# Untapped locations?



## MannDude (Apr 21, 2013)

Everyone and their brother has setup shop in popular US cities such as LA, Dallas, Chicago, Buffalo and NYC, etc. Europe isn't lacking any number of providers either, though I'd speculate it's not as over-saturated as a market as some of the US locations.

What are some locations you'd like to see offered that rarely is? Personally, I'd like to see more in India, South America, South Korea, the Caribbean and Africa. Trouble is most these places have high bandwidth costs compared to elsewhere.

What are your thoughts?


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## D. Strout (Apr 21, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Trouble is most these places have high bandwidth costs compared to elsewhere.


That's the problem with any "untapped location". People go where bandwidth, power, network access, hardware, etc. is cheap. Personally, living in the U.S., I have ready (a.k.a. low latency) access to the highly tapped locations. While other locations would be nice, for one reason or the other they are prohibitive, so there's not much to be done.

Although one location in the U.S. that could use a bit more love is Boston (in more ways than one right now).


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## netnub (Apr 22, 2013)

new zealand would be an awesome location, can't find lots of providers in NZ.


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## MannDude (Apr 22, 2013)

netnub said:


> new zealand would be an awesome location, can't find lots of providers in NZ.


Looked into that before, though the bandwidth cost is pretty dang pricey.

I mean, it's not impossible to do that, or even do 'low end' servers there. I think most people would use one as a VPN or a DNS server for the novelty of it, though. I'd like to add a NZ location to my dns cluster, that'd be pretty neat =]


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## Lee (Apr 25, 2013)

I don't really think there are any untapped areas left, there are many that have little presence however that is because nobody, or enough actually want services in that region.  And with the likes of cloudflare getting thrown in front of so many sites now or other form of CDN you are pretty much covered from the West Coast of the USA through to the East side of the EU and that is really all anyone needs unless there is a specific desire to be in a location.


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## JDiggity (Apr 29, 2013)

We be in 3 new locations in about a month.  We will have Dallas, Miami, Seatle.


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## MannDude (Apr 29, 2013)

24khost said:


> We be in 3 new locations in about a month.  We will have Dallas, Miami, Seatle.


Nice! Glad to see more in Seattle, I feel like it's a good west coast location that is often overlooked. Some Chinese clients even seem to prefer Seattle over LA, so there's that too...

We had some talk of opening a Seoul location but not sure whats going in. We've talked about a lot of locations too, so we'll see. Personally I'd rather re-up in our existing locations.


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## igobyterry (Apr 30, 2013)

As someone else said, a lot of the problem with these untapped location is their cost to do business there. We offer Cloud Servers in Australia, but at an increased rate of $65, compared to $20. At $20 there's pretty significant demand, but at $65 not so much, so while there's demand, it's not at the prices providers can afford.

There are a lot of alternatives though. For example, San Jose makes for a good alternative to native Australia. Miami makes for a good alternative to South America. Singapore is still pretty affordable, while working well for the APAC regions.


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## Nick (May 2, 2013)

netnub said:


> new zealand would be an awesome location, can't find lots of providers in NZ.


Aye! Another kiwi?

I've been looking getting some gear in New Zealand (locally) but have a busy year ahead of me. Keep an eye out though!


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## notFound (May 9, 2013)

24khost said:


> We be in 3 new locations in about a month.  We will have Dallas, Miami, Seatle.


Damn, I want a VPS in Seatle, never seen that on the map before.


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## MannDude (May 9, 2013)

notFound said:


> Damn, I want a VPS in Seatle, never seen that on the map before.


Oh really? We've got some Seattle nodes but they're at capacity now. _I'll kick someone off for the right price...  /s_

Seattle is a good location and alternative to LA, especially when it comes to the Chinese who just want use the VPS as a VPN.


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## SPINIKR-RO (May 9, 2013)

Some non-us entity should try for Cuba.


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## D. Strout (May 10, 2013)

notFound said:


> Damn, I want a VPS in Seatle


RamNode's got great stuff in Seattle.


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## MannDude (May 11, 2013)

Spinikr said:


> Some non-us entity should try for Cuba.


