# WebHostingTalk Worst of the Hosting Industry



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

Finally got done making this video. Just despicable how they treat their visitors and hosts. You deserve better.  (See the youtube description for click links)


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

Somebody needs to cross-post this to LET.


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## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Somebody needs to cross-post this to LET.


I posted it there respectively with no ill-will. I just really want to warn hosts that are thinking of the benefits, they are worthless.  I explained each individual benefit in my video and gave reasons why.  The only one that is actually border-line worth some money is the post time from 3 days instead of 7. But, that's not even including sticky support which can range up to $1,000 / thread, not even including syndicate to twitter ($250), and bold title ($100). It's *OUTRAGEOUS*. This is not even included in the corporate package!


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> I posted it there respectively with no ill-will. I just really want to warn hosts that are thinking of the benefits, they are worthless.  I explained each individual benefit in my video and gave reasons why.  The only one that is actually border-line worth some money is the post time from 3 days instead of 7. But, that's not even including sticky support which can range up to $1,000 / thread, not even including syndicate to twitter ($250), and bold title ($100). It's *OUTRAGEOUS*. This is not even included in the corporate package!


Agree entirely. Corporate membership is bogus, and many get it for free (Jon included).

I have issues with their moderation that go back 5 years. Hands down they have a problematic and entitled approach.


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## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Agree entirely. Corporate membership is bogus, and many get it for free (Jon included).


Didn't even know about that, that's just sad..


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

Just a little cross posting here. These sentiments and ill-will to WHT seems to be spreading, as of late 

http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/web-hosting-reviews/39715-wht.html

Keep up the good work 

Edit: Also worth reading:

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/36821/webhostingtalk-strange-administration


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## MartinD (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Agree entirely. Corporate membership is bogus, and many get it for free (Jon included).


Any proof of this behaviour?


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

MartinD said:


> Any proof of this behaviour?


He told me so via Skype, and he has gotten free membership for another account. There are other people on this forum who are beneficiaries of such.


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## MartinD (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> He told me so via Skype, and he has gotten free membership for another account. There are other people on this forum who are beneficiaries of such.


Well, as we all know, 'his' word cannot be taken for anything more than what it is - bullshit.

Who else?


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Agree entirely. Corporate membership is bogus, and many get it for free (Jon included).
> 
> I have issues with their moderation that go back 5 years. Hands down they have a problematic and entitled approach.


Corporate membership is legit (it exists and many people pay that crazy high $1800 annual amount) and it's overpriced vs. benefits and so called features.

As far as free corporate memberships....  Yes, there is some 'promotional code' floating and a bunch of guys have bought or got such from someone.  Meaning either gratis from their supplier or small fee way less than that fat annual cost (like $100 tops vs. $1800 annual).  Unsure where the code came from or why it exists.  But WHT mods aren't trafficking in such and aren't handing it out.  

WHT moderation  + corporate Inet/Penton folks can scour accounts for payments and substantiate this surely.

*have bought or got such from someone = PAYING middleman with code to go into WHT account, apply code and exit your account.*


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

MartinD said:


> Well, as we all know, 'his' word cannot be taken for anything more than what it is - bullshit.
> 
> Who else?


I sent you a PM with the information requested. Like I said in the PM, I'm not in the business of naming and shaming, but hopefully that PM will help lend some credence to my claim.


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## MartinD (Jun 15, 2015)

On a slightly different note, I was a Corporate Member for a stretch and while I'd agree with some of what's said re the benefits, special treatment etc is a load of crap in my experience.


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## MartinD (Jun 15, 2015)

So, with the information I've received, it would seem that gratis Corporate accounts is a reality. That leaves quite a bitter taste.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

MartinD said:


> On a slightly different note, I was a Corporate Member for a stretch and while I'd agree with some of what's said re the benefits, special treatment etc is a load of crap in my experience.


There are benefits to membership  ?  Sorry it's a bad commercial for what credit card .... AMEX had that slogan right?

Special treatment is edgy part @MartinD.  I see some rough housing at times (on WHT) and outwardly easy to misread things with mods know privileged info (as you certainly know).

If anything they have got slow to react and too much rope to left folks hang past few years.

I give it to @Dillybob for taking the time to put video together.   Good work for a first go.   I am waiting to see the sequel.  We need a video tutorial  Howto make videos like this.


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## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

Tyler said:


> I sent you a PM with the information requested. Like I said in the PM, I'm not in the business of naming and shaming, but hopefully that PM will help lend some credence to my claim.





MartinD said:


> So, with the information I've received, it would seem that *gratis* Corporate accounts is a reality. That leaves quite a bitter taste.



Might be your turn, Tyler (Or MartinD), for a finishing ending blow sequel here.


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Might be your turn, Tyler (Or MartinD), for a finishing ending blow sequel here.


The "proof" is weak at best -- it's really just a list of accounts that I know for a fact have been beneficiaries of this "coupon code". It's really a matter of listening to some of the trusted souls here who can confirm this stuff / already did


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## Tyler (Jun 15, 2015)

@Dillybob, it may also behoove you to look into some active WHT members with dubious history. Some have gotten away with shilling after some pretty damning evidence.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jun 15, 2015)

Alright so this entire video is a hot potato and honestly shouldn't be touched with a 12 foot pole.  I only watched through the first 10 minutes of it so if there's anything else to add on or clarified later then let me know.  

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and give my comments.  Also just to cover my butt and making sure this isn't taken in any misunderstood way, this is my own opinion and does not represent policies or view of vpsB since I do enjoy participating in the community as well as being on staff helping out the community.  

======================================================

My comments may or may not come off as a bit dickish.  But it's just the opinions I get from the video.  

======================================================

As a general rule of thumb, if you want to be taken seriously then don't curse in a video and show that you're pissed off.  It more and more perpetrates that you have a bone to pick with them and might have other agendas involved.  

1. You're expecting WHT to become a governing body of the Web Hosting industry through their Corporate Membership badge.  

1.a. Surprisingly, WHT is not a governing body of the Web Hosting Industry.

1.a.i. This is how regular business works.  It's just much more/easily seen because of the nature of the internet.  Always as a rule of thumb you should probably do some background research on who you're buying from.  The mechanic down the road from your house?  Maybe he's known in the automotive industry as being a guy who acts all friendly but then screws you with fake problems if he thinks you're a sap.  People will dislike him of course but if he decides to advertise his services on any car-service-forum/website and someone actually buys it without research, well then who should be to blame?  What should be happening here is the individual realizing their mistake, learning a lesson, and moving on (because that's part of life).  It's crappy when you get sucked into it but sometimes it's better to learn and go on living. 

1.b. The expectations you're demanding has a different definition from one person to another.  In order for your demand to work, this needs to be standardized.  However, not everyone will be happy with it and will curse at you (the staff) regardless because they didn't get in due to "so and so" but "so and so already got in and already are successful with their own _". 

1.b.i. The amount of manpower required to sift through those "Audits" and "application process" can be time consuming.  People assume it's incredibly quick and easy since they can do it too from their armchair, however (due to the capacity I bet WHT gets) they'd have to hire a few people full-time to sift through the amount of "crap applications".  Don't forget the amount of PMs and messages you get from other individuals who are also demanding your attention on this and that issue and "this person angered me because so and so and should be banned" or "this person said this about me and I find it uncalled for I want you to delete it and their account" (you'd be surprised...).  In my opinion, it's simply asking for an increased workload from the WHT team. 

1.c. You're expecting a privately held company whose bottom line is profits and not ethics to police their own income...  Yeah...  You see the giant meltdown on Reddit?  

2. The general idea behind a free market is that prices change depending on what people are willing to pay.  You may say "paying 1000 dollars to get my post stickied on WHT is bs!" but for some people (as you can obviously see), they do pay that (or get a reduced pricing through discounts or for free.  However WHT values it at 1k USD and it seems to be pretty popular). 

2.a. You're also ignoring the fact that running WHT surprisingly has costs.  Whether it may be infrastructure costs, staffing costs, or advertising costs.  I don't use WHT (I don't think I have an account there), however my assumptions are going to be that the only people who actually get paid are members of iNET Interactive and the community leaders.  This of course depends on the back-end of WHT but with the amount of butthurt script kiddies or just people who sometimes decides to DDoS for fun in addition to the pretty large amount of traffic they get (currently 2349 concurrent users online), I'm going to bet their infrastructure costs and staffing costs are pretty high.  Again, surprisingly not everyone works for third world country wages and if they do, well then you know you're going to get a half-baked terrible experience as you well know by GVH and Johnnyboy having his (younger? baby? I don't remember) sister do server migrations.  Having talented people on staff costs a pretty penny and goes a long way.

2.b. If people are willing to pay for it, then good for them.  I hope they actually get a return on the amount of money they spend.  

3. Again surprisingly some people don't like Google.  WHT is simply creating another service to increase the value of their Corporate Membership.  If you use it, go for it.  If you don't, whatever you can always just use Google Alerts as a good alternative.  I'm guaranteeing you no-one immediately buys a corporate membership just for the keyword alerts.  However, it might be a nice addition to have instead of going through Google or so and so services and dealing with that.  

3.a. Also don't forget sometimes Google can take a while to crawl a site.  Therefore a WHT Keyword Alert Tool could potentially notify you earlier than Google.  If someone finds that more valuable (since a ton of people are afraid of "Google will Cache this and then my business will be ruined!!!") then it might be more worth it for them.  You need to consider more than just your perspective.  Again, I'm going to be coming off really dickish but this video is incredibly single-sided and there's no volume to it.  

tldr: I dislike the GVH situation as much as the next person.  I also find the Corporate Membership not worth it and also a completely waste of funds.  However, I don't see any problem with WebHostingTalk trying to increase the value of their Corporate Member.  From the customer's side, I wish there was a easy guide and information to keep people from purchasing services from obviously shoddy companies.  However the unique nature of the internet and this industry and no formal system setup make this incredibly difficult.  The best way to protect yourself and others is a good Google Search and look into who you're buying from.  If you got burned by GVH, you should have already been turned away by the amount of threads about GVH.  If you bought a GVH Service anyways even with the threads or simply didn't look and trusted WHT and their Corporate Member tag, well then I have no-one else to blame but the client.  For some people, too cheap of a price is almost irresistible and can't be persuaded against it.  Just like why you should do research on the manufacturer on your new replacement wheel and trust to make sure it's not some cheap off-brand service that will break at critical times.  Some people think too lightly of Web Hosting and if you do then as much as I'd love to help you out, it's not worth my time working for peanuts.  If you want something reliable and ran by someone who's knowledgeable and will be able to take care of the problem quickly then you're going to need to do you research.  

You want bare-bone servers on the cheap with terrible customer support but no reason to really contact support because everything is automated?  Go OVH and their sub-brands.  You want a reliable shared hosting system where you can just "set and forget"?  I can recommend several who are run by staff members I know will be able to answer everything for you without a hitch.  You want to run a gameserver on an unmanaged VPS?  Sure but make sure you know what you're getting into.  Want to just set the gameserver up and forget it?  I think you should move away from unmanaged VPSes and look more into companies that specialize in that sort of things.

And with that... my rant is done.


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## fixidixi (Jun 15, 2015)

please take up the flag and go against all the news websites because they do not relay the facts but a twisted version of the correspondents understanding. all the news readers are affected by those twisted stories and thats harmful. [turning it down] sorry couldnt help myself


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## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

HalfEatenPie said:


> Alright so this entire video is a hot potato and honestly shouldn't be touched with a 12 foot pole.  I only watched through the first 10 minutes of it so if there's anything else to add on or clarified later then let me know.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and give my comments.  Also just to cover my butt and making sure this isn't taken in any misunderstood way, this is my own opinion and does not represent policies or view of vpsB since I do enjoy participating in the community as well as being on staff helping out the community.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the write up, I will respond accordingly and no problem about being dickish I can handle it. There are a few things I disagree with on:

1.a) *They are in my opinion, I think a lot, and everyone knows about them and they play a huge influence in hosts reputations,  They own the market for anything web-hosting related, I cannot find a bigger forum. Although, their forum activity has gone down, I still believe the majority of the hosting industry knows about them.*

1.b.i) "The amount of manpower required to sift through those "Audits" and "application process" can be time consuming. People assume it's incredibly quick and easy since they can do it too from their armchair, however (due to the capacity I bet WHT gets) they'd have to hire a few people full-time to sift through the amount of "crap applications". Don't forget the amount of PMs and messages you get from other individuals who are also demanding your attention on this and that issue and "this person angered me because so and so and should be banned" or "this person said this about me and I find it uncalled for I want you to delete it and their account" (you'd be surprised...). In my opinion, it's simply asking for an increased workload from the WHT team."

*Well, what I would say to this is don't offer the corporate tag then if they cannot handle it. They are getting paid $1,400  a year and if they cannot handle or stay up to date with QA and handling of background information for hosts, they are just deceiving future clients / visitors that are looking for reputable hosts. That's my main point / argument in the whole video really, it's sad if you think about. The regular Joe comes to WHT and finds a thread, sees that, that person has a 'corporate title' and automatically deems trustworthiness and probably doesn't even google them or look up reviews. That's now how the corporate tag is right now with no QA background checks done and it's a false promise.*

2.a) "You're also ignoring the fact that running WHT surprisingly has costs." *That's sounds like their personal problem though and it's offset by their advertisements. Their site is absolutely littered with ads and I'm sure you know from their forum activity (mostly guests/bot views) they generate a lot more than you think. I'm not even going to go into their forum software and how bloated it is.*

*In regards to your google point. That's fair and I accept that view. Just one thing though, I have no doubt in my mind that google crawlers/indexers don't waste a second getting information/keywords off WHT. It's littered with em. And has been for ages. But, I can understand how some people don't like google, and maybe, you know what maybe google alerts does take a long time. It never has for me personally, but I can see your point there and it's 100% valid.*

"The best way to do it is to do a good Google Search and look into who you're buying from."

*Oh, I agree entirely and that's the problem I have with WHT. The average joe doesn't do that, but they rely on just the corporate tag and boom, that's it. As I said in my video when I talked about the Indian web master analogy.  Basically, I said that because I launched one of my Indian friends website for him and before the whole process he told me he was looking on webhostingtalk and linked me a thread (this was a couple years ago), and said he told me he liked this host and I asked.. 'oh why?' he said well, his profile seems professional and he has a 'forum badge'. *

*I said, ohh okay let me check him out, etc then I, personally, did the reviews / background checking. It was for a company called 'StableHost', not sure if you've heard about them, but they turned out great. What if I wasn't there? What if he saw GreenValueHost instead and made the purchase, but, then to find out his website is offline 2 weeks later? That's not fair for the average joe trying to find a host, it's a sham by WHT to mislead viewers into a false promise. It's not 100% WHT's fault, but they play a huge role in it and they need to be held accountable.  *


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

Reply about Pie's comments.... (love you man, so nothing personal)

*Always as a rule of thumb you should probably do some background research on who you're buying from. *

Problem is customers and especially who WHT is attracting these days aren't comprehending things.  English literacy and amount of non English speakers is very common.  Heck, even native English speakers these days are barely surpassing grunting on average and comprehension is in toilet.

Saying customers should do things proactively is what smart folks do.   Average person though, tssk, wishful thinking and re-education.  They choke on that CORPORATE badge and say seems legit.  I can't blame them.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=greenvaluehost+review

Look what Google says.  It's a mixed basket and considering how many arsons committed by GVH on customers you'd logically expect search to be a bloodbath, it isn't.  Some of those sites have glowing reviews.

