# Considering the recent issues at LET/B, where can I find your disclosures of business relationships?



## NickM (May 15, 2013)

It would be nice if there was a disclosures page that details the staff members relationships with the various hosting companies.  For example, I notice that the server is hosted by BuyVM - is BuyVM providing that for free, or is someone paying for it?  Basically, I'm looking for transparency, and it should be easy to find (I couldn't find anything about it).


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## Mun (May 15, 2013)

I think buyvm is only in a DDOS mitigation capacity at this time.


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## mojeda (May 15, 2013)

Mun said:


> I think buyvm is only in a DDOS mitigation capacity at this time.


No, vpsboard is hosted on a BuyVM kvm, presumably with a ddos filtered IP and then using offloaded MySQL (BuyVM+).


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## SeriesN (May 15, 2013)

Curtis paid from his own pocket. I know fran likes to keep his wallet shut unless he is in vegas


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## MannDude (May 15, 2013)

NickM said:


> It would be nice if there was a disclosures page that details the staff members relationships with the various hosting companies.  For example, I notice that the server is hosted by BuyVM - is BuyVM providing that for free, or is someone paying for it?  Basically, I'm looking for transparency, and it should be easy to find (I couldn't find anything about it).





Mun said:


> I think buyvm is only in a DDOS mitigation capacity at this time.





mojeda said:


> No, vpsboard is hosted on a BuyVM kvm, presumably with a ddos filtered IP and then using offloaded MySQL (BuyVM+).



Great topic!

Yes, this server is hosted by BuyVM. Earlier today it was hosted on my personal server that I have with RocketVPS. I am affiliated with neither of these companies. I am paying for both servers.

With BuyVM I'm paying for a KVM VPS, DDoS filtered IP (just in case) and offload the DB to their nice and affordable MySQL solution. They don't get anything from this other than my money and my many many many thanks for getting vpsBoard transitioned to my server with them quickly. An unmanaged provider, but in a time of need went above and beyond what I'd expect from even a managed provider. They get my props.

Now, yes, I work for URPad at this current time. This is a personal site. I don't want to tarnish my reputation as an admin by posting URPad offers here, by advertising it here, etc. If my new boss were to ask me to use this site as a means to push sales, I would kindly decline to do that.

This place is yours as much as it's mine, so I do appreciate everyone joining today and finding this place fit to be your new home. Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## Francisco (May 15, 2013)

No sweat 

I do my best to help everyone I can.

I know i'm prone to franning things but I do learn over time 

Francisco


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## NickM (May 15, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, MannDude.   What I'm basically getting at is though is do you plan to add some kind of easy-to-find page that details all of this?  I think it would go a long way towards easing some people's mind about that kind of thing.  Even just adding a "Disclosures" link in the footer next to the privacy policy would do the trick, I think.


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## bfj (May 15, 2013)

SeriesN said:


> I know fran likes to keep his wallet shut unless he is in vegas


Actually, I think Fran would rather give it away, it is Pony (Aldryic) who likes to keep the company in the Black and not red.

0.-/


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## Aldryic C'boas (May 15, 2013)

bfj said:


> Actually, I think Fran would rather give it away, it is Pony (Aldryic) who likes to keep the company in the Black and not red.
> 
> 0.-/


Yeah, I had to cut Fran's billing access since he kept giving stuff away <_<


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## The_Hatta (May 15, 2013)

bfj said:


> Actually, I think Fran would rather give it away, it is Pony (Aldryic) who likes to keep the company in the Black and not red.
> 
> 0.-/


Heil Pony -_-/


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## Nick_A (May 15, 2013)

What is this transparency crap?


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## drmike (May 15, 2013)

Hee haw!

I jumped over here cause of the caliber of folks who were already here.

When I look around LET I see plenty of morons, dupes and crooked folks.  That's the users.  Hell the providers, lots of them are even worse.

Who I buy from was mostly already here.

So, with everything MannDude has declared and BuyVM coming in to rescue (was the site being DDoS'd earlier or what) I say, this is the place I trust.


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## Francisco (May 15, 2013)




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## ChrisM (May 15, 2013)

If anyone is wondering I have had no-involvement in this forum from the start. 

I sold my companies and I have been just sitting back and relaxing/drinking and gambling. Was new car shopping today and while I was out that whole LET thing happened. I checked my phone on the way home and I had like 5 texts and many G+ and Skype notifications so obviously it appears something fun happened while I was out.


