attitude as of late seems to have gotten worse on here. Whether or not you or him realize it, he is a big part of the BuyVM image, and it might be beneficial for him to just be a nicer guy to everyone. The old Teddy Roosevelt saying comes to mind,


"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far ..."


He is just wielding the big stick all the time lately. Other than that, I have no problem with anyone here. This is place to discuss and help each other. We don't need to be dicks!


----------



## maounique

This is an old isue, I only mentioned it in the historical context. 

It started from CC's doings and the attack of Spirit against DomainBop. He said "the people" are behind him when he said DomainBop was annoying (really ? poor guy has been a source of excellent historical data, I dont think that anyone except the cc guys finds him annoying, and CC only because the truth is not convenient). This is similar with what BuyVM did when they ruled there.

The difference is that, while I suspect that a few accounts were fake, those that set the tone, the majority of the people were indeed backing them. It took some time before the truth got out, and I only proved they are lying when they said everything is fine with their network, the problems only appeared when I convinced people to post speedtests, right....

After 2 months of dogging them, finally there were tens of people testifying about the horrible network there and they had to ban me for damage control, because they had now to tell with a straight face it is the DCs fault, a claim they were ridiculing each and every other provider, claiming incompetence instead, another double standard, buyvm style. Since then, how many DC's faults were there ? Aldryic never forgave me for that, but the feeling is mutual, I never forgave him for the banning either. Insults, name calling (I never did that, he was him all the time breaking the rules, yet he banned me...) that i can take, to a point, but dont mess with the freespeech. When "the people" are backing someone to handle out bans to the "annoying" people, a claim which wasnt even backed up later when the topic about my ban had to be sunk with lies  (the ban was for 48 hours only, I was banned for supporting DDoS attacks against LET even though nobody could bring any proof and the only real acusation was that i was being aannoying, but annoying to whom ?).  Even today their network sucks, compared with many other providers they are attacking, even CVPS.

That is  the historic data, lets come back to Fran's more recent endeavours. Frankly, before last 2 weeks i had better impressions on him, I was only wondering why is he letting Aldryic damage his brand so badly, but that was his business, however, since he now tries to silence me by threatening prometeus, then everything changes. First, I proved their network sucks before I even had a prometeus VM, it was only in the last 2 weeks before the ban that i had one (signed up 17th march with prometeus, got banned 2nd of april and joined in october or so). Their attempt to silence me for the historical events then should have nothing to do with prometeus. But, here we are. This was, of course, only a joke...

I am unfortunately away from home and refrained so far from posting privaate pms, but I will try nevertheless because Fran is lying regarding the content and Aldryic asked for them, while Francisco didn say not to post them. As such, I think I am free to post it. Now, lets see how I manage, I will do another post with the pics.

No need for another thread, I posted all in one place : www.servoni.eu/fran Judge yourselves if those are threats or trolling.

We all know Fran has been using Solus for stallion 1 and they withdrew their license, the localhost.re guy appeared exactly when they were launching stallion 2 and their campaign against hosts using solus is well known. I have no doubt francisco knows the vulnerabilities left, so the threat looks very real to me., but otthers might think they were right to do it, so, the images are there as they asked.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Still hilarious.  The kid decides to step into the ring, then starts crying when he takes a hit.  Best of all.. he blames everyone but himself for stepping up in the first place.

You keep claiming proof, but you never dish up.  Nothing but a liar, all you could ever be.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

The first line of the bottom reply in http://www.servoni.eu/fran/fran4.png;

"I must admit [that] you lost me".  This has been true from day one, where you refuse to actually listen to logic and make up stories to suit your wild fantasies.  Instead of embarrassing yourself further, why not actually educate yourself instead of having to make up stories to explain what you cannot understand.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Alright.

We all love both of you guys, and it seems the stress is wearing everyone down.

What's been said is said and I understand Fran's frustration with this (1.5 years of having someone berate you is difficult). Hell I've snapped at something less (although this individual I was living with and had to see him everyday and was just an overall annoyance). But I also understand Sal's point as well (I'd do the same for Jarland, granted Mao might not appreciate that one). If Mao believes this is the truth then well, I guess a discussion is in order to see why he believes said point to be the truth, but if he doesn't agree then he doesn't agree.

In the end though, this is a private matter that should probably be taken care of between the four of you guys in a private Skype conversation, I'd say this isn't something that should be aired in public. Mostly to save face and to prevent suggestive natures of each comment.

My opinions on both companies have not and will not change because of this. You know why? Because I see this more as a personal conflict than a professional conflict. We're all human and we're all bound to have personal conflicts here and there (even though I'm sure we all try to minimize this). We can't be "professional 24/7" because sooner or later you do need to de-stress and let loose for a bit. Sure a company can be professional 24/7 but it's much harder for a single individual.

Relax, think about it, and make the best decisions after you've thought about the best course of action.

Happy New Years fellers!


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> The first line of the bottom reply in http://www.servoni.eu/fran/fran4.png;
> 
> "I must admit [that] you lost me".  This has been true from day one, where you refuse to actually listen to logic and make up stories to suit your wild fantasies.  Instead of embarrassing yourself further, why not actually educate yourself instead of having to make up stories to explain what you cannot understand.


You're in damage control again, I see HEP is stepping in again because this doesnt go well for you now, but who's fault is that ? We will see if things taken out of context will continue to work now. You had a great thing there, too bad you decided to attack a whole group of people to cover for the problems with your network. It was the one mistake that started this whole thing and the fact that you could never stop bullying people made it worse. The situation today is much different thant 18 months ago, you can no longer ban, so you will do hacking in revenge against a third party to silence me. That is the new low of buyVM, how much lower can you go ? I guess that remains to be seen.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

HalfEatenPie said:


> In the end though, this is a private matter that should probably be taken care of between the four of you guys in a private Skype conversation, I'd say this isn't something that should be aired in public. Mostly to save face and to prevent suggestive natures of each comment.


As much as I agree there, sadly I don't see it happening.  We tried that route before... and when we refused to meet his demands and admit that the lies told about us "were true", the nonsense went right back public again.

Now, if you were to issue a "cut this shit out, or else", I'm more than happy to just walk away and let him hang himself.  But understandably we can't just let someone sit there and spew libel uncontested.


----------



## Shados

Wait... which bit is the 'threat'?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Shados said:


> Wait... which bit is the 'threat'?


Mao and Salvatore claim that Francisco threatened to 'hack their Solus'.


----------



## lbft

I'm a customer of both BuyVM and Prometeus.

The way Mao has been carrying on like a petulant child in public for a *long* time, Sal's implicit support and a ticket where I was not satisfied with Mao's/"John's" ability to competently do his job, has destroyed the confidence I had in Prometeus and led to me gradually cancel a number of services as they come up for renewal.

I don't normally consider forum posts when making decisions about which services to buy - I've raged at my screen many times over things people like Aldryic and (when he was working at Catalyst) jarland have said but they never left me feeling like I couldn't trust them with my data. But Mao's posts are so rambling and incoherent and aggressive that I sometimes am concerned for his mental health. When there are so many critically important issues out there - privacy, security, the right to be anonymous or pseudonymous, the right to be forgotten - where I think Mao and I would probably mostly agree, he instead resorts to relentless dickwaving and thread derailing on the Internet at someone who doesn't even seem to want to argue with him.

And the worst thing? Mao was exactly the same before Sal was dopey enough to hire him - he knew exactly what he was getting himself into.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Not as a Moderator Talk:



Mao said:


> I see HEP is stepping in again because this doesnt go well for you now, but who's fault is that ?


Ehh, that was more as a member of the community than a staff member talking . I guess I should have stated that before, or better yet just have the ability to turn on/off the moderator label whenever I'm saying something.

This isn't really a game of tug-o-war but more like "let's pee where we eat" and I really do think it's just stress (sometimes holiday times are stressful, especially for people in this industry because of the winter hosts and the entire fact that some of us have to be on-call even on the holidays). I don't know if I'm reading your comments right but besides for having a service with BuyVM and enjoying their company (I consider them good friends  )I really do not have any other affiliation with them. Of course I can say the same with you and Prometeus. I like you and Uncle (granted I don't think we've had extended discussions) and would be willing to help out if/whenever needed.

To address the hacking comment, unless both parties were on the same page I probably wouldn't have made a joke like that. Now granted I do joke with several individuals on IRC and poke fun at them (sometimes elude to said actions) but it's my understanding that we were on the same page with making those comments to each other, playful banter (although I doubt playful banter applies to this conversation).

I'm not trying to be one sided or anything really, but I really do believe the ability to solve this issue is to have a private discussion with the involved parties. Heck if you don't trust it then have a third party mediator get involved (who has no ties/not a client to either services) and maintain a guideline that was created/established and approved by both parties. I'm just trying to help solve this issue. I apologize if this isn't my place to talk about it (it's a private conflict), but it's just my two cents.



Aldryic C said:


> As much as I agree there, sadly I don't see it happening.  We tried that route before... and when we refused to meet his demands and admit that the lies told about us "were true", the nonsense went right back public again.
> 
> Now, if you were to issue a "cut this shit out, or else", I'm more than happy to just walk away and let him hang himself.  But understandably we can't just let someone sit there and spew libel uncontested.


Ehh, it's not a "cut this shit out" really because everyone's free to express their opinion and what they want to say (unless it's something like "I'm going to kill ___"), but from knowing Mao (or I think I do) through the character in his writing he's a minimalist with a strong sense of equality and a strong belief in following the guidelines (or rules?). Grated this can be incredibly time consuming, I really do believe establishing a set of guidelines and definitions first (what is deemed acceptable "proof", what is a "low blow", etc.) would help with solving this issue.

Now, I can't guarantee what I say is correct. Hell I'm skeptical of my own work frequently (I just can't trust myself sometimes), but I believe this is what'll at least ease the situation and help each side understand each other. It's just the lack of trust from each side that's causing an issue.


----------



## vRozenSch00n

I got a feeling that something is lost in translation.



prometeus said:


> As I said in other occasions, he was this way when I knew him, I'm not going to change him.
> 
> I wrote to you because of your words, you threatened my solus, so me in the end, and since I think it was not good from you I gave you a hand. You refused it? Have other stuff to do? No problem, I don't need your affect nor your precious time.
> 
> I have to take care of my family. Good night.


From what I see above, when @prometeus said "I gave you a hand", he means to offer a peaceful solution. 

However, @Francisco miss understood it as "I gave you a hand = I helped you"



Francisco said:


> What "hand"? You'd be so lucky to have me watching out for your business. Every time a solus exploit has come out, or something is a miss and I spot it? I'm contacting every host I got on my skype to either shut down their solus or their WHMCS.
> 
> Francisco


I f I may suggest, please @prometeus, @Francisco, @Aldryic C'boas, and @Mao cool yourself down, the four of you sit together and resolve the problem in private.

Truly, I like you all as my providers and friends.


----------



## maounique

This has nothing to do with prometeus, as i said, this is from Before I even had a prometeus VM, not to mention working for him. 

It started when BuyVM tried to justify the banning of an app which posed 0 risks (relay nodes) or surcharging it later because there was a moral problem with alloing child rapists to use their services. If they had that concern should have closed shop, cp is all over the net. As a Tor nodes operator I took offense in being called that and was also struck by the violence of this uncalled attack and had a hunch there must be something else behind these attacks. 

It started this way but could have been stopped there if Aldryic stopped the attacks, but he intensiffied them the closest I got to the truth, with banning me at the end. 

Of course, I am not happy with this, being the constant punch bag of aldryic which breaks written and unwritten rules of forums and this is very frustrating when everyone approves that behaviour because it is for a good cause and he i one of  the good guys, our guys against the big bad mao out there. Even Prometeus becomes bad because hires such a monster. 

Sure, even hacking threats are ok, because, again, it is for a good cause. 

How BuyVM managed to keep all those skeletons in the closet for so long without being called for it, is simple, declare everyone a personal enemy and try to prove they are biased. It is also possible that other  providers were threatened with hacks and they decided to stay away of the wasp nest, lacking the balls to call it as it is. We all know Francico has deep solus knowledge from the illegal manipulation of the code (for one, decoding it is illegal, not to mention reusing parts of it in their products, but who cares about that solus are the bad guys, BuyVM the good guys). 

Then it is the case of them running OVZ inside KVM, the problems with all the DCs so far (except the last one, of course, those are much better than everything else, DCs must be crazy to do business with them anymore, but that is their loss), the lies (until I managed to PROVE their network sucks, it was the best in the world, you know), then it was the DC, even though the claims were easily proven false using basic math. BuyVM can do no wrong, Mao is the bad one here, CC, EGI, LET, even Salvatore now and everyone touched by them. We have only San Francisco and San Aldryic, part of the evangelical church of BuyVM. Their PR is good, no doubt about it, they still have some followers ready to take the worse deal because it comes from then and drop the good one because they dont like Mao, but that following is shrinking every day, the BuyVM quality does not resist scrutiny, the only way they can keep the illusion is by bullying people to shut up so nobody actually checks it or compare with similar, cheaper and better offers. 

I dare evryone to do some speed tests, compare BuyVM with the really bad CVPS, for example, we will see who stands better, the dears of these forums or the bad competition.


----------



## telephone

Am I missing something?

"No problem. I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a bit."    *=*   "I'm going to hack you"  ???

^ Yes in the context of "e-penis" it could be a threat, but it's too ambiguous. I could read it and think "Sweet, more money in the bank".

@Mao put "I hate BuyVM" in your signature and be done with it. Your essay long replies are turning into nothing but incoherent ramblings... Even if you're right, right now you're the one who's dragging this through the mud (including this forum).

@HalfEatenPie can we move this thread to LET and let it be their problem?  

*Note: *I'm not siding with anyone, and I don't care who's right... When this starts pissing off a lurker like myself, things have gone too far!


----------



## Alto

telephone said:


> Am I missing something?
> 
> "No problem. I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a bit."    *=*   "I'm going to hack you"  ???


This. All this drama over that statement is daft.


----------



## Francisco

telephone said:


> Am I missing something?
> 
> "No problem. I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a bit."    *=*   "I'm going to hack you"  ???
> 
> ^ Yes in the context of "e-penis" it could be a threat, but it's too ambiguous. I could read it and think "Sweet, more money in the bank".
> 
> @Mao put "I hate BuyVM" in your signature and be done with it. Your essay long replies are turning into nothing but incoherent ramblings... Even if you're right, right now you're the one who's dragging this through the mud (including this forum).
> 
> @HalfEatenPie can we move this thread to LET and let it be their problem?
> 
> *Note: *I'm not siding with anyone, and I don't care who's right... When this starts pissing off a lurker like myself, things have gone too far!


Exactly my point. The whole thing started because he *somehow* found a way to drag us into the UGVPS thread on LET with us being conmen, etc. Now, as I said, the discussion was *10+* pages into it already and he started this crap up. I took it to a PM, showed him that once again, we're running a 10gig port and not a single rate limit is in place yet he still continued.

He later changed his story on how the whole 'buyvm banned me' went along too. It went from 'Francisco and Aldryic gathered around a single computer and pressed a big red button' to 'You may have talked to Joel and said Mao is a pain in the ass....but it should have been up to the community to decide on a ban!!'.

It's so tiresome.

ALMOST 2 FREAKING YEARS.

Francisco


----------



## Darwin

As telephone said, when things start to piss of lurkers (like myself) things are wrong (when your first post in a forum is in a thread like this, they are really wrong).

Mao I really enjoy your posts and usually agree with your PoV. You are a great staff of prometeus and gave me great discounts a few times.

That being said, you really need to cool down. Francisco and Aldric don't give a shit about you, you are being trolled hard and don't figure out.

You even saw a biased HEP when he clearly was neutral.

There is a great quote from American History X: "Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time. It's just not worth it."


----------



## Francisco

Darwin said:


> As telephone said, when things start to piss of lurkers (like myself) things are wrong (when your first post in a forum is in a thread like this, they are really wrong).
> 
> Mao I really enjoy your posts and usually agree with your PoV. You are a great staff of prometeus and gave me great discounts a few times.
> 
> That being said, you really need to cool down. Francisco and Aldric don't give a shit about you, you are being trolled hard and don't figure out.
> 
> You even saw a biased HEP when he clearly was neutral.
> 
> There is a great quote from American History X: "Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time. It's just not worth it."


"There is nothing better than peace of mind".

I learned that one the hard way in my younger years.

Francisco


----------



## vRozenSch00n

Francisco said:


> "There is nothing better than peace of mind".
> 
> 
> I learned that one the hard way in my younger years.
> 
> 
> Francisco


Peace of mind and healthy body, Fran.


----------



## SrsX

7 pages, wow, MannDude, when did you purchase the LET drama?


----------



## Hxxx

Fuck... their post are so long and I'm too lazy to read them. LOL 

Summary:

Is this about TOR banned in buyvm?

Mao in a rage because of that?

And BuyVM enjoying the moment?

LOL


----------



## AuroraZero

Ok guys enough is enough. I have listened to this shit for two years now. I like drama as much as the next guy, but this is a little high school now. I like both parties involved and have had services with both of you. I do not give a shit anymore what happened and where it happened. It is time for it end.

This kind of thing can destroy a community and we do not need that. I do not give two shits what went on at LE*. This is NOT LE*. I understand people hold grudges for what ever reasons but you MUST let them go or they will destroy you as a person.

Now I have no dog in this at all, nor do I endorse anyone at all. I am speaking from a community standpoint that if we can not get past this and let it go then we have a serious problem.


----------



## SrsX

From what I understand, Mao is being an angry fellow, and Fran/Aldryic are just telling him basically to drop it, it isn't the time nor the place for drama of this matter.

What I'm still shocked about is we can have a 7 page Mao VS BuyVM rage thread, but ColoCrossing, that's going to far.

I just had to say that.


----------



## AuroraZero

I agree and it should be dropped, but if there still is a problem it should become a private problem. It should not involve the entire community. Mao and Fran should set down and settle this in private like adults. If they come out friends fine, if they don't fine also. Let it end where it ends and be done with it.

The difference between this and CC is that CC is a corporate entity doing shady shit behind people's backs. Then denying it when they get caught doing it. They act like they are good guys and then do the exact opposite when the chips are down. If people allow them to keep doing this and do not keep their eyes on them they soon may well be too entrenched to do anything about. By then it will be late and we will all be screwed.

I laugh and joke and say some stupid things sometimes but the reality of the situation is if we do not protect ourselves no one is going to do it for us.


----------



## perennate

Are we really going to spend another two pages saying they should drop it and discuss in private? Seems like they did already..


----------



## AuroraZero

perennate said:


> Are we really going to spend another two pages saying they should drop it and discuss in private? Seems like they did already


No I am not I have said my peace and I am done. Doubtfull I will say much more on these boards period anymore. I will leave you all with one more piece of advice though. When you work for, or own, a company you are always in the public eye. Your actions and reactions are watched and judged. No matter whether you like it or not.


----------



## Francisco

Actually I tried many times to get him to drop it but he flat out said that he will always continue his war against us because Aldryic is a dick or something to that affect.

I'm hoping at some point he'll piss off the admins enough to get smacked/warned for it. Then again, it'll just turn into "FRAN BANNED ME!!" like LET all over again.

Francisco


----------



## MannDude

Can I get a TL;DR of this thread?

I'm only somewhat in tune with what this is all about. Preferably someone who isn't Mao or Fran give me the run down. It's grown too long (heh) for me to be able to follow.


----------



## telephone

MannDude said:


> Can I get a TL;DR of this thread?
> 
> I'm only somewhat in tune with what this is all about. Preferably someone who isn't Mao or Fran give me the run down. It's grown too long (heh) for me to be able to follow.


Here's what I understand:

*Mao:*



*BuyVM:*



*After that I have no idea...*


----------



## mikho

All I see is "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah" from all sides.


Mao brings up old stuff in threads where it didn't belong, Aldryic responds (in his special way), people gets upset, accusations gets thrown around, Fran joins in and defends Aldryic and upsets Mao even more. Onto the scene sneaks Sal, throws some words around, Fran responds and then it all repeats itself again.


Noone got hurt this time, except some emotional stress. It will probably cool off now and resurface again in another thread close by.


----------



## maounique

mikho said:


> Noone got hurt this time, except some emotional stress. It will probably cool off now and resurface again in another thread close by.


Indeed, whenever BuyVM will play saints and cry "DC fault" I will be there to remind everyone how they behaved when they were pulling the strings in LET and ridiculing everyone who had an issue with the dc. They can hope time will make everyone forget and it is working indeed, but a few people never will.

So, Aldryic should always be ready with more insults and name calling tolerated by friendly mods which will also put mock names to topics, but is unlikely he will manage to ban me again, he learned his lesson .


----------



## vRozenSch00n

Mao said:


> Indeed, whenever BuyVM will play saints and cry "DC fault" I will be there to remind everyone how they behaved when they were pulling the strings in LET and ridiculing everyone who had an issue with the dc. They can hope time will make everyone forget and it is working indeed, but a few people never will.
> 
> So, Aldryic should always be ready with more insults and name calling tolerated by friendly mods which will also put mock names to topics, but is unlikely he will manage to ban me again, he learned his lesson .


Please @Mao, throw away your grudge as it will degrade your reputation as a good person when every time you revoke old issues.

I know how it is like to be banned, in my case permanently, when you are trying to convey something you believe as a truth. 

Please @Mao, be more tactful.


----------



## maounique

That is not only about the ban, it is about the insults, the lack of minimal decency, the lies and the cover-ups, now add to that hacking threats. 

I do not need any reputation, no forum will pay me since I always tell the truth, even when inconvenient for the owners, therefore I can expect banning, not payment 

Eversince buyvm started the campaign against us, it has been escalated, they had a lot more to lose than me, though, after being proven liars they had to leave LET and many people found out about their shady dealings.

Who else would have used part of a commercial product, illegally decoding it and still pass as a good guy in a forum like LET or here ? Who else would have sworn their network is stellar until someone dares to prove it otherwise and then suddenly (after making more excuses on the way proven lies one after the other) finally threw the blame on the DC and banned the person bringing it up after many pages of insults and name calling perfectly contrary to the forum rules simply because they were annoyed by the truth ? Who tries to bring more lies here, continues with the insults, some veiled, some direct, and still manage to make the mods hide the real issues and make it look like a personal attack ? It is true they did manage to hide their lies or even transform them in truth while destroying the reputation of some people, I must agree they are very good, but still, the lies are lies, the threats are threats, the insults are insults, stealing is stealing, no matter how they try to hide these things. 

Until they do not stop this dirty campaign, there will always be at least one person calling their bluff, no matter the risks.


----------



## vRozenSch00n

@Mao I have nothing more to say.


----------



## signius

Fucking Hell get a fucking life !!!

This is exactly the sort of thing that stops people coming to forums like this as the majority of people just cannot be fucking assed with all the silly moron twat dickhead drama & bullshit bollocks !!!


