# BUDGETGEEK TELECOMS LIMITED / 32MB Club / Random Bans



## drmike (Sep 4, 2014)

Are we a user short now?  Someone handing out random-bans, because they can? Yeah I am speaking about the @mtwiscool fellow.



Then there was weird shit going on in IRC banning the whole of Quadranet from vpsB IRC.

Not calling anyone out, but one of you, your moderation methods are getting mixed up with your personal axe grindings.  Perhaps you should start a personal private club instead of being involved in a public site.

If you are into banning users for non violations, have at it, I vote to be banned.   But I'll take my self imposed 2 week silence protest elsewhere.

Shame.  This isn't why I put my time and energy into vpsB.  I could have had this random child-like experience over on LE*.


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## WebSearchingPro (Sep 4, 2014)

drmike said:


> [...] your moderation methods are getting mixed up with your personal axe grindings.
> 
> [...]
> 
> If you are into banning users for non violations, have at it, I vote to be banned.   But I'll take my self imposed 2 week silence protest elsewhere.


+1 for me.


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## Maximum_VPS (Sep 4, 2014)

drmike said:


> Are we a user short now?  Someone handing out random-bans, because they can? Yeah I am speaking about the @[member=mtwiscool] fellow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is why we choose not to participate within vpsboard, the moderation of the irc to us reflects the moderation of the site.



drmike said:


> If you are into banning users for non violations, have at it, I vote to be banned.   But I'll take my self imposed 2 week silence protest elsewhere.


+1


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## Dylan (Sep 4, 2014)

I kind of have to agree.

Not letting him post offers in order to protect other users -- that I could agree with since the offer guidelines specifically talk about "trustworthy vendors."

Banning him from the forums entirely -- that seems overreaching.


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

If you think he's banned for that advertisement then you don't know Matthew very well. I'm willing to bet he got banned on here for the same reasons he's banned on basically every other forum. It's a familiar song that goes something like this:

1) Thread gets closed.

2) Matthew contacts moderator and rages.

3) Moderator explains the situation.

4) Matthew makes threats against the moderator's physical well being.

5) One-way ticket to Bantown, USA.

Additionally, if you can honestly say with a straight face that Matthew contributed anything positive to this forum aside from bringing the trolls out from lurking to increase the overall post count, then you are just kidding yourself.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 4, 2014)

Let me just say, if I *EVER* start to act like he did, someone haul me out behind the chemical shed and shoot me.

I for one am overjoyed by this turn of events.


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

EDIT: Nevermind, not a big fan of ice cream.


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## TheLinuxBug (Sep 4, 2014)

I have to say, I sit in the irc channel and didn't witness whatever is being raged about here per irc, but if this is truly about mtwiscool being banned then you have reached deaf ears with me.  We have tried to help the kid many times to actually make posts that makes sense and to help him understand that not proofreading his posts and wasting our time was also annoying. Also I believe the reason he was banned was because he was warned many times not to use his threads for constant announcements and continued to do so after being warned.

@KuJoe 's summary is pretty accurate per my experience, he seems to have no respect for the mods and rages against them if he doesn't agree with their decisions.

I personally harbor no compassion for the guy because of the way he acted here.

my 2 cents.

Cheers!


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## MannDude (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm on a short break, will be available longer come lunch time.

As mentioned to someone else in the past, we can't possibly list everything in the world that would justify moderator action. It's a privately owned site and the three of us (Myself, Martin and HalfEatenPie) use our best judgment when it comes to collective decision making. The ban was not carried out by any single individual's own desire and was only carried out after many requests for action to be taken was reviewed and after the three of us (Myself, Martin and HalfEatenPie) had a private discussion in regards to the topic. I'm still slightly on the fence with it so as far as I am concerned it's on a trial basis. If vpsBoard is anything like LET, he'll have multiple accounts here already.

In regards to IRC... that's a playground. It can't be taken serious at all and most people should be ashamed of what is said, done and discussed there. It's not meant to be a serious source of... anything. Some companies would be dead simply by what their owners or representatives say and discuss in there if it was shown to their customers. In regards to the ban in there, I promptly recalled it as it was not needed. As far as I am concerned, Adam is more than welcome here and in IRC as he has not done anything wrong here or there.


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## Munzy (Sep 4, 2014)

Alright, lets give this a go.

First off for the past week or two I have been talking to @mtwiscool on skype. He and I have been discussing things and generally I am trying to push him to the right way of things instead of the left way of things. It hasn't been easy or pleasurable of a task, but some of us need a little more hand holding then others. I do not have a screen shot of the post he made, and though I may laugh with @mojeda on some of the shit he says, I do not think he deserves to be banned for making an offer post. Unless I am mistaken that he broke a rule about posting offers, I do believe that you have zero grounds except past actions to ban him. 

Second off, @mtwiscool is making an effort. He felt like posting a "immediate release" about his new company. However, he didn't and when I asked why, he responded with "not allowed becaus of the dick called halfeatenpie". So he is honestly trying to build a filter, and it trying to do his best and work on improving himself. Though I understand he has broken yours, and even my patience at times, he deserves some credit for trying. He has been working hard, and is taking steps to follow the moderators wishes. 

Third, I hear/read that you had talks in private, and I do realize @MannDude that you are a push over, but frankly this is your forum Manndude. Not Heps, and not Martin's. I honestly think you, as the the owner, should reconsider this ban. I can fully agree and live with him not being able to make offers, even unverified, and that might be the best for him. However, to ban outright is just wrong in my opinion, and especially when all he did this time was post a unverified offer, like all the rest of us can do.

Forth, peer pressure is a bitch.  Just because everyone wants him banned, and even me included, doesn't mean you bend over and get fucked by the stampede. Generally it is best to step to the side and let the stampede go running past. You claim your self as a low moderation forum, but it currently looks like the sheep has grown some big ass horns, and is wanting to shank anyone in its way. 

I highly encourage you to rethink your stance on him and give him a shot. 

I'd also like manndude to add me on skype, I need to discuss something with you in private about events that occurred after you and your posse initiated this ban.  

