# ColoCrossing threatens to sue vpsBoard



## MannDude (Jun 15, 2016)

To my surprise, I notice a email in my inbox today from none other than a "Gregory Clark" of Colocrossing threatening to sue vpsBoard for 'libel' in regards to a user made review of one of their companies, HudsonValleyHost.


As you can imagine, this came as a bit of shock to me as vpsBoard itself does not publish reviews and instead is simply a platform and outlet for end users to publish their experiences with companies if they do wish to do so. Furthermore the letter was addressed to me personally, as the owner of vpsBoard, accusing myself personally of libel instead of requesting information about the end-user who supposedly committed the libel.





The thread in question that they don't want you to see was published in 2014 which can be read in full detail here:





As always, vpsBoard has been an open platform in which users can share their experience and providers can, and are encouraged, to respond and share their side of the story as well. There have been many examples of complaints and issues being resolved using this platform and their failure to engage or resolve the issue with the end user who wrote the review is on them, not me. They make the claim that I allow this knowing it to be 'factually untrue'. This is indeed false. Based on a wide selection of reviews made on this company and others under the parent company's control during this time period, on vpsBoard and other similar sites, it would not be unreasonable to believe that the words written are true. The burden of proving the readers that the review is factual, exaggerated, or completely false is not on me. The timeline of events are known only by those who had direct experience with the situation outlined in the above thread which would be the original poster and any number of staff that worked for ColoCrossing or Hudson Valley Host at the time.


I wonder if iNet / WebHostingTalk was served the same letter for the same thread made there, which can be read in full here: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1342625 This is a thread that WebHostingTalk temporarily "Featured", and interestingly enough the same thread was made on LowEndTalk itself right here: https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/20550/colocrossing-hudson-valley-host-where-is-my-refund/p1 and as you'll see, it's still up.


So this poses the question, why is Colocrossing picking on vpsBoard? Was it a funny game for them to send me a threatening legal letter on my birthday? (The letter was drafted on the 24th, original email that I overlooked was sent on the 25th) What are their true intentions?


And here I was, thinking that the hatchet had been buried after years of petty little back and forths.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

Sounds like Gregory needs introduced properly.  Welcome to hell buddy.  I'll be your tour guide and if you don't appreciate the trip, I might go back to regularly posting the myriad of dirty dealings again about your family business and cohorts.   I've gone nice and quiet for a long time (since August 2014 when Biloh asked if I'd let you lads breath for a few months), but appears you guys need some attention.


To start with this isn't a fucking blog Mrs. Linda Clarks relative.  Where did you come from?  Some other industry apparently.


Merriam Webster defines blog as:



> Full Definition of _blog_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See it says personal and writer... That's a single lonely person babbling in their modern version of a journal.  * This is is a forum, a public one at that.  Completely different monster.*


The post that you are having a hissy fit over is this one:





What's wrong there?  Your cohort and boss and relative Jon Biloh gave the customer the shitty experience.  Refused to refund the guys money after long delay and non delivery.  To top it off, the guy bought from HVH but then got billed by ColoCrossing.   Now this was at a time that I knew the two were running a shell game, however it was not public information.  It became public information during this incident and narrowly both of your shells somehow  avoided a much deserved WHT ban for violating rules.


Running a piece of garbage company that sits on peoples money and doesn't deliver, that's your issue and factual.  Whether it has changed, I can't say, but I doubt it. 


Whole incident was entirely avoidable... Had your crew not bashed the customer in public via Lowendtalk also.  More of using that asset to wage subtle warfare of naysayers and disgruntled.... That my new found friend is why that thread went viral, went on here, went up on WHT.   Because your team played asshole games and abused the customer.


Here's the sweet irony, this customer was told to NOT be refunded by Lord Biloh.  That's his tight wad behavior.   I know this as a fact.  The right to refund or issue such didn't exist until after this incident, it was Biloh's call and purse noose.


Sorry that in your sales process people are seeing these things.  This one is downright factual.  Shame.  They see plenty on other companies over at Lowendtalk and Lowendbox.   Want to go down that rabbit hole?  How many companies have been ruined due to moderation, comments, etc. on LE* over the years?   Hundreds?


