# Is HVH owned by Colocrossing?



## libro22 (Jun 4, 2013)

My credit card statement says so -- it showed Colocrossing in the transaction name, or I'm just missing something here?

HVH = Hudson Valley Host

----updated with photo (resized, too big)



HVH, if you can trace me back, please don't terminate my services.


----------



## SPINIKR-RO (Jun 4, 2013)

pics?


----------



## D. Strout (Jun 4, 2013)

Where have I heard a similar claim before..? Seriously, though, they do use CC's network, but I don't know about ownership. If you're correct about the credit card statement, I would assume they are owned by CC.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 4, 2013)

I've heard this before. Pretty sure they were asked about this before and denied it though I can not be 100% sure.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 4, 2013)




----------



## mikho (Jun 4, 2013)

MannDude said:


> ]


How long did you wait between your two last messages? Wish that online chat had timestamps.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 4, 2013)

mikho said:


> How long did you wait between your two last messages? Wish that online chat had timestamps.


A couple minutes.

Yeah, no TimeStamps...


----------



## mikho (Jun 4, 2013)

So, all we got right now is one who says they are owned by CC and the owner who says no.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 4, 2013)

mikho said:


> So, all we got right now is one who says they are owned by CC and the owner who says no.


There was another post here that mentions the HVH CC connection. Though no proof. http://vpsboard.com/index.php?/topic/97-greenvaluehost/

Hopefully the OP comes back and backs up his claim.


----------



## mikho (Jun 4, 2013)

MannDude said:


> There was another post here that mentions the HVH CC connection. Though no proof. http://vpsboard.com/index.php?/topic/97-greenvaluehost/
> 
> 
> Hopefully the OP comes back and backs up his claim.


Yeah, but that thread never gave anything away, nothing more then a grumpy old employee telling the world his feelings. And ofcourse that it all ended in some other direction


----------



## jarland (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't know the specifics but they're certainly connected in more ways than they'd like you to believe. I don't know what's in the water in Buffalo that makes people morally opposed to just being honest about things that really shouldn't matter. Reminds me of a friend I used to have. The guy would tell you up was down just to avoid being truthful.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Yeah, but that thread never gave anything away, nothing more then a grumpy old employee telling the world his feelings. And ofcourse that it all ended in some other direction


 Cute.

Who says I am an ex employee of CC  ?

I told folks that CC was/is ghost operating companies.   I know HVH was having "liquidity" issues and perhaps fell behind with CC on invoices.   If you go back on HVH posts, they  really suddenly changed up their offers, started selling dedicateds with no support from CC (which they never had before).  

My theory is that HVH is passing through sales to CC for the dedicated servers.  

Now, someone being invoiced on their credit card for a server bought from HVH showing Colocrossing on the statement?  Zero way for that to happen except for scenario I've long been proposing.  HVH = CC = ghost operating the company or segments of it.

@libro22 - can you scan/photograph your statement and blank out personal details?


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Yeah, but that thread never gave anything away


The info is there and the belief of what is going on is real, or I wouldn't bother.

Just like Uncle Drunky told folks for a year over on LET that CC was ghost operating LET/LEB.  Feel free to doubt all you want   You will see reality soon enough.


----------



## Francisco (Jun 5, 2013)

get a censored image up if possible.

Kris has a whole fustercluck of a story to go with this all I'm sure.

Francisco


----------



## KuJoe (Jun 5, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Cute.
> 
> Who says I am an ex employee of CC  ?


I believe he was talking about @Kris (ex-HVH employee), not you.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

I am a tad stumped why Ernie is doing support.   He's not a technical fellow and is employed gainfully in unrelated industry.

It might have something to do with the outsourced  support desk somewhere in India he's not using any more.

CC providing support desk for him now too  ?  Hey, don't laugh... 'someone hacked our Solus and our unrelated separate entity upstream provider had to come in and rescue us..'.  Oh wait, that really happened, with another company that claims it isn't CC owned/CC equity in.


----------



## mikho (Jun 5, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I believe he was talking about @Kris (ex-HVH employee), not you.


This!


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Yeah, but that thread never gave anything away, nothing more then a grumpy old employee telling the world his feelings. And ofcourse that it all ended in some other direction


I'll let that slide,meatball   (being Norwegian, naturally don't like you, that didn't help)

I told nothing but the truth. Jon was lying and I simply cleared things up, when it came to HVH owning their hardware. When he implied I did anything less than take Ernie from a small LET kiddie host who couldn't manage his servers -> #1 for search terms on Google / expanding rapidly - I took some issue. If anything, I downplayed what I did for that company in terms of helping him grow and choose a proper infrastructure.