Edit:

The post in question can be seen here:

http://www.cameronmunroe.com/u/2014-09-04_17-34-10.png

http://www.cameronmunroe.com/u/2014-09-04_17-35-35.png

http://www.cameronmunroe.com/u/2014-09-04_17-37-39.png

http://www.cameronmunroe.com/u/2014-09-04_17-38-11.png


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 4, 2014)

You do know he's just a remarkably persistant troll, right?  And that his 'forgot to pretend to be retarded' slipups here aren't the first time he's been called out on it?

Seriously, go browse his post/thread history on other forums.  It's the same "mistakes", over and over.  People offering him the same assistance, over and over.  The pattern rinsing/repeating after each ban, over and over.  If it wasn't for his antics here being such a blatant carbon copy of his past activities, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  But no - short of being able to interrogate him in person to find out for sure, I remain convinced these are just the actions of a habitual troll.  If you _really_ start digging into his stories, you'll find enough inconsistencies to knock the foundation out from under the lies.


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## Munzy (Sep 4, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> You do know he's just a remarkably persistant troll, right?  And that his 'forgot to pretend to be retarded' slipups here aren't the first time he's been called out on it?
> 
> Seriously, go browse his post/thread history on other forums.  It's the same "mistakes", over and over.  People offering him the same assistance, over and over.  The pattern rinsing/repeating after each ban, over and over.  If it wasn't for his antics here being such a blatant carbon copy of his past activities, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  But no - short of being able to interrogate him in person to find out for sure, I remain convinced these are just the actions of a habitual troll.  If you _really_ start digging into his stories, you'll find enough inconsistencies to knock the foundation out from under the lies.


Proof reading is not a choice, it is a discipline. If your discipline is not up to shape you will post just about anything.

Second, why do you care so much about him to look into his past dealings, don't you have something better to do. I for one was a little annoyed that I waited over 24 hours for my ticket to be responded to at buyvm, yet here you were claiming to be at work posting away, instead of doing your job. Just my 2 cents, and a reason I'd rather pay Ryan, instead of you. 

Third, you are not as great as you claim to be throwing around your "I'm so awesome" routine. You remind me of a few other individuals, and if you are called out or pointed a finger at you pout like a big baby. Why don't you stop blowing smoke, and instead improve your own ass. I for one think you would have a great time building a really well built internal monitor to replace buyvmstatus. 

Edit:

Honestly though, I just want to say I love you @Francisco, you are a great guy, and do a great fucking job man.  Aldryic, not so much, you are mainly riding off of Francisco's own pure awesomeness and willingness to help.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 4, 2014)

Munzy said:


> I for one was a little annoyed that I waited over 24 hours for my ticket to be responded to at buyvm, yet here you were claiming to be at work posting away, instead of doing your job. Just my 2 cents, and a reason I'd rather pay Ryan, instead of you.


Actually, I'm looking at your account now.  You had one ticket on file (716478) that you opened on January 18th at 16:05h PST.  Anthony responded to your ticket at 21:58h PST.  While I agree that an ~6 hour wait on a response for an issue that simple is unacceptable (a problem that we have taken great strides in the past 6 months to fixing), that's nowhere near "over 24 hours".



Munzy said:


> Why don't you stop blowing smoke, and instead improve your own ass. I for one think you would have a great time building a really well built internal monitor to replace buyvmstatus.


BuyVMStatus was a client-made project, and forcibly discontinued due to it's unreliability.  It never was an 'official' part of the system, nor did we ever acknowledge as such it due to said inaccuracies.



Munzy said:


> Honestly though, I just want to say I love you @Francisco, you are a great guy, and do a great fucking job man.  Aldryic, not so much, you are mainly riding off of Francisco's own pure awesomeness and willingness to help.


Everybody loves Fran.  I, meanwhile, am the designated hardass of the company - my strictness balances his generosity.  And just like I told mtwisatool awhile back - trying to 'call me out' on that is pretty damn pointless.  Calling me a asshole isn't an insult - it's simply the truth.

But, your personal issues aside, let's answer the bit of that rambling that was on topic:



Munzy said:


> Second, why do you care so much about him to look into his past dealings, don't you have something better to do.


My shift ended 'bout an hour ago, actually.  As far as 'why I care so much' - curiosity, mainly.  When I first noticed his irregular habit of forgetting to put on the 'pitiful mentally challenged kid' facade, it made me wonder if that was a recent thing (someone quietly giving him a hand, and maybe occasionally posting for him), or had been going on for some time.  Turns out, the latter held true - and that lead to a cursory examination of his other activities, to get a better idea for what was actually going on.  I realize you have an ingrained animosity towards me (still can't bring myself to shed a tear for you, sorry) - but you could fairly easily do the same research and see for yourself.


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## lbft (Sep 4, 2014)

drmike said:


> Then there was weird shit going on in IRC banning the whole of Quadranet from vpsB IRC.
> 
> ...
> 
> If you are into banning users for non violations, have at it, I vote to be banned.   But I'll take my self imposed 2 week silence protest elsewhere.


Oh look, it's yet another fucking drmike tantrum.

Are you seriously complaining about:


Banning someone who has repeatedly refused to follow the rules of the forum or the rules of civility, and who has filled the place up with not just shitposts but whole shitthreads?
IRC, where you don't even participate because you're too scared to say what your nickname is there? Where the only subjects discussed most of the time are nonsense?


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## Munzy (Sep 4, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Actually, I'm looking at your account now.  You had one ticket on file (716478) that you opened on January 18th at 16:05h PST.  Anthony responded to your ticket at 21:58h PST.  While I agree that an ~6 hour wait on a response for an issue that simple is unacceptable (a problem that we have taken great strides in the past 6 months to fixing), that's nowhere near "over 24 hours".
> 
> BuyVMStatus was a client-made project, and forcibly discontinued due to it's unreliability.  It never was an 'official' part of the system, nor did we ever acknowledge as such it due to said inaccuracies.
> 
> ...


I honestly don't remember it being 6 hours, maybe I just was really impatient.  All I know is I sure felt like that was slow for your service and standards.