Or for the riskier American, do it anyway. Then create a stir when the feds come after you, and bring light to the fact we SHOULD be trading with our Cuban friends.


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## Awmusic12635 (May 12, 2013)

I have been considering a Canada location (not ovh). Opinion?


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## Nick (May 12, 2013)

Fliphost said:


> I have been considering a Canada location (not ovh). Opinion?


Haven't seen much from Canada lately.

I would prefer to see Asia/Pacific but Canada would work out better than another US Location IMO.


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## drmike (May 13, 2013)

Agree with @Nick, lack of Canada offers.

A-Pac area needs more options. 

India has tons of people but hardly any offers.  Ditto for China, but laws to operate behind the great wall make it hard to no go option.


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## Coastercraze (May 14, 2013)

Probably Singapore and New Zeland.

In the US, secondary markets like Pittsburgh.


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## drmike (May 14, 2013)

Coastercraze has the right idea.  2nd tier market would be nice too   Some great in-between places out there with low latency and rich provider mix.


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## mnpeep (May 14, 2013)

Problem with Seattle is that most traffic is pushed through San Jose.

Actually, I don't see many providers in San Jose. The only one I can name is BlueVM.


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## drmike (May 14, 2013)

Seattle has long been an under-served market considering the tech concentration up there.

Glad RamNode opened up service there, sorely needed something there.

San Jose, hmmm EGI and their new BuyVM ripoff of sorts comes to mind.  

Not much generally in California considering the population and tech concentration there.  Same places and same lacking networks.


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## mojeda (May 15, 2013)

I'm not sure how up to date or complete this map is but it lists a lot of datacenters around the world doesn't show where VPS hosts are but it could show possible new locations that you didn't think of before?

http://www.datacentermapping.com/data-center-map


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## mnpeep (May 15, 2013)

mojeda said:


> I'm not sure how up to date or complete this map is but it lists a lot of datacenters around the world doesn't show where VPS hosts are but it could show possible new locations that you didn't think of before?
> 
> http://www.datacentermapping.com/data-center-map


Some places are ridiculously expensive for a LET host to exist


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## mojeda (May 15, 2013)

mnpeep said:


> Some places are ridiculously expensive for a LET host to exist


Yes but even still.


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## Mun (May 15, 2013)

I would pay for a LEB in Australlia, as long as it had high bandwidth


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## JDiggity (May 15, 2013)

Actually we pulled our plan for Seattle as it really wasn't very good.  We are now looking at something like San Jose.

Looking to offer what we call premium locations and this one didn't end up working for us.


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## mikho (May 15, 2013)

I want that place that has the lowest latency to the rest of the world.... impossible ? perhaps ...

On a more serious note, I would like to see more in the EU, Central and north.

Often the offers that are available are dirt expensive, but there are some treasures to be found


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## mojeda (May 15, 2013)

Mun said:


> I would pay for a LEB in Australlia, as long as it had high bandwidth


I don't think that is possible with out hefty restrictions. Your best bet is to get something on the west coast as the latency won't be that much different.


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## mnpeep (May 15, 2013)

24khost said:


> Actually we pulled our plan for Seattle as it really wasn't very good.  We are now looking at something like San Jose.
> 
> Looking to offer what we call premium locations and this one didn't end up working for us.


Too expensive, unless you go with EGI, which has a crappy network. If you're planning to go to San Jose, I would recommend going Multi-homed right off the bat. Bring a L3 switch to bring alongside you.


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## Shados (May 15, 2013)

mojeda said:


> I don't think that is possible with out hefty restrictions. Your best bet is to get something on the west coast as the latency won't be that much different.



Server bandwidth pricing here is getting increasingly ridiculous, and unfortunately the ~200ms latency to west coast US _is_ a problem for certain uses (remote desktop, game servers, etc.).

The NBN is promising pretty decent bandwidth pricing as far as home connections go, though, so we might see some improvement on the business end as well before too long.


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## 365Networks (May 15, 2013)

Wouldn't mind seeing more providers in the Oceania region, specifically Australia. New Zealand wouldn't be a bad alternative either, as stated above.


