# OVH intends to ruin the hosting industry.



## drmike




----------



## Shoaib_A

It would be impossible to provide guaranteed 500 Mbps unmetered in Australia or Asia for as low as 79$ like OVH do in France & Canada currently  but yes their aim, like always, would be to offer things cheaper than others ensuring high uptime & almost everything automated attracting those who can manage their servers themselves & usually go for cheapest available option. There is no doubt that bandwidth is very expensive in Asia & Australia but those who currently offer decent servers there overprice things a bit as well so it would be interesting to see what direction things take when OVH enters those markets.


So personally I feel it is a good thing as those looking for servers in Australia or Asia also deserve to have cheaper options available & of course we might see others improving as well due to increase in competition.


----------



## rds100

Why is this email signed by Octave? I thought he is no longer in charge?


----------



## Shoaib_A

rds100 said:


> Why is this email signed by Octave? I thought he is no longer in charge?



He is still the CTO & if I'm not wrong OVH is pretty much a Klaba family business.


----------



## OSTKCabal

I don't see how OVH intends to reliably finance 12 new data centers, much less provide sustainable service in the Asian markets. I'm sure they'll have to either raise their prices for the Asia-Pacific region servers, reduce the included/"guaranteed" bandwidth, or both.


----------



## drmike

OSTKCabal said:


> I don't see how OVH intends to reliably finance 12 new data centers, much less provide sustainable service in the Asian markets. I'm sure they'll have to either raise their prices for the Asia-Pacific region servers, reduce the included/"guaranteed" bandwidth, or both.



I can't see anyone saying 12 new data centers and being honest about it.   These DCs have to be built out in other folks space.


As for their locations, the Portland one is going to wreck providers on the West Coast.  Good luck selling cheap like OVH competition.


Asia?  I can't see OVH doing much there.  But quite possible that they might go into play to pay location where cutting a payoff gets you far.  For now, they are going to try that West Coast lure to Asia, which is meh, unless you are selling VPN.


----------



## OSTKCabal

drmike said:


> I can't see anyone saying 12 new data centers and being honest about it.   These DCs have to be built out in other folks space.
> 
> 
> As for their locations, the Portland one is going to wreck providers on the West Coast.  Good luck selling cheap like OVH competition.
> 
> 
> Asia?  I can't see OVH doing much there.  But quite possible that they might go into play to pay location where cutting a payoff gets you far.  For now, they are going to try that West Coast lure to Asia, which is meh, unless you are selling VPN.



I'm just wondering who, especially in those locations, could meet their price range without them owning the facility. It'd be very, very difficult, especially if they intend to deploy their Kimsufi and SoYouStart brands in those locations as well. Beyond that, them building out in existing data center space may raise an issue of space itself. They're an extremely high-volume provider and will be deploying in very popular locations.


----------



## DomainBop

OSTKCabal said:


> I don't see how OVH intends to reliably finance 12 new data centers



Already financed  by the $327 million ($196 million revolving credit facility + $131 million bond issue) they raised in December 2014 for US/Asia expansion.   Plus an additional $163 million self-funded from company funds.  Total of $490 million investment in international expansion.



> 5000 physical servers



typo, should be 50000 (they previously announced they built over 50000 new servers last year).


----------



## drmike

OSTKCabal said:


> I'm just wondering who, especially in those locations, could meet their price range without them owning the facility. It'd be very, very difficult, especially if they intend to deploy their Kimsufi and SoYouStart brands in those locations as well. Beyond that, them building out in existing data center space may raise an issue of space itself. They're an extremely high-volume provider and will be deploying in very popular locations.



Ashburn / DC has probably more DC's than the Silicon Valley.  It's a heavy location with DCs.. and while everyone pretends floor space is all filled, I doubt it there.   There have been a number of big DC builds in past few years.


Portland is a bit of a slacker.   I vaguely recall Oregon being generous about dolling public cash for DC projects.  Will be more interested in seeing which facility has them in it.


I cannot see the Kimsufi and SoYou lines hitting these new locations or any they aren't completely owning.


----------



## drmike

DomainBop said:


> Already financed  by the $327 million ($196 million revolving credit facility + $131 million bond issue) they raised in December 2014 for US/Asia expansion.   Plus an additional $163 million self-funded from company funds.  Total of $490 million investment in international expansion



This may be.  Heck of a war chest.  Definitely can get milege out of that money. 


Credit + bonds have IOUs and paybacks... so it's meh, a bit expensive and risky.  The $163 million and how it is applied could be the story behind most of this.  Expect a chunk of that to be securitized against the IOUs.


Enough money either way to pull such...


----------



## Dylan

Shoaib_A said:


> if I'm not wrong OVH is pretty much a Klaba family business.



Totally a Klaba family business, even. They're the only owners and he's the chairman of the board. The CEO is accountable to Octave. It's just that now he gets to spend more time on the stuff he wants to focus on (tech) and less on the stuff he doesn't (business).


----------



## HN-Matt

drmike said:


>



I lol'd


----------



## MikeA

Comparative:


SpaceX - Bringing affordable space travel/launches to private companies.
OVH - Bringing affordable server hosting to underdeveloped/overpriced regions.


Bad for business in the region that compete, good for small consumers and startups who need it.


I use OVH for my game servers and OpenVZ, I'm not saying this because they're definitely _not_ the only datacenter I use, but this is a step forward assuming their prices in Singapore/Sydney are similar to their other locations (which I doubt, surely they will be a bit higher).


Either way, it doesn't mean every business that operates in their areas isn't going to simply go out of business.


----------



## HN-Matt

MikeA said:


> Comparative:
> 
> 
> SpaceX - Bringing affordable space travel/launches to private companies.
> OVH - Bringing affordable server hosting to underdeveloped/overpriced regions.



Hopefully SpaceX will be able to convince the Van Allen radiation belts to use OpenVZ before the launch of Mars One!


----------



## HalfEatenPie

OSTKCabal said:


> I don't see how OVH intends to reliably finance 12 new data centers, much less provide sustainable service in the Asian markets. I'm sure they'll have to either raise their prices for the Asia-Pacific region servers, reduce the included/"guaranteed" bandwidth, or both.