* The amount of manpower required to sift through those "Audits" and "application process" can be time consuming.  People assume it's incredibly quick and easy since they can do it too from their armchair, however (due to the capacity I bet WHT gets) they'd have to hire a few people full-time to sift through the amount of "crap applications".  Don't forget the amount of PMs and messages you get from other individuals who are also demanding your attention on this and that issue and "this person angered me because so and so and should be banned" or "this person said this about me and I find it uncalled for I want you to delete it and their account" (you'd be surprised...).  In my opinion, it's simply asking for an increased workload from the WHT team. *

This is why these folks should just get out of what they are doing.  I forget how much Penton spent on WHT and how much was attributable to WHT side of things.  It was a metric f-ton.

I'll audit applications and beat the living hell out applicants pulling crap $7.50 per applicant.  $450 corporate membership for quarter more than covers that.  Even if we say $45 cost plenty of fat on that bone for them to pave their place in poshness and pay real wages and live it up.

Why they don't want to do it that they don't want to assume any legal liability for vetting someone and then the company or sole proprietor goes off and does stupid.  But, that's what insurance is for, bonding, etc.   Real companies with STATUS BEARING monikers in the real world = MONEY = baseline vetting.

I've said it hundred or more times, but the age of the standard for hosting being offers shoehorned in forums soft and no biz intelligence is tired and lousy excuse for solution.  

All over the planet, many many decades ago CONSUMER PROTECTION became standard and pursued by civilized nations to protect their citizens from unsavory CORPORATIONS and SNAKE OIL SALESMEN who will do anything to divide people from their money.

Hosting sites need to step it way up and protect the customers or they are going to find themselves with quiet, empty forums populated by just the providers shooting spitballs at each other.   I really think the industry has hit this point years ago though and is broken.  Providers just haven't realized it yet.


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## HalfEatenPie (Jun 15, 2015)

Cool.
 



Dillybob said:


> 1.a) *They are in my opinion, I think a lot, and everyone knows about them and they play a huge influence in hosts reputations,  They own the market for anything web-hosting related, I cannot find a bigger forum. Although, their forum activity has gone down, I still believe the majority of the hosting industry knows about them.*


 
While I agree that WHT is definitely one of the bigger web hosting forums, just because it's the "biggest one" doesn't mean it should be policed in the way you recommend.  They operated a certain way, they grew up operating that specific way, and some how people enjoyed it and the site grew.  Just because the site is much bigger now and they're operating in a specific way doesn't mean they need to change their ways.  If you disagree with it then move to a different site.  I mean after all I left LEB/LET after the entire ColoCrossing shenanigan.  I do read an odd post here and there but overall it's not their problem if you're angry because of "ethics".  Because to iNET, it's just business.  You're expecting a private company to become a public service just because "they're big".
 



Dillybob said:


> *Well, what I would say to this is don't offer the corporate tag then if they cannot handle it. They are getting paid $1,400  a year and if they cannot handle or stay up to date with QA and handling of background information for hosts, they are just deceiving future clients / visitors that are looking for reputable hosts. That's my main point / argument in the whole video really, it's sad if you think about. The regular Joe comes to WHT and finds a thread, sees that, that person has a 'corporate title' and automatically deems trustworthiness and probably doesn't even google them or look up reviews. That's now how the corporate tag is right now with no QA background checks done and it's a false promise.*


What I'm getting at is you're adding in additional "responsibilities" that are clearly not outlined as a service they provide.  An actual informed individual would have probably seen the "Corporate Partner" and seen what is required to become a corporate partner, then find out all you need is to fork over a few hundred dollars every few months.  Maybe iNET could handle it better by being more up-front to new visitors/account creators as to what a corporate partner actually means, but the bottom line is they're not obligated to and at the very end it involves the customer being an informed individual.  

I also think you're giving the "regular Joe" way too little credit.  I mean I know people who are absolutely considered "redneck" and yet will spend hours researching and making sure that their next purchase will be exactly what they need.  

The bottom line is that the medium our industry is in (the internet) provides the uniqueness that almost anyone can become "Super CEO of Marketing Manager Deluxe Corporate".  However, just like in real life, a well calibrated bullshit meter is needed.  Just because there are laws in the US making Pyramid Schemes illegal doesn't stop someone from trying to pull one over you.  Even then the proper government agency will not invest too many resources investigating it unless it hits headlines or if it affects a large amount of individuals.  Best form of defense against this is knowledge.  Don't assume the Average Joe is a Lazy Joe. 
 



Dillybob said:


> *Oh, I agree entirely and that's the problem I have with WHT. The average joe doesn't do that, but they rely on just the corporate tag and boom, that's it. As I said in my video when I talked about the Indian web master analogy.  Basically, I said that because I launched one of my Indian friends website for him and before the whole process he told me he was looking on webhostingtalk and linked me a thread (this was a couple years ago), and said he told me he liked this host and I asked.. 'oh why?' he said well, his profile seems professional and he has a 'forum badge'. *
> 
> *I said, ohh okay let me check him out, etc then I, personally, did the reviews / background checking. It was for a company called 'StableHost', not sure if you've heard about them, but they turned out great. What if I wasn't there? What if he saw GreenValueHost instead and made the purchase, but, then to find out his website is offline 2 weeks later? That's not fair for the average joe trying to find a host, it's a sham by WHT to mislead viewers into a false promise of their corporate tag. It's not 100% WHT's fault, but they play a huge role in it and need to be held accountable.  *


It's a false sense of "Professionalism" that your friend shouldn't have gotten to begin with.  Granted I totally understand if English is his second language, there's nothing we can do to protect every single individual on the internet who speak a vast different variations of languages.  My argument is that demanding WHT take the full costs behind it is kinda ridiculous since in no where does it state that Corporate Partners are reliable.  

A very basic economic analysis (and basic decision making science) is the cost-benefit analysis.  

Private sector wishes the maximize profit.

Public sector (ignoring all the "tinfoil hat" people who say the government is out to get them) wishes to maximize benefit.  

Your entire argument (from my understanding anyways) goes against the basic principles of economics.  Applying to the emotional side of any business is a rare occurrence that is mostly done for marketing points when they dun goofed.  They're not a public service, they're a private entity.  While I agree a service that organizes/manages this (in a totally idealistic way) would be great, in reality I find it incredibly hard to do.  Therefore, I understand you might have your frustrations with WHT, however I don't see this as a major problem.  

*Edit:* @drmike, much love and respect to you as well.  However in my point of view I see no problem with what WHT is doing.  I mean something can/should be done, but I don't see it happening anytime soon and any attempts at a "reform" or basically anything like suggested in the video to be fruitless.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

I welcome the public scrutiny.  Pay to play rackets should always be scrutinized.

I like what vpsB has done to reign in providers and prevent this place from being a spam dumping ground.  Simple rules.  

Drive by spammers won't comply with rules, so their crap never sees day of light.  Those doing bare minimum often self prune or stay in non-verified providers offer area which is only visible to logged in members of vpsBoard, which makes it fairly useless.

WHT would do better to scrap all their verbage about membership and make it straight up PAY TO POST OFFERS.  Want every 7 days = cheap plan.  Want ever 3 days = expensive plan.

No account glitter, nada.   No inferred anything.  No confused viewers... nothing...

That doesn't do the vetting process and all, but if folks don't bring such soon I am going to build it and jump in with a new site to toss this industry sideways.


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## MannDude (Jun 15, 2015)

I'll admit I didn't expect much from the video and wasn't thrilled to see it 18 minutes long... _however_ it was actually put together well and I like talk radio so the sound of an angry man yelling is pleasant to me.

Though regarding the corporate/premium membership, I used to maintain one in the past but it was almost purely for the premium member chat thread. It was mostly pretty lax which is what made it great (but sadly became stricter over time) and there was a good tight knit group of us on there. Over time we migrated our chats and discussions elsewhere_._ Aside from some deals/offers you may see in there from a provider selling off old hardware there wasn't too much going on.

The thing is, the Corporate badge does convince _some _visitors that someone is trustworthy. It shouldn't, but it does. The only real value I see in the badge is the perk of being able to post your offer more times in the same period as non-badge holders. WHT offers is essentially a sea full of providers who are competing with their own damned resellers in the same forums for the same customers. Only difference is that the Corporate provider gets to post what, 3X as many offers in the same time period as the person reselling from them without the badge?

Personally, I think the badges and stickies are more about status. Companies do it not because their advertising/marketing money couldn't be spent better elsewhere (It almost certainly could) but they do it more just to have the highest status they can obtain on a marketplace that they're active in. It's not really uncommon behavior. Some would pay $5,000 for "Platinum Corporate" if it was offered just for the sake of being the "Platinum Corporate member" even if it offered no benefits other than a different badge.

Not to toot my own horn or anything because the system we have in place is far from perfect but it's certainly a step in the proper direction. At least our "Verified Providers" underwent a short application process where we review their WhoIS information, check that they are _legally operating_ by requesting documentation of such and other things. I've also made it known that just because the met the requirements for the "Verified Provider" status that research should be done and that it is _not_ an endorsement from vpsB.

It's actually been on the roadmap since the beginning of this year to get the Provider Database added to The Library to record the public information of providers such as business status, business type, contact details, WhoIS snapshots, links to relevant discussions/reviews/announcements/drama, and have a record of other noteworthy content on each profile. Just a lot of manual data entry and page creation though I will hopefully soon be able to mark it off the whiteboard to-do list.


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## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

I really have no other arguments, I respect HalfEatenPie's views but I think you know a lot more than me in terms of the marketing sector and business side of things so I'm just going to gracefully step down .

Nothing wrong with you, or this board, just... I accept defeat. It most likely is more of a emotional thing with me, maybe it's just more anecdotal than others. (Your redneck experience vs my Indian friend experience). And you're right, they are a private entity and not a public service so in reality, they really can do whatever the fuck they want. I just want my video to WARN other hosts that these benefits (and they will take them for what they are worth) are not worth it whatsoever, except for the ad-posting time interval one from 7 days to 3.  I still believe all the other benefits are horseshit and I'm very firm on that belief. I do accept your argument about they are a private entity though, that does make a lot sense now.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

MannDude said:


> I'll admit I didn't expect much from the video and wasn't thrilled to see it 18 minutes long... _however_ it was actually put together well and I like talk radio so the sound of an angry man yelling is pleasant to me.
> 
> Though regarding the corporate/premium membership, I used to maintain one in the past but it was almost purely for the premium member chat thread. It was mostly pretty lax which is what made it great (but sadly became stricter over time) and there was a good tight knit group of us on there. Over time we migrated our chats and discussions elsewhere_._ Aside from some deals/offers you may see in there from a provider selling off old hardware there wasn't too much going on.
> 
> ...


That's exactly why I made the video. You nailed it right on the head! opcorn:  opcorn:   'It shouldn't, but it does'. Keyword is: 'it does'. Which is just so, so sad how WHT has influenced that. (Even though, no disrespect to HalfEatenPie, I know it's a private entity, but the fact of the matter is the tile does play a negative impact on average joe's finding hosts).  That's where HalfEatenPie is talking about how it's more of a emotional problem than an economic one, which he right really. Why should we give a flying toot about the average joe? Well, I guess just out of sheer compassion I guess because I was there at that point when I was younger? I don't know.  My video is more geared towards how the benefits are garbage, but, I did talk about this towards the end of it so I totally understand where HalfEatenPie is coming from.


----------



## MartinD (Jun 15, 2015)

MannDude said:


> .... so the sound of an angry man yelling is pleasant to me.


Just remember you said that..!


----------



## HalfEatenPie (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> That's exactly why I made the video. You nailed it right on the head! opcorn:  opcorn:   'It shouldn't, but it does'. Keyword is: 'it does'. Which is just so, so sad how WHT has influenced that. (Even though, no disrespect to HalfEatenPie, I know it's a private entity, but the fact of the matter is the tile does play a negative impact on average joe's finding hosts).  That's where HalfEatenPie is talking about how it's more of a emotional problem than an economic one, which he right really. Why should we give a flying toot about the average joe? Well, I guess just out of sheer compassion I guess because I was there at that point when I was younger? I don't know.  My video is more geared towards how the benefits are garbage, but, I did talk about this towards the end of it so I totally understand where HalfEatenPie is coming from.


Yeah I mean it's definitely an emotional issue for many people that's for sure.  Just as a business-wise I didn't see a problem with it. 

I'm also equivalent to a crotchety old grandpa so it's my own deconstruction.  You're more than free to toot your own horn as much as you want, I'm simply here to bitch about things.  

I'm also really glad it was really civilized!


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

HalfEatenPie said:


> Yeah I mean it's definitely an emotional issue for many people that's for sure.  Just as a business-wise I didn't see a problem with it.
> 
> I'm also equivalent to a crotchety old grandpa so it's my own deconstruction.  You're more than free to toot your own horn as much as you want, I'm simply here to bitch about things.
> 
> I'm also really glad it was really civilized!


I'd say it works pretty damn good, you made some very convincing arguments that really made think and quite frankly, not a lot of people can do that to me . I'm very, VERY egotistical, but show a dash of humbleness when stumped or questioned about my beliefs.


----------



## KuJoe (Jun 15, 2015)

So the corruption at LET/LEB doesn't get it's own video? You think the Corporate badge thing is ruining the industry? That's nothing compared to the other practices going on. No offense but you're complaining about the wrong forum and worse yet, you're supporting a company that has resulted in thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars in actual theft. I suggest you do your research about this industry before making a video about what you think is ruining it.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

KuJoe said:


> So the corruption at LET/LEB doesn't get it's own video?


You have the honors... let me know when it's up.  opcorn:


----------



## Criot (Jun 15, 2015)

I find there is still some interesting content on WHT despite the offers and posts which are solely intended to promote the users signature, that's certainly annoying, a thread full of different people posting the exact same thing isn't exactly helpful.


----------



## zed (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> WHT has zero respect for new visitors and I explain it all in my video. Rendering it will take a while it's 18 minutes long.
> 
> 
> I went through each Corporate Membership benefit and absolutely destroyed how each one is literally worthless, they are in for a treat.
> ...


18 minutes of babbling about WHT, are you serious? Show me on this doll where WHT touched you.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

zed said:


> 18 minutes of babbling about WHT, are you serious? Show me on this doll where WHT touched you.


Show me on this doll where WHT hasn't had an impact on the general hosting industry by misleading people with it's corporate false promise tiles. Not only that, but gratis corporate memberships aloft. The place is an absolute cesspool and will continue to die slowly and slowly per year, just like the graphs from 2013, 2014 prove.

I'd say only about 5 minutes were babbling, unless, ofcourse you honestly believe their corporate benefits are worth something of value besides the ad decreasing post time one. Because you know, having your webhosting company listed on HostingCatalog.com is of great value.  :lol:


----------



## Hxxx (Jun 15, 2015)

WHT is a business, is not a community. I dont see anything bad with corporate badges or the super expensive stickies. Again, is a business, nobody is pointing a gun at you, telling that you have to buy from them. Ive seen many hosts during the years, being success and are not corporate members NOR pay stickies.


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 15, 2015)

KuJoe said:


> You think the Corporate badge thing is ruining the industry? That's nothing compared to the other practices going on.


WHT and LET are minor problems compared to the thing that has really made the webhosting industry a minefield for customers over the past 10-15 years:  the introduction of  "host in a box" automation tools like CPanel/SolusVM, etc that made it possible for thousands of technically incompetent idiots  to setup hosting "businesses" funded by their allowances and call themselves "CEO" and sucker the unsuspecting into giving their new "businesses" money.  