Btw Mikho, I remember that thread ending with me calling Ernie telling Jon to keep his mouth shut if he didn't want me to spill any beans, knowing the implosion that was going on there. Jon quickly stepped back in line and edited his post.

After the hurricane hit NYC and hit Atlantic Metro hard, Jon from CC lured him into a 24 month RTO for 8+ servers. I told him it wasn't too smart as the servers would be antiquated by 24 months and really wouldn't help him, but he moved all NYC servers to Buffalo. I was only helping with SEO at the time, not actually being paid.

All drama aside, I left HVH around 2 months ago because Ernie couldn't compete anywhere near US wages, and I was putting in 8-12+ hours per day for him. Saving numerous VPS servers after crashes, or numerous data center moves. I was tired of fighting with a bunch of kids above a daycare to get data center issues fixed (dust in the switch comes to mind)

Ernie's actually a good guy, but the place was beyond a mess.

I heard from another outsourced employee that Ernie dropped him too, so now it's 100% outsourced team with Ernie as the front-man.

Do the math : Budget servers on par / Same prices as most resellers get them from CC, HVH went from 100% Managed VPS focus -> pushing low cost dedicated servers.

Ernie used to manage the website through Dreamweaver and FTP, now there's some CMS in place, and things look quite different over there.

At least they still have the secured cPanel ISO image deployed with VPS servers I developed


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Kris has a whole fustercluck of a story to go with this all I'm sure.


A novel's worth. I've moved on, and never figured Ernie would actually be able to pay me how he promised month after month of SEO.

Even told him before, in the worse case - the keyword rankings I got for him would make him a good case study.

Push came to shove, and HVH was a great case-study in my case of taking a relative nobody boosting them to #1-3 across Google for multiple phrases and keywords.

Unfortunately in Ernie's case was a case-study in not signing contracts without a hardware SLA let alone a shady data-center with ghost-employees and the true network admins behind the scenes (Gary 1 and Gary 2, I'm looking at you )

When I found out the contracts had no hardware SLA after long sporadic outages +  replies from CC like 'these are essentially owned machines, you purchased them" on the RTO's - I knew I couldn't deal with that data center anymore.

*And that's all I have to say about that. *


----------



## libro22 (Jun 5, 2013)

It seems no one clearly knows, I have updated my post above. Please check.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

Kris said:


> a case-study in not signing contracts without a hardware SLA l
> 
> When I found out the contracts had no hardware SLA after long sporadic outages +  replies from CC like 'these are essentially owned machines, you purchased them" on the RTO's - I knew I couldn't deal with that data center anymore.


So CC isn't/wasn't supporting the hardware on the RTO?  That's insanity on their end.  It's a rental.  After 24 payments, well on your own.  Before then?  Yeah surprised someone has sued/contested invoices/etc. over hardware failures and long downtime.

Any host who doesn't lock down the SLAs and guarantees up front is aiming to fail. Cheap prices shouldn't override common sense.

Can't wait to the OP's statement to solidify everything.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

libro22 said:


> It seems no one clearly knows, I have updated my post above. Please check.


$25 invoice amount..... right?

What was that for from HVH?  Can you link the purchased item and edit that into the original post?


----------



## libro22 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's a managed VPS with discount coupon plus a freebie.


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> So CC isn't/wasn't supporting the hardware on the RTO? That's insanity on their end. It's a rental. After 24 payments, well on your own. Before then? Yeah surprised someone has sued/contested invoices/etc. over hardware failures and long downtime.


On a machine with kernel panics we were offered 9-5 PM memtests. Nothing 'off-hours'

One ticket I had to call a CC staff member out on, the day Ernie officially hired me, as there was some bullshit about a 5-8 hour ramtest. With a few machines showing classic hardware failure signs (have worked in a DC, where we would swap drives to a new chassis) if hardware problems were expected.

I understand this is different with RTO - but we were made to jump through hoops with hours of downtime to be told "all was okay" after.

Also rubbish like return-paths of ~10kbps across multiple servers, then it's "fixed" an hour later taking a different route. Not saturated bandwidth my arse. Don't want to mention the (7) /24's I saw registered under HVH's name when Ernie only requested half of one /24. I remember finding out since someone asked why HVH was showing on the IPs.

