# Ban Request *Thoughts*



## Mun (Jul 8, 2014)

Their is a few individuals on this forum whom are by far too young and inexperienced to be running a host. It is of my opinion that these individuals should be banned for the safety of this community, and the guests of this community. By allowing these individuals a method of interaction, we are garnering greater and greater risk for damage to happen. This could be in the form of leaked data, spying, and the possibility of many other damages. These individuals come and post on this and other like forums asking basic questions to fix their own problems, thus showing they have a lack of experience and ability to problem solve their issues. What happens in the event of an emergency?

Banning these individuals would first and foremost remove their avenue of access to clients via a centralized location. Second, this would protect the readers of this forum from being taken advantage of by these individuals.

The point of this post is to request the admins to reconsider the individuals of this forum that come to mind via the above, and ban them if no reasonable improvement is seen.

Mun


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## drmike (Jul 8, 2014)

I am mega blah about bans... Cause long ago, most of us were probably ban worthy for lack of knowledge.... Live and learn.

I frequently whine about the underagers who aren't legal to be running such a business anywhere. But I stop short of banning or anything too heavy.

On the other hand, we have moderators and random acts to police, edit, revise posts from time to time.... So it's not  just a conduit here..  With such actions comes inferred liability.  An endorsement of who and what within, especially for those engaging in selling products.

I recall a WHT thread just yesterday about a like-named VPS company who had failed to deliver someones VPS (maybe multiple people deprived post payment).  In that the OP said 'I found the company on LEB and assumed the company to be legitimate'.   Which in practice sounds right and should be true basis for some trust (it use to mean something).

However, as we all know, policing of bad actors, the socially irresponsible and sociopaths doesn't happen, outside of censorship bans (which vpsB RARELY has done).

Big picture, vpsB has had some failed companies in our hallways and some questionable mergers and acquisitions of VPS offering companies.  I don't think we've had anyone say they didn't receive their product.   Nor do I think we have promoted any company with mass know-how deficiency that led to hack, compromise, disclosure of customer info, etc.

I know I have a dual sided axe I grind gently against one provider here ran by a minor...who is technically inept himself.  and who hires, and continues to have volunteers and other random arrangements with proven bad actors, those who have deadpooled multiple times, beat customers out of cash, linger HF, and have propensity towards prying in containers and customer data.  That provider is banned, but for multiple deceptions and fabrications I believe officially (not my site or doing the bans here).

And finally, that provider and who is within, even some of the best known companies in the cheap segment hire/employ/etc. similar characters with the same defects.... so....


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## DomainBop (Jul 8, 2014)

> Their is a few individuals on this forum whom are by far too young and inexperienced to be running a host. It is of my oppinion that these individuals should be banned for the saftey of this community, and the guests of this community.


I think the average member of this community (or at least the active ones) has enough experience that they don't need to be protected from hosts who have trouble tying their shoelaces.  On the other hand, the inexperienced "ooh big RAM! Can't pass up this deal" crowd who snap up some of the offers on LET could benefit from hosts who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground being banned from posting offers (and they could benefit from LEB's admin not actively promoting providers who have a history of downtime, database breaches, hidden WHOIS, refund policies that are borderline scams, etc)

tl;dr I'm in favor of preventing inexperienced hosts and douchebags from posting offers but I'm not in favor of banning inexperienced hosts and douchebags from participating in the forum.


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## mojeda (Jul 8, 2014)

I say we implement ban system system much like in the Survivor, and vote people off the island forum.

---

People who are not experienced should not be allowed to advertise their services here. I like to think we are not a home for skiddie, incompetent and/or summer hosts but home for people who take this business seriously and know what they are doing.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 8, 2014)

Or, instead of banning, see if there's simply a script to 'downvote' a thread.  Someone posts a topic that's 100% self-serving with the purpose of using community knowledge to line their pockets when they're too inept to do it themselves?  Let the community flag the hell out of it - thread gets enough flags/downvotes, the forum auto-hides it.


