# Utility bills? Do they still exist?



## rds100 (Dec 23, 2014)

As you know some hosts ask for a scanned utility bill as a way to verify your address. But i wondered - what kind of utility bills do people have?

I for instance don't receive any utility bills on paper. I pay the electricity and water bills online. I don't have a phone in my name, but pay my wife's phone bill online too. Even my bank statements are online, i don't receive those on paper either.

So do you guys still receive utility bills on paper? Do these ever exist? I imagine it varies by country...


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## MannDude (Dec 23, 2014)

Water and electric bill are still issued to me on paper.

Electric bill is addressed to my landlord actually, so I just give him cash money. Water bill I don't pay each month and usually wait 2 or 3 months until I get the shutoff notice and pay it online in one lump sum since it's usually only like $30/mo.

Aside from that, most bills are done online. Car insurance and stuff is paperless. I do all my banking online though I still get monthly statements from my credit union that I never open and instead just rip up or cut up and toss out. I wouldn't mind a paper shredder though...


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## fastboxes (Dec 23, 2014)

Here even if you pay your bill online you can still download a PDF version of your utility bill.


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## Steven F (Dec 23, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Water and electric bill are still issued to me on paper.
> 
> Electric bill is addressed to my landlord actually, so I just give him cash money. Water bill I don't pay each month and usually wait 2 or 3 months until I get the shutoff notice and pay it online in one lump sum since it's usually only like $30/mo.
> 
> Aside from that, most bills are done online. Car insurance and stuff is paperless. I do all my banking online though I still get monthly statements from my credit union that I never open and instead just rip up or cut up and toss out. I wouldn't mind a paper shredder though...


Why not set up auto-pay?


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## drmike (Dec 23, 2014)

I refuse to accept digital billing.

I get attempts to lure me into such all the time.  Get $10 credit for going paperless. Blah!

Paperless means things can and will change.  Like  policies elsewhere online, so will companies you owe money, if you let them.  Me I have the papers to refer to and bust them if I am feeling ambitious.  The hall of records for their misdeeds.

Pretty easy to slide in all sorts of skimming in a digital-only billing arrangement.  Utilities and related IOU debt companies aren't exactly the most honest lot of folks.   Regulation happened due to their insanity on many fronts.

PS: I read the title hoping to read about some way to eliminate by electric bill.  Oh well!


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## serverian (Dec 23, 2014)

drmike said:


> I refuse to accept digital billing.


1990s called.


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## KuJoe (Dec 23, 2014)

I try to switch to paperless for everything but my wife still likes the bills to be mailed to us for our own records. Every single thing that has a paperless (online) bill offers me a PDF version that I can download/print out easily but most of the time I can just use my driver's license as proof for purchasing online services if needed (only ever needed to do this twice, one for a dedicated server I ordered while spending a week at Cisco's office in Georgia and the other was when my Battle.Net account got hacked and they needed proof to update my e-mail address).


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## DomainBop (Dec 23, 2014)

> As you know some hosts ask for a scanned utility bill as a way to verify your address. But i wondered - what kind of utility bills do people have?


Almost all hosts will accept a .pdf of your online statements (utility or bank). 

The only company I've ever dealt with that wouldn't accept an online statement was Moneybookers/Skrill.  If you don't have a paper bank statement they require you to fill out this form and have it signed by your bank (at least for US customers they do).


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## RTGHM (Dec 23, 2014)

All bills I get in todays age is electronic. If a company asks me for it, I just print it, take a photo, send it.


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## Joshua-Epic (Dec 23, 2014)

I myself enjoy online billing. Less clutter in the mail to deal with and makes it easier for my accountant to keep track of.


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## rds100 (Dec 23, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Water bill I don't pay each month and usually wait 2 or 3 months until I get the shutoff notice and pay it online in one lump sum since it's usually only like $30/mo.


Isn't this bad for your "credit"? I know you americans are very dependent on your credit score.


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## drmike (Dec 23, 2014)

serverian said:


> 1990s called.


Oh, I indeed remember the 1990's   Heck I remember decades before the 90's.


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## iWF-Jacob (Dec 23, 2014)

The only bill I still receive via snail mail is the electric bill; that being said all of my bills that I receive online you're able to create a PDF of..


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## KuJoe (Dec 23, 2014)

rds100 said:


> Isn't this bad for your "credit"? I know you americans are very dependent on your credit score.


Credit is good for certain things but it's not critical unless you depend on credit. I'm not sure if utilities are reported to credit agencies though, maybe if you have an outstanding balance and then move you might but I've never heard of utilities impacting your credit score (good or bad). Then again, I've read that cell phone bills are reported so maybe utilities are also.


