# Cyber-libel and Criminal Defamation



## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

Hello VPSBoard,

 

Today I am writing to you as the victim and recent target of criminal defamation of character.  Cyber-libel is a growing issue, a sure sign of the "ugly" side of the internet that continues to rear its' head to the light of day. Most recently, GoodHosting.co has come under fire from many community members of a site called "LowEndTalk".  I'm sure members of this community are already quite aware of such a community's existence, and both the good and bad points of such a community; which are not the current topic of discussion.

 

I am under the opinion that based on best practices and business ethics we have undertaken our jobs as an Online Service Provider to the fullest of our abilities; and offer an on-par service that can hardly be compared with others. Currently, the hosting [ Internet Service Provider ] of this service could not be reached, as their public servers are protected by a pass-through network known as "CloudFlare"; which has its' own protections and due process in which we must follow to send a notice of removal forward.

 

We are leaving this discussion open to public opinion before proceeding with legal action, as certain "threads" on this community website are currently infringing on the reputations of our staff [ myself ] in a way in which is considered criminal by the Government of Canada.  We have began this process under good faith, and hope to have a response shortly. The window for such as response, as set forth by the Government of Canada and regulations on "Cyber-libel" is only one weeks time. If we have not heard back from the provider, or an affiliate of the provider in regards to the removal of the infringing content, we will be force to bring this injustice to the Supreme Court of Canada to hear in which jurisdiction this court case will play out in.

 



 

As you know we had been removed from this community, and can no longer take part in discussions posted therein.  We have been accused to be involved with and facilitating *SCAM* operations by the staff members of this community.  Most recently however, our removal was made permanent through an action of one of our previous providers.

 

Someone in which we previously had service through, had chosen to forward traffic from their domain to our site, through no prior knowledge or consent on our side.  We have been removed from the community mentioned for this sole reason, and have not been given any method of regaining our access, even though we have came forth truthfully with all and any information that has been requested during their investigation in this matter.

 

I personally feel as if I am being targeted in this matter, as the same circumstances could have happened to any third part [ and have in the past happened to many ] in which the party has not been treated the same. This shows that we are being unduly targeted, as someone who has been proven to commit acts of fraud has not been removed from this aforementioned community, while we were; when no evidence of fraud has been provided.

 



 

We trust that the community, as well as our loyal and well-served customers, might come forward to voice their opinions on this issue as well; as only the community is able to comment on this situation.


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## blergh (Jun 14, 2014)




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## Lee (Jun 14, 2014)

I understood the second post.


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## MartinD (Jun 14, 2014)

Not being funny but what has this got to do with vpsboard? What are we and the community over here supposed to do about it?


Frankly, the way in which you conducted yourself over there was hardly that of a professional so coming over here moaning and complaining about it doesn't help you.


It's also worth noting quite a few of us have been around a while. Screaming libel and 'crimincal defamation' is hilarious as we've seen it all before.


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## drmike (Jun 14, 2014)

@GoodHosting,  What happened over there on LE* to you / your company?  Sorry, I am slacking lately.  Busy with life and watching houseplants grow.

Libel is a difficult topic.   Surely, many want to believe I libel the clowns who own that other site... Obviously, claiming libel is a bully tactic some use against whistleblowers and chronic troublemakers....

Guess I understand both sides a bit too well.

Problem with invoking laws enacted in Canada is that said site is not within Canada, nor governed by such.  So no jurisdiction, nor authority to slap them at law. 

Any legal matter would have to be pursued in the United States under their laws and more specifically under the laws of the State of New York.


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## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

MartinD said:


> Not being funny but what has this got to do with vpsboard? What are we and the community over here supposed to do about it?
> 
> 
> Frankly, the way in which you conducted yourself over there was hardly that of a professional so coming over here moaning and complaining about it doesn't help you.
> ...


I only say "Cyber-libel" and "criminal defamation" because that's actually what it's called in our legal code now, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_defamation_law and more specifically the story around this lawsuit: http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/05/06/teacher-helpless-to-stop-web-defamation/

I did post it in Off Topic anyways, not trying to spam up VPSBoard with it; just wondering what people expected to turn out differently from each party.