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

I know why Greg has a problem with the above thread:


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hudsonvalleyhost


#2 =


ColoCrossing & Hudson Valley Host are dishonest, unethical, and ...
https://vpsboard.com/.../3369-colocrossing-38-hudson-valley-host-are-dishonest-unet...
Jan 27, 2014 - And supposedly, complaint threads regarding Hudson Valley Host and ColoCrossing on webhostingtalk forum also dissappear "mysteriously".


=========================


ANYONE SEARCHING IN GOOGLE FOR HUDSONVALLEYHOST IS GREETED BY THE ABOVE. ONLY SECOND TO THEIR OWN SITE.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

While Greg is at it,


#3 and #4 are also damning to Hudsonvalleyhost brand image:



My nightmare experience with Hudson Valley Host | Web Hosting Talk
www.webhostingtalk.com  Web Hosting Main Forums  Dedicated Server
Sep 11, 2015 - My nightmare experience with Hudson Valley Host - Hi, Hope others will benefit from this post. Hudson Valley Host (HVH) has very good ...

Colocrossing/Hudson Valley Host on Spamhaus block list | Web ...
www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1387328
Jun 23, 2014 - Colocrossing/Hudson Valley Host on Spamhaus block list - I have a managed VPS with Hudson Valley Host. I just had a client inform me that .


WHT should receive some love letters too...


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

This probably keeps them stirring at night too:


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hudsonvalleyhost+review


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

This probably makes it sting too:


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=colocrossing+review


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

Peace out!



Spoiler


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## HalfEatenPie (Jun 15, 2016)

I love how ColoCrossing runs their websites.  


Said no-one ever.


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## MannDude (Jun 15, 2016)

drmike said:


> This probably keeps them stirring at night too:
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hudsonvalleyhost+review



The second result listed is a negative review published on HudsonValleyHost's parent company's own website, LowEndTalk ( https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/52647/hudsonvalleyhost-com-very-bad-experience-buyers-be-aware ). Surprised they are asking me to remove one from this site, when they themselves have not or will not do the same on their own.


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## Kalam (Jun 15, 2016)

You dun fucked up MannDude, he's the *Director of Contracts*.


How dare you accuse a *Director of Contracts* of not being able to tell the difference between a blog and a public forum.


/s


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2016)

Kalam said:


> You dun fucked up MannDude, he's the *Director of Contracts*.
> 
> 
> How dare you accuse a *Director of Contracts* of not being able to tell the difference between a blog and a public forum.
> ...



Mann didn't do that, I did


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## Kalam (Jun 15, 2016)

drmike said:


> Mann didn't do that, I did



I know. Apparently that was a bad attempt of making a meta joke (accusing MannDude of doing something he didn't).


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2016)

@Kalam Hahaha  I see what you did there.


These CC guys, so sad.  


I wonder how much they claim negative (albeit it truthful and well placing content) costs them a year?


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## DomainBop (Jun 16, 2016)

> I notice a email in my inbox today from none other than a "Gregory Clark" of Colocrossing threatening to sue vpsBoard for 'libel'



1. somebody needs to clue him in to the concept of ISP immunity and user contributed content as it applies to forums...47 U.S. Code § 230


2. Review published January 27 2014 and he waits 2 1/2 years to threaten a libel suit? Sorry buddy, but the statute of limitations for defamation in Indiana, where you would need to bring the suit is 2 years.  The statute of limitations in Indiana is slightly different than other states  in that it begins when the plaintiff becomes aware of the allegedly defamatory statements (rather than the date of publication) but as I recall similar statements were posted by the author of that thread on both WHT and LET and ColoCrossing employee(s) took part in those threads and responded to statements made by the author of that thread so it would be safe to assume that they (Velocity Servers Inc) were aware of the allegedly libelous statements 2 1/2 years ago in January 2014.


3. Why did an employee (who is not a lawyer) of Velocity Servers Inc send this cease and desist letter? Normally it would be sent by the corporation's legal counsel.