While Asia is a more expensive market, especially in terms of bandwidth and power, I can see a way where OVH can potentially flourish here.  


Lets take OVH for what it is.  It's like Walmart.  They buy everything in bulk and make a profit through volumes.  Asia isn't that much different, although they might have to increase the pricing a little bit (like adding an extra dollar or something).  However if their supplier is a local business, they would be getting cheap cheap hardware. 


One of the biggest issues facing Asia, besides for climate change, is the energy crisis.  Energy is incredibly scarce that many countries are having supply issues and are starting to cut back a little bit.  It also gets coupled in with "being green" and "saving energy/protecting the environment", but I know multiple countries right now are at an energy deficit that datacenters may have to increase their rent.  So that's the most expensive part.  


The 4 best connected points in Asia are: Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, and Japan.  Other less developed countries have much less bandwidth and if you're looking at a country like Vietnam, are only connected to either Hong Kong or Singapore.  If you want to network internationally, most of the time you'll want to peer with Singapore or Hong Kong (for SEA countries).  Hong Kong has the best gateway/traffic into mainland China for obvious reasons.  Singapore is like the network hub of all of Asia.  India's also decent but India is just better connected within their own country rather than internationally (unless you want the more Western part of Asia, but when people usually say Asia they usually look at SEA or Northern Asia, like Japan, Korea, and China).  


Singapore specifically though is pretty weird.  The country is practically fractured network wise.  Either you're part of the big/primary internet exchange, which if I recall correctly is StarHub (a local ISP plus datacenter provider), or you have to be part of the smaller IXes that lacks some good peering.  That's why sometimes even if you're living in Singapore, there are sometimes periods when your routing to another Singapore server is absolutely out of whack.  Internationally, 


There are also more submarine cables being laid down right now, connecting Asia to the US and Australia.  If I recall correctly, KT is co-owning another new submarine cable currently being laid out connecting Korea and Japan to Seattle.  


Talking about Submarine cables, because Asia is practically a conglomerate of island nations each with political tensions which frequently prevents direct country peering (e.g. South Korea can't lay down fiber in North Korea, Vietnam and their border countries, etc.), almost all countries are connected via the submarine cables.  Now if there is an issue and lets say someone accidentally damages a submarine cable (like what happened in 2015 in Vietnam, Vietnam has two major points where the submarine cables connect and one of those locations had a high capacity/volume cable that was cut) suddenly all the country's network is channeled through a single cable.  For a period of about two weeks (until the weather subsided and the cable could be repaired), that country had some shitty internet.  


However shitty the internet situation is in Asia in comparison to Europe or the US, and however limited in resources Asia is, I can still see OVH flourishing if they're willing to invest in their own infrastructure here.  Just like how OVH chose BHS as their North America location (due to access to cheap power and they made their own network and systems there), if they are willing to invest into the area and buy everything in bulk, I can see them succeeding pretty big here.  


Now for the Asian server industry as a whole, I can't say I know exactly what will happen since I'm an engineer, not an economist, but this is what I'm thinking.  If OVH does bring in Kimsufi and Soyoustart along with it (remember, when OVH first moved into BHS, they only had OVH brand hardware in there, but later started including Kimsufi and Soyoustart) then the budget server market in Asia will be made available to other people internationally.  Currently, the budget servers are only available to people who are domestic/live locally/understand the language (for example, I can find a Korean dedicated server for 30 dollars a month, but if an English speaking individual wanted one they'd be paying 80 dollars or more).  OVH coming into a market decreases the cost of bandwidth (since it usually creates excess bandwidth).  Power will probably be the major deciding factor though.  


I'm not an expert.  Therefore there's probably a fair amount of issues and errors in this post.  However, this is what I think and is my opinion of what will happen.  Especially since this will be a direct impact to me.


----------



## HN-Matt

HalfEatenPie said:


> Lets take OVH for what it is.



Didn't read these, but might as well throw in a juxtaposition re: their 'Validation Team' while we're at it.

With Little Fanfare, FBI Ramps Up Biometrics Programs (Yet Again)—Part 1
With Little Fanfare, FBI Ramps Up Biometrics Programs (Yet Again)—Part 2


----------



## DomainBop

https://www.ovh.ie/news/articles/a2065.2016productRoadmap


----------



## HalfEatenPie

HN-Matt said:


> Didn't read these, but might as well throw in a juxtaposition re: their 'Validation Team' while we're at it.
> 
> With Little Fanfare, FBI Ramps Up Biometrics Programs (Yet Again)—Part 1
> With Little Fanfare, FBI Ramps Up Biometrics Programs (Yet Again)—Part 2



lol


----------



## OSTKCabal

HalfEatenPie said:


> *snip*



While I see your point, the ideology still exists that it is often a more expensive place for hosts to locate themselves in. My largest concern with OVH is not necessarily the data center itself or even power; moreso the massive amount of bandwidth required. If their current setup is anything to speak of, they'll likely offer their 160Gbps DDoS Protection free with every service, and it'll be interesting to see if that's modified at all for the Asian market - be that a (likely temporarily) smaller amount of protection or a small price hike for Asian-deployed servers. Needless to say, bandwidth in the Asian market is generally more expensive when compared to equivalent bandwidth commits elsewhere in the world.


I'm personally not a fan of OVH at all. They exist almost solely on fairly constant debt, and have been operating in that way for years now.


It is undeniable that, even at their scale, their pricing schemes are definitely on the very low end and generally not sustainable from a traditional ROI standpoint, especially when you factor in the massive DDoS Protection and various other features that they offer such as free backup space, the one-time-only IP space payment, and the amount of bandwidth that they guarantee per server. Oftentimes, the server's price won't even cover the bandwidth price when that server gets attacked, which is an extremely common occurrence in the VPS and Game Server markets - two that OVH actively markets to.


On the flipside, I'm all for increased coverage of service and the investments that they'll be making in local and even national infrastructure. Them bringing a great-value service to the Asian market, as I'm confident they will even if they implement an increased price, will be a good move.


