# Some strong words from none other than LowEndAdmin



## Francisco (May 22, 2013)

Hello everyone!

Our fearless ex-leader dropped me an email earlier tonight with this closing tid bit that he was OK with me sharing.



> If what you've said is true, I'm quite surprised at the events and how quick Joel turned the site to ColoCrossing. It would be March last year when CC took over the hosting after extended DDoS? Sounds like I've passed the sites onto the wrong hands. Explicitly not wanting a corporation to take over and this happened.
> 
> It's good that a new site has been setup for the refugees. May the spirit lives on.


He did a write up on G+ confirming what I've been saying all along, that Joel didn't pay a dime for the site.

https://plus.google.com/103353758302156595150/posts/QTK9mn6qrks



It's a good read and it's nice to hear from him.

He passes word that, thankfully, no dingos have eaten his babies.

/me tips hat

EDIT - Thanks Mun!

Francisco


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

Does anyone remain in contact with Joel? It'd be interesting to hear his take too.


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## yomero (May 22, 2013)

I came here and the first thing to read was this.

I am happy to know that he still remembers us n_n

Thanks for sharing.


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## sv01 (May 22, 2013)

OMG! let ask him to join here


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

Someone should X-post this over to LET.


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## wlanboy (May 22, 2013)

Chief will not answer. I mean - if this is true - what should he say?


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> Chief will not answer. I mean - if this is true - what should he say?


"I always wanted to open a kite surfing business and Colocrossing offered me enough money to live my dream."

I'm not mad at the guy. He's human. He's doing what he wants. Just hate seeing it all go down in private and not being able to get an answer until shit hit the fan and they got outed.


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## wlanboy (May 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Someone should X-post this over to LET.


Done:

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/10671/some-strong-words-from-non-other-than-lowendadmin


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

Ah, I can't view that thread without being logged in? WTF.


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## wlanboy (May 22, 2013)

What? I post it to "offtopic". That was a public forum...


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## Mun (May 22, 2013)

Manndude you are Curtis right? If so use dotdeb for debian and nginx setups. 

Dotdeb.org is the sight, and have really good and up to date builds. 

FYI I run a mirror at http://cdn.content-network.net/mirror/dotdeb/


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (May 22, 2013)

This is really weird. That link can't be seen unless you log in...


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## mikho (May 22, 2013)

This saddens me to read.


I'm speechless, all that is left is the bad taste in my mouth regarding Joel. That man lost my respect.


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## Mun (May 22, 2013)

Someone mind editing Francisco's post so they can just view the image.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

FUCK LET.  The post @wlanboy made is not public visible.  They are hiding it or flagged it.

So I typed the screencap up.  

Can someone else go post it?

--- snip ---

LowEndAdmin IsHere
Shared publicly - 12:26 AM

I think I am a bit late to the party, of all the mess of LowEndTalk getting repeatedly hacked and the whole ownership with ColoCrossing thingy.

Gotta say that it saddens me a little. It shouldn't -- I've abandoned that ship early last year and don't really want to get attached to it. I thought I've handed it over to some trusted hands. Maybe. Maybe not.

I guess I can at least clarify some of the mis-information here, especially when I expressed my intention to retire back in January 2012.

First of all, Jon Biloh of ColoCrossing did approach me (in am email on 22 Jan 2012) about acquiring the site.  I rejected the offer, stating the reason that I hoped LowEndBox can stay independent, and then told him I've found someone suitable, i.e. Joel aka Chief, which I did so in email exchanges with him on 20 Jan 2012.

There seems to be a mis-conception that I've sold LowEndBox/LowEndTalk to Joel. Well, NO. No money has been exchanged. In fact I've allowed him to continue operating on the Linode that I've paid for.  I was simply passing the baton -- here's the passwords and the domain EPP, take good care of it! Some people might think it's mad by "giving away" two websites with 500k page views a month combined.  But hey, a lot of people don't treat money as their priority in life.

Well. Not saying Chief doesn't have a right to sell the website. He has managed to continue growing the websites, and all power to him if he managed to find a buyer who is willing to pay good money for it.  I really have nothing to say really, since the site is no longer mine.

Just a little bit sad. That's all.


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## Mun (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed
 Could have just used my pic instead


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

I say post the pic and post the text.  Let the search engines pick the words up 

@wlanboy, push LET and topic and why it is not visible.   I find such censorship (as it appears to be) by Colocrossing absolutely offensive.