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## Oliver (May 15, 2013)

Mun said:


> I would pay for a LEB in Australlia, as long as it had high bandwidth


How much is "high bandwidth"?


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## bizzard (May 16, 2013)

I think there is a good potential in the Asia region. I am interested in setting up a low end VPS service, but interest is not that all matters . I lack the experience with virtualization and also the financials. All I know about how VPS providers work is from the threads in LET and WHT. I am from India and there aren't much data centers here. Out of curiosity about the pricing, I contacted CtrlS datacenter in Hyderabad and they have provided me a quote on dedicated as well as colocation. If any existing provider would like to open up a service location in India, I can be of some help.

The quote I got was for a 2 x Quad Core Xeon 5620, 16 GB of RAM, 3 x 300 SAS HDD with RAID 5, 500 GB Bandwidth, with 2 IP's. Its around 650USD per month. I can get the pricing for any other specs if needed. Colocation looks more attractive to me. Its 100USD per month for 1U rack, with 500GB bandwidth. They mentioned the power ratings when I called, but I forgot that. Extra 500GB bandwidth costs around 50USD. Also, they won't be charging for any hardware support. Just sent them the hardware and they will be setting it up. We are also allowed to go in and setup the hardware.

Does this pricing look affordable for a LEB provider? Let me know if anyone is interested.


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## Oliver (May 16, 2013)

No it's not affordable at all. You could probably get 5 servers like that in Europe or the US for the same price and 2 or 3 the same somewhere like Hong Kong or Singapore or maybe even Australia (where you're also likely to get a reliable power supply). No way you can start a LEB provider in India with prices like that.


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## gr3g0s (May 16, 2013)

Hi guys,

Those looking for New Zealand VPS, check out kgovps.com.

We are offering New Zealand XEN packages at a great price - feel free to check us out or email us at info[AT]kgovps.com

We built our own software in-house to manage everything from billing to the virtual machine aspect. This allows us to keep costs down and in turn pass on savings to the end user.
 

We have just launched with our first 2 locations Auckland and Kansas City.

Our NZ Plans start at $15 /month and are 256Mb + 256Mb Swap, 10Gb HD or 5GB SSD, 100Gb Data Transfer

Chur 

EDIT: I forgot to add our launch special, drop KGOBLASTOFF during checkout to receive 20% recurring discount off all but our IP6 only plans.


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## Nick (May 16, 2013)

gr3g0s said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Those looking for New Zealand VPS, check out kgovps.com.
> 
> ...


Damn 27 ms ping. Too pricey for a VPN though


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## Prestige (May 16, 2013)

netnub said:


> new zealand would be an awesome location, can't find lots of providers in NZ.


QuickWeb


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## Nick (May 16, 2013)

Prestige said:


> QuickWeb


*shivers*


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## gr3g0s (May 16, 2013)

Cheers 4 the ping Nick, I average about 16 ms from here in Opotiki  We found us an awesome co-lo in Auckland

I forgot to add our launch special, drop KGOBLASTOFF during checkout to receive 20% recurring discount off all but our IP6 only plans.


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## Nick (May 16, 2013)

gr3g0s said:


> Cheers 4 the ping Nick, I average about 16 ms from here in Opotiki  We found us an awesome co-lo in Auckland
> 
> 
> I forgot to add our launch special, drop KGOBLASTOFF during checkout to receive 20% recurring discount off all but our IP6 only plans.


Awesome, I'm in Tauranga.


May pick one up. Mind to put a speed test/file up?


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## JDiggity (May 16, 2013)

With regards to san jose - these will not be low end boxes.  As we stated We are going to offer 3 premium locations and 3 budget locations.  We know the issues with egi and are staying far away.  We asked the question on a forum that will remain nameless for Fran to advise which one he had issues with.  After his issues we were not going any where near that facility.