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## TruvisT (Dec 23, 2014)

drmike said:


> I refuse to accept digital billing.
> 
> I get attempts to lure me into such all the time.  Get $10 credit for going paperless. Blah!
> 
> ...


Same. I like paper trails for my record sakes. Can't touch local copies.

I actually know many people, several as our clients, who hate anything electronic wise.

On a side note, which hosts have ever asked for a utility bill?


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## nunim (Dec 23, 2014)

TruvisT said:


> ... On a side note, which hosts have ever asked for a utility bill?


Pretty sure OVH asks for a utility bill to remove VAT for non-euro residents, however you're able to substitute something else.

Almost all of my bills are electronic, I've begun moving my wife over to online payment for her cards and whatnot but she's old school in that area and likes to pay the bills in person


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## danielm (Dec 23, 2014)

nunim said:


> Pretty sure OVH asks for a utility bill to remove VAT for non-euro residents, however you're able to substitute something else.


They asked for one when I ordered one of their cheap .ovh domains and they didnt seem to like that what I gave them was digital, not paper.


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## MannDude (Dec 23, 2014)

Steven F said:


> Why not set up auto-pay?


For the same reason I don't do VPS payment subscriptions. I just like being in control and paying for things when I want to pay for them. It helps me comprehend and know exactly where my money is going and lets me see the bill before my money just disappears, which lets me catch any errors that may exist.



rds100 said:


> Isn't this bad for your "credit"? I know you americans are very dependent on your credit score.


No idea. I don't have any credit cards and last time I tried to check my credit score there was insufficient data to even populate a score. If I can't afford it with cash, then I don't buy it.


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## trewq (Dec 23, 2014)

MannDude said:


> No idea. I don't have any credit cards and last time I tried to check my credit score there was insufficient data to even populate a score. If I can't afford it with cash, then I don't buy it.


Won't that be a bad thing when you need a mortgage for a house?


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## Joshua-Epic (Dec 23, 2014)

trewq said:


> Won't that be a bad thing when you need a mortgage for a house?


It very well could be but then again, when you depend on cash instead of credit, it makes for more responsible spending habits. I myself only have 1 credit card for personal and only 1 for business. If we cant pay for whatever we want upfront, its not something we absolutely need.


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## MannDude (Dec 23, 2014)

trewq said:


> Won't that be a bad thing when you need a mortgage for a house?


Yeah, probably. Though I'm trying to find land to purchase on contract and I'm not really interested in buying a house in the burbs. Would rather rent cheaply like I do now, purchase land on contract or pay all out in cash, and build something on it over time. That's pretty much all I've wanted to do since a teenager, though I would have thought at 18 I'd have done that by 25. At 26, I still haven't but I've not lost sight of what I want.

Alternatively I could just hit up my credit union that I use for banking. Been a member there for years. Never have had to take a loan out, but I would like to think that if I needed it, that they would be willing to assist and help me.

I just like the idea of being debt free. No student loans, no car payment, no mortgage, etc. I have tried to get a 'starter card' in the past to use for groceries that I could pay off, but even the "anyone can get one of these cards" have declined me, and I assume it's do to lack of credit score. Unsure why it's non-existent as I've had several utilities in my name over the years that have been paid for. Figured if it was bad, it'd show a bad score. But when checking, it's as if I've never had anything in my name. Not really complaining though.


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## drmike (Dec 24, 2014)

danielm said:


> They asked for one when I ordered one of their cheap .ovh domains and they didnt seem to like that what I gave them was digital, not paper.


OVH wants:

1. Your real ID scanned in.

2. Recent utility bill (i.e. within 3 months).

Worst part is they want you to send that to them out in the open, via email.


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## drmike (Dec 24, 2014)

MannDude said:


> I just like the idea of being debt free. No student loans, no car payment, no mortgage, etc. I have tried to get a 'starter card' in the past to use for groceries that I could pay off, but even the "anyone can get one of these cards" have declined me, and I assume it's do to lack of credit score. Unsure why it's non-existent as I've had several utilities in my name over the years that have been paid for. Figured if it was bad, it'd show a bad score. But when checking, it's as if I've never had anything in my name. Not really complaining though.


Your issue is / was simply lack of credit history.

So many folks in their trendy fashion make credit out to be something everyone does.  This is not best indication of the situation and bias, but it's something:



> A Gallup survey conducted in April 2014 found that the average number of credit cards Americans say they carry is at an all-time low. According to the Gallup survey, the average number of cards owned by all Americans -- including those with no credit cards -- is 2.6. Among Americans with credit cards, the average number of cards owned is 3.7. The percentage of Americans who have no credit cards rose to 29 percent in 2014, up from 22 percent in 2008.2


They have 29% of US population (assumed to be 29% of the adult population) not using credit cards in 2014.

