# Hostages Taken in Sydney



## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

Hostages have been taken in a Sydney, Australia Lindt Chocolate Cafe in a possible Islamic Jihadist "attack". There is a lot of speculation going around right now.

*No one has been killed! *Hostages in the cafe were forced to hold up Jihadist flags against the windows. It is unsure if there are one or two gunmen in the building*. One may (speculation based on observation by bystanders and of police) have been wearing a vest and backpack. The police have flak jackets.

ABC News Live Feed Relatively slow. Just a live news feed.

Yahoo7 Live Feed Same as ABC. No live video of the situation.

Best Update Source - Reddit He's keeping a pretty solid update going.

New Reddit Source

I've posted this due to the potential global affect this may have. Given that this is currently believed to be a terrorist attack, which is just speculation, it may have very big implications. I will try to edit in updates, as they occur. Please use this thread as a discussion.

Picture of cafe goers and employees holding up the Jihadist flag.

Picture of tactical units around the building where hostages were taken.

Picture of suspected hostage taker in the building.

*Updates*

* - An employee who managed to escape has *confirmed there are two gunmen*.

  - A suspicious package was left in a Sydney hospital.

  - Police are supposedly storming the building. I'm pretty sure this was just shoddy journalism.

* - Looks like there is only one gunman... I don't trust this source.

  - Added a picture of the suspected hostage taker.

  - Prime Minister Tony Abott will be addressing the media at 1:30 GMT

  - Police are now attempting to make contact with the hostage taker.

  - Suspicious object found at the famous Sydney Opera House. Police are responding. The building has been evacuated.

  - Heard over the police scanner: no update on the hospital package. Though, it's really hard to hear and the accents don't help.

  - The CEO of Lindt says there are around 50 people holed up in the cafe in central Sydney.

  - The Prime Minister's address has been delayed 10 minutes to 1:40 GMT.

  - The Opera House is believed to have been cleared at this time.

  - We're now three hours into this...


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## Nick (Dec 14, 2014)

Call in the Commando's. Those ISIS pricks won't know what hit them.


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

Nick said:


> Call in the Commando's. Those ISIS pricks won't know what hit them.


It is not known if there is any affiliation with any Jihadist/terrorist group at this time. The flag used was a general, non-specific flag.


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## Nick (Dec 14, 2014)

Steven F said:


> It is not known if there is any affiliation with any Jihadist/terrorist group at this time. The flag used was a general, non-specific flag.


That flag says "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is the messenger of God." Thats a pretty strong and certain link to ISIS for me.


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

Nick said:


> That flag says "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is the messenger of God." Thats a pretty strong and certain link to ISIS for me.


It's a general Jihadist flag that indicates absolutely no group or organization. Think what you want, but there is no link nor any indication to anyone backing this terrorist.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahada#Use_on_flags


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## lbft (Dec 14, 2014)

Terrorist attack? Seems more like a crazy guy with a gun who happens to be a radical religious nut, rather than any sort of organised terrorist attack - 13 people in a cafe is too _small_ for that awful purpose.

I'd put zero faith in The Australian's coverage; they're sensationalist shitheads who'd sell their own mothers if it got them more clicks. I'm keeping my eye on the ABC (public broadcaster) and 7 News, who are literally across the road and have cameras pointed at it (although the police have asked them to stop showing the live footage).


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## RTGHM (Dec 14, 2014)

Nick said:


> That flag says "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is the messenger of God." Thats a pretty strong and certain link to ISIS for me.


Roll the military out, take the building by force. Sniper take out gun men - those guys don't deserve to make it out of there for what they do.


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

lbft said:


> Terrorist attack? Seems more like a crazy guy with a gun who happens to be a radical religious nut, rather than any sort of organised terrorist attack - 13 people in a cafe is too _small_ for that awful purpose.
> 
> I'd put zero faith in The Australian's coverage; they're sensationalist shitheads who'd sell their own mothers if it got them more clicks. I'm keeping my eye on the ABC (public broadcaster) and 7 News, who are literally across the road and have cameras pointed at it (although the police have asked them to stop showing the live footage).