Reading WHT and LET it doesn't take long to discover that a very sizable percentages of hosts posting on those forums don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to technical knowledge, business knowledge, or anything else it takes to build a sustainable business, and "hosting in a box" automation tools (not a WHT corporate badge or having LET's owner as your childhood friend) are 100% to blame for the fact that these "providers" decided to setup a hosting business rather than be normal children and get a paper route or open a lemonade stand.   



> WebHostingTalk  CPANEL/SOLUSVM/ Worst of the Hosting Industry!!! DIE, DIE, DIE, HOST IN A BOX AUTOMATION TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fixed that for you.


----------



## joepie91 (Jun 15, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> WHT is a business, is not a community.


Then perhaps it should start representing itself as such.

I'm a little tired of these "it's a business, nothing wrong with that" type of arguments, frankly. Something being a business or not has absolutely _no relevance whatsoever_ when the discussion is about the ethics of certain behaviour.

The stickies are dubiously organized at best, the badges are plain misleading - and nothing is really being done to correct this misleading impression. Informed complacency makes guilty. WHT is absolutely behaving unethically, and whether it is a business or not is irrelevant.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

joepie91 said:


> Then perhaps it should start representing itself as such.
> 
> I'm a little tired of these "it's a business, nothing wrong with that" type of arguments, frankly. Something being a business or not has absolutely _no relevance whatsoever_ when the discussion is about the ethics of certain behaviour.
> 
> The stickies are dubiously organized at best, the badges are plain misleading - and nothing is really being done to correct this misleading impression. Informed complacency makes guilty. WHT is absolutely behaving unethically, and whether it is a business or not is irrelevant.


..Fuck. Why did I have to make a video, you summed up everything I stand for in my 18 min video and I probably still didn't get it as concise as you! 

Edit: I'm off to bed though.. so tired of all this WHT stuff (even though I love it, I can only despise the company/site so much before I get bored and tired) will be back tomorrow ~


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 15, 2015)

> Why they don't want to do it that they don't want to assume any legal liability for vetting someone and then the company or sole proprietor goes off and does stupid.  But, that's what insurance is for, bonding, etc.   Real companies with STATUS BEARING monikers in the real world = MONEY = baseline vetting.


The BBB has managed to avoid legal liability for years for its claims that "BBB accredited" businesses  with A ratings are properly vetted and trustworthy when in reality all it means is the business coughed up the annual fee to buy accredited status...remember CVPS's A rating when it was paying dues or better yet the A- rating that was given by the BBB to Hamas.  The BBB is probably the worst offender out there of instilling false confidence in consumers with its trust badges (especially since many consumers mistakenly think the BBB is a government agency or mistakenly think it has legal authority to go after offenders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo8kfV9kONw


----------



## sleddog (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> I get bored and tired


I'm bored and tired of these "WARNING!" "UNETHICAL!" "SCAM!" etc. threads.

An 18 minute video about WHT practices is just out to lunch. Likewise, all these GVH threads are just senseless. Neither accomplishes anything useful. All this endless "investigation" and "exposure" of this and that company's practices accomplish nothing, except give a voice to the pissed off people of the world. It's just tiresome.

If you don't like WHT, don't go there. If you have a vision for something better, then build it.


----------



## joepie91 (Jun 15, 2015)

sleddog said:


> If you have a vision for something better, then build it.


Which doesn't necessarily solve the problem of people getting scammed on WHT.


----------



## WSWD (Jun 15, 2015)

I realize they can do whatever they want with the badges and call them whatever they like.  The problem is that they are incredibly misleading.  A "Corporate Member" should be a legitimate corporation, or business, just like the "Verified Provider" status is here...especially when those folks are advertising products for sale, and WHT knows that folks come to their site looking to purchase products.

They should also ban folks who engage in questionable business practices (or at least take away their signatures and advertising ability)  There are PLENTY of companies who do it, and WHT has been presented with the evidence many times...outright scams in fact, where providers fail to deliver a product and hide behind their "No Refunds" policies.  I had that exact thing happen twice in fact, and WHT didn't give a shit.  It was with 2 companies that did that exact same thing over and over and over again.  But they pay their $1400/mo. and stickies I'm sure, and thus nothing happens to them.

I don't expect WHT to police the hosting industry, but I do expect them to regulate the folks who advertise on their site.  There is plenty of case law, for example, where newspapers, television stations, radio stations, websites, have been held liable for allowing companies who are known scammers, false advertisers, etc., to advertise on their media.  WHT has been put on notice so many times regarding the same thing, and same companies, that they are almost certainly opening themselves up for potential litigation. 

But litigation aside, anyone with an ounce of ethics would seek to drive the scammers and questionable folks from their websites...unless of course those folks are paying you tons of money and paying your bills.     This is why I know the moderators are being told by the Penton folks (or iNet, formerly) to generally keep their hands off of the corporate members.  Bear and friends can keep coming up with all the bullshit excuses they like, but it's obvious what's going on here.  If, by some tiny chance, the moderators are telling the truth, and they are not being given direction from Penton (which would be amazing that the owners of the company would give a completely hands-off discretion to these folks to run their business assets), Penton should be notified what's going on, and heads should roll.  The entire moderator staff should be wiped out.  If I was in charge of Penton and found out even 1/4 of the stuff that goes on over there, the whole lot of them would be looking for moderator jobs elsewhere.


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## raindog308 (Jun 15, 2015)

MannDude said:


> the sound of an angry man yelling is pleasant to me.


I made a note to send you some drill instructor porn for Christmas.

(Well, I assume it exists...I don't actually have any and am somewhat afraid to google for it.)


----------



## MannDude (Jun 15, 2015)

raindog308 said:


> I made a note to send you some drill instructor porn for Christmas.
> 
> (Well, I assume it exists...I don't actually have any and am somewhat afraid to google for it.)


LOL. It was bad wording on my behalf.

Just meant to say that some angry guy shouting is something I hear often on talk radio so I was accustomed to it.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 15, 2015)

sleddog said:


> I'm bored and tired of these "WARNING!" "UNETHICAL!" "SCAM!" etc. threads.
> 
> An 18 minute video about WHT practices is just out to lunch. Likewise, all these GVH threads are just senseless. Neither accomplishes anything useful. All this endless "investigation" and "exposure" of this and that company's practices accomplish nothing, except give a voice to the pissed off people of the world. It's just tiresome.
> 
> If you don't like WHT, don't go there. If you have a vision for something better, then build it.



Because the end-customer is always wrong and are not allowed to voice their opinion, right? You have it wrong... Truth of the matter is look at the screenshots of forum activity from 2013, and 2014 compared to now. There is a reason why it's becoming lesser and lesser. Since you care so much for about WHT you should be regularly posting on their forums telling them they need to do BI & QA checks on all corporate titles, otherwise, you're just as bad as them and you like to mislead the public. They are doing a disservice to the hosting industry and if you just want to sit back and let them do that, I pity you.

"If you don't like WHT, don't go there. If you have a vision for something better, then build it."

That's about the same as starting up a new site to compete with Amazon, or Google. It will never happen. WHT owns that market. VPSBoard is about the closest we can get and they are doing a pretty damn good job, far better than what I could of built. Take that as an example, it would be pointless to start another one up.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

WSWD said:


> If, by some tiny chance, the moderators are telling the truth, and they are not being given direction from Penton (which would be amazing that the owners of the company would give a completely hands-off discretion to these folks to run their business assets), Penton should be notified what's going on, and heads should roll.  The entire moderator staff should be wiped out.  If I was in charge of Penton and found out even 1/4 of the stuff that goes on over there, the whole lot of them would be looking for moderator jobs elsewhere.


I took this as inspiration and what others have been saying for a long time and did the necessary. WHT has been directly made aware of the freebie account code use *BY ME*.  Anyone that doesn't like it can line up for a damn punting.   Zero fncks given.   Hopefully stupids get demoted and shuffle their ass elsewhere and WHT rescues self respect and image and this helps.

iNet/Penton is trying to track the code down and get to the bottom of what is going on.   Some noise brands were using the code.  No clue why such code existed or if some loophole entirely.

If they prune abusers on code basis some big name noise brands are getting slapped on WHT and will send clear signal to me that clear division between moderators on WHT and the corporate money folks with account info.  What I am saying is to me this will verify the legitimacy of mods claims that they aren't caring about status bought via membership.   I am hoping it pans out for them and prunes fools.

Mods I ride see saws with.  Moderation is a thankless job.  Impossible to please everyone.  I am hyper critical of wall paint drying let alone human intentions. Love people, hate human behavior.


----------



## TheLinuxBug (Jun 15, 2015)

See, I have a slightly different view point on this. Let these companies pay whatever they want and post etc, however, my complaint is the fact that there is no way to comment on an offer to let others know about its validity or if there is a scam.  There have been many occasions where these corporate badge members have posted misleading advertisements or even old outdated advertisements (for products they don't even sell anymore) and if you decide to make a comment on the thread to let others know this fact 9 times out of 10 the comment is removed and you are reprimanded for the comment. This alone was enough reason for me to stop participating on WHT.  It is pretty insulting  when you take the time to inform the buyer of possible issues or inaccuracies and then the staff doesn't even give a care and removes your post and things move along like nothing happened.  This is the biggest scam in my opinion, people should be able to leave their opinions and point out issues without risk of having it removed because they are a corporate member and WHT staff could care less if the end user gets screwed in the end.  Just as long as they get their membership payments they seem to be happy with cleaning house of any negative feedback.

@Dillybob had some good points, but really what it comes down to is you need to understand that WHT is a business.  This was my biggest complaint about LET when it became known that CC had purchased it, it went from being a not-for-profit community of intelligent people in the technology field to being a full out advertising shit hole where it became, "How cheap can we offer X"  instead of "How can we best use the resources we have available."  This pushed out a lot of the people that used to actually post quality topics and cared about the VPS community on LET.  Honestly, LET is just as bad as WHT now, if not worse in the long run (you just don't see them as the mods tend to do it quietly behind the scenes).  The fact is they will censor anything they don't agree with and they have no problems with CC shills running around on the site as well as helping out shit companies like GVH stay in business to keep promoting their brand.  The only difference here is that CC doesn't want your money for membership because if they took your money they would have to actually clean up their act and start acting at least semi-ethically (CC having ethics and morals is it's self a joke and will likely never happen). At least WHT tries to be fair to the consumer in most cases, CC just outright lies to your face and stabs you in the back when you turn around.  While WHT may be no walk in the park I still think its light years better than LET from the standpoint of ethics and morality (I am not saying they are ethical or moral about what they do, only that they are by leaps and bounds better than ColoCrossing).

Don't get me wrong, a lot of the points made were good ones, and if it weren't a business running WHT I would get right on that soap box right next to you.  As long as it is a business and is about money - the customer is always going to be king and they will always expect to get what they pay for, even if that means it results in some semi-shady practices.

my 2 cents.

Cheers!


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 15, 2015)

> This was my biggest complaint about LET


My biggest complaint about LET/LEB at the moment is that LowEndBox is featuring a provider on its front page, e6l.su,  who is using a nulled WHMCS.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2015)

TheLinuxBug said:


> See, I have a slightly different view point on this. Let these companies pay whatever they want and post etc, however, my complaint is the fact that there is no way to comment on an offer to let others know about its validity or if there is a scam.  There have been many occasions where these corporate badge members have posted misleading advertisements or even old outdated advertisements (for products they don't even sell anymore) and if you decide to make a comment on the thread to let others know this fact 9 times out of 10 the comment is removed and you are reprimanded for the comment. This alone was enough reason for me to stop participating on WHT.  It is pretty insulting  when you take the time to inform the buyer of possible issues or inaccuracies and then the staff doesn't even give a care and removes your post and things move along like nothing happened.


Been there and done this multiple times  What you expect anything less from me. I'd slap a nun for lying in public.  I agree it's highly problematic.  The holy altar of offers is garbage.  If brands are doing crap then customers should see that upside their commercial.



TheLinuxBug said:


> *CC just outright lies to your face and stabs you in the back when you turn around.  While WHT may be no walk in the park I still think its light years better than LET from the standpoint of ethics and morality (I am not saying they are ethical or moral about what they do, only that they are by leaps and bounds better than ColoCrossing).*


Amen to that! I am glad @TheLinuxBug remembers the trail of sorrows that LET became for many who participated there pre-hostile takeover.



DomainBop said:


> My biggest complaint about LET/LEB at the moment is that LowEndBox is featuring a provider on its front page, e6l.su,  who is using a nulled WHMCS.


What? True? Paste the data here in public... So everyone can see, please.


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 15, 2015)

drmike said:


> What? True? Paste the data here in public... So everyone can see, please.


----------



## sleddog (Jun 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Since you care so much for about WHT you should be regularly posting on their forums telling them they need to do BI & QA checks on all corporate titles, otherwise, you're just as bad as them and you like to mislead the public.


Unbelievable. Do you slander everyone who disagrees with you?


----------



## Coastercraze (Jun 16, 2015)

Might be just me, but I thought DP's staff were harsher than WHT's. That was many years ago though.

As for the corporate badge, I wasn't a fan of it, but I do know why WHT did that on a marketing perspective. Sounds a lot better than say a Platinum Member badge I guess.


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## drmike (Jun 16, 2015)

DomainBop said:


>


Nothing like having LizardSquad vouch for your services:

https://twitter.com/lizardlands/status/587211112711618560

OH LEB, how ye fails.


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 16, 2015)

drmike said:


> Nothing like having LizardSquad vouch for your services:
> 
> https://twitter.com/lizardlands/status/587211112711618560
> 
> OH LEB, how ye fails.


 It gets better: enter the LizardStresser botnet for hire connection 



> Lizard Squad finished the final days of 2014 by releasing their buy-a-DDoS tool available for purchase at lizardstresser.su. For a small fee anyone can purchase Lizard Squad’s botnet for inflicting mayhem...
> 
> The domain lizardstresser.su was purchased on December 26, 2014 by the email address [email protected] domain search for this email finds that email address also registered 15 other domains which are listed below:
> 
> ...


full article: https://www.recordedfuture.com/lizard-squad-analysis/


----------



## HN-Matt (Jun 22, 2015)

lmao http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/1129146/#Comment_1129146
 

 
@Onra Host calm down m8


----------



## Hxxx (Jun 22, 2015)

lol that was fun.

Though dillybob the wht hater need to take a break, nobody cares about his opinion anyway.  Dillybob if you have a beef with wht, just get a lawyer and sue them, lets do things in the correct way


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## Dillybob (Jun 22, 2015)

sleddog said:


> Unbelievable. Do you slander everyone who disagrees with you?


Little late to the party, but please show me where I 'slandered' someone in that quote, thanks. (Hint: You might want to re-read the definition first before replying back).


----------



## HBAndrei (Jun 22, 2015)

Dillybob, you're everywhere! 

( and this thread is also everywhere  )


----------



## drmike (Jun 23, 2015)

As far as OnraHost goes:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1405098

I am meh about their claims of profitability with WHT stickies. Owned hardware or not....  They are pushing small few dollar transactions.  Unsure what the sticky costs in Reseller category currently but talking about quite a few sustained purchases to even break even.



> "Michael told us that support is available 24/7/365. He also claims that each server node contains only 20 VM’s at the most."


- from their recent LEB offer.

20 x $4 a month for Xen 512MB = $80 income on a server.  Yeah that's sustainable even if you own your own equipment... not.

Onra has a sticky for reseller hosting that smells like GVH offers - throwing everything in the universe in the offer.  But oddly, is not a Premium or Corporate member. (strange new world of WHT? maybe...)

Not saying Onra runs a bad show or anything, but, numbers are numbers.  Markets are markets and the buyers are pretty darn predictable on what most buy and why they buy.