The next day they were all changed. Shit like that made me want to run. Explains how they're snatching so many IPs 



buffalooed said:


> What was that for from HVH? Can you link the purchased item and edit that into the original post?


CC doesn't have any $25 dollar offerings. My guess is like a Managed VPS with Fantastico added on or something.

I'm guessing he turned over the keys and they just swapped out the name in Ernie's CC processor.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

libro22 said:


> It's a managed VPS with discount coupon plus a freebie.


A link to the promo would help piecing this all together tightly.  Any idea of the managed VPS details --- RAM, disk and BW?  

HVH's normal full rate plans are here:

http://hudsonvalleyhost.com/managedvps.php


----------



## mikho (Jun 5, 2013)

Kris said:


> I'll let that slide,meatball   (being Norwegian, naturally don't like you, that didn't help)
> 
> I told nothing but the truth. Jon was lying and I simply cleared things up, when it came to HVH owning their hardware. When he implied I did anything less than take Ernie from a small LET kiddie host who couldn't manage his servers -> #1 for search terms on Google / expanding rapidly - I took some issue. If anything, I downplayed what I did for that company in terms of helping him grow and choose a proper infrastructure.
> 
> Btw Mikho, I remember that thread ending with me calling Ernie telling Jon to keep his mouth shut if he didn't want me to spill any beans, knowing the implosion that was going on there. Jon quickly stepped back in line and edited his post.


No harm ment, even since you are Norwegian (didn't know that), perhaps I should draw you a picture so you understand. 

Off-topic: To all of you outside of Scandinavia, there has always been a friendly(?) humor between Norway and Sweden, not that different then all the mexican jokes in the US.

Back to story:

I do believe you in everything you say, sometimes one must read between the lines when there are things that wasn't working out between two parties. I have the same feelings against my old work-place (when compared to where I work now). Over time, giving it some distance some people can look upon it with some distance but when in the middle of it, it is so frustrating it hurts.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Off-topic: To all of you outside of Scandinavia, there has always been a friendly(?) humor between Norway and Sweden, not that different then all the mexican jokes in the US.


Oh, so they're taking your jobs? 

They terk err jerrbbs!


----------



## libro22 (Jun 5, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> A link to the promo would help piecing this all together tightly.  Any idea of the managed VPS details --- RAM, disk and BW?
> 
> HVH's normal full rate plans are here:
> 
> http://hudsonvalleyhost.com/managedvps.php


I believe I told you the details through PM, anyway, for those who are curious, here's the discounted package:



> Starter Managed VPS (Normally $30/mo): Now $22.50/mo
> 
> 30 GB Disk Space
> 
> ...



I got add-ons on that too, that's why it was $25 (the add-ons were discounted too  ).


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Off-topic: To all of you outside of Scandinavia, there has always been a friendly(?) humor between Norway and Sweden, not that different then all the mexican jokes in the US.


+1 - It's an ongoing laugh between us.... I drive a Volvo :lol:



mikho said:


> I do believe you in everything you say, sometimes one must read between the lines when there are things that wasn't working out between two parties. I have the same feelings against my old work-place (when compared to where I work now)


Totally understandable, I really tried to just state "HVH didn't own their servers, I was responsible for a lot", but only after he (deleted) implied I did something bad / less than stellar work & giving Ernie 1 year of my life down the pisser.



MannDude said:


> They terk err jerrbbs!


Calm down Skeeter, he ain't hurtin nobody. :lol:


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

libro22 said:


> I believe I told you the details through PM, anyway, for those who are curious, here's the discounted package:
> 
> I got add-ons on that too, that's why it was $25 (the add-ons were discounted too  ).


Another thing I had Ernie fix, as well as limiting IPs / charging more than his price


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

So who volunteers to post a message over on the e-vile LET saying "Hudson Valley Host = Colocrossing --- the proof..."?

...basically with just a small teaser and a link to this thread.


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

Why even bother? People are going to start noticing with this crap on their CC statements.

Not worth giving them the content or traffic. Let it slowly fade into the abyss.


----------



## mikho (Jun 5, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Oh, so they're taking your jobs?
> 
> They terk err jerrbbs!


Not really, we send them the people we don't want to work in their hospitals and fish factory's. That way we can keep them under control


----------



## Kris (Jun 5, 2013)

mikho said:


> Not really, we send them the people we don't want to work in their hospitals and fish factory's. That way we can keep them under control


Meanwhile, just send people we don't like to Sweden, full stop. Pushishment enough, Ja?  :lol:


----------



## Zen (Jun 5, 2013)

You could wrangle up a list of at least 5-10 VPS operations ran by CC that aren't official. It's a shame they have to come out one by one, I think of how funny it would be to see them all outed at once.