----------



## PowerUpHosting-Udit

Bandwidth will remain the biggest challenge in Asian countries and Australia, regardless of them coming, they won't be able to offer the same pricing, if they do then they will take a massive loss and I doubt the investors would love the fact that they are losing the money. I am expecting the prices to be 2-3x higher than what they are offering at present with very limited amount of bandwidth available per server. 


Overall, it would be interesting to see how they price out all their servers as this could really be a game changer in the future and could affect a lot of companies, but regardless, they still remain IaaS with no managed services.


----------



## HN-Matt

> OVH intends to ruin the hosting industry.




Looks like France is gearing up to help 'em: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/12/new_french_law_to_require_backdoors/



> "Equipment manufacturers must take into account in their structures the need to give the police as part of a judicial inquiry and after authorization by a judge, access to hardware," reads Amendment CL92, published last week.
> 
> 
> "France must take the lead by requiring equipment manufacturers to consider the imperative of access by police and gendarmes, under the supervision of a judge and only in the context of a judicial inquiry, to these materials. The objective is to avoid individual encryption systems that will further delay the investigation."




In an interview last April, Octave claimed OVH would leave France if the 'black box' surveillance law passed.



> OVH est dirigé par Octave Klaba. Celui-ci, parti de rien, mais geek extrêmement talentueux, peut se vanter d'une réussite magnifique et d'avoir offert à la France ce que nos gouvernements appellent parfois "_une pépite_". Pourtant Octave Klaba pourrait bien déménager ses serveurs hors de France prochainement, et la France perdre sa pépite très créatrice d'emplois, à cause du projet de loi Renseignement. Il explique cela dans une interview accordée à notre confrère Les Echos. Il ne mâche pas ses mots. On le comprend.
> 
> _"Il y a deux dispositifs avec lesquels je ne suis pas du tout à l’aise. D’une part, la pose de "boîtes noires" et donc d’algorithmes pré-programmés dans les réseaux et chez les hébergeurs, pour surveiller le trafic. Et d’autre part, le système de captation direct d’informations sur des individus ciblés. Le première mesure est censée permettre ensuite de décider qui l’on surveille en permanence. Qui prend cette décision ? Dans quel cadre ? Tout cela doit être encadré par un juge. En tout cas, le projet de loi va permettre la surveillance de masse de la société française. Peut-être qu’en venant de Pologne communiste, je sur-réagis. Mais j’ai connu ce genre de chose dans mon enfance. C’était il y a à peine 25 ans. On est proche des pires régimes. __En Chine, c’est une réalité. Il y a une énorme incohérence entre l’objectif et les méthodes utilisées."_
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> OVH, dont 40% des clients sont des étrangers soucieux de protéger leurs données a des datacenters à Roubaix, à Gravelines, à Strasbourg. Tout cela pourrait être terminé prochainement.



http://www.programmez.com/actualites/ovh-pourrait-quitter-la-france-qui-se-rapproche-des-pires-regimes-22501


----------



## drmike

HN-Matt said:


> French eat stinky cheese while unwashed militant masses execute hundreds of unarmed Frenchies.   No terrorist used crypto... But the big bad bogeyman must be face masked as anti-crypto crusades.



 The objective is to avoid individual encryption systems that will further delay the investigation.


The objective rather is to have a dumbed down public unable to defend their soft bodies from even paper cuts.  Referring to the anti gunner status of France.


No terroristastas or their bro-mans have used crypto in any attack... But it's was the rage as soon the Bataclan was hit.  Oh those technologically superior unwashed militant masses and their techtopia.


Time for the French public to rise up.  Roll the guillotines out to town square and start pointing at the leaders.


----------



## drmike

and I'd like to see Octave put his big foot in his mouth on this and leave France...


I don't see it happening as OVH allegedly is a big recipient of government handouts.


I'd like someone to push data on this out to public or substantiate the claim.  I  am unsure of the status either way.  They received several hundred thousands of non-refundable handouts in Canada, but that was on a project estimated to be invest of $32+ million.. and where they assumed I believe the Superfund style disaster site of Rio Tinto's aluminium plant.  A site that I feel too little has been wrote about and not widely discussed.


----------



## PowerUpHosting-Udit

drmike said:


> and I'd like to see Octave put his big foot in his mouth on this and leave France...



I don't see that happening anytime soon.



drmike said:


> I don't see it happening as OVH allegedly is a big recipient of government handouts.



I had a talk with some of the oldest hosting providers a year ago in the industry and they used to tell me how OVH is heavily funded by the Government of France and they have deep roots tied up. This is the reason OVH doesn't mind selling those servers for ridiculously cheap as they don't give a shit about losing the free money.


----------



## graeme

drmike said:


> Time for the French public to rise up.  Roll the guillotines out to town square and start pointing at the leaders.



Making comments like that would get you arrested in some places.....


----------



## drmike

graeme said:


> Making comments like that would get you arrested in some places.....



That's why those places are meh   


Guillotines purged the French of their leadership plagues in the past, call it inheritance.   History repeats itself for a reason.


----------



## HN-Matt

drmike said:


> History repeats itself



Thankfully France banned the guillotine in 1977, although I was reminded of that Death Grips song.


----------



## graeme

Who competes with OVH on price? Online.net is also French which is a bit suspicious as far as the State aid goes unless. Hertzner is German and seems competitive BUT does not offer the DDOS protection (and from what I have read are not very helpful if you suffer a DDOS). Who else is there?


----------



## AlbaHost

Servdiscount.com (myloc) has also good price too, i think they offer basic ddos protection too.


----------



## OSTKCabal

graeme said:


> Who competes with OVH on price? Online.net is also French which is a bit suspicious as far as the State aid goes unless. Hertzner is German and seems competitive BUT does not offer the DDOS protection (and from what I have read are not very helpful if you suffer a DDOS). Who else is there?



There aren't many. Online.net is part of the Iliad group, which also operates Free.fr - one of France's largest ISPs, as well as a major international operator. Online has been known to provide fairly exceptional service, though they've had some issues with network congestion.


----------



## drmike

Price wise, if you aren't buying the premium newer CPU lines, there is Dacentec, there are multiple provider in Kansas City.   None of those offer DDoS protection at current, at least officially at last glance.