----------



## HN-Matt (Jun 23, 2015)

> As I set here and tell you the " **real benefit **" is that it makes US web hosts a lot of money. Simple point to it. The real benefit is simply to make us money, and it does that job 100%. End of story.
> 
> 
> Memberships and sticky aren't there for you, they aren't for John Doe who buys VPS's and shared web hosting. They are soley for US WEB HOSTS and for US to make money $$$$$. It's how the world works. I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of money, advertising, and business...I really am. But you need to stop talking on things you know 100% nothing about.


hahahaha absolutely atrocious. Douchebag American Exceptionalism at its worst and most unwittingly self-parodic best! LET is really going down the shitter lately, reads like a predictable congregation of dbags in almost every thread now. Bunch of middle aged men ganging up on people and circle jerking with their lil lapdogs 'Thanking' their posts at climax, hilarious.


----------



## drmike (Jun 23, 2015)

HN-Matt said:


> hahahaha absolutely atrocious. Douchebag American Exceptionalism at its worst and most unwittingly self-parodic best! LET is really going down the shitter lately, reads like a predictable congregation of dbags in almost every thread now. Bunch of middle aged men ganging up on people and circle jerking with their lil lapdogs 'Thanking' their posts at climax, hilarious.


Who wrote this real benefit piece part @HN-Matt?


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 23, 2015)

drmike said:


> As far as OnraHost goes:
> 
> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1405098
> 
> ...


As I said before in my LET topic replying to that raging extremist: He is clouded by the amount of money he has invested into WHT to see the light out of his own ideology views. He is basically stuck in WHT ideology land. He hasn't even argued back countering 1 benefit and why it's actually *beneficial*, but instead keeps on attacking my personal character (Ad-Hom) which gets him nowhere. And he talks about sticky threads and how they are SO beneficial for his hosting company which isn't even a corporate benefit....   :lol: 

And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!

I'm positive we'll start getting WHT horror stories here soon  Don't be scared to speak up about it (if you're an ex-WHT member and you see this thread!)

Edit: The sad thing is, you cannot really blame him. WHT does a decent job at manipulating hosts, and even their philosophical views.


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## drmike (Jun 23, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!
> 
> 
> I'm positive we'll start getting WHT horror stories here soon  Don't be scared to speak up about it (if you're an ex-WHT member and you see this thread!)
> ...


Again, at last glance, I don't think he's even a paid member.  Guess I didn't realize that anyone can advertise and buy stickies without membership.  Quite a unique little mess in my mind.

ROI could be there, but talking about tons o' sales a month.   Cheap sells and most of what I glanced was retarded cheap ala lowend pricing on his stuff.  Later when I get some time I'll rip offers apart and post numbers....  I am spent this shift


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## raindog308 (Jun 23, 2015)

drmike said:


> Unsure what the sticky costs in Reseller category currently but talking about quite a few sustained purchases to even break even.


My data is a year old or so but in 2014 it was $150 in Reseller and $200 in shared hosting.  $600 for VPS and $1000 for dedicated.

And those are weekly rates.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7993889/forum/1%20WHT%20Pricing%20Doc%20%2811%29.doc


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## drmike (Jun 23, 2015)

From the horse's mouth, served from their site directly 






Looks like same pricing though 

Taken from: http://mediakit.inetinteractive.com/hosting-cloud/classified-advertising/?utm_source=wht-ad-page&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=text-link


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## Dillybob (Jun 23, 2015)

raindog308 said:


> My data is a year old or so but in 2014 it was $150 in Reseller and $200 in shared hosting.  $600 for VPS and $1000 for dedicated.
> 
> 
> And those are weekly rates.
> ...


Thanks for this.



drmike said:


> Again, at last glance, I don't think he's even a paid member.  Guess I didn't realize that anyone can advertise and buy stickies without membership.  Quite a unique little mess in my mind.
> 
> 
> ROI could be there, but talking about tons o' sales a month.   Cheap sells and most of what I glanced was retarded cheap ala lowend pricing on his stuff.  Later when I get some time I'll rip offers apart and post numbers....  I am spent this shift


Hmm. I'm assuming the sticky threads in the dedicated forum would be $995 a week, and then $600 on top of that if you're a host offering Dedicated and VPS. You're looking at around $1595 (this is not including shared hosting or other sticky additives) *a week.*

That seems to me, like your company better be pushing some high  margins...


----------



## DomainBop (Jun 23, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> Hmm. I'm assuming the sticky threads in the dedicated forum would be $995 a week, and then $600 on top of that if you're a host offering Dedicated and VPS. You're looking at around $1595 (this is not including shared hosting or other sticky additives) *a week.*
> 
> That seems to me, like your company better be pushing some high  margins...


The big question for providers, which is unanswered by just looking at the prices on the WHT ad rates sheet, is how the ROI for WHT advertising spending compares to the ROI for alternatives like Google Adwords (which has been decreasing for years for advertisers in every category), Facebook, other industry forums, etc.


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## Dillybob (Jun 23, 2015)

DomainBop said:


> The big question for providers, which is unanswered by just looking at the prices on the WHT ad rates sheet, is how the ROI for WHT advertising spending compares to the ROI alternatives like Google Adwords (which has been decreasing for years for advertisers in every category), etc.


Yeah, good point. I could see the ROI be higher as a provider if they only spends $995 for that sticky thread, but if they can get just 5 people to sign up with a dedicated server of *atleast* $60 a month...  In 1 year that would generate $3600 in revenue. So now that I think of it, it might be worth it by doing it every NOW and then.

Good point and thanks for not resorting to ad hom attacks.  Very good point now that I think of it. Although, these numbers  are just thrown up from my ass, and I'm sure there are numerous other factors that go into it.  (Does that user actually sign up for that dedicated server for a year?, How many actually sign up? Profit Margins? Paying the DC, (maybe even royalties), taxes, etc) Basically all the provider's business expenses need to be taken into consideration before we can justify if the ROI via WHT is good or bad.   And yeah, you are persuading me quite good, not going to lie. Still not convinced yet though.


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## gordonrp (Jun 23, 2015)

DillyBob,

WHT is a business.

Regards,


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 23, 2015)

gordonrp said:


> DillyBob,
> 
> WHT is a business.
> 
> Regards,



A business that misleads it's visitors by offering corporate member titles that are not checked for quality insurance. Especially when they are hosts that *are advertising a service* *within  WHT*. That's not a business, that's called fraud. Regardless if it's a public service or private entity.


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## zed (Jun 24, 2015)

I completely missed where they made claims you proved fraudulent, was that bit in the video?

(not a lawyer, not even an internet lawyer)


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## Dillybob (Jun 24, 2015)

zed said:


> I completely missed where they made claims you proved fraudulent, was that bit in the video?
> 
> (not a lawyer, not even an internet lawyer)


GreenValueHost was just one example. Looks like they took cared of them after they had their run misleading thousands.


----------



## HN-Matt (Jun 26, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> I just really want to warn hosts that are thinking of the benefits, they are worthless.  I explained each individual benefit in my video and gave reasons why.





drmike said:


> Corporate membership is legit (it exists and many people pay that crazy high $1800 annual amount) and it's overpriced vs. benefits and so called features.





drmike said:


> There are benefits to membership  ?





HalfEatenPie said:


> A very basic economic analysis (and basic decision making science) is the cost-benefit analysis. Private sector wishes the maximize profit. Public sector (ignoring all the "tinfoil hat" people who say the government is out to get them) wishes to maximize benefit. Some would pay $5,000 for "Platinum Corporate" if it was offered just for the sake of being the "Platinum Corporate member" even if it offered no benefits other than a different badge.





Dillybob said:


> I just want my video to WARN other hosts that these benefits (and they will take them for what they are worth) are not worth it whatsoever, except for the ad-posting time interval one from 7 days to 3.  I still believe all the other benefits are horseshit and I'm very firm on that belief.





Dillybob said:


> My video is more geared towards how the benefits are garbage, but, I did talk about this towards the end of it so I totally understand where HalfEatenPie is coming from.





Dillybob said:


> I'd say only about 5 minutes were babbling, unless, ofcourse you honestly believe their corporate benefits are worth something of value besides the ad decreasing post time one.





Dillybob said:


> As I said before in my LET topic replying to that raging extremist: He is clouded by the amount of money he has invested into WHT to see the light out of his own ideology views. He is basically stuck in WHT ideology land. He hasn't even argued back countering 1 benefit and why it's actually *beneficial*, but instead keeps on attacking my personal character (Ad-Hom) which gets him nowhere. And he talks about sticky threads and how they are SO beneficial for his hosting company which isn't even a corporate benefit....   :lol:


Hrm, after careful analysis it seems that WHT's corporate membership badges are actually *not beneficial* and, in fact, do not provide any benefits *at all*. I was on the verge of upgrading my account, but after reading this thread have chosen not to. Thank you.


----------



## host4go (Jun 26, 2015)

Well written but I think you should consider the following.


If the average hosting customer buying process was the one you described as the one it should be, to the point that you believe that who doesn't follow that process are to blame for being "tricked" into buying hosting for less serious hosting companies, then, WHT corporate account value would drop to almost nothing.


WHT make an effort for the forum visitors to look at Corporate account holders differently. WHT do want buyers to believe Corporate accounts are the "[serious ones". Should we expect differently? No. WHT is a business.


You say checking a company takes time and requires staff. True.


But if SSL companies can do it for 400$ I am pretty sure WHT can do it for 1400$.


It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Have you ever gone thru a similar process?


----------



## HBAndrei (Jun 26, 2015)

I've said this before on LET, if WHT were to vet corp members as you guys want it to (aka company check), then GVH would have passed with flying colors, because as far as I know they are a legit registered company... are they not?

So this means other type of vetting, what would that be? based on the amount of clients complain regarding your company? based on your company's quality? I think it's all too subjective for anyone to be the judge of that.

PS: I'm not taking sides here, my questions are genuine, I want to know everyone's input on the matter.


----------



## Tyler (Jun 26, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!


For a while I had a physical copy of this "guide" on my desk - it's 10 pages of the WHT kool-aid, explaining how keyword alerts work, something about the badge, and some other useless stuff. It's light on information and heavy on the word count.


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## Tyler (Jun 26, 2015)

Playing devil's advocate (I actually agree with the points you mentioned)



host4go said:


> You say checking a company takes time and requires staff. True.
> But if SSL companies can do it for 400$ I am pretty sure WHT can do it for 1400$.
> 
> It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Have you ever gone thru a similar process?


Being a discussion forum is WHT's main business. Their operations include creating new content, moderation, and driving new users to their site. These SSL companies have SSLs as their main business, where operations include vetting EV requesters and providing support. In other words, vetting these people is a significant part of their business operations and they've likely streamlined a process for it.

On the other hand, the question remains: why can WHT not dedicate a few people to the vetting process? Part of their moderation style takes on significant vetting and research regardless... I am not sure why it cannot be tied in.


----------



## host4go (Jun 26, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Playing devil's advocate (I actually agree with the points you mentioned)
> 
> 
> Being a discussion forum is WHT's main business. Their operations include creating new content, moderation, and driving new users to their site. These SSL companies have SSLs as their main business, where operations include vetting EV requesters and providing support. In other words, vetting these people is a significant part of their business operations and they've likely streamlined a process for it.
> ...


WHT does not create content, they rely on their users to create content that in turn will attract other users.


If you complain, and some have (check the topic about corporate account prices going up), WHT moderators will reply to you that if you are not happy then you should be the one creating content for WHT, after all you are complaining about the lack of it.


Surprising reply? Yes! But true.


Setting up a process to verify businesses is easy. Too much really.


WHT just haves 0 interest in turning sales away for the sake of their "community"


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## Tyler (Jun 26, 2015)

host4go said:


> WHT does not create content, they rely on their users to create content that in turn will attract other users.


WHT & associated parties do create content. Here is a short list of places that they do create content on:


http://thewhir.com/

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/blog/
SoftWareRevue's Email List
Keeping users engaged in a forum is not as simple as setting it and forgetting it. There is a lot of work behind the scenes that goes on.


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## drmike (Jun 26, 2015)

host4go said:


> Well written but I think you should consider the following.
> 
> 
> If the average hosting customer buying process was the one you described as the one it should be, to the point that you believe that who doesn't follow that process are to blame for being "tricked" into buying hosting for less serious hosting companies, then, WHT corporate account value would drop to almost nothing.
> ...


A business has the legal and moral obligation to protect consumers.  Even one who claims to be a neutral publisher, non caring conduit or mall landlord. Those who don't eventually get federal government attention and beaten royally for running a fraud dumping ground.

As-is, what WHT mainly is = a non stop toilet roll of OFFERs.  These offers, mainly for hosting, are littered with companies who aren't serious, aren't going to good by customers, etc.  It's made worse by the super low barrier of entry which has guys spinning up shell companies to make offers on there for less than $100 plus a cup of time to populate their account for offer posting privileges.

Guys shell co all over WHT all day long.  I see guys with many brands and unrelated otherwise.  I see foreign brands ala reseller nested idiot claiming to be USA this and that but the formatting of the address is all messed up and total clues to me about it being shade tree operation.

All of this drives up the need for WHT to be murderously harsh about multiple accounts and other matters to filter the gene pool a bit to cut down on level of stupid.

Some guys have determined that the whole paid account is a surefire way to dupe customers into trust scenario.  It obviously works for the membership side and even that was recently scammed by a bunch of hosts with stolen account upgrades.  Paid accounts should meet some criteria.  If it is hard for a just started shop to meet the level of the bar, then oh damn well.  Sure big USA mega hosts will pass whatever test with flying colors as they are: 1. incorporated  2. have actual phone number  3. are credit worthy (usually)  4. have employees   5. have legitimate office space  6. probably registered with the BBB, etc.   

Why should there be a barrier to new hosts?  Because most businesses fail within the first year and these business are very often these days about unsustainable pricing to grab marketshare, a practice that just doesn't tend to pan out resulting in mass failures.

WHT knows they should be doing better on account vetting. Corporate almost certainly doesn't want the liability matter either side.

As is, they should just do away with memberships, and make every offer a fixed fee to post.  $5-20 per offer.   Plus define the offers and must include details better.  Cause big picture, that's all the memberships are about for most guys.  Crafting fake benefits is pretty tired and obvious.


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## drmike (Jun 26, 2015)

Tyler said:


> WHT & associated parties do create content. Here is a short list of places that they do create content on:
> 
> 
> http://thewhir.com/
> ...



Well the new owner Penton is way more about content.   Go to their site and see the emphasis on content and specifically optimizing content.   The place is a content farming operation with tons of analytical folks at desks crunching numbers.   When Penton finally addresses WHT assets, I have nagging suspicion that lots of changes are going to happen.


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## host4go (Jun 26, 2015)

Tyler said:


> WHT & associated parties do create content. Here is a short list of places that they do create content on:
> 
> 
> http://thewhir.com/
> ...



Those are not directed at the "hosting customers". Thus not attracting the kind of user WHT customers (Premium and Corporate account owners) are looking for.

WHT forum, needs content for the forum,. ya know, the kind of content that will make the average joe go into their forum in hordes. Not a trend that I am seeing going on there.

EDIT - What work is WHT doing that I am missing? please dont make me dig for the topic I mentioned where WHT moderators told a WHT member to create content himself and not expect WHT to do it.

Just so you know where I am comming from, Nowadays I couldn't care less about WHT. Starting this year I mostly use it for promoting servives. While before I was an active member, contributing member to the "community".

So what put me off? simple really. The moderators.

I had a few incidents. The 2 most recent being.