---



drmike said:


> @GoodHosting,  What happened over there on LE* to you / your company?  Sorry, I am slacking lately.  Busy with life and watching houseplants grow.
> 
> Libel is a difficult topic.   Surely, many want to believe I libel the clowns who own that other site... Obviously, claiming libel is a bully tactic some use against whistleblowers and chronic troublemakers....
> 
> ...


Luckily [ again, see the above court case ] the Canadian government has recently been helping us Canadians exercise our right to protect ourselves against hate speech.

A TL;DR of what happened:

- We were buying servers from LowEND

- LowEND imploded

- We ceased all activity with LowEND

- Some angry kid tried to get LowEND banned, found out they were already fucked, then went after us [ I have proof of this part ]

- Angry kid goes after us, LowEndTalk happily takes the bait [ apparently they've never liked us? ]

- Insanity Ensues

Somewhat later:

- We get unbanned

- Happy family for a day or two

- LowEND's owner points his domain at us

- Angry kid sends photoshopped screenshots to LowEndTalk

- We get banned for LowEND's owner pointing his domain at us

Not sure how we could have prevented the above.


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## MartinD (Jun 14, 2014)

Anyone serious about attempting to bring libel charges wouldn't post their intentions on a forum.


Just sayin.


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## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

MartinD said:


> Anyone serious about attempting to bring libel charges wouldn't post their intentions on a forum.
> 
> 
> Just sayin.


As I have been advised by my legal counsel, the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out with the parties involved before going the full mile.  I'd just let to get the situation sorted, and understand [ as I am rather young myself ] what I did wrong in this situation, and how I could have possibly handled it better so that it did not come to this.  I would like to be successful in business some day, and to do that; I will need to learn from my mistakes.

Clearly I did something wrong to lead up to this point, but I cannot find what I could have avoided on my end.  I have no control over LowEND's DNS records, so there's no way I could have stopped him from pointing his domain at me.


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## drmike (Jun 14, 2014)

@GoodHosting, can you PM me URL of the thread-brewhaha from over on that site?


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## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

drmike said:


> @GoodHosting, can you PM me URL of the thread-brewhaha from over on that site?


Most of it was over tickets / emails / etcetera, where mpkossen has basically told me to "fuck off' at this point.  He continues to claim that he has evidence that I am some Australian kid, but doesn't actually put up any evidence.

I'll PM you the thread that got me seeking legal help though. [ unrelated to my ban. ]


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## MartinD (Jun 14, 2014)

You could chalk it up to dealing with idiots and move on...?


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## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

MartinD said:


> You could chalk it up to dealing with idiots and move on...?


Sure, but I need that Silkroad thread removed first.  They accused me of being related to the owner of Silkroad, which is a pretty big accusation.


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## MartinD (Jun 14, 2014)

Don't see why. No one ever takes crap from there seriously.


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## drmike (Jun 14, 2014)

Well that's an odd thread over on LET.  Definitely legally able to muscle that or at least make enough of a stink that they make it go bye bye.  Ask Kossen to move that thread to Off Topic so it is hidden to public and leave it at that.  Should get it out of search engines and that's your core concern.

Base accusation is time/site down overlap for two people.   That's scant in details.  Way less than I'd ever pipe up about.. The relationship to the Darknet and allegations no doubt are troubling if you have business / adult / real customers. 

Nothing else that links the story up in the toilet bowl?  That's it right?

If you sell to LE* kids, then they probably will be turned on by such and interested in your service.

Believe me, you are far from the first person to regret selling to the lowend and to reget posting over there...


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## DomainBop (Jun 14, 2014)

> As I have been advised by my legal counsel, the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out with the parties involved before going the full mile.


A. None of the parties involved are here so posting here about the problem will do you about as much good as posting on the MuppetShow forums

B. If your attorney said it was OK to post about a potential legal issue on a public forum then the mofo should be disbarred for giving bad advice.

C. If you actually have an attorney, he should be sending evil libelspewing party A a nastygram telling them to rectify the situation or you'll be hauling their ass into court.  Posting on a public forum about evil party A is about the worst thing you can do if you're contemplating legal action against evil party A.

D. LET's refusal to remove a thread (silkroad) that was started by a 3rd party would likely fall under USC230 protections (the "ISP immunity" clause)...especially since the silkroad allegations were made by a 3rd party who has no relationship to the forum owner LET/CC. If you're planning on filing a libel suit you should go after the socially challenged teenager who posted the silkroad thread.