----------



## maounique

So I see the fake accounts started the campaign for the ban 

Good job, make owners afraid I will scare visitors away, threaten to leave, threaten Prometeus, let's see if it will work. I am genuinely curious. It did work inthe past. For someone who has nothing to hide this is quite an effort to silence someone. I would like to see who bans me first, vpsboard or let. 

It is so easy to test for the truth, just compare speeds from a few "low quality" LEB hosts and BuyVM, this is what they couldnt hide last time, it should work again. 

Who doesnt learn from history will repeat it.


----------



## mikho

Mao said:


> put mock names to topics


To be fair, MannDude asked you for a topic but I guess you were to blinded by the light in the end of the tunnel to read that.


----------



## Alto

Mao said:


> So I see the fake accounts started the campaign for the ban


The fake account setup in May of this year in anticipation of you posting here over 6 months later? And where did he 'start the campaign for the ban'?

You do yourself no favours mate with the wild accusations.


----------



## telephone

Alto said:


> The fake account setup in May of this year in anticipation of you posting here over 6 months later? And where did he 'start the campaign for the ban'?
> 
> 
> You do yourself no favours mate with the wild accusations.


*Self-Serving Memory* -> "Self-Serving Memory is a Flashback that is blatantly altered to serve the needs of whoever is remembering it".


Now it's time for a South Park reference  

*Top frame:* the invention of the wildly popular "Fishsticks" joke. 

*Bottom frame:* Cartman's memory of the event.



Flashback & realization (video): http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/224098/how-do-you-live-with-yourself


----------



## maounique

mikho said:


> To be fair, MannDude asked you for a topic but I guess you were to blinded by the light in the end of the tunnel to read that.


Not really, he just put the name and didnt change it when I protested, he did ask for a name, probably in jest.

And, neah, the "annoying" stuff isnt working, I posted in the offtopic section, far from "every thread" in the most often seen places. I always considered that whoever is looking for the truth, will find it, their own idea to create a topic with such a title will backfire. Nobody was better at hitting BuyVM than Aldryic yet, he started the whole crusade against us and continues the cover up, name calling, swearing and attacks, to name just a few things that are OK for him, but would earn a ban for everyone else almost.

Not to mention I have seen people banned for much less than breaking software licenses agreements by decoding them and reusing parts, threatening hacks against a provider which Francisco did while still being polite in language though.


----------



## Alto

Mao said:


> Not really, he just put the name and didnt change it when I protested, he did ask for a name, probably in jest.


Did you respond, and give him a thread title you were happy with? If you didn't, you have zero cause for complaint.


----------



## maounique

I am not complaining at all, I told Francisco I expect this kind of treatment way before even posting to compare buyvm vs cc rule on let. How many other topics were split and given titles like this ?

I am here just naming the facts, what happened and what this means.

Let's reiterate:

1. Aldryic starts attacking a whole group of people out of the blue. Nobody ever asked him why he is banning Tor or to allow it. He just started calling names. When he saw many people on LET are Tor nodes operators, he slightly changed tune. In this whole time he proved he knows nothing about the subject at hand even had some exit nodes (of course with modem-like bandwidth) of which at least one had an uptime of several months even tho was forbidden and he was reinforcing the bans. I had to show him quite a few times how to detect them and where are they listed in public.

2. I am a bit stunned by such a reaction, that meant there have to be some skeletons in their closet and i remembered I dropped BuyVM years before due to slow network which for me was very important and started investigating if this is not really the problem (they are afraid it will use a lot of traffic on their poor overloaded 2 mbps line impossible to serve many thousands of VMs with at least 500 GB traffic each per month).

3. I start the investigation and each time people compare speeds showing BuyVM lagging behind even against much cheaper and lower "karma" among the people of LET providers I was saying something along the line of "Ah-ha !, So this is why BuyVM is banning relays (0 risk), because their network sucks".

4. Aldryic gets annoyed and starts proving how he has such a good connection (2 mbps) that will blast out of the water everyone else and which ensures stellar performance for his many thousands of happy customers. That, and his other admissions that in a few months they got 1800 NEW customers was enough to prove that it obviously CAN'T work, due to the laws of math and physics. He lost the argument and started his usual swearing, name calling, threats, memes and the like to silence me, but it was already too late more and more people were posting speedtests, including LET mods.

5. He couldnt ridicule everyone and slowly started to change, blamed routing, first, then some switches, then they decided it was DC's fault. All this time he continued the attacks against me, tried to bury the topic through various tactics, failing that, he had to ban me inventing ludicrous reasons.

6. It was too late, the battle was lost, LET lost it's appeal for BuyVM and Aldryic had to bow out, tail between his legs, dunno if of his own agreement or because Francisco sent him to a corner. 

It all started because of his uncalled attack and continuous escallation.

He learned nothing, he doesnt understand that threats, name calling, swearing, calls for bans and the like cannot cover up in some cases, though it does work in most.

While I do understand using those while protecting his daily bread, I do not understand the initial attacks nor the ban, he must have known that does not work, but I think that at times rage doesnt allow for reason. 

Now I learned more, while it never had anything to do with Prometeus, all of this happening before I joined, lately Francisco tried to use it against me, thinking that threatening to use his deep (and illegally obtained) Solus knowledge to hack Prometeus will be enough to make Salvatore fire me and thus silence me (flawed logic, what would I have had to lose then ?). It didnt work, obviously, and now he tries to slander Salvatore too, even though he offered his hand for peace. 

There is no limit on how low these guys will go, from what I see so far to silence someone.


----------



## Francisco

You're a hoot.

Listen, are you hacked or no? If you are then I'll be informing the Italian authorities of such. You'll need to also mass inform all of your enterprise customers.

So, I ask again. Are you or aren't you? If you aren't, you'll have to retract every statement about it. If you are, then you're going to cost Sal a pretty strong black eye.

You continue the same and everyone is tired of listening to you run on with it.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

Huh ? 

Blackmail is still a crime even if no actual harm has been done. You basically say if I do not shut up you will make me lose my job by hacking Prometeus's SolusVM because Salvatore will choose peace of mind over having me work for him (again, flawed logic as I have shown you, if you know an exploit then someone else knows it and you should disclose it to solus, not threaten people with it).

I would slow down about talking to the authorities, in US copyright infringement is pretty badly seen, you admitted breaking the law regarding Solus quite a few times, but you are the good guy, right... I almost believed it a while ago.

All these tactics will not work, you should know this already, you are digging your own grave, even if you hack it, I will still not lose my job because I have my own company that does work for Prometeus (maybe lose the main customer, IF that would be a possiblitly, but it is not, at least not because of your actions, not to mention threats only). Besides, I can survive outside the VPS world as you know very well, I only work for Prometeus for some 15 months, I am almost 39, do you think this is my first job ?

You should really abandon trying to involve Prometeus here, the company or Salvatore has nothing to do with our feud, even more, none care about you and your threats, so you will achieve nothing, will only look bad in your record, 0 chances to silence me, not even banning will do that, you know me by now, if you dont well, your loss, keep threatening, with hacking, with authorities, will achieve nothing, the only one losing from these tactics is you.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> I am not complaining at all, I told Francisco I expect this kind of treatment way before even posting to compare buyvm vs cc rule on let. How many other topics were split and given titles like this ?


This thread has gone for 8 pages. The original thread that was derailed with this was what... 4 responses?

I think this warrantied it's own discussion since it was brought up.

I don't even know half of what it's about. Everytime I glance at it has grown another page.


----------



## mikho

Mao said:


> Not really, he just put the name and didnt change it when I protested, he did ask for a name, probably in jest.


Did you or did you not suggest a name change of this thread?
If the answer to that question is longer then 2-3 letters, I consider that a failure to answer a simple question.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> Not really, he just put the name and didnt change it when I protested, he did ask for a name, probably in jest.


I think I asked if you wanted it something different. Let me know. I didn't know what to call it so I thought of something comical. But at the same time, I didn't think it'd go on this long either.


----------



## maounique

MannDude said:


> I think I asked if you wanted it something different. Let me know. I didn't know what to call it so I thought of something comical. But at the same time, I didn't think it'd go on this long either.


Well, I never thought they will go so low, the self-preservation instinct is probably drown in alcohol right now, in time it did become what the title is and while I was furious at first as I saw it as an attempt to mock me and sing in their chorus making me abandon it, now I think it is an apropriate title, even if they try to make it Prometeus vs BuyVM without any logic and basis.

However, let's change it to "the truth about Mao and BuyVM" you can see here both sides of the truth, their side about me and my side about them, as well as my side about me and their side about them, as well as many of their friends expressing opinions. Seems fair ?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Seeing any truth out of you would be a nice change of pace.  Nothing but accusations, constantly changing/conflicting stories, and no proof at all.

Oh, for the record - I'm the one that requested this nonsense be split from the original thread that you derailed.  My initial suggestion for the topic was "BuyVM Lies";  partially out of fairness of anticipating what you would call the thread, partially for my own amusement.

Out of curiosity - do you have any intent of actually contributing to the community?  Or do you just plan on wasting everyone's time with more of these fabrications?


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> Oh, for the record - I'm the one that requested this nonsense be split from the original thread


 And, since you were the OP and/or themain contributor, your wish came true because, you know, mods would have done the same for every forum member, as Chief would have banned anyone at anyone's request, BuyVM was never in control or having a decisive word on LE* or here.

I see so far that you say I should be silenced because:

1. I am annoying;

2. I am not posting proof (though I did);

3. I am not contributing anything for the praising BuyVM chorus, though I did on the loathe CC (almost the same) chorus.

None of these things are worth a ban, I was not swearing, not calling names, I was civil all the time, you broke the rules as usual, but nobody expects any measures to be taen against the good guys here, even if you broke the rules you were provoked, the one who provoked you should be silenced instead. As I said, i am genuinely interested to see if this will work again, like it did on LET. 

I simply stated that to remind Spirit and the people running LET that history is repeating itself, 18 months ago BuyVM was deciding who gets banned because the views were "annoying" to the owners, today it is CC. Instead of understanding it as a friendly remark showing you learned something, you continued the same behaviour that forced you to leave LET and didnt bring you anything good. I believe it doesnt bring you anything good now either I havent seen many people buying VPSes from you in sympathy for the way you were treated by the big bad monster Mao. But, you can continue in the same note maybe they will. 

At the end of the day, the numbers dont add up for you, it started then and it is going worse every day, we are just a few months away from the revelation.


----------



## clarity

Mao said:


> 2. I am not posting proof (though I did);


I must have missed where this was posted. Can you please re-post this so that we all can see? I think that actually showing it to everyone will take a lot of the negative comments away from you.


----------



## MannDude

I keep seeing the word 'ban'.

Who is threatening to ban who? Who has been banned? What's going on? We've not banned anyone over anything regarding what this thread is about.


----------



## maounique

DifferentOpinionsNotWanted said:


> I must have missed where this was posted.


Yes, this is what happens to TL;DR people, they can easily be tricked into supporting someone because insults and attackks are more interesting than facts. Also a lot shorter to read and you can produce with them tons of posts to burry the facts.

http://www.servoni.eu/fran/

@MannDude Exactly, I keep telling him this will probably not work the way it worked at LET, even though mods do listen to some people when they request something and pretend didnt read/know when others requested some other thing. For example, the thread title is still not changed, you probably didnt read my request this time either, right ?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> I was civil all the time


This is the only thing I'll focus on here - everything else you say is just more repetition without any proof as always, and is not worth any more of anyone's time.

I know you have trouble with English, so let's clarify this now:

*civ-il* [*siv*-_uh_ l]

_adjective (taken from here)_


adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy
marked by benevolence

I went with definitions 7 and 8, as they are applicable to your usage of the word.  Polite social intercourse is the last descriptor someone would use for any of your rants.  Yours is a petty grievance;  worse off, you can't decide where your actual issue lies.

I could expand a great deal on the above - but it's fairly plain to see that doing such would be pointless.  We've been more than transparent and patient in answering your wild accusations;  your refusal to accept any detail that does not reinforce your misguided story guarantees that nothing said would ever satisfy you.  You've done a phenominal job in this thread of ruining your own credibility.

When you're ready to discuss matters like an adult, I'll be more than happy to sit down with you and provide clarification on your misunderstandings.  Until then, not wasting everyone's time would be appreciated.



MannDude said:


> I keep seeing the word 'ban'.
> 
> Who is threatening to ban who? Who has been banned? What's going on? We've not banned anyone over anything regarding what this thread is about.


In short - back in the LET fiasco, Mao managed to get himself banned after irritating most of the moderators there and failing to provide any proof for all of his accusations.  He originally used that as an excuse to claim that I had power to ban at LET;  once that lie was debunked (*me* with power at LET? Seriously?), he changed the story to claim that BuyVM was running LET.

He brings that up now so he'll have "proof" that I was somehow pulling your strings if he happens to get himself banned again.


----------



## MannDude

Aldryic C said:


> In short - back in the LET fiasco, Mao managed to get himself banned after irritating most of the moderators there and failing to provide any proof for all of his accusations.  He originally used that as an excuse to claim that I had power to ban at LET;  once that lie was debunked (*me* with power at LET? Seriously?), he changed the story to claim that BuyVM was running LET.
> 
> 
> *He brings that up now so he'll have "proof" that I was somehow pulling your strings if he happens to get himself banned again.*


Mao, you're fine here man. I've only read maybe 50% of this thread but from I see you're simply in a disagreement with people. That's nothing ban worthy. Spam the forum with knock-off Rolex spam or something and we'll talk bans. Having an opinion, that won't get you a ban. This isn't LET. Much more lax here.

EDIT: And Aldy / Fran can't do anything to this site other than turn the VMs off if I stop paying my bill and don't sway how its ran anymore than anyone else.   Aldy was _one_ of the people who reported the previous thread because it was 4 responses on topic and 4 pages of this. I think splitting it was better than locking it. Most the moderation here is done via community member based reports. Y'all are the eyes and ears.


----------



## maounique

So, I didnt prove anything at LET, right ? Then why you started to blame your DC for the network quality for which most kiddie hosts as well as free ones would be ashamed ? Why, all of a sudden there were problems witht he routing and switches and DC overselling ? Wasnt it everything perfect just a week before when you were proving how well can 2 gbps line handle all the traffic and keep people happy ? All of a sudden exactly when I was getting people to finally call your bluff and post speeds, your DC started to play tricks on you ? Werent they the best of the best before ?

I proved nothing  I can prove the same today, your network is worse than the average, still. But that is besides the point, my point was that you threatened me the same way Spirit threatened DomainBop and I raised the same flag to him in a joke, he flew off the handle and starting calling names and swearing, but, dont worry, you are still the winner at that chapter. 

That was all, nothing more, nothing less. But you insisted to prove you havent learned anything, and Francisco managed to destroy the little credibility he had. I didnt expect this.

Ah, and, is the thread title changed ?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Still waiting on all that proof.  'till then:



Aldryic C said:


> When you're ready to discuss matters like an adult, I'll be more than happy to sit down with you and provide clarification on your misunderstandings.  Until then, not wasting everyone's time would be appreciated.


----------



## clarity

Mao said:


> Yes, this is what happens to TL;DR people, they can easily be tricked into supporting someone because insults and attackks are more interesting than facts. Also a lot shorter to read and you can produce with them tons of posts to burry the facts.
> 
> http://www.servoni.eu/fran/


Thanks for posting this. Your tone here to me is a little questionable, but I guess I can move past that. The images that you posted point to Fran making a comment that he probably shouldn't have made about hacking your SolusVM install.

Where is the other proof? The proof of ownership/control of LET and the proof that the issues in San Jose were not due to EGI? I think those are the things that people that keep requesting. So far, you have only posted proof to 1 of 3 of your claims.


----------



## blergh

self-satisfied much?


----------



## Magiobiwan

So Mao, OTHER than the following items, what do you have against BuyVM?


Banning of Tor (which BuyVM can do if they so choose, THEY'RE the ones providing services)
Aldryic 
Francisco
Anything having to do with Network (which has been fixed for a LONG TIME)
That's all I've been able to dig out of this mess for reasons you don't like BuyVM. Did I miss any?


----------



## Kenshin

Just my 2 cents:

If Aldyric/Fran has/had any magic power in LE*, LE* would never have been sold to CC.

Aldyric has almost always been dickish in public, especially when deal with accusations. I can imagine him going apeshit when BuyVM was accused of network issues in the earlier stages.

Fran investigated and went publicly to WHT for help on isolating the network issues with EGI, he wanted to prove that the issue was with EGI and not within BuyVM's network, I remember participating in the WHT thread as well. qps also mentioned they had issues with EGI's network, I highly doubt it's coincidence. As a provider and an ex-BuyVM customer, I feel BuyVM did everything they could regarding the network issue although it may have taken significant time. They investigated and couldn't resolve with EGI so they did the next best thing for their clients (move to FH).

So supposely BuyVM is saturating their bandwidth at EGI. Instead of buying another 1G bandwidth to solve the problem, they decide to move to another datacentre? In Asia maybe since bandwidth costs easily outweigh the rack costs so it might makes sense (I did this in Singapore). An extra 1G in US is what, US$1000/month? To avoid that US$1000/month, BuyVM decides to move to Vegas which involves manpower, transport (vehicle, flights) and more hardware to support future 10G expansion. Really? For US$1000/month? This is the same BuyVM that gave free SSD upgrades which probably costs them more than the US$12,000/year. The accusation simply doesn't compute on business grounds.


----------



## mitsuhashi

Can't read, too long, work calls.


----------



## egihosting

This is James from EGI Hosting. This may be off-topic, but I had to comment.

I didn't deal directly with BuyVM and their networking situation a year ago, so I may be wrong. My understanding was that EGI investigated and made recommendations for BuyVM to improve their situation. We did the best we could at the time.They declined our offer and moved away. I was very pleased to hear that their problems resolved shortly after they arrived at Fiberhub.

EGI takes great pride in our network and regrets that we couldn't do more to help BuyVM when they had issues in San Jose.

Thanks.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

egihosting said:


> My understanding was that EGI investigated and made recommendations for BuyVM to improve their situation. We did the best we could at the time.They declined our offer and moved away.


Not quite, James.  Di would be the one to ask if you need more details, as he worked with us the most on it.  We tried several of your recommendations, but drew the line when we were told "you have to replace your routing hardware with what we specify".  Especially when we had an identical setup working just fine in another location.  You might have also not read the part where we tried the same setup we had with you at Fiberhub in Vegas... and experienced no problems at all.


----------



## maounique

DifferentOpinionsNotWanted said:


> Where is the other proof? The proof of ownership/control of LET and the proof that the issues in San Jose were not due to EGI? I think those are the things that people that keep requesting. So far, you have only posted proof to 1 of 3 of your claims.


So what would have satisfied you ? A picture of Aldryic pressing the ban button ? I think it is obvious for everyone what happened, especially since Francisco admitted many times he did the work on the forum and blog as a result of Chief being incompetent with that.

The timing was this:

Moment t-1: Everything is perfect, BuyVM quality is legendary, everything INCLUDING network is perfect, everyone couldnt be happier;

Moment t0: Aldryic starts rambling about Tor operators trying to justify banning the app from their network (note they did have quite a few nodes in their network, including exit ones due to very bad network the throughput was low enough to be unnoticeable, he had no idea how to find them and what Tor does);

Moment t1: I start an investigation on why those attacks feeling there must be something amiss there. ALdryic does everything he can to ridicule me, knowing fully well that such language and insults would have earned a ban for everyone else, in the attempt to discredit the results of the investigation;

Moment t2: Finally, people start posting speedtests and the cat is out of the bag which makes Aldryic lose it completely posting memes non-stop and inventing strange reasons for that, from a localised isse to one customer or another, going through bad switches and strange routing, finally blaming the DC. One must remember everything was perfectly fine and the network quality legendary, just a few days ago, it only degraded when people started posting speedtests;

Moment t3: The proof is done, everyone reading the topic knows that their network sucks and I get banned as a  consequence coincidence. They couldnt make up their mind for a reason, so it was either because I was annoying or because I supported the attacks against LET (even though nobody could point to the place where I did that);

Moment t4: The fallout from this includes Aldryic withdrawing from LET (I do not know if from own initiative or because Francisco forced him), they blaming EGI meant they could no longer stay there because adding more bw to solve the issue would have proven my point and we all know how the move went with days of downtime and power failures because they didnt have A+B even though the DC had, so on and so forth;

Moment t5 (now); I make a parallel between the BuyVM and CC rule at LET in an attempt to prevent history from repeating itself and Francisco goes off attacking Prometeus, claiming it didnt deliever on the IPv6 issue in Dallas and threatening to hack the SolusVM installation using the illegally obtained knowledge about it fromt he days when he was reusing parts in his Stallion 1 release if his demands are not met (fireing me).

Can anyone in their right mind maintain that the following are coincidences:

1. The network problems at BuyVM starting the moment people started posting speedtests as a result of my investigation;

2. The attacks on Tor operators to justify the ban earlier;

3. My ban just after the proof that their network sucks (literally the next day) when nobody could point at any place where I was breaking any rule while Aldryic broke all rules regarding language and personal attacks, threeats and insults and while they were still maintaining it was another issue, not their undersized connection. All this after denying all the time they have a network problem at all and it is only my imagination trying to force them to allow Tor (even tho I said at least 10 times that is not the case, I am prefectly happy with other providers which do have the capacity to host it).

I agree it does not make sense, it didnt make sense for Francisco to blackmail Prometeus either, he knew damn well he cannot silence me with that, yet he took a big risk for nothing. Also Aldryic language is known and he is tolerated even if he is breaking the rules, however, it does hurt their reputation and it never worked against me, so, maintaining the same attitude is illogical and counterproductive, yet, here we are...

Their attacks started the whole thing in the first place, they continue with that trying to stop the fallout, even tho it is clearly not working, dont blame me for their lack of logic at least alcohol can be blamed now after new year celebrations, but they had no justification in March and 2 days of April. 

Math and Logic are not their strong points, not my fault, sorry.

BTW, now I clearly made the request for the title to be changed, even gave an alternative the admins still didnt see it, no problem, I can wait a bit more.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> [...]


[CITATION NEEDED]

Seriously though.  We asked for proof, not more abstract storytime and made up conjecture.  Your perception of reality is very rarely the actual truth, especially as given to change details as often as you do.  Let's see some actual numbers.  Some links and references to actually back up your claims.  Nobody is going to believe something is true just because you of all people claim it is so.

Like I said before, though...



Aldryic C said:


> When you're ready to discuss matters like an adult, I'll be more than happy to sit down with you and provide clarification on your misunderstandings.


----------



## tchen

Aldryic C said:


> [CITATION NEEDED]
> 
> Seriously though.  We asked for proof, not more abstract storytime and made up conjecture.  Your perception of reality is very rarely the actual truth, especially as given to change details as often as you do.  Let's see some actual numbers.  Some links and references to actually back up your claims.  Nobody is going to believe something is true just because you of all people claim it is so.
> 
> Like I said before, though...