Being an asshole to balance out someones generosity is no excuse. I tested that same idea on my gaming network, and what we as a whole proved was, ass holes don't counter balance kindness as they like to jump off the scale and watch you go flying as they laugh at your soon to be pain and anger. 

<hr />

In regards to mtwiscool, in him chatting with me about his post:

[6:39:33 PM] mtwiscool: why do people think i am a troll?


[6:40:34 PM] mtwiscool: from the thread:

[6:40:35 PM] mtwiscool: You do know he's just a remarkably persistant troll, right?  And that his 'forgot to pretend to be retarded' slipups here aren't the first time he's been called out on it?

[6:40:39 PM] mtwiscool: ok

[6:41:25 PM] mtwiscool: I never said i was retarded in fact i said i was smart and my spelling improves over time and that i post on multiple devices including phones and tablets.



I personally also hate his ineptitude about spelling and grammar, but that is because I don't want to have to read through all of it trying to figure out what he meant.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 4, 2014)

Munzy said:


> I honestly don't remember it being 6 hours, maybe I just was really impatient.  All I know is I sure felt like that was slow for your service and standards.


It was slow.  Like I said, a 6 hour response time is unacceptable, regardless of shift, and that's something we've been working rather hard to correct.



Munzy said:


> Being an asshole to balance out someones generosity is no excuse. I tested that same idea on my gaming network, and what we as a whole proved was, ass holes don't counter balance kindness as they like to jump off the scale and watch you go flying as they laugh at your soon to be pain and anger.


Ah, you misunderstand.  I'm not making excuses, or offering any sort of apology for my behavior - merely making it clear that yes I can be a dick, and no my motives are not malicious.  I simply speak my mind without sugar-coating everything.  If you wish to take offense to what I say, that's your preogative.



> [6:41:25 PM] mtwiscool: I never said i was retarded in fact i said i was smart and my spelling improves over time and that i post on multiple devices including phones and tablets.


See, things like that are where I stop believing his stories.  Think about that for a minute - according to his own backstory, he's been a 'child of the state' for some time, living in a children's home.  Where exactly is he getting the funding for _"multiple devices including phones and tablets"_?  Very little of what he says adds up to truthful, or even plausible.  So anything from him that's not patently provable, I discount as another fabrication.

The spelling and grammar are only relevant due to their inconsistency.  His entire speech patterns change when he gets really frustrated - and that's the biggest giveaway.  There is no 'autocorrect' (or lack of) that completely changes your oratory flow.


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## drmike (Sep 4, 2014)

lbft said:


> Oh look, it's yet another fucking drmike tantrum.
> 
> Are you seriously complaining about:
> 
> ...


Congrats on replying.  Hoping more folks do, regardless of their stance.  I am not running a popularity contest, so I don't really give a flying .... how you feel about me @lbft.

1.  Where are these civility rules?   Lack of rules, now equals civility rules.  I mean I'd rather folks just say we banned @mtwiscool because we DON'T LIKE HIM.   Instead we are having a dog and pony dance competition about why he was banned, why the kid acts English challenged and if he knowingly has better or worse grammar based on which device he's chipping at... All while (validly) wondering if he's a ward of the State and if his stories are true or false about said personal family / living matters (which he himself has put out there over time).

This is while a moderator admitted when they approved the offer thread that mtwiscool was within the guidelines, but then banned.

And yes, @mtwiscool doesn't listen or seem to.  But I am not his parent nor are the rest of you.  Not grounds for a GTFO banning, just because. 

We start doing this sort of stuff where is the limit?   Is it next week we are handing out user IPs like the other site is known for?  Is it collaborating with cliques of folks to be subversive whenever and operate some bully mob?  The former is foremost concern and the later bowing to bully packs seems to be why this ban is being allowed:

_"The ban was not carried out by any single individual's own desire and was only *carried out after many requests for action to be taken*"_

I'd do the same pointing, fussing, tantrum for the autistic (seeming) lad or for anyone else here.  Fair is fair.

2. As for IRC,  whole bunch of people don't want IRC chatting seen out in the open. So BOO!   I fail to see much good or constructive anything from the IRC channel.  Thusly, I lurk and others copy me random shit-happenings from IRC. If that IRC channel is an indication of the audience and where this place is headed,  it isn't pretty.

I pointed out the IRC banning because the whole of Quadranet was blocked.  Pretty bold block unless there was some legitimate reason to be blocking such... Like say an attack.  I didn't see that sort of thing and others said something foul was going on, so there I went to posting, because fair is fair.

Now no one has to be fair.  We can call this place a private club, lock the doors, require credentials and do a whole lot more rough housing.  That's Mann's choice, this is his baby, not mine.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 4, 2014)

Ok so I made this huge thread about my issues with Matthew and thanks to butter fingers (page reload) I lost it all.  

 

So I’ll just give the general beef.

 

*The IRC Ban*

 

Lets start off with the statement that the IRC Channel #vpsboard on FreeNode is an unofficial channel.  Its basically the local bar some of the people in this community goes to after work to hang out.  It's the water cooler at work.  It's not everyone, and quite often majority of the people in that IRC Channel don't really post here.  With that said, the Matthew's ban on IRC was done several months ago (or at least I believe it was several months ago, time has gone so fast).  When he came into the IRC Channel every other sentence was about 32MB Club and what he just finished for it.  Hell it was constantly "We now have ____ at 32MB Club!" or some variation of that.  Even when I asked him to tone it down a bit he'd continue on.  It was simple disregard for admin request.  He then ended up pasting some file or something into IRC (which if you don't know, would send each line as it's own chat "line" and is commonly considered spamming).  Therefore, I removed him from the channel.  It was my decision to remove him from the IRC Channel (in addition to a few requests from individuals asking for him to be removed).  

 

For those of you who do not participate in our IRC Channel, 99% of it is us screwing around and joking around.  Business does happen on occassion, but majority of it is just horseplay.  Then Matthew comes in and tries to throw his 32MB Club banners around.  It's quite annoying.  The bar owner requests he please stop or at least tone it down.  Instead he disregards that and continues on.  But then he brings in a megaphone and shouts a long piece of text (the pasting).  He's therefore removed from the bar.  Similar idea.