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## gr3g0s (May 16, 2013)

No probs Nick,

dont want to be hammered, so have PM u a link to test file

G


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## AnthonySmith (May 16, 2013)

There are many untapped locations that have not been tapped because of the drooling lust for <$7 servers, if people would pay $14 instead and take a logical approach then the more hosts that move in to a location the better the prices are for everyone.


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## wlanboy (May 16, 2013)

http://www.qualitytech.com

http://www.dft.com

http://www.globalswitch.com/locations/paris-data-center


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## wrox (May 16, 2013)

The only reputable provider selling at budget prices in Sweden is EDIS. Other than that, Norway, Finland and Denmark (see: the Nordic) lacks - to my knowledge, a great amount of quality low-priced hosts.


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## Tipsta (May 17, 2013)

South America...


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## ElliotJ (May 17, 2013)

The Middle-East - Okay, I accept that certain countries may have legal systems that could make things a lil' difficult, but surely Israel might be possible?

India - Huge population, very few offers that have actually lasted.


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## bizzard (May 20, 2013)

ElliotJ said:


> India - Huge population, very few offers that have actually lasted.


I posted the quote, which I got for a dedicated server in one of the Indian datacenters. It might be the reason for not much providers from India. Haven't seen much providers selling vps's located in India. Even if there are, the prices are much higher than the LEB limit. Most of the hosting providers here have servers in US or Europe.


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## tallship (May 23, 2013)

Citynethost has operations in Cairo, Egypt, They're rather reliable and stable, and the DNS server we maintain there never lost connectivity to the Internet even during the whole, "Fall of Mubarik" escapade.

I had a machine colo'd in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan about ten or twelve years ago, until there was a terrorist attack taking out that facility.

I find that some of the more underserved areas are actually in Africa, where it is almost impossible to find reasonable co-location space in some regions. We installed and managed some machinery for a client and the provider facility was actually a university there, with relatively little connectivity there within that particular country, due to a severe lack of telecommunications infrastructure.

You could have purchased a nice 3/4 ton long bed, king cab, 4x4 w/duallies for the price our client was paying us for just six months of service at a time.

The client eventually abandoned the project, and the machines were left as donations for the university because it just wasn't worth it to bother shipping them out of the country (They might not have made it out anyway). Our client was speculating that people would need services there, yet discovered the hard way that their concept was far beyond any demand or even capability there.


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## EarthVPN (May 28, 2013)

Norway,Brazil,Argentina,Panama,Toronto,New Zealand,China,India..


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## TheLinuxBug (May 28, 2013)

D. Strout said:


> Although one location in the U.S. that could use a bit more love is Boston (in more ways than one right now).


Http://www.axcelx.com  or Http://www.bostonvps.com  - They actually offered VMware vps on LEB at one time.  I know the owner and he is a good guy who cares about his customers.  The only caveats are the price is higher than the LEB price range at this point and a large portion of their network is Cogent. However, I have found their network extremely reliable and to give you an idea about uptime on their hardware:

[email protected]:~# uptime

 15:48:34 up 379 days,  5:04,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

 

Also, I do not remember the last time I saw a network outage, maybe once a long time ago. 

I haven't found many Boston providers who do not use mostly Cogent that are not on the high-end cost side of things, it seems commits for Level3 and some of the other larger providers is quite expensive there.

As per other places that are 'Untapped'...

There are a lot of Datacenters around the US that have great routing and networks that are not used in this industry that would be great to see VPS available in, however, as mentioned above usually these DCs come at a premium.  A few that come to mind are:

Expedient - Pittsburgh, PA , Cleveland, OH , Columbus, OH, Boston, MA , Baltimore, MD, Carmel, IN

Latisys - Ashburn, VA , Orange County, CA , Denver, CO  and Chicago

I am sure I could come up with some others, but these are the two Companies that come to mind where I know they have really good networks and have not been exposed in this industry. 

Edit:



wrox said:


> Norway, Finland and Denmark (see: the Nordic)


Would be awesome, but in my experience data services for commercial use in Norway (Nordic region) is ridiculously expensive.  They have a great infrastructure which they are super proud of, thus the costs.

