# Opera - great but privacy sucks



## drmike (Aug 7, 2013)

I am a long time Opera user.   I've liked Opera since it isn't directly owned by the pig corporatists at Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.

Wasn't happy when they started shoe horning Google as the search provider.  Certainly miffed that their Android version defaults to Google and won't let you add/change that to something else.   So on Android I've all but deleted Opera.

On the desktop, it's blah ha blues.  Won't mess with Chrome since owned by Gaggle.  Won't touch Firefox since 90%+ of their revenue comes from Google directly.  Doesn't leave popular options for a linux desktop user.  (Recommendations?)

Back to Opera,  one of the desktop extensions for it I find very good is Ghostery which helps block bad sites.   Since I run with javascript off (javascript isn't a feature, it's a problem) I noticed (should have eons ago) that Ghostery and other extensions require javacript to work.   So if you ax javascript, the extensions get axed too.   That's not a feature and nothing in Opera notifies you of such incompatibility of sorts.

For Android, I've started using Zirco Browser ... Found it via F-Droid 

Generally speaking, all browsers in light of the data collection revelations, suddenly are feature-light to featureless to address real needs.  Like temporary whitelisting, temporary javascript enabling (say for 15 minutes on a site).   Doing all sorts of cut and dice on-off on a per tab basis.


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## bizzard (Aug 7, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Doesn't leave popular options for a linux desktop user.  (Recommendations?)


What about clones of Firefox and Chrome? I use Iceweasel and Chromium in my laptop and I believe they don't have much things built in to track. Plus I could also use the popular firefox/chrome addons, which are a must for my work.


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## drmike (Aug 7, 2013)

bizzard said:


> What about clones of Firefox and Chrome? I use Iceweasel and Chromium in my laptop and I believe they don't have much things built in to track. Plus I could also use the popular firefox/chrome addons, which are a must for my work.


Those are the alternatives and hardly alternatives sort of.  They have to be highly suspect, right?  Just sane to scrutinize them.

Hoping all our collective mistrust and fear of sorts leads to new alternatives that spring from the ashes.  This might be what it takes to upset the apple cart of the merchants in the temple of control.


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## Shados (Aug 7, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> I am a long time Opera user.   I've liked Opera since it isn't directly owned by the pig corporatists at Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.
> 
> Wasn't happy when they started shoe horning Google as the search provider.  Certainly miffed that their Android version defaults to Google and won't let you add/change that to something else.   So on Android I've all but deleted Opera.
> 
> ...


Well, in Opera's next major version release they're swapping their layout engine etc. to their own Chromium fork, so the weirdness with javascript & their extensions will be "solved" by them using Chromium extensions, I guess. Assuming you still want to use Opera after the changes, you'd just have to wait, I guess.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2013)

Iceweasel is an 'alternative' in that Debian refuses to package out anything other than FOSS by default.  Given that Firefox is also Open Source (but not FOSS), I have no problems with using it.  I have full control over the browser, I can check and compile source myself if I'm worried about anything - and I only contribute to their income if I want to.

For me, it's not so much about "corporations are evil".  That's pretty much a given.  But I'm not going to hate on a useful product just because some/any/all of the group's income comes from a source that has done things I dislike.  Indeed, as much as I dislike Google's data collection, I'm not completely writing them off.  I just take control over my data, and limit/eliminate how much they can see or use.

It's worth keeping in mind that years back, Google themselves were one of the 'new alternatives to spring from the ashes'.  A new hip, down-to-earth group that revolutionized a good portion of the web.  Everyone loved them.  Then inevitably, they went corporate.  Circle of life;  even if Google does eventually get replaced, you'll only have a good few years before the same thing happens with the next guy.

Now, regarding your browser request - why not just stick with the environment standard?  Rekonq is fairly slick, and integrates with other KDE apps very nicely.  I'm sure the Gnome equiv does the same (not a Gnome user myself.. Fluxbox/KDE only).  Hell, if all you want is a simpler web, you could even to links or links2.  For me, I use Iceweasel and Aurora (beta FF) - I have full control over what they can see, and I have the source to dig through whenever I feel a little paranoid.


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## drmike (Aug 7, 2013)

> Iceweasel is an 'alternative' in that Debian refuses to package out anything other than FOSS by default.


Definitely going to give Iceweasel another look.  Plugins are semi-important for many reasons, so ideally it is compatible with Firefox plugins. 



> as much as I dislike Google's data collection, I'm not completely writing them off.


I am done with Google.  I can't think of anything dumber to be engaged with than them.  They are deceivers and serial liars (where is our resident Jew referencer).  Masters of PR and social manipulation.  Data collection is the spear point and starting point with them.   Did we like the mass project for free voice calls to signature print people and advance their machine learning of voice to text transcription?   Face recognition, a GPS tracker in every pocket, bio sensors in every pocket, etc.  Progress and enabling by them has become a portable distributed prison.  Everyone has a full time monitor now and a big digital profile record, even if they aren't aware of it.



> Google themselves were one of the 'new alternatives to spring from the ashes


Google was government funded like the rest of them.  Nothing organic whatsoever about their coming of age and takeover of many markets.  You should note how they've been totally absent from laws on copyright all this time while profiting directly from massive piracy.  You try doing that and you'll end up worse off than Kim Dot Com.  Would we expect anything different spun from Standford University?  If it wasn't for DARPA and military funding Standford along with the other tech U's Gaggle recruits mainly from would have long ago proven unsustainable to operate as a place of education.

Track back in time and you'll find the teclos busted spying with the feds and disallowed to be doing such.  Out of that came some of the dotcom bubble and the rise of these "private" corporations who go way beyond what the telcos were limited to then monitoring wise.  They productized spy devices and got the naive to pay heftily for the devices, services, etc. that are necessary for the charade to continue. 

