# Need a new keyboard



## MannDude (Jul 15, 2014)

What does everyone here use for a keyboard? I type and type and type all day. My fingers get sore. I stretch them out and try to give my hands a rest while working though it's come to my attention that a better keyboard more suited for a typist or someone who spends all day at a keyboard is likely a helpful solution too. With that said, what do you guys recommend?

Currently I'm using your standard flat, nothing-special cheap keyboard. Do the ergonomic keyboards produce a noticeable difference in comfort after adjusting to them? I've got bad hands and wrists from years of riding BMX and death-gripping handle bars, now I type all day, just can't seem to get any comfort.

What do you guys suggest?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

Das Keyboard Ultimate.

Waiting for them to have more of the DasKeyboard 4s so I can pick one of those up.

After using one of these - no other keyboard really compares.  Even being non-ergonomic, they're so much more comfortable to type on than any other keyboard I've tried since the old M1s.


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## dave (Jul 15, 2014)

I used to use the Microsoft Natural keyboards, but when my last one broke, I got a Kinesis Freestyle2 w/VIP3 accessory, and it's the most comfortable keyboard I've ever used.  It's an ergonomic split keyboard with two separate halves.

http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-vip3-accessory/
 

I got them together as a package from Amazon.


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## D. Strout (Jul 15, 2014)

I currently use and AmazonBasics USB wired keyboard. I don't believe it has any special ergonomic features, but I've had no problems with it in that regard and I find it to be a decent-quality keyboard for cheap - typical of the AmazonBasics line.


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## KS_Phillip (Jul 15, 2014)

I use a Filco Majestouch 2 .  Rock solid.


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## GIANT_CRAB (Jul 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Das Keyboard Ultimate.
> 
> Waiting for them to have more of the DasKeyboard 4s so I can pick one of those up.
> 
> After using one of these - no other keyboard really compares.  Even being non-ergonomic, they're so much more comfortable to type on than any other keyboard I've tried since the old M1s.


For a moment, I read that as "Dat Ultimate Keyboard".

lol


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## Dylan (Jul 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Das Keyboard Ultimate.
> 
> Waiting for them to have more of the DasKeyboard 4s so I can pick one of those up.
> 
> After using one of these - no other keyboard really compares.  Even being non-ergonomic, they're so much more comfortable to type on than any other keyboard I've tried since the old M1s.


If you're a fan of mechanical keyboards like the Dases (Dasi?) the Corsair K70s use the same Cherry MX switches, so the keys feel the same, plus they're backlit, which I find hard to go without now. They also have a really swanky and tank-like aluminum chassis.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

Honestly, the lack of any labels at all (the Ultimate is sleek black with no markings save the logo) was what originally drew me to it.  Fantastic to have at the office - keeps everyone else off of my workstation.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jul 15, 2014)

People might dislike me for this but...

Dell L-100 Keyboard.

I got one free a while back and I've actually really enjoyed using it.  Right now, I'm away from my desktop but I also bought a Dell L-100 keyboard from the local salvage shop for 5 dollars and will soon be cleaning it up and using it again!


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## trewq (Jul 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> After using one of these - no other keyboard really compares. Even being non-ergonomic, they're so much more comfortable to type on than any other keyboard I've tried since the old M1s.


I used a Das 4 Professional the other day. I noticed the ease of typing instantly and will be ordering one soon.


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## GreenHostBox (Jul 15, 2014)

Do you like mechanical keyboards?


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## AThomasHowe (Jul 15, 2014)

I just use a bog standard keyboard but I've always wanted something like the Logitech G19s with a screen


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

I'm usually a huge fan of Logitech (use them for mice, keyboards, speakers, etc)... but I was highly unimpressed with the gaming keyboard.  I have the model above, minus the viewscreen (the G110 I believe).. and sad to say it just feels like one of those really cheap Razer kits - does not have the usual Logitech quality.  Some of the keys actually squeak from rubbing against each other - I'll likely pick up another Das to use on my gaming rig at some point to replace it.


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## markjcc (Jul 15, 2014)

I have this keyboard, It's Quite nice I like that the bottom piece it's a resting area for your palm's

For a mouse I would recommend the Microsoft Arc Mouse, Very comfortable since it's curved.