I was about to pull The Australian, as I came to that same conclusion pretty quickly.

This is a terrorist attack, whether or not it was organized by a large group. However, it is causing some hysteria. There is more going on, currently, and it's unclear if this is an organized attack or just one religious nut.


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

RTGHM said:


> Roll the military out, take the building by force. Sniper take out gun men - those guys don't deserve to make it out of there for what they do.


I'm sure that your years of training and experience in hostage situations is appreciated by the Australian government.


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## RTGHM (Dec 14, 2014)

Steven F said:


> I'm sure that your years of training and experience in hostage situations is appreciated by the Australian government.


I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier than sitting around trying to "talk the situation down"


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

RTGHM said:


> I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier than sitting around trying to "talk the situation down"


How about we leave the tough decisions to the professionals, because this is a serious matter with dozens (potentially hundreds) of lives at stake. There are offices above the cafe with people stuck, waiting. They don't know if there are one or two gunmen. They don't know if the gunmen has any explosives. They are doing the right thing and are playing it safely.

Edit:

The CEO has stated there are 50 people IN THE CAFE.


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## Steven F (Dec 14, 2014)

I can no longer update the original post, as its been an hour.

*Updates*

  - Police are helping people in the offices above the Lindt Cafe evacuate the building.

  - _The US Consulate in Sydney has sent its employees home and issued a warning to American citizens._

  - Abott has spoken. I personally think he said nothing intelligent. He did say that the NSW Police will begin providing operational updates shortly.

I'm popping out. The series finale of The Newsroom is on and I can no longer update my original post, pretty much invalidating the point of updating. I hope everyone stays safe and that this ends peacefully.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Dec 14, 2014)

RTGHM said:


> I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier than sitting around trying to "talk the situation down"


You only think ending a life is 'the easy way out' because you've never had to do it yourself.  Once you've looked into someone's eye and ended everything they are by your own hands, regardless of how justified you think it may be, THEN come tell me just how easy it is.


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## HalfEatenPie (Dec 14, 2014)

http://www.reddit.com/live/u2pwph99rvy6

^ Reddit Live Update Thread.  

Thanks to @Steven F for providing the live coverage up til now.


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## trewq (Dec 14, 2014)

3 people have come out with hands up. Two out front door, one out fire exit. Still unknown how or why they were allowed to exit.


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## Nett (Dec 15, 2014)

Two more now.


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## MannDude (Dec 15, 2014)

What is that that are demanding? Everyone is unharmed so far, correct?

EDIT: Clearly I've only skimmed headlines/discussion.


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## trewq (Dec 15, 2014)

MannDude said:


> What is that that are demanding? Everyone is unharmed so far, correct?
> 
> EDIT: Clearly I've only skimmed headlines/discussion.


No demands, not aware of motive, no one is hurt. 5 people in total are out, one in hospital in satisfactory and stable condition.


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## bellicus (Dec 15, 2014)

trewq said:


> No demands, not aware of motive, no one is hurt. 5 people in total are out, one in hospital in satisfactory and stable condition.


 There was a few demands made. It's been verified by a few other sources. NSW Won't comment on it.

https://twitter.com/mattdoran22/status/544383017347596288


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## Nick (Dec 15, 2014)

Steven F said:


> I'm sure that your years of training and experience in hostage situations is appreciated by the Australian government.


He's on the right track. Take a look at the Iranian Embassy siege in 1980. 6 armed men take 26 people hostage. SAS (would now be Commando's for counter-terrorism) take out 5 of the 6 armed men with none of the hostages being injured.


The Australian's have some pretty top notch special forces and they will come in if/when it's required.


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## MannDude (Dec 15, 2014)

bellicus said:


> There was a few demands made. It's been verified by a few other sources. NSW Won't comment on it.
> 
> https://twitter.com/mattdoran22/status/544383017347596288


Should have screenshot it, as it's now been removed.


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## bellicus (Dec 15, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Should have screenshot it, as it's now been removed.


