# Raspberry Pi Zero Released



## HalfEatenPie (Nov 26, 2015)

Raspberry Pi Zero has been released!  


The 5 dollar board has the following specs:


1 GHz ARM11 core 
512 MB LPDDR2 SDRAM
Micro-SD Card Slot
Mini-HDMI Socket 
Micro-USB Sockets for Data and Power
an GPIO Header
Composite Video Header
All in 65 mm x 30 mm x 5 mm form


In addition, it's coming for free on every issue of The MagPi magazine in the UK!


What's even funnier, is that 6 Pi Zeros fit in an Altoids can!  


More information here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/


Anyone planning on buying this?  Any ideas what's in stored?  Tell us!


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## ChrisM (Nov 26, 2015)

and everyone is already out of stock... :'(


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## willie (Nov 26, 2015)

adafruit.com has some of the starter packs, I think.  The board plus cables, power adapter, and some other stuff.  They're out of the bare boards.


They advise against powering the board from a computer usb port since the board is so power hungry, the usb port voltage can sag, corrupting data on the pi's sd card.


Overall the pi0's main attraction is the shocking price point, though you give some of it back once you add the needed stuff to use it as an interactive computer.  It could be nice for some embedded applications but it's overkill for a lot of them.  Generally for that purpose, I'm more interested in the Cortex M4 class of board.  Or check the cheap ESP8266 boards, sort of in the same class as the Cortex M boards, but with wifi and available in the 3 dollar range.


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## aktifserver (Nov 26, 2015)

Thank you!...


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## drmike (Nov 26, 2015)

Now that's a promo, buy the magazine and get free hardware!


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## rmlhhd (Nov 26, 2015)

Ordered one this morning. Hoping to pickup another one tomorrow but don't know if the WHSmith's I'll be going to stocks The MagPi


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## GIANT_CRAB (Nov 27, 2015)

Internet of Things... without the Internet. It's quite disappointing that there's no built-in WiFi and Ethernet port. I guess those who need Internet will need to get a WiFi adapter or something. It's cheaper... so, oh well..


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## rmlhhd (Nov 27, 2015)

Mine arrived.


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## TheLinuxBug (Nov 27, 2015)

I would buy one except it seems that all the US companies selling it are only selling it in packages or have to be picked up directly at Microcenter (which for me the closest is more than 100miles away) so in the end no matter what choice I make, there isn't a way to actually get it for the small sum of $5.  By the time I would drive anywhere or buy the 'pakages' sold on adafruit it would be just as cheap for me to buy a pcDuino3 Nano Lite or even just buy a new RPi 2 for the $35 with free shipping.


Assuming you need the power cable and adapters, the price isn't horrible, my complaint is there is no way for me to actually get the board for $5 making the whole intention of this board a bit pointless since I would spend roughly as much buying it as I would buying something twice as powerful.


*TL;DR:*


I would love to buy one, but without wifi or ethernet and actually not being $5.00 its kinda a deal breaker as there are other boards out there for more powerful for about the same price.


my 2 cents.


Cheers!


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## drmike (Nov 27, 2015)

GIANT_CRAB said:


> Internet of Things... without the Internet. It's quite disappointing that there's no built-in WiFi and Ethernet port. I guess those who need Internet will need to get a WiFi adapter or something. It's cheaper... so, oh well..



I felt the same way about Raspberry Pi A (original)... no network ability built into it.


I still have that A sitting in my parts closet.


I could see tethering it directly to a desktop or other device with spare USB + network and sharing network over USB...   I've never done such, wonder how feasible that is under Raspbian....  Anyone?


Someone has a document that seems to probably be the ticket:
http://maemo.org/community/oldwiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/


(this is USB networking, minus any USB adapter... so just lowly USB cable)


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## willie (Nov 27, 2015)

The Zero has a USB client port but it's somewhat useless as a USB device because it uses so much power you need a separate power cube for it.  I wish someone would make such a thing that stayed 100 mA even if that meant being slower and having less memory.  Get rid of the HDMI and uses a router-style cpu (300 mhz) with maybe 32MB ram and it would be a very useful device.