> LowEND's DNS records, so there's no way I could have stopped him from pointing his domain at me.


Minutes after you were banned again from LET today the LowEnd domain was pointed at mpkossen's facebook page by whoever controls the domain.



> Any legal matter would have to be pursued in the United States under their laws and more specifically under the laws of the State of New York.


The case _could_ be filed in Canada initially if Goodhosting's lawyer is billing by the hour and trying to rack up some fees,  but even the most incompetent defense attorney wouldn't have any problems in forcing a venue change to NY State. 



> Believe me, you are far from the first person to regret selling to the lowend and to reget posting over there...


..and if being banned and not able to post offers anymore on LET/B causes financial hardship to anyone then they seriously need to rethink their business plan.

edited to add:



> Currently, the hosting [ Internet Service Provider ] of this service could not be reached, as their public servers are protected by a pass-through network known as "CloudFlare"; which has its' own protections and due process in which we must follow to send a notice of removal forward.


Why not just send the removal request directly to the website's owner and their ISP since you know the site is owned and hosted by ColoCrossing/Velocity Servers instead of wasting your time sending a notice to CloudFlare who will then forward it to the website owner and ISP.  The only time you would send a notice to CloudFlare is if you don't know who is hosting the site or owns the site. 

from cloudflare:



> CloudFlare is a pass through network that caches content for a limited time only. We do not provide hosting services for any website. CloudFlare will notify the site owner and, where appropriate, the web hosting provider for the site in question.


In addition, when you submit a removal request to CloudFlare (or many other companies like Google) they will do what my company  has done many times in the past when we have receive removal requests: file a copy of your removal request at ChillingEffects which may then be indexed by search engines.



> By submitting a report, you agree to submitted data potentially being released by CloudFlare to third parties, such as Chilling Effects.


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## Patrick (Jun 14, 2014)

I believe filling in @blergh's form would help.

Anyways you should now probably look for another market instead of LE* since you're on a permanent ban, I doubt threatening legal action will make this any better and I doubt your legal advisor would tell you to go post on a forum for further advice. 

~Patricia


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## Dylan (Jun 14, 2014)

Your own posts, including this thread right here, have done far more damage to your reputation than anyone else ever could.


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## drmike (Jun 14, 2014)

Well I fail to see what the OP did wrong really.  Maybe some other thread or prior conduct?  The thread seems absolutely baseless over there.   Even beneath my perceived lowly standards of evidence.

I agree with @DomainBop 's post....

One point to pick at:

*"LET's refusal to remove a thread (silkroad) that was started by a 3rd party would likely fall under USC230 protections (the "ISP immunity" clause)...especially since the silkroad allegations were made by a 3rd party who has no relationship to the forum owner LET/CC. If you're planning on filing a libel suit you should go after the socially challenged teenager who posted the silkroad thread."*

This may prove true, but competent counsel should really be up for a heated argument at-law over that concept.   LET does PLENTY that exceeds the neutral pass through publishing party standards sites like to hide behind.  The place is rather-policed, they edit posts (even when people don't request such), they refile category to Off Topic and to public as matter suits them.  They also actively participate, including moderators, other principals / ownership of parent company, partners, etc.   So they exceed normal "publisher" role passing things freely through software by about 15 miles.  And, their decisions, choices, and voices on matters can logically be inferred to benefit their financial well being (for the parent company, not the decoy site in the middle website).

WHICH IS WHY A PROVIDER SHOULDN'T BE OWNING SUCH A SITE and EVEN BEING A MODERATOR OF SUCH IS A HORRID IDEA.  AKA CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

If you proceed with a suit, tell your legal counsel to file the matter under the concept of joint and severed liability.  Pursue in all matters, by name, all of the corporations involved, plus all their owners and known shareholders in their personal capacity.  It will be a BIG list.

If the "accuser" is a minor, adjoin his legal guardians and any insurer they have (non government insurer).


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## drmike (Jun 14, 2014)

and... back to the main original issue, from over there....

There was Lowendbox.co(?) that folded / went under... Then their is GoodHosting which was inheriting customers freely from such.... Do I have this right?  and concept by some is that both companies are one in the same.. right?