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## drmike (Jul 8, 2014)

Waa there go all my posts, down voted


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## MannDude (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm open to the idea of doing an audit of the Verified Providers based on reasonable and updated criteria. Right now it's either businesses who have shown proof of being an -actual- business (or at least having had filed paperwork) or they've been in business for a year or longer. May change it so only those who can provide proof of actually operating a registered, legal entity are in that group.

Non-verified providers offers aren't indexed by Google and aren't viewable to guests anyhow. They're only viewable to logged in members and I am not even for sure if they show up in sidebar as new content or not. They don't deserve to be banned, but as things currently are they're not exactly getting a ton of coverage either. This is both good and bad depending on who you are.

I don't know, I'm open to suggestions. This industry is essentially the wild west of the digital frontier, and while playing Sheriff is required sometimes, sometimes it's also best to just proceed with caution. Not all the non-Verified providers are bad, I'm sure most are actually quite good. The system we already have in place isn't perfect, but it'll never be 'perfect' in the eyes of everyone.

Like I said, open to suggestions though. 

EDIT: Also, discouraging providers and people interested in becoming a provider from posting on vpsBoard isn't really good for our growth as a community.


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## DomainBop (Jul 8, 2014)

> I'm open to the idea of doing an audit of the Verified Providers based on reasonable and updated criteria.


If their business performance/practices turn to absolute shit I'd vote for limiting their ability to post offers with a duration of greater than 1-month until they get their act together.

textbook example of what I'm talking about (read the comments)


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## drmike (Jul 8, 2014)

DomainBop said:


> If their business performance/practices turn to absolute shit I'd vote for limiting their ability to post offers with a duration of greater than 1-month until they get their act together.
> 
> textbook example of what I'm talking about (read the comments)


Poor 123Systems.. I remember when the former owner Andrew  was seen on vpsB... Unsure if he ever bothered to become a verified provider - most of us read him the riot act....

But what you are seeing there, is what happens when a failed company (123Systems) gets swallowed by CVPS/CC and the former owner goes goodbye.  Left to Team Indian for support and no one generally cares...   Unsure why CVPS/CC implodes companies like this...


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## AuroraZero (Jul 8, 2014)

drmike said:


> Poor 123Systems.. I remember when the former owner Andrew  was seen on vpsB... Unsure if he ever bothered to become a verified provider - most of us read him the riot act....
> 
> But what you are seeing there, is what happens when a failed company (123Systems) gets swallowed by CVPS/CC and the former owner goes goodbye.  Left to Team Indian for support and no one generally cares...   Unsure why CVPS/CC implodes companies like this...


This happens because the swallowing entity does not give a shit. They just want the money coming in from  the clients. They talk a big game but when the chips are down they fold like the house of cards they have built themselves.


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## GIANT_CRAB (Jul 8, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Or, instead of banning, see if there's simply a script to 'downvote' a thread.  Someone posts a topic that's 100% self-serving with the purpose of using community knowledge to line their pockets when they're too inept to do it themselves?  Let the community flag the hell out of it - thread gets enough flags/downvotes, the forum auto-hides it.


le leddit upboat n downboat XDDDdddd


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## Schultz (Jul 8, 2014)

I like the idea.


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## drmike (Jul 8, 2014)

Boxode said:


> I like the idea.


Reminds me of the political support for say taxes originally... Punsih the misbehaving corporations... Whoa to us, the populace... Then in their short sightedness, years later, those enacted taxes shift in burden from the corporation to that population who sought to stomp someone..

As much as I think it's a grand idea, not thinking forward about the impacts and how you, yourself could be so easily ensnared, yes, quick to think, slow to react...

Lord have mercy upon me, for I have sinned


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## splitice (Jul 9, 2014)

I dont think moderators and administrators should be taking drastic actions (banning) in these cases, however I do agree that some action should be taken. However it needs to be appropriate in nature, we don't need the VPSBoard secret police XD . Perhaps just closing the thread before it gets to this point?