I want to say that server + DDoS protect as OVH does it is novel and price point is rather low.  Issue is OVH buyers are mixed up group.   I assume cheap, so go SoYou or KimSufi, buying real OVH, not so cheap all said.   Guys buying need to look at numbers for a year of service and do math.   Otherwise poor decisions happen... and include growth, IPs, more bandwidth, whatever you may actually need.


----------



## graeme

Yes, you can get servers at OVH prices, but there seems to be noone who offers a comparable product at the same price - a comment above said online.net suffers network congestion, hardly anyone else has DDOS protection, etc. Even if you ignore DDOS protection, there are few competitors and all the European competition seems to be in France or Germany.

Incidentally, why does the UK seem generally more expensive for unmanaged dedis?

I am not (right now) looking for a supplier for anything in particular (I may be soon - I will ask in service requests when I am) but I am trying to get a grasp of the market, who the main players are etc.


----------



## estnoc

I wish good luck to OVH to manage it out with same low fee in Asia as they do sell in Europe.


----------



## DomainBop

OVH data centers opening October 15th:


Warsaw https://www.ovh.ie/discover/poland.xml


Singapore: https://www.ovh.ie/discover/singapore.xml


opening October 30:


Sydney: https://www.ovh.ie/discover/australia.xml


The offers in Singapore/Australia are more than twice the price of France/Poland/Canada and only include 3TB/month of transfer (100Mbps unlimited is available for an additional 50eur monthly)..  By comparison, Leaseweb offers 10TB standard on most of their Singapore dedicateds (and I'm paying them S$14.97/about US$11 for a VPS with 10TB at 1Gbps...it was a special).



> OVH intends to ruin the hosting industry.



early verdict based on this first round of new DC location openings: they need to try harder if they want to ruin the hosting industry in Asia/Australia.


----------



## willie

Hetzner is cheaper than OVH at dedicated servers and I don't have the impression they're subsidized.  They have DDOS protection for everything now too (announced a month or so ago).  OVH also has that "cloud" stuff with Amazon-like pricing (i.e. 10x what we're used to from cheap hosts) and I guess someone must be buying it.  OVH's most amazing offer is the $3.50 2GB SSD VPS's.  Those have gotten high marks at LET.


----------



## graeme

The cheapest OVH cloud offering is an EG-7 which gives you 2 vcores, 200GB of storage, 250 Mbps bandwidth for $28/month.


The storage is high availability (triple redundant distributed Ceph FS), you get unlimited transfer,  a 99.999% SLA and OpenStack API support.

This is a lot cheaper than Amazon and pretty competitive with low end providers (who do not offer triple redundant storage or SLAs).


----------



## fm7

willie said:


> Hetzner is cheaper than OVH at dedicated servers and I don't have the impression they're subsidized.



Many popular providers are "subsidized" by spammers ...


Just take a look at senderbase.org 



graeme said:


> The storage is high availability (triple redundant distributed Ceph FS), you get unlimited transfer,  a 99.999% SLA and OpenStack API support.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a lot cheaper than Amazon and pretty competitive with low end providers (who do not offer triple redundant storage or SLAs).



" About 5000 VPS are using this Ceph cluster. The deal is simple : it has to work even if we lose 66.66% of the hosts. Here *we lost 1 hard disk and it’s broken*. Once the data are UP, we will write the post-mortem and see if we can find out an another technology for the block storage" Octave


Fs#20636 — vps cloud 2016 - gra ceph



http://travaux.ovh.net/?do=details&id=20636


Octave Klaba / Oles ‏@olesovhcom (October, 2 after 17h outage due CEPH):
free month of course for all 5000 VPS ! sorry again for the downtime !


----------



## willie

graeme said:


> The cheapest OVH cloud offering is an EG-7 which gives you 2 vcores, 200GB of storage, 250 Mbps bandwidth for $28/month..



Oh yes, the public cloud stuff isn't so bad, especially since the have some very large instances available which can come in handy.  I was thinking of the so-called dedicated cloud where you seem to get two midrange dedicated servers for around $500 a month, with the ability to split them into VM's.  I don't remember the exact offering but it was pretty unattractive.


----------



## graeme

Ah, yes. That does seem rather expensive but I suppose the premium is for the load balancing, automatically moving VMs from a failed host, management of the hosts (not the VMs) etc. I have not idea how much of premium that is worth.


----------



## graeme

@fm7 not living up what it should do clearly but no data loss, right? If they did deliver the prices would be be very good, and, even as it is, they are pretty competitive.


----------



## fm7

graeme said:


> Ah, yes. That does seem rather expensive but I suppose the premium is for the load balancing, automatically moving VMs from a failed host, management of the hosts (not the VMs) etc. I have not idea how much of premium that is worth.






willie said:


> ...  I was thinking of the so-called dedicated cloud where you seem to get two midrange dedicated servers for around $500 a month, with the ability to split them into VM's.  I don't remember the exact offering but it was pretty unattractive.







*OVH* *Private Cloud *is powered by *VMWARE*.


The Private Cloud is a unique solution on the market providing the scalability of the Cloud on a 100% dedicated hardware infrastructure. The virtualization of your infrastructure is done using VMware technology and is fully managed by OVH.
All you need to do now is create unlimited VMs using the vSphere interface!


*OVH Dedicated Cloud*





vCenter + vSphere as a service


Enterprise Plus Licence included


AMD Hosts


Up to 2,000 VxLANs (inter VM)


_DC Starter Pack_


2 x AMD Opteron 4386 32 GB RAM

2 x Datastores 300 GB NFS

Center + vSphere

Licence Enterprise Plus included

$573.00/month


https://www.ovh.com/us/dedicated-cloud/


*OVH SDDC - Software Defined Datacenter*





A Software Defined Datacenter pack is comprised of at least 2 INTEL Hosts + 2 datastores or 2 VSAN hosts (soon), and of 4,000 vLAN to deploy your private networks.
Create an unlimited number of VMs and your own network services from the VMware® vSphere hypervisor and NSX.
Resize your infrastructure at any time by adding and deleting resources.


