# [Industry Question] How Do You Pay Support Staff?



## ComputerTrophy (Aug 10, 2013)

So I was wondering (mainly for small VPS hosting companies), how do you pay support staff?

Per ticket? How much?

Per month? How much?

I'm asking from the perspective of a new VPS hosting company, where profit isn't easily gained without hard work.

I found an 11-year old example here: http://d.pr/i/2UGL


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## shawn_ky (Aug 10, 2013)

That's a good question. I would think in the early stages, it's a lot of 1 or 2 man shows of those that have a vested interest. Would be interesting to find out. I know a couple on here are techs for larger companies...


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## ComputerTrophy (Aug 10, 2013)

I mean in the future, when the company expands.


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## Slownode (Aug 10, 2013)

You can hire me for $30 an hour, I can offer support on all levels and in all departments. lol


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## ComputerTrophy (Aug 10, 2013)

But seriously, how much do you guys pay?

Minimum wages: https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates


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## notFound (Aug 10, 2013)

For a host like yours which isn't tax registered, or registered at all from the looks of it here in the UK minimum wages don't mean anything, it won't be official. Personally, I see many smaller hosts with per month payments and a  little larger ones with per week etc, and then there are some in between with per ticket payments. At least that's how I see it.


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## ComputerTrophy (Aug 10, 2013)

Well, how much do you guys pay, @Infinity?


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## drmike (Aug 10, 2013)

People get funny about money and disclosing any details of their corporation 

I know IPXCore was shopping for support folks on a per ticket basis in the past month or so on here.  That was top level support to field incoming tickets and handle the RTFM or delegate to someone else with tech-know-how on as-needed basis.   $2 per ticket.

http://vpsboard.com/topic/805-level-1-tech/

If anyone needs a Level 1  tech, I'll do all the tickets you have @ $1 per ticket


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## MannDude (Aug 10, 2013)

Contract pay, per week.

Thought your workers can only be 'contract workers' for so long before they need to be employees, as I understand.


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## drmike (Aug 10, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Thought your workers can only be 'contract workers' for so long before they need to be employees, as I understand.


In the USA, the IRS dictates who and what is a contractor.  It's a truly abused and muddied area by many employers / companies.

There is no limit on the duration of contract that turns the person into an employee. Instead, in determining employee or contractor status there are certain jobs, control over the person doing the work, where the work is done, nature of the work, etc. that help determine contractor or employee is proper relationship.

Many contractors are in actuality employees and being part of IRS deception / employee abuse.  Problem with enforcing things like that is a company caught abusing status simply will then go and outsource the work, especially abroad where no one cares and will even whisper about such status.


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## Slownode (Aug 10, 2013)

Tickets are awful for commission style work because the amount of work a ticket needs can be 5 seconds to an hour depending on the problem.

You really just need to do regular auditing of hourly work.

The ISPs I know pay min wage(10.25) to $25 depending on the support position, the shady ones pay below min with outsourced labour and illegally clock fewer hours.

Also... please don't start a host unless you're very good at security...


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## RyanD (Aug 10, 2013)

We have only full time employees, paid hourly / salary. 

Salary expectations for good techs are going to be 30-75k/yr + benefits.


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## Francisco (Aug 10, 2013)

Liquor.

Francisco


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## shawn_ky (Aug 10, 2013)

Sounds like some pretty good pay, especially working remotely... I might need to look into some part time work after my normal work hours... (wouldn't need benefits!)


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## Jade (Aug 10, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Contract pay, per week.
> 
> Thought your workers can only be 'contract workers' for so long before they need to be employees, as I understand.


That's how it works? If your staff is being paid as 'Independent Contractors' then eventually you have to make them a full time employee?


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## shawn_ky (Aug 10, 2013)

Not necessarily. Depends on a lot of factors as @Buffalooed alluded to....


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## splitice (Aug 11, 2013)

Independent contractors, they send me an invoice for their services weekly.

So I don't have to worry about any employee tax issues I currently don't employ any Australians.




Francisco said:


> Liquor.
> 
> Francisco


 

Are you hiring?


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## drmike (Aug 11, 2013)

BuyVM is my favorite.  Paying in Russian Vodka   Hey I know drunks then end up that route normally.  Makes me want to employ them and then own the local pub too.

No one is paying in food vouchers, tacos, etc.  ?


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## Reece-DM (Aug 11, 2013)

It would depend, if your outsourcing support tickets to a third-party rather than a real support worker, then per ticket you can expect around $2 - 5 this is due to the vast amount of people offering support services in india ( I swear they never sleep!) which has drastically taken the pricing down per ticket, but then again the work is spread between a lot of people. Biggest problem I found using third-party support, you will face a lot of broken english & them trying to get tickets done quickly rather than putting time into it.