There were some HN commenters favorable to the absence of wifi and staying off the IOT bandwagon, though I can also see how people would also want a wifi version.


I frankly wouldn't know what to do with the Zero board if I had one.  It would have more possibilities if they used the TI processor found on the Beaglebone, which has realtime coprocessors so you can run stuff like motor control, bit banging protocols, etc.  Hey, maybe the Beaglebone crowd will respond with a comparable super low cost board.


The ESP8266 and its ARM-based follow-on are much more interesting for IOT stuff.  I just hope the software gets easier to use.


http://hackaday.com/2015/07/13/new-part-day-the-esp8266-killer/


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## drmike (Nov 27, 2015)

I hate getting roped into the latest low spec craze 


What I like about this Pi Zero is the small gumstick-like dimensions.   It's pretty darn small.   Mounting one wherever shouldn't be a problem.


I think I am going to experiment with tethering some of these via USB (if I can find them later) or just stick to the model A for prototyping.


Even though these are essentially low cost, the high cost of parts still adds up.  Power USB hub $10,  SD Card $15,  USB power $10.  The hub and SD Card are mandatory.  USB power can vampire tether from a desktop / other device with enough power on USB.


So Pi Zero @ $5 (yeah right won't find it now) + $10+ + $15 = $30.. So we can build this caseless at $35~ or the price of prior models.


Now all that small size is sort of wrecked with the spaghetti heap of cables for things.   Wondering if possible to run the whole thing off 1 USB cable, including network and power (once configured) and just access it via SSH like I do everything.  Should be doable.  Single USB cable.  (yeah I have cables all over the place and am tired of the mess and space wasted by them).



willie said:


> The Zero has a USB client port but it's somewhat useless as a USB device because it uses so much power you need a separate power cube for it.  I wish someone would make such a thing that stayed 100 mA even if that meant being slower and having less memory.  Get rid of the HDMI



Unsure how much the HDMI eats up on power profile, but creating model without those parts on the board would be alright.  Plenty on non-GUI folks using these sorts of devices.


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## willie (Nov 27, 2015)

The HDMI is sort of ok on the bigger boards that people use as mini desktops but silly on this, which is mostly attractive for embedded.


USB tethering is iffy because of the power draw.  Computer ports often can't supply enough without voltage sag.  That's a big drawback of this board.


OTOH you can get cheap SD cards (under $5) and depending on what you're doing you might not need the USB hub.  The client port supports OTG, and you can do serial IO over the GPIO pins (I think there is a uart for that).


I think it's usual with these boards for supply to be limited at first, but then increase.  That happened with the RPi 2, which is a more interesting board in my opinion.


This is the low spec board I'm currently desiring: http://www.espruino.com/Pico


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## drmike (Nov 27, 2015)

I read somewhere about prior models of the Pi and while they've sold a lot relatively speaking, the numbers are far lower than I expected.


Literally prior models have sold few million units each.  3-5 million from what I recall.  Considering how prevalent these are and how many a number of folks I know own, yeah expected 10 million low side on units shipped.



willie said:


> This is the low spec board I'm currently desiring: http://www.espruino.com/Pico



What do you do with that board / would you do?


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## willie (Nov 27, 2015)

The Espruino board is cool both as a computer coprocessor (say for crypto, plug it into USB port and keep your crypto keys off the main system) and as a smaller and more powerful Arduino alternative, good for wearable and other mini embedded applications.  It's much nicer to program than an Arduino because of its interactive Javascript and it can also run Micropython and presumably eLua etc.  You can cut off the USB plug part of the board to make it smaller if you don't mind reprogramming through JTAG.  Also it has pads for an SMT crystal so you can give a realtime clock for about 1 dollar.  Too bad they didn't put that on the board to start with.


The ESP8266 boards are also crazy cheap, like 2 dollars from Alibaba.  That's a 32 bit cpu with wifi, SPI flash, and 64k(?) of ram.  Incredible.  See http://nodemcu.com/index_en.html for Lua that runs on them.