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## rmlhhd (Jul 15, 2014)

+1 for @Aldryic C'boas


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## AThomasHowe (Jul 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> I'm usually a huge fan of Logitech (use them for mice, keyboards, speakers, etc)... but I was highly unimpressed with the gaming keyboard.  I have the model above, minus the viewscreen (the G110 I believe).. and sad to say it just feels like one of those really cheap Razer kits - does not have the usual Logitech quality.  Some of the keys actually squeak from rubbing against each other - I'll likely pick up another Das to use on my gaming rig at some point to replace it.


What's the one before it, the G18? With the old school LCD display in it? That's the one I always really wanted but it's just as expensive used as the G110.

Use the screen for anything cool at least?


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## k0nsl (Jul 15, 2014)

Any mechanical keyboard from a solid company will do. I've got a pretty "lame" one, though. A CM Storm QuickFire. I needed one quickly and the store only carried that and something even worse, or only those crappy non-mechanical ones (I cannot stand them). Once you go mechanical you don't go back 

But hey, it works. Look, you can tell


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

Nah, mine's the one without the screen.  I'm at the office so I can't glance and see the model offhand, but pretty sure the G110 is the one I have.

Yup, found a decent pic, the G110 is the one I have at home.  Logitech gear is usually really nice quality - this keyboard was a bit of a disappointment.  I won't touch Razer again, though - anything from them I've used invariably turned out to be cheap plastic crap.


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## AThomasHowe (Jul 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Nah, mine's the one without the screen.  I'm at the office so I can't glance and see the model offhand, but pretty sure the G110 is the one I have.
> 
> Yup, found a decent pic, the G110 is the one I have at home.  Logitech gear is usually really nice quality - this keyboard was a bit of a disappointment.  I won't touch Razer again, though - anything from them I've used invariably turned out to be cheap plastic crap.


Oh I missed that bit. Yeah I can definitely see it being pretty shitty without the screen gimmick. This is the one I meant, the G15:



I always thought that screen (not the colour one) would be cool to have CPU temp and stuff and then to say 'New e-mail from xyz!' or whatever.


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## fisle (Jul 15, 2014)

I've been having some shoulder pain on my right shoulder, and I've found that using tenkeyless keyboard helps with that, as when using the mouse your hand does not "stretch" to the right too much. 

Here's a picture of my keyboard.


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## raindog308 (Jul 15, 2014)

I use the Microsoft Natural as well...(lifts it up)...model 4000 at the moment.

I hate regular keyboards now - ergo for life.

I should probably get a Dvorak layout...I already type fast and wonder how much faster I could be.


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## AMDbuilder (Jul 15, 2014)

I've also used the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 in the past, and it's a great option.  My last one died prematurely - space bar stopped working - which I wouldn't call typical.  I ended up replacing it with a SteelSeries Apex Raw, which lights up and gives me a ton of hotkeys.

I would have gone with a Mechanical keyboard had one been available in town with hotkeys.


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2014)

Hmm, I decided on the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A6PPOK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

It wasn't the highest reviewed option, though it has a ton more sales then the one or two keyboards I saw with higher ratings. It looks more comfortable than the others. Main complaints I see is that the letters wear off from the keys with heavy use. Meh. As long as 'F' and 'J' have that little raised edge on them I can live without seeing the letters.

Should be here Thursday. I'll report back once it arrives and let you know how it feels.

I'm going to be re-doing my home office soon. Probably going to build a desk because right now I am using two different sized desks that were from Goodwill. Cheap, crappy desks. Also need a proper office chair as this $70 chair I bought from Staples about 10 months ago is already literally falling a apart. I broke the back off of it partially by leaning back / stretching in it and I had a kitten living with my for a few months that decided it was the purrfect scratching post...

I'm gonna get comfortable at the computer eventually.


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## tonyg (Jul 15, 2014)

Man, I guess when you pass a certain age, change comes at a slower pace.

The keyboards at my two workstations at the office:

IBM Model M circa 1984

Dell AT101W circa 1990

I like good feedback from a key press and these two, specially the IBM are tops.