4. OC Spray MannDude will be receiving a letter from my attorneys for falsely advertising this blog as a forum to prospective users.  I have suffered irreparable harm as a result of his false advertising. I never would have joined VPSB if I had known it was a blog...I'm allergic to posting blog comments. FYI, the statute of limitations for written contracts (contract = that TOS I agreed to when I joined buddy!!!) in Indiana is  10 years.


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## DomainBop (Jun 16, 2016)

@MannDude please submit Gregory Clark's lovely C&D letter to Lumen (formerly known as ChillingEffects) so it can be published: https://lumendatabase.org/notices/new  (_for anyone unfamiliar with Lumen/Chilling Effects, one of the site's partners is EFF.  My company has submitted many C&D letters that we've received to their database_)


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## MannDude (Jun 16, 2016)

DomainBop said:


> @MannDude please submit Gregory Clark's lovely C&D letter to Lumen (formerly known as ChillingEffects) so it can be published: https://lumendatabase.org/notices/new  (_for anyone unfamiliar with Lumen/Chilling Effects, one of the site's partners is EFF.  My company has submitted many C&D letters that we've received to their database_)



Thanks for the heads up, much appreciated.


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## jarland (Jun 16, 2016)

That sure was kind of him to toss some fuel on the fire that created this place. It's been a little dead lately. Even I logged in to offer a "lol" at Gregory.


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## ChrisM (Jun 16, 2016)

LOL! So a company whose business model thrives from fraud and spam and seems to purposely market toward those looking to do that, is threatening to sue over a post saying that they did that? Such irony..


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## Jonathan (Jun 16, 2016)

Just gonna leave this here...


LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## Jonathan (Jun 16, 2016)

Maybe I'll sue them for the spam that comes out of their network at me all the time causing great mental distress?


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## zafouhar (Jun 16, 2016)

KnownHost-Jonathan said:


> Maybe I'll sue them for the spam that comes out of their network at me all the time causing great mental distress?



Definitely, they shouldn't really be threatening anyone because honestly talking I am sure there are quite a number of people with real cases that they can sue ColoCrossing...


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## DomainBop (Jun 16, 2016)

jarland said:


> Even I logged in to offer a "lol" at Gregory.



It's a LOL on many levels: complete ignorance of ISP immunity laws, past the statute of limitations, C&D sent by employee not attorney (_which makes CC look like amateur hour_), pathetic attempt to intimidate a site owner into taking down a user submitted review that was unfavorable to a company, etc.


FYI, that same unhappy customer love4cars also filed a BBB complaint on  2/27/14  that echoed what he had said in his VPSB/WHT/LET posts   ( full text of the complaint details available here http://www.bbb.org/upstate-new-york/business-reviews/internet-services/velocity-servers-inc-in-buffalo-ny-235969066/complaints#breakdown  ._..wonder if the BBB also received a C&D letter from Clark...LOL_)


The biggest LOL though is that if CC actually followed through on their lawsuit threat and somehow won the case they would have essentially shot themselves in the head if the court decided that ISP immunity didn't apply to forums and that forums could be held liable if they didn't verify the accuracy of all user generated content before it was posted publicly on sites.  Clark must have forgotten that his employer operates a forum where it's rare for an hour to pass without someone screaming _"provider abc (or customer abc) is a scammer!!!"._..imagine the flood of lawsuits that would be filed against not just LET but every site that allows user generated content if these clowns won their case.


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2016)

What little Gregory should be worried about is this:


*ColoCrossing allows IP spoofing and is involved in many DDoS attacks.*


This is nothing new, and not legal, but this paper is:


Stress Testing the Booters: Understanding and ... - Damon McCoy
damonmccoy.com/papers/www2016-booter.pdf


In it bona-fide academics spin up 2 instances on ColoCrossing's network for DDoS attacks.


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2016)

Big question is --- has ColoCrossing finally closed the spoofing ability?  Not my cup of tea or interest to go donate to yacht money to prove / disprove.


If so, if spoofing is blocked, explains the sudden call to sobriety and being concerned with reputation earned over a decade of shenanigans and self funding via fraud and conspiring in criminal activity.


