# Vpn providers banned by Visa and Mastercard



## mikho (Jul 4, 2013)

Just read this : https://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vpn-providers-130703/



> There’s an unwritten rule that Mastercard and Visa don’t accept file-hosting sites that have an affiliate program and PayPal has thrown out nearly all cyberlockers in recent months.
> 
> 
> It now turns out that these policies have carried over to VPN providers and other anonymizing services. Before the weekend customers of the popular Swedish payment service provider Payson received an email stating that VPN services are no longer allowed to accept Visa and Mastercard payments due to a recent policy change.


Thats something to get around. Will we see an increase usage with bitcoins after this? Increase in different "companies" selling the service to use your credit card to get vpn access?


Or will this be the increase in personal vps usage as vpns?


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## MartinD (Jul 4, 2013)

I would say the latter. I don't think BitCoins are quite popular and mainstream enough to see a major switch in that direction. Coupled with the fact a lot of people who want to use VPN services are trying to get round the GFoC. I think it's a good move, personally. I don't see any legitimate reason for being completely anonymous on the net.


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## maounique (Jul 4, 2013)

As usual, anything against the market and legal services will fail.

people will go to alternate means and this can only benefit the market overall. One day we will have more payment processors outside US control, the more market there is for them, the more independent the payment processors will become.

paysafe cards are perfect for the job.

@MartinD Au contraire, mon ami, paypal/visa/mastercard were ways to link the VPN user to the person by tracing the money, with paysafe, for example, there wont be any way to do that, they are shooting themselves in the foot, activists and oposition will be even harder to track.

Criminals dont need VPNs, so this is targeted exactly at the undesirable free speech activists, civil liberties in general.

You see, nobody cares US government ibs not only breaching international law spying on the world citizens, but also own constitution spying on own citizens without warrants. Nobody seems to care, in the past this brought presidents down, now, since no secret service people need to enter political parties headquarters and they read everything through the wires, it is all perfectly fine.

from this to kidnapping and disposition of "enemies of the state" is just a step which could have been done already.


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## rds100 (Jul 4, 2013)

@Mao i generally agree, but it's not only the USA who wants to control, censor and monitor the internet. The EU  tries to do this too, China, Russia, the arab nations, etc.

While paysafecard provides relatively good anonymity for the buyer, it's not good for the seller - because there is no good way to cashout your paysafecards.


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## maounique (Jul 4, 2013)

rds100 said:


> While paysafecard provides relatively good anonymity for the buyer, it's not good for the seller - because there is no good way to cashout your paysafecards.


Yet, but the market is growing and where there is a need there is a way.

At least EU tries to push laws to do this, while the US does it outside their own laws, including the constitution. In EU the governments are still responsible tot he citizens, in US this was lost many years ago.

On topic, soon VPS and shared hosting people will be banned too since both can be used to do VPNs of some sort.

And, of course, anonimity=child porn, terrorism, drugs, democracy, freedom, free speech, circumventing censorship, lots of dangerous things.


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## stim (Jul 4, 2013)

According to this article:



> ...Visa Europe says: "Visa Europe has not been involved in this matter in any way, and has not made any such stipulations to Payson or to any other organisation.


and



> It appears that the issue may be down to Payson's acquiring bank, rather than MasterCard and Visa.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 4, 2013)

I love it when a legitimate concern gets bullrushed into a "County X is worse than Country Y, and always at fault" spectacle, and the original topic goes undiscussed.


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## EarthVPN (Jul 4, 2013)

Use Bitcoins


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## joepie91 (Jul 5, 2013)

MartinD said:


> I don't see any legitimate reason for being completely anonymous on the net.


Others do. And generally, it's a bad idea to base rulemaking on lack of ability to see/understand/recognize something.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 5, 2013)

I don't see having an opinion as a lack of ability.  To flip that on you, it's generally a bad idea to base rulemaking on lack of accountability and a general sense of entitlement.


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## maounique (Jul 5, 2013)

Lack of acountability we can see at the US government which dismisses own constitution when it doesnt suit them.

The 4th amendment is still in it yet nobody seems to care, and most important, nobody paid for breaking the cosntitution yet and it is highly unlikely for anyone to pay.

Since the law does no longer protect the citizens, they have to defend themselves and their rights in any way they can.

Using VPN or Tor is one of the ways. Governments dont like it and are making steps to block it, be it US, Iran, China or arab governments, they are all united in regard to spying and censoring their citizens and the inconvenient truth.