- Some poor lad had issue with Site5, Site5 CEO took the moral hight ground and I called him out. At the end, he was telling me that the meaning of the word "unlimited" was due to a phylosophical discussion, just after he admited that the ratio of angry customers from discovering the truth Vs customers that would never discover the true (because the reality is that most websites are fairly small and unkown) encouraged Site5 to keep the shenanigans going.

What happened? Moderators deleted my posts and his (selected post by the way) and warned me for going offtopic. (the topic was: A customer of Site5 was complaining about finding out that their "unlimited" was actually really really limited).

- Another incided was a guy having some sort of DNS issues, several WHT members tried to explain to him what to do about it, It was realy one of those things take take you 2 minutes to do but 10m to explain, so after seeing that this guy was not getting the explanations at all, I voluteered to fix the issue for him. FOR FREE.

I got a warning because I was offering a service.

The last incided was the final drop, I decided there and then that WHT was not a community, but yeah, posting an add once in a while takes only a couple minutes.


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## host4go (Jun 26, 2015)

drmike said:


> A business has the legal and moral obligation to protect consumers.  Even one who claims to be a neutral publisher, non caring conduit or mall landlord. Those who don't eventually get federal government attention and beaten royally for running a fraud dumping ground.
> 
> As-is, what WHT mainly is = a non stop toilet roll of OFFERs.  These offers, mainly for hosting, are littered with companies who aren't serious, aren't going to good by customers, etc.  It's made worse by the super low barrier of entry which has guys spinning up shell companies to make offers on there for less than $100 plus a cup of time to populate their account for offer posting privileges.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree with you.

When on my previous post I said that we should not expect more from them, is not because I think they shouldn't do more, it´s because I realize that they are only focused in the $, thus there's no point in expecting more.

The only thing I disagree with you is that I dont think their problem is the liability issues, they already have that when they choose to name the account "Corporate Member". The same way the TOS saves their but now, iwould still save them with a vet process in place.

They just don't care, they want it to be dead simple for people to sign up for paid accounts and that's all there is to it.


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## drmike (Jun 26, 2015)

host4go said:


> The only thing I disagree with you is that I dont think their problem is the liability issues, they already have that when they choose to name the account "Corporate Member". The same way the TOS saves their but now, iwould still save them with a vet process in place.
> 
> They just don't care, they want it to be dead simple for people to sign up for paid accounts and that's all there is to it.


I actually do agree with you on this point also.  Liability was a long time ago and avoiding suits due to mechanics and processes is pretty impressive based on the sheer volume of misdoings on WHT all these years.

Corporate Member is a terrible title to cast upon paid account holders.  Corporate like all words has a definition and especially in law and commerce.  Corporate wasn't chosen as name for any other reason than to infer trustworthiness.  Not that a sole proprietor can't be trustworthy, it's just less likely to for such to be and sole proprietors are low / no overhead or compliance in many jurisdictions. 

As per Black's Law:


What is CORPORATION?

An artificial person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state or nation, composed, in some rare instances, of a single person and his successors, being the incumbents of a particular oltice, but ordinarily consisting of an association of numerous individuals, who subsist as a body politic under a special denomination, which is regarded In law as having a personality and existence distinct from that of its several members, and which is, by the same authority, vested with the capacity of continuous succession, irrespective of changes in its membership, either in perpetuity or for a limited term of years, and of acting as a unit or single individual in matters relating to the common purpose of the association, within the scope of the powers and authorities conferred upon such bodies by law. See Case of Sutton's Hospital, 10 Coke. 32; Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 4 Wheat. 518, 636, 657. 4 L. Ed. 629; U. S. v. Trinidad Coal Co., 137 U. S. 160, 11 Sup. Ct. 57. 34 L. Ed. 640; Andrews Bros. Co. v. Youngstown Coke Co., 86 Fed. 585, 30 C. C. A. 293; Porter v. Railroad Co., 76 111. 573; State v. Payne, 129 Mo. 468, 31 S. W. 797. 33 L. R. A. 576; Farmers' L. & T. Co. v. New York, 7 Hill (N. Y.) 2S3; State BL.LAW DICT.(2D ED.)

What that says is government issues the corporate moniker, at cost with the intent of at least several intended years of existence per pay cycle.  Such involves reporting, stock issuance perhaps and other account compliance.

In fact, WHT is giving Corporate memberships to "companies" who are in fact not even corporations. Legal fiction and some kingmaker of sorts bestowing fiction upon uncrowned heads.

It would suffice and be more accurate to have titles there like Paid Member and Paid (Even More) Member, or more sensibly Paid and Premium.

Nothing wrong with sole proprietorship though in general terms.   In hosting though where so much is liability and dealing with folks data and ones own legitimacy, it's umm odd.   I doubt you will find a datacenter operating as a sole proprietorship.  Anyone invested for the long haul tries to avoid the personal wealth liability risk that sole proprietorship infers.  Instead they use the legal fiction of a corporation or LLC (or equivalents elsewhere) to isolate risk from personal fortunes under concept of Limited Liability.

Yes, pet peeve of mine where businesses arbitrarily toss words around as-if they have no definitions.  Something like this gets into a Court over word abuse like this and the abuser would be royally whipped for it and quite embarrassed.


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## Dillybob (Jun 26, 2015)

I'd very much be happier with Mike running WHT than Penton. Probably could do it himself and still rake in more revenue while sustaining a ethical, safe hosting environment for all.


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## HN-Matt (Jun 26, 2015)

drmike said:


> All of this drives up the need for WHT to be murderously harsh about multiple accounts and other matters to filter the gene pool a bit to cut down on level of stupid.


If you wanna put it in those terms, it becomes incredibly easy for anyone to discern how the act of charging a lot of money for flashy, hideous, deceptive "CORPORATE" badges doesn't quite amount to filtering out or cutting down on stupid behaviours ('genetically speaking' lol) to say the least. Quite the opposite...


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## drmike (Jun 26, 2015)

host4go said:


> - Some poor lad had issue with Site5, Site5 CEO took the moral hight ground and I called him out. At the end, he was telling me that the meaning of the word "unlimited" was due to a phylosophical discussion, just after he admited that the ratio of angry customers from discovering the truth Vs customers that would never discover the true (because the reality is that most websites are fairly small and unkown) encouraged Site5 to keep the shenanigans going.


Ahh customers would be mortified by nested doll style companies hanging like voting chads off of upstream reseller account.

Things like "company" buys a reseller hosting plan with 50GB of storage but then is running ads all over for shared hosting themselves with allocations that up to 10x that and selling to one customer....

As one guy recently asked me to guess how much his shared customers consumed even though he sold an f-ton more than his resources underlying and proudly told me 15GB total...

I have issues with such BS.  Massive issues.  Someone sells say a 500GB plan on storage, but doesn't even have such on their upstream account.  Yeah that's some fraud right there.

As a customer I buy at times bigger plans to have actual headroom.  More resources than I need.  So when I go to use it even heavily I should be at 1/4 to 1/2 of allocation.  Some shop chew my account for use I'll probably go ape crazy.  Oversell fine, but overselling what you don't even have = fraud.

Unlimited = FRAUD.  No ifs about it.   Getting near this concept them it's UNMETERED and even that has maximums and shops ought to be stating them.



Dillybob said:


> I'd very much be happier with Mike running WHT than Penton. Probably could do it himself and still rake in more revenue while sustaining a ethical, safe hosting environment for all.


I'll apply to become a moderator or liason.. inspired by Dillybob and a few others.



HN-Matt said:


> If you wanna put it in those terms, it becomes incredibly easy for anyone to discern how the act of charging a lot of money for flashy, hideous, deceptive "CORPORATE" badges doesn't quite amount to filtering out or cutting down on stupid behaviours ('genetically speaking' lol) to say the least. Quite the opposite...


I agree with this.  My point is as the perception of it being a viable large market exists, the moderation needs to have attitude and regulate folks more than otherwise.   Corporate bought status BS isn't helping their cause in any way other than corporate financials. If they changed the names and adjusted it to a matter-of-fact membership with benefits otherwise, it might fly and create less friction and ill will.

Easy to dismiss me and others on the WHT drum loud team as old curmudgeons, but such would be missing the nose on their corporate face.  Ideally Penton makes adjustments I'd expect so the site redefines itself and regains trust in the market.   Hostility that happens I am less caring about providers getting it, but customers who rarely speak up and get rough treatment is very disappointing.


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## Onra Host (Jun 26, 2015)

@drmike

Please stay out of my company. None of my comments were directed at you...nor even on this site. As for you and your stupid ass opinions, lets clear this up...

1. I was a corporate/premium member for the last 3 years. It just expired and I have yet to renew it, I'll have it done shortly just to shut you up. 

2. Don't EVER compare me to GVH. You a sad person to be trolling like this. NEVER comment, mention or even think about the name 'Onra Host' ever again. You are not a client, and have never been a client. You have no right what so ever to ever say anything negative about my company and what "you think my offers are like". We've been in business for three years and turning a nice profit, which is the least I can say for most of these guys. More importantly we have gave EVERYTHING offered with our plans for the last 3 years and have some big improvements/more freebies coming in the upcoming months. When they come out I'll be sure to tag you in it, that way you can say can get your GVH high. 

I don't even know why I'm explaining myself to you..in fact if I remember correctly you were the one up GHV/Johhny ass defending him, or faciclting a sale, or always having news about him, or some shit..idk. 

3. "20 x $4 a month for Xen 512MB = $80 income on a server.  Yeah that's sustainable even if you own your own equipment... not.".... A tleast use common sense here, but lets see:

A. This is a PROMO. Meaning we don't make to much off of it. If you look at our regular VPS plans you would be happy to know we charge a lot more, and make our money quite well on non-promos  

B. Your math is flawed. Vm's are placed on free servers, so our profit margin is way higher then your measly figure. Again you know nothing about our company, so I have no clue how your even commenting. 

C. A box of 20 users isn't going to be $4 plans. It would be at minimum $7. So lets say $6.25 after IP and PP fees (ballpark, I'm not 100% sure) .. 20 x 6.25 = $125. 125 - $30 or so per rack plus bandwidth = $95 x 12 months = $1140/year. So if I was putting ONLY promo VM's, I would still pretty much be able to profit a nice amount and pay the server off a little year later. Though not the case either way, this just goes to show you it is profitable. 

D. Are you a IDIOT??????? Like really are you an idiot? You got companies giving away $35/month  32GB E3's, but your going to turn around and question me about sustainable pricing with "$80/month". Yeah GTFO.


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## HN-Matt (Jun 26, 2015)

do u even lift @Onra Host


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## Onra Host (Jun 27, 2015)

HN-Matt said:


> do u even lift @Onra Host


I do actually haha.

In all honesty I rarely post, but when I do it's usually towards someone using opinionated views as "facts". Despite having no real knowledge of a item or situation, they still feel the need to comment on it for some asinine reasoning. It just really grinds my gears... though this time it was an attack against me and my company by DrMike for something I said on another forum to somebody else. I don't take people talking about me, Onra, or any of my employees very lightly, especially when we take into account his entire post was speculation and not one actual truth.


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## Hxxx (Jun 27, 2015)

Onra Host said:


> @drmike
> 
> Please stay out of my company. None of my comments were directed at you...nor even on this site. As for you and your stupid ass opinions, lets clear this up...
> 
> ...


Is good that you replied, but now you have given drmike more drama material.


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## Dillybob (Jun 27, 2015)

Onra Host said:


> @drmike
> 
> sniped unprofessional ranting / babble
> 
> ...


Damn! A box full of 20 paying customers at an estimate of $1140 / year. Well, you're only around 300 or so dollars away of paying off that corporate fee! That ROI must feel great!! You're still forgetting about the sticky prices of $995 + other topic title features, etc *a week*!. But wait, your dedicated server customers help pay that off right?    

El oh El.


----------



## drmike (Jun 27, 2015)

Onra Host said:


> @drmike
> 
> Please stay out of my company. None of my comments were directed at you...nor even on this site. As for you and your stupid ass opinions, lets clear this up...


Bravo chap, bravo.  Glad to see you commenting.

1. Corporate membership,  did yours expire or was your account one of those "freebies"?  Save your money and bank it to subsidize those low end plans you just sold and that OnApp which loves to cost shops money.

2. I think your offers are flawed like many folks making offers.   When you pass the never oversold stuff and all that, meh.   I can get an 8 year old to do math, and they could tell you it doesn't add up like many shops.  If pack 20 containers something is wrong.  What are these?  Avoton nodes?  Definitely seems like a 16GB of RAM box.

3. "A. This is a PROMO. Meaning we don't make to much off of it."

I believe that's indeed true.  Nothing prevents whole nodes full of $4 LEB plans other you either limiting the inventory or expiring the coupon on LEB and you've done neither so it should be assumed that you have nodes full of $4 accounts.  That market buys cheap if they buy.   Even if you spread them around like peanut butter you still have nodes full of $4 plans, that is unless the promo just didn't move inventory.  $80 nodes sink ships. Even your rosey $95 income per server makes me wonder what the hell these nodes are made out of....

DD.  You got companies giving away $35/month  32GB E3's, but your going to turn around and question me about sustainable pricing with "$80/month". Yeah GTFO. 

Where are you seeing $35/month 32GB E3's?????? Cause I'll buy them. Probably about the best you are going to get is an 8GB E3 and older, weaker CPU with lots of run time on it.  You should know all about them, as you sell in Buffalo and on CC's network.

I think you are wrongly referring to my little pals bargain bins.  8GB E3's and it squashed the market and caused a lot of annoyance to providers. $35  is doable on that spec with a single small drive as a market ruin thing.  It's arguably $0-5 profit.  Depends on the financing.  But one has to be an idiot to sell stuff so low.

Dedis are fixed costs.  Already paid for, racked, often on, etc.  Facilities want such generating money even if lean.  If not covering costs then draining income from other profit centers to cover it.  Promos make sense for baremetal where companies are funded by monopoly money.

That said, your servers for that promo offer just make no sense.  I am unaware of any Quadranet server with 4 drives and decent processors that is going to fit in $95/mo income scenario.  Maybe you colo gear, you must.  At 50% cost, looking at $45 we'll say rounded down of profit, for a whole server. Full rack is 32A usable... so you can fit meh 28 servers, maybe 30....  If you populated that rack with 30 of these servers packed up (which hey moving 600 containers is nothing at said price and on said site)  you'd have $45 x 30 = $1400~ income at most. (rack @ $800/mo and $600 into other costs).  $1400 on a full rack and still have to pay labor. I guess.

But I know you aren't selling 600 containers and your other real business funnels the cash to subsidize playing in the low end sandbox.  Hope the paying customers like the noisy neighbors and the network snafus from lowenders. Be sure to drop money for a real router.  That's going to sting.

My question then is why do this promo baiting at all?  Why do little self admitted profit to yank customers in the door who have no loyalty  or retention?  It's throwing good money in  a hole in the ground.  It devalues your brand and you are supposedly into this 4 years.

Just saying $7 plans x maximum of 20 = $140 dollars per node pre every fee.  Not being a smart ass, but, that's not a sustainable income number and remember I told you that down the road.  Chalking it up to promotional thing, sure, I buy that. But look at what you did:

512MB Xen face price on your site = $12/mo, 1GB Xen face price = $24/mo... Sure those are SSD and have less disk than my watch does, but at least the numbers are alright.

Sale = 512MB Xen @ $4/mo plus 100GB of HDD    1GB Xen promo = $7/mo plus 175GB HDD

So the 512 = 66% price reduction and the 1GB = 70% price reduction.  No opinion.  

Node income on 512MB @ face $12 x 20 = $240 income or 3x more.

Is $12 too much for a 512MB plan? For companies with little reputation, yes.   Is $4 discount too low? By a bit. 

Now I am off to look at these shared plans and stickies.