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## drmike (Nov 27, 2015)

The Pi 1 (A), on sale since February 2012, has sold about 4.5 million units in total.


The Pi 2 (B) has sold between 2.5 million to 3 million units since February.


Pi Zero has 10k in magazines free and another 20k out to distributors = 30k.


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## willie (Nov 27, 2015)

The Zero is brand new so of course the quantities are low so far.  They'll sell more but I see it as sort of a repackaging of the older RPI compute module that didn't get any traction.


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## risharde (Dec 2, 2015)

Would like to get my hands on one of these but why does it look like it doesn't have standard size usb ports... at least from the pictures...


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## drmike (Dec 3, 2015)

risharde said:


> Would like to get my hands on one of these but why does it look like it doesn't have standard size usb ports... at least from the pictures...



Correct.


The Zero has USB mini ports, two of them.  One is labeled on the board PWR for power - unsure if it is just for power or will function as full USB.


The connectors are a PITA and a cost center for buyers.  Here's why....  The HDMI is a mini variety, so that requires a cable many of us do not have and end side they are PITA to match up.  There are ~ 2 smaller HDMI types so possible to buy 2 different cables to cover basis.  Other end, need to convert out to whatever you are using.  I still have piles of VGA standard monitors so mini HDMI --> VGA.  Price of those connectors? $20-50 retail, $10 online.  Multiply by two if you want to be sure or lug your Pi to retail and defile open boxes to match it (places tend not be fond of this).


Great, now we need power.  Again, weirdo connector, there are roughly 2 mini USB standards.  Price of cable $10 each, maybe a bit more retail.  Problem is you need more ports for USB.  Need power + keyboard + mouse.  So you need a USB hub and ideally powered since RPI's are notorious for underpower states and quirky fails.  USB hub is $20-50 retail, maybe $10 online for import unbrand.


Still with all that, I left out fact that the board has no networking, nor does it have any wifi integrated.  So you have to purchase a network adapter (USB) or wifi adapter (USB).  Both are $10 online and twice that retail.


Lucky for me I have USB adapters for network sitting in a pile in parts storage.  The USB cables however, I am out shopping for those.  HDMI, I probably have one that will work, but it's in use on other gear, so out shopping for that and hoping I have the connector right.  


No wonder why these boards might start cheap (i.e. $5, $25, $35) but by the time you get done it's another $30-40 on top of that easily.  Making it meh, fatally flawed and expensive.  Two weeks from now I might end up with my parts (being cheap and ordering online).


I want to like the Pi's... But.... they are missing the mark.  Bundling cables and charging a bit more for that would be sane and increase suitability of the gear for normal people, schools, etc.  Unless you live in the Silicon Valley or have on the of few good retailers down the street for components, buying these is just an expensive novelty. Nearly everything else I buy comes with embedded storage module include and certainly comes with power cords.


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## drmike (Dec 3, 2015)

Also the Pi Zero lacks an LED to indicate power or any activity.


It isn't until you have properly formatted and loaded SD card in the slot and it goes through the boot process that you an LED illuminated.


Very short sighted and stupid approach on visual queues.  A bunch of people are going to think they have DOA boards and that will cause returns and gear abandonment to be artificially high.


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## drmike (Dec 3, 2015)

I just spent 2 hours robbing my parts stashes.


Got the Pi Zero tethered to a HDTV.   


It's slow as it gets.   Probably the fault of the SD card I have on hand.    So searching for a better one to try. Probably ordering one online again... these cards get lost just because of their size.


I am unimpressed all said.  I have a spaghetti heap of cables and parts just to get the damn thing going.  They sorely need an autoinstaller that just does the necessary and gives you notifications somehow when it's all done.    


Also, wifi dongles under noobs is retarded.  Two different dongles and neither detected in their setup front side.  One works just dandy post install in Raspbian.  