P.S. HeroicVPS is actually located in Ashburn, VA with Phoenixnap which I believe uses the Latisys DC. (Do not quote me, they could be in Equinix which is also located there)

my 2 cents.

Cheers!


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## Mun (May 28, 2013)

Hawaii


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## darknessends (May 28, 2013)

India - not a lot of providers offer it.


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## notFound (May 28, 2013)

TheLinuxBug said:


> Would be awesome, but in my experience data services for commercial use in Norway (Nordic region) is ridiculously expensive. They have a great infrastructure which they are super proud of, thus the costs.


Well some are, however there are affordable ones but they're majority Cogent with quite bad routing. Was thinking of dropping a few nodes out in Finland but yeah, the network wasn't so good, had a nice deal though. ;-)

I would like Jordan, it's a growing country, economically and it's fairly stable politically (a few ups and downs though).


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## libro22 (May 28, 2013)

With the high Internet speed in Korea, it seems to be a good location but they are too restrictive. They require you to have a national/citizen ID. 

Other than Seoul, Singapore is also a good location. If only there are more providers there, the price would go down a lot


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## johnlth93 (May 29, 2013)

expensive bandwidth/power/space/etc

that make it harder to "tap"


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## ihatetonyy (May 29, 2013)

tallship said:


> Citynethost has operations in Cairo, Egypt, They're rather reliable and stable, and the DNS server we maintain there never lost connectivity to the Internet even during the whole, "Fall of Mubarik" escapade.


(sorry for the derail) I seem to remember a lot of whining about them on LEB/LET back when their offers were running. Would you recommend them, then? I've looked on and off at them just for the novelty of having an Egypt VPS.


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## tallship (May 29, 2013)

ihatetonyy said:


> I seem to remember a lot of whining about them on LEB/LET back when their offers were running. Would you recommend them, then? I've looked on and off at them just for the novelty of having an Egypt VPS.


I picked up a vps from a special offer at LEB a couple of years ago or so. At first, there were some issues, but I was relentless, and it went kind of like this:


Zabbix starts firing alerts off to me
I open a new ticket for each alert
they try to keep up with whatever the issue is but everytime a new issue comes up I am on it within ten minutes because I have zabbix submit the reports directly to their ticket system for me
There is no hiding from me as I continue to open automated tickets via Zabbix each time there are service issues, even if most people wouldn't notice
any RAM issues - open a ticket
any disk issues reported - open a ticket
any outtage issues for even a couple of minutes - Zabbix opens a ticket via email for each one and I later ask why, requiring an answer, presenting reports from three different Zabbix servers
any issues at all related to resources, performance, availability, etc. zabbix open a separate ticket with pastes of the reports and I follow up with personal queries if I don't get a response to my tickets within four hours from them as to why.
I accept their made up excuses at first, and then they figure out they can't keep providing third rate service.
CityNetHost eventually comes to the realization (about two or three weeks into service) that I will not go away and will report any overselling issues - whether they affect me or not.
CityNetHost moves me to a different (apparently special) node.
I now have a reliable running vps to serve DNS w/reverse DNS, machine has had no issues for a year or two whatsoever.
They really only seem to respond to trouble tickets once every day or so.

They promise something and I expect to get what I paid for - nevermind the fact that they got me in with a loss leader. That is irrelevant.


Only four providers that I've used or tested services of have given me relatively trouble free service, at least where stability and performance of the machines themselves are concerned:


Me (Duh, but I own my own facilities in One Wilshire)
Edis.AT
NQhost
BuyVM
BuyVM had a few hiccups, but aside from way more *scheduled* maintenance window downtimes than I was comfortable with, service itself was always good (but they ALWAYS did provide ample notice of scheduled downtime) and the machines weren't oversold out of the HE facilities in California. Truth be told every one of those were related to infrastructure upgrades anyway - just way too many. I observed on several occasions that some of the crew could be less than business-like and quite vindictive towards other customers (quite childish and unprofessional, actually), had a couple of snafus there due to some early change overs where logins became an issue (was the result of upgrading their interface), but Francisco is easy to contact, affable, and puts a stop to shenannigans of his staff with a good focus on customer care when someone brings it to his attention. I should also add that I tested several machines - even extremely underpowered machines with them - all were surprisingly snappy and responsive - and they were one of the first low end economy providers to offer IPv6 as *standard equipment*, if you will (Coz they're in HE.net in Fremont I think).