Software Defined Storage, VSAN - VSAN All Flash (SSD) Hosts for extreme performance, configured in RAID. Intel Hosts and NFS datastores also available.


Software Defined Computing , vCenter included - vSphere + Licence Enterprise Plus included to create and manage an unlimited number of VMs on fully dedicated hosts. .


Software Defined Network , NSX included - Firewall, load balancer, security rules… all these features are available from your vSphere.


_SDDC Start Pack_


2 x Xeon E5-1620v2 32 GB RAM

2 x Datastores 300 GB NFS

vCenter + vSphere

Licence Enterprise Plus included

NSX included

$777.00/month


https://www.ovh.com/us/sddc/


----------



## fm7

graeme said:


> @fm7 not living up what it should do clearly but no data loss, right? If they did deliver the prices would be be very good, and, even as it is, they are pretty competitive.





> The Ceph cluster is based on 24 servers. each with 12 disks.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> The main issue is the version of the 17 objects. The objects are in the version 696135'83055746. The version in the Ceph’s metadata is 696135'83055747. So Ceph doesn’t want to start. *We’ve forced to forget the bad files but it doesn’t work. Ceph is freezing*.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 4 action plans:
> 
> 1)
> we are patching the tool that can import/export the objects to force the version of the object to 696135'83055747. 1 team is working on this
> 
> 2)
> *we are looking how to restart Ceph wihout 17 objects*. an another team is working on that.
> 
> 3)
> *in the case, nothing works, we will start the Ceph without 6 PG, but it means lost of some data. we don’t know which data would be lost*. that is why we lauch a local backup of the data in the case we have to work on it and restore the lost data in the futur. it’s a strategy the « last case ». 1 team is working on that.
> 
> 4)
> we’are preapring the recovery of the data, but we are talking about 120TB. it will be slow, and the backup has 24 hours. 1 team is working on that
> 
> Regards,
> Octave






> *we lose 17 objets with 4/8MB each. so 100MB*





http://travaux.ovh.net/?do=details&id=20636


----------



## graeme

@fm7 I am a bit confused about what happened at OVH. So they did not lose data at first, but did lose data trying to fix it?


With regard to the OVH private cloud, I just have no idea what it should cost so I have no idea what the pricing should be. You could set up something similar on a dedi cheaper, but how much work would it be. I am a consumer of VPSs, so I have not idea how much work is involved that this system may save.


----------



## fm7

graeme said:


> @fm7 I am a bit confused about what happened at OVH. So they did not lose data at first, but did lose data trying to fix it?



They lose 1 HDD at first and then the entire Ceph cluster.due issues on 6 servers -- that Ceph cluster is based on 24 servers. each with 12 disks.


According to Octave's post:


"We think that Ceph was trying to write the data on the failed disk. Ceph has done it on the failed disk and updated the metadata, but Ceph hasn’t done it on the others disks."


Octave's rant:


About 5000 VPS are using this Ceph cluster. The deal is simple : it has to work even if we lose 66.66% of the hosts. Here we lost 1 hard disk [and there are ~300 HDDs in that cluster] and it [Ceph cluster] is broken.


----------



## fm7

graeme said:


> With regard to the OVH private cloud, I just have no idea what it should cost so I have no idea what the pricing should be. You could set up something similar on a dedi cheaper, but how much work would it be. I am a consumer of VPSs, so I have not idea how much work is involved that this system may save.



It is managed hosting -- shouldn't be compared to unmanaged dedicated prices -- and, if OVH intends to compete with “VMware Cloud on AWS”, I think OVH's Private Cloud is fairly inexpensive.


Said that I have "very little confidence" (none) in OVH -- in need of a VMware server I certainly would buy one from Junaid (Corgi Tech) .


*OVH disaster recovery plan*





Tarif *par VM* protégée: 30,00€ HT/mois


Octave Klaba / Oles ‏@olesovhcom Oct 12


#Ovh Plan de Reprise d'Activité Private Cloud @VMwarevSphere @Zerto https://www.ovh.com/fr/private-cloud/pra/ …


----------



## fm7

> [ OVH Asia-Pacific senior adviser, Emmanuel Goutallier]
> 
> 
> "... as we move towards a cloud business, it is moving towards a channel-centric model. We are looking to crystalise this strategy by March 2017."
> 
> 
> According to Goutallier, the vendor is seeking channel partners that can wrap services around its cloud offering.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> In the short-term, the company is looking to target SMBs and small enterprises as customers.
> 
> 
> “The enterprise play is not for now; it’s for later on," Goutallier stated. "We want to go against Microsoft, Google and AWS."
> 
> 
> The company will also soon launch a private cloud offering, that dedicates compute and storage resources to a customer in the OVH cloud - this will be done in partnership with VMware.
> 
> 
> “*Customers can pay as they go*, and it depends on their consumption – two key attributes of a public cloud on a hosted* private cloud*," Goutallier added.
> 
> 
> "VMware is a significant provider of virtualisation and when this launches, its partners can bring this offering to market."
> 
> 
> With 25 years experience in the channel across Europe and Australia, Goutallier was previously the global vice-president and general manager for managed cloud solutions in Hitachi Data Systems before onboarding OVH.
> 
> 
> Some of his other work stints include HP, Deloitte, and Accenture.
> 
> 
> The company has also hired Kimberley Plumridge as its Asia-Pacific sales manager, tasked with spearheading OVH’s channel partner program for the region.
> 
> 
> Plumridge joins the company from Huawei Technologies, where she served as channel manager following five years working at Telstra Business.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/608552/european-cloud-infrastructure-provider-ovh-lands-australia/