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## SeriesN (May 15, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Maaaaan fuck you guys.
> 
> 
> Francisco


Language MR. Francisco.


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## Mr. Obvious (May 15, 2013)

FTN-Chris said:


> If anyone is wondering I have had no-involvement in this forum from the start.
> 
> I sold my companies and I have been just sitting back and relaxing/drinking and gambling. Was new car shopping today and while I was out that whole LET thing happened. I checked my phone on the way home and I had like 5 texts and many G+ and Skype notifications so obviously it appears something fun happened while I was out.


WHY NOT JUST SAY YOU WORK FOR COLOCROSSING SIR

lolnoimjustkidding


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## wlanboy (May 16, 2013)

Hopefully this forum will not change as fast as LET did.


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## drmike (May 16, 2013)

FTN-Chris said:


> If anyone is wondering I have had no-involvement in this forum from the start.


So come on, you cashed the check and the funds cleared Miller.

Kevin Hillstrand = Adam Jack(son).

Spit the truth about that created persona and whatever else you think won't scare the internet to death.


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## Punjabi (May 16, 2013)

I just hope this forum doesn't pull the shit move of selling paid ad-spots like LET. Else it would just be a matter of time, this forum going the same path as LET.

By the way, was it really some medical condition (read it on LET) which led Joel to disappear?

I remember couple of users raised their voices once the word was out that Chief was actually Joel. I guess some of them even left the forum because of it, with one user even opening up a thread explaining his dislike for Joel's behavior, opposing his selection for running the operation & reasons for leaving.

PS. I really liked Vanilla, with all the topics in a single section/frontend, it was really nice.


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## drmike (May 16, 2013)

Welcome @Punjabi.

I am not as concerned about ad spots.  They are easily ad blocked   Issue isn't truly with ads, but what the ads are and who is profiteering from them.

Tim from Hostigation said it on LET earlier.  He was fine forking over money to Joel.  But wasn't fine with that going to Colocrossing.   

Joel = illness.   I saw one thread I remember about that.  Seemed to be a joke.  Joel had long been busy with his kite business and living the good life.

Joel sold because the community wasn't his interest and required time and upkeep.

Vanilla, yeah, thread arrangement up front is interesting.  Can't say I totally adored it, but different.


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## mikho (May 16, 2013)

FTN-Chris said:


> I sold my companies and I have been just sitting back and relaxing/drinking and gambling.


Out of curiosity, are you still working at FTN? .... your username says FTN-Chris.



Punjabi said:


> By the way, was it really some medical condition (read it on LET) which led Joel to disappear?


Yes, Joel had some medical issues that was affecting his online presence, but I don't think that was the reason for the sellout.


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## Punjabi (May 16, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Welcome @Punjabi.
> 
> 
> I am not as concerned about ad spots.  They are easily ad blocked   Issue isn't truly with ads, *but what the ads are and who is profiteering from them*.



Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to. Once it changed it's approach from community to a profit business, it simply went downhill.

Sorry, English being my second language, wasn't able to convey it better.



buffalooed said:


> Vanilla, yeah, thread arrangement up front is interesting. Can't say I totally adored it, *but different*.


That's the reason liked it better. Since it was never as big (target audience wise) like other forums, so the lack of separate sections/forums layout (like all/most other forum/websites) really worked well (at least for me).



mikho said:


> Yes, Joel had some medical issues that was affecting his online presence, but I don't think that was the reason for the sellout.



He could have handed it over to some active community member or assigned someone to manage it for him. Still missing the old LEA days.


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## mikho (May 16, 2013)

Punjabi said:


> He should have handed it over to some active community member or assigned someone to manage it for him. Still missing the old LEA days.






Well, too much money to just let it go 

Joel had an idea on what he wanted to do with LEB/LET, putting everything under a "lowend network", providers should write their own offers and get reports back on clicks etc.. 

He was also talking about the possibility to mark threads on LET as "knowledge base articles" and they would show up on the wiki.

So he had great plans for it ..... but nothing really happened and I guess when he was approched by CC and they asked for a price and he replied with something that he thought was "to much" (Fransisco mentioned $50.000) and they probably just said "OK.".

What would you have done if someone offered you that amount of money?