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## drmike (Jul 15, 2014)

I love the IBM Model M's   Was just tripping on one the other night in old gear pile of mine... might clean it up and get it wired up...  Crazy to see new-in-box ones listed for $600 on Ebay right now.

I tend to use el cheapo keyboards with center hump style and sculpted overall area... Nothing fancy...  They are throwaways / use and replace every couple years tops.

Using a mega cheap LARGE letter keyboard right now... I buy them, wear the keys and pitch them...  Can justify that with $10 keyboard....

Part of it is hygiene... Pretty nasty what lurks in folks keyboards.... and why I am not breaking out a small fortune for one ever...  Office policy for any new employee is if not a new computer, they always get a new mouse and keyboard.. others get thrown in storage for parts/crash carts/whatever....


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## MannDude (Jul 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> Part of it is hygiene... Pretty nasty what lurks in folks keyboards....


Take a sticky note and slide it between the rows of keys if you truly want to be disgusted...


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## drmike (Jul 15, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Take a sticky note and slide it between the rows of keys if you truly want to be disgusted...


Bahaha... heavy card stock works even better... useless business cards do quite well...

Years ago I used this method with a health company whining about my eccentricity on replacing gear for new employees....

Here watch this - swipe with biz card... Send that pile off to the lab for analysis.. Then I turned it over and beat the living hell out of the keyboard.. big ole pile of randomness on a white table swept it into a pile and into a bag... Had the medical director send it off to the lab... Needless to say owners/managers were grossed out by what they found and never questioned my insanity on that again...

I'd have notebooks/laptops come back in from the field with all sorts of human secretions unintentionally.. People are human, think no will notice.. Ehh I try not, jerky.

Input devices are simply NASTY.  Filth heaps of everything.  I'll stop now, making myself ill...  Thinking about people and their smartphones and lending said nasty things to one another for a quick use...  Still can't believe touchscreen is so prevalent, even especially in shared environments....  Restaurants come to mind.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> I love the IBM Model M's


That's why I love the DasKeyboards so much.  They intentionally created as close a copy to the M1 as they could, and the quality shows.


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## drmike (Jul 15, 2014)

DasKeyboards available with labels also?  How about a LED backlit?  Two features I just prefer if I could find them.

Thanks for making the parallel...


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 15, 2014)

Labels yes - the Professional model has marked keys.  Just the Ultimate model is blank.  I don't believe they have a backlit model - but I think @Dylan linked a similar keyboard that has the same keyswitches (tactile feedback), and is backlit.


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## drmike (Jul 16, 2014)

Corsair looks nifty. Now I just need need it metal - steel ideally.


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## Coastercraze (Jul 16, 2014)

I currently have a Logitech G105 CoD edition (got it cheap - about $35.) Took some time to get used to it, but it works. Had a Saitek Cyborg V.5 before this and that was better typing wise (BB clearance for $49). Both are backlit which was something I liked / had to have for some reason haha.

If I recall there is a company that makes waterproof keyboards which can be thrown into a dishwasher to be cleaned (no dry cycle of course).


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## Dylan (Jul 16, 2014)

drmike said:


> Corsair looks nifty. Now I just need need it metal - steel ideally.


The Corsair is aluminum. Very solid, heavy build.

If you like extra clicky keys a la the Model M make sure you're looking at the Cherry MX Blue version (the different switches have different levels of tactility).


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## AMDbuilder (Jul 16, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Meh. As long as 'F' and 'J' have that little raised edge on them I can live without seeing the letters.


Yes, and in the ~13 months I got out of my last one the keys didn't wear off that much.  Yes, my heavily used keys did show some wear and tear, but all remained visible.  If the spacebar didn't die on me (I haven't taken it apart to check why yet) I figure it would take another 1-2 years for the keys to be totally gone.

I've seen some NASTY keyboards over the years... as @drmike put it best, I'll avoid making myself sick... Changing them often is a great thing!


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## KS_Phillip (Jul 16, 2014)

drmike said:


> I love the IBM Model M's   Was just tripping on one the other night in old gear pile of mine... might clean it up and get it wired up...  Crazy to see new-in-box ones listed for $600 on Ebay right now.
> 
> I tend to use el cheapo keyboards with center hump style and sculpted overall area... Nothing fancy...  They are throwaways / use and replace every couple years tops.
> 
> ...