A simple - well worded response explaining the flaws in their approach, a few recommendations for improvement. Furthermore encouraging them to continue their business, but to do so without the drama thread and to do so elsewhere.


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## Kayaba Akihiko (Jul 9, 2014)

Just wondering, is this in response to my "Budget VPS" Response to a review?


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## AuroraZero (Jul 9, 2014)

Okay guys going to give you a hypothetical here just for kicks. Let's say that I, just for example not that I am going to but maybe I am who knows yet, starts a business from where I am located but I have no business license yet. It is a shared hosting business to start and I start posting here. Now you guys know me some what and should know by now that I do not do things to intentionally screw people over.....EVER!

The main problem with me having a business license right now is the cash, I do not have enough to get one right now, but I plan to as the business grows. I also do not have a tax I.D. number but that is in the works as well as the business grows.

Should I be "punished" because I can not afford to do things the "right way" at the start? Even though my business plan has the room in it to make things right? Also at what point does one become "Admin" to the entire internet?

At some point people have to start taking responsibility for themselves as well and stop trying to make others do it for them. The Admins and Mods of this forum, or any other one for that matter, should not be responsible for making decisions for other people's money. They should control that themselves.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jul 9, 2014)

AuroraZero said:


> Okay guys going to give you a hypothetical here just for kicks. Let's say that I, just for example not that I am going to but maybe I am who knows yet, starts a business from where I am located but I have no business license yet. It is a shared hosting business to start and I start posting here. Now you guys know me some what and should know by now that I do not do things to intentionally screw people over.....EVER!
> 
> The main problem with me having a business license right now is the cash, I do not have enough to get one right now, but I plan to as the business grows. I also do not have a tax I.D. number but that is in the works as well as the business grows.
> 
> ...


To be perfectly honest, I'd feel a bit iffy if someone's starting a "company" with only 200 dollars.  

Business filing/registering in itself costs about 100 dollars (as a foreign LLC and depending on states).  If we include other forms and registration costs for everything then I'll end up being around 200 dollars (being very general here and generous in terms of costs).  

200 dollars isn't a small amount as an individual, but as a company it's one of the necessary costs involved in making money (in my opinion).  Businesses requires the owner to take risks in starting something.  Setting up a VPS with cPanel and then complaining that the 15 dollars a month for cPanel and 12 dollars a month for WHMCS is too much isn't a real business at all.  

The individual who might be starting it yes could be a great individual to run it, but having the funds to actually start it is a pre-requisite that's commonly overlooked (and therefore we have summer hosts and dead pools).  

I'm not saying we should ban these individuals for making a mistake, that's part of life.  But when it's obvious they repeatedly disregard attempts at fixing things then I believe it should be possible to bring it up for discussion on a case-by-case basis. 

Note the only reason I'd ban someone (or have banned anyone) is mostly due to malicious intent.  Also, most of us are reasonable individuals, it's always the minority who attempt to push the boundaries seeing what they can get away with.  It's incredibly annoying from the admin/staff end but it's part of what we have to do.  

Also, this turned into a rant but here goes.  We're not your parents.  Please don't come messaging us about someone else saying something or whatever.  Be adults and please resolve it by communicating with each other or just accepting each other's differences.  It's how the world works.


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## switsys (Jul 9, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> We're not your parents.  Please don't come messaging us about someone else saying something or whatever.  Be adults and please resolve it by communicating with each other or just accepting each other's differences.  It's how the world works.


Exactly, most people use their common sense.


And if they don't have any of that - tough sh**!


Also, it's rather easy to just ignore annoying posts, and posts by individuals who annoy you.


Anyway, @drmike, @DomainBop, @splitice and @Aldryic C'boas has already expressed thoughts similar to my own on this.