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## wlanboy (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> FUCK LET.  The post @wlanboy made is not public visible.  They are hiding it or flagged it.


It is just the category. I moved the thread to "general" and now it is visible for everyone.


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## rds100 (May 22, 2013)

Can i say it again? Joel Theodore is a LowEndDick.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

Francisco said:


> I'm quite surprised at the events and how quick Joel turned the site to ColoCrossing. It would be March last year when CC took over the hosting after extended DDoS?


 

So @Francisco, where's your horse race money placed on the date when Colocrossing took over Lowendtalk and Lowendbox?

Appears as I've been saying, February take over by Joel (given sites for free to continue the community). 

March 5th - 12th (roughly) DDoS.

Then immediately thereafter, the sites move from Linode to Colocrossing.

Traffic graphs from Alexa show a curious March or thereabout upward trajectory.

The options for CC take over are:

1. The date Joel took possession (February 2012).

2. After the DDoS (which also took down WHT) (March 2012)

3. When BuySellAds started running on LET (September - October 2012)

4  Last week prior to the hacks (May 2013).

My money, #3.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> It is just the category. I moved the thread to "general" and now it is visible for everyone.



So Offtopic is blocked unless logged in.  That is rather odd.   Not censorship after-all.  Thank goodness.


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (May 22, 2013)

It was visible for me and I'm not even logged in.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

Well it is public now that the category was changed by @wlanboy.

I just don't understand on a public forums having categories or threads that are not public.  Especially general whatever community posts.


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## Francisco (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> So @Francisco, where's your horse race money placed on the date when Colocrossing took over Lowendtalk and Lowendbox?
> 
> Appears as I've been saying, February take over by Joel (given sites for free to continue the community).
> 
> ...


CC has said on multiple occasions that they've owned the site for upwards/over of a year.

Joel got the first month or two free when he signed on with CC to trial the service. When the CC ad showed up on the homepage was likely when it happened.

Francisco


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## matt[scrdspd] (May 22, 2013)

Good to hear from LEA at least. I have to admit tho, it was a bit sad to read that.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

Francisco said:


> CC has said on multiple occasions that they've owned the site for upwards/over of a year.


 

I am not even going to try to source or find their quotes but I remembered that too.

March 2012 move to CC - May 2013 hack attacks = 14 months.  One year, two months, tops.

Now if they owned it all this time, why was "Joel" lingering and doing things?  Seems weird, unless they had a deal he operates the sites to the public so they didn't get gut punched by the community and after a set time, they cut him the big check or the rest of the money due.

Can anyone confirm when they believe they last talked to the real "Joel"? @Francisco.... ???


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## Francisco (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Now if they owned it all this time, why was "Joel" lingering and doing things?


Figure head?

Joel was in the picture way up until January for me at least. He talked to me and would chat about threads, etc.

CC stated the date in their big WHT thread.

Francisco


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## mikho (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Can anyone confirm when they believe they last talked to the real "Joel"? @Francisco.... ???


Last time I ever heard from Joel was Oct 11th. about something on the frontpage of LEB.

Guess he was "proud" of what he posted back then.


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## vRozenSch00n (May 22, 2013)

I miss LEA very much. I'm sad to see how Joel took it for granted the livelihood of the whole community.

@Francisco I'd rather see you took over LET at that time as I know from your posts in LEB/LET and other forums that you are more than capable to manage it. 

I hope this community will be able to bring back the livelihood and spirit of old LET/LEB under LEA and his original idea of a fair community forum, and I hereby thank  @MannDude for taking the initiative to build this forum together with all concerned community members.


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## ElliotJ (May 22, 2013)

Here's how I personally read it:


Joel was given the site on the idea that the community would be in 'good hands'; not controlled by a corporation. This may have been true initially, the monetary potential had not been truly shown, and Joel's intentions may have truly been good.
Shortly afterwards, the DDoSing began, and Joel begins to feel the pressure of responsibly managing the community, and the costs involved with protecting the community from the attacks.
ColoCrossing then step in to relieve Joel from the stresses, and as a bonus gives him a large payout.

The real question is whether other people would've acted similarly - Can everyone really say that they wouldn't be tempted by ColoCrossing's offer if they were in Joel's position?

That's not to say that I condone Joel's actions, primarily because of the way he handled it. If the ColoCrossing takeover was announced more publicly with reasoning, then perhaps the community would've responded more empathically. Perhaps some people would've left in protest, but their relationship with the community wouldn't have been as damaged.