Funny, Gaggle being this huge corporation can't sell much of anything.  Entire model is to use filthy advertising money (their one hit wonder) to underwrite and bankroll maniacal total loss leader services.  If you look at advertising and where Gaggle has suckethed from you point to television, radio and newspapers (magazines too).  All those media methods have been more than neck deep government controlled, sponsored and regulated since their infancy.  It's just more of the same ole mass brainwashing.  Google, no fncking way.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2013)

In the spirit of 'fighting the man' however.. wouldn't taking one of their tools (say.. Android) and ripping out what they actually wanted to put out there (GPS tracking/etc), leaving yourself with a fully functional device you have complete control of, courtesy of 'the enemy', actually be a good thing?  Even if Mozilla falls into this mess somehow.. you're still taking a perfectly useful tool (Firefox) and doing only what you want with it.  That seems much more a victory to me then having to fight with half-ass written FOSS software that doesn't quite do what you want (or worse, not finding a FOSS app at all to do what you want).


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## Tux (Aug 7, 2013)

@buffalooed and @Aldyric: Iceweasel is a fork of Firefox with Debian-specific patches. It has 100% full support for Firefox plugins, as Iceweasel is almost 1:1 with Firefox.


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## perennate (Aug 7, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML

Web (used to be Epiphany, it's GNOME's web browser) uses WebKit though.


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## drmike (Aug 7, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> ripping out what they actually wanted to put out there (GPS tracking/etc), leaving yourself with a fully functional device you have complete control of, courtesy of 'the enemy', actually be a good thing?


Oh, I do agree with that concept.  Still a tad weary.   I am not inclined to get up to snuff and auditing every bit of code just to disprove my suspicions.   I mean, I was weary of corporations (I don't believe they should exist except for a small duration of a project --- certainly not indefinitely).  But, the level of spying and undermining and financing by the US intelligencia exceeds even the day dreams of envisioned horror.

Going to try to make Iceweasel work and see if it will cut it. 

Certainly hoping for more alternatives that are open source in spirit and privacy minded in reality.


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## Zach (Aug 7, 2013)

I like how you can sign into Google Chrome and sync your browsing history between all of the devices you use.  Very convenient, but obviously a bit disconcerting.  I've never really tried Opera, but I've been slowly moving away from Google products.

I agree, I hope more open source alternatives pop up soon.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 7, 2013)

Zach said:


> I like how you can sign into Google Chrome and sync your browsing history between all of the devices you use.



That's the self-hosted Firefox Sync (aka Weave) I was discussing in another thread.  Many browsers have this capability.. Firefox/Iceweasel is the only one I've found so far that lets you easily do it yourself without having to rely on their servers.


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## concerto49 (Aug 7, 2013)

The new opera is now just crippled chrome.


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## Shados (Aug 8, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> The new opera is now just crippled chrome.


Yeah, Opera Next is currently pretty bad. Most of what I like in Opera is missing from it. Still, they haven't said anything about release timelines yet, so I have hope they'll get it up to scratch before releasing it.


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## bizzard (Aug 8, 2013)

Chromium, the base on which Google Chrome is built is also nice, though I use Iceweasel most of the time as it uses less memory when opening around 10 or more tabs.


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## Magiobiwan (Aug 8, 2013)

I honestly don't really understand why people are SO EXPECTANT OF PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET!!! Governments will find ways to track your usage regardless, and overall how much of an impact does it REALLY make on your life? *Not that much, unless you're doing something illegal/of questionable legality.* Privacy on the internet is overrated. If you really want privacy, go get a hammer, and destroy your modem. Your cellphones too. There, no more government spying via the Internet.


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## KuJoe (Aug 8, 2013)

I use Midori on my RPi but for all other OSs I'll always use Chrome. I think I used Chromium once but switched back to good ol' Google for some reason.

<3 Google.


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## stim (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm using Opera + Ghostery and it seems pretty good here. I have heard that javascript can be a security issue - can you give an example?  

Although I am not so paranoid, I do want to move away from Google completely. They are a dishonest company - not only in terms of privacy, but in their tax affairs as well. Their pernicious need to categorise and control - with or without users' consent - is a genuine concern.

What's your recommended way to definitively block all google analytics on a VPS?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 8, 2013)

I can't tell if Magiobiwan is serious, or simply incredibly naive.  Let's hope for his clients that the above post was just a joke... because that's one HELL of a scary position for a *provider that has access to your data* to have.


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## drmike (Aug 8, 2013)

Magiobiwan said:


> I honestly don't really understand why people are SO EXPECTANT OF PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET!!! Governments will find ways to track your usage regardless, and overall how much of an impact does it REALLY make on your life? *Not that much, unless you're doing something illegal/of questionable legality.* Privacy on the internet is overrated. If you really want privacy, go get a hammer, and destroy your modem. Your cellphones too. There, no more government spying via the Internet.


Is this a joke?

People expect privacy in their paper and effects.  When I pick up the phone and there is someone else uninvited on my call, that's a tap interception and clearly illegal unless court ordered for specifically me.   It isn't a bulk free-for-all order.  Requires some tiny speck of probably cause.

Even if you smash your modem and go offline, you still end up being snagged into it.  Many if not all voice providers of landline services backhaul things into VOIP and the 'net.   

Every insurance company, medical facility, customer facing business seems to have customer records tethered into the net these days.

Government can do what is legal and prudent, based on realistic data.   Riffling through every vehicle coming down the road to their checkpoint is BS.  I don't want or need or see the wisdom in government tracking and tracing everything.  It just builds "intelligence" noise on everyone.   Everyone is a suspect then.  A government that distrusts everyone should be distrusted, no, they should be dragged from their offices and terminated.


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