NSW has asked news outlets to keep it off social media so. but here ya go.


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## Nett (Dec 15, 2014)

Watching PM's speech now.


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## Nick (Dec 15, 2014)

bellicus said:


> NSW has asked news outlets to keep it off social media so. but here ya go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you kind sir


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## blergh (Dec 15, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> You only think ending a life is 'the easy way out' because you've never had to do it yourself.  Once you've looked into someone's eye and ended everything they are by your own hands, regardless of how justified you think it may be, THEN come tell me just how easy it is.


I´m sorry, but that has to be this years most lulzy and pretentious reply. Congratulations you win nothing.


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## MartinD (Dec 15, 2014)

Steven F said:


> It's a general Jihadist flag that indicates absolutely no group or organization. Think what you want, but there is no link nor any indication to anyone backing this terrorist.





Steven F said:


> I'm sure that your years of training and experience in hostage situations is appreciated by the Australian government.





Steven F said:


> *How about we leave the tough decisions to the professionals*, because this is a serious matter with dozens (potentially hundreds) of lives at stake.


Can you please enlighten me as to the time you've spent in service, in counter-terrorism, intelligence services and of course, government? Oh, and what qualifies you as a professional, please.


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## eva2000 (Dec 15, 2014)

yeah scary stuff.. my sister's work place is a 5 minutes walk from Lindt Cafe !  Luckily she's safe

still 14+ hrs into the siege !


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## Steven F (Dec 15, 2014)

MartinD said:


> Can you please enlighten me as to the time you've spent in service, in counter-terrorism, intelligence services and of course, government? Oh, and what qualifies you as a professional, please.


Where did I ever suggest any course of action, other than to trust what the police and whomever was working on it were doing?


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## Steven F (Dec 15, 2014)

RTGHM said:


> I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier than sitting around trying to "talk the situation down"


https://twitter.com/CarolCNN?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2Fu2pwph99rvy6%2FLiveUpdate_a46f5b6e-8471-11e4-a7cb-22000b3d81d0%2F0&tw_i=544518841020473345&tw_p=tweetembed

Just so you understand. Hours of discussion by people with training and experience went into this and yet two people still died. Three are in serious condition, which is better than being in critical, but not great. I don't know the exact connotations here (at the Boston Bombing, it meant requiring an amputation, I believe). Imagine what might have happened if they had just jumped in and tried "take the building by force".

Police dressed in bomb gear (and their robots) have entered the building. Hopefully he did not bring real explosives.


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## RTGHM (Dec 15, 2014)

Steven F said:


> https://twitter.com/CarolCNN?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2Fu2pwph99rvy6%2FLiveUpdate_a46f5b6e-8471-11e4-a7cb-22000b3d81d0%2F0&tw_i=544518841020473345&tw_p=tweetembed
> 
> Just so you understand. Hours of discussion by people with training and experience went into this and yet two people still died. Three are in serious condition, which is better than being in critical, but not great. I don't know the exact connotations here (at the Boston Bombing, it meant requiring an amputation, I believe). Imagine what might have happened if they had just jumped in and tried "take the building by force".
> 
> Police dressed in bomb gear (and their robots) have entered the building. Hopefully he did not bring real explosives.


ProTip: The gunmen was already known to police before he did this - he was suspected to be terrorist.

Source: A contact with Sydney police


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## Steven F (Dec 15, 2014)

The gunmen, who I will not name, was a Sheikh who was out on bail for some very crazy sexual assault crimes.

He is now dead, as well as two hostages. They are investigating the causes of death.


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## Nick (Dec 15, 2014)

I think it's a good outcome however I don't believe the armed defenders were the right ones to go in. Their training is no where near as tough or rigorous as that of the special forces. The outcome could've been much worse.


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## Steven F (Dec 15, 2014)

Nick said:


> I think it's a good outcome however I don't believe the armed defenders were the right ones to go in. Their training is no where near as tough or rigorous as that of the special forces. The outcome could've been much worse.