 

*The Forum Ban*

 

Since Matthew was banned from LET, his involvement in this community was drastically improved.  The reason he was banned from LET was because he threatened Maarten Kossen on the internet or something.  I mean come on, threatening someone?  What situation calls for you to threaten another human being's life?  Regardless, the LET bags were left at the doors (I may or may not have annoyingly brought it up every once in a while to poke fun, but that was about it).  

 

So as Matthew's involvement in vpsBoard increased, so did the number of Admin Reports on his posts.  What's crazy is that it wasn't from a single person, or a small group of individual, but a decent chunk of individuals on this forum who were reporting him.  Sometimes, we even had four (or five?) people reporting the same content written by Matthew.  

 

When we approached Matthew to tone it down on the forum, he seemed to acknowledge it and follow it for a short period of time.  Then he'd be back doing the exact same thing again.  He's also constantly asked for individual inputs and the wealth of knowledge we have available here.  Then completely disregard it and go the opposite direction.  He informed me he looks up to Jon Ngyuen (don't remember the proper spelling of his last name... my bad... basically GVH_Jon) as a role model.  I mean, great for him for having a role model and someone to help him out, but it was going about it the wrong way.  

 

So the reports continued to grow and every time we would perform a admin action on his posts he would then contact another admin and complain.  Note (I'm sure Martin and MannDude both do this), whenever a post is removed I usually send a PM explaining why.  Then he assumes it's off of my own whim I was removing his posts.  There were several times when no moderator actions were done on his posts because it did not technically break the rules.  

 

It came to a point where Matthew ended up creating a new thread for every single change in his life and his "company".  Where he was going to live, his birthday, everything.  Now I'm not saying I'm against him being excited for changes in his life, but we received many complaints from Forum members informing us that vpsBoard is in fact... not his blog.  This came to a point where (I don't recall the exact link), I informed Matthew via a public forum post that his continued announcements of such frequency and manner would result in a ban from me under the rule "Do not spam".  Then it went into a PM discussion about how he thought I was constantly targetting him.  Yes he does bring the worst in me, yes he does annoy me terribly, but even with that set aside I've always tried to be as fair as I could within the vpsBoard Guidelines.  

 

Anyways, with a continued reports on his posts and people talking to us about his removal, we began discussing this option much more in-depth as the staff.  Under the guidelines, I would say his actual ban was over breaking "Do not spam" and him disregarding the requests of moderators and admins (in addition to being respectful to others input... which I would say if he asked for it and he got it, then at least provide reasons as to why he didn't follow ANY of it... and then you know... maybe stop asking).  

 

Again, with the increased reports and posts such as "Are the mods protecting mtwiscool" and "What the hell are you guys even doing letting this guy stay?", I requested a "suspension of normal procedures" (parliamentary procedure (Robert's Rule of Order) anyone?) to address the situation with Matthew. 

 

The topic continued to be discussed and in the end we came to an unanimous decision to remove him.  

 

I will do what I can in my capacity to understand and address everyone's concerns.  This decision was not done lightly, and I hope my explaination of the situation helps point a picture from our perspective.  It's not a clean fix, but our understanding and prediction was that even if he was removed from posting any offers, he would someone try and find a way to incorporate everything into his direction.  Reader protection was in mind (people were assuming we're safe-harboring him) and community concerns were in mind.  This was not executed in a malicious intent.  

 

Again, please contact me if you have any concerns.  

 

*Summary*

 

All in all, I'd like to bring this back up.


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## Wintereise (Sep 4, 2014)

+1, couldn't be happier.

Less bullshit is good, stop crying.


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## lbft (Sep 4, 2014)

drmike said:


> Where are these civility rules?


You get introduced to them when you start preschool, so it's not surprising you haven't come across them yet.


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.


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## drmike (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the background @HalfEatenPie.

The IRC ban wasn't about this lad, rather it was banning a whole popular low-cost network today - Quadranet.  Sorry for the confusion there Pie.

His ban today (mtwiscool) for spamming... essentially.... Did I miss something other than this one thread he posted on today?



_"I would say his actual ban was over breaking "Do not spam" and him disregarding the requests of moderators and admins (in addition to being respectful to others input... which I would say if he asked for it and he got it, then at least provide reasons as to why he didn't follow ANY of it). "_

Was there something else *today* this lad did?  I've found him to be rather quiet lately.  Perhaps I am not paying attention to vpsB so much lately.

If there existed then some basis for disallowing offers from him I am unclear of why and all.  Martin even said as much prior to the ban, thus my perplexed WTF.  I haven't seen masses of customer complaints, summerhost tendencies or other outright ripping folks off, yet from @mtwiscool.  So, besides being unpopular, I am failing here to see where he tripped and fell today. [prior to, yeah some tough days with his posts and others pummeling him]

If mtwiscool goes wall papering IRC with promos non stop, sure fine to put him on a timeout there.  I understand that too.

_*"I also agree that we should be protecting new members and that we need to keep a high standard for the community, however, and you knew it was coming, if we take that stance then a LOT of the content of the forum needs to be removed and quite a few offers/members need to be removed too."*_

Does this mean (posted by Martin when he shuttered thread and banned the lad) that we can look forward to more bans of folks and more content removed from vpsBoard?


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## Munzy (Sep 4, 2014)

KuJoe said:


> I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.


Please don't insult all of us with pitch forks, I just explained a point of view.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 4, 2014)

KuJoe said:


> I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.


Ehh...  I expected something like this really.  It's part of the job I guess.  It's why I'm trying to be as transparent as possible and as helpful as possible.  

I will admit certain people do get to me at times, and I do try actively to stop my own biases from getting to me, but I do at times have my moments.  That's when usually someone gives me a good kick in the head (@serverian once got me on the right track haha).


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

Munzy said:


> Please don't insult all of us with pitch forks, I just explained a point of view.


I was merely pointing out that posting a thread questioning the moderators without all of the facts looks poorly on how some people feel about the staff here. My post had nothing to do with you so I apologize if it came across that way.


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## MannDude (Sep 4, 2014)

I understand that we can't please everyone, and I don't expect that everyone is entirely thrilled with this decision or _any_ decision, for that matter. Just be happy that we can actually have (and do not discourage) this discussion.