PS: Fix your website:

http://onrahost.com/datacenters

http://onrahost.com/faq.html

http://blog.onrahost.com/ (nice blog I enjoyed it)

http://onrahost.com/sitemap.html

http://www.onrahost.com/fourms.onrahost.com 

http://forums.onrahost.com (nice I enjoyed the forums too)

http://www.onrahost.com/backupstorage.html

https://demos.onrahost.com/


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 27, 2015)

> PS: Fix your website:
> http://onrahost.com/datacenters
> 
> http://onrahost.com/faq.html
> ...



You forgot their facebook page...

I click here:





This guy doesn't even know how to manage a facebook account or link HTML correctly.

Btw, 'Your future' customers do see this and it plays a role in whether or not they will buy your service. But, I thought you would know that since your slogan is 'The future of hosting'. Obviously not.

You don't care about customer's or user experience, you just care about the plans and the money.


----------



## HBAndrei (Jun 27, 2015)

Come on guys, there's no need to make all of this personal with the name calling and raging all around, everyone has their own opinions... which should be expressed politely... just my 2 cents.


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## drmike (Jun 27, 2015)

Not like this company hasn't prior failed at math and dipped on customers leaving them without their services and data....  G7 Hosting.

Other problem I have is this registration number found only on LEB offer of G12000004524...

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]That appears to be a Fictitious name filing only.  Anyone probably can apply to fictionalize anything. Does not infer corporate status or mean not a sole proprietor.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]As I look I get more annoyed as prior failing of prior company was cleaned up on WHT by saying Michael wasn't involved in this new Onra entity as the head guy, but incorporation records seem to reflect his details on incorporation all the way back to 2009. See: [/SIZE]http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=RegisteredAgentName&directionType=ForwardList&searchNameOrder=CEPARANOMICHAEL%20L090000152330&aggregateId=flal-l09000015233-10ee3f3e-4a22-4818-941d-02eb65fe157e&searchTerm=CEPARANO&listNameOrder=CEPARANOMARYANN%20P930000733780

Which has a real interesting bastardization of this company name.  If my corporation bore such even from a typo I'd be getting that corrected real fast. Address and name match and all.. so...

Offer on LEB = 20 containers maximum, but OnraHost in comments later:


 "Nevertheless the boxes are always capped at 20 -25 maximum VPS  (depending on the specific plans)"
Deviating from the advertised guarantee of 20. Just saying, what's next?  50 in some instances (like when underpricing to LEB market)?


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## Vega (Jun 28, 2015)

I am seeing some of the same arrogance/disrespect of providers and what not on VPsboard that I was hoping not to find here like on WHT...more so, since it appears to be far more liberal here with personal attacks and what not.

Sigh. On the one hand, it is entertaining but for customers like myself the juvenile/immature high school behavior doesn't do much when we are(like myself) looking for good communities to get advice/help with hosting from when you see such cattiness.


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## drmike (Jun 28, 2015)

Shame @Vega because absent people blowing the whistle, buyers like you and me end up buying into shops with bad prior same failings.   Shops that like I feel in this instance are repeating the past with offers that are slowly changing in fact terms as they go.

Probably would help the market to know about a lot of other companies and their massive prior royal failures. 

Buyer always beware.


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## Dillybob (Jun 28, 2015)

Vega said:


> I am seeing some of the same arrogance/disrespect of providers and what not on VPsboard that I was hoping not to find here like on WHT...more so, since it appears to be far more liberal here with personal attacks and what not.
> 
> 
> Sigh. On the one hand, it is entertaining but for customers like myself the juvenile/immature high school behavior doesn't do much when we are(like myself) looking for good communities to get advice/help with hosting from when you see such cattiness.



I posted several questions here and have received great help. This place is a nice community. Don't let the immaturity fool you 

Just a few odd ducks like myself and others I disagree with.


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## MartinD (Jun 29, 2015)

Keep this on topic please people.


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## HN-Matt (Jun 30, 2015)

I remember making a thread about a promotional video for Host Nun in WHT's Other Reviews subforum because I wanted people to... uh... review it. Presumably the forum was there for reviews? The thread was deleted within a couple days and the mods tried to get in a heated argument with me about how it didn't belong there because it was 'just an advertisement' or something. Think I got some warning points on my account for it. Place is truly awful beyond belief.


----------



## Dillybob (Jun 30, 2015)

HN-Matt said:


> I remember making a thread about a promotional video for Host Nun in WHT's Other Reviews subforum because I wanted people to... uh... review it. Presumably the forum was there for reviews? The thread was deleted within a couple days and the mods tried to get in a heated argument with me about how it didn't belong there because it was 'just an advertisement' or something. Think I got some warning points on my account for it. Place is truly awful beyond belief.


Fiver gigs are fucking horrible and unprofessional for any company. Doing a fiverr gig basically means you're valuing your company at $5.00.  Not sure but I would side on WHT if they deleted threads like that.

Although, I found that video hilarious and awesome LOL.


----------



## HN-Matt (Jul 1, 2015)

BEEP BOOP VALUE OF COMPANY PRECISELY ISOMORPHIC TO PRICE OF FIVERR JOKE VIDEO


----------



## HN-Matt (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Not sure but I would side on WHT if they deleted threads like that.


Why?


----------



## drmike (Jul 1, 2015)

I don't want to derail, but.... Any marketplace, including Fiverr is going to have lots of garbage.   It's like the lowendjobs to fill hopelessness mostly...  Lots of sketch.... Lots of I will do anything for what? < $4 all said.  It's still a place to find some workers.  But don't expect to pay $5 on the new improved Fiverr-Fifty with that surcharge   Good folks these days are addons to get anything done..

Back to punting WHT....


----------



## HN-Matt (Jul 1, 2015)

drmike said:


> Blah Blah Fiverr-Fifty-Five-Hundred-Five-Thousand-Million-And-Five


Completely beside the point.


----------



## HN-Matt (Jul 1, 2015)

drmike said:


> Back to punting WHT....


Not much else to say. I think "I would side on WHT if they deleted threads like that" about sums it up for me.


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

HN-Matt said:


> Not much else to say. I think "I would side on WHT if they deleted threads like that" about sums it up for me.


No disrespect towards your company it's just I don't like fiverr either. (Eve worse than WHT). Fiverr is a marketing brothel that scams thousands every day.  

Back on point to WHT though: 

WHT's HostingFraud is coming July 27th:






'Hear directly from the industry's best and finest'. 

No one will learn anything new at this place, if anything you'll learn more watching fucking shark tank. The whole thing is a fraud and it's just stupid. Anyone who attends it, please record an 'activity' of you sitting down listening to the 'BEST OF the hosting industry speakers' and post back here.

I guarantee you it will be full of a bunch of old dementia bound geezers spewing their horseshit pedagogy.

Edit: Go to 1:07

'Meet business partners in a fun and educational environment', then right after it shows someone handing over a wine glass.. What an absolute joke.  I'm sure you learn more when you're buzzed right? And drinking wine is definitely an educational atmosphere. The whole thing is just bonkers.


----------



## Tyler (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Edit: Go to 1:07
> 
> 'Meet business partners in a fun and educational environment', then right after it shows someone handing over a wine glass.. What an absolute joke.  I'm sure you learn more when you're buzzed right? And drinking wine is definitely an educational atmosphere. The whole thing is just bonkers.


Go to 1:18 and see the magical fire 

Likely he is teaching sacrificial techniques to appease the gods of uptime.


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## drmike (Jul 1, 2015)

> I guarantee you it will be full of a bunch of old dementia bound geezers spewing their horseshit pedagogy.


I laughed at this.   Video started out quite true to that.

Trade shows are well, problematic.   I did that circuit a while back in other industries.   They tend to be very expensive for everyone.  Convention centers where most of these happen are in big cities and union operated.  You pay outlandish amounts for lazy guys to move your stuff when you were capable - house rules - and do so like tomorrow when they get to it.  Simple stuff like having coffee at your booth for people working the booth becomes nothing short of robbery.  I remember arguing about a gallon of coffee and how I couldn't bring it in from [name that chain] into the convention center.... Which I did any damn way.  Not like I am paying $100+ for cheap convention hall coffee.

Most folks use conventions as sophisticated vacations.  Justifying downtime before and after the event for their own personal.   Often scheduling vacation / off days around the actual event.  It's a biz deduction and lucrative for personal tax liability.

ROI is achievable at conventions, but you can't be a general consumer company at a show like this or won't happen.  These shows mainly are B2B in nature.  Sales team should be cutting deals and conventions like this are strange marketing + sales mashup in focus, wrong angle usually.  It's a place where some find vendors, few find true partner deals.   Hardware companies probably can find customers at such - one of the few right fits for such a show.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

drmike said:


> I laughed at this.   Video started out quite true to that.
> 
> Trade shows are well, problematic.   I did that circuit a while back in other industries.   They tend to be very expensive for everyone.  Convention centers where most of these happen are in big cities and union operated.  You pay outlandish amounts for lazy guys to move your stuff when you were capable - house rules - and do so like tomorrow when they get to it.  Simple stuff like having coffee at your booth for people working the booth becomes nothing short of robbery.  I remember arguing about a gallon of coffee and how I couldn't bring it in from [name that chain] into the convention center.... Which I did any damn way.  Not like I am paying $100+ for cheap convention hall coffee.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I'd honestly rather attend a VPSboardCon or LETCon for 50 or $100 and get to see the top providers (BuyVM, RamNode, etc) instead. I think that would be much more valuable.

I'm creating a video about hostingcon and will post it soon.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Agreed. I'd honestly rather attend a VPSboardCon or LETCon for 50 or $100 and get to see the top providers (BuyVM, RamNode, etc) instead. I think that would be much more valuable.
> 
> I'm creating a video about hostingcon and will post it soon.


Drama. I don' t see people opening threads and complaining about vpsboard in wht, then why this community need to have conversations that depends on other communities or about other communities? 

Dillybob how about a post about a vps or a tutorial? How about a question in relation to this forum?


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## host4go (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> Drama. I don' t see people opening threads and complaining about vpsboard in wht, then why this community need to have conversations that depends on other communities or about other communities?
> 
> Dillybob how about a post about a vps or a tutorial? How about a question in relation to this forum?



And now.. whos being the drama queen?


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> Drama. I don' t see people opening threads and complaining about vpsboard in wht, then why this community need to have conversations that depends on other communities or about other communities?
> 
> Dillybob how about a post about a vps or a tutorial? How about a question in relation to this forum?


If I were to create a tutorial on how to use a VPS it would be me showing a simple shell script with apt-get's lol and installing the basic webserver  stack.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> If I were to create a tutorial on how to use a VPS it would be me showing a simple shell script with apt-get's lol and installing the basic webserver  stack.


That or keep being drmike 2.0 and filling the forums with useless non sense.


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Alrighty, for everyone who has seen my WebHostingTalk worst of the hosting industry video know that I rambled a lot towards the end. This time, I got to the point and want to explain how HostingCon is actually a violation of our human rights. 

 

My first contention would be that they are under no obligation to dictate what 'age' we must be to attend a conference or talk to other hosting providers. We should beable to learn about the web hosting industry at any age. Whether this would be attending conferences or talking to providers face to face.

 

 

My second contention would be they are contradicting themselves by allowing 'alcohol' be used with the word education, that doesn't make sense and whenever there is alcohol / wine involved, makes it a NON-education learning environment. You can see this in their 2014 promo video here at 1:06.

 

And the third part starts at around 3:30  shows several red flags of their hostingcon full conference benefits chart.


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## MartinD (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> If I were to create a tutorial on how to use a VPS it would be me showing a simple shell script with apt-get's lol and installing the basic webserver stack.


Maybe that's exactly what you should do. Not everyone knows how to do that.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

MartinD said:


> Maybe that's exactly what you should do. Not everyone knows how to do that.


Why did you delete my topic?


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## MartinD (Jul 1, 2015)

I didn't, it's hidden and I contacted you about it in private.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Alrighty, for everyone who has seen my WebHostingTalk worst of the hosting industry video know that I rambled a lot towards the end. This time, I got to the point and want to explain how HostingCon is actually a violation of our human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok i understand, you don't know what you are talking. Great to let us know.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> Ok i understand, you don't know what you are talking. Great to let us know.


Let me know when you come back with a coherent argument that proves that drinking alcohol at a learning convection is a good idea. Thanks.

Other then that, I hold firm to my belief that alcohol and learning do not coincide.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Let me know when you come back with a coherent argument that proves that drinking alcohol at a learning convection is a good idea. Thanks.
> 
> Other then that, I hold firm to my belief that alcohol and learning do not coincide.


This is an event for adults, not for kids. In USA you might find that is normal at some work places the presence of alcohol. My guess is that the networking event is at the end, so  why not alcohol? The kind of people that go to these events have deep pockets. 

Let me guess? You can't afford anything related to WHT, right? So i guess that your only option is to go raging in the internet. Nice try.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> This is an event for adults, not for kids. In USA you might find that is normal at some work places the presence of alcohol. My guess is that the networking event is at the end, so  why not alcohol? The kind of people that go to these events have deep pockets.
> 
> Let me guess? You can't afford anything related to WHT, right? So i guess that your only option is to go raging in the internet. Nice try.


Who would want to afford anything related to WHT's fraudulent / deceptive forum badges? Not me and not Francisco and hundreds of others that don't have a corporate title. You don't need a WHT corporate title to be successful it's a sham.

Also, by your argument are you saying Wine is only used by people who have deep pockets? That's quite a over-generalization and very untrue. My grandma lives off her pensions and still drinks wine. (She still has to pay the mortgage of the house & utilities).

'The king of people that go these events have deep pockets'. 

Deep pockets of MONEY that is going towards a fraudulent subsidiary of Penton (WebhostingTalk).


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## KuJoe (Jul 1, 2015)

100% of professional conventions/conferences I have been to have alcohol during the networking portion. When you're old enough you are going to look back on your threads and laugh at how silly you look. It's OK though, we all do silly things when we're young and naive.


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## KuJoe (Jul 1, 2015)

Also, the majority of people that go to these kinds of IT conventions/conferences do not pay out of pocket.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

KuJoe said:


> 100% of professional conventions/conferences I have been to have alcohol during the networking portion. When you're old enough you are going to look back on your threads and laugh at how silly you look. It's OK though, we all do silly things when we're young and naive.


I'll never drink alcohol at school, or a learning environment like how the 2014 HostingCon promo video portrayed. Alcohol and learning don't coincide but I guess that flew past your head. If you are drinking alcohol at a professional convention you're not learning anything. It's a contradiction from what the promotional video said (showing the wine glass almost instantaneously right after they said 'learning environment', they couldn't be more wrong).

I find it hilarious u don't agree with this, oh well.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Actually, we do have a corporate membership, have for some time.  It's attached to my account, not Fran's, as I kept up with our offers postings.

For quite awhile, the extra posts brought in some decent traffic.  We haven't posted to WHT in some time (or anywhere, really, other than Fran waxing his carrot over the new sites >_>), so we'll see if its worth keeping once I have the posts rolling steady again.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Alcohol and learning don't coincide


BAHAHAHAHA.  Ok, yeah, you do not know us at all then.  All of us at BuyVM over the years were pretty much completely self-taught, and Fran only seriously got worried whenever Anthony or I would be _sober_.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> BAHAHAHAHA.  Ok, yeah, you do not know us at all then.  All of us at BuyVM over the years were pretty much completely self-taught, and Fran only seriously got worried whenever Anthony or I would be _sober_.


The biggest screwups from you guys always happened when people were sober.

You're more or less Bender.