Well, the bar for proof HAD been lowered of late at LE and here.  It's not surprising if he decides to carry on the fine tradition


----------



## maounique

I think I provided enough proof so this is at least credible:

1. Francisco admits he controls database and has full access on LET when the site is hacked/ddosed "helping" the moronic Chief that was only a frontman which eventually screwed everyone selling LE* to CC.

2. I prove after a long struggle and a lot of denials that 2gbps cannot sustain 4-5 K customers with at least 500 GB monthly each, they continue the denial and I am banned without any clear accusation, just vague hints without anything to substantiate.

3. At that time BuyVM didnt blame the DC yet, were still in the denial phase, it was some weird routing, some switch acting up, etc, they had to admit it after my ban did not stop the people complaining about ridiculous speeds. 

If the only proof for them banning me instead of Chief which wasnt even present in the discussion as he wasnt caring anyway, is a closeup of aldryic pushing the ban button, I am afraid you are asking too much and nothing will convince you.

The romans had a saying: Cui prodest ? Who benefitted from me being banned ? The BuyVM customers which now were serching for a better provider ? LET ? Chief who couldnt be arsed to even read anything ? Or BuyVM who had to upgrade their connection (logical choice) or move out (illogical choice, made inevitable by putting the blame on the DC) ?

Remember they didnt agree they have a problem yet, it was still a bunch of isolated problems, wether switches, bad routes to one or another of the customers, things like those. My Ban didnt help them, the cat was out of the bag already,  true, but it was not sure at that time, maybe they thought they can still supress the matter. 

They seem to think still that they can silence me by blackmailing Salvatore, such a nice man who had nothing to do with the events as I only got one vm from him on the 17th of march, 2 weeks before being banned while the campaign for the truth against their baseless accusations started in February, I was only nearing the truth, and I only started woring for him some 6 months later.

It is a low blow the attempt to involve him, not to mention blackmail him that enough should be proof BuyVM is capable of the lowest of the lows to silence me, a ban in LET is, indeed nothing to write about compared to hacking blackmail against a third party.


----------



## MannDude

_Note to self: Don't piss off Mao_

On a serious note though... this thread is just going on and on. We're talking about things from years ago. Is there any recent developments in anything related to any of this?

Hard to justify locking a thread when everyone is so civil, but it does seem to be on loop now. Everyone wants the last word


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Just because you claim something happened, doesn't mean it's actually so.  Once again, waiting on proof of these ridiculous claims.


----------



## maounique

MannDude said:


> _Note to self: Don't piss off Mao_
> 
> On a serious note though... this thread is just going on and on. We're talking about things from years ago. Is there any recent developments in anything related to any of this?
> 
> Hard to justify locking a thread when everyone is so civil, but it does seem to be on loop now. Everyone wants the last word


Did I misunderstand it or you are threatening to close the thread ? And, BTW, did you change the title as you said you agreed ? I still see the mock title, even though you said you asked me if to change it or not, I even provided you with an alternative, yet you keep ignoring that 

If you need any recent justiffication for the thread, the blackmail Francisco did to silence me is from the 15th of December 2013, or that is from the last year and doesnt count, I need to provide events from 2014 to be allowed to prove my case here ? 

Quit their game, you will lose too, let them sink in their lies, blackmails, bad language and illegalities. It is them who cried paedophiles without any proof, it is them who started this, now it is not going so well so we should just forget the whole thing ? Why, because BuyVM says so ? Then, go on, say BuyVM requested the topic split and the name to be kept, full disclosure, we are asking, not ?

I told you, the only way to sience me is a full ban. I will continue on LET, then, you cant stop it, not you, not BuyVM, the truth is out there in the open and will continue to be, no matter how many friends they have now, they are fewer and fewer, Salvatore considered himself a friend of theirs before the completely uncalled attacks and threats.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

_Watch out Curtis, you "threatened" him, now he's going to cry about you for the next two years._

Funny, for someone that keeps claiming Prometeus is uninvolved in this (despite a very blatant endorsement of the childish behavior by this Salvatore chap), you sure do keep mentioning them.  Still waiting on all that proof, btw.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> Did I misunderstand it or you are threatening to close the thread ? And, BTW, did you change the title as you said you agreed ? I still see the mock title, even though you said you asked me if to change it or not, I even provided you with an alternative, yet you keep ignoring that


Yes, you misunderstood. There is nothing 'threatening' about what I said, sorry if it came off that way. What was the agreed upon title changer? Sorry if I missed it, I'm not following this thread as closely as you are. I'll go through your last posts in it and see where it is.

EDIT: "the truth about Mao and BuyVM" is what you suggested. Is that what you wish to go with? Your thread, your title.


----------



## maounique

Well, it isn't exactly my thread and it should be The truth about Mao and BuyVM" my capitalization sucks.

For someone who didnt read you were quick to judge it is about long forgotten events, though, when their latest "good deed" to cover up was to blackmail Prometeus.

They say I brought it on, yet they threatened it WAY before he posted here or expressed any oppinion for that matter, in fact, it is the said blackmail that forced him to defend himself. By coming in the open about it, Francisco will no longer be so keen to put his threats into practice, since everyone will know who did it. He has the means (extensive (illegally obtained) knowledge about SolusVM), the motivation (his hatred against me and the need to silence me somehow, blackmailing Prometeus is just the means justiffied by the end) and the opportunity (there must be some exploit he knows about, every software is exploitable by someone with a deep understanding and experience with it, and our Solus is out in the open for the whole internet to connect). He mentions peace of mind being better than having me work for him, this is blackmail and even terrorism in the purest form. I brought Prometeus in ? ME ?


----------



## wlanboy

I still believe that might come to an good end.

In my point of view there are some native speaker / non-native speaker misunderstandings.

And of course a little bit too much love (protective instinct) for the own brand.

So:


Yep their were network problems
Yep the move to Las Vegas was annoying
Yep it is not nice to change TOS regarding allowed services
But:


Everything else is missunderstanding and escalation (vicious circle one)

Things to clarify:


Aldryic did not say that Mao favors child ********
Aldryic does hate Tor not idealistic Tor ops
Francisco did not threaten Prometeus
Hey I can create a VPS on Prometeus too - within seconds - without any hack - I can - hold breath - use the order button too. He wanted to say he can proof his claims by ordering a vps!
No hack - a simple order!
So everything can be resolved if pride and temper might be allowed to step back. (hopefully)


----------



## maounique

wlanboy said:


> I still believe that might come to an good end.
> 
> In my point of view there are some native speaker / non-native speaker misunderstandings.
> 
> And of course a little bit too much love (protective instinct) for the own brand.
> 
> So:
> 
> 
> Yep their were network problems
> Yep the move to Las Vegas was annoying
> Yep it is not nice to change TOS regarding allowed services
> But:
> 
> 
> Everything else is missunderstanding and escalation (vicious circle one)
> 
> Things to clarify:
> 
> 
> Aldryic did not say that Mao favors child ********
> Aldryic does hate Tor not idealistic Tor ops
> Francisco did not threaten Prometeus
> Hey I can create a VPS on Prometeus too - within seconds - without any hack - I can - hold breath - use the order button too. He wanted to say he can proof his claims by ordering a vps!
> 
> 
> No hack - a simple order!
> 
> So everything can be resolved if pride and temper might be allowed to step back. (hopefully)


1. He said it even here, someplace he said that I do this crusade because he might have been right accusing me.

2. I do not understand what you mean.

3. You are joking, right ? Why would have mentioned peace of mind, then ? Have you even read the pictures ? For everyone unbiased they cry out blackmail. At least threats. Like, I will contact your boss salvatore and show him I can hack his Solus if you dont stop and you will lose your job. Since it is clear you have an issue reading those pictures (I am partly guilty, try to take screenshots and post running RDP from your phone and you will see what i mean):







Francisco December 2013


Why can't Prometeus deliver V6 in Dallas? This is a major problem for the service I have there. I require native V6 and I have no problems dragging this into a 10 page thing like you do every time. I feel this is a real let down as we were promised native V6. I dont care that your datacenter won't deliver it. I demand you cross connect to HE/Nlayer/L3 to deliver this.

Like, really. Look back at that ugvps thread. You turned a thread about a deadbeat father who ran out on 3 of his kids to Buffalo, stole his wifes identity to defraud *thousands of dollars*. Crystal isn't a fake - She's the real deal and she's going to stick it to every one of them.

Do you realize how *insane* you look? You somehow found a way to weave me into that all yet you sit and go on about how you think I'm a nice guy.

*If you want to waltz, say so and I'll make sure Sal reconsiders your employment by the end of it.*

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


OK, deal, Start your crap and I will reply, as always, with proof.




Francisco December 2013


No problem.

*I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a little bit.*

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


You do realize these threats are recorded, do you ?


Just to make sure you know what you are getting into.




Francisco December 2013


Oh there's no threats.

*You keep taking swings at me yet when I now offer to return it, you start freaking out.*

Why must you insist on always being a child with things.

*I'm not sure if it translates properly but there's a very simple saying around here, "Peace of mind is a wonderful thing"*.

Really, go ahead and read back the ugvps things. Try to justify your own replies.

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


I must admit you lost me. I simply said that when you run the place was much worse, yet you got no flak and while CC runs it, despite of everyone agreeing it was better that Chief/BuyVM time, they still get much more flak for it.

This is an obvious fact, nothing that can be hidden or made disappear with threats.


And, sure, if you know an exploit, others do, and that wont be any peace of mind, we will just know who did it.




Francisco December 2013


I never ran it though.

Really, go back _years_ before Chief and see how much effort I put into this place on LEB specifically (since LET2 isn't saved at all). Do you really 100% believe that if I had some full say in this place, that I wouldn't put the same level of dedication into it?

Think about that one and then reply. I'm dying to hear your reply to this one because you've already said it in the past that I'm a pretty dedicated guy.

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


I do not deny you were dedicated towards this place, I never did, however, you are not willing to give CC the same free reign to do what they please.


Full say is relative. Full say in what capacity ? As advisor ? As sine-qua-non helping hand that keeps the money flowing ? As a friend ?


And "run" has many meanings. From the technical (that you admit) to the political (that you do not).


In short (since the TL;DR gang always had a problem with thorough explanations and proof) you were not technically deciding who should be banned and who shouldnt, but you were the committee that made the "friendly suggestion".


I never called names in that thread, never broke any rule, it was Aldryic who did, but I was banned, the difference between us being that I was proving with facts (of which mostly came from others) something he tried to disprove with lies and bullying.


When he lost on the whole line and had to admit the problem, you or him realized what a danger I can be and decided to contain the damage, admit the problem and ban me for future occurence.


You lost and only because you let Aldryic behave like an ass, breaking not only human dignity but also the written rules of the place, you should have known that when he started calling names and stop him, but you continued to instigate people against me even so.


In spite of all this, I do like you and I am sorry for what will happen, but, it will have nothing to do with me, it is simple math and economics.


I have my own company here and until recently prometeus wasnt even the biggest customer, so, you see, your threats are pointless, in a war between us you stand the most to lose and, even if you do win, the wagers are far from equal, so consider your actions well. You know I wont stop bringing this up, not without a formal apology from Aldryic at the very least for the way he acted and insulted me in breach of the written forum rules.




Francisco December 2013


And every time we talk your story gets weaker and weaker that I run the place or placed the ban. You keep confirming what I keep saying. If I ran the place I wouldn't have run it into the ground. Things would have been much different and in short I really do wish I had taken it and just figured out a compromise with the community.

*Everyone* recommended you get banned. Joel got a slew of PM's about it. *I was only involved in the initial technical because Joel didn't know what he was doing. I spent maybe a weekend getting things setup but past that and any technical pointers I didn't login again. Supposedly Joel never removed my keys, though (according to Alex/sysadmin).*

Like I said, if you want to waltz then so be it. There is nothing to 'lose', it's simply wasting everyones time but you seem to want to do that? So OK.

You won't get an apology from him because he doesn't care. In reality you stay in a community that's doomed by most people with the only ones sticking around are those that **need* CC to stay alive.

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


OK, start a thread and i will reply, lets settle this for the dead community too, because the live one already knows it.


And banning someone should not be a vote, it is either they broke the rules or not. Nowhere it says the admins have the right to ban left and right as they please, the PMs and flags should have given a reason why and how I broke the rules.


It was aldryic in clear breach, but he was not banned. Your gang is accusing CC of much more with less proof, if it would just happen to ban someone from your people for calling me a cunt for example, everyone would jump the gun to prove how this proves the CC people decide what is done here. And that would be a valid ban reason.


It is annoying when you judge with different measures, I agree nobody can be impartial, but you do not admit the obvious.


Fact is that Chief run it much worse than CC. You admit it was your fault, that is a start. But there is a lot longer to go to reach the truth, no matter how much "weaker" my story gets.


I do not ask for an apology in fact I am glad he didnt do it, I would have had to censor myself otherwise, allow the lies to pass, that would have been worse for me, but better for him, so it is great as it is, I call your bluff, start a thread against prometeus and me, prove how bad we are, how we deceive customers and give crap service with limitations all around, how we falsely advertise things that are not there or oversold to the roof.


I will love it and I guarantee you, many others will. It will be great entertainment for all of us, I mean, the dead part of the community.




Francisco December 2013


Oh I'd just nitpick the V6 stuff since you nitpick a single thing too. Our nodes are stable, plenty of RAM spare and every 256MB+ OpenVZ got an upgrade to pure SSD storage just recently. I think we have a dozen or so nodes pending upgrades but that happens at the start of January when I arrive in LV.

FYI, Aldryic got banned at the same time as you. You both got a timeout for about a week if I remember correctly. I do know he got banned at least once, though.

What are you going to do if Crystal gets into the UGVPS paypal and it has Chris' name on it?

It's unfair to compare Chief to CC. *Chief did 0 work and simply moved to sell the place.*

*Lets be honest, though. If I had kept the community instead of getting Joel involved* you would have started even *more* shit than you try to do now.

Francisco




Maounique December 2013


Nope, I never attacked any other provider. Even another attacker, one of the "I know you all are child molesters" gang, KuJoe even tho lied saying I supported Constantinos and that is why I was banned had 0 slack from me, because he runs an honest business, to my knowledge.


I was supposed to be banned 48 hours, at least the lie in the PM said so, but that lasted much longer and aldryic posted a few hours after, so nope this does not stand. I was sure was permanent and after a couple of weeks i stopped looking until some day I came back to an old vm and i found out it was still logged in somehow...


You can go and throw any accusation, I leave you a headstart, you can nitpick on any number of issues and I will not even compare with your side for the same issue, but you can be sure others will remember.


You cannot win this and you know it. One thing you can be sure of I will have a lot of fun and this time you do not have the 90% majority you had in that thread when people even when seeing the problem were still ready to back you up and attack me. This time you cant ban me either so it will be a fair fight especially since you wont be able to finish it if you start calling names.


You lost this place, it is over, you have another and I dont go in your yard, though I could and banning me would start a lot more shit but I do value a lot of people there so you got carte blanche there. I will just call your BS comparing the CC with BuyVM rule each time the accusations start flowing.


I do agree CC sucks, but does so a lot less than Joel and Aldryic did.


----------



## maounique

So, you can get the proof from above:

1. Francisco owned the community and involved Joel so I or someone else could not nitpick on that. He also admits Chief did 0 work, yet he only helped a bit in the beginning, but had the keys for the whole time. This means, of course, full root access. He didnt have the possibility to ban me ? OMG, look above, the proof is there by his own (recent) admission. Not to mention the past admissions when he was complaining about how much he had to work to defend from constantinos or other attacks. I might have no picture of him pressing the ban button, but he had the opportunity, the motivation and the means to do it.

2. Francisco clearly (for unbiased people) threatens to "provision himself a vm in Prometeus SolusVM". He also mentions peace of mind and Salvatore reconsidering my employment as a result of his actions and for his supposed peace of mind (like the existence of an exploit would bring peace of mind to anyone). He could have done that by placing an order ? Where ? In Solus ? Even if he could, we do not have automatic provision anymore, so he couldnt, even only technically speaking, provision "himself" a VM, provisioning is manual, we are doing it. So could that be interpreted even forced, in any other way, even only technically speaking ? No. As for the logic of it, come on, why would Francisco suddenly feel the need to order a VM from us ? To make Salvatore reconsider my employment ? Maybe give me a bonus, this was a customer I worked very hard to get.

I let you enjoy the reading and get the other conclusions and search there for the proofs of my other allegations. That is from 15th of december, way before Salvatore even said anything on the matter.


----------



## MannDude

Updated topic title as per request.

Catching up on thread now.

opcorn:


----------



## wlanboy

When I do read through al the mess I have to admit that *all of you three* are guilty.

I am not quite sure about what guilty, but I tend to believe that it is all about hurt ego and dogmatism.

Yup You, Fran and Aldryic said things that should not have been said.

Did anything happen but words? Any real world damage? Any non-LET related things?

Mao - one simple question: What do you really want?

Please answer the following questions:


What should Fran do?
What should Aldryic do?
What should this community do?
What should you do?
And please be carefull with your wishes.

Because they will expose your intension.


----------



## mikho

Mao, I think you get the part about Joel doing 0 work around the wrong foot.


Joel is the kind of guy that pays people to do his work. Well, in some cases, gets the job done for free.


Joel had a setup in mind how LEB/LET should be ran, "staff" on both places doing allt of work so he could make the money.


In the case of LEB (where I was a part) the only reason Joel posted a few offer were because he made "special" deals with some providers.


Yes, he was a sucker to let some providers cut in line of the long list of offers that got sent in. So the behaviour today is not that different from before. 


Most of your post above is about timing, things that happened in a certain order. That is actually no proof at all.


I could claim that I know the real reason why the Germans gave up WW2, the day before the surrender Chuck Norris was born. Coincidence? i THINK NOT!


See what I did there?


Speaking of bans, the rule of thumb on LET back when Joel ran it was that if Joel set a ban, he should also be the one to remove it. Don't ask my why. It was a rule set then and there. And since he was 'never' around, the ban lasted longer then needed. Sad to say but you were not the only one that this happend to, many members experienced it.


In a way you remind me of drmike/buffalooed/pubcrawler.


The way he goes on about CC and you about Buyvm has some similarity.


Posts are really long, repeating the same story over and over, the true point of the argument often gets lost somewhere in the middle.


You know "sometimes you can't see the forest because of all the trees" kind of thing.


Writing all this on my phone makes my hands hurt so I'll stop now.


I'll give one last advice to you Mao, try to forgive the past and live today. Dwelling in the past is not good for hour soul.


----------



## wlanboy

mikho said:


> In a way you remind me of drmike/buffalooed/pubcrawler.
> 
> 
> The way he goes on about CC and you about Buyvm has some similarity.
> 
> 
> Posts are really long, repeating the same story over and over, the true point of the argument often gets lost somewhere in the middle.
> 
> 
> You know "sometimes you can't see the forest because of all the trees" kind of thing.


*hehe*

I said this before.

One reason why Mao does get the room because vpsboard allowed such threads (CC) before.

This thread does have two good points:


To have an example for Aldryic:
"Please stop Aldryic ... you are now as mad to me as Mao is to you".


I did not had a example yet to explain Aldryic how bullish he can be. Now I have.

To have an example for drmike.
That he can see how he looks like when he's in CC rage.


----------



## Ruchirablog




----------



## ChrisM

I read parts of this thread... Who the f*ck is Mao?


----------



## mikho

Chris Miller said:


> I read parts of this thread... Who the f*ck is Mao?


Maounique from LET.


----------



## ChrisM

mikho said:


> Maounique from LET.


Ah ok. I guess I should have read more.


Anyone got a to;dr version?


----------



## maounique

wlanboy said:


> Mao - one simple question: What do you really want?
> 
> Please answer the following questions:
> 
> 
> What should Fran do?
> What should Aldryic do?
> What should this community do?
> What should you do?
> And please be carefull with your wishes.
> 
> Because they will expose your intension.


I am not afraid to expose my intentions, I was also honest from the start and I wont stop now.

I want to get back to Aldryic what he gave to countless people. I want to expose his hollow self, inflated on the back of the BuyVM legend which is as hollow as he is.

I want to deflate him and the legend to their puny little human dimensions. I want to show everyone that blindly following and skipping the facts (TL;DR) while hitting the enemies or perceived enemies of their idols is wrong and can be misleading too, most of the time.

Gangraping someone, even virtually with words should not be allowed, especially when the wording is not allowed by the rules of the forum, not to mention the rules of humanity. This kind of thing is killing LET, people are afraid to post because, before anyone gives a helpful answer (except when promotig their products), will crucify the poor guy. Why ? Because they can, they use the lack of consequences for themselves to refulae the same things that happen to them in the real life.

Aldryic started abusing a whole category of people on LET just because he was sure tehre will be no opposition and he can spread crap on everyone, they will just duck down and pray they are not singled out for more. I stepped out to get the most load because I can. I see through Aldryic and all he bullies of his sort. I see even through BuyVM finances but that is another topic, I let them go on that one because would be a low blow.

Each time i dig them up more dirt comes out, the legend of BuyVM get deflated a bit more. People realise there are tens of better, cheaper, more stable providers. These guys used LET to inflate themselves. Colocrossing uses it to put their people (own brands) ahead. I can understand that, the same way I could understand Joel, it is all about money, but when BuyVM invents accusations so awful just to hide the skeletons in their closet that is not acceptable by any standard. I intended to prove the reasons behind their campaign and I did. I could not care less for the ban, I just brought it up as a lesson for CC to understand this is not working. you cannot just ban someone on the internet and be even moderately sure it will not backfire and the truth will be exagerated rather than hidden. They seem to have understood it for now, I wonder how will they react when I will propose some changes there, it will probably be fun, just I dont have the time yet.

BuyVM never understood anything, they sink lower and lower each time we cross swords. I wage the sword of the truth, they just use swear words. It used to work on LET 2 years ago, not anymore, not today, not here.

That is what I want. What should they do ?

Put up the truth, prove it, admit their mistakes where needed. Accept they have no proof to accuse me. Accept that some things cannot be proven, but a circumstantial case can be put up. When someone had the means the motive and the opportunity, when it would have benefitted them tremendously in that context when chief had no reason to ban me at all, he didnt even care for anything more than money and ads exposure (and drama plays into that) then the logical conclusion is taht I was banned by the people which had an interest in it.

Most of all I want apologies for the irregular attacks, name calling, swearing, insults I had to put up with on the long road towards the truth.

But most of all I want them to apologise to Salvatore a man that I hold in high regard, such a gentle and polite man, which is sacrifying his tranquility to put up resistence against wiretapping and illegal snooping, who has been raided many times because he does not agree to force people to bring up IDs and keep logs of everything they do. A man which doesnt speak a lot, but does a lot, not for him, he is doing well enough without the VPS business, but for the poor people that cannot afford an expensive service, offering enterprise grade services for hamburger money, he also did a lot for me, he teaches me every day, we do not talk only about computers, but also about life in general and the meaning of it. He is my friend and attacking him to get to me was a really low blow. I should never forgive Francisco for this, but, if he apologises publicly to Salvatore and offers to disclose the Solus exploit doing a favour to everyone in the industry, almost, I will forget everything, I will be ready to start from tabula rasa, pretending I wasnt wrongly accused bullied and called names, I will forget they banned me and never mention this again. I do not want any apology anymore,  think we are more or less even, just apologise to Salvatore and disclose the Solus exploit.