----------



## SeriesN (Jun 5, 2013)

I am pretty sure JB is all like, Oh boy. Here we go again.


----------



## jarland (Jun 5, 2013)

SeriesN said:


> I am pretty sure JB is all like, Oh boy. Here we go again.


Why would Bieber be interested?


----------



## SeriesN (Jun 5, 2013)

jarland said:


> Why would Bieber be interested?


He went to the same daycare.


----------



## KuJoe (Jun 5, 2013)

I made the comment on IRC that the easiest way to be unique in the VPS market is to not be hosting in a CC data center, it looks like it's even easier to be unique by not being own by CC.  :lol:


----------



## Mun (Jun 5, 2013)

@jarland, you'd better not make a Justin Bieber node.  <_<


----------



## Reece-DM (Jun 5, 2013)

Probably CC is getting people in debt with they're 24 month RTO?

Either way, I'm not shocked another company is linked to CC - I'm sure there will be many more coming out of the wood works.


----------



## jarland (Jun 5, 2013)

Reece said:


> Probably CC is getting people in debt with they're 24 month RTO?
> 
> Either way, I'm not shocked another company is linked to CC - I'm sure there will be many more coming out of the wood works.


At one point in a comment on LEB, Fabozzi said that he runs something like 3 other VPS companies that no one knew about. It was when he was admitting to running BuffaloVPS all along. Searched high and low, that comment isn't there anymore. Few things I remember that clearly, and surely someone else remembers it too, but the point is that whole circle of people just loves trying to pull things over on people. Funny thing is they don't have to. There's simply no need. They could be doing just fine at what they do without being shady. Some people just can't help it I suppose.

Not that I much care anymore, but you know, just shooting the breeze.


----------



## CVPS_Chris (Jun 5, 2013)

jarland said:


> but the point is that whole circle of people just loves trying to pull things over on people


Im not trying to pull anything over anyones eyes. If you think you are the detective you think you are, go and find out. Second, I never said VPS companies specifically, hosting yes, and has nothing to do with this industry.

As for the whole HVH thing, that invoice is kinda wierd, and not sure how they could take their way out of that one. Guess we all learn something sometimes, and are caught off guard from it


----------



## Reece-DM (Jun 5, 2013)

CVPS_Chris said:


> Im not trying to pull anything over anyones eyes. If you think you are the detective you think you are, go and find out. Second, I never said VPS companies specifically, hosting yes, and has nothing to do with this industry.
> 
> As for the whole HVH thing, that invoice is kinda wierd, and not sure how they could take their way out of that one. Guess we all learn something sometimes, and are caught off guard from it


The same as we all learnt about  colocrossings & your shady operations with them.

Enough said.


----------



## CVPS_Chris (Jun 5, 2013)

Reece said:


> The same as we all learnt about  colocrossings & your shady operations with them.
> 
> Enough said.


If you say so. Dont drag me into the doings of ColoCrossing that is all I ask. I was lied to as much as you, just remember that.


----------



## jarland (Jun 5, 2013)

CVPS_Chris said:


> If you say so. Dont drag me into the doings of ColoCrossing that is all I ask. I was lied to as much as you, just remember that.


----------



## CVPS_Chris (Jun 5, 2013)




----------



## jarland (Jun 5, 2013)

It's not like people claiming shady tactics out of there is even new information.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120204165343/http://www.gspblog.com/sitenews/lets-hear-from-you-colocrossing-whats-going-on/

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1114796

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1111564

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1093121

Sometimes better to just walk away. That goes for you too Chris. CVPS could be so much more in better cages.


----------



## Mun (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorta would be nice is @cvps_chris would respond to his PM about vpswiki.us so I doesn't look like I have the hate on for all things CC.

@jarland, i love watching that video for some reason, brings back childhood memories. Also very odd article, seems like they began pushing to 12 month plans to guarantee something.


----------



## HostUS-Alexander (Jun 5, 2013)

They have a 'Partner Ship'


----------



## MannDude (Jun 5, 2013)

jarland said:


> It's not like people claiming shady tactics out of there is even new information.
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20120204165343/http://www.gspblog.com/sitenews/lets-hear-from-you-colocrossing-whats-going-on/
> 
> ...