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## tmzVPS-Daniel (Jun 16, 2016)

I think they simply want attention, since Dr Mike stopped working on them a few months ago . This was enough to get him started again haha. 


- Daniel


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## KuJoe (Jun 16, 2016)

Looks like somebody is trying to justify being on the payroll. Kids will be kids.


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## Flapadar (Jun 16, 2016)

drmike said:


> What little Gregory should be worried about is this:
> 
> 
> *ColoCrossing allows IP spoofing and is involved in many DDoS attacks.*
> ...



I'm quite surprised academics got the go-ahead to use actual booters and do network attacks over the internet.


Back when I was in academia my final year paper/project/dissertation was largely on DDoS methods and detection/mitigation tactics in IaaS environments; but in order to keep in line with the universities legal and ethical policies I had to perform everything in a sandboxed/disconnected environment.


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## DomainBop (Jun 16, 2016)

I noticed that news of Gregory Clark's little C&D letter has already made it to Reddit and YCombinator (Hacker News) so here's a little term that may come in handy in the future for any company that gets the bright idea of trying to have negative customer reviews removed by attempting to intimidate site owners with poorly written C&D notices that contain bullsh*t legal threats that would get laughed out of any court : "Streisand Effect"


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2016)

DomainBop said:


> I noticed that news of Gregory Clark's little C&D letter has already made it to Reddit and YCombinator (Hacker News) so here's a little term that may come in handy in the future for any company that gets the bright idea of trying to have negative customer reviews removed by attempting to intimidate site owners with poorly written C&D notices that contain bullsh*t legal threats that would get laughed out of any court : "Streisand Effect"



Have links?


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## TheLinuxBug (Jun 16, 2016)

LOL, you guys posted that and instant DDOS....


https://www.reddit.com/domain/vpsboard.com/ 


That is the reddit link as far as I can tell.  As per the ycombinator one I wasn't able to find it.


Cheers!


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2016)

TheLinuxBug said:


> LOL, you guys posted that and instant DDOS....



Some other network had BGP drop and is a commenter on this thread.. at the very same time...


We'll call this one unrelated impossible math... Next one we'll serve something special up for.  Free pie!


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## lbft (Jun 16, 2016)

Flapadar said:


> I'm quite surprised academics got the go-ahead to use actual booters and do network attacks over the internet.



Yeah, that part stood out for me too. They actually say that they got legal advice and ethics approval, when I would've thought that either would've crapped their pants at the idea:



> As part of the ethical framework for our study, we consulted with our institution’s general counsel and placed restrictions on the types of booter services we actively interacted with along with what we included in this paper. [...] We received an exemption from our Institutional Review Board (IRB), since our study did not include any personally identifiable information and was based on publicly leaked data and scraped data that was publicly accessible


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## drmike (Jun 17, 2016)

lbft said:


> Yeah, that part stood out for me too. They actually say that they got legal advice and ethics approval, when I would've thought that either would've crapped their pants at the idea:



I use to work actively with academics.  So yes, surprised too.


However, academia is getting more liberal  about things like this because of the mass impact.   Plenty of dollars have flowed to top unis for studying DDoS attacks and next generation protection.  Very well might have had financial underwriting related to such.


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## splitice (Jun 17, 2016)

drmike said:


> I use to work actively with academics.  So yes, surprised too.
> 
> 
> However, academia is getting more liberal  about things like this because of the mass impact.   Plenty of dollars have flowed to top unis for studying DDoS attacks and next generation protection.  Very well might have had financial underwriting related to such.



I still contract for a University, no way this would have made it through ethics here either.


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## DomainBop (Jun 17, 2016)

KuJoe said:


> Looks like somebody is trying to justify being on the payroll. Kids will be kids.



It would be more understandable if an inexperienced kid had sent that C&D, but the sender is someone with a Master's degree in international business who has 23 years of management level experience at Fortune 500 companies.


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## drmike (Jun 17, 2016)

23 years of being a yes man instead of being a man.


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## KuJoe (Jun 17, 2016)

Age is not a factor. If he wants to act like a child he will be treated like a child and until he's mature enough to be considered an adult he's still a kid in my eyes.