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

Personally, I think if somebody completely new to the forum saw this thread they would close their tab and never look back.


A simple decision to ban a person who's only contribution to the forum is cross-posting his Facebook status updates, turned into a 2 page public thread questioning the competency of the staff here and effectively calling them Nazis for not posting an announcement documenting how the ban was determined.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 4, 2014)

drmike said:


> Thanks for the background @HalfEatenPie.
> 
> The IRC ban wasn't about this lad, rather it was banning a whole popular low-cost network today - Quadranet.  Sorry for the confusion there Pie.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah.  I believe the IRC Ban was a script mistake.  I believe it was because mtwiscool was using proxies to constantly try and get into the channel.  Once the right admin comes back online it'll be fixed I'm sure   (that's the current detail I have anyways).  It's a simple mistake.

As for his ban, this was a discussion over several days if not weeks, the decision wasn't made in a single day.  So his most recent actions were factored into but in the end his previous actions overwhelmed our decisions.  

I've linked the Suspension of Normal Procedures (labeled Suspension of the Rules on Wikipedia) on my original post because I remembered not everyone's familiar with Parliamentary Procedure.  It's basically the suspension of the rules temporarily for a single ruling when agreed upon by quorum and requires a 2/3 majority in order to proceed.  While it wasn't formally required I believed it was called for due to how infrequent we actually ban people (except for spam bots and obvious spammers of course).  

So basically, if you need hard quoting.  "Do not spam." "Please be respectful and courteous of others input and opinions."  "Please respect the decision of moderators and admins."  under the vpsBoard Guidelines.  With multiple requests from the Moderators (which were, in our opinion and perspective, ignored)



drmike said:


> Does this mean (posted by Martin when he shuttered thread and banned the lad) that we can look forward to more bans of folks and more content removed from vpsBoard?


What Martin was saying is exactly what you're addressing.  Martin was the individual who brought up the statement "Well if we ban him for this, what stops us from banning others?  To what extent?" during our internal discussions.  Therefore I requested the suspension of normal procedures which required a majority agreement.  With the majority agreement to suspend the rules temporarily, we agreed to remove Matthew from the community.  I personally follow the Parliamentary Procedure and the regulations to heart, and I believe it's a very important method to solving problems and addressing concerns.  While our own discussions weren't strictly following the guidelines set by Robert's Rule of Order (because after all, it was only three people), I did believe this situation called for Suspension of Normal Procedures.  

Basically what I'm saying is, for actual major cases like this where it's an individual we all know, we took proper precautions loosely following Robert's Rule of Order (and by loosely I mean I requested the suspension of Normal Procedures).  I would personally trust MannDude and Martin with my life, and I personally believe their heads are on right.  Now as for myself, well...  I hope I have my own head on right too!


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## drmike (Sep 4, 2014)

KuJoe said:


> I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.


What I saw was something that made no sense as posted in my last comment.  @mtwiscool was legit to post (absent some forthcoming example of where the kid went off the rails today somehow else), but now is not being allowed to post / participate.  That just conflicts with itself.

Plus therein I saw the bad omen, a line crossed where moderation was doing a 180 degree turn, with more unclear action resulting in bans and pulled content forthcoming.

Faith is complicated word.  Forming a mob?  Hardly.  Rather noting the strange turn of face  and change of course with the site.

I don't think disagreement is some form of treason or vileness.   Such is necessary to have functioning communities.  Honestly, I brought this up because it's murky at best and others have sent me comments, pointed to the ban, IRC, etc... -- folks who mostly lurk and don't participate...

Typically I defend this site and all, but I am not a moderator and it did / does seem uncharcteristically off behavior for vpsB.

Big picture, what is the hazard of having someone like mtwiscool here?  He's annoying at times, check.  He needs to be taught to properly market and edit his docs, check.  Same could be said of most folks here.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 4, 2014)

KuJoe said:


> Personally, I think if somebody completely new to the forum saw this thread they would close their tab and never look back.
> 
> 
> A simple decision to ban a person who's only contribution to the forum is cross-posting his Facebook status updates, turned into a 2 page public thread questioning the competency of the staff here and effectively calling them Nazis for not posting an announcement documenting how the ban was determined.


It's part of community trust, and I guess LEB/LET really crippled that badly.  Hopefully they can read into it all and get a decent understanding, but I agree.


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## KuJoe (Sep 4, 2014)

I guess I'm just old school. Oh well.


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## MannDude (Sep 5, 2014)

KuJoe said:


> I was merely pointing out that posting a thread questioning the moderators without all of the facts looks poorly on how some people feel about the staff here. My post had nothing to do with you so I apologize if it came across that way.


Comically, if we did anything to this thread those who lurk but never contribute to the forum would have a hay-day complaining about censorship. 

I'd say the biggest turn off to new visitors would be seeing the quality of _some_ past posts made... I'm happy to report that although vpsBoard is considerably slower and not nearly as active as LET or WHT, that overall, we generally have a much _higher quality_ (active) member base.


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Comically, if we did anything to this thread those who lurk but never contribute to the forum would have a hay-day complaining about censorship.
> 
> I'd say the biggest turn off to new visitors would be seeing the quality of _some_ past posts made... I'm happy to report that although vpsBoard is considerably slower and not nearly as active as LET or WHT, that overall, we generally have a much _higher quality_ (active) member base.


You know I gave you and the moderators hell on this because of the LE* history mainly and the games that continue to get played over there.  Little things like this are babysteps towards more swift and ugly actions. A number of us have found ourself on the wrong side of the ban hammer for being unpopular or poking the beast in the eyes.

Powers once realized are hard not just to abuse at will and random [like handing out bans or rummaging data].  I don't want to see this community head that way. 

I am a fan of this stuff being worked out in public always, and not by some mob rule.  Too easy to just bulldoze folks, rightly or wrongly.  This is a community afterall.