@GoodHosting, no chance the two accounts repping both companies along the way wasn't sharing a common IP address? That's by far and wide the biggest gotcha over there.  Was this brought up anywhere in public or PM?


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## MartinD (Jun 14, 2014)

Yeah, this isn't LET or the side-show to discuss what's going on there when you get banned.


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## GoodHosting (Jun 14, 2014)

drmike said:


> and... back to the main original issue, from over there....
> 
> There was Lowendbox.co(?) that folded / went under... Then their is GoodHosting which was inheriting customers freely from such.... Do I have this right?  and concept by some is that both companies are one in the same.. right?
> 
> @GoodHosting, no chance the two accounts repping both companies along the way wasn't sharing a common IP address? That's by far and wide the biggest gotcha over there.  Was this brought up anywhere in public or PM?


I can honestly say that I have not a single customer from this debacle, as I've only had registrations recently from our offers at FreeVPS and NationServer respectively [ as we were allowed to post offers on the sites we sponsor. ]  I opted not to post an offer on LowEndTalk when I was unbanned because I knew it would lead to more shit, and give mpkossen a reason to go after me again [ as it seems he wanted to. ]

viCommunications was some unrelated kid as far as I know, he self-proclaimed "worked for" LowEND; but the owner never confirmed that [ that I'm aware of. ]  I didn't know the viCommunication kids but two days prior to thew hole thing imploding, because viCommunications had sent me a PM on LET asking for my Skype [ which mpkossen can see, so he knows well about that. ]

Oh yeah, here's viCommunication's Skype logs to me:

https://db.tt/Rb8CerVm

https://db.tt/CLVKzXdA

https://db.tt/K5uLl8R3

Admittedly, I was feeding the troll that morning, should have kept my mouth shut I guess. Basically... lots of fun, lots of him hating me for something I didn't do [ that he admitted I was unrelated, but wanted to drag me through it since he couldn't get at Michael, apparently. ]

---



MartinD said:


> Yeah, this isn't LET or the side-show to discuss what's going on there when you get banned.


I don't even care about the ban, just trying to figure out how it exploded to this proportion.

This is the Off Topic section, but if this thread is too off-topic, feel free to remove it [ I didn't see any specific rules to what would fit this type of post, so I just went ahead and posted it. ]

---

Thanks all for the help on this thread honestly, the feedback is rather constructive in general.

---

@drmike : Thanks, will consider it.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jun 14, 2014)

GoodHosting said:


> As I have been advised by my legal counsel, the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out with the parties involved before going the full mile.


No matter how I look at it, that just reads as "Why are you wasting our time with this?".  And I can't help but agree.

Somebody said something untrue on the internet.  Not really a big cause of concern.  The only thing you're accomplishing here is giving them the satisfaction of having gotten you worked up over it.  Immediately throwing the lawyer card, especially in a situation that doesn't come close to calling for one, does nothing more than show how similar you are to them.


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## Shados (Jun 14, 2014)

GoodHosting said:


> the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out.


...Fuck, I read this and all I could think was "STRIFE SPECIBUS: LAWSUIT" before giggling uncontrollably for the next 30 seconds. I blame bad parenting.


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## Schultz (Jun 14, 2014)

It would be so funny if "vicommunications" was reading this thread. :mellow:

After reading through some of the threads, it does appear that Michael Long owns LowEND.co and clients were going to be transfered to you after he deadpooled. It also appears he threw "vicommunications" under the bus for him and this "vicommunications" charecter wanted revenege so he leaked details pertaining to your secret relationship with LowEND.co - which is now a deadpooled provider.

Michael Long is already a deadpooler. He's owned a company called "Yottobytes Networks" (link: http://lowendbox.com/blog/dead-pool-october-2011/)

All in all, I think you deserved what you got coming.


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## Nett (Jun 14, 2014)

GoodHosting said:


> Currently, the hosting [ Internet Service Provider ] of this service could not be reached, as their public servers are protected by a pass-through network known as "CloudFlare"; which has its' own protections and due process in which we must follow to send a notice of removal forward.


LET/LEB hosts themselves. They are owned by Colocrossing.


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## drmike (Jun 15, 2014)

Nett said:


> LET/LEB hosts themselves. They are owned by Colocrossing.