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## AuroraZero (Jul 9, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> To be perfectly honest, I'd feel a bit iffy if someone's starting a "company" with only 200 dollars.
> 
> Business filing/registering in itself costs about 100 dollars (as a foreign LLC and depending on states).  If we include other forms and registration costs for everything then I'll end up being around 200 dollars (being very general here and generous in terms of costs).
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying completely and I tend to agree with you, but what about when, now this is just an example, LEB runs a contest and the winner gets a free server for a year to start a business? Or if someone goes to a site like KickStarter and gets funds to start one? Why are these examples any different? <--(assuming they are)


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## drmike (Jul 9, 2014)

AuroraZero said:


> The main problem with me having a business license right now is the cash, I do not have enough to get one right now, but I plan to as the business grows. I also do not have a tax I.D. number but that is in the works as well as the business grows.
> 
> Should I be "punished" because I can not afford to do things the "right way" at the start? Even though my business plan has the room in it to make things right? Also at what point does one become "Admin" to the entire internet?
> 
> At some point people have to start taking responsibility for themselves as well and stop trying to make others do it for them. The Admins and Mods of this forum, or any other one for that matter, should not be responsible for making decisions for other people's money. They should control that themselves.


Well the new business lack of funds is totally understandable.  It's why verified providers and non verified exist.

Believe it or not some able to incorporate folks just do not... Maybe they are believers in the Biblical definition of liability vs. the Limited Liability in corporations.

This site like all others that are moderated, bears inferred liability/responsibility to screen companies, shut down bad actors, etc.  This is unlike LE* that thinks they are above the laws and allows creeps like 123Systems to post offers. There are others they shouldn't be allowing to run offers either based on the outcomes by customers on multiple offers.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jul 9, 2014)

AuroraZero said:


> I understand what you are saying completely and I tend to agree with you, but what about when, now this is just an example, LEB runs a contest and the winner gets a free server for a year to start a business? Or if someone goes to a site like KickStarter and gets funds to start one? Why are these examples any different? <--(assuming they are)


This changes nothing in my opinion.  Simply the fact that (in case of the LEB contest) the "business owner" has the cost of the server removed for the first six months.  This should mean more capital is available to allocate to other needs, such as lets say the business registration fund?  

If they receive funding from a Kickstarter well they better include the cost of Administration fees into the amount of money they need.  Doing a Kickstarter doesn't mean you're going with the bare minimum to provide the product at 0 net profit.  It's there (in my opinion) to provide the initial funding to get your project going following a plan you have devised for it.  

All those opportunities are there to help someone in their "quest" of being a business owner.  It doesn't negate the fact that business registration in itself (at a business sense) is a pretty cheap and almost negligible cost that's in the way of gaining (in a layman sense) legal profit.  

*Edit:* Just to be clear of course we're talking hypothetically here.  You're playing the Devils Advocate so it's just one course of thinking.


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## AuroraZero (Jul 9, 2014)

drmike said:


> Well the new business lack of funds is totally understandable.  It's why verified providers and non verified exist.
> 
> Believe it or not some able to incorporate folks just do not... Maybe they are believers in the Biblical definition of liability vs. the Limited Liability in corporations.
> 
> This site like all others that are moderated, bears inferred liability/responsibility to screen companies, shut down bad actors, etc.  This is unlike LE* that thinks they are above the laws and allows creeps like 123Systems to post offers. There are others they shouldn't be allowing to run offers either based on the outcomes by customers on multiple offers.


I understand that as well, but you can become a business without becoming Incorporated or even an LLC.

I agree something needs to be done about the rampant creeps and low lives we have in this industry. LE* has turned into something else over the years, and it is not something good in my eyes. For some reason they seem to have taken a stand back and watch things happen approach over there, and to an extent it gets them visitors and I guess it is what they want. The scope of the whole place has changed as does most things in life.

I am not sure what the right answer to this problem is, but on one hand you can come down hard and ban the ones that prove themselves to be untrustworthy, on the other hand you can let the community have their way with them. I am not sure which one is best for this forum, but I do know one thing for sure, I do not envy the Admins or mods their decision in this at all.


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