> ... Dell Inc. subsidiary VMWare Inc., whose representative Hervé Basso said his company had been working with OVH on its North American expansion from the beginning, and looked forward to helping both the company and its customers identify cloud services such as software-defined datacentres that could support them both immediately and in the long run.
> 
> 
> “Our partnership started six or seven years ago, when OVH was simply looking for good technology that would instituting a cloud and virtual hosting business,” Basso said. “Since then I have discovered that they are usually the first ones willing to adopt new technology, which sets them a bit apart from other companies in what we call our cloud network.”
> 
> 
> Basso said that OVH has become the sort of partner that VMWare involves in its own partnership planning, noting that the latter has already invited the former to several of its virtual cloud network planning sessions this year regarding more than one product offering, and that OVH is always quick to offer valuable feedback.
> 
> 
> “I believe our relationship is entering a chapter three,” Basso said. “Chapter one was a kind of mutual discovery… They were a different kind of company and a different type of partner… Chapter two we reinforced the partnership, and *OVH made the decision to adopt most of our latest software*… and now we are entering chapter three.”
> 
> 
> “Both companies are quite mature now, as is the relationship, and based on that maturity we’re expecting to scale the relationship further, starting with OVH’s international expansion,” he said.
> 
> 
> http://www.computerdealernews.com/news/ovh-relying-on-channel-partners-to-make-a-splash-in-the-canadian-market/50868








> OVH is looking to explode out of Europe as a global player in the data centre and cloud market. To do this it needs improved visibility around the world. By announcing a number of new data centres it is making it clear to customers that it has a global play. As it moves up the revenue stack from SME’s to larger enterprises, this global approach will be well received.
> 
> 
> http://www.enterprisetimes.co.uk/2016/10/12/ovh-turns-new-datacentres/






> OVH senior adviser Emmanuel Goutallier said the company didn't deliver any managed services, and expected to deliver at least 50 percent of sales through the channel by March 2017.
> 
> 
> "OVH's job and main objective is to offer an infrastructure-as-a-service using *baremetal* cloud *and* hosted *private cloud* products," he said.
> 
> 
> http://www.crn.com.au/news/worlds-third-largest-hosting-provider-comes-to-sydney-439446






> Klaba considers his competitors based on the market. In public and private cloud, naturally, OVH competes with Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure, and Google’s cloud platform, he said, though he does not see OVH as having competition in the dedicated server space, saying that such would-be competitors as IBM and Rackspace are just getting started, and no U.S. competition in the consolidation market at all.
> 
> 
> http://www.itworldcanada.com/article/french-isp-giant-ovh-further-expands-into-the-canadian-market/387278





"We want to go against Microsoft, Google and AWS" [1]


“We’re already doing large business. When we started in Canada back in 2013 I don’t think we had more than six people, and as we speak we currently employ more than 130.” [2]


"(BHS) now has 30,000 servers and the capacity for more than 350,000." [3]


"Fauquier’s first data center and OVH’s North American headquarters will be housed in a real estate investor Rajai Zumot’s bunker-like, single-story building at 6872 Watson Court. That 84,200-square-foot building and four smaller structures stand on the 8.6-acre parcel. For tax purposes, Fauquier values the property at $2.4 million. OVH hopes to complete purchase the property from Mr. Zumot’s Blue Rock LLC in November." [4]


"Amazon ... its U.S. data center network at about 700 megawatts of IT capacity, with as much as 500 MW of that total focused in US East. The company operates nine data centers in Sterling and six in Ashburn (with three more under construction) as well six in Manassas (with two more in the works). The company also has two data facilities in Chantilly, and is planning to expand its infrastructure into Haymarket in Prince William County.


Amazon standardizes its data centers to house between 50,000 and 80,000 servers. All three of the new Ashburn data centers are 149,000 square feet, as are three of the data centers COPT has built and leased in Manassas." [5]


[1] OVH Asia-Pacific senior adviser, Emmanuel Goutallier


[2] OVH’s VP of product and marketing for Canada Cédric Combey


[3] Eric Emin Wood - IT World Canada  - October 11, 2016


[4] Don Del Rosso


[5] Rich Miller


----------



## graeme

fm7 said:


> I have "very little confidence" (none) in OVH



Do you mean that with regard to their entire range of services, of  just these? A lot of people seem happy with their dedis.


----------



## fm7

Fortunately I'm not one them.


----------



## drmike

> When we started in Canada back in 2013 I don’t think we had more than six people, and as we speak we currently employ more than 130.



More welfare destruction economy.  Driving large sums of money and many customers to a single company that fails to invest in workforce or staffing.


130 employees is nothing.  Decent for a small business, but shit vs. customer headcount and revenue.  They have at least 30k servers installed in Canada.   That's an employee per 230+ servers.  Not a good ratio.


Same applies to many of these big vendors and their DCs.  These place often are ghost towns.  I fail to see how investing tax and local subsidies really has payoff.  For one it murders existing smaller competitors. Two it employs fewer people ratio'd vs. customers. Three, outside of utility taxation and some one time permits, there is little upside to local / regional coffers.


One could likely say that these DCs also tap the existing grid, put competition on power and cause rates to go up to local rate payers, instead of down and some instances cause local power company to spend outside of the market to bring generated power in.


Long term I can see Canada regretting giving OVH subsidies and inviting them in. Perhaps the whole France tie in and being Montreal area is somehow acceptable.  Financial investment in DCs needs radically changed with emphasis on fostering existing local/regional businesses.


----------



## graeme

Small businesses do not count as far as most governments are concerned. Policy is driven by what big business wants. How much corporate welfare can actually be justified by the public good? Subsidies are just more of the same.


I think the ratio is reasonable for the product, and they would certainly be more expensive if they had a lower ratio.


----------



## OnACloud

At the end of the day nobody in business likes competition.
What OVH are doing is being competitive in markets that they aren't in at the moment, By doing this there will be unhappy people...


That's business.


If you want to be the best, then you'd better be the best!


----------



## graeme

@OnACloud I think @drmike has a point about subsidies: competition is good (for the economy as a whole), but competitive pricing through subsidies is usually bad.


----------



## OnACloud

graeme said:


> @OnACloud I think @drmike has a point about subsidies: competition is good (for the economy as a whole), but competitive pricing through subsidies is usually bad.



I can agree with you there @graeme, @drmike certainly has a point about subsidies. However this is unfortunately happening everywhere at the moment with independents being bought up left right and center in all industries.


I believe however that OVH is not going to 'ruin' the hosting industry.. It's all about making your brand and what you are selling a point of difference between your competitors.