Some good reads indeed. Now he (Jon) is running around trying to make unheard of deals to customers and people he's not contacted in a long time. He'd contact Chris M. back when he still owned FTN  about once a week, despite being told many many times we'd not be ordering more servers from them. Hell, I even had a list of all of our CC nodes, sent to Chris, we got a bunch of big backup nodes elsewhere, and we _were _going to pull out of all of our CC locations and setup new nodes elsewhere. That would of been the greatest thing. Alas, it never happened.

When I finally got access to the CC customer portal, I was surprised to see how much shitty support came from Jon and Alex directly, especially since they're 'high level' employees, why are they sitting around answering our support tickets? Short response to a ticket then they close it without it being resolved. Network issues? Nahh, no network issues here! Just hours and hours of our customers complaining.

In short, I do understand the appeal of their stupid pricing and terms. It's enticing, sure. But I'll be happy to not ever have a VPS setup in a CC location, as I know that if shit hits the fan with the node the provider may be waiting a long time for CC to get it resolved or they'll just wait hours on end to see if it fixes itself.



Mun said:


> Sorta would be nice is @cvps_chris would respond to his PM about vpswiki.us so I doesn't look like I have the hate on for all things CC.
> 
> @jarland, i love watching that video for some reason, brings back childhood memories. Also very odd article, seems like they began pushing to 12 month plans to guarantee something.


Try emailing him directly? [email protected] I believe.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

jarland said:


> It was when he was admitting to running BuffaloVPS all along


 

The entire BuffaloVPS fiasco remains highly relative and probably a big piece of the neverending puzzle of how those Buffalo guys do business and bend the rules.   LowendAdmin was all over BuffaloVPS being a front/shill company for CVPS.

Although the company was using Buffalo in the name, they started offering out of Chicago and I believe via CVPS IP range and gear.

The history of BuffaloVPS ownership to the public went something like this:

1. Adam somebody (might this be the very same Adam/Kevin we all now know and love at CVPS).

2. Jeremiah Shinkle was babysitting the operation and seemingly operating the company the whole time.

3.  At some point, ChicagoVPS took over BuffaloVPS, "officially".

What I learned in that little dance is probably exactly what we'll learn in this Hudson Valley Host = Colocrossing fiasco.  It is, Buffalo loves "resellers".  That's right,  BuffaloVPS was a "reseller" of ChicagoVPS -- it _wasn't_ "owned" by CVPS originally, at least they want you to believe that.

Same thing will be squirmed out of by CC.  HVH is a "*reseller*".

Never saw such a dumb ass mess in my life where billing was mishandled like this and cover blown.

I want to believe this is all news to CVPS_Chris, but there aren't that many drugs in the world to make me that stupid.  It's the same modus operandi, part deux.

Who wants to buy one of those $699 full racks with 1Gbps including 2 free months?   Tempting if you are broke or retarded.  Just remember the characters you are dealing with in Buffalo.


----------



## drmike (Jun 5, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I was surprised to see how much shitty support came from Jon and Alex directly, especially since they're 'high level' employees, why are they sitting around answering our support tickets?


Someone call Shinkle and ask him about CC's treatment of customers and how he felt about that...  He was pretty unhappy about Biloh's attitude and customer treatment. 

Jon in particular has used a slew of aliases in support to deal with issues, often using those to ram tickets closed with non answers or to shield himself from customer fury.   Sure, perhaps he's changed that dishonest tactic in the past year.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jun 6, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Who wants to buy one of those $699 full racks with 1Gbps including 2 free months?


699$ for.. that'd be what, a 20A?  Either someone's trying very hard to recover a tarnished reputation, or someone's very strapped for cash and having trouble paying their bills and needs some quick income.  Given the typical "Lol there's nothing wrong about what we do" attitude... I doubt it's the former.


----------



## drmike (Jun 6, 2013)




----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

That $699/m deal is insane if it's true 

I can't complain about Buffalo. It gives us minimal headaches and while we're not getting Level 3, I knew

there was no way we would continue getting a gig of Level 3. I've gone over this multiple times though.

Francisco


----------



## Jack (Jun 6, 2013)




----------



## drmike (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> I can't complain about Buffalo. It gives us minimal headaches and while we're not getting Level 3, I knew
> 
> 
> there was no way we would continue getting a gig of Level 3.
> ...


I take it your invoices stick to the rack rental and that's about it 

Other providers don't have the know-how, plans in place, own their own gear, etc.  So invoices must get dizzying for them and part of the discontent / revenue generation by CC.