They didn't storm the building because they wanted to. A gunshot was heard and a sniper in the Channel 7 office said "hostage down" into his microphone/radio and as I believe is protocol (once a hostage is injured/killed): they went in.

I'm waiting on more details, though, so I won't speculate about who killed whom (hostage taker or police bullets).

Edit (from Reddit):



My understanding of the situation, based on watching it live, news and police reports is that at about 2am a group of about 5 hostages made a break for it and got outside, the gunman shot at least one hostage inside the cafe, our version of SWAT had a breach plan in place for if they had to respond immediately, and they acted on it. The gunman died, 2 hostages died, one police officer got a stray shotgun pellet in his face but is in good condition, one woman was shot in the shoulder (no information on whether this was intentional or crossfire) and a few other minor injuries.


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## trewq (Dec 15, 2014)

Nick said:


> I think it's a good outcome however I don't believe the armed defenders were the right ones to go in. Their training is no where near as tough or rigorous as that of the special forces. The outcome could've been much worse.


From reports it was TAG East that breached. They are under the 2nd Commando Regiment.


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## Nick (Dec 15, 2014)

trewq said:


> From reports it was TAG East that breached. They are under the 2nd Commando Regiment.


Ah, makes sense. The article I read this morning just said police so I assumed armed defenders (which here, in NZ is just regular police that volunteer as armed defenders).


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## Nett (Dec 15, 2014)

Sydney Siege ends: police storm Martin Place cafe ...three dead...


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## drmike (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank goodness this mess ended mostly alright.  Could have been a lot worse.

Did sniper take the perp out or what?


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## Nett (Dec 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> Thank goodness this mess ended mostly alright.  Could have been a lot worse.
> 
> Did sniper take the perp out or what?


Watch these vids:


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## drmike (Dec 15, 2014)

Nett said:


> Watch these vids:


What the hell was I watching there  ?

Definitely some flash bang devices...  I swear real ammo there too ... and from big long arms, not toy handguns.

The hostages shot, I'd expect them and other injuries due to that crazy volume of firing by police.

Holy farking PTSD from the PD bumrush there.   That's some craziness.


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## trewq (Dec 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> What the hell was I watching there  ?
> 
> 
> Definitely some flash bang devices... I swear real ammo there too ... and from big long arms, not toy handguns.
> ...


You're watching one of our Tactical assault group (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_assault_group) units and NSW Police breach the Cafe almost immediately after one of the hostages was shot dead.


NSW Police have released a statement saying:


"A critical incident investigation has been launched after three people died and four others were injured during a police operation in Sydney's CBD this morning.


About 2:10am (AEDT) on Tuesday a confrontation occurred between police and a man who had taken a number of people hostage inside a cafe in Martin Place.


Shots were fired during the confrontation


As a result the 50-year-old man was pronounced dead after being taken to hospital.


Another man, aged 34, and a woman, aged 38, were pronounced dead after being taken to hospital.


Two women have been taken to hospital with non-life threatening injuries, while a male police officer suffered a non-life threatening would to his face from gunshot pellets and was taken to hospital.


Another woman was taken to hospital with a gunshot wound to her shoulder.


A 35-year-old woman was taken to hospital as a precaution."


"Monis was an Iranian cleric on bail for a string of violent offences, including being an accessory to the murder of his wife"


Overall it just seems like one nut job acting like a nut job. Now we have people asking why he was allowed out of jail when it was known he had violent tendencies and hated our country.


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## RTGHM (Dec 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> What the hell was I watching there  ?
> 
> Definitely some flash bang devices...  I swear real ammo there too ... and from big long arms, not toy handguns.
> 
> ...


Sounds like AR-15 assault rifles, I saw 3 flash bangs it looked like - not an explosive expert or anything, just observation.


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## Nett (Dec 15, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stun_grenade



RTGHM said:


> Sounds like AR-15 assault rifles, I saw 3 flash bangs it looked like - not an explosive expert or anything, just observation.