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## KuJoe (Jul 5, 2013)

Yet people still have and use cell phones regularly. Pocket-sized devices with built in cameras, microphones, GPS, and an always on public internet connection... I love it.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 5, 2013)

Mao said:


> Lack of acountability we can see at the US government which dismisses own constitution when it doesnt suit them.
> 
> The 4th amendment is still in it yet nobody seems to care, and most important, nobody paid for breaking the cosntitution yet and it is highly unlikely for anyone to pay.
> 
> ...


I'll be damned... you mentioned other countries aside from the US in one of your politihate rants for once.  This pattern keeps up, you might finally accept that government == control, regardless of the country;  and maybe then we can get some thoughtful conversation instead of the same anti-US crap that seems to be spoonfed to.. well, most folks that have never actually lived in the US <_<  Let me know when you set up residency in Shangri-La.. I hear the houses aren't quite so glassy there.


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## wlanboy (Jul 6, 2013)

Mao said:


> Using VPN or Tor is one of the ways. Governments dont like it and are making steps to block it, be it US, Iran, China or arab governments, they are all united in regard to spying and censoring their citizens and the inconvenient truth.


Woho - calm down. Don't talk about any country you did not visit. And stop talking about *the *us or *the *arab.

And please use your tor client to access a vpn to log into facebook and publish some gps tagged pictures of your childs.


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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> . well, most folks that have never actually lived in the US


Yes, many countries have good education systems, in many places the majority does not believe the official propaganda, even when done on "private" channels.

I am surprised you do not comment on the fact that the constitution is the last collateral damage int he fight against the evil haters abroad. I wonder how long until EU will be deemed an official enemy and all communications with said entity will be monitored.

It is not long, we have freedom fries, then EU is protesting against spying, therefore they have something to hide and many people there speak publicly against US policies abroad, and even medling in our internal affirs talking about constitution and civil liberties, this is proof enough EU is a bunch of haters which forgot we helped them against Nazis and communists, thank god we still have a lot of bases there and can strike them at any time.

I wonder how many countries will be on the blacklist of US sanctions in 20 years time ? if there will be anyone still living then.


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## rds100 (Jul 6, 2013)

A little offtopic, but still related


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

Mao said:


> Yes, many countries have good education systems, in many places the majority does not believe the official propaganda, even when done on "private" channels.


And many countries, spoonfed into believing anything they hear about "the evil US", will eat that up willingly and form a stereotype that distracts them quite nicely, gives them something to feel superior to all the while their government does the exact same thing to them.



Mao said:


> I am surprised you do not comment on the fact that the constitution is the last collateral damage int he fight against the evil haters abroad. I wonder how long until EU will be deemed an official enemy and all communications with said entity will be monitored. It is not long, we have freedom fries, then EU is protesting against spying, therefore they have something to hide and many people there speak publicly against US policies abroad, and even medling in our internal affirs talking about constitution and civil liberties, this is proof enough EU is a bunch of haters which forgot we helped them against Nazis and communists, thank god we still have a lot of bases there and can strike them at any time.


  

Oh, how cute, you think I'm an American.  Yet one more example of an uninformed, uneducated assumption.  How about you stop being such a naïve child, and start realizing that government == government no matter what flag they fly.  EU protests spying?  Bullshit son, I grew up in east EU under the red flag.  The only reason a politician will 'denounce' such action is in attempt to assure their citizens that they aren't actively _doing the same damn thing_.  And you actually believe what a politician tells you?  More the fool, you.

It's time for you to grow up.  Once you're ready to actually learn how governments work, I'd look forward to some intelligent discourse.  If you insist on spewing that spoonfed hate and bashing specific countries like an uneducated bigot?  Go back to LET, that shithole was made for you.


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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Go back to LET, that shithole was made for you.


Well, if you ban me here too, I will.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

HAH.  You cry about 'government propaganda' (despite being a very clear example), and yet STILL try to convince yourself that I ever had any sort of power at LET?  The forum owned/operated by CC/CVPS?  Classic Maounique - when backed into a corner, make a desperate attempt to change the subject.

Now, if you're quite done with your uneducated bigotry, it's time to stop derailing this thread.


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## kaniini (Jul 6, 2013)

MartinD said:


> I don't see any legitimate reason for being completely anonymous on the net.


Whistleblowing?