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## MannDude (Jun 17, 2016)

I have not yet heard back from Greg.


I emailed him back 2 days ago.



> RE: Fwd: Request to remove Libelous Blog String-VPS Board
> 
> I do apologize for the delay in my response. This is an email that I do not usually check and the PO box expired some time ago. I'll need to update the WhoIS information for the domain name.
> 
> ...



EDIT: And yes, the subject of the email was literally, "Request to remove Libelous Blog String-VPS Board"


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## Licensecart (Jun 17, 2016)

Bunch of wankers ignore them mate if they do I'm sure we'll all help


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## Hxxx (Jun 18, 2016)

So many click likes i had to give. My finger is hurting. All your fault.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jun 18, 2016)

We all know vpsBoard is a blog guys.


It's a blog where I upload my breakfast, lunch, and dinner. 


Like the other day, I had a sandwich.  The sandwich was a ham sandwich.  


Was pretty good, but the meat was a bit dry.


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## drmike (Jun 18, 2016)

There is so much irony... so much...


To complain about a legitimate review and bad customer experience that many of us lived through and saw situation mature... That's problematic to just make it go away, cause it was all true.  Don't want negative reviews and accounts of fails, then stop being abusive to customers, stop hoarding cash when you fail, start acting competent and being responsive to customers.


The irony is this: crap company ColoCrossing engages in simultaneously writing and having wrote (paid shill deal) fake reviews.  


I'll split this off to a new thread later on.


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## drmike (Jun 18, 2016)

HalfEatenPie said:


> We all know vpsBoard is a blog guys.
> 
> 
> It's a blog where I upload my breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
> ...



Thank you for protecting your neighbors from el jihadis.  Pork keeps the hood healthy.  Helps keep you in the right data center too.


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## drmike (Jun 18, 2016)

As promised, my followup about reviews and what CC should be mad about: THEMSELVES and THEIR CONDUCT:


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## lowesthost (Jun 20, 2016)

Late to the party 


But looking at IN Law the the Statutes of limitations has ran out so tell them to pound sand. 


You have proof in the post CVPS_Chris  A CC employee commented on the post  January 27, 2014


I'm sure they can find a sleazy lawyer to take their money and hassle you so if they do I will donate to the Man dude legal fund


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## William (Jun 20, 2016)

lowesthost said:


> I will donate to the Man dude legal fund



not like they have a case (or rather not further than 1-2 court instances), but same


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## vpsadm (Jun 20, 2016)

MannDude said:


> I have not yet heard back from Greg. I emailed him back 2 days ago. EDIT: And yes, the subject of the email was literally, "Request to remove Libelous Blog String-VPS Board"



These may be silly questions, but:


Are you sure that this letter came from ColoCrossing?


Have you confirmed that Greg has the legal authority to speak on their behalf in regards to this matter? 


A company I once worked for signed a contract with a very large, well-known conglomerate. The signatory for the conglomerate was a Senior Vice President (I forget his exact title). Later when things were not working out for the conglomerate and they wanted to back out of the contract, they claimed that the Senior VP did not have the legal authority to sign the contract. It was bizarre, to say the least.


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## DomainBop (Jun 20, 2016)

vpsadm said:


> These may be silly questions, but:
> 
> 
> Are you sure that this letter came from ColoCrossing?
> ...



Yes to both questions.  The "Director of Business Development and Contracts" appears to have sent the email with the full knowledge of the company President Biloh.  MannDude posted a copy of the email on LET (_in the Cestpit, not accesible to non LET members so I'm reposting it here_) and the headers did show it was sent from them.  He also posted on WHT that _" Jon Biloh himself hit me up on Skype to inform me that I was contacted by Gregory Clark of Colocrossing."_


__


_^^I'll admit that I chuckled when I looked at that because they are forced to use Google Apps as their mail server because the IP reputations in their spammy network are so bad..."dig colocrossing.com mx"  _


*edited to add:* I just noticed the idiotic confidential legal disclaimer in that email which is further proof that we're dealing with tards.  Disclaimers like that are legally meaningless and no court would enforce them because you can't unilaterally impose a contractual agreement on another party.