For level 1 work, I've always been around £7 - 8 an hour depending the the timeframes etc.

For level 2 + I can expect around £8 - £12 an hour.

It all boils down to what is required from the staff when being employed, the hours worked and the technical support actually required within your levels of support.


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## MartinD (Aug 11, 2013)

Stick them on a 0-hour contract. Seems to be the 'done thing' these days.


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## HostUS-Alexander (Aug 11, 2013)

I've never understood per ticket pay? A $7/month client could create 5 tickets, 5 tickets at $2, BAM goes your profit.


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## MartinD (Aug 11, 2013)

Only profit from that client however, if they're paying $7month it's more likely that the first ticket has wiped out the profit.

However, multiply that up over 100 clients. If 5 of them submit a ticket...you can see the figures are more favourable.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 11, 2013)

MartinD said:


> Stick them on a 0-hour contract. Seems to be the 'done thing' these days.


@MartinD - it is indeed over here!

In regards to my response earlier, I wouldn't be paying someone £7+ a hour unless I had a very defined market and level of support which is required. More so for managed clients whom own there own businesses rather than most LEB host's who offer unmanaged services.

You pay for what you get. I don't expect any support from a $3 a month VPS, maybe a bit of help with questions but technical support no. All that  matters in this case is that the rented H/W actually works with being able to use it.


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## Magiobiwan (Aug 12, 2013)

I get paid mostly in servers, but I average ~$30 per week. Then again, I work only a couple of hours every week. Like 2 or 3. I have no idea how ANY student could run a VPS hosting business during the summer. I'm WAAAAY too busy!


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## concerto49 (Aug 12, 2013)

Magiobiwan said:


> I get paid mostly in servers, but I average ~$30 per week. I'm looking for a potential supplemental income position, and I have experience already. And time.


I thought you're one of the owners? Where are you from? Do you only do support there?


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## Reece-DM (Aug 12, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> I thought you're one of the owners? Where are you from? Do you only do support there?


And a verified provider..


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## egihosting (Aug 12, 2013)

We have a 24/7 shop so 3 techs a day with 8 hours shifts, 5 days a week, paid bi-weekly


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## zomgmike (Aug 12, 2013)

There's no short answer to that question.  The pay fluctuates with experience, benefits, technical skills, customer service skills, and that certain je ne sais quoi that is important in all jobs.  Toss in that you're asking specifically about small hosting companies and all the numbers change a little for that, too.  For the sake of this post I'll assume that all compensation is cash.  Adjust these numbers if you're giving equity, benefits, flexible hours, pizza, or liquor.  So with the numbers below, if the guy should be at $20/hour and you pay him $10/hour + profit sharing, ideally that adds up to the equivalent of $20/hour, on average.

You can pull in a decent out-of-market employee for about $10/hour, but don't expect to keep them unless they see the job (and their pay!) going somewhere.  Think of this as a warm body picking up the phone and weeding out password reset tickets. Some of the best employees I've ever seen in the hosting industry have been hired out of sandwich shops.  Guys who have an aptitude for computers but were just flipping burgers tend to be motivated not to go back to flipping burgers. 

$8-$11 per hour - This is the $10/hour employee after he knows what hosting is and some basic technical aspects about it.  Expect the employee to be able to follow simple, well defined processes.  Simple problem solving and basic customer service should be needed, but at this pay rate many tickets will likely need to be escalated.  If your $8-$11/hour employee doesn't seem to have a desire to increase his skill set, he probably won't pan out in the long run.

$12-$20/hour - These employees should be able to handle about 80%-90% of what's thrown at them, especially things that happen regularly.  They should have the talent level necessary to only escalate tickets that are above their permission levels.  This is the pay scale where you stop using the word "job" and start using the word "career."  If your employee at this pay rate is calling this a "job" as if it's not going to be his career, this is probably as high in your food chain as he'll get.

$21-$39/hour - At this pay rate they should be able to handle the top escalations of tickets.  These employees often grow frustrated of entry-level tickets, so if they're the only cowboy in your rodeo you might need to pick one with the right persona.  If they're still willing to do password resets with a smile, you have a keeper. Treat him well.

$40+/hour - Employees asking for this pay rate should be beyond the simple fray of clocking in and clocking out.  They should understand the business from top to bottom and their skill set should be exemplary in one or more crucial areas.  They are "company men."  They have a deep, intimate understanding of what the business needs.