I'd ask the moderators issuing the ban to put some time to it and establish a ban level so we aren't on one strike terror with folks.  Everyone deserves a second chance... Much beyond three and too damn bad though 

That's all for me tonight, I am off to bed.  Tomorrow I turn three and start pre-school, you smarmy fuck @lbft.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 5, 2014)

drmike said:


> I'd ask the moderators issuing the ban to put some time to it and establish a ban level so we aren't on one strike terror with folks.


To be perfectly honest, I gave Matthew warnings over this.  In addition, being a reasonable human being, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't ban someone out of the blue without giving them a prior warning as to what they're doing wrong.  Handing out unwarranted bans is just counter-productive to what we're trying to maintain... which is a community.  

This of course excludes spam bots.  Because screw spam bots.


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## Kayaba Akihiko (Sep 5, 2014)

I don't really know why people are bitching about him getting banned, it's not like anyone actually wants him to continue to ruin the forum's reputation.

HEF Could just have chalked it off to "I have decided to not be as tolerant as I used to be in the past" Or just say that it was a decision that took him awhile to make.

I'm also surprised that Mann and Martin actually allowed this thread, I was expecting a middle finger to the face and/or just a "If you don't like it, leave."


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## MannDude (Sep 5, 2014)

Kayaba Akihiko said:


> I'm also surprised that Mann and Martin actually allowed this thread, I was expecting a middle finger to the face and/or just a "If you don't like it, leave."


This thread doesn't bother me, and it's only 8:12AM in Martin's locale so he may not be awake yet.


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## MartinD (Sep 5, 2014)

It may surprise some people to hear that I was the one not keen on a ban.


It's also, yet again, disheartening to see we have to explain actions, to justify them. There is no reign of terror here.


As for the IRC ban, that was my retarded move. Once again my script let me down and the issued ban was...moronic.


Interesting that we're accused of being influenced by the mob or that Manndude is a pushover and yet here we are, defending actions, based on some people getting their panties in a twist.


One rule for some, another for the rest. Pretty sure I brought that up earlier, too. Ironic.


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## wlanboy (Sep 5, 2014)

I wrote quite a little bit of text but deleted it because I would have add water to the mills of ban-o-matic.

We should ban people because they did really bad things to the community.

Offering not that .....good services should not be worth the hassle.

How should new memebers find out about bad offers?

Well comments and reviews.

If they then buy shit .. well, at least then they learnd that thing about not buying out of the price alone.

If we really would ban people right out of not so good service - hey I would ban about 50 people.

That alone (definition of good services) should show how dumb that move would be.

If someone posts the same offer again and again -> delete thread and warn him.

If someone posts shit offers -> comments and reviews will care about this.

So please calm down and let the crew do their job. It's their place and their rules - not yours.


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## DomainBop (Sep 5, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> This of course excludes spam bots.  Because screw spam bots.


I don't think this thread is an appropriate place for you to be wishing death upon the low end segment of the VPS market.  Did you ever stop to think that if those spambots suddenly disappeared demand for cheap VPS's would drop off a cliff and dozens of providers would deadpool and their owners would be forced to return to their former jobs as Kohl's stockboys?


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## Francisco (Sep 5, 2014)

But seriously. You all need to calm your tits a bit here.

I know a good chunk of us came from LE* where motives are, more often than not, questionable. I'm pretty happy

with how VPSB has handled many cases, even some long drawn out wind bag threads. To date they've done nothing

to burn our trust in over a year now so I think it's time to start giving them the benefit of the doubt.

If anything, Curtis & co have been pretty reasonable about things and have asked even the biggest windbags

to try to change their tone a bit and be solid contributors to the community. It usually doesn't work but

that's a fault of that individual, not of anything the mods have done.

As for the dude that got shit canned, he's iffy with a strong lean towards fraud. Did you guys ever see

his WHT threads? They drove even the most humble & good folk up the wall and out of the thread. I was

99.99% sure the dude was simply on there to troll people and was put up on a bet to do so.

---- Offtopic ----

@Munzy - I'll keep this short so things don't derail. @Aldryic has to be an ass because up until BuyVM was

started, I had a bad habit of giving way too much service away or was way too gullable and listened to every

sob story, even the hilarious ones that would be like "Hey I just bought an XBOX 360 so I can't pay this month",

etc. He's never been one to mix his words or to keep his opinion to himself when he sees real shitheads around

the communities he follows. He's (perma?)banned from LET for instructing GVH_Jon on the best way to slice open

his wrists to make sure there wasn't a chance he'd try to use the same bullshit lie to get out of the frying pans.

Support was hit & miss at the start of the year and near offensive at times early last year. We've had to do some

fairly big overhauls to our staffing and training to get get things to where they are now. Things are going well

enough at this point that we're pretty confident we'll be rolling full management in a couple weeks or so.

Francisco


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## Amitz (Sep 5, 2014)

Francisco said:


>





That Jesus?


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## toadyus (Sep 5, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> Under the guidelines, I would say his actual ban was over breaking "Do not spam"
> 
> *I* requested a "suspension of normal procedures" (parliamentary procedure (Robert's Rule of Order) anyone?) to address the situation with Matthew.
> 
> ...





MannDude said:


> I'm still slightly *on the fence* with it so as far as I am concerned it's on a trial basis





MartinD said:


> It may surprise some people to hear that I was the one *not keen on a ban*.


@HalfEatenPie

I don't see how you can say "*we **came to an unanimous decision to remove him*" when one mod is "*on the fence*" and the other was "*not keen on a ban*". From the details taken from the posts above it looks like it was a 1/3 vote to me and unless I'm seeing things different Matthews last offer was on August 13 and his new one was on September 3rd so unless you've deleted his others offers I don't see how he was "Spamming"!

I'm in no way defending his actions, he was kid until what a couple weeks ago but come the fuck on, Is this how we treat all new people on the forum? Anyone that comes here needs to be of superior nature in the low end vps market..*lol* or they're treated as unequal?

If I was a lurker and saw this type of action you think I'm going to submit anything or help out with this forum with the way you treat new members competition? This truly sickens me to see someone treated like this, it was a constant bash fest from the beginning to the end.

Wow just wow........