I would probably do the same and sell it off ...Not sure since I've never been in that situation


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## drmike (May 16, 2013)

mikho said:


> Yes, Joel had some medical issues that was affecting his online presence, but I don't think that was the reason for the sellout.


Yes, he was suffering from enlarged pocketitis, a condition wherein your mobility is limited due to all the money stuffed in your pocket.

It makes sitting hard also.


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## ChrisM (May 16, 2013)

mikho said:


> Out of curiosity, are you still working at FTN? .... your username says FTN-Chris.


I registered this account while I still owned FTN.


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## RaidLogic.NET (May 16, 2013)

Seems like everyone joined this forum which is great.


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## mikho (May 16, 2013)

FTN-Chris said:


> I registered this account while I still owned FTN.


Ok, welcome


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## mojeda (May 16, 2013)

Punjabi said:


> I just hope this forum doesn't pull the shit move of selling paid ad-spots like LET. Else it would just be a matter of time, this forum going the same path as LET.
> 
> 
> By the way, was it really some medical condition (read it on LET) which led Joel to disappear?
> ...


You can use the "View All Content" page via: http://vpsboard.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=forums


It's also in the header above the vps Board logo.



FTN-Chris said:


> I registered this account while I still owned FTN.


You can change it: http://vpsboard.com/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=displayname


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## mitgib (May 16, 2013)

mikho said:


> I guess when he was approched by CC and they asked for a price and he replied with something that he thought was "to much" (Fransisco mentioned $50.000) and they probably just said "OK.".
> 
> What would you have done if someone offered you that amount of money?
> 
> I would probably do the same and sell it off ...Not sure since I've never been in that situation


Man, I've tried that approach with ChicagoVPS-Chris, so far he is resisting me, maybe I should offer him a higher price.


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## mikho (May 16, 2013)

mitgib said:


> Man, I've tried that approach with ChicagoVPS-Chris, so far he is resisting me, maybe I should offer him a higher price.


treefiddy?


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## drmike (May 16, 2013)

$50k isn't a whole lot to CC.   Seen reported income numbers from Velocity Servers which are fudged of about $750k.

Know they pushed a big computer giveaway to a school district in Buffalo and claimed $40k given (tax benefit no doubt).

LET/LEB is $120k roughly a year - 25% fee for ads = $90k. Given they've sold all inventory in the year at stated rates.  Based on old numbers - unsure if math is right now and especially next week 

Which means, $50k break even point is 6-12 months all depending.  Actually even less when you pay the people doing the work nothing and the head person $100 a month.


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## ChrisM (May 18, 2013)

mojeda said:


> You can change it: http://vpsboard.com/...rea=displayname


 

Done!


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## KuJoe (May 19, 2013)

MannDude said:


> Great topic!
> 
> Yes, this server is hosted by BuyVM. Earlier today it was hosted on my personal server that I have with RocketVPS. I am affiliated with neither of these companies. I am paying for both servers.
> 
> ...


I would love to see something like this on an "About Us" page somewhere, just my 2 cents.


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## drmike (May 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I would love to see something like this on an "About Us" page somewhere, just my 2 cents.


+1 for this.  Think it is good so it is clear up front to new people.


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## wlanboy (May 19, 2013)

Topic 1:



buffalooed said:


> $50k isn't a whole lot to CC.


For a company this number is indeed peanuts. But for a normal worker it is the wage for 1-2 years.

I think everyone has his price. Just put in the number [your monthly income] * 15. And say that you would not consider it.

In my opinion all the shitload did hit the wrong persons. Ok you do not like CVPS - but what about Chief selling something he get for free?

Topic 2:

LET: Hosted by CC, run by employee of CVPS.

VPSboard: Hosted by BuyVM, run by employee of URPad.

So this is all about who you like, or do not like? Because the only difference is the name of the companies.


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## Francisco (May 19, 2013)

Don't take the figure as fact.

Joel threw it out there in a convo so who knows what real numbers were in the end. Given the timelines Alex gave, Joel sold the site when it was still doing $500 - $800/m in gross profit. Getting a $50k offer off that? That's good money for something he had invested a few thousand into given a high charge out rate for his own worked hours.

Francisco


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## NickM (May 19, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> LET: Hosted by CC, run by employee of CVPS.
> 
> VPSboard: Hosted by BuyVM, run by employee of URPad.
> 
> So this is all about who you like, or do not like? Because the only difference is the name of the companies.