$699 full rack, yeah it's true unless multiple people are group circulating manufactured fiction.  Even at $1k a month, the offer isn't sustainable unless you exploit the mass oversell and customer under uses gimmick.

Routes are falling apart in Buffalo. Average dumb user, probably zero clue about all that.  Latency certainly increasing.  Yes, I still have a Buffalo VPS, with BuyVM of course


----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

We pay $999/m as the base cost on our rack. Power is like $250/m per 20A or so?

We don't use support much and more often than not when we do It justifies them billing us network admin time.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jun 6, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> $699 full rack, yeah it's true unless multiple people are group circulating manufactured fiction.  Even at $1k a month, the offer isn't sustainable unless you exploit the mass oversell and customer under uses gimmick.


 

Cramming 80A of power/clients into a 20A rack...  h34r:


----------



## drmike (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> We pay $999/m as the base cost on our rack. Power is like $250/m per 20A or so?
> 
> 
> We don't use support much and more often than not when we do It justifies them billing us network admin time.
> ...


So CC is billing folks for power separately?  That happens elsewhere too, semi uncommon for 120v stuff and normal rack configs.

Would think power in Buffalo is very affordable since lots of hydro in Canada/region.  $12+/A is on the low side   Probably about a $2 profit per amp, minimum.

The power surcharge totally makes the low low prices less unbelievable.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 6, 2013)

Can someone here get HVH here or Jon B? Would be nice to get their side of the story.


----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> So CC is billing folks for power separately?  That happens elsewhere too, semi uncommon for 120v stuff and normal rack configs.
> 
> Would think power in Buffalo is very affordable since lots of hydro in Canada/region.  $12+/A is on the low side   Probably about a $2 profit per amp, minimum.
> 
> The power surcharge totally makes the low low prices less unbelievable.


Nah nah.

The $999/m covers or initial 20A. If we want another 20A it'd be $250/m more.

It's seen as a really dirty thing to try to make profit off power and is genrally shunned upon from what i've seen.

Francisco


----------



## drmike (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Nah nah.
> 
> 
> The $999/m covers or initial 20A. If we want another 20A it'd be $250/m more.
> ...


Doh!  Makes sense... Yeah crazy prices then.

Better watch before they start charging for actual transit usage 

Power, let's say folks in some markets really lie about the actual costs and do profit quite a bit.  You'd have to be privy to their mass KwH rates.     Smoke and mirrors about not being dirty profiting from such.  Pretty sure Buffalo is flooded with cheap power, all the former industries that aren't there anymore and all that hydro.


----------



## vRozenSch00n (Jun 6, 2013)

As far as I know, my HVH IP was changed to the one belongs to ColoCrossing in late December 2012 and the CPU that was originally 4 x 3.5GHz changed to 4 x 875MHz. 

The website seems to be down since 3 hours ago.


----------



## concerto49 (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> We pay $999/m as the base cost on our rack. Power is like $250/m per 20A or so?
> 
> 
> We don't use support much and more often than not when we do It justifies them billing us network admin time.
> ...


Does this include cross connects or bandwidth? Or remote hands?

That's sort of expensive for Buffalo I'd expect considering the connectivity available. It's worse than Internap pricing


----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> Does this include cross connects or bandwidth? Or remote hands?
> 
> That's sort of expensive for Buffalo I'd expect considering the connectivity available. It's worse than Internap pricing


That includes the gig unmetered our rack came with 

Francisco


----------



## concerto49 (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> That includes the gig unmetered our rack came with
> 
> 
> Francisco


No wonder they dropped level 3 and have all these issues. It's costing $2500/month for a gig here  As in just for the bandwidth ALONE.


----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> No wonder they dropped level 3 and have all these issues. It's costing $2500/month for a gig here  As in just for the bandwidth ALONE.


And that's why I don't break their balls over Level3 

I know L3 has had a few deals for a bug a meg on 10 gig commits just to try to get some markets going but I didn't think Buffalo was one of them.

Francisco


----------



## drmike (Jun 6, 2013)

vRozenSch00n said:


> As far as I know, my HVH IP was changed to the one belongs to ColoCrossing in late December 2012 and the CPU that was originally 4 x 3.5GHz changed to 4 x 875MHz.
> 
> The website seems to be down since 3 hours ago.


Umm, I think what happened in your case was in December (or perhaps November) HVH moved from another data center in NYC following major hurricane damage (Super Storm Sandy).   They moved from there over to being a Colocrossing customer.

