# Windows 9?



## TruvisT (Aug 6, 2014)

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-threshold-more-on-microsofts-plan-to-win-over-windows-7-users-7000031070/

What is everyone's take on where Microsoft is going with their OS now?


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## devonblzx (Aug 6, 2014)

I think the outcry over Win 8 is by people who never really gave it a chance or didn't go on to learn how to use the benefits.  I wouldn't go back to Win 7 now.  Win 8 has a better task manager, a quicker search engine, and a variety of other improvements.  While it did have some major changes, that's to be expected with any new major version of an OS.

Honestly, who needs a start menu when you can hit the Windows key, start typing a programs name, hit enter and the program is launched.

Want to open Firefox?  Hit windows, type fi, type Enter.  Boom!  This was possible on older operating systems, but not nearly as good.  They also added a bunch of shortcuts.  For Linux administrators, we all get used to using the keyboard for most things anyways.


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## QuadraNet.Dustin (Aug 6, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> I think the outcry over Win 8 is by people who never really gave it a chance or didn't go on to learn how to use the benefits.


Have to agree with you, I personally avoided it for a while. Finally gave in with the Surface Pro 3.

With start8 app, I can't complain


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## TruvisT (Aug 6, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> I think the outcry over Win 8 is by people who never really gave it a chance or didn't go on to learn how to use the benefits.  I wouldn't go back to Win 7 now.  Win 8 has a better task manager, a quicker search engine, and a variety of other improvements.  While it did have some major changes, that's to be expected with any new major version of an OS.
> 
> Honestly, who needs a start menu when you can hit the Windows key, start typing a programs name, hit enter and the program is launched.
> 
> Want to open Firefox?  Hit windows, type fi, type Enter.  Boom!  This was possible on older operating systems, but not nearly as good.  They also added a bunch of shortcuts.  For Linux administrators, we all get used to using the keyboard for most things anyways.


THIS! I got very used to the Win 7 type and enter. Very much a Linux feel. However, for a lot of the businesses that had Windows 8, I was stuck giving them startisback or classicshell to keep them happy. I've found Windows 8.1 really quick and nice and have gotten used to it. The only thing I hate are the apps having defaults in opening images ect...  



QuadraNet.Dustin said:


> Have to agree with you, I personally avoided it for a while. Finally gave in with the Surface Pro 3.
> 
> With start8 app, I can't complain


How is the Surface Pro 3? It looks cool but I just can't justify the cost when compared to something like a Yoga Pro 2.


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## QuadraNet.Dustin (Aug 6, 2014)

TruvisT said:


> How is the Surface Pro 3? It looks cool but I just can't justify the cost when compared to something like a Yoga Pro 2.


It's awesome, it's my new baby - use it for work/personal, dock both at home and work with it.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 6, 2014)

Am I just better skilled in pattern recognition than most?


'95, sucked ass.  '97, fixed the 95 issues, was 'alright'
ME, sucked ass.  XP, fixed the ME issues, was 'alright'
Vista, sucked ass.  W7, fixed the Vista issues, was 'alright'
W8, ...what the hell.  W9?  Likely very similar, with improvements from listening to W8 critique.
8 was just the trial run for the next two-stage generation.


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## devonblzx (Aug 6, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Am I just better skilled in pattern recognition than most?
> 
> 
> '95, sucked ass.  '97, fixed the 95 issues, was 'alright'
> ...


You left out the best Windows platform: 2K which was actually what was released after ME.  Windows 2000 was the platform for XP too, XP just updated some things and added themes.  ME was a quick release for people worried about Y2K from what I remember (lol).

Honestly, I feel the same about Vista.  Vista was a big change from XP, it had some bugs at the beginning, once they were fixed, it was an alright operating system.  The differences between the updated Vista and Windows 7 were minimal.  I ran Vista without any issues for a year before I got the free upgrade to 7.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 6, 2014)

Eh, I figured I missed a couple generations there to be honest.  I dropped Windows in favour of Linux (primarily, Debian) back in the mid 90s, and never looked back.  I'm forced to use it at Coke, but I'm currently working on a way around that as well.