----------



## wlanboy

Chris Miller said:


> Ah ok. I guess I should have read more.
> 
> 
> Anyone got a to;dr version?


Yup:



Mao said:


> I should never forgive Francisco for this, but, if he apologises publicly to Salvatore and offers to disclose the Solus exploit doing a favour to everyone in the industry, almost, I will forget everything, I will be ready to start from tabula rasa, pretending I wasnt wrongly accused bullied and called names, I will forget they banned me and never mention this again.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> 2. I do not understand what you mean.


This is your biggest problem.  You don't understand a great deal of what goes on, and as such tend to fabricate stories to fill in the gaps between your assumptions.



Chris Miller said:


> Ah ok. I guess I should have read more.
> 
> 
> Anyone got a to;dr version?


He went mental after I publicly stated a negative opinion about TOR a couple years ago, and has been screaming these walls of text without actually comprehending what goes on ever since.  If you skim the thread, you'll notice several of us asking him multiple times to present actual proof of his claims... and the only "proof" is more conjecture and storytime.


----------



## budi1413

I lol to the thread name. 


I hope Mao, Fran and all can be friends. You all are awesome people.


You know what? Someone who hate you actually care about you.


----------



## mpkossen

Mao said:


> But most of all I want them to apologise to Salvatore a man that I hold in high regard, such a gentle and polite man, which is sacrifying his tranquility to put up resistence against wiretapping and illegal snooping, who has been raided many times because he does not agree to force people to bring up IDs and keep logs of everything they do. A man which doesnt speak a lot, but does a lot, not for him, he is doing well enough without the VPS business, but for the poor people that cannot afford an expensive service, offering enterprise grade services for hamburger money, he also did a lot for me, he teaches me every day, we do not talk only about computers, but also about life in general and the meaning of it. He is my friend and attacking him to get to me was a really low blow. I should never forgive Francisco for this, but, if he apologises publicly to Salvatore and offers to disclose the Solus exploit doing a favour to everyone in the industry, almost, I will forget everything, I will be ready to start from tabula rasa, pretending I wasnt wrongly accused bullied and called names, I will forget they banned me and never mention this again. I do not want any apology anymore,  think we are more or less even, just apologise to Salvatore and disclose the Solus exploit.


+1 for this. Involving Salvatore was a really, really low blow. Regardless of what I or anyone else thinks of Mao, Aldryic, Fransisco, BuyVM, or this whole situation, an apology to Sal is only right. He had no part in this and was forcefully dragged in, without the need to do so.


----------



## maounique

Also, remember the hacking threats took place in the 15th of December, Francisco wanted this latest brawl, I merely compared his rules with CC rule that was all. He says he never had a say in how Joel was running things yet he admits he brought Joel into this, for which purpose I can only guess, I think he wanted to rule by proxy but ended up screwed by the guy, like everyone else.

No, people, this is not a thread i started to provoke BuyVM, it was forced upon me in the hope Aldryic will work again his magic in ridiculing and attacking me into oblivion, Francisco attacked Prometeus in my PMs and blackmailed me/him long before I decided this is a too low blow to let it pass.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

mpkossen said:


> +1 for this. Involving Salvatore was a really, really low blow. Regardless of what I or anyone else thinks of Mao, Aldryic, Fransisco, BuyVM, or this whole situation, an apology to Sal is only right. He had no part in this and was forcefully dragged in, without the need to do so.



Perhaps you should pay a bit more attention to who dragged him into this in the first place.



Mao said:


> What you fail to understand as well as CC is that I dont care if I am banned, Uncle doesnt care either frankly I am a liability in these forums and I know it, because of my "attitude" Francisco will punish Prometeus, so being banned will be better for everyone except for the truth.


If you take the time to actually read this thread - Mao brings up Prometeus multiple times.  I even made an attempt to have Sal left out of this mess:



You'll also notice later in the thread that Sal himself comes in and endorses Mao's actions.  Prometeus getting involved was their own choice.


----------



## maounique

If youa re going to make up stories, at least get your facts straight. You used to be better at fabrications lost your touch ?

Francisco blackmailed me kindergarden style (I am going to tell on you to your daddy) threatening to hack Prometeus (my) SolusVm because he wanted me jobless. Just re-read his PMs above he sent in the 15th of december. The post you are quoting is from the 29th. So, again I brought Prometeus into this, or was Francisco 2 weeks earlier ?

That was part (the decisive part) of the reason why I came here on his home soil where he has the most supporters (though, sadly, much less today than 18 months ago on LET) so I can call his bluff and make it public, when he will indeed hack it, everyone will know who did it. I said it loud and clear with a time stamp, so this can serve as evidence. It should be enough blackmail is a felony even if nothing bad happened, but I am sure he will go lower and will actually do it, nothing much to lose, it seems, he must be desperate to go this low.


----------



## scv

This thread:



Enough already, guys. If you want to continue spinning your wheels do it in PM. We don't need 11 pages of the same circular reasoning.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

While we've got the tinfoil hats out and are making things up... let's all congratulate *@mkpossen*, who doesn't participate in the community outside of defending himself in certain threads, for helping confirm an earlier theory:







Guess we've got confirmation now on who's bankrolling Mao's twisted little campaign 

On a more serious note - see how easy it is to twist coincidence and fabricate a possible story?  This is exactly what you've been doing the past two years, Mao.  I make a comment about TOR being used for child pornography (a fact you cannot dispute), and you launch into a smear campaign that lasts well over a year.  Francisco trolls you to try and give you a taste of your own medicine; to show you what you're doing to others - and you use it as an excuse to drag your employer into a petty squabble.  Worse off, if your claims of "Sal considered Fran a friend" are true, then you are the direct reason for that tie to be severed.

And still, we have absolutely zero proof to any of your claims.  But by all means, go ahead and continue your little storytime - at this point all you do is discredit yourself.



scv said:


> Enough already, guys. If you want to continue spinning your wheels do it in PM. We don't need 11 pages of the same circular reasoning.


Alas, if only it were so simple.  This isn't WHT where we can flag a thread, and mods will demand proof of accusation or shut it down.  He's going to keep spinning his lies, so the only real choice is to keep countering them.


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> And still, we have absolutely zero proof to any of your claims.


Indeed.

 Do you really think everyone here is one of your TL;DR proud backers ? Some people know how to read, you know, dont get intimidated when the proof is a bit long I even "highlighted the highlights" of the proof. No to mention that Francisco is the one making baseless wild claims that everyone backed my ban on LET even tho the same day there was a thread asking why I was banned and voicing opinions against it. Poor TL;DR crowd had to start scratching their heads since they had no idea because they never read what I was posting ahd started to make wild guesses or launching bluffs that people which read immediately called, so they had to say the proof has been deleted. perhaps the banned people can delete stuff hehe 

They had to make up an excuse that the ban was for 48 hours to stop the peaople from asking more questions. It wasnt so and we have even an explanation here.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Some people know how to read, you know


Sure, until they have to deal with your rambling.  I understand the ESL barrier, but I've seen children with better forumulation.

At the end of the day, your only "proof" is stories you tell.  You have no hard evidence backing your claims, and no amount of illiterate textwalling will change that.  But don't worry... I'm sure _somebody_ out there believes you.  Maybe.  Until they realize that you conveniently ignore every logical counter-post, and immediately cry about something else to distract attention away.

Offer's stll open:



Aldryic C said:


> When you're ready to discuss matters like an adult, I'll be more than happy to sit down with you and provide clarification on your misunderstandings.


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> Sure, until they have to deal with your rambling.


Actually they only needed to read Francisco's PMs, even without my replies, they are still backing up what everyone which knows how to read was aware of for a long time. The others will never be convinced, you will always have your backing.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Have you even read the replies and commentary on this thread? O_ô

Or, as usually, are you simply ignoring everything that doesn't suit your interests?  It's pretty obvious you're just clapping your hands over your eyes/ears and going straight to your happy place at this point.  Be careful Mao, this is how religion and superstition starts.


----------



## maounique

Yes, people didnt read the proof. It is as recent as it can be (you are very lucky older threads on LET got truncated by the "clusterfuck"), no need even to start looking for older proof many people dont know about. It is enough to read Francisco's PMs and at least half of my story is checked 100%, the rest can be deducted.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Yes, people didnt read the proof. It is as recent as it can be (you are very lucky older threads on LET got truncated by the "clusterfuck"), no need even to start looking for older proof many people dont know about. It is enough to read Francisco's PMs and at least half of my story is checked 100%, the rest can be deducted.


Half?  You've made so many errant claims, that single PM is not even a 10th of it.  Again mate, you need to go actually read people's reactions to those screenshots - best case, harmless trolling; worst case - poor choice of words to someone bad with English.

You've proven nothing... and I take it from your last response that you aren't even going to try and find proof for your other claims.  So, after all of that, thank you for validating my continued statements that you're doing nothing but making up stories as you go.


----------



## Francisco

Why would I apologize to Sal? Because his worker has a grudge issue with the world? I did the favor of starting things in PM on LET since that's where he started things with UGVPS.

My 'friendship' to Sal has been long strained because he won't tell Mao to shove it. Any time I feel Aldryic's out of line or pissing on someone too hard I'll ask him to cool it and just let it be. He always does as I ask. Sal on the other hand fully backed all of Mao's comments, actions, etc, so it's a done deal.

Mao's child porn tantrum doesn't stop and Sal backs it with "Aldryic was mean to him (2 years ago)!!". Really? Come on now. If he wants an apology then he'll have to apologize for Mao. This won't happen, of course.

We've always been very transparent with everyone with how we operate, costs, contract lengths, upgrades, issues, etc. It isn't uncommon for a ticket reply to a customer to include 2 bodies of text. A TL;DR at the top and a full on nerd break down for the 2nd. If you even read the PM log you'll see an ifstat log showing our BW usage for the area. Mao can sit and dispute all he wants again, but that was from a late night run of it.

Anyway, I'm on some really terrible free internet at the hotel so could someone let me know if Mao said yes or no to them being hacked? Or did he skate the issue?

I'm off to head off to the DC, I'll check back through-out the day as I get time.

Francisco


----------



## willie

Slow motion train wreck... you WANT to stop watching, but can't... opcorn:


----------



## wlanboy

Francisco said:


> Francisco


Do you really think that the following statement is ok?



> Do you realize how insane you look?
> 
> 
> You somehow found a way to weave me into that all yet you sit and go on about how you think I'm a nice guy.
> 
> 
> If you want to waltz, *say so and I'll make sure Sal reconsiders your employment by the end of it.*


----------



## Francisco

wlanboy said:


> Do you really think that the following statement is ok?


It makes me out to be a dick but I've had him nipping at me for *2 years*. As I said, I have no problem stirring their pot like he's doing to us for *2 years*.

You realize that right? We left EGI a year this month and we made the agreement to leave them in the October prior to that. Prior to *that* we ordered switches that March and setup in CC in June. We knew where the problem was within the first week of being online at CC.

My only contact in SJC at the time was Matt, EGI's old worker, so I couldn't quite ask him how many uplinks they had in 1090. It's only once I was onsite to move did I go hunting around and found their 1090 switch and saw the fiber run.

Francisco


----------



## wlanboy

Francisco said:


> It makes me out to be a dick but I've had him nipping at me for *2 years*. As I said, I have no problem stirring their pot like he's doing to us for *2 years*.
> 
> 
> You realize that right?
> 
> 
> Francisco


Yup - I read through all the quotes (quite a lot of work).

It is like this statement:



> No problem.
> 
> I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a little bit.


I can understand both sides.

But I have to say that both sides could have handled the situation in a better way.

As far as I understood Mao - these two statements hit him hard.

I know that you did not want to get him laid off and that you did not want to do anything with their Solus instance.

You would not say the same things today, or?

So why not gird up your loins and say that you did not mean it like that?

@Mao

I will take you at your words that this will stop then.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

wlanboy said:


> I know that you did not want to get him laid off and that you did not want to do anything with their Solus instance.
> 
> You would not say the same things today, or?


Knowing that it would be taken seriously and blown out of proportion... similar things, but not the same wording.  A better message would've been "We're really tired of having to constantly defend ourselves about the same claims over and over - you can either work this out with us directly, or we'll go over your head if necessary".

Though it's pretty clear now where Sal lies on the issue, so it's a moot point.


----------



## mpkossen

Aldryic C said:


> Perhaps you should pay a bit more attention to who dragged him into this in the first place.


I did. Did you? As far as I can tell, is was your boss that pulled him in around Dec 15.



Aldryic C said:


> While we've got the tinfoil hats out and are making things up... let's all congratulate *@mkpossen*, who doesn't participate in the community outside of defending himself in certain threads, for helping confirm an earlier theory:
> 
> Guess we've got confirmation now on who's bankrolling Mao's twisted little campaign


Who's making up stuff now? I don't know Mao outside of his alias(es); I wouldn't even know how to bandroll his "campaign". I also said nothing in regards to your battle. I only said something about Salvatore, who was treated unjustly IMHO.

Also, I have every right to post here whenever I want to. It is not yours to judge that. I have an opinion on many things that were said here, but the way you guys treated Sal crossed the line for me.

"Friendly VPS forum" my ass. "Friendly" is selective, I guess.



Francisco said:


> Why would I apologize to Sal? Because his worker has a grudge issue with the world? I did the favor of starting things in PM on LET since that's where he started things with UGVPS.
> 
> 
> My 'friendship' to Sal has been long strained because he won't tell Mao to shove it. Any time I feel Aldryic's out of line or pissing on someone too hard I'll ask him to cool it and just let it be. He always does as I ask. Sal on the other hand fully backed all of Mao's comments, actions, etc, so it's a done deal.
> 
> 
> Mao's child porn tantrum doesn't stop and Sal backs it with "Aldryic was mean to him (2 years ago)!!". Really? Come on now. If he wants an apology then he'll have to apologize for Mao. This won't happen, of course.


You need to apologize to him because you dragged him in to a fued between you guys/BuyVM and Mao (as a person). That wasn't right and I hope you know it.

Mao is not Sal's to command. They're independent from each other. I don't know how it works for you, but as soon as my boss tries to tell me to shove it when I'm representing my personal opinion (and stating such), he or she will have definitely crossed a line for me.


----------



## mikho

When airing your personal opinion it will cast a shadow over your workplace, no matter what you think of it. You can not decide what other people think or do depending on what you say/do. By these words I'm not pointing fingers at someone specific, it goes both ways.


And @mpkossen, the child porn part of the TOR discussion has been there since TOR was banned from Buyvm.


I think that one part of what got Mao so fired up was that he felt accused (spelling correct?) when Aldryic said they were removing TOR because of the potential child porn usage that comes with it.


Unfortunatly when there are things invented for a good cause, it will surely be abused by someone who doesn't have good intentions.


----------



## MannDude

mpkossen said:


> "Friendly VPS forum" my ass. "Friendly" is selective, I guess.


Generally, friendly. Maybe it should be changed to 'Unbiased VPS forum' since it seems to attract some unfriendly characters on the rare occasion. (Not you or anyone in this thread). This thread is actually surprisingly civil, all things considered. I'd say this is a relatively 'friendly' disagreement these folks are having here.

11 pages and it hasn't been turned into a meme fest, slander-fest, no one has called anyone anything really bad. I'd say it's the friendliest, unfriendly disagreement I've seen on a VPS forum in a long damn time.


----------



## drmike

> "11 pages and it hasn't been turned into a meme fest, slander-fest, no one has called anyone anything really bad. I'd say it's the friendliest, unfriendly disagreement I've seen on a VPS forum in a long damn time."


Yeah we don't do the meme thing here on every thread.  The level of retardation is much lower here than on that old site.  Might have something to do with a little bit mature and often older audience.

I can train the town hoodlums to be summer / holiday hosts and sick them on vpsB if you'd like 

Now back to that story... A guy walks into a bar and there is a Romanian and  a Russian...


----------



## drmike

> I don't know how it works for you, but as soon as my boss tries to tell me to shove it when I'm representing my personal opinion (and stating such), he or she will have definitely crossed a line for me.


Glass house syndrome.   Here I threw one...

"my boss tries to tell me to shove it when I'm representing my personal opinion"

How did that go over with oh, say the UGVPS stuff?  Clearly corporate wasn't happy about their "investment" / "customer" being outed as a farce / ID theft / who knows what...

You know and I know there is Maarten the good guy who has a brain and sense and then there is the moderator who for some reason bends over and takes the shove from his superiors, minus the good lube.  Get to shoving back over there.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

mpkossen said:


> I did. Did you? As far as I can tell, is was your boss that pulled him in around Dec 15.
> 
> Who's making up stuff now? I don't know Mao outside of his alias(es); I wouldn't even know how to bandroll his "campaign". I also said nothing in regards to your battle. I only said something about Salvatore, who was treated unjustly IMHO.
> 
> Also, I have every right to post here whenever I want to. It is not yours to judge that. I have an opinion on many things that were said here, but the way you guys treated Sal crossed the line for me.


Apologies, I should've done that post in the purple colour (for sarcasm).  I've got nothing against you mate;  I was pointing out how I could pick a couple of coincidences with a loose connection (you admin LET, which is owned by CC, who also dislikes us - a tinfoil hatter could make the assumption that since you posted in this thread, CC was backing Mao).  100% untrue, which is why I added the "making this up as we go" lines.  It was a very silly example to demonstrate to Mao that simply 'making connections' does not make a truth.  Honestly, you're one of the more level-headed ones;  this place would benefit from more of your participation.



drmike said:


> Now back to that story... A guy walks into a bar and there is a Romanian and  a Russian...


Now if that Romo happens to be Vlad, we'll drain that bar in a hurry


----------



## raidz

For everyone complaining about this thread: just don't open it.

I am lurker and find this all pretty entertaining. Mao, I have a feeling that only a few people read your novels. You should consider condensing your posts a bit.


----------



## drmike

> He says he never had a say in how Joel was running things yet he admits he brought Joel into this, for which purpose I can only guess


Since we are digging up useless stinking corpses, Joel will do.

Who selected Joel to inherit LET/LEB on the community's behalf?   Who made that decision????   Was LEAdmin consulting other folks on this?  I know KuJoe was involved back then and so was Fran.  Shall we claim KuJoe is mister sinister.  Oh no!


----------



## drmike

" I make a comment about TOR being used for child pornography (a fact you cannot dispute), and you launch into a smear campaign that lasts well over a year. "

TOR is a shit network.  No doubt about it.  Same stuff is on the plain vanilla internet too.

Ald's propensity to labeling it a child porn method is factual, but far short of everything it is.

Now BuyVM can/will/should allow / disallow whatever they want on their network, for whatever reason they want.  Someone took a hating to Ald's repetitive assertion about porn.  

Can we rest the TOR portion  ?


----------



## ChrisM

What Fran and Aldryic are thinking right now:


----------



## Magiobiwan

On a somewhat related note, there needs to be a sarcasm button on the editor toolbar that automatically applies the purple color for sarcasm.


----------



## maounique

As everyone saw, for a long time I wasnt diging them up on their insults lies and attacks. When Francisco decided to attack Salvatore because I work for him and he thought that he can fire me by blackmailing him, that crossed the line.

So here we are again.

BuyVM is sinking without my help. When they started this trying to prove their network is stellar and there is only the moral motivation they call people names for, they were at their height, the zenith, 90% of LET firmly believed they have a legendary quality, every second thread was hijacked for praising BuyVM, were out of stock permanently.

Then Aldryic decided to go in a shit throwing campaign... The rest is history. They are now out of 2 more datacenters (not that they had none before EGI, every DC was rotten), Joel screwed them up big time (but, again who is to blame, who handed him the keys to give an air of legitimity to their shilling ?).

They are now attacking their competition trying blackmail with hacking threats. While everyone considers that is a legitimate course of action in revenge to my proofs that their network sucks, it is not so and many people will realise that after he will put it in practice. I am sure Prometeus will not press charges for the blackmail, but after he will do the actual damage, we will have another chapter in this saga.

Everyone should note I offered an elegant exit, they will appologise to the third party and do a service to the community by disclosing the exploit. They want to go on and use it, fine, even if we will suffer, that guy must be stopped somehow so he can no longer threaten anyone. He doesnt have anything to gain from it, the people hurt by the exploit wont run to BuyVM, nor will Salvatore fire me, he will do it just to prove he can be an ass which we already know by now.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Still waiting on that proof.  Not that you actually have anything to back your claims up with.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> Everyone should note I offered an elegant exit, they will appologise to the third party and do a service to the community by *disclosing the exploit*. They want to go on and use it, fine, even if we will suffer, that guy must be stopped somehow so he can no longer threaten anyone. He doesnt have anything to gain from it, the people hurt by the exploit wont run to BuyVM, nor will Salvatore fire me, he will do it just to prove he can be an ass which we already know by now.


What exploit?


----------



## maounique

MannDude said:


> What exploit?


Since he threatens to hack Prometeus's Solus, there must be one he knows. He has been illegally decoding solus and using parts of it in the past so he must have a deep knowledge of it. Anyone remembers how the localhost.re guy appeared when they were launching stallion 2 ?


----------



## jarland

You know there's one thing I got from this entire thread.

Mao, you need to take up drinking. Seriously. Join us. This is called peer pressure. Also, bro, you need to realize just how much of what Francisco says to you is purely to watch you freak out, because it's so easy to make you lose it. I'm not entirely convinced it isn't cultural. I've never been to where you're from, but everyone I've ever met from there takes everything so seriously and personally. Over here, we literally kick each other in the balls and even the guy bent over crying has a laugh about it later.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> Since he threatens to hack Prometeus's Solus, there must be one he knows. He has been illegally decoding solus and using parts of it in the past so he must have a deep knowledge of it. Anyone remembers how the localhost.re guy appeared when they were launching stallion 2 ?


Ah, okay. The 'threat' being he said he could provision a VM on a node. I have to agree with others that I think it's likely him just (smuggly) saying, "Yeah, I can go spend a few dollars and have a VPS on your network." and not, "I'm gonna hax0r u"

While Fran and Aldy seem like talented individuals, they don't strike me as people who'd risk their reputation on something so silly.


----------



## maounique

jarland said:


> you need to realize just how much of what Francisco says to you is purely to watch you freak out, because it's so easy to make you lose it.


I have been watching this for 18 months. If he does it just for laughs he is probably insane or wishes to close BuyVM and didnt have a better way to end it. He even wants to go visit jails for the laughs.

It could be I have seen many people from there doing absurd things so it could be a cultural thing, you guys are so bored you ick the wasp nest or dance around the bear just for the thrills.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

So apparently now I'm the localhost.re guy, too?