Some of us dismantle and clean our keyboards monthly


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## HalfEatenPie (Jul 16, 2014)

KS_Phillip said:


> Some of us dismantle and clean our keyboards monthly


Haha regular maintenance is always important.  Although does take me a good 30 minutes just to clean my keyboard.


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## William (Jul 16, 2014)

I use one of the Apple aluminium keyboards, would never use anything else again.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Jul 17, 2014)

I have had a das keyboard on the Amazon wish list but I have never gone through with it. Looks amazing, hard to justify the money.


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## MannDude (Jul 17, 2014)

This is my first sentence typed on my new keyboard.... This is going to take a little while to get used to but it feels alright so far.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Jul 17, 2014)

The one you picked looks really large and bulky. Hows it feel?


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## MannDude (Jul 17, 2014)

SPINIKR-RO said:


> The one you picked looks really large and bulky. Hows it feel?


Large, but not _too_ bulky. I already seem to be warming up to it.

One thing I have noticed is that I typed improperly previously... Like, if I got to type the letter 'B'... I used to use my right index finger and reach over to it. On this keyboard it is dead space where that finger goes and I look down and realize it's on the _left_ hand side of the keyboard. Same with 'Y'... but I'd use my left index finger for that instead.

The palm pad is nice, better than resting my fingers on my metal desk tray.

I'll review in more detail when I have had more than 20 minutes on it.


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## SPINIKR-RO (Jul 17, 2014)

I remember having a old Microsoft keyboard in the ate nineties that was that butterfly but spread farther apart. I was one of the most annoying keyboards ever.


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## ssgsunny (Jul 18, 2014)

Using Dell Dell - 5 Branded Keyboard.


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## pcan (Jul 18, 2014)

drmike said:


> Part of it is hygiene... Pretty nasty what lurks in folks keyboards...


I wonder what's lurking in this one I saw today:



This is what happens when:

a- the user is male,

b- there is no office cleaning service,

c- the user never ever clean its desk, years after years,

d- the user's boss is male too, and does not care.

I have a few of these "greasy fingers" users. Remote assistence only!


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## tonyg (Jul 18, 2014)

^^ ah yes, I know them keyboards (although this might be the grimiest one I have seen yet!)

Let me guess, that has to be a warehouse or some kind of repair shop (auto mechanic, body shop, etc.)


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## definedcode (Jul 18, 2014)

Recommend a das keyboard if you want to pay the price tag.


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## MannDude (Jul 18, 2014)

pcan said:


> I wonder what's lurking in this one I saw today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh god. That's awful.


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## pcan (Jul 18, 2014)

tonyg said:


> Let me guess, that has to be a warehouse or some kind of repair shop (auto mechanic, body shop, etc.)


You guessed right, it's a warehouse. That place is nice and basically clean; the PC is definitely the dirtiest thing. It's strange. I promptly replace such a dirty keyboard if the user asks for it, but they seems to be totally at ease.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I once had to replace a keyboard because the user removed the keycaps to wash away (!) the dirt and, of course, some keys went dead (and some were misplaced).


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## drmike (Jul 18, 2014)

Looks like that warehouse has a good bit of particulate matter - namely carbon.

Would seem to be petrol/diesel waste... But could be from heating like coal or wood....

I thought it was from say an automotive garage myself


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## Coastercraze (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah, some of the keyboards at work are horrible with all sorts of crap on them. Some of it is the result of gloves which may have stuff on them such as sealer, grease, oils, etc. Thankfully there are touchscreens too, but I hate them sometimes.


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## Shados (Jul 23, 2014)

KS_Phillip said:


> I use a Filco Majestouch 2 .  Rock solid.