Francisco


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> Actually, we do have a corporate membership, have for some time.  It's attached to my account, not Fran's, as I kept up with our offers postings.
> 
> For quite awhile, the extra posts brought in some decent traffic.  We haven't posted to WHT in some time (or anywhere, really, other than Fran waxing his carrot over the new sites >_>), so we'll see if its worth keeping once I have the posts rolling steady again.


When you say 'decent traffic', how good was the ROI? I'll be more than happy to delete my video if it's actually worth it... You would just have to measure between the 7 days to 3 day intervals as well.  I didn't know BuyVM had one though, always thought it was just Fran running the bus


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob the saint.


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## KuJoe (Jul 1, 2015)

So being drunk is mandatory at HostingCon? Why do you assume only children are attending? Your self proclaimed weak will power should have no bearing on how others live their lives.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

KuJoe said:


> So being drunk is mandatory at HostingCon? Why do you assume only children are attending? Your self proclaimed weak will power should have no bearing on how others love their lives.


^^^^^


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> BAHAHAHAHA.  Ok, yeah, you do not know us at all then.  All of us at BuyVM over the years were pretty much completely self-taught, and Fran only seriously got worried whenever Anthony or I would be _sober_.


Oh no don't get me wrong. You guys can drink all you want and run a business however u want at your own discretion, im not judging that. I'm just saying when hostingCon advertises a convection that says 'learning environment with the best speakers of the hosting industry', then go right to a wine glass being passed around the table.. that is just immature and seems unprofessional and silly. If they were serious about learning or taking notes of a great speaker they wouldn't be drinking  the first place. I think you can agree with me on that atleast?  Unless, people take the best notes of their life and listen and REMEMBER everything when their drunk.. I highly doubt that.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> When you say 'decent traffic', how good was the ROI? I'll be more than happy to delete my video if it's actually worth it... You would just have to measure between the 7 days to 3 day intervals as well.  I didn't know BuyVM had one though, always thought it was just Fran running the bus


I used to handle sales posts but I've been simply too busy. Aldryic handled all sales posts last year.



KuJoe said:


> So being drunk is mandatory at HostingCon? Why do you assume only children are attending? Your self proclaimed weak will power should have no bearing on how others love their lives.


Depends if punching some dudes wife is on your bucket list >_>

Francisco


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> If they were serious about learning or taking notes of a great speaker they wouldn't be drinking  the first place. I think you can agree with me on that atleast?  Unless, people take the best notes of their life and listen and REMEMBER everything when their drunk.. I highly doubt that.


You should research the Ballmer Peak.

But on a more serious note - if you were old enough to drink socially (not getting shitfaced as some frat party - having dinner/drinks with friends or a working meeting at a pub), you'd know that people don't just have a few glasses of wine and suddenly go nuts.  Even Fran, who never drinks, could easily put back a few glasses of wine and not even be tipsy from it.  Stronger liquor?  I drink _constantly_, and unless you happened to see me drink or smell it on me you'd never know.

tl;dr - two drinks doesn't turn you into Animal House


----------



## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> Oh no don't get me wrong. You guys can drink all you want and run a business however u want at your own discretion, im not judging that. I'm just saying when hostingCon advertises a convection that says 'learning environment with the best speakers of the hosting industry', then go right to a wine glass being passed around the table.. that is just immature and seems unprofessional and silly. If they were serious about learning or taking notes of a great speaker they wouldn't be drinking  the first place. I think you can agree with me on that atleast?  Unless, people take the best notes of their life and listen and REMEMBER everything when their drunk.. I highly doubt that.


..ok NOP.

Man I'm telling you, is normal for people having beer, wine and such in a working or learning environment. I don' t see how this is so limiting to you. 

When you get enough responsibilities in your life , you will feel the pain, some people prefer to have some moderate alcohol to relax. Others just eat, other people prefer to sleep (yeah some work environments allow that).


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## host4go (Jul 1, 2015)

Calm down guys, Dillybob can't take the booze from you.

Dillybob does have a point at alcohol not playing well with learning, that's just a fact. 

But then Dillybob is missing the other objective of this conventions, which is networking. And for networking booze is always welcome


----------



## KuJoe (Jul 1, 2015)

If you get drunk at a convention (even ones without any educational panels) you will be removed.


If you get drunk off half a beer then don't drink before class if you want to learn anything.


If a stranger pressures you into doing something you don't want to do tell an adult.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

No, the point he's missing is that _drinking != drunk_.


----------



## host4go (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> When you get enough responsibilities in your life , you will feel the pain, some people prefer to have some moderate alcohol to relax. Others just eat, other people prefer to sleep (yeah some work environments allow that).


Sounds like you approve for people to drink in order to "ease up the pain". Maybe it´s time for an intervention 

Now seriously, you all taking this too seriously, he had a valid point, but he failed to see the whole context, but you, trying to be the bugger man by having a go at him for being "younger" is not really a manly thing to do, hehe


----------



## MannDude (Jul 1, 2015)

To be honest I thought people only went to HostingCon to socially drink network with others in the industry. Get some product swag, see some demonstrations, rub some elbows and drink some beers sort of thing. It's a good social lubricant.


----------



## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> ..ok NOP.
> 
> Man I'm telling you, is normal for people having beer, wine and such in a working or learning environment. I don' t see how this is so limiting to you.
> 
> When you get enough responsibilities in your life , you will feel the pain, some people prefer to have some moderate alcohol to relax. Others just eat, other people prefer to sleep (yeah some work environments allow that).


I don't resort to alcoholism for pain, I resort to programming / venting on forums. So there will never be an issue with that, alcoholism & smoking is a selfish escape route, just like how suicide is a selfish way out (how many family members will be hurt, etc). The person doesn't think about them do they? The person who drinks alcohol or smokes doesn't think how it's hurting their body?

For example, my grandma has COPD and is on oxygen 24/7. DO YOU KNOW how much of a burden she is on our family?  We love HER to death but holy crap, it's freaking painful and AWFUL to see her in the ICU at the hospital because she had ammonia and fluid build up in her lungs with COPD. It was DAMN painful to be in the ICU center and see her oxygen mask pumping oxygen to her. It will bring anyone to tears. How did it happen? She smoked for 70 fucking years that's why, doesn't give a shit about themselves or what they will do to their future grandchildren, or how their own health effects family members emotionally and physically. Same thing with alcohol. 

(An occasional alcoholic drink every now and then is probably fine, but getting drunk every week, etc is my main point).


----------



## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

MannDude said:


> To be honest I thought people only went to HostingCon to socially drink network with others in the industry. Get some product swag, see some demonstrations, rub some elbows and drink some beers sort of thing. It's a good social lubricant.


^^^ this is the point. You are not going to HostingCon to get a certification or to get a degree LOL , i mean is just a networking event, like the above description ^


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

...right, so this isn't about professionalism at all then.  Glad we cleared that up.


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> I don't resort to alcoholism for pain, I resort to programming / venting on forums. So there will never be an issue with that, alcoholism & smoking is a selfish escape route, just like how suicide is a selfish way out (how many family members will be hurt, etc). The person doesn't think about them do they? The person who drinks alcohol or smokes doesn't think how it's hurting their body?
> 
> For example, my grandma has COPD and is on oxygen 24/7. DO YOU KNOW how much of a burden she is on our family?  We love HER to death but holy crap, it's freaking painful and AWFUL to see her in the ICU at the hospital because she had ammonia and fluid build up in her lungs with COPD. It was DAMN painful to be in the ICU center and see her oxygen mask pumping oxygen to her. It will bring anyone to tears. How did it happen? She smoked for 70 fucking years that's why, doesn't give a shit about themselves or what they will do to their future grandchildren, or how their own health effects family members emotionally and physically. Same thing with alcohol.
> 
> (An occasional alcohol or drink every ONCE in a while is probably fine, but getting drunk every week, etc is my main point).


Don't go personal, we don't care.

Also don't judge everyone and assume hey if you drink alcohol you have an alcoholism problem , you are a drunk, buddy it doesn't work like that.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> ...right, so this isn't about professionalism at all then.  Glad we cleared that up.


No it relates perfectly to professionalism.

You don't drink and get 'buzzed' in a professional environment to learn. You fucking take notes, ask questions, sit up straight and be alert.  Ask any professor if they think drinking some 'wine' during their lecture would be okay or NOT go against school policy.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Hxxx said:


> Don't go personal, we don't care.
> 
> Also don't judge everyone and assume hey if you drink alcohol you have an alcoholism problem , you are a drunk, buddy it doesn't work like that.


It's not personal it's an anecdote to prove a point that you obviously don't care about. Bet you will be a great grandchild one day


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

It doesn't relate at all.  You're biased in the wrong direction - rather than blaming smoking for your family problems, you should be blaming your бабушка.  That's like saying guns are the problem, when it's the people pulling the trigger.

Ask any professor, eh?  Cool, I taught a few supplimentary courses at a local Uni after my service was up, most of them off campus.  Not only did I permit reasonable drinking, I had a glass of scotch in my hand the entire time.

If you want to be Steve Urkle, man, go for it.  Don't try to force your ridiculous assumptions on others or judge them for your own misconceptions, though.  That's how Mormons get made.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> It doesn't relate at all.  You're biased in the wrong direction - rather than blaming smoking for your family problems, you should be blaming your бабушка.  That's like saying guns are the problem, when it's the people pulling the trigger.
> 
> Ask any professor, eh?  Cool, I taught a few supplimentary courses at a local Uni after my service was up, most of them off campus.  Not only did I permit reasonable drinking, I had a glass of scotch in my hand the entire time.
> 
> If you want to be Steve Urkle, man, go for it.  Don't try to force your ridiculous assumptions on others or judge them for your own misconceptions, though.  That's how Mormons get made.


No misconceptions here, unless you can prove to me that drinking scotch while teaching is actually beneficial and helped you to teach better which I highly doubt.

Besides that though, you drinking scotch is also 100% irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I made no arguments pertaining to the 'speakers drinking alcohol and then lecturing', I'm talking about the students who sit in the classroom (or a hostingcon convection) and drink alcohol but are there to learn? You don't drink alcohol and learn, it's really that simple. Unless, ofcourse you can link me studies that prove you learn and can retain information better when under the influence.

Also, just because YOU made a policy that said reasonable drinking is okay in your class holds no merit to the argument at hand and doesn't mean it's true. I can make a policy that says no one should eat food in my class because eating food distracts your brain from learning. Sounds ridiculous right? But does it make it true? Hell no.  

But, being under the influence of alcohol *objectively* AND *negatively* effects learning that's my point that you and others seem to fail to grasp.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

"fewer neurons that are able to function correctly, leading to long–term problems *in learning* and behavior."

"nic and debilitating syndrome characterized by *persistent learning* and memory problems"

Now, do you want me to find more sources or do you just want to sit back and defend alcoholism and the belief that drinking doesn't effect learning? Because the last time I checked, wine has alcohol in it and when you're sitting down at a convection when the best 'hosting industry speakers' are talking, I'm sure the LAST thing you'd want to do is start drinking alcohol.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Just answer me this, textbook - have you ever had alcohol yourself?  Because it's becoming more and more obvious that all you know is from fourth grade DARE classes.

You seriously think one or two drinks is enough to actually impact the average person?  No amount of quoting will ever prove you right when your own inexperience is so blatant.


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## k0nsl (Jul 1, 2015)

I know you're probably just trying to make people react, but can you please stop using the word "convect" to describe a "convent"? They're different, you know. Didn't you pay attention during your English classes?  
It can hardly be a mistake on your part as you're using the same word on LET as well. If you genuinely thought it was a "convector" instead of a convent, well..


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> Just answer me this, textbook - have you ever had alcohol yourself?  Because it's becoming more and more obvious that all you know is from fourth grade DARE classes.
> 
> You seriously think one or two drinks is enough to actually impact the average person?  No amount of quoting will ever prove you right when your own inexperience is so blatant.


 You don't need to experience something to know it's wrong. And to answer your question, no and I never will. But as I explained *I don't need to drink alcohol to know its effects.*

I don't need to hurt a child or inflict pain on someone to know it's wrong.. I don't do it because I have a sense of ethics and moral values.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

If you had ethical and moral values, you'd know that trying to force your _INEXPERIENCED_ opinion on others is.. well, unethical.

Now that we've established you don't actually know what you're talking about, and completely rely on third hand knowledge, we can dismiss this line of discourse completely.  *hattip*


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> If you had ethical and moral values, you'd know that trying to force your _INEXPERIENCED_ opinion on others is.. well, unethical.
> 
> Now that we've established you don't actually know what you're talking about, and completely rely on third hand knowledge, we can dismiss this line of discourse completely.  *hattip*


You should probably re-read my posts above. It's not an inexperienced opinion it's objectively true and you're just butt hurt and have no idea how to handle criticism. I already outlined and sourced a link that proves alcohol negatively effects your learning.

If you want to sugar coat your beliefs and keep on thinking it doesn't, that's fine & dandy, but it's untrue. 

Worse, I can even make the argument now that you were allowing your students to drink in class and how that plays a negative role in their learning.. but I won't even go there, I still like you.

Oh, I forgot: " *hattip* "


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

"Sourced a link"   That's great.

Ok, I gave you a chance to walk away while you could.  Let's break alcohol down to it's base function - it's a toxin that inhibits brain activity.

How about those folks with legitimate psych issues?  Severe shyness, can't handle being in public, etc etc.  Medication (which inhibits their brain activity, and can be deadly when overused) can calm them and help them function much better than they normally could.  There was this one nice lass in my evening class who suffered from, excuse my medical jargon, "thinking too fast".  Severe distraction, couldn't concentrate, couldn't learn.  Her medication, which acted as a downer in a very similar fashion to how alcohol works, enabled her to calm down and concentrate.

I GUESS SHE NEVER LEARNED ANYTHING EITHER.  SHE OBVIOUSLY WOULD'VE DONE BETTER WITHOUT THE DRUG - AFTER ALL, YOUR SCIENCE BOOK SAYS SO.

So, because you're slow enough to take the above message literally - yes, consuming excessive amounts of alcohol impairs you.  THAT is without a doubt.  What I, and others, have repeatedly been telling you that 1-4 drinks (depending on the person and their tolerance) can have from absolutely no effect at all (such as me) to helping them relax and focus after a long day.

You, however, are all theory and no execution.  You *think* you know how alcohol works because you're read it in a textbook - and you have absolutely zero first or even second hand experience to back your claims.  You naively believe that having one drink, whether it be a glass of wine, a beer, or a warm butter rum, automatically means you've been inhibited.

You poor, deluded fool.  Adulthood is going to _destroy_ you.  Now, if you don't mind, those of us that don't have our heads stuck up our asses will resume the topic at hand without going full Jehovah.

Never go full Jehovah.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

I might agree to an EXTENT, BUT ONLY to an extent that maybe a 'few' drinks might not have any effects on someone but I have not see any studies. From what I know alcohol goes straight into the bloodstream instantly and the effects happen in minutes regardless of the amount.

And the folks with legitimate psych issues need to see a psychiatrist and get some medication, *not resort to alcohol EVER under any circumstances. It will just worsen her overtime. *Have a good day sir. I'm done for tonight.

And your ad-hom attacks do nothing to me and just make you look foolish .



> Her medication, which acted as a downer in a very similar fashion to how alcohol works, enabled her to calm down and concentrate.


Try some new meds, that's how the world works. A lot better than ultimately becoming an alcoholic in the future or becoming addicted to it.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> From what I know alcohol goes straight into the bloodstream instantly and the effects happen in minutes regardless of the amount.


Uh..no, alcohol, typically a consumable liquid, is processed by your liver.  If you have an IV tap and you're spiking it with _alcohol_, you would be dead.  Regardless of the amount.