What we don't like is the fact that we were never told that ColoCrossing owned LE*.  They're being upfront about everything here, so we have no problem.


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## rds100 (May 19, 2013)

I don't blame ColoCrossing for buying LowEndTalk. I blame Joel for taking a good site, ruining it and selling it. Seems he is a real LowEndDick.


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## drmike (May 19, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> Topic 2:
> 
> LET: Hosted by CC, run by employee of CVPS.
> 
> ...


I select Topic 2 

There is a huge difference between these sites and communities.

To start over here it is transparent. There is no guessing who or what is behind the scenes.

Next,  BuyVM is only hosting the site.  They are not donating anything.  The service is being paid for.

Third, MannDude is going, going and about to be gone from URPad.   His two weeks there are winding done.  URPad has no affiliation with the site.  Unsure if current owners are on here or not.

Finally,  the folks over here are pretty decent.   I haven't seen threads disappearing for someone bashing URPad or BuyVM.   Moderation is straight, open and involved.  Accessible too.

All that plus, this site isn't being operated as a lead generation site for a server company or for the sake of getting rich on ad revenue.


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## KuJoe (May 19, 2013)

I personally hate the fact that the LEB/LET fiasco is bleeding into vpsBoard. I vote for 1 thread about LEB/LET/CC/ChicagoVPS/Joel/Chief/Dinosaurs and let the rest of the threads (like this one) stay on topic.  B)


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## MannDude (May 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I would love to see something like this on an "About Us" page somewhere, just my 2 cents.


Great idea!



wlanboy said:


> Topic 2:
> 
> LET: Hosted by CC, run by employee of CVPS.
> 
> ...


I see your point, but you have to understand that I never used this place to plug URPad. The only times I have said the name of the company I work for is in response to something like this. I've got less than two weeks left there, afterwards I'll likely get another job in the industry. I've got some leads with a few companies including an EIG brand. If, for example, I get hired on at this EIG brand. Will you be under the impression that because I work and make my money as an employee of said brand, that therefor this site is negatively associated with it? I love this industry and will continue to be a part of it, I just hope people don't think that someone me, as 'just an employee' would feel so compelled to spam my employer on here. As far as I am concerned, I do my job and clock out. I'm not a high level employee, I'm just a dude. I enjoy what I do but outside of the hours I am scheduled to work I feel no reason to do more 'work'. This is a personal project, it'll stay that way.

And yes, BuyVM hosts this. I'm not for sure if I should be more open about this or stop commenting on it. If I am more open about it, the community will think I am just spouting an advertisement for BuyVM. If I do not respond when someone mentions it, I don't want people to think I'm keeping quiet. I'm a paying customer of theirs, pre-paid for 3 months. The site had to be hosted somewhere. They fit my budget and Fran was kind enough to get vpsBoard moved from my RocketVPS when it was getting attacked onto my KVM that I had purchased from him well a week before.


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## drmike (May 19, 2013)

Francisco said:


> Don't take the figure as fact.
> 
> Joel threw it out there in a convo so who knows what real numbers were in the end. Given the timelines Alex gave, Joel sold the site when it was still doing $500 - $800/m in gross profit. Getting a $50k offer off that? That's good money for something he had invested a few thousand into given a high charge out rate for his own worked hours.
> 
> Francisco


Gross profit  as in all the money he took in or after all his costs.

By the ad spot rates, $10k a month - 25% for BuySellAds commission. = $7500 a month.

If Joel was making total what was claimed, something was wrong.  Depends though on when  he had the site.  Feb-March 2012 as maybe 1 month or something could see bad income like that.  Thereafter, no way.

That's some serious cash for sitting there commandoing Liam and moderators around.

I'd like for the original lowend Admin to come back and chime in on things   He seemed like a right intentioned guy.  Bet he wouldn't be happy about the ad ramp up and then the mass sell off.

PS: Even both sites combined at $7500 income is pitifully low.  But I don't believe the traffic since CC got the site is genuine.  Ask the other hosts making offers about their sales.


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## KuJoe (May 19, 2013)

Honestly, this website has to be hosted somewhere, if not BuyVM then another VPS company. Even if he colocated a server it would be hosted in a datacenter that most likely sells servers and/or VPSs. The primary goal for any admin is to not go bankrupt so cutting costs by purchasing from an LEB provider is the best method.