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## mikho (Aug 7, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Am I just better skilled in pattern recognition than most?
> 
> 
> '95, sucked ass. '97, fixed the 95 issues, was 'alright'
> ...


All OS versions you say "sucked ass" were all released with major changes compared to the the previous version:


95 VS 3.11 - multiple GUI changes.


You did forget the NT part in the history as well.


MS first 32-bit OS and the fact that Windows XP was actually a NT successor with Windows 95/98/ME GUI.


Vista was the first Windows OS with User Account Control, running as a non-priviledged user and when needed sudo as root.


Also the first version where MS decided that all hardware calls should go via the OS, no one was allowed to talk to the hardware direct.


One reason that XP is probably the most loved MS OS is the user can do anything the like with it.


From a security point, this OS was also one of the easiest to hack since all applications/services were allowed full access everywhere.


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## mikho (Aug 7, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> Honestly, I feel the same about Vista. Vista was a big change from XP, it had some bugs at the beginning, once they were fixed, it was an alright operating system. The differences between the updated Vista and Windows 7 were minimal. I ran Vista without any issues for a year before I got the free upgrade to 7.


When Vista was a "hot topic" I noticed a huge difference in performance if you installed it with or without slipstreaming the service packs.


So it did develop alot over the years it was active on the market.


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## wlanboy (Aug 7, 2014)

mikho said:


> Vista was the first Windows OS with User Account Control, running as a non-priviledged user and when needed sudo as root.
> 
> 
> Also the first version where MS decided that all hardware calls should go via the OS, no one was allowed to talk to the hardware direct.


Good point.

Windows Vista "sucked" because MS changed a lot of APIs.

The non-priv users was one part, the no direct access to hardware the other one.

Windows 7 did not "suck" because the drivers and the software developers adopted their stuff to the new principles MS provided with Vista.

So new stuff of Vista was:


Aero
Default programms
Search panel on start menu
Icons with 256 × 256 pixels
Column headers on all Explorer views
Windows flip (Alt+Tab)
JPG+PNG wallpapers without active desktop
Disc cleanup
Dialog boxes also display their status on the taskbar
Windows search
Windows sidebar
Backup and Restore Center
Windows Contacts - no more WAB
Snipping Tool
 User Account Control
Kernel Patch Protection
BitLocker Drive Encryption
Mandatory Integrity Control
Windows Color System (WCS) for color management
Hybrid Sleep option
Fine-grained power configuration
Windows Mobile Device Center
Sync Center
Easy use of Wlan and Bluetooth
Network Center
A lot of stuff that people connect to Windows 7


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2014)

mikho said:


> All OS versions you say "sucked ass" were all released with major changes compared to the the previous version:
> 
> 
> 95 VS 3.11 - multiple GUI changes.
> ...



I'm fully aware of the major changes.  They were pretty much _why_ those versions "sucked ass".  Like I said, pattern recognition.  Microsoft has a 'great idea', releases it with minimal polish.  Most folks don't like it.  Couple years after, they release a 'fixed' version that is typically well received.  And yes, I know I left out NT.  I said as much before you posted, freely admitting that I hadn't really used Windows since 95


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## clownjugglar (Aug 7, 2014)

Since no one actually replied to OP that I saw in my brief skim... I will. This is from the POV as a desktop user who does CAD work on large monitors.

I think Windows 9 will be accepted. I think the new hybrid start menu that i've seen floating around will bring in desktop users while still allowing Modern UI apps to be discovered and easily accessible without having to interrupt workflows by bringing in the full screen start menu.

I think this will also help ease the shock some users have when moving from 7 -> 9:



> Users running Threshold on a desktop/laptop will get a SKU, or version, that puts the Windows Desktop (for running Win32/legacy apps) front and center.


I kind of like the look of the screen posted here (if it's real): http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-threshold-the-modern-ui-takes-a-backseat-for-desktop-users

Now back to the Windows 8 arguements 

Honestly, 8.1+ didn't bother me that much. Booting to desktop, being able to pin Modern UI apps to the task bar, and the other desktop friendly tweaks (right click the start button!) made for a much better workflow. It also was annoying when you wanted to shutdown your PC prior to 8.1. Not hard, just annoying that the graphical way was buried. I think ctrl-alt-delete still worked, but I barely used 8 prior to the 8.1 update.