Now where I am impressed, is someone out there has done some power testing on the Pi Zero and with a few adjustments like LED turned off and the HDMI disabled and idle they have these down to 30ma power consumption.  That puts it down in more embedded controller / Arduino type space.   For me 30ma is a game changer with the right batteries.  Even if we bump that up to 50ma over 24 hours = 1200ma which is quite affordable per se for battery and corresponds to long life.  


Prior Pi's I've tethered to a pack have been meh, measured in hours like 4-6.


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## HalfEatenPie (Dec 3, 2015)

That's some pretty cool specs.  Thanks for sharing. 


Honestly, it's too low-level under-powered hardware that I don't think I'll actually end up getting it.  I mean it's cool as a novelty, but right now my Raspberry Pi Model B is sitting at work just monitoring the network and my Raspberry Pi 2 is at home running some light functions.  In the end, it's something that's cool as a novelty, but nothing much more beyond that.  


It's cool, and I mean it's really cool, but I don't see it doing much beyond nitch/very specific projects.


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## risharde (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks drmike, definitely not purchasing, too much of a hassle at this point in time, appreciate the detailed explanation!


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## drmike (Dec 3, 2015)

I am in a mode today monkeying with devices.  Been long on my list to clear my parts stash up - organize and get some gear back to usable state.


The Pi Zero is a single core BTW. 1Ghz allegedly.  512MB on board, but you are going to eat a chunk of that for reservation by the video chip (which is adjustable).  There is no audio.  Well technically, no headphone output.  You can get audio off the HDMI though, allegedly.


My goal is to get the Pi Zero online as a shell connected device and figure out how to slim the connector stack.  At minimum one needs power and USB NIC.  NIC can get shoved onto a cheap OTG adapter (have one laying around from Android device).  Power is a bit trickier.  1A power should suffice, so that's a mere 5 watts ceiling.  You can do that off nearly any USB in theory.  Power might be a good bit lower all said real world, especially with the LED turned off and HDMI off (which means we should be able to reclaim RAM otherwise going to video).


So how small?  Pi Zero is small. Is under the size of 3 fullsized SD cards put side by side.  OTG connect is a bit of bulk and a few inches of cable + the bigger fullsize USB. Probably can bend the cable, but long term stress might fatigue the connectors or cable.  The wifi can be itself barely sticking outside the USB end on the OTG.  


If and when I get that slim, the power issue remains on a tidy compact use scenario (think embedded or wearable).  Batteries are costly big picture and bulky.  Prebuilt flat packs exist - like what you use in cellphones.  That would be a decent setup, but need to find housing for the battery and way to affix the Pi to it or running cables to it.  For mobile and wearable, that's the ticket.


For perma embedded, meh, I am probably going to need to find a buck converter to step other power down and spit out USB plug side to the PWR plug on the Pi.  Unlike most, I want to bury things and not continue this habit of 500 wall warts and spaghetti wire.  


That leads me to 110-120V standard USB power to USB, but as a real electric part, not these silly wall warts.  This way I can tap main lines at junction point and install the module as part of the electrical build (where I'd like to see more devices and computing going instead of the fashion of it on desks and other surfaces or in racks which are meh unless you have rack gear and like living in an airplane hangar).  Real electric to USB isn't cheap.  Even end desk-side plugs with embedded USB are $30+ from electric parts suppliers.  Finding something in-line (much like we do with ahhh powering halogens and other gear in fixtures) isn't really out there - well I haven't seen such.  Expecting to be bled for it.  Alternative is cutting up this questionable conversion gear dumped out of China.  But burying that in electrical plant and inevitable fail is counted in months I'd guess.


Yeah, the Pi Zero is neat, but the whole form factor coolness, meh, it's not all that when you add up the pieces dangling for most use.


I think they named this one right  ZERO.  Highly niche.  If you got these for $5 or even free, swell.  Paying more than that, maybe $10 would be worth it.  Anything more and you will be disappointed.