I have a tenkeyless no-legends one of those (with Cherry Blue switches) as my main keyboard currently. Also waiting on the current ErgoDox massdrop to finalize & ship; really, really looking forward to having a split-hand keyboard with mechanical keyswitches that is _fully_ programmable. Plus, assembly will make for a fun day :3. And while I'm at it, here's my massdrop referral link: https://www.massdrop.com/r/WXVCQJ


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 23, 2014)

Shados said:


> Also waiting on the current ErgoDox massdrop to finalize & ship;


_"Sign up to see inside"._  Nope, lost all interest right there >_<



> _We may receive Personal Information about you from other sources with which you have registered, companies who we have partnered with (collectively, "Partners") or other third parties. We may associate this information with the other Personal Information we have collected about you._





> _We may share some or all of your Personal Information with Massdrop.com affiliated and group companies that are under a common control, so that they may send daily deal e-mails to you_


And that just ensured they will never get me to sign up.


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## Shados (Jul 24, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> _"Sign up to see inside"._  Nope, lost all interest right there >_<
> 
> And that just ensured they will never get me to sign up.


Yes, the registration wall is something of a major uptake issue for them. It's also unfortunately not one they're going to be able to do much about (at least not unless they get really huge); a lot of manufacturers place legal restrictions in the form of a 'minimum advertised price' (MAP), and because most of their prices fall beneath this they are not legally able to advertise them to anyone not logged in. Amazon and other larger retailers also actually have this issue on some items (if you've ever had an Amazon item where you couldn't see the price until you added it to your cart, this is why), but as they're a shitton bigger they have more weight to negotiate with.

IANAL, but here's how I read those two clauses when I signed up:


"We can verify/compare information you directly provide with information provided by third-parties (e.g. payment providers, facebook, etc.)"
'<list of entities> under a common control' is essentially legalese for 'companies/etc. with the same ownership', and this kind of phrasing on sending email is pretty common. For the record, they do indeed send "daily deal" e-mails to you, but in the form of a monthly (or at least, I've only got one/month) update on new drops & current polls for new drops, which you can opt-out of from your profile/account settings. To be honest, I kind of wish they'd send me _more_ emails vis a vis status updates on drop progress.
I would not have mentioned them if I thought they were likely to spam you / flog off your personal information / otherwise be dickheads >.>

That said, if you're not comfortable with it still (or just want a more hard-core build experience ), then I'd like to point out that the ErgoDox is a completely open hardware/software project - the PCB design, case design, Teensy firmware, etc. can all be freely downloaded/modified/redistributed, so if you want you can get the PCB made yourself, get a case printed or build one of your own, buy a Teensy, find & buy Cherry MX switches & keycaps, get all the diodes, etc. and do it all more or less from scratch. This is more convenient though, and potentially a lot cheaper depending on what you have etc.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 24, 2014)

For those of you that were interested in DasKeyboard, the Model S is the current item on the WootOff.


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## Dylan (Jul 24, 2014)

Shados said:


> Yes, the registration wall is something of a major uptake issue for them. It's also unfortunately not one they're going to be able to do much about (at least not unless they get really huge); a lot of manufacturers place legal restrictions in the form of a 'minimum advertised price' (MAP), and because most of their prices fall beneath this they are not legally able to advertise them to anyone not logged in. Amazon and other larger retailers also actually have this issue on some items (if you've ever had an Amazon item where you couldn't see the price until you added it to your cart, this is why), but as they're a shitton bigger they have more weight to negotiate with.


I worked for a retailer that had to follow MAPs and have to call BS on that. Amazon and other reputable retailers make you sign in (or depending on the manufacturer add the item to your cart) to see the *price*. Manufacturers accept that as complying with the MAP since it requires explicit consumer action. There is no legitimate reason to make you sign in to merely see the *item*. Massdrop's registration wall is a marketing choice, plain and simple (just like, say, Quora).

Want proof of that? Just add the query string "?mode=guest_open" to the end of any Massdrop URL, and voila, you can see everything (item and price) without signing up or in. Massdrop themselves no doubt know full well how consumer-unfriendly the registration wall is because they add that query to all links they share (i.e. advertise) on social media... probably so their posts don't get flooded with comments about how annoying having to sign up is!

For example: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?mode=guest_open


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## peetscott (Jul 25, 2014)

Does it even have the character sign ? ( I don't know how its called xD )

http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/

Also the name : "Bad Ass4" is just lol


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## TruvisT (Jul 25, 2014)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823816022

That is what I am waiting to come out. Been waiting since first shown at Computex 2014.


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