Still waiting on proof of all your lies.


----------



## maounique

MannDude said:


> Ah, okay. The 'threat' being he said he could provision a VM on a node. I have to agree with others that I think it's likely him just (smuggly) saying, "Yeah, I can go spend a few dollars and have a VPS on your network." and not, "I'm gonna hax0r u"
> 
> While Fran and Aldy seem like talented individuals, they don't strike me as people who'd risk their reputation on something so silly.


You havent been reading, it seems, I already disproved that theory. I will do it again for the TL;DR people:

1. We do not have automatic provisioning, so even with the forced conclusion that is a technical matter, it will not work;

2. Does someone hope to make me lose my job by buying more products from my boss ? He would work towards getting me a bonus in this case, after 18 months I finally managed to get this customer... And, sure, peace of mind is mentioned just for the heck of it.

And about their reputation... What reputation ? That they bully everyone ? That all the DCs they were in have a horror story to tell ? That they were abusing LET for shilling ? What's blackmail, blackhat hacking to add, small change for the thrills.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Right, well, this has gone on quite long enough.  Everyone's had a chance to voice their.. opinions on the matter.  At this point it's nothing more than someone with apparently no life wasting our time.  Quite a few times I've asked for proof of any of his claims.  Yet to see anything delivered.

I have a proposal for the moderators.  Since it's quite obvious that he won't end this willingly - call the bluff.  Ask him to provide evidence of his claims.  If you feel his claims are accurate, we'll withdraw from the thread and let him say whatever he likes.  If you feel his claims are baseless, remind him about "keep it civil", and put an end to this mess.  We've all had plenty of time to speak, so this seems like a rather fair way to close it out.


----------



## maounique

OK, call the mods. It worked in the past should work now. I am also interested to see if they will do it.

You should have continued calling names and abusing me, that would have been indeed a reason to close the thread and ban me. It worked on LET.


----------



## MannDude

This is going to continue endlessly until one of you stops replying.

I like Fran and BuyVM, I'm trying not be biased but in our past discussions I've never seen Fran say anything that'd compare to what he said to you Mao. I'll admit that he sounded like a smug asshole in his response to you from those screenshots. (Sorry Fran, ha) I've not seen either of these guys mention anything, even slyly or covertly that would hint to anything like you describe with anyone else or any company. This all sounds like a case of you not personally liking them, and they personally not being super fond of you. There are a lot of us, me including, who have that relationship with other people as well.

You all seem like good guys who just don't like each other but can't let the other one have the last word, if I'm being honest.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> OK, call the mods. It worked in the past should work now. I am also interested to see if they will do it.
> 
> You should have continued calling names and abusing me, that would have been indeed a reason to close the thread and ban me. It worked on LET.


As I said earlier, the only power Fran and Aldy have over vpsBoard is suspending my VPS for abuse or non-payment. The same as Nick from RamNode where I host things for vpsBoard and DSD, Tim from Hostigation, etc. This site is powered by many providers who I chose because they're ran by people with a good reputation in the industry and who I deem trustworthy. None of them encourage the content on here and are as open to ridicule as anyone else.

Why do you think I'd ban you? Jesus, was LET really such a shit-hole in the past that someone who is simply annoying would be banned? This isn't LET, man. I don't know why you keep thinking you're going to get banned. This forum is ran by modern software. It has the 'ignore' feature built in. Anyone who doesn't want to see the content of another member has the option of 'ignoring' them. This is a great feature for when people lack the self-control to respond to other people they don't like. This way, you simply don't see it.


----------



## maounique

Well, tbh i always had a problem with aldryic, not francisco. That is why I was so shocked by that, for a while I kept thinking if he is really serious and I contemplating the theory of him provisioning a vm by buying it, but no matter what i tried it didnt hold water.

I never expected him to attack Salvatore either, but since he allowed Aldryic to go on rampage against me and encouraged others too in the past this must be his true face he managed to hide for so long.

Everyone who was in so many dcs already and left slamming the door would look a bit suspicious, everyone not BuyVM, that is. They managed to always twist the story in their favour, they are great spindoctors, right, they had everyone so far, but not me, yet. So, they have to silence me somehow, otherwise other people might start to think and read for a change.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

MannDude said:


> Anyone who doesn't want to see the content of others can ignore them. It's simple.


There's a big difference between ignoring someone's comments about your person, and having to defend a business from libel.  That should be obvious enough that it doesn't _need_ to be pointed out.


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> There's a big difference between ignoring someone's comments about your person, and having to defend a business from libel.  That should be obvious enough that it doesn't _need_ to be pointed out.


So, does this mean that if the mods will not protect you from libel, you will take legal action is that so ?

I think you should direct your threats towards me not the forum or Prometeus. You can easily prove in the court that you never had a network problem that I was making the whole story up and you left EGI because they were discriminating against short cabalines. What else did I claim about your company ? Refresh my memory.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

I never said anything about legal action - you're making things up again.  If you want to launch attacks on me because I dislike paedophiles, that's fine.  I'll /ignore you all day long.  But as long as you insist on spreading lies about the company I work for, I have little choice other than to waste my time correcting your fabrications.


----------



## maounique

OK, then again what else I claimed about BuyVM except that you were having a network problem you tried to cover up with lies and insults ?


----------



## jarland

Mao said:


> Well, tbh i always had a problem with aldryic, not francisco. That is why I was so shocked by that, for a while I kept thinking if he is really serious and I contemplating the theory of him provisioning a vm by buying it, but no matter what i tried it didnt hold water.
> 
> I never expected him to attack Salvatore either, but since he allowed Aldryic to go on rampage against me and encouraged others too in the past this must be his true face he managed to hide for so long.
> 
> Everyone who was in so many dcs already and left slamming the door would look a bit suspicious, everyone not BuyVM, that is. They managed to always twist the story in their favour, they are great spindoctors, right, they had everyone so far, but not me, yet. So, they have to silence me somehow, otherwise other people might start to think and read for a change.


Spinning situations to make less than favorable circumstances seem positive is a solid business skill.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> OK, then again what else I claimed about BuyVM except that you were having a network problem you tried to cover up with lies and insults ?


What else have you lied about aside from that?  Pretty much everything in this thread.


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> What else have you claimed aside from that lie?  Pretty much everything in this thread.


I am sorry, but you are wrong. I made other claims about the individuals Francisco and Aldryic. I proved long ago and you admitted you had a network problem as a company, I only disagree with you on the causes, nothing else is about the company, except the history everyone knows. You did have quite a few DCs, you did leave on bad terms, nobody disagrees on this, I have no idea about the dealings between BuyVM and those DCs and you say it was theirs fault, fine I am not even contesting this, I only said that anyone else than BuyVM would have looked suspicious after such an itinerary. 

All my other issues are with you and rercently Francisco. As I said, BuyVM can be left alone, you two are doing a great job at driving it into the ground, you dont need my help.


----------



## DomainBop

MannDude said:


> This forum is ran by modern software. It has the 'ignore' feature built in. Anyone who doesn't want to see the content of another member has the option of 'ignoring' them.



Oh, really?  We can ignore anyone?  I call bullshit.  Proof attached.


----------



## MannDude

DomainBop said:


> Oh, really?  We can ignore anyone?  I call bullshit.  Proof attached.


LOL! That's awesome. I didn't even know that was a thing.

Well, okay. I take it you _can't_ ignore admins. Maybe mods, I don't know.


----------



## maounique

So my next move will be to become and admin here so nobody will be able to ignore my Aldryic and Francisco rants  I used before BuyVM to designate those two and I was wrong. There might be decent people there.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> I am sorry


Yes, yes you are.  But I'll never expect an apology from you.



Mao said:


> I proved long ago


You didn't prove anything.  Your rants back on LET were claims that we massively oversold the network.  You even admitted this yourself in this thread.  Now you're claiming that you called EGI's problems, and are trying to give us flack for not immediately jumping the gun.

No proof, just you continuously changing your story.



Mao said:


> You did have quite a few DCs, you did leave on bad terms, nobody disagrees on this, I have no idea about the dealings between BuyVM and those DCs


Funny how "having no idea" never stops you from opening your mouth, though.  Here's a short history lesson for you:


Hostdime: Stole from us, still owes 600$
DirectSpace: *_VERY_ *shady DC; Fran worked there on a pittance for a very long time, having to sleep in what was practically a closet in the building.  We left on amicable terms - the owner even helped us move the gear to EGI.
EGI: Lied to us one too many times, tried to blame us for their networking issues.  Left them on neutral terms at the end of our contract.
ColoCrossing: Really shouldn't have to explain that one >_>




Mao said:


> All my other issues are with you and rercently Francisco.


Your issues with me stem from my opinions about TOR, and how I dislike the service due to how easy it makes the propagation of child pornography.  Your (recent) issue with Fran is 100% of your own doing - you have STEADILY attacked BuyVM for almost two years after realizing you had nothing on me directly.  And you seriously thought Fran wouldn't lose his patience at your nonsense?



Mao said:


> As I said, BuyVM can be left alone, you two are doing a great job at driving it into the ground, you dont need my help.


See, in one line you contradict yourself.  You couldn't even "leave BuyVM alone" for the length of a single sentence.  If your problems were actually with us, you would have been man enough to deal with us directly the past two years, rather than hiding behind your lies and attacks on the company.


----------



## maounique

Nope. While I admitted we disagree on the causes of your network problems as BuyVM, I only said you are throwing mud around to cover up the network problem. I say it again, we agree you had a network problem that started just when I was asking people to post speedetests, we only disagree on  he causes. Math also disagrees and also logic but that is another problem.

Since we are at distant past and BuyVM issue, what is with those allegations that Fran already failed at least another company before doing BuyVM ? I am genuinely interested, I only heard it recently.

Your "opinions" were plain name-calling without any proof. If you consider proof the fact there is cp on Tor then the same is in the Internet as a whole, so you are also a child molester because you run a host and this makes internet work. Do you like this parallel ?

You will then come to say, sure, there is more CP proportionally on Tor and I have no argument other than there is no statistic about that, but even if you were right, it is the same as claiming that since more black people are in jail proportionally, then the black people are felons.

I only attacked buyvm for their network problem, it's network is still average even poorer than many hosts which are consdered worse than you, Including CVPS (the last time i checked), but it is still much-much better than the disastruos analogue modem speeds of the past.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Nope. While I admitted we disagree on the causes of your network problems as BuyVM, I only said you are throwing mud around to cover up the network problem. I say it again we agree you had a network problem that started just when I was asking people to post speedetests, we only disagree ont he causes. Math also disagrees and also logic but that is another problem.


We never denied having a networking issue. It simply took longer than we would've liked to solve it - it's hard to diagnose and fix a problem that's being hidden by your upstream.



Mao said:


> Since we are at distant past and BuyVM issue, what is with those allegations that Fran already failed at least another company before doing BuyVM ? I am genuinely interested, I only heard it recently.


See... with as gung-ho as you are about trying to piss on us, I'm disappointed at the punishing lack of knowledge you actually have about us. The "failed company" would be Frantech, which was a semi-managed brand targeted at gameservers (mostly Ragnarok Online). We started BuyVM with the same plans at lower cost, on the catch that said plans with BuyVM did not include management. Loads of people cancelled their Frantech services and went to BuyVM - and after awhile, we decided it would simply be better to offer 'easier to use' services at BuyVM (such as the custom RO template we had for awhile) at a lower cost, and slowly discontinued the Frantech brand. Of course, Fran being Fran we still ended up providing much more help and hands-on than "unmanaged" called for. But that's one of the things that put us where we are - we'll go above and beyond, and not ask more for it. I mean hell, we just gave *FREE* SSD upgrades to the vast majority of our OVZ plans.



Mao said:


> Your pinions" were plain name-calling without any proof. If you consider proof the fact there is cp on Tor then the same is in the Internet as a whole, so you are also a child molester because you run a host and this makes internet work. Do you like this parallel ? you will then come to say, sure, there is more CP proportionally on Tor and I have no argument other than there is no statistic about that, but even if you were true, it is the same as claiming more that since more black people are in jail proportionally, then the black people are felons.


Never once did I call you a paedophile, Mao. And you keep saying "name-calling"... how about you back that claim up with some proof. I tend to keep my insults high-brow.. and given your troubled grasp on English, most would've passed over your head unnoticed. I rarely resort to childish slurs to get my point across.



Mao said:


> I only attacked buyvm for their network problem, it's network is still average even poorer than many hosts which are consdered worse than you, Including CVPS (the last time i checked), but it is still much-much better than the disastruos analogue modem speeds of the past.


Still waiting on proof of these claims.


----------



## mpkossen

mikho said:


> And @mpkossen, the child porn part of the TOR discussion has been there since TOR was banned from Buyvm.
> 
> 
> I think that one part of what got Mao so fired up was that he felt accused (spelling correct?) when Aldryic said they were removing TOR because of the potential child porn usage that comes with it.


I stand corrected, I removed that part. I read it as an accusation while it wasn't.



MannDude said:


> Generally, friendly. Maybe it should be changed to 'Unbiased VPS forum' since it seems to attract some unfriendly characters on the rare occasion. (Not you or anyone in this thread). This thread is actually surprisingly civil, all things considered. I'd say this is a relatively 'friendly' disagreement these folks are having here.
> 
> 
> 11 pages and it hasn't been turned into a meme fest, slander-fest, no one has called anyone anything really bad. I'd say it's the friendliest, unfriendly disagreement I've seen on a VPS forum in a long damn time.


I guess we have different definitions of friendly (no pun intended). I call a lot of things unfriendly or undecent in this thread. I think memes could have actually lightened things up a bit. But I'm not here to point fingers, sorry about that. I'm just here to defend what Mao said about Sal.



drmike said:


> You know and I know there is Maarten the good guy who has a brain and sense and then there is the moderator who for some reason bends over and takes the shove from his superiors, minus the good lube. Get to shoving back over there.


That's twisting my words. There's a big difference between being told to shut it when voicing a personal opinion, or not sharing all the information you have about a case/business (just like I am not allowed to share my employer's finances) 

Look, I'll say this again, I'm just here to give my backing to the part that Mao said about Salvatore. I don't like to get involved in the fight, so really, I probably should have been briefer last night. I just think that dragging him in was a bad move and a big mistake. It's human to make mistakes, but it's common decency to apologize for them.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

mpkossen said:


> It's human to make mistakes, but it's common decency to apologize for them.


Funny that.. seeing as how you have no problems withholding an apology for a misunderstood slight. 



mpkossen said:


> Who's making up stuff now? I don't know Mao outside of his alias(es); I wouldn't even know how to bandroll his "campaign". I also said nothing in regards to your battle. I only said something about Salvatore, who was treated unjustly IMHO.





Aldryic C said:


> Apologies, I should've done that post in the purple colour (for sarcasm). I've got nothing against you mate; I was pointing out how I could pick a couple of coincidences with a loose connection (you admin LET, which is owned by CC, who also dislikes us - a tinfoil hatter could make the assumption that since you posted in this thread, CC was backing Mao). 100% untrue, which is why I added the "making this up as we go" lines. It was a very silly example to demonstrate to Mao that simply 'making connections' does not make a truth. Honestly, you're one of the more level-headed ones; this place would benefit from more of your participation.


Of course... it is harder to man up when it's to the person you're rooting against, so I don't hold that against you.


----------



## maounique

OK, Aldryic, thanks for sharing the story about Frantech. I only heard it now.

As for the proof regarding the average network speeds I gues we will have to wait for others to post theirs , who would trust anything coming from me against the knights in shining armor  Only regular people uninvolved posting speedtests managed to demolish the BuyVM myth in LET, I didnt post anything else than mathematical calculations and logical assumptions that proved to be true by third parties.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> OK, Aldryic, thanks for sharing the story about Frantech. I only heard it now.


No problem. I'm more than happy to clarify any questions or concerns, provided we do so like men without another 10 pages of the same thing, over and over.



Mao said:


> As for the proof regarding the average network speeds I gues we will have to wait for others to post theirs , who would trust anything coming from me against the knights in shining armor


To be quite fair.. threads like this are why you aren't trusted. The past few posts between us could have easily happened 13 pages ago, and there wouldn't be any of this drama. But the continued attacks, especially with no actual backing being posted, are why you weren't taken seriously.



Mao said:


> Only regular people uninvolved posting speedtests managed to demolish the BuyVM myth in LET, I didnt post anything else than mathematical calculations and logical assumptions that proved to be true by third parties.


Like I said, we never denied having network issues during the autumn months of our stay with EGI. What we couldn't do was _find_ them - we knew very well there were isolated instances (the folks that actually reported problems to us in ticket), we just couldn't find the cause until we realized what EGI was doing.


To be fair, you did post more. At your own admittance, you made multiple claims that:


The network problems were because we oversold our network (we did provide evidence to the contrary)
We restricted TOR usage because of its network use
To give you a full explanation on that, so we can put the TOR issue to bed: I create 99% of the policy for BuyVM.  When it came time to look at TOR, I was against it because while I fully support safety and security, I do not support anonymity. (that can be a topic for another time).  I also was against TOR because of the dangers hosts can face - we've all seen the reports of hosts that were raided due to specific activity from exit nodes.

Once Fran explained how middle/exit nodes work, we decided to update our policy and give TOR a try.  Middle nodes were fine, and exit nodes required SWIP (which, at the time, required getting a /29 from us.  I currently allow SWIP on /32s).  The SWIP was so that the admin of the exit node could handle their own abuse issues before it got to us.  But sadly, we had too many instances where people would try to run exit nodes without SWIP, or would have SWIP and completely ignore incoming abuse complaints.  We actually came close to a run-in with the feds over it, so we've since updated our policy again.  Middle nodes are fine, exit nodes prohibited.


----------



## maounique

Yet, you did require swip for middle nodes too (at least during our "close encounter" between man (me) and animal (pony)).

You also had exit nodes with months of uptime you knew nothing about, so the abuse generated was 0 but that might have been because the traffic was so much strangled by the network issues.

I agree exit nodes create problems, I always did, this is why I onlyhost them at home since in Romania cops are a bit more trained in internet affairs being such a connected country, but relays were never an issue and you motivated their banning because people were inadvertently setting up exits or plain did it in purpose which is the same as claiming that you deny people VPSes because they might inadvertently be hacked and host child porn or might even do it willingly.

That was the kind of rhaetoric that created the problem between us. You were unreasonable and kept claiming there is no way to differentiate exits from non-exits in spite of me expaining everything and giving relevant links for pages of text. That proved bad intent and I started to look for the real problem behind all those stunts.

Now that the initial issue has been solved, the Tor issue and the network problem issue (I always said it is enough and the truth is already known), the only remaining ones are my ban in LET and Francisco's attacks against Prometeus and Salvatore. Any idea on how to solve those issues ?


----------



## Shados

Hey look, I can emphasize things too! Let's start with Fran's third PM in the screenshots you gave, notably _missing_ from the textual list you gave later (why?):









Mao said:


> Francisco December 2013
> 
> 
> *Why can't Prometeus deliver V6 in Dallas? This is a major problem for the service I have there. I require native V6 and I have no problems dragging this into a 10 page thing like you do every time. I feel this is a real let down as we were promised native V6. I dont care that your datacenter won't deliver it. I demand you cross connect to HE/Nlayer/L3 to deliver this.*
> 
> Like, really. Look back at that ugvps thread. You turned a thread about a deadbeat father who ran out on 3 of his kids to Buffalo, stole his wifes identity to defraud thousands of dollars. Crystal isn't a fake - She's the real deal and she's going to stick it to every one of them.
> 
> Do you realize how insane you look? You somehow found a way to weave me into that all yet you sit and go on about how you think I'm a nice guy.
> 
> If you want to waltz, say so and I'll make sure Sal reconsiders your employment by the end of it.
> 
> Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maounique December 2013
> 
> 
> OK, deal,* Start your crap and I will reply, as always, with proof.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Francisco December 2013
> 
> 
> No problem.
> 
> *I'll go provision myself a new VM on your solus in a little bit.*
> 
> Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maounique December 2013
> 
> 
> You do realize these threats are recorded, do you ?
> Just to make sure you know what you are getting into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Francisco December 2013
> 
> 
> Oh there's no threats.
> 
> *You keep taking swings at me yet when I now offer to return it, you start freaking out.*
> 
> Why must you insist on always being a child with things.
> 
> I'm not sure if it translates properly but there's a very simple saying around here, "Peace of mind is a wonderful thing".
> 
> Really, go ahead and read back the ugvps things. Try to justify your own replies.
> 
> Francisco



Aaaaand suddenly it looks less like he's threatening to "hack your solus" and more like he's threatening to buy a VM from you, find some niggling little issue with it (e.g. lack of ipv6) and then complain about it endlessly on LET/vpsBoard/etc.: in other words, more or less exactly what you're doing to him. Yes, the exact words he used to say it make it somewhat ambiguous, but then that's what happens when you use conversational English and don't expect the other people in the conversation to willfully misinterpret your statements. Fran, care to confirm/deny that was the meaning you intended to convey?

Sure, he acted like a bit of a dick, but anyone (other than Gandhi) is bound to do so after two years of being harangued and insulted.

Mao, I understand how frustrating it can be to feel wronged and to fight against what you see as oppression of yourself and your right to speech, and how difficult the resulting emotional turmoil can make it to argue clearly and effectively, but if your aim here is to convince the board at large that your views are true, you re not succeeding.

If you want to convince people, you're going to need to sit down and take the time to gather & present 'proof' of your claims that has a standard of quality significantly higher than that of what you have posted so far. At _minimum_, you would need to post links to specific examples supporting your claims about BuyVM's network issues & their response (e.g. LET threads/posts). Proving your other claims (e.g. that BuyVM had admin/ban power and/or owned/ran LET at some point) would similarly require some sort of actual documentation clearly indicating this, rather than you just concluding it based you having been banned.


----------



## maounique

I do not need to convince anyone, they wont be convinced by any proof as you have shown above, I only need to put the truth out.

I kept attacking them in the beginning trying to get the truth out in the end it was Aldryic who gve me all the bullets, he admitted how small the link is how many customers they have I only did the math considering that all customers have only one plan and that is the lowest of them all and it still didnt compute even with a 10:1 oversell.

I delievered the proof then and I ws quite happy, but then came the ban and was unhappy again. He still didnt show me what rule Ibroke.

But it is all in the past now, I only reminded people about my ban in an attempt to stop CC from walking the same path.  Francisco snapped and decided he can blackmail Salvatore into kicking me. I think that was a big mistake but Iunderstand the rage somehow, he had to try something to silence me, I never said I dont understand it, all these years of denying and people still are not convinced, the times where the sayings of Francisco were the holy book of hosting are long over and the business is no longer what it was.

So, while the past was the past and I had enough revenge for what they did to me, they wanted to start it again and I dont back up I will call it all the time.