Now, I know no one is shipping 875Mhz processors or using them for virtualization, especially on CC's RTO plan.  The problem there, my guess, is the server has CPU power saving enabled.  CPU scaling.

Which website was down earlier? Both CC and HVH appear up now.


----------



## concerto49 (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> And that's why I don't break their balls over Level3
> 
> 
> I know L3 has had a few deals for a bug a meg on 10 gig commits just to try to get some markets going but I didn't think Buffalo was one of them.
> ...


I rather pay more if they had L3 and the rest of it properly blended. This XO randomly appearing and 90% Cogent is meh, but oh well. For the price you pay it's great though.


----------



## MannDude (Jun 6, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> I rather pay more if they had L3 and the rest of it properly blended. This XO randomly appearing and 90% Cogent is meh, but oh well. For the price you pay it's great though.


Didn't they, at one point, advertise having a better blend and then dropped a carrier or two later on?


----------



## Francisco (Jun 6, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> I rather pay more if they had L3 and the rest of it properly blended. This XO randomly appearing and 90% Cogent is meh, but oh well. For the price you pay it's great though.


It would cost way too much to go direct L3. Jon said it was like $5k/m per gig unmetered. Yes, the blend was supposed to be much better but things in NY are stable enough.

NY is just a "pod" for us and is more so to just test the east coast waters. Stallion 2 will likely have us focusing on rolling out more "pods" like this as the feature set gets stronger and stronger.

Francisco


----------



## MannDude (Jun 6, 2013)

Francisco said:


> NY is just a "pod" for us and is more so to just test the east coast waters. Stallion 2 will likely have us focusing on rolling out more "pods" like this as the feature set gets stronger and stronger.


Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago?  B)


----------



## concerto49 (Jun 6, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Didn't they, at one point, advertise having a better blend and then dropped a carrier or two later on?


Exactly did. Telia + L3, no Cogent blah blah.



Francisco said:


> It would cost way too much to go direct L3. Jon said it was like $5k/m per gig unmetered. Yes, the blend was supposed to be much better but things in NY are stable enough.
> 
> 
> NY is just a "pod" for us and is more so to just test the east coast waters. Stallion 2 will likely have us focusing on rolling out more "pods" like this as the feature set gets stronger and stronger.
> ...


It's like $3k/month at most for L3. I'd blend L3 to cut down costs and just use it when it's better - Cogent in some areas isn't bad, but I wouldn't leave L3 out completely.


----------



## concerto49 (Jun 6, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago?  B)


Anyone interested in sharing a rack in Dallas?


----------



## drmike (Jun 7, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> Exactly did. Telia + L3, no Cogent blah blah.
> 
> It's like $3k/month at most for L3. I'd blend L3 to cut down costs and just use it when it's better - Cogent in some areas isn't bad, but I wouldn't leave L3 out completely.


Dude!  It's Gogent.   Really go read Biloh's ads on WHT prior to say January where he mocks Cogent bandwidth as Gogent.

Dallas and sharing a rack?  Plenty of real, honest and big providers with competitive pricing there, no reason to sell your soul to the dark side.  But beware, Dallas County has a f'd up tax on colocated gear.  Still dealing with that nonsense.  Pure extortion and a tax based on nothing factual other than I had a server there.   I'd stay out of Dallas County for that reason


----------



## drmike (Jun 7, 2013)

I forgot to add this earlier when the thread started and was proven CC+HVH being a cluster f':

*Don't DDoS me bro!*

MannDude and the pony team have been mopping up the attacks all day.


----------



## MannDude (Jul 18, 2013)

Sorry to bump this old thread, but was browsing LEB offers this evening and came across a HVH offer.



So, appears they have some sort of 'financial relationship' with Colocrossing. At least we got a semi-official word from a CC employee.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 18, 2013)

So what is this 'financial relationship' ?

Is CC just their credit card processor then? Is their paypal still in their name?

Francisco


----------



## MannDude (Jul 18, 2013)

Francisco said:


> So what is this 'financial relationship' ?
> 
> 
> Is CC just their credit card processor then? Is their paypal still in their name?
> ...




I don't know. 'sysadmin' said I could post a thread on LET in regards to it if I wanted, but I'd rather not. Seems pointless if I can't refer to the original claim (this thread) as reference for why the thread was created.