Anyhow, if LowEndAdmin does get around to reading this - Thanks for building up the community, the true 'assets' of any forum.

It doesn't take much to monetize a high traffic site, but to form a solid community is much, much more difficult.


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## eva2000 (May 22, 2013)

Sad to hear that LEA is sad... this news is what sealed my decision to register here ...

that and to reserve my username


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## marrco (May 22, 2013)

vRozenSch00n said:


> bring back the livelihood and spirit of old LET/LEB under LEA


 
That would mean to have back as active contributors many of the old members that left that place when the technical level of the contributions (and i'd say age of the users) went down too much. In the last few months i've enjoyed reading so-called providers asking for help editing a file using vi or calling themselves expert sysadmins when 19yo. That place has gone from a technical board to a place where kids can buy a cheap box to bitorrent and one-boy-providers call themselves companies and ddos each others.

That board is long time dead. Let's just hope the new ownership is able to create a better place, or that this board will grow with different rules and less drama.


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## gsrdgrdghd (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Well it is public now that the category was changed by @wlanboy.
> 
> I just don't understand on a public forums having categories or threads that are not public.  Especially general whatever community posts.


It's probably so that threads that contain a lot of speculation/diffarmation can be moved to the Offtopic section to prevent them from being index by Google.

Anyway it's good to hear from LEA again after such a long time and see that he shares the comunity's opinion on the current state of LEB/LET.

When was the last verified account of Joel posting/saying something?


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## Amitz (May 22, 2013)

Who ddosed LET/B that time to convince Joel to hand over the site? That would be interesting to know...


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## gsrdgrdghd (May 22, 2013)

Amitz said:


> Who ddosed LET/B that time to convince Joel to hand over the site? That would be interesting to know...


Supposedly Constantionos, the BuyVM people might be able to tell you more since they worked on it at that time


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 22, 2013)

gsrdgrdghd said:


> Supposedly Constantionos, the BuyVM people might be able to tell you more since they worked on it at that time


Constantinos hasn't acted of his own accord in quite some time, his involvement was that of a tool being used.  Good luck finding out who was pulling those strings of his, though.


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## JDiggity (May 22, 2013)

*@**Francisco*,



mikho said:


> Last time I ever heard from Joel was Oct 11th. about something on the frontpage of LEB.
> 
> Guess he was "proud" of what he posted back then.


Wasn't this the limestone spam incident?


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## jarland (May 22, 2013)

'ElliotJ said:


> Can everyone really say that they wouldn't be tempted by ColoCrossing's offer if they were in Joel's position?




I can honestly say that I would not be tempted. If you want money, the traffic alone tells you a little bit about what kind of money you could generate from it. I suppose medical emergency could be a different situation, that's about it. Even then you give people a heads up. You don't have to be silent about a sale. There's no NDA for "Hey guys I think I might have to sell the site."


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 22, 2013)

jarland said:


> There's no NDA for "Hey guys I think I might have to sell the site."


 

Heh, given the quite shady NDA Jeremiah was issued, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the price jumped up a bit to include keeping things quiet.


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## JDiggity (May 22, 2013)

by the way we should ask that sysadmin since he has contact with Jerimiah to have jerimiah comment on the chicago vps hack.


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 22, 2013)

24khost said:


> by the way we should ask that sysadmin since he has contact with Jerimiah to have jerimiah comment on the chicago vps hack.


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## Daniel (May 22, 2013)

What does ColoCrossing have to gain by being nobs?


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## jarland (May 22, 2013)

Daniel said:


> What does ColoCrossing have to gain by being nobs?


 

A few pennies is nothing. A few billion pennies is something. They may be scraping the bottom of the barrel, but this is a pretty big barrel, and locking the whole thing down for themselves is certainly financially beneficial. To those with something to lose from losing LEB, I suggest playing in a new division.


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## JDiggity (May 22, 2013)

Well Chris wants the answer but can't get it.  So not sure Chris would have a problem with it.


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## mikho (May 22, 2013)

24khost said:


> Wasn't this the limestone spam incident?


Haven't LEB to confirm but that could be the reason.


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## wlanboy (May 22, 2013)




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## Licensecart (May 22, 2013)

I feel sorry for LowEndAdmin, his fantastic hard work has just been destroyed.


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## vampireJ (May 22, 2013)

Joel / Chief failed us. Since LET / LEB was just passed over to him- it would have been the perfect oppurtunity to turn the website into 100% community driven.