I noted though, that Aldryic has a different tone on this thread, at least towards the end. So, if they learned something, I am also ready to compromise, just have Francisco apologise and say he never meant to attack Prometeus Salvatore or SolusVM, disclose the exploit and we are done. I let them be.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> Yet, you did require swip for middle nodes too (at least during our "close encounter" between man (me) and animal (pony)).


At first, yes. This was updated within days, however, once we had discussed the issue further as a company.



Mao said:


> You also had exit nodes with months of uptime you knew nothing about, so the abuse generated was 0 but that might have been because the traffic was so much strangled by the network issues.


True, but you have to keep in mind that we also have other services that we don't allow that still run for a time before I get an abuse report on them. Privacy is a major concern - we don't go on witchhunts or scan IPs to see what's running. Eventually, we did get some abuse from exit nodes (mainly spam from poorly-configured exits); but to date I still don't check our nodes to see who's running TOR. I might occasionally glance down the public list of exit nodes to see if any of our IPs pop up, but that's just minor preventative.



Mao said:


> but relays were never an issue and you motivated their banning because people were inadvertently setting up exits or plain did it in purpose which is the same as claiming that you deny people VPSes because they might inadvertently be hacked and host child porn or might even do it willingly.


Not the same - but you're close. If someone screwed up and honestly set the exit node up by accident instead of a relay, they'd get a warning and be told to be more careful. But if someone made that same 'accident' multiple times? Yeah, we asked them to leave. Same with all unintentional abuse we get - they get two chances to fix the issue, and if they fail to do so they have to leave.



Mao said:


> That was the kind of rhaetoric that created the problem between us. You were unreasonable and kept claiming there is no way to differentiate exits from non-exits in spite of me expaining everything and giving relevant links for pages of text. That proved bad intent and I started to look for the real problem behind all those stunts.


It didn't prove bad intent, but it did prove my ignorance of the public lists (which I now utilize). Much of my frustration came from trying to find a way to automate the procedure - and by the time I had that squared away, we'd already come to heated words. To be honest, I wish we would've been able to discuss like this then, as your knowledge would've saved me a ton of headache.



Mao said:


> Now that the initial issue has been solved, the Tor issue and the network problem issue (I always said it is enough and the truth is already known), the only remaining ones are my ban in LET and Francisco's attacks against Prometeus and Salvatore. Any idea on how to solve those issues ?


Welp, let's start with the LET ban. I'm not sure if you'll ever believe me, but neither Fran nor myself had anything to do with that directly. At the time, Fran was actively trying to encourage me to just let it go and try to work things out with you, so I seriously doubt he even spoke with the mods about it. As for me - Joel and I were never really on good speaking terms, and the only other moderator I can think of off the top of my head was vedran. He seemed like a decent chap, but I never really spoke with him.

Now, it is very possible that whichever admin did the ban did so out of sympathy/loyalty/whatever to us. I honestly couldn't say there. Now... this is going back into tinfoil hat country, but it's worth considering - remember that this was after LEA left, and we don't know for certain if CC was already in control of the place. At that time, CC was very friendly with us (we had just opened a new location with them, after all), and we all know some of the underhanded tricks they've played. Is it possible that they were in control at the time, and banned you because you were attacking us? Might be. But I have no evidence at all, that's just a theory.

As far as Fran's "attack" on Prometeus - keep in mind that he's been biting his tongue ever since LET during all of these rants against us. I haven't seen the rest of that PM, but from what I understand he tried to work things out with you at some point. Given how often you and I lose our tempers and say things without thinking, it's pretty easy to see Fran finally losing his cool and saying something inappropriate. But I guess what that really comes down to is... it was just a PM to you, and he never went to Sal with any kind of threats/etc. Do you really think Fran was making threats, or just lost control of his tongue when things got heated?


----------



## maounique

To be honest I dont know what to think. Until then I thought Francisco is a nice guy that has to put up with you the same way Salvatore has to put up with me. When he threatened him I was stunned for a while i kpet thinking what to get out of this.

Then I remembered that he has actually the skills, the knowledge and motivation to do such a thing and I started to believe him. His reaction here to the peace offer from the injured party seemed to prove I was right.

So, honestly, why not let the man explain himself ?


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Mao said:


> So, honestly, why not let the man explain himself ?


He will. I've been handling most of this because Fran's actually at the DC in Vegas doing some more upgrades (we're getting some more SSD nodes prepped). He hasn't been keeping up with the forums either since he's been busy in the racks - I'll let him know you need a response from him though.


----------



## Francisco

Mao said:


> To be honest I dont know what to think. Until then I thought Francisco is a nice guy that has to put up with you the same way Salvatore has to put up with me. When he threatened him I was stunned for a while i kpet thinking what to get out of this.
> 
> Then I remembered that he has actually the skills, the knowledge and motivation to do such a thing and I started to believe him. His reaction here to the peace offer from the injured party seemed to prove I was right.
> 
> So, honestly, why not let the man explain himself ?


Read my reply after the provision comment. You claimed it was a threat to which I said "This is no threat".

If you or Sal took it as a threat then so be it. I'm sorry you took it that way but that wasn't the intention of the comment. I could have said 'provision on XXXX' for any of your services minus iwstack and you probably would have taken it the same way (iwstack probably not since 'provision' makes more sense there).

To mpkossen, the only reason that whole PM started was because Mao brought us into the middle of the BS with UGVPS.

Personally, I took way more offense to the fact you disrupted such an important discussion to bring up 2 year old bullshit that no one cares about. You have a thread where a staff member of the very owner of that community has committed fraud and the owner *probably* knew about it the entire time.

"Yeah man, even though *I left my wife and kids to bang some broad in Buffalo*, we still cool. She 100% knows what's going on and approves of all of it. Uh huh.".

It's a *well known fact* that I helped with the transfer of the site, not only from Linode but from LEA to Joel. I gave advice on ways to improve it as well as passed whatever knowledge I had from LEA that KuJoe and others needed.

EDIT - Check how many times BuyVM was posted that entire year. I can think of probably 2 times that I would have requested it: DDoS filtering came online and Buffalo was rolled out. We would have been posted for any votes we won but that doesn't count against the 30 day repeating. If anything, I did my best to give to that community and took very little.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

Aldryic C said:


> I've been handling most of this


And this is a different Aldryic. Are you sure you are not Francisco ? 

No, while I do not agree or believe everything you say as there are some contradictions this will never end if we do not compromise and is not helping any of us. The fact you are being reasonable, for the most part, and talk sense, for the most part, is enough for me to make big compromises at my end.

We have a saying, the tone makes the music when the artillery is fireing, the voice of reason and argumentation is silenced.


----------



## maounique

@Francisco: Huh ?

What are you talking about, what UGVPS ? How did I bring you there ? Might have been some poorly worded remark about LET and my ban that you took offense in ?

Please post it here and I will explain it.

May I remind you and everyone else that precisely due to poor handling of LE* vetting and unfair exposure of known crooks and multiple "blands" of same entities I left there ?

Of double standards and admins threatening people the same way it happened when BuyVM was king of the place ? Maybe not running it, though I will never be 100% convinced on that, but at least the dears of the community ?


----------



## DomainBop

Mao said:


> I only attacked buyvm for their network problem, *it's network is still average even poorer than many hosts which are consdered worse than you, Including CVPS *(the last time i checked), but it is still much-much better than the disastruos analogue modem speeds of the past.


I've never used BuyVM so I can't speak about their networks speeds but CVPS oversells everything to the extreme and while you might get some CVPS nodes with good or even above average network speeds you will also get some nodes that struggle to get above dialup speeds because the bandwidth is so oversold.

These test results are from a CVPS VPS in Buffalo I canceled last September due to network problems.  The tests were taken in September 2013.

(original posting of the results was on this thread: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/13384/chicagovps-https-billing-chicagovps-net-certificate-revoked



> wget freevps.us/downloads/bench.sh -O - -o /dev/null|bash
> 
> Download speed from CacheFly: 3.95MB/s
> 
> Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 1.87MB/s
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 1.03MB/s
> 
> Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 331KB/s
> 
> Download speed from i3d.net, NL: 695KB/s
> 
> Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 677KB/s
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 240KB/s
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 632KB/s
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 745KB/s
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 951KB/s
> 
> I/O speed : 73.6 MB/s


More test results from another CVPS VPS in Los Angeles which also suffered from abysmal network speeds.  Tests taken in July 2013. (original posting of results: http://lowendbox.com/blog/chicagovps-25year-512mb-kvm-vps-in-new-jersey-los-angeles/) .  These test results were taken after they supposedly fixed the network problem.



> wget freevps.us/downloads/bench.sh -O - -o /dev/null|bash
> CPU model : Intel® Xeon® CPU E3-1270 V2 @ 3.50GHz
> 
> 
> Number of cores : 1
> 
> 
> CPU frequency : 3500.017 MHz
> 
> 
> Total amount of ram : 256 MB
> 
> 
> Total amount of swap : 0 MB
> 
> 
> System uptime : 1 min,
> 
> 
> Download speed from CacheFly: 10.5MB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 1.29MB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 1.86MB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 514KB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from i3d.net, NL: 392KB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 391KB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 357KB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 2.24MB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 6.72MB/s
> 
> 
> Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 912KB/s
> 
> 
> I/O speed : 253 MB/s,


I also briefly had a CVPS VPS in Atlanta last March(?) when they first launched that location and the network was basically unusable for the first few weeks because the bandwidth was so oversold.  That problem was semi-fixed when they replaced their 100 Mbps switch with a  1Gbps switch  (Kevdam describing the problem: _"We apologize for the inconvenience that CVPS Atlanta customers may have witnessed the past few days, there was a bandwidth issue with CC in Atlanta because they were awaiting a switch replacement to come in."_)


----------



## maounique

Ah, yeah, well, it means I was lucky, it clearly depends on location and while I know they have many locations, only used one.


----------



## Francisco

Mao said:


> @Francisco: Huh ?
> 
> What are you talking about, what UGVPS ? How did I bring you there ? Might have been some poorly worded remark about LET and my ban that you took offense in ?
> 
> Please post it here and I will explain it.
> 
> May I remind you and everyone else that precisely due to poor handling of LE* vetting and unfair exposure of known crooks and multiple "blands" of same entities I left there ?
> 
> Of double standards and admins threatening people the same way it happened when BuyVM was king of the place ? Maybe not running it, though I will never be 100% convinced on that, but at least the dears of the community ?


Ugh I really don't want to go diving into LET threads.

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/409374/#Comment_409374

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/409588/#Comment_409588

Smack dab in the middle of the UGVPS thread. You dragged us into a fight that our name was never brought up in.

Now, it's possible you forgot all this because it was a freaking MASSIVE thread and you were quite active in it.

I didn't want to reply on that thread since I knew it would work to derail it. But, you forced my hand until I pushed it off to a PM.

EDIT - I'm done at fiberhub for the night so please give me about an hour to get home and shower. I'll stay up for a bit but past 1 - 2AM (2 - 3 hours from now) i'll be heading to bed so I can get a full days work in tomorrrow.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

Yes, but while I agree I compared your rule of LET with that of CC (which I was criticizing, btw, not giving them carte blanche and in the end go even more frustrated admitting I was wrong) there was nothing which could have linked you with UGVPS. I never said you had anything to do with that, but the UGVPS thread was also about how CC is running LET, so I compared them with you.

You say you never run it fine I dont really believe that, you should have had at least a big influence, but that is just my personal opinion, what had Salvatore to do with it ? All these things happened before I ever met him from 17th of march to 2nd of april (my ban) i was simply a customer and nothing before. We have a feud since then, me and you, not you and salvatore or me and salvatore against you. He never said anything other than he cannot censor me and I am free to express my opinions as I did before working for him. You do not like that and want to punish him and me for our relation ? Fine, just dont beat around the bush and do it. If you do not do it but speak about it, then that is the definition of threat and even blackmail, you will do something that will hurt someone in order to force the injured party to accept your demands (in this case me being fired).


----------



## Francisco

Read the posts in full. Read both links incase I linked them in the wrong order. You dragged it on about bandwidth and our 128MB's getting 500GB's. It wasn't just that you were making a comment that I ran the place or not. Where does that belong *anywhere* in that discussion?

At no point did I think you were so blind/dense to think I was tied into the UGVPS garbage.

Again, it was never a threat nor was it intended to be. If you read it as such, you should have been corrected within 5 minutes. While I have audited Solus' ~2011 code, that was for not only our own protection and to reverse their encryption on root passwords. I'm sure you can poke around on WHT to find that all.

Anyway, onto your next part. If you want to talk about 'harming someone else', then you're in the same boat. We've had convo's before where you've stated that you feel you're the key reason Aldryic stopped taking part in LET. While incorrect, you started your fight over here with possibly the same thought in mind.

No, He didn't leave because of you or anyone else besides me. I told him I wasn't liking where the community was going and the growing feeling that Joel was playing everyone for a damn fool was growing stronger. He agreed and backed off. The only times he has posted on there was when Kevdam "suddenly" got approved an account to try to start a fight with us as well.

Ald & I like to give our best to help communities grow (that's why I got 1200+ posts just to make sure i'm chipping in too). We were doing the same with LET but once we both had the same feeling of deception we decided to cut that off.

Others followed and now even you've done the same too. Maybe you'll go back over there if they stop doing the shit they do. Sadly, that'll stop around the time that CC stops selling to spammers.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

I only started the fighting here after you attacked me involving Prometeus and Salvatore. A couple of weeks later, that is. In this time I kept analyzing your "friendly advice" (if that was no threat, what was by your own definition ?) and kept reaching the same conclusing, that you are getting desperate and have no conservation instinct anymore. As such, needed to make the whole thing public so there will be no doubt who did it when you will.

Maybe I was wrong, but you were wrong too, so, apologise to the party which was not wrong (except that doesnt agree to force a gag on someone) and disclose the exploit doing a service to the community here.

Am I unreasonable ? If you think I am, OK, dont apologise explicitly just disclose the exploit, you should have done this before, as soon as you knew about it as a good netizen you claim to be.

That is the least you can do, if not for Salvatore, for the other people using Solus, let us see your good part again.


----------



## Coastercraze

Aldryic C said:


> Don't worry about him, Jack.  I remember who he is now.. the kid that got all shades of butthurt over my opinion, and despite the very clear declaration that is was my opinion alone, the kid decided to wage some kind of war against BuyVM as a whole, going as far as to invent ridiculous stories regarding the networking issues we had with EGI.  What's hilarious is, when presented with any form of truth he dislikes, he will simply fabricate new stories to believe in.
> 
> He was under some kind of impression that I had some kind of power at LET (go ask any mod ever about that, they'll laugh in your face), rather than realizing it was his own childish actions that brought any sort of repercussion down on him.  That'll never change, and we'll likely see the same cycle repeat itself here unless he finally grows up.


(me attempting to summarize - feel free to correct)

Aldryic's opinion regarding Tor along with his waiving of the banhammer on Mao (Mao thinks it was due to the networking issue posts) is why Mao is pissed off and somewhere along the line, after attacking BuyVM, Francisco said something stupid in regards to a potential SolusVM exploit at which it seemed that he was threatening said host by creating a VM on their network for what I don't know.

==================================

At any rate, sorry you got banned by Aldryic. He has his reasons for it and you have to admit, you probably went a little crazy and probably did deserve a little ban (not as long as what you've went for, but long enough to let you "cool off").

I do feel that you shouldn't have involved BuyVM or Francisco into it because of Aldryic's opinions on Tor. You need to accept the fact that Aldryic's opinion is simply his. You can't change that. Accept it and move on even if it seems wrong to you. You owe them an apology for acting the way you did. There was no reason for you to try and damage their reputation just because you disagreed with someone's opinion and how they run their business.

As for Fran, you too need to step up to the plate and apologize. Yes, he attacked your business and your staff first, but you didn't need to attack him or the company he worked for either. The comment you made was childish at best, regardless of whether or not you feel he deserved it. I'm sure it was the result of some heavyset emotions, and while I don't have all the posts in front of me, I think we can agree an apology would be ideal.

Lastly, if I'm not entirely off course, just forgive and move on. Best not to let things get to your head, let alone your egos. A simple apology can go a long way!


----------



## mpkossen

Aldryic C said:


> Funny that.. seeing as how you have no problems withholding an apology for a misunderstood slight.
> 
> 
> Of course... it is harder to man up when it's to the person you're rooting against, so I don't hold that against you.


Sorry  I was a bit sleepy this morning and I thought my "Thanks" would have been a good indication to you. Anyway, I appreciate your reply. My apologies for misinterpreting what you posted.

@Francisco: I don't really care who started the fight. Like I said, I'm not here to point fingers. I do care about someone who had nothing to do with this and who is about one of the nicest and most decent people in this industry getting dragged into this for no reason at all. You getting involved with Mao vs Aldryic is your own choice. Salvatore wasn't given that choice. That is why I still think you owe him an apology.

I know you don't like this fued against BuyVM and Mao going on about this. It's logical you want it to stop. I don't blame you. But again, Salvatore has had nothing to do with this.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Coastercraze said:


> Aldryic's opinion regarding Tor along with his waiving of the banhammer
> 
> At any rate, sorry you got banned by Aldryic.


I never banned anyone. Never at WHT, LET, or here have I had (or will I have) the power to do so.


----------



## maounique

@Coastercraze: It was not his opinion on Tor, it was his opinion on Tor operators that was an issue. Nobody likes to be called such with no proof (I proved he knows nothing about the subject or almost nothing, just propaganda and he admits it).

However, things changed, we have more information now and the subject is closed. I was merely bringing up a ban from the past to stop CC from making the same mistake, it is not like that ban solved anything, on the contrary, created a lot of problems for everyone not to mention bad blood.

Stifling opposition and free speech is not going to benefit anyone not LET, not CC, not the truth. I hope they will understand that and certain nioises from there show they are at least contemplating the idea.

It was meant as an example of how a mod/business owner/admin/whatever should not behave.

The only remaining issue now is the exploit that must be disclosed. I think that, while Francisco worked hard to go away from Solus and make own panel which should bring him a competitive advantage, it is not right to use the exploits he knows against his competitors. These kinds of things breed paranoia, if you check the timing of localhost.re disclosures, it coincides perfectly with the big fanfare around stallion 2. Nobody would have thought of that before Francisco came out waging the exploit threat against a competitor.

Now I am sure that is not the case, but, as you can see these actions do not bring peace in the field but are likely to create more bad blood where the old one was almost done.

In the end, things are as they are. I now work for Prometeus (which I didnt when i was banned), Francisco or anyone else I think wont be able to threaten or blackmail salvatore into kicking me, I have no time nor energy to continue to chase BuyVM as Aldryic seems a different person unlikely to start the name-calling campaigns of the past.

I also admit I went a bit too far, initially I didnt plan to involve BuyVM but the nature of the proof was such that I had to prove they have bad network in order to complete the demonstration that their claims against Tor Operators are false with a different motivation than just righteousness and defense against child abusers, drug-dealers and terrorists.

This was a long string of mistakes on all sides. I am sorry for my part, I am sure Aldryic also wishes he would have handled it differently at least this is how I see it now. He even said it n the open.

It was, indeed, a lot of ego, nobody can deny that, but it is over. Almost.


----------



## Francisco

There *is* no exploit, though! Any exploits or problem points got patched a long time ago. Read again what I wrote: "This is no threat". As I said, if they "read" it as that, that's their fault.

You need to understand something here, "blackhat" all comes off as crazy crap that I can't wrap my head around. Sure, some basic eval($_POST['ohshit']) or things like Solus' exec($_POST['thisissafe'])? That's dumb shit that is entirely on them.

I'm not smart enough to think up a way to abuse CURL + PHP's bootup timings to bruteforce how fields are encoded and sent in a request.

I long ago went to war with Solus over their shit but most people assumed I was *full* of shit.

I'm sure there's still quirks in Solus but I've not bothered decub'ing their code since we last used them.

Again, if you want to say that I used this imaginary exploit on Prom then you need to first inform the authorities.

I'm not going to let you go on a roundabout on this trying to sucker an apology for something that doesn't exist (in my hands at least), nor ever did since earlier this year.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

OK there is no exploit then how would you provision yourself a VM on "our" solusvm ? I am just curious do you have an admin account ? Do you have one in whmcs or hostbill to send commands to solus ? I am really curious how can this be done without an exploit, in such a way that can leave me jobless.

Aldryic could be right, it should be an ETL problem (second language was french, I am old enough to catch the last wave).


----------



## Francisco

Mao said:


> OK there is no exploit then how would you provision yourself a VM on "our" solusvm ?


....Order a service off your WHMCS? It's 3 minutes of work to place an order w/ paypal.



> I am just curious do you have an admin account ? Do you have one in whmcs or hostbill to send commands to solus ? I am really curious how can this be done without an exploit, in such a way that can leave me jobless.
> 
> Aldryic could be right, it should be an ETL problem (second language was french, I am old enough to catch the last wave).


ETL? I'm not sure if that's supposed to be LET or if you mean "ESL" (English Second Language).


----------



## scv

Maybe English Third Language?


----------



## drmike

Mao said:


> BuyVM is sinking without my help. When they started this trying to prove their network is stellar and there is only the moral motivation they call people names for, they were at their height, the zenith, 90% of LET firmly believed they have a legendary quality, every second thread was hijacked for praising BuyVM, were out of stock permanently.
> 
> Then Aldryic decided to go in a shit throwing campaign... The rest is history. They are now out of 2 more datacenters (not that they had none before EGI, every DC was rotten), Joel screwed them up big time (but, again who is to blame, who handed him the keys to give an air of legitimity to their shilling ?).
> 
> They are now attacking their competition trying blackmail with hacking threats. While everyone considers that is a legitimate course of action in revenge to my proofs that their network sucks, it is not so and many people will realise that after he will put it in practice. I am sure Prometeus will not press charges for the blackmail, but after he will do the actual damage, we will have another chapter in this saga.
> 
> Everyone should note I offered an elegant exit, they will appologise to the third party and do a service to the community by disclosing the exploit. They want to go on and use it, fine, even if we will suffer, that guy must be stopped somehow so he can no longer threaten anyone. He doesnt have anything to gain from it, the people hurt by the exploit wont run to BuyVM, nor will Salvatore fire me, he will do it just to prove he can be an ass which we already know by now.


Geez Mao, just geez!

"BuyVM is sinking" --- I don't think they are.   They are doing better than probably ever.  Ignore their stock control and the jokes around that.  Fact is NJ has been strong for them - great facility at Choopa/Reliable.  Plus note their big investment in SSDs, storage nodes, etc.

"90% of LET firmly believed they have a legendary quality" --- ehh maybe in years past.  Buy got slapped for being so long in Cali with subpar throttled to death network.  I know because I was there and smacked by it and not thrilled.  LET is more rounded with other providers who have stepped up their quality a bit compared to years past.   Time and practice for some, others are new to the industry/new companies offering.

"They are now attacking their competition trying blackmail with hacking threats."   - not quite.