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## TheLinuxBug (Sep 5, 2014)

@toadyus You obviously haven't been paying attention to the kids posts.  For the most part his original posts here made no sense and were basically him posting what he thought were land marks in whatever project he was working on at the time.  Seriously, garbage.  Many of us would go in the threads and try to decode them and give feed back.  Each time we did so the kid would ignore us and continue to do the same drivel.  

This also repeated its self in his offer threads and had to be told to stop making continuous updates like "I tied my shoes today", "I updated the server today", etc. (I am just fabricating examples, but the reality is it was a bunch of useless posts to keep his thread from sinking).  He was warned about doing this a few different times throughout his stay and each time ignored the moderators and continued to do the same (I know because, honestly, I was probably one of the people flagging them).

If I actually thought the kid had something to contribute here I would be all for unbanning him.  However, if the past dictates anything about the future we would just have more useless drivel posts about:

1. what he ate for lunch

2. what new package he installed on a server (and he's proud of him self)

3. complaining that he had his server terminated and refunded in poor grammar most likely because these same tactics he uses here he has probably tried with providers who have also decided they won't put up with his crap.

4. Other non-productive/unhelpful input/complaints in poor grammar

Hey, I am all for a second chance, but in that same breathe if he is given another chance here he better take it seriously and stop these immature antics.  I am all for being supportive of people who have learning challenges or need extra help understanding things, but there is also a line where if the person doesn't want to listen and consider the answers given as well as follow the forum rules that it becomes pointless to continue to beat your head against the wall trying to help them.

If you truly think he is innocent or the victim in all of this though, you really should put down the pipe your smoking and come back at this with a clear mind, because he is not innocent or a victim of anything but his own decisions.

my 2 cents.

Cheers!


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## 24/7/365 (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm pretty new here. I don't often post much in drama threads because I prefer to avoid them.

A lot of these over at the LE* end up as childish bickering and end up making the entire industry looking childish.

One of the main reasons I joined here was because the tone was friendlier and everyone seemed to be helpful.

I really hope we don't descend into cliquey, protectionist, ego stroking anarchy. For that there's a wide variety of forums/IRC channels to join but as I say, I'm new here so what do I know?


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## mojeda (Sep 5, 2014)

toadyus said:


> @HalfEatenPie
> 
> I don't see how you can say "*we **came to an unanimous decision to remove him*" when one mod is "*on the fence*" and the other was "*not keen on a ban*". From the details taken from the posts above it looks like it was a 1/3 vote to me and unless I'm seeing things different Matthews last offer was on August 13 and his new one was on September 3rd so unless you've deleted his others offers I don't see how he was "Spamming"!
> 
> ...


If you're talking about mtw, he was by no means new to this community. He has been here for quite a while and many people attempted to assist him in his adventure and he kinda brushed it all off.


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2014)

_*In Re Fran's comments:*_

I'll let this thread continue and continue with my work day.   But, I wanted to note that we should and must do better than those other sites.   Just because someone is ban prone elsewhere shouldn't mean their path here is more of that. Other sites as we know are rather random on bans, fail to document why people just disappear, etc.  They are far from being TRANSPARENT, and that's something I hope continues here - TRANSPARENCY (even if I don't like the outcomes I can respect the decisions under such).

_*"He's (perma?)banned from LET for instructing GVH_Jon on the best way to slice open
his wrists to make sure there wasn't a chance he'd try to use the same bullshit lie to get out of the frying pans."*_

I am indifferent about the suicide topic.  I believe in individual rights and free will, even when such conduct goes against the morale "majority" in a community or larger society.  Letting the amateurs and first timers go about self inflicted injury all wrong is cruel.   Failure isn't usually some come to the light experience either. Afterall, who am I to judge the pain of another and dictate they must continue.  One mans minor ache is another mans basis for lunacy.  Yet I still feel horrible when these events occur.

Grounds though to ban someone?  Maybe temporarily for not being the sort of conduct the ownership wants in such community.  But bigger picture almost always to shed any perceived liability by law later.  "We do not condone... we banned such person". Banning him temporarily for legal protectionism reasons, sure I buy that.

We ought to look at GVH_Jonny and how long he has been banned and consider letting him return.  I believe in second chances, I know most folks here feel the same.  The lingering as-is one-strike policy is troubling (absent such a person stealing, victimizing customers, engaging in conduct that is clearly illegal in society).

Now we must remember, at face value, mtwiscool is if anything disabled.   In my world, I'd consider him a functioning autistic.  He's prone to doing things that run afoul of norms.  He's prone to momentum outbursts or blips of naughty behavior.  His conduct has improved in passing months, regardless of who or what is influencing it.

I don't want to sound like a sissy wanker and the PC bullshit where some groups are given "special" rights.  At the same time I don't want some of us looking like bullies (another beat up social topic).

Moderation is an art form and a role I have zero interest in.  Very very hard to cram all the info one needs to know and not jump to rash conclusions, or waste all night researching the issue or issue severe penalties (because it's easy to bow to 4-5 complaints here and there).  So I am empathetic to extra attention and normal work of moderators.   Sorry if I came across as simply not caring initially.  I do and folks should know that.  These topic always are troubling to me.  To be impartial, fair, to represent the smallest member of the community at times like this or the biggest one pinched by some outlash...


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## DomainBop (Sep 5, 2014)

> We ought to look at GVH_Jonny and how long he has been banned and consider letting him return.  I believe in second chances, I know most folks here feel the same.


The diminutive Fabozo in training has been given about 20 chances over the past 2 years on various forums and has blown all of them.  Based on the thread on LET today nothing's changed (forcing people to upgrade to a "24/7 managed plan" that doesn't provide any real management and isn't really 24/7...not to mention that I doubt the incompetent staff over there is qualified to provide managed service to anyone...you pay your contractors peanuts you get monkeydung)


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## AndrewM (Sep 5, 2014)

Francisco said:


>


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## Francisco (Sep 5, 2014)

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

OK that gets an upvote.