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## Varcoe (Dec 15, 2014)

This is getting out of hand.. ISIS are a bunch of cowards.. I hope a woman was the one to put a bullet in that assholes head, that way he doesn't get into his 'paradise' with '7 virgins'.


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## drmike (Dec 15, 2014)

Varcoe said:


> This is getting out of hand.. ISIS are a bunch of cowards.. I hope a woman was the one to put a bullet in that assholes head, that way he doesn't get into his 'paradise' with '7 virgins'.


40 virgins....

Unsure what sort of religion induces folks with a lure of extreme numbers of virgins.  That sounds like a f'n horror film to me.  All that nagging emotional baggage.  Bad trip through hell. Show me the path to the experienced ladies...

ISIS is just more government sponsored horrors.  Which little po-dunk state over in the Middle East is behind their funding in conjunction with intelligence apparatus?  

All those alleged 9-11 hijackers and how many were Arabians living under the Saud family rule?  Most.

We ought to upset the bizarre carts in the market and kick the Saud's asses.   Time for regime change there.  Oh but the mighty toolbag of the US won't dare cause that would be energy war and dropping of the bullshit practice of buying oil by everyone in the reserve currency -  the US dollar.   That would most certainly sound the end to US reign, drive inflation to unseen levels even in Zimbabwe.

Yeah, but this moron formerly holding hostages,  doubt he had any affiliation with anyone.  Just another loose canon misfiring.


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## RTGHM (Dec 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> 40 virgins....
> 
> Unsure what sort of religion induces folks with a lure of extreme numbers of virgins.  That sounds like a f'n horror film to me.  All that nagging emotional baggage.  Bad trip through hell. Show me the path to the experienced ladies...
> 
> ...


"I must warn you Americans, the gun's and ammunition you supply us, will one day be used against you"

A famous terrorist said something along those lines, can you guess who?


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## Nick (Dec 15, 2014)

drmike said:


> What the hell was I watching there  ?
> 
> 
> Definitely some flash bang devices...  I swear real ammo there too ... and from big long arms, not toy handguns.
> ...


Would've been a lot of supressive fire just to make that coward inside hide while it gave the police a chance to get inside and get people out as fast as possible.


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## drmike (Dec 15, 2014)

RTGHM said:


> "I must warn you Americans, the gun's and ammunition you supply us, will one day be used against you"
> 
> A famous terrorist said something along those lines, can you guess who?


Would that have been CIA operative Tim Ossman (sp? Osman).... or as I prefer, Osama Bin Lyin'g?  The man who allegedly rests with fishies.


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## vRozenSch00n (Dec 17, 2014)

ISIS is only a tool for _divide et impera_ it looks like it represent a specific religion, but if you do your research well from the time of Saud al Faisal, Gamal Naser, Menachem Begin and the like, or from Sayyid Qutb to Osama, Osama to Hillary, or from Kabul to Beirut between the 70's and 80's, you will see a larger issue involving a single course: 

Oil, Monetary, Power


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## drmike (Dec 17, 2014)

@vRozenSch00n   



Oil + Monetary Policy = Power.

... and only because it goes back to the Nixon Whitehouse when that clown unhinged / unbacked the US Dollar from precious metals and struck up deal with make the US dollar the petrol exchange dollar - the currency in white all oil deals had to be done from 1972(?) until folks like Saddam Hussein and other more recently began transacting deals in other currencies and notably, gold.

Look at the gang up job currently ongoing with plummeting oil price per barrel.  Great relief years overdue for say end consumers in the US - who protects the Saud oil fields.  Serious money gasoline costs have been inflicting on average US household and part of why people are traveling less, not moving, etc.

How to kill a Russian economy with a pipe dream?  Have Saud turn up the drilling rate, dump cheaper oil onto market, make Russian oil interests less valuable.

At the same time it drives shale drilling companies down the drain and whole natural gas exploration business suddenly non viable.  Which drives out domestic energy independence.

Which perplexes the gas out of me... Because the Bush Whitehouse was all about Texas money + refinieries while bolstering their family/friends in the Sauds to fill the tankers with Saud crude.