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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> HAH.  You cry about 'government propaganda' (despite being a very clear example), and yet STILL try to convince yourself that I ever had any sort of power at LET?  The forum owned/operated by CC/CVPS?  Classic Maounique - when backed into a corner, make a desperate attempt to change the subject.
> 
> Now, if you're quite done with your uneducated bigotry, it's time to stop derailing this thread.


When you banned me because I was pointing out your problems with the network you were flatly denying at that time and now you blame on your former host not massive overcommit, and which started to be confirmed by many other people, CC had nothing to do with LET/LEB, I was not even involved with Prometeus, was on 2nd of april LAST YEAR when BuyVM was fully in control.

You left LEB/LET after being proven a liar and abuser as well as manipulating things behind the scene, much worse than CC does today.

So, if you think the people forgot what you did (not to mention the name calling and personal attacks) I can point them to the thread(s). Are you sure you wish me to do that ?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

Mao said:


> You left LEB/LET after being proven a liar and abuser as well as manipulating things behind the scene, much worse than CC does today.


I left LET because it started to fill with kids like you.  Got proof of ANY of your accusations?  Nope, thought not.  Bottom line kid, you cry when you get backed into a corner, and start telling lies about other people to try and take the attention away from you.  I invite you to prove  where I was "proven a liar", "abuser", or "manipulated things behind the scene".  You can't.

Once again, you try to change the subject.  Just walk away kid, before you make more of an embarrassment of yourself.


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## mikho (Jul 6, 2013)




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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2045/openvpn-speeds-from-eastern-europe-from-various-providers/p1

You can watch them in that thread denying that they have any network problem, in spite of many evidence of the contrary posted by a lot of people. Afterwards they admitted it and blamed it on the DC, even tho it was obvious for everyone that 5k customers with 500 MB of traffic if we consider were all on the lowest plan could have not fitted in 2 gbps in any way shape or form.

BuyVM improved their network a lot since, but at that time they thought it is better to ban me than address the real problems.

What is sad is that he continues to deny it in spite of all the evidence and starts again with the name calling when the arguments are non-existant.


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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

Hum, looks like double-post...


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

So, where exactly is your proof that I was running things behind the scenes?  Or that I banned you?  Or that I "was proven a liar and abuser"?

Exactly.  No proof, just more crying from you.  If it weren't for your punishing lack of grammar and coherence, I'd honestly think you were just another alias for Fabozzi.

So, are you going to address any of the prior things I brought up, such as your bigotry and how you seem to love hating on governments while denying your own does the same?  Or are we conveniently ignoring that now that you're trying oh so hard to change the topic?


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## maounique (Jul 6, 2013)

I do not believe any arguments have been shown that the US government is not breaking the constitution, as for my own doing the same, perhaps, but we do not give lessons of democracy.

I have no information my government is forcing providers to give them a line to their email servers, this is unheard of in a democratic country. I am also not aware my government is spying on US people, if you have some proof, by all means, show it.

What I do know is that the President has been re-appointed by US and EU after being booted at the referendum and is using the spy agencies to listen to the phones of political opponents (everyone, really) and find some hints of out of context stuff to make false accusations and demand their resignation. That is true and the national security wiretapping has little justice control, but that is a thing very far fromt he scope of US spying, from phones to text, to email to drones, etc.

As for my grammar and typos, fine, you found a weakness perfectly in line with the subject and which does not derail the thread a bit... heck, you can write in russian, i know that language too as well as French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Bulgarian, German, Greek and a few others that I can read. I may not be able to write them correctly, but how many can you write incorrectly ? If we are to attack each other on education grounds.


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## KuJoe (Jul 6, 2013)

I've noticed that pizza tastes better in Colorado than it did in Florida... and I loved pizza in Florida.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

Ahaha, alright, we're back on track now.  The grammar bit you can disregard - that was exactly how I phrased it.  Were it not for the vast difference in the way you and Chris Fabozzi, I would've assumed you to be him merely in the style of dodge/redirect in response to direct accusation.

Anyways.  Here's the issue_ _mec... the *country* is irrelevant.  Government == control.  You will never find me defending the US (or any country's, really) government - the point I've been pushing is that you will take damn near any topic, and turn it into some anti-US rant.  Yeah, we get it, you don't like the US.  I don't quite care for that place either, but fuckin' hell I'm not going to spew hate in every thread I'm in just because I can.  You have to learn to tone that down a bit.



Mao said:


> I have no information my government is forcing providers to give them a line to their email servers, this is unheard of in a democratic country. I am also not aware my government is spying on US people, if you have some proof, by all means, show it.