I read the messages before they were made public.   Fran threw a sharp funny poke your way with room for it to be read as a threat or a kick in the scrotum to Solus.   I'll 100000% put my faith behind Fran and Buy to not engage in such.  Likewise, I'd put just as much in Prometeus to not do the same or turn this into some oddness around that jab.

Fact is, Prometeus wasn't hacked and Fran didn't mean such to be inflated like this.   

"not press charges for the blackmail"  --- no ONE NO ONE NO ONE is blackmailing anyone.   Bad idea and get it out of your brain now before it grows in size.  

"Aldryic decided to go in a shit throwing campaign"  -  Fuck Ald.  That guy isn't someone I want to be debating with on wishy washy stuff. Odds are he spent some time not on the debate team but in some gov ops program being taught to make normal folks feel less than worthy.  I  like and respect Ald, but he can pour some words out that leave you feeling beat up at times.  

"do a service to the community by disclosing the exploit."  --- if there is some exploit and there are bound to be 100 more for Solus, Fran isn't the person to ask until after the damage happened and people start talking/asking about the exploit.  Fran is a friend to many providers in this industry.  That's where and why he shows up often early to the fire scenes.  Calling him the arsonist, well, look, he isn't it.   

[quoute], was LET really such a shit-hole in the past that someone who is simply annoying would be banned?


----------



## maounique

Francisco said:


> ....Order a service off your WHMCS? It's 3 minutes of work to place an order w/ paypal.
> 
> 
> ETL? I'm not sure if that's supposed to be LET or if you mean "ESL" (English Second Language).


Hum, you probably didnt read but I already disproved that theory. I will do it again:

1. We do not have (unless Salvatore changed something from last time I checked) autoprovisoned products because we had a serial spammer and we needed to scrutinise the order. So, no, you cannot provision even indirectly, the provisioning is done by us.

2. How would that make Sal reconsider my employment ? As I said, he should give me a bonus for finally nailing down that customer I was after for 18 months.

English as the Third Language  Second was French if we do not consider Armenian which I never knew well enough to count.


----------



## drmike

Fncking Ald and Fran,  I know you guys pulled the server plug when I hit submit.   Not wanting my next response on this thread... Oh yeah...


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Francisco said:


> ETL? I'm not sure if that's supposed to be LET or if you mean "ESL" (English Second Language).


Third language suh, like me.



drmike said:


> Fncking Ald and Fran, I know you guys pulled the server plug when I hit submit. Not wanting my next response on this thread... Oh yeah...


Power cable failure  More details at


----------



## Nick_A

Sorry if this has been handled already, but is someone accusing the BuyVM guys of running localhost.re?


----------



## Virtovo

Nick_A said:


> Sorry if this has been handled already, but is someone accusing the BuyVM guys of running localhost.re?


It was hinted at by Mao; however totally baseless


----------



## perennate

Nick_A said:


> Sorry if this has been handled already, but is someone accusing the BuyVM guys of running localhost.re?


Makes sense, because BuyVM doesn't use WHMCS.


----------



## Francisco

Virtovo said:


> It was hinted at by Mao; however totally baseless


I'm not a C guy. I've done a little bit but it usually ends in a big, fat, segfault and I end up bugging people in #frantech for help. I used to do a lot more testing/dev when I worked with one of the OVZ guys directly, but even then it was nothing too insane (usually ksplices, etc).

I take the thought that I'm skilled enough to spot such an attack vector but the localhost guy's at a whole other level.

Anyway, as for Mao's original comment:

Why does the 2 things you're freaking out about have to be instant action? What I mean by this is....If I wanted to stir the pot about IPV6 (or whatever random crap I can think of) why does it have to provision *now*? Why couldn't I stir the pot over a period of 2 years like you do? What's an afternoon waiting on verification/etc if the total goal is to make your/Sal's life hell for 2 years?

Same goes with the employment comment. Take Sal and put him into my shoes. Imagine if he had someone like you slagging at him for 2 years for crap that was admitted to, rectified, and later proven to not be our fault, yet still digging at it every chance possible? Trust me, the idea of 'God dammit, I didnt hire you for this' would cross his mind.

You go on about 'hurting prometeus', etc, but you seem to ignore the fact that you try to throw us under the bus every chance you get, even in the most inappropriate of times.

I'm going back to node installs so excuse the late replies.

Francisco


----------



## Nick_A

I thought everyone knew who it was already... Definitely not BuyVM.


----------



## Francisco

perennate said:


> Makes sense, because BuyVM doesn't use WHMCS.


Except we do if you checked my.frantech.ca 

Replacing WHMCS is on the menu for this year but we're no where close to an ETA.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas

Francisco said:


> Except we do if you checked my.frantech.ca


Go back to your nodes boss, you're not picking up on the sarcasm   "localhost.re picks on WHMCS, so if it were BuyVM they wouldn't use WHMCS", etc etc :3


----------



## Coastercraze

Aldryic C said:


> I never banned anyone. Never at WHT, LET, or here have I had (or will I have) the power to do so.


Thanks for the clarification.

Mao, you need to realize that your theories don't add up all the way. Yes, BuyVM has changed drastically over the past few years and for the better in my mind. I really hope you let things go and I'm sure Fran will do the same. They're human too, afterall.


----------



## Virtovo

Nick_A said:


> I thought everyone knew who it was already... Definitely not BuyVM.


Oh?  Not everyone.


----------



## MartinD

15 pages?


Actual wtflol.


----------



## Erawan

I'm tired reading all of those loooong posts.

Maybe it should ended here, or one more page, with each apology.


----------



## maounique

I never "hinted" he is the localhost.re guy, just have shown what is a really wild goose theory, not one that Francisco COULD know about a solus exploit, that is really possible and probable.

And, nope, I wasnt attacking BuyVM for 2 years, first of all, I only started to reply Aldryic's s**t about Tor operators in february it took some time before it occured to me there should be some different motivation for the attack than just hate for anonymity and free speech. I probably started sometimes mid-march, after I already had a lot of clues. After my ban there was a pause of some 1 months+, maybe2 I dont remember, until I was unbanned. I never evaded ban, never had another alias.

Then it was random, now and then. Note I never attacked them for the disastruos move, for the failure to get redundant PSUs I kept saying they will come back. In many other places where they were attaced I didnt join the chorus, but, yeah, I kept going about the ban and the reasons for it. I do not admit such behaviour from anyone and intended to prove that tactic cannot be used to silence me and will be going on about the ban reasons forever.

It is now the first time I get a somewhat convincing story about who (didnt) ban me and I am making a peace offer. This does not mean I will agree with Fracisco's attack it was uncalled for and against a third party. His theory about provisioning himself a VM by buying with paypal has been already demolished, his responses to salvatore show he had something completely different in mind. Just go back and check, is that the reaction of someone who is legit ? He kept the pressure on to him to fire me, even recently he said he had the right to do it because Salvatore was far from kicking me therefore he was supporting me in the attacks against BuyVM.

No, people, that story is not convincing from all points of view. If Francisco is not disclosing the exploit, I will consider he is still threatenng his competition (we are not his competition, we operate in a different market, the VPSes in US were just a test for the DC if they are fit for iwstack and mostly failed while BuyVM does not have a similar product) and that is not acceptable.


----------



## Francisco

There is no exploit, though. I've already said that and you can read things however you want. Past the 2 old ones that were patched.

At the end of the day i'm going to just stop replying to this thread because you're just bouncing back & forth off the same thing over and over and over and over.

We moved from EGI last year and we argued with EGI for at least 8 months before we left. Maybe it isn't 2 years but it's at least 1 1/2 years.

That's still a *long* time.

I think i'm going to just make up some BS disclosure for you, maybe that'd make you feel better.

Francisco


----------



## maounique

I agree it is a long time, but you must also admit I never took advantage of other problems you had to attack you. If I were bent on BuyVM attacking do you think I would have missed countless other opportunities ? If you go back you will see I always said buyvm is a solid operation unlike most on LEB/LET and you will get better. So, yeah I was going on about the ban reasons and the Tor ban reasons, and the Aldryic attacks, but if I were to attack BuyVM per se, you can be sure I would have exploited ALL the opportunities, never say you are good, etc. Just check the replies from the moving fiasco time, from the power failure times does that look like the words of someone who wants to attack BuyVM into the ground ??? No, my beef was with aldryic and my banning, it should be obvious for everyone who is not biased.

That is why I do not understand your attack on Salvatore I really dont, if there is no exploit, then you owe him an apology.


----------



## texteditor

Mao said:


> I only started to reply Aldryic's s**t about Tor operators in february it took some time before it occured to me there should be some different motivation for the attack than just hate for anonymity and free speech.


Two things:

1) Aldryic was/is right, only deluded idealists think Tor is used as a legitimate free speech tool

2) Don't paint him as someone who has 'hate for anonymity and free speech' when you wrongly conflate anonymity with free speech (and Tor usage with both) when anonymity is nearly always detrimental to the concept of free speech and dissidence.


----------



## bzImage

Mao's unending rant about how Pony was mean to him always reminds me of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zail7Gdqro#t=77


----------



## maounique

texteditor said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) Aldryic was/is right, only deluded idealists think Tor is used as a legitimate free speech tool
> 
> 2) Don't paint him as someone who has 'hate for anonymity and free speech' when you wrongly conflate anonymity with free speech (and Tor usage with both) when anonymity is nearly always detrimental to the concept of free speech and dissidence.


That is a completely different topic but you are very wrong there. Only anonymous people can post free otherwise their bosses at least will get some word. See Jarland attacks against Prometeus for me expressing political views. If you need ore explanations on these themes and more examples, open a different topic.


----------



## texteditor

Mao said:


> Only anonymous people can post free


The words of anonymous people carry no weight though


----------



## maounique

texteditor said:


> The words of anonymous people carry no weight though


Hence they should never be banned, right ? Nobody could say then it is affecting their business.


----------



## DomainBop

texteditor said:


> The words of anonymous people carry no weight though


40 years ago the words of an anonymous person named Deep Throat helped bring down the presidency of Tricky Dick. 

If the anonymous person is a whistleblower or informant then their message does carry weight if they can back up their words with  facts and documents. The identity of the whistleblower or informant is often irrelevant because they are merely messengers helping bring the truth (in the form of facts and documents that expose a crime, corruption, etc.) to the public.



> anonymity is nearly always detrimental to the concept of free speech and dissidence.


Journalists fight to protect their sources for a reason.  There are many times when anonymity is the only way to safely get a message out, or for dissidents to expose the wrong doings of those in power.


----------



## texteditor

DomainBop said:


> If the anonymous person is a whistleblower or informant then their message does carry weight if they can back up their words with  facts and documents,



Right, but the trade-off for providing proof for their messages involves giving up at least some anonymity.

It's not like Deep Throat was completely anonymous, since Bob Woodward knew his identity and even called him at home.


----------



## maounique

I am not completely anonymous either, with a proper warrant, everyone can find out who I am. It is the anonymity against the people in power and people you depend on that matters. For example, lets give the example of Jarland again, if I had a shop in US and expressed those views, he would have had his church people with baners in front of it denouncing the satanists inside that give the red white and blue a black eye. If I wasnt the owner, the real one would really fire me to prove he is a god-fearing true blooded american standing for god and freedom against the evil.

You cannot be free without anonimity, they will get to you, right now the judiciary is all that stands in their way, when warrants will be given without asking questions (and that is close, really close, just blackmail a few judges, some are already in their field) there will be no coice but going underground.


----------



## Nick_A

lol


----------



## Amitz

Nick_A said:


> lol


And who runs localhost.re now?


----------



## maounique

Error 522 Ray ID: e82f414651f075b

Connection timed out
Looks like a faulty power cable.


----------



## MannDude

Mao said:


> Error 522 Ray ID: e82f414651f075b Connection timed out
> Looks like a faulty power cable.


Where was this error seen?


----------



## Magiobiwan

If you try to connect to localhost.re it gives you a Cloudflare error like that.


----------



## MannDude

Magiobiwan said:


> If you try to connect to localhost.re it gives you a Cloudflare error like that.


Ah, okay. Gotcha.

So is both parties now at an understanding?

Mao, do you understand now where they were coming from? Fran/Aldy, do you now understand where Mao is coming from? I don't care if you agree with each other, that's not what I asked, but is this public disagreement over yet?


----------



## maounique

From my side it is over as long as Aldryic no longer calls names and makes global judgements, regarding Francisco, not yet, he implicated Salvatore which had nothing to do with it, except he didnt agree to fire me at his "kind request" (since he doesnt agree it was blackmail). In fact all this installment is the result of that. I may understand the rest, but this is not understandable, we are going again over the freedom of speech thing, the ban didnt silence Mao, in fact made things worse and now we try to silence Mao like that ? Then what difference it is between religion and BuyVM ? Who does not agree with us must die of hunger ? Not that this is the case, but it seems they at least thought so. Francisco thought he can silence me by making Salvatore fire me.

When that didnt work he started to attack him too because he somehow supports me ? How can this be, if you do not fire people for their views, does that mean you support those views ? Hello ?

I can agree with attacks (as long as they are against me, not a whole category of people), I can even understand the reasons, but I will never understand the attacks against the freedom of speech.

BuyvM doesnt like my views. They deny they ever had an issue and it was my craziness and all those people posting speedtests were also in league with me, they deny they banned me or contributed somehow to it, fine, I do not agree this is how it happened but, anyway that was a long time ago, I merely pointed it out to prevent others from making the same mistakes and we can go past that. But the attempt to silence me again through other means plainly proves my point, not to mention the way Salvatore was treated in all this.

So, it is not over before Francisco apologises at least to Salvatore. I couldnt care less for my part.


----------



## telephone

MannDude said:


> So is both parties now at an understanding?
> 
> 
> Mao, do you understand now where they were coming from? Fran/Aldy, do you now understand where Mao is coming from? I don't care if you agree with each other, that's not what I asked, but is this public disagreement over yet?


Not until I stir the pot one last time opcorn:



Mao said:


> From my side it is over as long as Aldryic no longer calls names and makes global judgements, regarding Francisco, not yet, he implicated Salvatore which had nothing to do with it, except he didnt agree to fire me at his "kind request" (since he doesnt agree it was blackmail). In fact all this installment is the result of that. I may understand the rest, but this is not understandable, we are going again over the freedom of speech thing, the ban didnt silence Mao, in fact made things worse and now we try to silence Mao like that ? Then what difference it is between religion and BuyVM ? Who does not agree with us must die of hunger ? Not that this is the case, but it seems they at least thought so. Francisco thought he can silence me by making Salvatore fire me.
> 
> 
> When that didnt work he started to attack him too because he somehow supports me ? How can this be, if you do not fire people for their views, does that mean you support those views ? Hello ?
> 
> 
> I can agree with attacks (as long as they are against me, not a whole category of people), I can even understand the reasons, but I will never understand the attacks against the freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> BuyvM doesnt like my views. They deny they ever had an issue and it was my craziness and all those people posting speedtests were also in league with me, they deny they banned me or contributed somehow to it, fine, I do not agree this is how it happened but, anyway that was a long time ago, I merely pointed it out to prevent others from making the same mistakes and we can go past that. But the attempt to silence me again through other means plainly proves my point, not to mention the way Salvatore was treated in all this.
> 
> 
> So, it is not over before Francisco apologises at least to Salvatore. I couldnt care less for my part.


*1)* "he implicated Salvatore which had nothing to do with it"


In a sense you did the same thing. Your "beef" was with Aldyric, yet you pursued this matter sooo much that Fran finally snapped... You've been publicly defacing BuyVM for over a year, and you expect things to be just peachy?

*2)* I could implicate both Aldryic and yourself, but since you started this, I'm going to pin it on you


I've concluded from your relentless posting that you've posted at least a few of these comments while on the clock. By that deduction alone, Sal (your employer) should be involved... In any other industry you would have been sent to the HR department for abusive comments and public defacing while at work.


^ Even off work... The HR department never sleeps!

*3)* "In fact all this instalment is the result of that"


Bull. This is the same argument from over a year ago that you've continued. That comment just gave you more "fuel" to pursue BuyVM. Even without Fran intervening, you still would have posted 10+ pages of pissing and moaning.


What happens if Sal gets an apology, will you just let this go? NOPE... You'll let it die for now, but the next chance you get you'll make some snide remark about BuyVM.

*4)* Supposed "hacking" comment


I should have clarified this in my previous post, but how I took Fran's comment was that he threatened to provision a VM so he could piss and moan for years about your VM's like you've done about his:


E.g. "My VM's load spiked at 12am... YOU MUST BE OVERLOADING YOUR NODES!!!"


E.g. "I'm only getting 50 MB/s DD tests... YOU MUST BE OVERLOADING YOUR NODES!!!"


E.g. "Only 1 MB/s to China... YOUR NETWORK IS SHIT!!!"


On the same note, just because someone has intimate knowledge about a subject doesn't mean you should assume the worst:

E.g. "My next door neighbor is an Iranian engineer... He must be making bombs for terrorists".

*5)*

​ ​ ​*See y'all next year at the annual Mao vs BuyVM get-together*


----------



## maounique

I admitted I should have not implicated BuyVM, but how to show their network is overloaded and this is why Aldryic throws shit on some people ? It took me while to pinpoint the problem. They dont agree and say their problem started then because the DC suddenly oversells the traffic. I made my case, they made theirs everyone know by now the data, they drawn own conclusions. It is not that I didnt give time and a lot of data to aldryic before I concluded he does not want to protect the bsiness from complaints due exit nodes, but in fact to have a pretext to ban it altogether that I started to look at their issue. He never admitted the problem, therefore I had to continue to prove it, he had a lot of fans that were used to throw mud, it was something crazy from my part but this is why freespeech is important so minority opinions can be voiced not only the opinions of the majority. At the end the proof was done, but I was still banned which created a whole new problem.

I mentioned the issue on LET only as an example on how NOT to handle things. Francisco had probably a bad day and started to threaten me and Prometeus in order to silence me. That, of course, needed another response. See the pattern ?

The issue was dead, I was only mentioning it in the new context at LET where I felt things are going in the same direction. They do ban people for fabricated reasons, ban evasion my ass, if that was the reason, they would have not banned him after many pages, but after the first post and delete the thread if that was the reason, but they hoped he didnt have the proof or it was weak enough to be swept under the carpet. That is just an example.

Nope, It was not against BuyVM, it was against CC, but Francisco insisted to try to silence me, even tho I warned him those threats are recorded, he kept going on and then when salvatore asked for explanations he attacked him too for not giving in to his demands.

You would have just let it go if Francisco was threatening your boss to fire you ? I dont think so.

And we should remember that I didnt have a VM with them at the time, it was maybe a year since I dropped it due to the same network issues, I even forgot about it since I had 100 or so providers in the past and BuyVM didnt seem stellar at all, just good and cheap, but I needed the network so there was no choice. He didnt need to "provision himself" anything, I used only Aldryic's arguments and the facts posted by other people in the campaign to prove they have a network issue.

Now, I dont say he should have done the same to keep the field leveled, it wil not be possible to replicate those conditions, I have no say in how LET is run, jon is not my friend I help because is incompetent, I even suspect he hates me, nor do I have 50 faithful people which will never read his arguments, just post memes against him and call him names. He had all the conditions to break me but didnt manage because there was indeed a network problem it just took a long time before people started the tests and comparisons.

I am not on the clock. Everyone knows this is not a 9-5 job, so the argument is moot.

Trust me I dont have the time, energy and motivation to continue this. I was forced because it needed to be public before he actually does it so there will be no doubt who hacked it. The threat looked very credible coming from someone who had a lot of experience with solus. Ittooke me 2 weeks to analyse the issue and decide I have no choice but to go public with it

And, btw, why did he mention solus in particular ? "I will provision myself a VM later so I can start s**t" would have been still off-key, he could have said something along the line "I will buy a vm from you so I have something to pick on". This is how I would have said it, and I am absolutely fine with that, he can do that, he has the right, I never denied this. I know Prometeus is not perfect, having someone after us to pick on all the things would have been a motivation to improve things and a lot of free publicity, so, that is OK, I said, bring it on, hacking solus is not. Aldryic maintained all the time he will refuse service to me even tho I had no intention to buy anything to get framed with something, I will not use the ToS provision we cna refuse service to anyone to deny service to him, as long as he abides by the rules everything is fine.

I didnt assume the worst only after he threatened Prometeus with it. If your next door Iranian Engineer is having a big portrait with bin laden in his living room i think you should be concerned.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

=== Notice: Moderator Hat is Off ===

Ok... I've been reading this entire post from back at Page 10 (last time I read this).

Mao, I respect you and your opinions and I would fight for your right to post (like rest of us have said before, there's no reason for us or anyone to ban you because you're not going around using stolen credit cards or doing anything illegal). Almost everything I've wanted to say has already been said before (therefore I will not be re-iterating it in here).

I also have the highest respect for Fran, Aldryic, Salvador (Sorry I'll stop mentioning you after this post, you're not really involved in this!), and YOU.

Now. I'm trying to say this in a more constructive manner.

Your remaining arguments seem to be focused on the following points:

- The "Hacking" Contact

- Involvement/Dragging of Prometeus (Brand) into the mix

In Terms of the "Hacking" Comment:

Not everyone keeps track of what another company does. Prometeus is one of the companies I have the most services with and I didn't even know you had manual provisioning! Even if you've mentioned manual provisioning I probably only retained it for a short time (then forgot it). Now, yes this more catered to my own experience but maybe many people were unaware to manual provisioning.

Involvement/Dragging Prometeus into the Argument:

If what Fran states is true (and I will admit I trust him in addition to trusting you), then yeah 2 years of someone breathing down your neck does get irritating after a while. Granted yes he reacted poorly but we do have to hand it to him for keeping it together for an entire two years to begin with. It may not be your intent... Let me rephrase that. It was *not* your intent to affect anyone else but Aldryic, but you just didn't realize your actions had collateral damages.

In addition, when someone brings up a failure/mistake by another brand constantly, it does get frustrating for the brand owner/managers/anyone related to it because you're bringing up a possible memory that might pain them, or something they'd prefer not to be aired frequently. And yet you claim that you're using this for "education" purposes? Come on man. I see the picture you're painting, but you're failing to address the points that you seemed to have missed the extent of collateral damage. I've read Fran's response to your comments and I agree yes while Fran does seem to act dickish it never specifically states there is a Solus Exploit or any malicious intent directed at your web interface. Now was there malicious intent directed at you? Yes. Maybe by using the automatic provisioning (assumption here, the manual provisioning crowd is in the minority here so maybe they didn't know you had manual provisioning) he was going to purchase a service from you and then comment on how horrible it is/was. "During my short time with ____...". That's the only actual logical course I can obtain from that comment.

*Edit in this paragraph:* It seems I didn't add anything about how Prometeus the brand got dragged into it. Well, what I meant to convey was that you constantly mentioned BuyVM this, BuyVM that (e.g. BuyVM's bandwidth ___) as an attempt to irritate Aldryic. I know an eye for an eye is not a good policy to go by, but it was matter of time (with this continuing) that it'd end up that way.