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## MannDude (Jun 21, 2016)

vpsadm said:


> These may be silly questions, but:
> 
> 
> Are you sure that this letter came from ColoCrossing?
> ...



It definitely came from them. Jon Biloh himself initiated a conversation with me on Skype to request I respond promptly to the email. See the screenshot that I posted on LowEndTalk when it came up in the CestPit that @DomainBop shared in this thread as well as the screenshot below:









I asked Jon on LET to respond to the claim and verify that what I am saying is true or untrue, he has decided not to respond. I don't think it's necessary, the information I've provided is proof enough. I have no interest in antagonizing him or Greg Clark of Colocrossing / HudsonValleyHost for a formal response to this, as their silence speaks louder than anything they could say about the matter.


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## drmike (Jun 21, 2016)

Tell him you'll barter.


You'll remove the review when I get to OC spray Biloh and put the video out here.


I'll bring the spray.  I have some special stuff he'll enjoy.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jun 22, 2016)

To be honest, what they say about this situation we can then say the same for LowEndTalk.  


LET has some users who dislike vpsBoard (and that's perfectly fine).  But in a similar way they're accusing vpsBoard of being liable for libel you can also suggest LowEndTalk is for vpsBoard.  I've seen posts before by members of LET who says crap about it but you don't see us going to Biloh and saying "Take that down right now!"  


Let it all settle.  This is old news/business.  It's not my concern anymore and really shouldn't be anyone else's concern.  It's all water under the bridge and while yeah we don't have high regards for each other, I'm perfectly content with just leaving it alone.


Unless Biloh is so scared of "some small blog".  I thought these ColoCrossing guys acted all tough and big-time?  I thought they didn't even care?  Now they care?  Pfft.  Ok.


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## drmike (Jun 22, 2016)

HalfEatenPie said:


> Let it all settle.  This is old news/business.  It's not my concern anymore and really shouldn't be anyone else's concern.  It's all water under the bridge and while yeah we don't have high regards for each other, I'm perfectly content with just leaving it alone.
> 
> 
> Unless Biloh is so scared of "some small blog".  I thought these ColoCrossing guys acted all tough and big-time?  I thought they didn't even care?  Now they care?  Pfft.  Ok.



It's simple, like I've said, that legitimate customer experience / review is showing up in their sales department.  Preventing leads from converting into sales.  Can't go from $6 mil last year to $12 mil this year so easily having to sell honest and clean.


Biloh is also OCD.


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## texteditor (Jun 23, 2016)

it isn't libel if it's true


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## splitice (Jun 23, 2016)

While I hope and personally think this will amount to nothing, Its never fun to be threatened with legal action.


Just remember there is no substitute for actual legal advice, see a solicitor or a legal advice clinic. With a solicitor, it shouldn't be that expensive (all things considered) to shoot it down. The costs of being wrong are quite high when it comes to the law.


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## tonyg (Jun 27, 2016)

Here's for the boys trying to stir up the shit:


http://i.imgur.com/sRYvkiC.gifv


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## CenTex Hosting (Jun 28, 2016)

KnownHost-Jonathan said:


> Maybe I'll sue them for the spam that comes out of their network at me all the time causing great mental distress?



LOL


If every user that has had this issue did this they would go crazy with all the legal responses they would have to do.


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## Epidrive (Jun 28, 2016)

I wonder how you (curtis) will be legally held liable for a "libelous" review made by another person. You run an open forum hence you do not control the content posted around here. Yes, there might not have been an authenticity check on the review before allowing it to be posted, but that is never a requirement in running a forum.


Can someone please enlighten me with regards to the legal basis for charging someone with libel? In this case, is curtis to be held any liable?


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## HN-Matt (Jun 29, 2016)

tmzVPS-Daniel said:


> I think they simply want attention, since Dr Mike stopped working on them a few months ago . This was enough to get him started again haha.



@drmike is just jealous that they didn't excerpt a passage from his rigorous book-length critique of ColoCrossing.


On the contrary, it was the devastating and inimitable ~5 sentence review from leading vpsBoard forums poster @love4cars4234 that proved to be the greatest cause for concern.


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