Francisco


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## Kayaba Akihiko (Sep 5, 2014)

Francisco said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAOK that gets an upvote.Francisco


Sorry for going off topic, but do you have the link where Aldryic instructed Jon on how to slit his wrist?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 5, 2014)




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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 6, 2014)

toadyus said:


> @HalfEatenPie
> 
> 
> I don't see how you can say "*we **came to an unanimous decision to remove him*" when one mod is "*on the fence*" and the other was "*not keen on a ban*". From the details taken from the posts above it looks like it was a 1/3 vote to me and unless I'm seeing things different Matthews last offer was on August 13 and his new one was on September 3rd so unless you've deleted his others offers I don't see how he was "Spamming"!
> ...


I dont know what you want me to say. There was a poll in the admin area. I was the second person to vote in favor. The last person also voted in favor. 

If 3/3 voted in favor, then I'm pretty sure thats unanimous.


Edit: several of his threads were merged and removed. So yes you on the public side would not bear the burdens of this issue.


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## fixidixi (Sep 6, 2014)

Drama-drama-drama . Please gimme more of this! [nope]


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## k0nsl (Sep 6, 2014)

"First they came for"-meme?






> First they came for @mtwiscool, and I did not speak out—
> 
> Because I was not brain-dead or stupid.



*Note:*

@drmike: I'm not suggesting you're brain-dead or stupid (we know that ain't so). So please don't think it was directed towards you, it certainly was not. I was just trying to do a Niemöller-meme; although I failed, because I was too lazy to even do the corresponding lines for the other_ "and then they came for"_-blah-this-that-or-the-other parts.

Whether the decision to expunge @mtwiscool from vpsBoard was right or wrong I'll leave for the administration of vpsBoard to decide upon, but as you guys say: it's healthy to be able to discuss it, and in this case *try* to make a little "fun slip in". But I can say this, my blood pressure has been stabilised ever since his "vpsBoard-blog" was put out for cancellation. The doctor told me I can stop taking the "chill pills" for the moment: the levels are great  :lol:


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## RLT (Sep 7, 2014)

I must say I always considered him to be a troll. Actually I wondered if one of the LET uppity ups hadn't of put him up to it.


The ban saves me the trouble of putting him on the ignore list. Actually it saves me the trouble of figuring out how to do it. Lol


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## mikeyur (Sep 7, 2014)

Francisco said:


> He's (perma?)banned from LET for instructing GVH_Jon on the best way to slice open his wrists to make sure there wasn't a chance he'd try to use the same bullshit lie to get out of the frying pans.


Oh man.. I forgot how great that was. The problem with Jon is that he never takes the great advice people give him.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 7, 2014)

mikeyur said:


> Oh man.. I forgot how great that was. The problem with Jon is that he never takes the great advice people give him.


And then complains when it blows back on him.  Kids these days.


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## Munzy (Sep 7, 2014)

Francisco said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> OK that gets an upvote.
> ...



We have a ton of love for you francisco :: https://www.enjen.net/amazingcat/

Made that along time ago, found it while cleaning.


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## DomainBop (Sep 7, 2014)

> Kids these days.


In Jon's case (and a few other problematic child hosts), _crappy parenting these days_ (exhibit A: the publicly posted suicide threat and police showing up at the door.  If it had been my kid he would have been spending a couple of weeks in the psychiatric ward getting much needed mental help and wouldn't have been posting on the Internet 2 hours later as if nothing had happened)


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## Francisco (Sep 7, 2014)

DomainBop said:


> In Jon's case (and a few other problematic child hosts), _crappy parenting these days_ (exhibit A: the publicly posted suicide threat and police showing up at the door.  If it had been my kid he would have been spending a couple of weeks in the psychiatric ward getting much needed mental help and wouldn't have been posting on the Internet 2 hours later as if nothing had happened)


Yeah I gotta agree. It's an ongoing joke that most foreign comedians run with that parents don't beat their kids enough. I always get a kick out of it but when I saw crap like that I was in full agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpKKQrhqkw

Francisco


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## drmike (Sep 7, 2014)

It hasn't been addressed, so I'll bring it back up....

With these bans, how long are the folks banned to be banned?

Is this a one time and entirely gone routine?   Or are they on some X day ban?


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## Munzy (Sep 7, 2014)

I call discrimination, I am white and I was beaten!

Usually it was for nothing....


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## MartinD (Sep 7, 2014)

drmike said:


> It hasn't been addressed, so I'll bring it back up....
> 
> 
> With these bans, how long are the folks banned to be banned?
> ...


I addressed it as did many others.


We took action that was deemed necessary. I don't see complaints about other users that have been banned.


The bans are permanent.


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## drmike (Sep 7, 2014)

MartinD said:


> I addressed it as did many others.
> 
> 
> We took action that was deemed necessary. I don't see complaints about other users that have been banned.
> ...


I appear to have missed where the nature of the ban, being a perma ban was said clearly - until now.

As for complaints about other users that have been banned,  unsure outside of spammers who has been banned and where their behavior was exhibited and such response was said to be a perma ban.  Perhaps those bans weren't so clear or I wasn't tuned into vpsB that day and when catching up there were pages of new Topics and posts.

Hey house rules are whatever they are.  Good to know so people aren't stuck in the dark wondering or feeling mislead or fearful.

I'd like to request a thread closure on this in 6 hours, absent any other input from the community.


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## MartinD (Sep 7, 2014)

Well, the only reason people feel mislead or fearful is due to threads like this. Other individuals contacted admin, in private, to see what happened. Seeing threads like this makes it look as though bans are randomly handed out, that any view not aligned with admin/mods will see you thrown out. That has never and will never be the case. I'm sure I speak for both other team members when I say that, too.


I would request that any further questions of a similar nature are addressed in private first. If you then feel the replies/answers were unsatisfactory then by all means go public however, doing so before any contact has been made and with such an inappropriate title* does nothing but scare newbies off and create drama where there was none. Respect works both ways - if you want those in power to respect you then extend the same courtesy to them.


* - anyone searching for his company may find this thread and in turn, some of his other posts. Contrary to your belief that he can be coached in to doing good, the resulting search mentioned above would only be to the detriment of him and his brands. Counterproductive and the opposite of your intention.


I'll lock this thread now. I believe it has served it's purpose. As ALWAYS, everyone is free to contact the three of us to discuss issues. We're also always on IRC.


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