The Obama-sam-alama Whitehouse is all about, well, killing domestic coal, domestic oil, etc.  If it isn't green, they are about composting that economy.  But they went back to their friends the Sauds for a #2 dump of crude.  Which is taking out "enemies" on both sides - domestic energy producers and Rusky.

What is going to befall the US economy from all this price crash on oil?  Well vast majority of those shale plays and companies were funded by funny financial instruments.  There is no way those companies are going to be able to pay up.  So  if prices stay this low, whole bunch of risk funding is going insolvent and mass bankruptcies.  Will spell end to shale industry.  They will join the coal miners who are becoming darn near extinct as Appalachia lingers in extreme poverty.


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## DomainBop (Dec 17, 2014)

> ISIS is just more government sponsored horrors.  Which little po-dunk state over in the Middle East is behind their funding in conjunction with intelligence apparatus?
> 
> All those alleged 9-11 hijackers and how many were Arabians living under the Saud family rule?  Most.
> 
> We ought to upset the bizarre carts in the market and kick the Saud's asses.   Time for regime change there.  Oh but the mighty toolbag of the US won't dare cause *that would be energy war* and dropping of the bullshit practice of buying oil by everyone in the reserve currency -  the US dollar.


Financial backing for ISIS is rumored to come mainly from a few of the gulf emirates including the Saudis....and yes most of the 9/11 hijackers (and Bin Laden, whose family were close friends of the Bushes and were safely whisked out of the US after 9/11) were Saudis.  Article in the UK's Independent alleging Saudi backing for ISIS: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

I believe an energy war was already declared by the Saudis (with US backing/approval) around September: flood the market and drive down prices in an attempt to cripple the Russian and Iranian economies.  Derivative traders on Wall Street are happy now and making mucho dollars but the collapse of oil prices could backfire on the US/Saudis and lead to another economic implosion.  Smaller oil companies in the US are already having trouble getting financing as a result of the price collapse and a wave of bankruptcies that could have a domino effect on the economy is probably not far off.

===========

On another note, Australia blocked an attempt by Iran in 2000 to have the hostage taker Mans Haron Monis extradited to Iran to be tried on fraud charges.



> "We have repeatedly communicated to the Australian government the hostage-taker's psychological and criminal background since he fled Iran two decades ago and sought refuge in Australia, and that country was fully aware of his identity," state-run IRINN TV news channel quoted foreign ministry spokeswoman Marzieh Afkham as saying on Tuesday.


http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/12/iran-extradition-sydney-attacker-refused-2014121752658394786.html


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## TekStorm - Walter (Dec 18, 2014)

The attacked on the innocent are getting out of control, governments shouldnt talk or try to settle situation with words. People that take hostages should be hit hard and fast, those people only understand force and if we dont give them no wiggle room then they will be less likely to do it. Hit them hard and fast before they can blink and that will be the end of it.


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## vRozenSch00n (Dec 22, 2014)

drmike said:


> ... snip...
> 
> What is going to befall the US economy from all this price crash on oil?  Well vast majority of those shale plays and companies were funded by funny financial instruments.  There is no way those companies are going to be able to pay up.  So  if prices stay this low, whole bunch of risk funding is going insolvent and mass bankruptcies.  Will spell end to shale industry.  They will join the coal miners who are becoming darn near extinct as Appalachia lingers in extreme poverty.


I think is a little to late for US economy (or any IMF countries) to go back to metal based system as the "funny financial instruments" (I like that term  ) has gone to deep in all aspect of life. 

When Gandalfi of Lyberia declared that he will only exchange their oil with gold or EUR, and he encouraged African countries to use a single African currency (just like what European countries did) then he became a major threat in the middle east to US and SA, and he must be eliminated 

Several countries that uses metal based currencies (you know who they are) have become new threats and can cause a major problem to the US economy. In short the US government has to find other ways to spread the risk to prepare for the rainy days when the funny financial instruments collapse. In the past, this is the perfect time when Adnan Kasogi enters the stage and save the day.


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