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## A Jump From Let (May 22, 2013)

eva2000 said:


> Sad to hear that LEA is sad... this news is what sealed my decision to register here ...
> 
> that and to reserve my username





gsrdgrdghd said:


> Supposedly Constantionos, the BuyVM people might be able to tell you more since they worked on it at that time


I've joined here  

http://vpsboard.com/index.php?/topic/277-decided-to-reserve-my-username-like-eva2000-and-gsrdgrdghd/


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## Francisco (May 22, 2013)

How does he even remember his login on LET? >_>

Francisco


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## mud (May 22, 2013)

@LEA

May the force be with you

That's all I have to say


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## SeriesN (May 22, 2013)

Francisco said:


> How does he even remember his login on LET? >_>
> 
> 
> Francisco


Last pass!!!


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

ElliotJ said:


> responsibly managing the community, and the costs involved with protecting the community from the attacks.


 

Here's the problem with that idea, Lowendbox had revenue and ads since 2009.  So Joel would have been handed that account and income.  He wasn't penniless when the March 2012 DDoS happened. 

Like now, there were tons of able bodied folks in the community who would have given services, network protection, etc. until the sites could have paid for such.  But again, LEB was bringing in money -- how much? I am totally unsure.

Doesn't it seem awfully suspect that the site ends up in Joel's hands and in under a month, it gets DDoS'd then goes over to Colocrossing?  It's very problematic, because CC doesn't have any DDoS protection ability at last check, here more than a year later.  Anyone could have hosted the site and put Cloudflare up front.    That's nothing hard, exotic or per se expensive.

Joel was either a pawn from day one or Colocrossing attacked Lowend  sites to get their fangs into the site and take it over.

Personally I hope Joel's parachute 'malfunctions' for a few seconds next kite go round.  The boy needs a serious bit of mental reorganization and a lesson in both honesty and humility.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)




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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

24khost said:


> Wasn't this the limestone spam incident?


 

I am not sure if this was the Limestone spamming incident.  But, I am pretty sure if you dig up those threads, you are bond to see certain someones saying how Jon Biloh and Colocrossing engaged in the same "sales" spam tactics.

Sure makes the issue and its inflation in the lowend sites more curious doesn't it?  Colocrossing stood to benefit from bashing Limestone and did so via "Joel" or "Chief".  I saw more pawning going on there.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)




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## Epidrive (May 22, 2013)

Joel a.k.a. Chief who was never caught active.


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

Simple3x said:


> Joel a.k.a. Chief who was never caught active.


He'd come around everynow and then, I kept an eye on the 'Activity' feature of the forum. It'd show all the accounts that the moderators activated. You'd see that everynow and then Chief would activate one account. Later that day, Liam would come in and activate the rest of the backlog. I always kept an eye on those random accounts Chief would activate as I thought it was odd he'd just activate one account and then leave without activating the rest of the backlog.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I always kept an eye on those random accounts Chief would activate as I thought it was odd he'd just activate one account and then leave without activating the rest of the backlog.


 

Now, geez, why would someone randomly log in and do seemingly a single task, approving a certain account and leave?

Clearly, this wasn't Joel, but instead someone who had other accounts and would switch personalities to do the approval.


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Clearly, this wasn't Joel, but instead someone who had other accounts and would switch personalities to do the approval.


I don't know about that. They had accounts that could/would activate others without it showing up in the activity log. Like Adam Ng/Adam Jackson's account.


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## drmike (May 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I don't know about that. They had accounts that could/would activate others without it showing up in the activity log. Like Adam Ng/Adam Jackson's account.


It's possible you are right or perhaps I am wrong.  But remember the end signs on LET.  Like Sysadmin approving Jon Biloh


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## concerto49 (May 22, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I don't know about that. They had accounts that could/would activate others without it showing up in the activity log. Like Adam Ng/Adam Jackson's account.


We still haven't gotten anything official on this though. Who's Adam? Who's Kevin?


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## MannDude (May 22, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> We still haven't gotten anything official on this though. Who's Adam? Who's Kevin?


Adam Ng / Adam Jackson is a kid, well, he just turned 18. Kevin Hillstrand is his alias. He lives in California, not in NYC as he'll lead you to believe. Thats why I'd pressure CVPS_Chris to post photos his 'office' with some of his staff, knowing that he'd never deliver and knowing that his 'local employee' lives on the other side of the country.


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