----------



## OSTKCabal

OnACloud said:


> I can agree with you there @graeme, @drmike certainly has a point about subsidies. However this is unfortunately happening everywhere at the moment with independents being bought up left right and center in all industries.
> 
> 
> I believe however that OVH is not going to 'ruin' the hosting industry.. It's all about making your brand and what you are selling a point of difference between your competitors.



True to a point, but the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of people in this industry are looking for a basic, competent service at a good price - and OVH beats most out in those areas. In no way is OVH perfect, but they have a clear mandate that is very similar to WalMart: Sell in bulk, sell cheap, sell everywhere. Many smaller companies simply cannot compete.


----------



## drmike

> clear mandate that is very similar to WalMart: Sell in bulk, sell cheap, sell everywhere. Many smaller companies simply cannot compete.



Again, prime example of the problem.


If we removed NAFTA trade deals which Clinton administration passed and similar trade deals and lack of import controls to level the flood gates, well, we wouldn't have had the rise of Walmart.   Incidentally, the Clintons received much financial handouts from the Walton/Walmart family (the very wealthy owners, not the poor workers).


Problem with Walmart isn't cheap, it's about vast majority of the store being MADE IN CHINA.  Meanwhile how many of their employees aren't paid enough to even feed themselves and pushed to the government hand out trough by Walmart corporate?  Tons.


Cheap and availability all over isn't a problem, that's actually a sales / marketing tactic and a decent one.  So is being opened 24 hours.


Walmart exists because of government deals that gut competition.


Same short sighted and selfish deals that fund data center deals of companies already big enough and companies subject to eat the real economy and put masses of people out of work.


----------



## OSTKCabal

drmike said:


> Again, prime example of the problem.
> 
> 
> If we removed NAFTA trade deals which Clinton administration passed and similar trade deals and lack of import controls to level the flood gates, well, we wouldn't have had the rise of Walmart.   Incidentally, the Clintons received much financial handouts from the Walton/Walmart family.
> 
> 
> Problem with Walmart isn't cheap, it's about vast majority of the store being MADE IN CHINA.  Meanwhile how many of their employees aren't paid enough to even feed themselves and pushed to the government hand out trough by Walmart corporate?  Tons.
> 
> 
> Cheap and availability all over isn't a problem, that's actually a sales / marketing tactic and a decent one.  So is being opened 24 hours.
> 
> 
> Walmart exists because of government deals that gut competition.



Innovation and providing a fantastic, let's-beat-everyone-else service also takes capital and a fair bit of it. I'd venture to say that it's more difficult for a small company to get hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, investments, and other debts to finance their company. Building on that, deploying a new location for a provider like us - one that owns our own hardware and IPs - is also a major investment, and not something we can do everyday. Certainly not at a competitive scale.


----------



## drmike

Monopolies and monocultures are built from large wealth stacks and often with the blessing if not conspiring of government.  Government can pretend to be hands off or often inept.  They are anything but such.  Greedy elected hacks padding their nest.  I give you deal, you give me $$$$, corruption.


As the saying long ago went:
Competition is a sin.


This is to say, the system is one of conspiring and of appearances of competition. This is in a fixed market where everything has 'matured' into situation where 80% or more of the market is controlled by a handful of companies.


Look around at everything you buy... How many computer companies are there making hardware?  Really there are a few mega corps making all the gear and more middle layer marketing companies rebadging the stuff as their own.  How many TV manufacturers?  Do we even have one left in the United States?  Probably only assembly being done in the US.  Look at food, at building materials, at energy, etc.  It has become the land of many billion dollar mega corps concentrating everything. Total domination.


That said, while I like the corporate financial 'should be there stability' of these McCorporation companies,  I refuse to buy from them.  Never have bought from OVH and never will.  Haven't stepped into a Walmart in 5 years I'd say.  I don't buy mega brand things and especially not at great cost.  Afterall, why should I, they are only selling commodity and usually inferior goods of limited durability.


We all need to do our part to vote with our dollars.  I support small business. Small businesses built this country and there are far more small businesses (even though growth of small businesses and failures in the past decade hasn't been good).


----------



## fm7

drmike said:


> Look around at everything you buy... How many computer companies are there making hardware?  Really there are a few mega corps making all the gear and more middle layer marketing companies rebadging the stuff as their own.  How many TV manufacturers?  Do we even have one left in the United States?  Probably only assembly being done in the US.  Look at food, at building materials, at energy, etc.  It has become the land of many billion dollar mega corps concentrating everything. Total domination.





The OTT Firms Rule Under the Waves


Facebook and Google attracted headlines earlier this month over their plans to jointly build a 120Tbit/s subsea cable across the north Pacific.


...


The Pacific Light Cable Network (PLCN), which will run from Los Angeles to Hong Kong at a cost of approximately $400 million, is due for completion in 2018.

But it's part of a bigger story about the OTT players' growing dominance of the global capacity business.


The big Internet firms account for most of the new cable builds and are about to overtake operators as the biggest carriers of bandwidth.

According to TeleGeography Inc., they already carry most of the traffic on the Atlantic route.


That's not including the massive MAREA cable, now being built by Facebook and Microsoft Corp.. The 160Tbit/s link will land in Bilbao, Spain, south of the traditional cable routes, to provide direct access to continental Europe.

TeleGeography research director Alan Mauldin estimates that private networks account for 39% of global traffic today and will likely account for the majority by 2019.

But "it could certainly be sooner," he adds. "The pace of growth these content providers are experiencing is incredible and it's difficult to know how it will trend."


...


... trans-Pacific capacity will be exhausted by the end of 2022. A capacity crunch is highly unlikely, however, and already a number of new systems are under discussion, Mauldin says.

He points out that, despite their growing dominance, the OTT providers still source some capacity from long-haul providers.

However, the problem for the wholesale carriers is that "demand is growing at a slower pace though overall, compared to the content providers' demand."


...


Fortune on the high seas


... with cables costing anywhere from $200M to $1B to put in place, only a few companies can afford to do this, and where they decide to place their cables will have a profound impact on how the future of the internet is developed.


...