While we're on the topic of proof (or somewhat near it), I think Mao your definition/criteria of the proof is different from many other individual's definition/criteria for proof. The only actual creditable source of "proof" I've observed were the screenshots of the PMs which I believe everyone else has accepted as how the actual exchange of communication happened between you two. But, what I don't consider proof is how you've been basing several claims off of it. Basically saying "I've built up my credibility through this, so now ____ is also proof because I said it.". I could be incorrect and may have misunderstood what you were saying, but that's how I felt.

This puts me at an awkward place because both parties did have their issues, but from the way I see it and the way I can relate to everything it just seems like you finally pushed a bit too hard.

Also, *this is to everyone*.

I've told you all to keep all the LEB/LET bullshit at the door when we all first constructed this community. Obviously we've re-established similar opinions on certain entities and on certain organizations. But really, this is one of the few times I'll stress this. Please leave all your LEB/LET hates and woes at the door (for those of you joining us). Start with a clean slate. Recreate your opinions from the information presented from here on out. We don't want the LEB/LET drama crap here.

Also, mkpossen has all the right to be here. Yes he's affiliated with CC and LEB/LET. But he's not an individual with malicious intent. Yes I disagree with some of his work on LEB/LET, but there's no reason to bring that over here when he's being an individual giving his own two cents.

Now yes, I am biased. I try to be as neutral as I can be and but there will be a little bit of biased here and there regardless (no-one can truly be 100% unbiased).

No-one is going to ban anyone. No-one is trying to censor anyone (except script kiddies and spam). I understand several people may say it and not really care too much about it, but as one of the guys on the other side of the fence I can say I do feel a bit sensitive (and defensive) when people say we're trying to screw with other people. We work hard (may not seem like it, but seriously) to be as fair and as reasonable as we can. And hell to help the community as much as we can. Creating such accusations like that just makes our stomach churn. Same could be said about your companies as well. So come on guys, is this really how you want to go about it?

I've bashed LEB/LET a little in my thread here, and after saying that Yeah... I'm pretty hypocritical. I apologize for that.

Anyways, I'm probably not going to read this thread anymore. If I do well.... then... I guess I got sucked back into it. PLEASE PLEASE be friendly to each other and lets not make an even bigger fuss over this than it already is. Anyways have a good day guys 

-Pie

*tldr:* I shoot monkeys out of my ass and eat ice cream. Just read the paragraph after "this is for everyone".


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## Aldryic C'boas

Why am I still being dragged into this shit?  Starting to get tired of giving full explanations, and still seeing the same BS being slung around. "Ald being mean, Ald talking trash, Ald calling names"
 
You folks have never truly seen me on the offensive.  One of my favourite bits so far in this thread:
 



drmike said:


> "Aldryic decided to go in a shit throwing campaign" - Fuck Ald. That guy isn't someone I want to be debating with on wishy washy stuff. Odds are he spent some time not on the debate team but in some gov ops program being taught to make normal folks feel less than worthy. I like and respect Ald, but he can pour some words out that leave you feeling beat up at times.


As BTO once put it, _you ain't seen nothing yet_.  Keep dragging me into this mess and I'm going to assume that we didn't just put our mutual issues to rest a couple pages ago.


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## SrsX

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I understand from this drama:

Mao's butt is sore.

Aldryic is being a good Pony and defending his company (w/ Francisco sometimes posting in the thread)

Aldryic and Francisco have proof to backup their statements, where Mao does not.

Mao keeps pulling stuff out of his ass, and sometimes brings stuff up from years ago, which *are most likely fixed today*.


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## maounique

You seem to base your entire pro-buyvm theory on the fact that Francisco did not explicitly say "I will hack your solusvm".

You also avoid the context. He explictly threatens me (Sal wil reconsider your employment) and he says he will do something that will prove that peace of mind is worth more than having me working for him.

You also "forget" that everyone knows he has extensive solus knowledge he blended parts in his own creation. He also spoke many times about the security holes and claims hs product is immune while now says he is not so smart to be able to create the kind of timed attacks which the localhost.re guy did. Then, how can he be sure his product is safer ? Just because people dont know his code ?

No, everything must be viewed in context.

Did he have the means ? I think yes.

Did he have the opportunity ? Our solus is hiding in plain sight.

Did he have the motivation ? Hell, YES !

What he didnt have is the right. I know it is hard to fight an individual as a company, but he caln certainly press charges if he can prove my allegations were false and they never had a network problem at the time, it is all a fabrication. With the proper warrant he will be able to find out who I am. It is hard, i know, involves proving something wasnt there when everyone knows it was thanks to my efforts. However, there is no excuse going against prometeus, not this way, not with threats, not trying to make Salvatore kick me. Hell, nobody understands in US that personal opinions should have nothing to do with how your performance at work is valued ? I know you guys are used with people sacked and are whole religious and ethnic pressure groups that make this almost a certainty, but in Europe this is much more infrequent. you should not imagine that if Jarland says Prometeus is anti-semitic or promotes terrorism, this is actually so, or Francisco can pressure a company into sacking someone.

Everything happened BEFORE I joined Prometeus. Either way, I will have to continue now to prove that silencing someone using this method doesnt work all the time same as the banning didnt, there is a risk involved that it will backfire. That even if we consider he didnt actually want to hack Solus to teach a lesson.

So, yes, he didnt say I will hack your solus with an exploit I know, nor are the gangstears and extorsionists say they will beat you up or kill you, they mention accidents and falling does that mean they didnt want to do it ?

Why mention Solus in particular ? He wouldnt go to order in Solus right ? It was either in WHMCS or HostBill. I let aside the fact we have manual provisioning BUT we do have many products that do not use solus, including VPSes, not only iwstack, but also cloudmin. Why Solus in particular ? Would that offer worse performance in the VM so he has reasons to moan ? Also the product does not mention IPv6 if he was going to Dallas but we do have it. Why would he moan then for ? For offering more than we advertise ? And also why would Salvatore kick me for getting him a new customer ?

You see, it doesnt make any sense if we do NOT involve hacking, all his threats would have been pointless, not to mention the free publicity he would do picking on us on every thread (I would have loved that, actually, I did a lot of BuyVM publicity it would be nice if they return the favour).

I am sorry, but your (and his, I wonder, doesnt he support this forum too ?) idea has no logic if we exclude hacking, no matter how you spin and twist it.

I did warn him that I will keep the evidence told him the threats are recorded and he said there are no threats. Indeed he was just meaning that Salvatore will give me a bonus as a result of his actions (might have happened, the sales, even without his vm, would have raised and also public exposure, making every thread on LET a Prometeus one, but that was clearly not his intent).

OK, let's say that didnt happen. Salvatore came here and extended his hand, but he also said clearly he wont kick me bcause Francisco demands it, which threw him in a rage and said Salvatore has the same views since he doesnt do what was demanded from him.

Evenwithout the hacking, even if we consider his version you are explaining here again after i rejected it with arguments a few times as being true, this still doesnt give him the right to make such demands. If I work at Google and I ridicule Microsoft for their crazy campaign and Bill Gates calls my boss asking to sack me, will he do it ? Even if i started said campaign as an independent blogger months before I joined Google ?

I have the right to criticize BuyVM and anyone else for that matter. Would I have done it if I was working at prometeus when they started the Tor shit ? Absolutely not. I never attacked any other provider neither did I do it before, but I never dreamt to be given such an opportunity at that time, I didnt even know about Prometeus when Aldryic started all this. But this does not mean BuyVM or anyone else is perfect. I still have the right to do it, might not be nice especially since it was for something in the (far) past, but my intention was never to attack them now was only to show that cc is about to make similar mistakes mistakes they criticized before.

That was all, if i am mentioning historical events does that mean I am criticizing someone ? No I had no intention to start anything again. maybe I cannot prove that same, some people will never accept Francisco didnt have the right to threaten prometeus but we are free to express opinions still ? I proved they had a network problem, they say it wasnt so, should anyone be banned for this ? Especially when people really breaking the wrtten rules are not ?

Even more so should anyone be fired because has an opinion which was different from the one of their boss ? Not that now Francisco didnt manage to convince Salvatore I was right the whole time, or anything, but employers should not force their opinions on the employees, nor hire them according to such criteria.

TL;DR Your theory does not hold water I can bring even more arguments if I analyse the text.

Even if no hacking was involved Francisco had no right to make such demands to Salvatore and on such a tone.


----------



## MartinD

Seriously - this bullshit is still going on?


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## maounique

Unfortunately


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## MartinD

Mao said:


> Unfortunately


You could always... ya know, move on with your life?


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## MannDude

Yeah, there are several times where I wanted to lock the thread because it's more of a personal dispute between some individuals than anything that needs to be dragged out publicly... but whatever. Everyone is being civil, even if there has been no new info since page 3, haha.


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## Kruno

MartinD said:


> You could always... ya know, move on with your life?


Or he could fill another 10 pages with exactly same re-phased shit as he's been doing since page 2... just because someone was mean to him on the Internet. Guess what, the Internet is a cruel place.


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## Zigara

This thread is very unprofessional and a waste of everyone's time.

I understand the BuyVM guys are just defending themselves from this slew of bullshit and that is understandable.

I understand Mao has some kind of personal issue with Ald and/or Fran, and that is fine, *but* to act on those emotions in such an immature and unprofessional way is unacceptable.

Mao, if you want people to take you seriously, stop acting like a child. I cannot believe your employer is fine with your slew of unprofessional bullshit.

Seriously, grow up.


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## ChrisM

@Mao:


----------



## fixidixi

Well for me this thread is about someone against a company name (thread title self explaining). i read most of the thread (skipped 2-3 pages), but from that my opinion is:

-Aldryic is as he always has been

-Fran made a few comments that he might shouldnt have

-Mao well I dont see any reasonable goals set by you. From the first 2-3 pages all I saw you are -as an employee of prometeus- throwing crap to another provider. thats no way to go.

Well for now im glad you could all change your tone and settle a few things and work out a cease-fire on others .

Note: I've got 1-1 services with both buyvm and prometeus .


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## SrsX

Chris Miller said:


> @Mao:


That could not of been said any better. Just *move on with your life* Mao. If it's been years this has been going on, then I think you might want to see a doctor... or something. Your butt is sore and you're holding a grudge. You can bring all this shit towards BuyVM, and I bet you they'll be able to back up their statements, but... I sadly can't say the same for you. It's 17 pages now, - 17 pages too long.

Honestly, all you're doing here is showing how mature and responsible the Pony team can re-act, make statements, etc. Hell, you might as well just make a Mao coupon for BuyVM.


----------



## maounique

Aaaand, people complain i say the same things, but they do the same. Of course others do because they dont read.

1. Prometeus is not my employer. I have own company which has a contract wot prometeus.

2. BuyVM is not in the position to demand anything, they should first prove I am wrong, there was never a network problem, then I admit the banning was correct. Until then it remains as before.

3. This is not the same thing it happened 18 months ago, now it is about whether Francisco has the right to demand something from Prometeus for something that happened long ago and they didnt prove their network had no problem at all (hence, they banned me for libel). Additionally, whether threatening Prometeus with hacking (or whatever calls that) or me for that matter is correct and justiffied.

For the most part people consider it is mostly correct, Francisco was provoked and he has the right to retaliate however he sees fit, legal, illegal, against me or a third party that does not matter.

The admins/mods in all but appearance took sides and try in various ways to close this thread without giving the real reason. Just look at MartinD recent post which was not constructive at all.

Since Aldryic changed tone and sounded reasonable, I was ready to compromise. Francisco apologises to Prometeus and I drop the matter, but as long as he has support and people consider he did the right thing, that will not happen, in the end it will be another ban or deleted posts, whatever, if it is going in the same direction.

While I dont have the time and heart to go on with this, I will if I have to. I will continue to prove that is not only imoral but also illegal. Since nobody cares, and there is the possibility to ignore me, then I dont see why would it matter.

As I said many times before, this has nothing to do with BuyVM, not to mention Prometeus, even though BuyVM insists that is the case and they made it as such implicating BuyVM in a personal vendetta of Francisco against me. They also insist they have to punish Prometeus for what they did 18 months ago against an individual. Just look at the PMs Francisco threatens me he will hack prometeus, it is obvious his beef s with me, not with Prometeus he will use that attack only to get to me, screw the collateral damage, the customers, etc.

I am curious if it will work in the end it all depends on whether people will read the arguments or go blindly for their pet provider posting memes and all that stuff from 18 months go opcorn:


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## SrsX

Mao said:


> Aaaand, people complain i say the same things, but they do the same. Of course others do because they dont read.
> 
> 1. Prometeus is not my employer. I have own company which has a contract wot prometeus.
> 
> 2. BuyVM is not in the position to demand anything, they should first prove I am wrong, there was never a network problem, then I admit the banning was correct. Until then it remains as before.
> 
> 3. This is not the same thing it happened 18 months ago, now it is about whether Francisco has the right to demand something from Prometeus for something that happened long ago and they didnt prove their network had no problem at all (hence, they banned me for libel). Additionally, whether threatening Prometeus with hacking (or whatever calls that) or me for that matter is correct and justiffied.
> 
> For the most part people consider it is mostly correct, Francisco was provoked and he has the right to retaliate however he sees fit, legal, illegal, against me or a third party that does not matter.
> 
> The admins/mods in all but appearance took sides and try in various ways to close this thread without giving the real reason. Just look at MartinD recent post which was not constructive at all.
> 
> Since Aldryic changed tone and sounded reasonable, I was ready to compromise. Francisco apologises to Prometeus and I drop the matter, but as long as he has support and people consider he did the right thing, that will not happen, in the end it will be another ban or deleted posts, whatever, if it is going in the same direction.
> 
> While I dont have the time and heart to go on for their, I will if I have to. I will continue to prove that is not only imoral but also illegal. Since nobody cares, and there is the possibility to ignore me, then I dont see why would it matter.
> 
> As I said many times before, this has nothing to do with BuyVM not to mention Prometeus, even though BuyVM insists that is the case. They also insist they have to punish prometeus for what they did 18 months ago against an individual.
> 
> I am curious if it will work opcorn:


So you own a company.... and you're acting like _this_?

I wonder if we could implement a facepalm image, @MannDude. I suggest (facepalm) or :fp:


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## maounique

Yes, this has nothing to do with any company.

I was bringing up something that happened long ago to prevent CC making the same mistakes. They try to contain unfavourable PR for their company by banning people.

Francisco took it personal and thought he found a weak spot because I work for Prometeus, he can no longer ban me, so he will try at least to make me die of hunger. Well, at least he thinks that I am some kid in a poor country that has nothing else than a job.

Besides being immoral (in my view, most people seem to agree Francisco did the right thing), it also hits someone who is not implicated at all. Salvatore never said anything publicly about their network, but the end justifies the means...


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## MartinD

God, shut up already. You keep saying the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.


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## SrsX

Drama challenge:

Close your eyes, record yourself saying Mao's speach by heart, then post it on Youtube and paste the link into VPSBoard thread.

We might as well have a _bit_ of fun.


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## JayCawb

Yu


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## JayCawb

^^


My girlfriend decided to press buttons as I was reading the thread.


Soz' guise.


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## nunim

JayCawb said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> My girlfriend decided to press buttons as I was reading the thread.
> 
> 
> Soz' guise.


Does your girlfriend have paws and a tail?  :huh:


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## peterw

Mao said:


> Francisco December 2013
> 
> *If you want to waltz, say so and I'll make sure Sal reconsiders your employment by the end of it.*


For the Francisco is the good guy and Mao is the bad guy party.


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## Coastercraze

Click your glass heals three times and maybe you'll wake up in fairytale land.

If you think something is illegal (just remember BuyVM is Canadian), consult a lawyer, open a suit, etc. If anything though, they'd have more of a case than you and they'd probably walk out laughing with a chunk of change in their pockets.


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## JayCawb

Yeah, that pussy is so naughty... Giggity...Giggity..



nunim said:


> Does your girlfriend have paws and a tail? :huh:


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## maounique

Francisco ruled LET more or less when he banned me and now he supports this place.

He cannot ban me but the attacks continue and at least one admin is clearly taking sides, we will see if there will be a majority for banning.

See, I do not condust this disclosure of his tactcs on LET where he does not have the home turf advantage, but here, same when he ruled LET. He did ban me but couldnt hide the truth.

Hopefully, the same thing will happen now and he will understand that attacks like those are at least immoral.

I always fought them where they had the most advantages. Because there is no point convincing people that are already knowing you, preaching to the choir is counter productive, the important thing is to make people read the argumentation before deciding whom to attack.


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## SrsX

Mao said:


> Francisco ruled LET more or less when he banned me and now he supports this place.
> 
> He cannot ban me but the attacks continue and at least one admin is clearly taking sides, we will see if there will be a majority for banning.
> 
> See, I do not condust this disclosure of his tactcs on LET where he does not have the home turf advantage, but here, same when he ruled LET. He did ban me but couldnt hide the truth.
> 
> Hopefully, the same thing will happen now and he will understand that attacks like those are at least immoral.
> 
> I always fought them where they had the most advantages. Because there is no point convincing people that are already knowing you, preaching to the choir is counter productive, the important thing is to make people read the argumentation before deciding whom to attack.


Francisco "ruled" LET more or less when "he banned me"

Does anyone else see any issue with that line alone?

*Please, get it though your thick-as-fuck skull, Francisco nor any of the BuyVM team ruled LET, no it was your down-right stupidity which got you banned by the moderators/administrators. If you continue this, then you're just a lonely little kid with nothing better to do then give BuyVM free publicity.*

"immortal" - when did mortality come into your little butthurt rant? Let me inform you how it works here, the staff, MannDude, Martin-D, HalfEatenPie decide who gets banned. I can make you a bet, actuallty, $100 says that if they decide to ban you(the staff) it is not because people asked them, it's because they choose to.

Edit: Grammar


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## MannDude

Mao said:


> Francisco ruled LET more or less when he banned me and now he supports this place.
> 
> He cannot ban me but the attacks continue and *at least one admin is clearly taking sides,*


Who?

I don't know who you are and only became familiar with you via this thread. There are no sides. This is a personal matter between yourself and Fran and Aldy.

Everyone here has likely said something out of frustration to someone in the past. Everyone here has opinions over this, or over that. Because this has gone on comically long enough and there is nothing that will ever become as a result of this thread continuing to be bumped I am closing it soon.

Aldy has an opinion of Tor that is popular, but not agreed on by everyone.

Fran said something that made him look like an arrogant ass, though I do not believe his intentions are what you believe they were.

You have gone in circles multiple times in this thread expressing your dislike for them, they have responded with similar opinions towards you.

I'll be closing this thread in a couple hours. Make your case, make your peace, otherwise it will have to be done privately because this is just going on and on and on.

No offense to anyone who is participating, I'm sure everyone (Mao, Aldy, Fran) are all great people in person but no one wants to let the other guy have the last word and nothing new has developed since page 2 so... yeah, it's going to get locked soon.


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## MannDude

SrsX said:


> if they decide to ban you(the staff) it is not because people asked them, it's because they choose to


Mao isn't in risk of being banned. He's not done anything 'wrong'. I don't know why people keep bringing up a ban. This isn't LET. You can have a different opinion of things and not like things other people like and dislike things we do, that's fine.

Only reason this thread is going to be locked is because it's a long, drawn out personal matter with no foreseeable resolution and I believe Mao will continue to bump it until it's been locked.


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## clarity

MannDude said:


> I don't know why people keep bringing up a ban.


No ban, no drama!


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## drmike

Are we still going in circles on this one?

Fran never had swing at LET.  Like most Fran things people abused his kindness and propensity to work for free / be helpful.

If Fran owned/ran LET, you bet your a%% that today the clown posse wouldn't be in possession of the sites over there.

I know Chief/Joel had quite a dislike for you / your approach Mao.  When Chief actually did something on LET it usually involved banning folks and being "underhanded".   People can disagree with me as they like on that.   Chief banned you and that I know for certain, and not fake-Chief or CC-Chief, but the character that snaked/inherited LET/LEB.


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## mikho

MannDude said:


> I believe Mao will continue to bump it until it's been locked.


And then he proved his point and he "won" because Fran and Aldryic "asked" you to do it.


See, there is no way to win an argument against Mao.


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## MannDude

mikho said:


> And then he proved his point and he "won" because Fran and Aldryic "asked" you to do it.
> 
> 
> See, there is no way to win an argument against Mao.


He can think whatever he wants.

Fran and Aldy can ask all day too. (They haven't, but they _can_ if they want)

At the end of the day the thread is locked because of my decision to lock it. If Mao wishes to think otherwise, that is his right to do so but that doesn't make the thought true.

Or I can buy a server from Prometeus, because I have servers with BuyVM. Both companies advertise on here. Then because I have services from both, and both advertise here, the 'bias' he thinks exist will cancel each other out and everyone's brains will explode.


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## maounique

Well, no ban, only thread lock 

I will be disappointed 

I think it was Francisco's best interest to have it die here. I came here exactly because this is his home soil, even though it started at LET, both recently and in the past when (even if we admit he didnt own the place) was his home soil with every second thread hijacked into praising BuyVM. Very few people knew me in LET when I started to reply attacks, same here. But it is his right to reject this advantage.

I am really curious if it will be locked opcorn:


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## mikho

Mao said:


> I came here exactly because this is his home soil,


If you want to bring it to home soil, take it to #Frantech. This is still neutral ground, like Schwitzerland.


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## MannDude

Mao said:


> Well, no ban, only thread lock
> 
> I will be disappointed


I mean, if you're _asking_ to be banned this can certainly be arranged...



> I am really curious if it will be locked  opcorn:


Yes, as per my original statement, soon. Leaving it open now so everyone can have their final words and final chance of resolving the personal qualms within this thread.

Let's say at 5PM EST (GMT -4?) the lock comes on. How does that sound? May not lock if something beneficial or new is stated, otherwise it's just more repetition.


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## mikho

MannDude said:


> I mean, if you're _asking_ to be banned this can certainly be arranged....


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## MannDude

It's just that comments like that make me feel that he is expecting one and wants to see what it takes to get one.

You either have to literally _ask _for one. (Like ShoveNose did a whlie back, and then he asked to come back and was granted) or you have to be posting like... knock off Nike shoe links and Chinese blog spam, ha.

Obviously there are other common sense no-no's that'd get you banned, but nothing in this thread warrants one. But if you _want_ one, all you have to do is just ask.


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## fixidixi

[off]/*yea i realize its already an offtopic discussion but its still off from the topic  */
@MannDude:'You either have to literally _ask _for one.

 how about #nsfw stuff like the one m0shbear loves?
[/off]


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## DomainBop

> MannDude said ways to get banned from vpsboard


买的复制品耐克鞋的图片在我的博客。便宜的鞋！购买！购买！购买！http://www.buynikeshoesonmyblog.cn


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## MannDude

:lock:  Hash out your personal differences privately since no resolution was made publicly. Locked.


----------