Perhaps instead of reading the hilights, you should read the entire article next time.  You are in dire need of education on how the digestive system functions.



Dillybob said:


> And the folks with legitimate psych issues need to see a psychiatrist and get some medication, *not resort to alcohol*.


You could not have missed the point of that paragraph any harder.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> Uh..no, alcohol, typically a consumable liquid, is processed by your liver.  If you have an IV tap and you're spiking it with _alcohol_, you would be dead.  Regardless of the amount.
> 
> Perhaps instead of reading the hilights, you should read the entire article next time.  You are in dire need of education on how the digestive system functions.
> 
> You could not have missed the point of that paragraph any harder.


See my edit.

And you're wrong. Alcohol enters the bloodstream almost instantly and can effect a person within minutes. (Dependent on their tolerance level).


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> And you're wrong. Alcohol enters the bloodstream almost instantly and can effect a person within minutes. (Dependent on their tolerance level).


One serving of alcohol is fully absorbed into the blood stream within 30 minutes to 2 hours after intake. This is because the body can metabolize about 0.25 ounces of alcohol per hour. [source]

Oh damn, it looks like I can source URLs as well.



Dillybob said:


> Have a good day sir. I'm done for tonight.


Very well, I'll leave you with a closing thought for the evening, in the hopes that it inspires you to improve your wisdom rather than worry about your intelligence.

The main problem with WHT are all of the kids thinking that they know everything, with minimal to no experience, trying to feel important.  So, congrats on being part of the problem.


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## Dillybob (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> One serving of alcohol is fully absorbed into the blood stream within 30 minutes to 2 hours after intake. This is because the body can metabolize about 0.25 ounces of alcohol per hour. [source]


Looks like we have some comprehension issues here. I said *entering* the bloodstream, not being fully absorbed. Two totally different things.  When entering the bloodstream, the effect can start to influence the person. By your logic, you're saying if you drink 23123 shots of liquor you won't feel the effect until 30 minutes or 2 hours after intake? Merely laughable, you should brush up and re-read posts more carefully in the future.

Have a wonderful night.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

No, alcohol does not affect a person until it's at the brain.  Barring ridiculously lethal ingestion, of course.

And no, my logic the entire evening has remained constant.  You're the one more bent on a holy crusade.  But like you said, you're done for the evening, remember?  Go back to WHT with all the other summer kids.  We'll be happy to welcome you back once you've matured a bit 

At this point though, it's pretty obvious that you have to have the last word to feel better about yourself.  So by all means, go for it - say whatever you like for your next reply, and rest easy knowing the better man stepped off the stage so you could embarrass yourself to your heart's content <3


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## host4go (Jul 1, 2015)

I find it amazing all this gangbang on a kid that says he is against drinking alcohol on occations where one should be focused on learning.

Moreover, the kid is right, it´s not an oppinion, it´s a fact based on loads of evidence.

You guys wanna drink and feel you are more of a man for doing so? go for it, but going against a kid that is  against drinking doesn't reflect well on you. 

I couldn't care less about who of you drink, or how much you drink, but stop telling a kid that drinking can be great on learning environments. That´s just plain stupid.

As a sidenote: If a teacher (regardless of institution) in my country encourages (or just allows) his students to drink on his classes he'll be fired and exposed to lawsuits.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

host4go said:


> I couldn't care less about who of you drink, or how much you drink, but stop telling a kid that drinking can be great on learning environments. That´s just plain stupid.


Oh, it's not great on learning environments.  But, therein lies the crux of the entire issue - he was focused on extremes.  His initial stance was that *any* alcohol was a serious inhibition.  And when those of us old enough to know better offered correction, such as positing that having a beer can relax you, he took that to mean that 1) alcohol helped learning, and that 2) we were denying that getting piss-drunk would inhibit learning.

Only a Sith fool deals in absolutes.  Had he paid more attention to what folks were telling him, rather than assumed the worst, this whole ordeal would have never passed in the first place


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## host4go (Jul 1, 2015)

Aldryic C said:


> Oh, it's not great on learning environments.  But, therein lies the crux of the entire issue - he was focused on extremes.  His initial stance was that *any* alcohol was a serious inhibition.  And when those of us old enough to know better offered correction, such as positing that having a beer can relax you, he took that to mean that 1) alcohol helped learning, and that 2) we were denying that getting piss-drunk would inhibit learning.
> 
> Only a Sith fool deals in absolutes.  Had he paid more attention to what folks were telling him, rather than assumed the worst, this whole ordeal would have never passed in the first place



I understand what you mean here, but he´s still not wrong, while it´s true that a beer won't knock you out or prevent you from catching that subject your were interested in, it´s also true that one beer will have an effect on your learning ability, even if small to the point of being negligible. 

If we were to talk about "levels" then we would have to start by acknowledging that each one of us have their own personal limit. I believe he never meant to discuss this ordeal to great detail, nor there is the need to.

This reminds me the alcohol limit for driving, here it´s 0,05mg, it gives you the right to go home walking, a large fine and possibly loose your driving license (if it wasn't your first time being caught), over 1.2mg you go to jail.

The limit of 0.05mg is like 2 beers. no adult that is used to drinking really feels the effect of 2 beers, but studies go that even so it's tampering with your reflexes and so on...

Now I am the one getting into too much details 

Anyhow, let´s all agree to take it down a notch, let´s have fun, let´s talk about GVH (joking).


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 1, 2015)

Ah, but if you're going the "to the point of being negligible" route, then it's pure pedantry.  Which has no place in a reasoned discussion in the first place.  But as you said, personal limits are where it gets really interesting.  We end up cycling back to my 'medication' example.

Suppose you're a very nervous, easily distracted type.  You sit in class, try to learn, and have a pretty rough time of it.  Next day, before class, you have a smooth butter rum.  It calms you, helps you focus.  Yes, the alcohol did indeed have an effect - but at this point the effect is _not_ negative.  This is the point the young man needed to grasp, but he was too caught up in pedantics to see it, and automatically assumed that the claim was "_excessively_ drinking alcohol helps you study".

Aye, the topic did need a great deal more extrapolation than either end of the extreme, but sadly that'll always be the case to avoid falling into "Not X so must be Y" pitfall.  Though I must say, I do greatly appreciate the level headed responses you passed back, so thank you for a more rational discussion


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## Hxxx (Jul 1, 2015)

And to finalize, yes is normal for alcohol be present where adults are "networking".


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## MartinD (Jul 2, 2015)

Any networking event I've been to has had a bar.


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## heiska (Jul 2, 2015)

I'll just leave this here.


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## rupe (Jul 4, 2015)

host4go said:


> while it´s true that a beer won't knock you out or prevent you from catching that subject your were interested in, it´s also true that one beer will have an effect on your learning ability


The same could be said about coffee (cafeine), soda (sugar), and practically any food or beverage. And that effect could be a positive one, it all depends upon the person.

Of course if we're talking about American beer, that's really just coloured water and probably wouldn't have much an effect at all - except for extra washroom visits of course


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## HN-Matt (Jul 4, 2015)

lol @ this thread
 



Dillybob said:


> You don't need to experience something to know it's wrong.


@Dillybob go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_priori_and_a_posteriori and then meditate on http://trustgaininggraphics.com or something.


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## Gang Starr (Jul 4, 2015)

I can only agree that WTH is the fawwwking crap. 

But you Dillyboy oh boy you don't do any better.


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## gordonrp (Jul 8, 2015)

This thread is a disaster. Shitty threads like this makes it a pain to TRY to participate in forums like this (no offense to the founders), because it only highlights that 90% of people on forums have verbal diarrhea, no business experience, and need to get out more. Or at least that people who post the most actually have the least experience or value to share.

Dillybob whining about sticky thread pricing obviously has no real business experience, no concept of branding power, nor how to calculate ROI over the life of a client.

WHT has sent me over a million bucks in business, with multiple 6 figure clients, if they want to charge $1k per sticky I'll pay it. Why? Because they are massive lead generator.

WHT is a business, they're good at what they do. If you don't like that then go out an do it better.


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## Dillybob (Jul 12, 2015)

gordonrp said:


> This thread is a disaster. Shitty threads like this makes it a pain to TRY to participate in forums like this (no offense to the founders), because it only highlights that 90% of people on forums have verbal diarrhea, no business experience, and need to get out more. Or at least that people who post the most actually have the least experience or value to share.
> 
> Dillybob whining about sticky thread pricing obviously has no real business experience, no concept of branding power, nor how to calculate ROI over the life of a client.
> 
> ...


Haha. Yeah, because your anecdotal evidence sure is proof that your ROI with WHT is such a blessing. What percentage of the provider base that made over a million with WHT do you represent, the 1%? What a silly point you made, it has no weight. 

Just because they're a business doesn't give them a right to hand out corporate titles with no quality background checks on provider's for a flat fee ($1,440 / y).

In fact, they are a business and supposed to withhold corporate citizenship with their community. Maybe you should give this a read since you know ALL about business.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporatecitizenship.asp



> The extent to which *businesses are socially responsible for meeting legal, ethical and economic responsibilities placed on them*. The aim is for businesses to create higher *standards of living and quality of life* in the communities in which they operate, while still preserving profitability for stakeholders.


I fail to see how this is sustained when handing out free corporate badges for a flat rate fee with no *quality insurance checks*.

That's like the same logic as the DMV handing out drivers licenses for a flat fee and never have to get our *license renewed*.... Can you imagine how bad the roads would be? (Even worse than what they are now).


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## Aaron (Jul 15, 2015)

Dillybob said:


> 1.a) *They are in my opinion, I think a lot, and everyone knows about them and they play a huge influence in hosts reputations,  They own the market for anything web-hosting related, I cannot find a bigger forum. Although, their forum activity has gone down, I still believe the majority of the hosting industry knows about them.*


Yes and no.  5 years ago this statement would have been spot on.  Back then I would say an easy 75% of our business came from there but these days?  20% at most.... and it's the only forum I advertise on.

It used to be that all the big boys were there.  Softlayer, The Planet, RackShack back in the day but show me an ad from OVH?  1&1?  None of the big guys are there any more and they seem to be doing just fine.


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## Aaron (Jul 15, 2015)

MartinD said:


> So, with the information I've received, it would seem that gratis Corporate accounts is a reality. That leaves quite a bitter taste.


Ive been around there for a long time and Ive never heard of free anything. (Except a rumor that The Planet was getting free stickies years ago)  If that is, in fact, the case then, yes, I know a lot of people who will be less than happy.


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## Aaron (Jul 15, 2015)

DomainBop said:


> The big question for providers, which is unanswered by just looking at the prices on the WHT ad rates sheet, is how the ROI for WHT advertising spending compares to the ROI for alternatives like Google Adwords (which has been decreasing for years for advertisers in every category), Facebook, other industry forums, etc.


We didn't notice an appreciable uptick in sales when we did a sticky.  We tried it twice and sales were the same as with a regular post.  Highlighting and font size increase have some effects on views but they don't seem to translate into any noticable sales boost.  That being said, I like the way they look so I still do them.


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## drmike (Jul 15, 2015)

gordonrp said:


> WHT has sent me over a million bucks in business, with multiple 6 figure clients, if they want to charge $1k per sticky I'll pay it. Why? Because they are massive lead generator.


This is true.  Your company is more of an infrastructure play and while there are competitors still, lesser so.  

With these successes it is rather like paying to foster key leads so they grow into larger accounts.  So deferred income and it happened a good bit over time (i.e. people didn't buy $100k worth from the sticky directly).  They ended up being that, but not month 1 or probably even 12 (most of them).

This sort of approach takes the financial liquidity to get to the end result and the vision to run sales with actual emphasis on such.  Very much a long long term relationship fostering key leads via an effective sales process.

I applaud the approach and congrats on this working out.  

Those with general issues with WHT ad uptick pricing are downstream small companies without the means to stretch $5 very long and sales are constant need just to continue (often with terrible margins to boot).  For them a sticky is typically impossible ROI.



Aaron said:


> Ive been around there for a long time and Ive never heard of free anything. (Except a rumor that The Planet was getting free stickies years ago)  If that is, in fact, the case then, yes, I know a lot of people who will be less than happy.


WHT won't say why accounts were free.  But it is wise to assume it wasn't a corporate mandate.  Someone was surely either manually modifying accounts (pay to play) or there was/is a billing related hack/vulnerability that allows for free membership.


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## HostXNow (May 20, 2017)

Guy sounds like the American boxing commentator Max Kellerman. 

Mad video btw.


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## Lee (May 21, 2017)

Never understood what the underlying issue was with his view towards WHT. I suspect services were bought from a Corp member that turned out to be not so good. Although there was a point where people like Greenvaluehost along with others figured out how to get a Corp membership without paying for it. They were all subsequently banned when it was discovered.


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## raindog308 (May 21, 2017)

HostXNow said:


> Guy sounds like the American boxing commentator Max Kellerman.



I read that too fast and thought it was an MST3K joke about Max Keller from "Master Ninja":








Lee said:


> Never understood what the underlying issue was with his view towards WHT. I suspect services were bought from a Corp member that turned out to be not so good. Although there was a point where people like Greenvaluehost along with others figured out how to get a Corp membership without paying for it. They were all subsequently banned when it was discovered.



He was like a LowEndDrMike. And DrMike was like a LowEndCarlBernstein. I think some people get off by fancying themselves as investigative reporters or something.


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## bitpeso (Dec 21, 2017)

Interesting thread. Wow, it has gone off the rails from when it began a while ago. I see the latest post has something that seems familiar.  I arrived here after doing a search related to WHT that had to do with an issue a company I deal with faced. At one time they were the game. They will survive and aren't going under any time soon. That gives their moderators the ability to abuse at will. They seem to enjoy smacking around members for the most minor issues and watching them beg for their privileges back. Our lead gen there was never anything to write home about and we did far better elsewhere, including _low end_ places. 

Considering that so much has moved on since their heyday, I haven't been back and others I know have moved on, not caring to deal with the childish attitude and potential for having to deal with problems over minor forgettable issues. It's their sandbox. They can fill it up with turds if they wish. The answer is to move on.


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## Vovaze (Feb 16, 2018)

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## DaFlame76 (Feb 16, 2018)

bitpeso said:


> Interesting thread. Wow, it has gone off the rails from when it began a while ago. I see the latest post has something that seems familiar.  I arrived here after doing a search related to WHT that had to do with an issue a company I deal with faced. At one time they were the game. They will survive and aren't going under any time soon. That gives their moderators the ability to abuse at will. They seem to enjoy smacking around members for the most minor issues and watching them beg for their privileges back. Our lead gen there was never anything to write home about and we did far better elsewhere, including _low end_ places.
> 
> Considering that so much has moved on since their heyday, I haven't been back and others I know have moved on, not caring to deal with the childish attitude and potential for having to deal with problems over minor forgettable issues. It's their sandbox. They can fill it up with turds if they wish. The answer is to move on.



I have to agree. This thread has drifted far from the original topic.

As for WHT, I've had similar experiences with them. They seem to have acquired an elitist attitude.
I was very polite with them in parting, but I won't go back there now. I hate to speak negative of any group, but they probably have their reasons for being like that. Many people trying to abuse their rights. Also, their web interface feels archaic like something out of the 90s it needs an overhaul. I prefer this one.


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## Vovaze (Feb 16, 2018)

I agree with your opinion. Its better to move on than to argue because you cannot get anything in return.


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## JackThomas (Jun 23, 2018)

Dillybob said:


> Finally got done making this video. Just despicable how they treat their visitors and hosts. You deserve better. (See the youtube description for click links)



This is very informative.


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