Nature of the whole take down approach is to trim the front side first, which is Cloudflare in this instance.   Cause in theory you don't know where the site is hosted, but historically, and at last check, yeah they bury their self hosting (CC) behind CF.

This whole situation I think needs my fine toothed comb going over    Hoping people are being straight.... cause we know what can happen if I find smoking guns and missing hands.


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## ihatetonyy (Jun 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> LET does PLENTY that exceeds the neutral pass through publishing party standards sites like to hide behind.  The place is rather-policed, they edit posts (even when people don't request such), they refile category to Off Topic and to public as matter suits them.  They also actively participate, including moderators, other principals / ownership of parent company, partners, etc.   So they exceed normal "publisher" role passing things freely through software by about 15 miles.  And, their decisions, choices, and voices on matters can logically be inferred to benefit their financial well being (for the parent company, not the decoy site in the middle website).



As awful and heavy-handed as ChicagoCrossing can be with the website, if any ruling along those lines comes to pass we'd all be worse off for it. It looks like as long as they didn't edit the posts in the thread to become libelous they're solid.



EFF said:


> While Section 230(f)(3)'s definition of an information content provider includes "any person ... that is responsible ... for the creation or _development_ of information," the inclusion of "development" does not prohibit editorial activities. "Development requires material substantive contribution to the information that is ultimately published. Deleting profanity, selectively deleting or allowing to remain certain postings, and commenting favorably or unfavorably on some postings, without changing the substance of the message authored by another, does not constitute “development” within the meaning of § 230(f)(3)." _Donato v. Moldow,_ 374 N.J. Super. 475, 865 A.2d 711, 727-728 (N.J. Super. A.D. 2005). Moreover, failing to remove a posting after being put on notice of the posting's potentially defamatory nature, constitutes an editorial function and thus falls within the immunity provided by section 230. _Global Royalties, Ltd. v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC_, 544 F. Supp. 2d 929 (D. Ariz. 2008). _Universal Commc'n Sys., Inc. v. Lycos_, 478 F.3d 413, 420 (1st Cir. 2007). However, when an internet service provider requests potentially defamatory material for the purpose of incorporating the provided material into a larger posting containing original "thoughts and contributions," section 230 immunity may not apply. _Woodhull v. Meinel_, 145 N.M. 533, 202 P.3d 126 (N.M. App. Ct. 2008)(in reversing a grant of summary judgment, the court stated that, the "defendant created a question as to whether [a previous posting] could reasonably be viewed as containing two substantive elements calling for separate analysis and treatment.")


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## Nett (Jun 15, 2014)

Oh hey, serverian just done another paid promo thread for Vultr.


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## serverian (Jun 15, 2014)

Nett said:


> Oh hey, serverian just done another paid promo thread for Vultr.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkyy57iMaB0


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## Nett (Jun 15, 2014)

When did Biloh change his surname lol.


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## AThomasHowe (Jun 15, 2014)

I do feel a bit sorry for you GH, especially reading some of those Skype convos (it's funny, I was talking to vi at the same time. His spin was *obviously* very different, though. I was surprised he even asked for my Skype on the day he got fucked over). I can't help but think the wording of the first post and others like it are why you aren't getting much traction. I get it, you feel as if your name is being dragged through the mud... it's not libel though and it's not defamation, those are some very strong terms. You're rubbing people the wrong way and making them resistant to help you.

Others are right too though, now *you* are the one spreading this crap over to other forums, nobody else. As much as some here would like it to be it's not the spillover from LET... it's just taken in some of the drift wood...


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## Dylan (Jun 15, 2014)

Nett said:


> Oh hey, serverian just done another paid promo thread for Vultr.


I assume you have evidence to back up such a damning claim, right?


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## GoodHosting (Jun 15, 2014)

The only thing I want removed is the Silkroad connection, as I had my employer phoning me the next day asking why it was on the top of Google.

---

In response to the LET posts, since they've linked here now:

@AThomasHowe / @mpkossen : The C&D / Removal letter, I'd sent it to CloudFlare originally [ I never even knew cloudflare-watch was a thing. ]  They never responded to my initial removal request, but they respected my one regarding the thread in question; and responded to me today saying it has been forwarded.

https://db.tt/VBifFCB8

 

@AThomasHowe / @gsrdgrdghd : Everyone did stupid things when they were young, I don't know why my 3 stupid projects equate to me being a scammer.