----------



## Epidrive (Jul 18, 2013)

I guess they're in some sort of a partnership.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 19, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I don't know. 'sysadmin' said I could post a thread on LET in regards to it if I wanted, but I'd rather not. Seems pointless if I can't refer to the original claim (this thread) as reference for why the thread was created.


I get that. The CC guys aren't dumb, they know it'd bring a lot of drama to LET and likely spark some posting again.

I'm not sure why Alex goes by that handle still. Now that things are out in the open he's not appearing as ...welcoming? as Jon is. Jon carries his administrator group and tags so everyone knows it's him and can address him.

If you're wanting to really get to the bottom of this all just post it on WHT. The mods there don't care about linking to here (as far as I know) and you don't have to worry about it getting possibly removed.

It'd likely cause quite a bit of hurt to HVH though.

Francisco


----------



## MannDude (Jul 22, 2013)

Francisco said:


> If you're wanting to really get to the bottom of this all just post it on WHT. The mods there don't care about linking to here (as far as I know) and you don't have to worry about it getting possibly removed.


I would, but they don't seem to have a big interest in keeping companies honest over there. They do to a degree, but I reported the other shell companies and they said: "I can't see that it is the same person through all the tools we have as yet."


----------



## Lee (Jul 22, 2013)

From the documents and emails that were released from the CC leak a while back (not the databases) it suggests CC certainly does have a vested interest in HVH.


----------



## MannDude (Jul 22, 2013)

W1H-Lee said:


> From the documents and emails that were released from the CC leak a while back (not the databases) it suggests CC certainly does have a vested interest in HVH.


CC leak?


----------



## TheLinuxBug (Jul 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> CC leak?


This is what they call the anal leakage that you get after being screwed by CC.  In case you were a member of LET and were wondering why after the truth came out you had a strange mess in your underwear, you got the CC leak! 

/sarcasm

Cheers!


----------



## drmike (Oct 15, 2013)

From LET today or yesterday:



> Biloh said:
> 
> Obviously I don't know the nature of your experience with that dedicated server through CVPS but sometimes hardware is problematic. I regret you had any problem at all of course and hope that you'll give us / any of our customers a try again in the future.
> 
> ...


Does Equinix claim I have financial relationship with them?  No.  I am a customer.  I pay my invoices for services.  Perhaps I am an asset for valuation in case of sale/buyout/stock offering/etc.   But to claim a financial relationship is entirely different.

I call it how I see it.  Word games don't change that something foul is going on.

Yeah CC might not own HVH on paper, but come on, HVH pushes CC offers as pass throughs  and they shit canned all their other non CC locations.  It is a CC calling card.  One day, they might realize that 

Folks with Hudson Valley still getting invoiced/payment cleared by ColoCrossing?


----------



## DomainBop (Oct 15, 2013)

> Yeah CC might not own HVH on paper,


If they don't own HVH on paper and they're processing transactions for Hudson Valley Host services through the ColoCrossing merchant account it would be a violation of Visa and Mastercard regulations which prohibit  a merchant account holder from processing payments through their account for a 3rd party company (this process is called "factoring" or "transaction laundering" or "credit card laundering" depending on the merchant agreement).  The penalty for factoring is termination of the merchant account, and if you get your account terminated for this you get added to Visa/Mastercard's TMF list (aka Match list) which is essentially a blacklist which makes it almost impossible to ever get another merchant account.

This article has a very good explanation of factoring

http://www.merchantequip.com/merchant-account-blog/140/factoring-credit-card-laundering

...and another good article:

http://www.inc.com/articles/2000/07/19681.html

Another important thing to know is that if you get a merchant account to process credit card transactions for DBA1.com and your company later opens (or acquires) a second website DBA2.com merchant banks will require you to get a separate merchant account for the new DBA2 because it is also considered factoring if you process transactions for a DBA that is different than the one that was approved when you got the first merchant account, even if your company owns both DBA's/websites.  Most merchants are unaware of this until they get a nasty letter or phone call from their merchant bank .


----------



## drmike (Oct 15, 2013)

> "Another important thing to know is that if you get a merchant account to process credit card transactions for DBA1.com and your company later opens (or acquires) a second website DBA2.com merchant banks will require you to get a separate merchant account for the new DBA2 because it is also considered factoring"


Factoring, would that be your RISK FACTOR?   I am pretty sure it is.  That is how they determine (historically) your risk, credit worthiness, rates for transactions, etc.

* It is rumored that a huge amount of terrorist activity is funded illegally with credit cards.*







Seems like an obvious rouse to circumvent the beloved tax man also.


----------