Talking about hitting the Windows Key and just typing... that might be fine for people like us, but even I sometimes have to stop and remember the name of the program I want to run. I end up just adding it to the desktop task bar or the full screen start menu. I found it easier sometimes to just hit Windows Key + click 1 icon than Windows Key + typing. Usually not the case, but sometimes. That, or pinning to task bar so it's just one click away.

But now we get into my parents, who can use a computer to start a browser, use facebook, some word processing. They are trained to find the icon they want and click it. They don't know the name of every program installed, mostly just the icon that represents 'the internet' or 'to type a letter'. Plenty of people trained to click icons and not have to worry about what the program is called. They struggled with the Windows Key. "Why can't we just point and click?", "What if we don't know what to type?".

Perhaps they should learn these things. But they don't care to learn them. They just want to get on Facebook or e-mail. Don't get me started with trying to teach them the new way to shutdown the PC (pre-8.1+). Even after 8.1, mom still likes to fight to bring up the charms bar click several times to get to shutdown. I have to remind her there are easier ways now.

These are just my personal experiences. I can easily adapt and it doesn't bother me. I do still however run Windows 7, and will do so for sometime. I also run Arch Linux on several other boxes, so fixing things and change isn't that hard to me.


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## raindog308 (Aug 7, 2014)

My perception of Win 8 is...*hell no*.

Win 8 seems to really want to be "one big screen for your app".  Who the hell works that way?  I have 8 windows open as I type this - VM VPN'd in to work, web browser, a couple file folders, ssh, itunes, etc.  I know you can still run traditional apps but the whole Metro/Modern/whatever idea that I would ever want any app to be full screen is so stupid and backwards and 1990 that I don't want Windows 8, even though I have about 10 MSDN licenses for it.

Yes, I know you _can_ work multi-window but the idea that I would _ever_ want to be non-multi-window or somehow land in such a config is just completely absurd.  I grant I haven't spent much time playing with it.

The core Windows UI hasn't changed much since Windows 95 because it works just fine.  Start menu (not just a button) in the lower left.  Quick launch and task bar on the bottom.  Tray on the right.  Windows.  That NeoWin article shows pretty much Win 7/Win 95, which I'd be fine with.

Maybe on a tablet.  But who buys Microsoft tablets?  I've already got a few hundred bucks' worth of iOS apps and anyone who writes a new mobile app will write it for iOS and Android first, Surface maybe.  Microsoft missed the boat on tablets and phone - welcome to 1985, MSFT.  Why don't you just go stand in the corner with your touch laptops...

MSFT is completely adrift in the consumer space - though they continue to rock on at the business level.  Funny thing is that Windows Server is going in the opposite direction (more command line) which is good.  Not that I have a desire to run it  :lol:


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## raindog308 (Aug 7, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Am I just better skilled in pattern recognition than most?
> 
> 
> '95, sucked ass.  '97, fixed the 95 issues, was 'alright'


I don't remember '95 sucking ass. After years of Win 3.1, Win 95 was pretty nice.


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 7, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> I don't remember '95 sucking ass. After years of Win 3.1, Win 95 was pretty nice.


All I remember of Win 95 is this car racing game I always played.

Oh and the Beige desktop with 256 MB of RAM!!! (And I believe Pentium processors?)


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> All I remember of Win 95 is this car racing game I always played.
> 
> 
> Oh and the Beige desktop with 256 MB of RAM!!! (And I believe Pentium processors?)


Was it the horrid 3D bumper car thing, with the "rearview mirror"?


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 7, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Was it the horrid 3D bumper car thing, with the "rearview mirror"?


I LOVED THE REARVIEW MIRROR IN IT.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> I LOVED THE REARVIEW MIRROR IN IT.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2014)

Just for you, Pie <3

https://archive.org/details/HoverGame


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 7, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Just for you, Pie <3
> 
> https://archive.org/details/HoverGame


I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WHEN I GET BACK FROM WORK.