Also, I was going to finally run some wire for DIY low-end 12VDC power.  Get that in place and put panels up come spring (yeah I have panels in storage).... I do have a 12VDC to 5VDC buck converter.... but it's sketchy import thing with lack of docs....  I may roll the dice for fun with this when all done...  These are likely alright for solar / off grid applications where you have space and tiny and clean isn't requirement, but low power is and needing fuller Linux environment (i.e. Raspbian/Debian).


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## wlanboy (Dec 10, 2015)

drmike said:


> For perma embedded, meh, I am probably going to need to find a buck converter to step other power down and spit out USB plug side to the PWR plug on the Pi.  Unlike most, I want to bury things and not continue this habit of 500 wall warts and spaghetti wire.
> 
> 
> That leads me to 110-120V standard USB power to USB, but as a real electric part, not these silly wall warts.  This way I can tap main lines at junction point and install the module as part of the electrical build (where I'd like to see more devices and computing going instead of the fashion of it on desks and other surfaces or in racks which are meh unless you have rack gear and like living in an airplane hangar).  Real electric to USB isn't cheap.  Even end desk-side plugs with embedded USB are $30+ from electric parts suppliers.  Finding something in-line (much like we do with ahhh powering halogens and other gear in fixtures) isn't really out there - well I haven't seen such.  Expecting to be bled for it.  Alternative is cutting up this questionable conversion gear dumped out of China.  But burying that in electrical plant and inevitable fail is counted in months I'd guess.



Second that.


It is cool to just plug things into USB to have power and data connection at once. But runnung it stand alone (adding WIFI or BT to power consumtion) doesn't make things easier.


Still looking for a good USB power that is LiPo buffered...


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## willie (Dec 11, 2015)

I'd worry about the pi0 itself failing if deeply embedded somewhere.  I don't think they build those things to the highest reliability standards.


The guy with that blog about power saving posted a correction, minimum power draw is about 80mA rather than 30.  That affects batteries of course.


I think the beaglebone did a better job with the usb network thing.  You plug it into a usb port out of the box and it appears as a network device, so you can ssh into it and start using it.  It also gets power from the same port as data. 


Given the costs of installation and electrical stuff, you can probably start out with a more expensive board without feeling it too much.  Olimex has some nice ones, for example.   Why do you want such a powerful computer embedded in a wall anyway?


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## drmike (Dec 11, 2015)

Embedding in structures is what I've always preferred. 


Geeks have had racks for years and that gets tricky, noisy, etc.  Form factor dictates rack.  Maybe if you are space endowed, that rack lives elsewhere in structure so you don't need to hear it and have space conditioned by the heat output, RF interference, etc.


With small stuff, why not building embed it?  I get nothing out of looking at unsightly heaps of cables, power gear, etc.  Does nothing for well being looking at these devices.  Being electric devices, I think they should ride on the electrical infrastructure outright.   Thing exactly like transformers do for various lights and gear in homes and commercial space.


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## JahAGR (Dec 12, 2015)

I think the Zero will find a fair bit of use in embedded stuff where a microcontroller might typically be used (probably just hobbyist grade but still). Form factor looks pretty similar to an Arduino Micro, the GPIO ports should make interfacing pretty easy, and there is still a USB port and the power of a full OS on tap if required.


For non-microscopic low power Linux applications I still like the Banana Pi - I feel like it has a great feature set for the price (and all the different kinds of IO without needing adapters is nice)


When the "$5" Zero actually becomes $5, I will pick up a few to play with. Will probably be waiting a while though if previous Pi releases are anything to go by...


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## KuJoe (Dec 12, 2015)

If anybody in the US has a RPi Zero that they are not happy with or have no current use for, I'd be willing to buy/rent it from you so I can do some comparison testing.


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## Neo (Dec 13, 2015)

Eh, added my self to like 5 email alerts, got none atm.


Actually wanted to buy 2 of them for 5$.


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## InfinityDaniel (Dec 13, 2015)

Yeah the Raspberry Pi's have always been cool in my opinion but the Raspberry Pi Zero is even cooler! very small computer but still has some good specs and for the price!


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