Latest Census data puts US population at:

316,128,839

Of that population those < 18 years of age and likely not credit worthy or bearing credit total:

19,868,088 (under 5 in age)

20,570,581 (5-9 in age)

20,650,454 (10-14 in age)

========================

61,089,123 people too young to have credit.

This does not include the 15-19 age group which adds:

21,158,964   ...  MORE.. Obviously 18-19 year olds are doing the credit thing.

If we take the minor age population and compare to rest we have:

61,089,123 vs. 316,128,839

= 19.34% of the population not able to have credit and on top of that throw some big chunk of 21.158 million who are age fringe group.  Should push us up percentage wise.  Right there excluding 1 out of 5 people in US population at the door due to age 

Now we have the remaining value:

316,128,839 total population - 61,089,123 (underage minors) = 255,039,716 adult population with note about the 15-19 year olds not being factored in 

255,039,719 people which we'll flat out eliminate 15-19 group from 

-

21,158,964 

===========

233,880,755 left as adults

We then want to say 29% of this audience (which is skewed since we just eliminated 18-19 year old, but that age group is laggards and not real friendly and endorsing of credit).

So 29% of 233,880,755 = 67,825,424 more people not in the credit racket.

We add up the folks not in the credit racket:

67,825,424 (29% opting out)

+ 61,089,123 (people too young to have credit)

===============

128,914,547 folks in the United States not dealing with credit.

Total US Population: 316,128,839

Those non credit: 128,914,547

=====

40.81% of the US population or 2+ out of 5 in the population who are not dealing in credit.

If we look at adult estimates:

233,880,755 adults with non credit rate of 29% = 67,825,424 adults in US without such.

Fact is, actual number of folks opting out of credit due to bank bailouts, stagnant wages, lack of fun money, most of a decade of economic hell in the US, etc. is likely higher than 29%.   

I know more and more people who leverage cards these days, that is use card for advantages  and promptly pay full racked up amount in Net 30 tops.  They don't need the cards, just helps with paper tracking and general cash flow/security.  These folks are erroneously counted in the heap of card holders although the industry really has problem making money from them and often shows them the door.

So as you see, the bailouts of credit institutions and fashionable aspect of banking  again is credible chunk of US population but very big, many many 10's of millions of folks who have nothing to do with such, some by choice/strategy, some by poverty, some by common sense, others due to age.


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## drmike (Dec 24, 2014)

MannDude said:


> Yeah, probably. Though I'm trying to find land to purchase on contract and I'm not really interested in buying a house in the burbs. Would rather rent cheaply like I do now, purchase land on contract or pay all out in cash, and build something on it over time. That's pretty much all I've wanted to do since a teenager, though I would have thought at 18 I'd have done that by 25. At 26, I still haven't but I've not lost sight of what I want.


Prior to very recent times (i.e. 1970's onwward) people didn't go to banks and lenders to buy homes / real estate ... Unless you were a developer / commercial property owner.

Home transactions were done with simple contracts and monthly payments to prior owner or entrepreneuring real estate folks dealing the property.

I once looked at buying a mansion, legitimate old mansion that was approaching half a million back then market offering where neighboring urban properties were $20-50k.  In talking with the seller, determined his family bought the property from local realtor who listed it 1960-1970's by paying the crazy sum of $50-100 a month.  It fetched per se real money back then.  But nothing like the devalued and inflated dollars of today.

I've bought multiple properties on land contracts, owner finance, related.

The gig, every time I do, these days, is to have a good chunk of the asking price in cash to put down.  Often I go in 20-25% at the door.  I don't touch overpriced ego properties.  Most of the reasons property goes for what it does (i.e. too much) in the US is due to suburban nonsense and "good schools".  High prices often are accompanied by high taxes that only go up.  See the State of New Jersey for example where homeowners long there, cannot afford the property taxes and are losing their homes.

So if you want to buy a rural property @ $80k (reasonable price in my world for a fairly robust and good shape property), looking to bring $16k to plunk down.

USDA does property loans for rural America and they have some low down to no down programs these days.  I've only looked at their paperwork and details in glance.  Why?  Because I have no interest in a 30 or 20 year mortgage.  I have a tolerance more of < 7 years total pay off.  Yes it jacks up monthly mortgage related pay amount quite a bit.  Better to compromise, have beans and rice diet and get through it in 7 years than juggling payment hell for what might be half your life with "traditional" mortgage.


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