I also LOVED Al Unser Jr. Racing Game for Windows 95 <3  DAT RACING DOE


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## devonblzx (Aug 7, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> My perception of Win 8 is...*hell no*.
> 
> Win 8 seems to really want to be "one big screen for your app".  Who the hell works that way?  I have 8 windows open as I type this - VM VPN'd in to work, web browser, a couple file folders, ssh, itunes, etc.


I don't use Metro at all.  (The one screen item you are talking about).  You can set Windows 8 to boot right to the desktop and using shortcuts you can pretty much avoid Metro all together but I'm sure it does make it easier for people who want to sync apps between tablets and phones.

The desktop, the control panel, desktop apps are all the same layout and have improved features.  That is exactly what I was talking about, the outcry is because people don't look past the start screen to see what more you can do with Windows 8.  If you really hate the start screen that much, you can use Start8, but honestly I don't ever have to use it.  As I said before, you hit the Windows key and start typing what you want and it comes right up.

I guess Win 9 will address the users who never gave Win 8 a chance.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2014)

I remember when the mentality was _I want features XYZ.  Product A doesn't have these, but B does. I'll buy Product B._ Now it's pretty much _Product A is the only viable choice for my category - I guess I'm forced to buy that and have to get used to the features I don't care for._

Small wonder so many of us went to *nix


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 7, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> As I said before, you hit the Windows key and start typing what you want and it comes right up.


You know this also works with Windows 7.  You hit the Windows Key and the Insertion Point is right on the search bar, which also doubles as the old "Run..." prompt.  Just search your program and you're good.


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## TruvisT (Aug 7, 2014)

BTW:

http://hover.ie

You can still play it


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## Shados (Aug 7, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> You know this also works with Windows 7.  You hit the Windows Key and the Insertion Point is right on the search bar, which also doubles as the old "Run..." prompt.  Just search your program and you're good.


It's also noticeably faster in W7, probably because your machine doesn't have to swap to a fullscreen app and then almost immediately back again.


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## devonblzx (Aug 7, 2014)

HalfEatenPie said:


> You know this also works with Windows 7.  You hit the Windows Key and the Insertion Point is right on the search bar, which also doubles as the old "Run..." prompt.  Just search your program and you're good.


Yes I know, I said in an earlier post that it was available previously but it is just improved.



Shados said:


> It's also noticeably faster in W7, probably because your machine doesn't have to swap to a fullscreen app and then almost immediately back again.


I actually thought it was noticeably faster in Windows 8, usually it is so fast that I don't even see the start screen show up, the app just loads.  It also does a better job of picking  your most used apps and finding more items.  I don't have Windows 7 to compare to anymore but I don't think it used to index your documents, downloads, and appdata folders.


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 7, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> Yes I know, I said in an earlier post that it was available previously but it is just improved.


Ahh... my bad then!


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## nunim (Aug 7, 2014)

I've read through this entire thread and I haven't seen one decent reason for upgrading to Win 8.1 from Win 7.  

I might ditch Windows for my next upgrade as computers are powerful enough to run a full Windows VM if I really need the software.  

There's honestly nothing I NEED Windows for anymore, all of the programs I use regularly have Linux versions or decent alternatives.  The only reason I'm still using 7 is that I couldn't find a decent softphone for Linux but now that I've got a deskphone it's not an issue.


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## WSWD (Aug 9, 2014)

Windows 8 is stupid.  Microsoft's biggest problem is that Windows 8 followed perhaps the best OS ever made by Microsoft.  I absolutely LOVE Windows 7.  It is sooooo smooth and stable.  I have never had a single crash, a single issue, anything at all go wrong on my Windows 7 computers.  And I get my start bar. 

Coincidentally, I was in Vegas all this week, and at the hotel, my girlfriend's laptop (Windows 8) wouldn't connect to the hotel WiFi.  So here I am on the phone with their technical support, without any idea how to open the WiFi settings, adapter settings/properties, etc.  The MAC Address he needed from me?  No freakin' clue how to find it.  We ultimately just gave up.