Whichever companies take advantage of cables laid now stand to reap the rewards for the next decade. Equinix, in particular, has eagerly jumped into the field, announcing its involvement in 12 different projects.


...


“The biggest thing for us here is that the global backbone will point towards our data centers if we continue to execute and win more and more of these cables, which is very good for us and our customers,” said Ihab Tarazi, Equinix CTO.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

So I'm one of the people who pre-ordered OVH Singapore.  I guess this just happened.



> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)][SIZE= 13px]Hello,
> 
> You recently pre-ordered a dedicated server from our introductory offers for our new Asia-Pacific zone.
> We regret to inform you that we are currently encountering some constraints in setting up these servers. In order to ensure the best level of service possible, we must push back the delivery date of these servers to [/COLOR]*November 30, 2016**[/SIZE]*.
> 
> To compensate you for this inconvenience, we would like to offer you a free month of service. This gesture will automatically be applied upon delivery of your server with the expiration date being extended by one month.
> 
> If you no longer wish to benefit from this introductory offer, you may cancel your pre-order. This can be done from the invoice that you received in your order confirmation email. If you cancel your pre-order you will be fully refunded.
> 
> We thank you for your understanding and once again, we apologize for the inconvenience.
> 
> Thank you for your trust.
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)][SIZE= 13px]OVH Team[/COLOR][/SIZE]


----------



## fm7

*Octave Klaba / Oles* ‏@*olesovhcom* 2 hours ago 



We will move our 2nd POP from Thinx/Atman to Equinix. That is why the discovery offer is free until January.


----------



## StackNetwork

They are going to increase price too -


----------



## OnACloud

StackNetwork said:


> They are going to increase price too -



Haven't they already increased prices on orders before actually delivering any services?

I feel I have read this somewhere recently but can't find it, I think it's the case for Australian Services.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

I don't think so.


IU mean they did write that it'd be for new orders only.  Not existing orders.


----------



## fm7

Australia and Hong Kong are more expensive due connectivity and colo costs;.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Yeah Hong Kong has always been a little pain in the butt due to higher bandwidth costs.


I'm just glad Singapore's getting cheaper, but Hong Kong doesn't really seem to be.


----------



## fm7

Australia and Singapore higher bandwidth costs OVH "solved" capping data transfer. 
 



> ** Transfer rate up to 1 Gbps, reduced to 10 Mbps from 3TB/month.
> 
> 
> *** Average usage over the last 24 hours cannot exceed 100 Mbps.
> 
> 
> (100Mbps unlimited is available for an additional 50€ monthly).
> 
> 
> Singapore: https://www.ovh.ie/discover/singapore.xml





> ** Transfer rate up to 1 Gbps, reduced to 10 Mbps from 3TB/month.
> 
> 
> *** Average usage over the last 24 hours cannot exceed 100 Mbps.
> 
> 
> 100 Mbps unlimited (burst 1Gbps***): + €110.00 /month
> 
> 
> Sydney: https://www.ovh.ie/discover/australia.xml





However OVH is used to use cheap abandoned factory buildings, cheap retrofitted servers, cheap energy, cheap water cooling, cheap racks, no fire supression system,  but in Sydney it is using Equinix facility -- and in Singapore I guess OVH is colocating with Equinix as well:





OVH Singapore





OVH Singapore





OVH Singapore





OVH Singapore





OVH Singapore





OVH Warsaw (PL)





OVH Varsaw


----------



## HalfEatenPie

Been pretty busy but this email just came in.


Seems OVH Singapore and Sydney got bumped back 15 days more now.



> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]Hello,[/COLOR]
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]Due to a recent issue we are forced to push back the launch of the introductory offer in Sydney and Singapore. We estimate that it will take [/COLOR]*15 days *to resolve the matter.
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]The opening of a new datacenter in a new geographical zone requires us to deploy a new VAC (anti-DDoS system) infrastructure.  VAC works under a simple principal that permits the “vacuuming” of incoming traffic in the event of a DDoS attack.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]A couple of cases can occur:[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]The user is in close proximity of the datacenter, in this case we locally vacuum traffic at the level of the datacenter (for example, in Singapore). Because it is not conceivable to redirect traffic to other the other VACs in Europe or Canada (due to latency).[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]The user is in another zone (Europe, US...), in this case, traffic is will enter through one of our worldwide Points of Presence then be directed to the closest VAC. The goal is to avoid attacks being carried out on the entire backbone. The combination of these two techniques allows attack mitigation to be spread across the maximum number of VACs and increases security.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]However, the second case requires us to use a routing function that is not available in the software version that was deployed on the routers.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]We must update all equipment on the entire OVH infrastructure including in Europe and US/CA.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]We thank you for the confidence that you place in us and apologize for any inconvenience.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> [COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)] [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]The OVH team[/COLOR]


----------



## fm7

@HalfEatenPie


Have you got any news?


----------



## HalfEatenPie

fm7 said:


> @HalfEatenPie
> 
> 
> Have you got any news?



Nope.  


I actually forgot about this until now.  No deployment in Singapore nor any new news from them.


This is the 3rd time they've missed a deadline lol but we all knew that going in with OVH and new locations.


----------



## HalfEatenPie

fm7 said:


> @HalfEatenPie
> 
> 
> Have you got any news?



Just got this.



> Hello,
> Twenty days ago we informed you that we were having difficulty deploying our new VAC infrastructure (the anti-DDoS system) in our Sydney and Singapore datacentres.
> 
> The deployment proved to be more difficult than we had anticipated and we have therefore been forced to further delay the delivery of your pre-ordered solutions.
> 
> In fact, implementing this new infrastructure could have negative side-effects on the entire OVH network. As it is the festive and sale season, we are especially keen to avoid this and guarantee that our customers receive the best service.
> 
> We will keep you informed as soon as your server is available. To compensate for this delay, OVH is pleased to offer you one-month service for free; an opportunity for you to test our new datacenters.
> 
> Alternatively, you can still cancel your order from your confirmation email and get a full refund.
> 
> We apologize about this delay and thank you for the confidence that you place in us.
> 
> Regards,
> The OVH team





So... I wonder if I now get 2 months free instead of one?


----------