 

@alexh



> He continues to pull shit from his ass to attempt to threaten those who called him out, as proven by his messages with other members.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That hurts a little.  I don't know what I've done to deserve this kind of automatic hatred, but I can't expect any differently from certain people [viCommunications and friends?]  I have no issues with being "called out" if there is proof of any wrongdoings.  I would not be here if there was proof of any wrongdoings, I'd probably be locked up in a prison; as fraud is straight up ILLEGAL in many countries.

I seek help from law enforcement because I am a CANADIAN, DISABLED, YOUTH and a SMALL BUSINESS OWNER [ literally 4/6 of the minority hate groups.  I need only be homosexual and a woman to get a top score. ], I have literally nobody else to turn to; since everyone is very happy to jump on the hate train without seeing any proof attached, just for the sake of drama.  As well, you can't fight a battle of post removal without the right to speak [ I'm not sure how you think I'd get a post removed without an audience exactly, that's what legal / abuse messages are for, they give that audience. ]

I don't need anyone to come to my defense, but I do appreciate [ and I appreciate it very much so ] all the input I have received into how I could have handled this situation differently.


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## AThomasHowe (Jun 15, 2014)

> @AThomasHowe / @mpkossen : The C&D / Removal letter, I'd sent it to CloudFlare originally [ I never even knew cloudflare-watch was a thing. ]  They never responded to my initial removal request, but they respected my one regarding the thread in question; and responded to me today saying it has been forwarded.
> 
> 
> 
> https://db.tt/VBifFCB8


 

Right, I wasn't trying to make a point with the screenshots but I still stick by what I said about you're making too much of a deal about the legal. It's not impressive and it won't make people back down either, it'll make them resistant to work for you. Just not wanting to get caught up in the percieved web of lies.

 

 



> @AThomasHowe / @gsrdgrdghd : Everyone did stupid things when they were young, I don't know why my 3 stupid projects equate to me being a scammer.


Uh, I believe I stood up for you in that regard...


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## GoodHosting (Jun 15, 2014)

> Uh, I believe I stood up for you in that regard...

And I thank you for that.

---

In response to the cbroughton / "4chan" conspiracy theories:

My avatar is literally a cropped picture of myself from my trip to Cuba a year back.  The full image is available here:

https://db.tt/vRkUihXC

That nice fellow next to me made me the hat out of palm leafs, and cut a few coconuts open for my family; so we took a picture of him and myself with the hat.

Yes, I am an Albino; and yes, that is me in the hat.

---

As per why "4chan" got involved... I sponsored a community project called "4craft" at one point, a 4chan minecraft server.  As to how that turned into this.. it's kind of obvious knowing 4chan.

---

@alexh : I don't claim to be a professional, I'm only 21 for gods sakes. [ only just turned as well. ]  I'm just trying to gain business experience, and having the worst of luck with suppliers.


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## AThomasHowe (Jun 15, 2014)

GoodHosting said:


> And I thank you for that.


When you're young you want to break the systems. As you get older you want to build them...


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## GoodHosting (Jun 15, 2014)

AThomasHowe said:


> When you're young you want to break the systems. As you get older you want to build them...


So very true...

I did some stupid things when I was young; I'll not hide from that, but nothing was "illegal" per se.  Hell, all of my claims of being a "hacker" back then were completely false, as back in the early 2000s you had to seem big to get anywhere.  The GamerzNeeds post was... I don't even know what I was thinking that day, but the FS post turned into a great business relationship for some years, and then eventual backstab [ as it seems Michael did to me here. ]


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## AThomasHowe (Jun 15, 2014)

Well yeah, but that's what happens when you do business with people like that. For the record what viComms said to me was that Michael said he'd fun vi to start his own hosting company if he helped clear up the mess. There were also _claims_ of a $100,00 lawsuit against Michael and stuff which is why he thought he had so much money (and I guess the Silk Road connection). I think Michael was probably just trying to big himself up a lot with vi, though. I felt like what he said about funding the host may have been true though.


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## MartinD (Jun 15, 2014)

This isn't the LET messaging board!


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