Windows 8, to me, seems like a completely dumbed down version of Windows, where all the normal stuff is discretely hidden away somewhere, and the user is just presented with the things they need, in that stupid "start screen".  Is that good enough for most people?  Probably.  But for people who actually use computers for well....computing, and not as an extension of our cell phones, Windows 8 is just a freakin' nightmare.

No thanks!


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## devonblzx (Aug 9, 2014)

WSWD said:


> Coincidentally, I was in Vegas all this week, and at the hotel, my girlfriend's laptop (Windows 8) wouldn't connect to the hotel WiFi.  So here I am on the phone with their technical support, without any idea how to open the WiFi settings, adapter settings/properties, etc.  The MAC Address he needed from me?  No freakin' clue how to find it.  We ultimately just gave up.


Right click on the icon in the task bar and click Network & Sharing center just like any other version of Windows or go into the Control Panel by hitting the Windows Key and typing Control Panel, or use the new shortcut Win + i.  The network and sharing center is the same as Windows 7 and is still in the Control Panel.

Edit:  I will admit that some things are or were hard to find with Windows 8.  Windows 8.1 which has been out for a while now addressed some of those problems.  Although, I just took a few hours when Windows 8 first came out, learned the shortcuts and how to use it and haven't looked back since.  Every OS has major changes with new versions.  (Look at CentOS 7)

Another plus for windows 8.1 that I didn't mention before: auto DPI scaling by display.  It will automatically adjust the DPI based on your monitor so for large monitors, things aren't too small and small monitors, things aren't too big.  I kind of wish it was more customizable but still better than the older versions.


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## TruvisT (Aug 9, 2014)

WSWD said:


> ...
> 
> where all the normal stuff is discretely hidden away somewhere, and the user is just presented with the things they need, in that stupid "start screen".  Is that good enough for most people?  Probably.  But for people who actually use computers for well....computing, and not as an extension of our cell phones, Windows 8 is just a freakin' nightmare.
> 
> No thanks!


That is Mac summed up lol
I have to work with Apple and everything is hidden from the hard drive and other common aspects. This whole new less is more concept annoys me.


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## devonblzx (Aug 9, 2014)

WSWD said:


> The MAC Address he needed from me?  No freakin' clue how to find it.  We ultimately just gave up.


I missed this, but this is also the same on Windows 7 and Windows 8.

Open up command prompt and either use:


ipconfig /all

or


```
getmac
```


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## WSWD (Aug 10, 2014)

devonblzx said:


> I missed this, but this is also the same on Windows 7 and Windows 8.
> 
> Open up command prompt and either use:
> 
> ...


No idea how to get to the command prompt.  Wasn't showing up anywhere.  And as far as right clicking on the icon...it didn't exist!  LOL!!  The networking icon was the first thing I looked for, and there was none on the taskbar.  I don't recall there being anything on her taskbar, including a clock.

Eh...who knows.  You'll never find me using Windows 8.  I love Windows 7 and Linux too much.  

[EDIT]  I did eventually find the Networking this evening.  I guess I have to hover over the bottom right of the taskbar, and that opened some section on the right side that flew into the desktop.  It contained settings and all sorts of other stuff.  Bleh!  I'd be happy if I never had to touch that thing again.

I will say that probably the only thing I like about Windows 8 is the ability to reinstall the OS from scratch without the need for media.  I love that feature.  Had to reinstall Windows on her laptop a few times and it worked great.  Was slow as hell, but it worked.  Doing that on other Win OS without a recovery partition or such is impossible.


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## raindog308 (Aug 10, 2014)

Well turns out I'm getting a Windows 8 box after all.  My primary home laptop's hard drive died and the battery is already flakey, so I ordered one of these:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Acer-Aspire-E-15-ES1-511-C590-Laptop/productID.304985400?icid=Chromebook_ModC_072114

Not a bad price (you could get it for $225 if you're a student) for an Atom notebook with 4GB of RAM and 500GB drive.  I don't need CPU performance in a laptop - just office apps + RDP, ssh, VLC for video when traveling, etc.  Hopefully Photoshop is functional for basics.

I'm tempted to put Win 7 on it but usually laptop drivers are not back-ported so...Win 8 here I come.

Any advice on making it more Win 7-like?


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