Before I get shredded in typical forum fashion, yes, there are plenty of examples that fall outside the rules of thumb that I have listed. 

In my opinion, the most sucessful small hosts that make the jump from being a one man show to a full 24/7 staff cycle do so by paying less cash per hour and offering profit sharing and/or equity.  That tends to work great during growth stages when the employee can see a future for himself, but expect difficulty with retention if the company is just treading water and you want to compensate with equity or profit sharing.


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## kaniini (Aug 12, 2013)

InvokeVM-Kelvin said:


> So I was wondering (mainly for small VPS hosting companies), how do you pay support staff?
> 
> Per ticket? How much?
> 
> ...


Anyone who is actually good will likely want to be paid salary.


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## MannDude (Aug 12, 2013)

kaniini said:


> Anyone who is actually good will likely want to be paid salary.


Hourly work is also nice. 40 hour a week job, over that, overtime. Salary sounds nice, sounds like big boy pay, but you may take home less and work more hours.


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## shawn_ky (Aug 12, 2013)

A few of my friends call it slavery. Usually very little to stop a boss from taking advantage of the amount of time worked.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 13, 2013)

kaniini said:


> Anyone who is actually good will likely want to be paid salary.



Actually, my condition for coming off a delivery route and taking the IT spot at Coke was that they move the IT job from salary to hourly pay.  I want my damn overtime >_>


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## threz (Aug 13, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Actually, my condition for coming off a delivery route and taking the IT spot at Coke was that they move the IT job from salary to hourly pay.  I want my damn overtime >_>


I'm amazed that in some places salaried means no overtime pay. While I'm not in the tech field, I'm on salary and get overtime pay (or time off in-lieu) at 1.5x my effective hourly rate based on what my expected work hours for salary are. 

Is it really that common otherwise?


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## concerto49 (Aug 13, 2013)

threz said:


> I'm amazed that in some places salaried means no overtime pay. While I'm not in the tech field, I'm on salary and get overtime pay (or time off in-lieu) at 1.5x my effective hourly rate based on what my expected work hours for salary are.
> 
> Is it really that common otherwise?


It depends on the contract. Some say that "reasonable" overtime is a part of your job, which generally means no overtime except disasters but can be abused etc.


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## shawn_ky (Aug 13, 2013)

threz said:


> I'm amazed that in some places salaried means no overtime pay. While I'm not in the tech field, I'm on salary and get overtime pay (or time off in-lieu) at 1.5x my effective hourly rate based on what my expected work hours for salary are.
> 
> Is it really that common otherwise?


I have never had this option... Don't know anyone around me that does either.. Would be happy to have such a contract tho.


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## Magiobiwan (Aug 13, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> I thought you're one of the owners? Where are you from? Do you only do support there?


LOL I wish. I'm what's called "Level 1 Support". I don't do much.


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## VPSCorey (Aug 14, 2013)

If you pay per ticket it's likely they will skim up all the easy tickets to make money and rarely touch hard tickets.

FWIW it's no secret that many hosts outsource, WebbyCart, WebHostRepo (Supposed to mean repository lol), and many others exist in this space and do a pretty good job with the L1/L2 tickets.  Some even have phone support, US or Overseas, specialize in languages for those who have many foreign customers.

Some companies insource minimum wage employees in the US setting up call farms in rural areas where cost of living is dirt cheap as well.

Didnt Wendys outsource the drive through window to India in a experiment?  Might of been another fast food chain, but that was a eye roller if there ever was one.


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## shawn_ky (Aug 14, 2013)

Outsourced drive-thru windows: http://news.foodfacts.info/2006/11/outsourcing-drive-thru-window.html

Not a fan of outsourcing for big companies, but definitely see the value.  AT&T continues to hire workers in my area for the call center. A decent wage for this area that wouldn't fly in the bigger cities...


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## zomgmike (Aug 15, 2013)

Regarding overtime, to the best of my knowledge our field is exempt from overtime laws in most US jurisdictions.  If the employer chooses to provide overtime pay, that's  (legally speaking) going above and beyond. I'm not a lawyer and not well-read on law, just the answer I've seen in each jurisdiction in which I've looked.

For a small company like the OP is asking about, you may find a better solution is comp time.  So if your man works all night unexpectedly, perhaps you give him an equal number of regularly scheduled hours off from work.  Financially it flows better for you and for him well, whether or not he's entitled to it, he deserves it.

Or just give him beer. I think a man working on servers feels more like a man if he can have a bottle of suds.


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