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## MannDude (May 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> Honestly, this website has to be hosted somewhere, if not BuyVM then another VPS company. Even if he colocated a server it would be hosted in a datacenter that most likely sells servers and/or VPSs. The primary goal for any admin is to not go bankrupt so cutting costs by purchasing from an LEB provider is the best method.


I _could_ put ads up so I could afford a non-low end provider. But people would likely not be happy that there are ads to support having this site hosted, for example, with BlackLotus or to afford CloudFlare's business plan.

Just trying to keep it simple. Everything has been out of my pocket so far.


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## drmike (May 19, 2013)

MannDude said:


> I _could_ put ads up so I could afford a non-low end provider. But people would likely not be happy that there are ads to support having this site hosted, for example, with BlackLotus or to afford CloudFlare's business plan.
> 
> Just trying to keep it simple. Everything has been out of my pocket so far.


I think it would be bad for now to run to a big provider and a super server in light of the lowly ended spirit.

Ads, blregghhh!  Maybe in the future.

Thanks for spending your time doing this and your hard earned money.


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## Francisco (May 19, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Gross profit  as in all the money he took in or after all his costs.
> 
> By the ad spot rates, $10k a month - 25% for BuySellAds commission. = $7500 a month.
> 
> ...


LET ads came pretty late into last year. When Joel took the site there was only a dozen or so frontpage ads and that brought in about $500/m.

LET ads came in...the summer? As well as the rampup on frontpage ads.

Francisco


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## drmike (May 19, 2013)

Francisco said:


> LET ads came pretty late into last year. When Joel took the site there was only a dozen or so frontpage ads and that brought in about $500/m.
> 
> LET ads came in...the summer? As well as the rampup on frontpage ads.
> 
> Francisco


I did the dates.  The BuySellAds accounts are dated February 2012.  Assuming when Joel took over.

LEB had ads running on it since 2009(?)... That income surely was rolling in, so his income wasn't as low as he said.  Joel got LEB right  ?

Now LET started running ads on the site it looks like in September or October 2012.  So that doubled up on the money or at least boosted it.

Since then the ad rates I believe have increased.

Has anyone officially confirmed the data when the CC borgs took over LET/LEB?   I've been pegging that as the time when the LET ads appeared (Sept-Oct).


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## wlanboy (May 19, 2013)

MannDude said:


> [...]


Nothing against you. And nothing against BuyVM.

I just wanted to show that every forum is owned by someone and hosted by a company.

And that this fact cannot be a valid justification for the actions against LET.

Noone is saying that the hack/ddos against LET was not ok. And just because noone likes CVPS?

In my opinion a action is good or bad and this judgment should not depend on the target of the action.

Hacking/DDoSing/Defacement is not a valid, fair-minded or suitable action against someone because you do not like him or his actions.


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## HalfEatenPie (May 19, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> I just wanted to show that every forum is owned by someone and hosted by a company.


 

Well, basically the forum is run by MannDude who is currently hired by URPad (but could change in the next couple of weeks).  The servers are hosted on BuyVM.  

Everything has been paid for by MannDude through his personal funds.  People who are on staff here on VPSBoard represent different VPS Companies, but we all participate on this forum more as users.


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## KuJoe (May 19, 2013)

*@**HalfEatenPie*, are you an admin or mod? You show up on the forum team page but your usergroup is set to "Verified Provider". Just curious.


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## mud (May 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I personally hate the fact that the LEB/LET fiasco is bleeding into vpsBoard. I vote for 1 thread about LEB/LET/CC/ChicagoVPS/Joel/Chief/Dinosaurs and let the rest of the threads (like this one) stay on topic. B)


Agreed, this forum is starting to look like LowEndTalkTalk


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## HalfEatenPie (May 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> @HalfEatenPie, are you an admin or mod? You show up on the forum team page but your usergroup is set to "Verified Provider". Just curious.



I'm a Mod!  But only in two forums (VPS Offers and Review forums).  This is because we wanted to keep the VPS Offers thread and the Review threads to be moderated by several people within the industry to remain as neutral (and equal) as we can be.  Regardless, I guarantee you my moderating work and my VPS Provider work will be separate.  My moderating work will be as reasonable and as justifiable/logical as I can be.   

Of course if anyone has problems with me let me know, or let MannDude know so he can kick my butt into gear.


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