The hell are you talking about?  I never made claims of countries spying on other countries' citizens.. I don't even know where you live (don't bother telling me, I don't really care, you're not that important) - but as it was obvious that English was not your first language, it was a pretty fair assumption that you weren't American.  Now, if you're asking if I have any proof of <insert country here> spying on it's citizens?  Get real, and brush up on your history.  This practice has been going on for CENTURIES, by _EVERY_ country.  It's only due to the development in technology over the past few decades that us 'normals' have become so aware.

Anyways, bottom line - the underlying topic in your rants is GREAT discussion material (no sarcasm).  But your presentation needs some work - and to be taken seriously... lay off the holier than thou crap, it gets old.  We can barely have three new threads anymore without reading your "the US is evil" crap in one of them, regardless of topic.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I've noticed that pizza tastes better in Colorado than it did in Florida... and I loved pizza in Florida.


 

Franchise pizza, or the mom'n'pops?


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## KuJoe (Jul 6, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Franchise pizza, or the mom'n'pops?


Both. I think it's the water they use or maybe the altitude. Either way, I'm attempting to embrace this new thing that is spreading rapidly on vpsBoard where you reply to threads without reading anything else in the thread. I guess I still suck at it because you and I are having a understandable conversation though.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, we're offtopic though, so that's gotta count for something <_<

Amusingly back on topic - Dominos cockblocked an order I placed the other day due to the VPN at work.  Understandable when you look at -why- they rejected it... but still annoying.


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## KuJoe (Jul 6, 2013)

Oddly enough, I have to login to a VPN to order anything online at work because all of our traffic is routed through the home office in Florida so the distance thing causes problems. It also doesn't help that Google Maps shows an empty lot for our data center because it was just built so most delivery places online won't accept it and the Dominos drivers who use their Android phones for GPS always call to tell me if they show up and there isn't a building there they won't stop. I blame my work for building a data center in the ghetto.


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## maounique (Jul 7, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> The hell are you talking about?  I never made claims of countries spying on other countries' citizens.. I don't even know where you live (don't bother telling me, I don't really care, you're not that important) - but as it was obvious that English was not your first language, it was a pretty fair assumption that you weren't American.




English is not the first language for Americans either, unless you are talking about US, parts of Canada, belize, bahamas, etc. Most of the western hemisphere is not speaking English but some romance language or romance based such as spanish, portuguese, french, creole, etc.

Now, regarding you not making claims about countries spying on other countries citizens, you said US government is doing the same as the other governments when I told you in other countries is different. Let me put some lines here maybe you see the differences easier:

- Most other countries governments dont break international law and own consitution by spying on other people and own citizens without the proper legal entitlements (I am not talking Iran or Syria or China or Zimbabwe here, but the countries which are generally considered democratic). If that happens, it is punished whenever discovered, while in US the one which discovered it is punished.

- Most other countries are not fighting religious wars and support religious bunker states in breach of UN resolutions, states guilty of war crimes while claiming they support democracy and human rights.

- Most other countries try to better the education system and bring information and science to the forefront of progress, in US the schools still fight for the right to teach against religious "facts" with the scientiffically proven ones in order to make a new generation of religious fanatics ready to die for their god in the upcoming crusade.

There are other issues such as the view on aids and healthcare system where only the rich should survive, the state aid for the big loss making corporations because they contribute to "lobby" as it is known the institutionalized bribing system while preaching transparency and competition to others, when they are printing money and preach austerity, so on and so forth.

While I am not sure if the educational system is bad enough for a generation and the current one is dumbened enough not to realize what is going on, I think that the old and the part of the new that still thinks will make a majority that will change things in the next 10 years. If that does not happen, people like you will dictate the world policy with such a disastruos effect that I am not sure anyone will survive. Eventually, even US might will crumble, but might do so at a very high cost for the world, perhaps the ultimate price.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 7, 2013)

Don't really care Mao.  Save the lectures for someone that might actually believe you know what you're talking about, and instead focus on the primary issue, which you stampeded in your rush to _rant yet again._



Aldryic C said:


> the point I've been pushing is that you will take damn near any topic, and turn it into some anti-US rant.  Yeah, we get it, you don't like the US.  I don't quite care for that place either, but fuckin' hell I'm not going to spew hate in every thread I'm in just because I can.  You have to learn to tone that down a bit.


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## MartinD (Jul 7, 2013)

Oh hello, LET.


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## mikho (Jul 7, 2013)

@Mods, perhaps split the offtopic part into a new thread?


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