NQhost is providing a vps in Falkenstein Germany - good responsive machines and stable, Don't know anything about them because I've never had to open a ticket - 400+ days w/o any downtime or issues whatsoever. This is good because I don't think (if I even recall correctly) that they're not very effective at communicating in English - but I really can't remember because I've never had a single issue with their service lol.


Edis.AT is a nice polite operation, only had one outtage issue with them, related to a routing issue at the datacenter, I called, spoke to the owner, he was very nice and explained about the outtage at the datacenter (he was a little beside himself and obviously concerned about not being able to do anything for his customers but wait with them until the matter was handled by his upstream). The issue resolved itself in a matter of a couple of hours and the server there has been up for over a year w/o any reboots/downtime since the last time I rebooted. Realized bandwidth is noticably less than what is advertised, but transit is quick, machine is responsive, and I'm only doing DNS and a few minor monitoriing services anyway there.


Exigent.com.au is also a good provider from down under, for the most part, I've had a couple of minor issues, all handled and responded to very quickly by the proprietor himself, the worst one being the inconvenience of having to adjust IP addresses in several zone files because they were growing and exchanged their existing IP block for a larger one - in all fairness, they provided two months of running in parallel with both sets of IPs to provide time for customers like me to prepare for the cut-over - so it was just the hassle of having to change a couple of hundred zonefiles really, and not a server issue. The machine does appear to be a little sluggish for what it's doing with the resources it has, but not too bad. Bandwidth is limited and it's a long haul to Australia so ping times are what they are - it is what it is 


Web24.com.au - I have an underpowered emergency win2012 server there for use w/vSphere client and I login about twice a month - it costs me a buck a month. Not too bad, but it's hyper-v which totally sucks anyway. I had some major billing issues with them a few years back with a parallels vps back in the early days of virtualization - for some reason, no matter what anybody did, I would get these alerts saying the (Australian) credit card was declined (We're a U.S. Company, so we don't pay VAT or whatever they use there, and our company address was different than our billing address there in our Melbourne offices for the credit card), and then automated threats to turn off my machine would come pouring in two or three a day. After 8 or 9 months of that crap, my colleague there in Melbourne actually drove down to their offices twice - the second time I think he threatened them with bodily harm because after that the credit card went through every month no problem. They use that whacked out Parallels stuff which is really a nightmare to navigate when one has to, it also sucks because anytime you make changes to your config files it likes to break things - kinda like cpanel boxes used to be famous for with webhosting... Rule of thumb, don't do anything but pay bills in the control panel, make all adjustments/configs in the shell and you'll be fine as long as you don't ever use that stupid gui - but that's not web24's fault - it's Parallels', unless you want to blame them for choosing a confusing, convoluted, crap admin panel


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## Sonwebhost (May 30, 2013)

Boston as mention the east coast would be the area for next vps company


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## nunim (May 30, 2013)

I would love a proper LEB provider in Chicago, all the ones I have tried so far have been crap, or operating out of Colocrossing (so crap+no ipv6), certainly not an untapped area but it could use a solid provider in a decent datacenter (steadfast?).

There's billions of LEB hosts in Dallas/Kansas City but nothing proper in Chicago that I've found, granted I haven't tried EDIS Chicago location.


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## concerto49 (May 31, 2013)

nunim said:


> I would love a proper LEB provider in Chicago, all the ones I have tried so far have been crap, or operating out of Colocrossing (so crap+no ipv6), certainly not an untapped area but it could use a solid provider in a decent datacenter (steadfast?).
> 
> There's billions of LEB hosts in Dallas/Kansas City but nothing proper in Chicago that I've found, granted I haven't tried EDIS Chicago location.


Steadfast is very expensive. That's the problem. Colocrossing operates out of Server Central.

Let's see if we can find some data center in that area...


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