# WeServeIT - Datacenter query (split)



## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

weservit said:


> TrueVPS was part of WeservIT that's right. We worked out a good deal with RamNode for their NL location. One of the terms for this deal was that we had to stop offering activities from TrueVPS. All TrueVPS customers will be transfered to RamNode hardware as you can read in the email Nick sent.
> 
> RamNode has a high reputation and we're sure that all TrueVPS customers will be in good hands.
> 
> Enjoy your RamNode VPS!


How come you told us via Skype that it was your niece or cousins or whatever and was totally unrelated except the part they utilised your network?

To slightly confirm:

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/297115/#Comment_297115


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## weservit (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> How come you told us via Skype that it was your niece or cousins or whatever and was totally unrelated except the part they utilised your network?
> 
> 
> To slightly confirm:
> ...


TrueVPS was a child company from WeservIT (like we have WeservCloud and RouteLabel) managed by another family member that's right. (WeservIT is a family business). With RamNode as our customer we saw an opportunity we couldn't resist, especially because RamNode belongs to the top VPS Hosters around here. WeservIT customers already have advantages of this step. We expanded our network with additional premium 10Gbit/s connections to offer the best performance around the globe.


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## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

weservit said:


> TrueVPS was a child company from WeservIT (like we have WeservCloud and RouteLabel) managed by another family member that's right. (WeservIT is a family business). With RamNode as our customer we saw an opportunity we couldn't resist, especially because RamNode belongs to the top VPS Hosters around here. WeservIT customers already have advantages of this step. We expanded our network with additional premium 10Gbit/s connections to offer the best performance around the globe.


You mean increase network capacity to +10Gbit/s since you don't run your own network but buy off Proserve/Open Peering?

I guess people can make believe whatever is stated, all the best to RamNode.

Also hopefully you don't limit their ports to 100mbps when they start reaching 1gbps like we did when we transferred out of you guys and had to threaten to post WHT review for you to give us back what we paid for when we were moving everything out of you guys to a more honest DC.


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## weservit (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> You mean increase network capacity to +10Gbit/s since you don't run your own network but buy off Proserve/Open Peering?


I believe that when you have your own AS, have multiple carriers (multihomed) and do your own BGP routing you can call it your own network. We have a trunk with multiple Gbit/s links to Proserve as we can get redundant links from them. Next to that we have Jointtransit with a 10Gbit/s connection over different fiber paths, but they have only one MPLS device in Dataplace so that won't do for our redundancy to only use this link. For shorter and better routes we also have a 10Gbit/s connection to Openpeering which consists AMS-IX, NL-IX, DE-CIX, LINX, LONAP and France-IX.

Our network is fully redundant, we use 2 routers and we are multihomed. Transport to Amsterdam is done over 4 different fiber circuits utilizing diversified building ingresses.

Our core network has 100% uptime since we moved to Dataplace 2 years and 2 months ago.

I'm sure that customers from RamNode will have a great experience with their NL VPS. Just open Twitter and look at the first impressions  

As already mentioned before by RamNode, but you can always contact us in case of a question.


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## Nick_A (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> all the best to RamNode.


For some reason, I get the sense this isn't a genuine statement.


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## Lee (Aug 15, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> For some reason, I get the sense this isn't a genuine statement.


Not sure why 

On a side note I am trying out the Netherlands side of Ramnode, all very very good.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 15, 2013)

W1H-Lee said:


> Not sure why


Because Nick not having any trouble there wouldn't go too far towards validating the guy's complaints.  He just kinda waded in dick swinging, knowing full well that talking trash about the upstream could hurt Nick's sales.  If he wasn't just out for blood, the polite thing to do would've been taking his concerns to Nick directly and privately.


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## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Because Nick not having any trouble there wouldn't go too far towards validating the guy's complaints.  He just kinda waded in dick swinging, knowing full well that talking trash about the upstream could hurt Nick's sales.  If he wasn't just out for blood, the polite thing to do would've been taking his concerns to Nick directly and privately.


 

I did PM him on IRC (Re: Network), he didn't reply so I assumed he doesn't care so just letting general public know of our experience with the DC. Is that an offence?

I also remember talking to Nick about the whole TrueVPS fiasco few weeks back when they first launched.

You need to get off your high horses and calm yourself or get some anger management with something totally unrelated to you, I can validate all statements with email and skype proof if required to anyone with our experience.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> I did PM him, he didn't reply so I assumed he doesn't care so just letting general public know of our experience with the DC. Is that an offence?


Not that I know of.  But if you did PM him first, then hattip to you for that sir.



INIZ said:


> You need to get off your high horses and calm yourself or get some anger management with something totally unrelated to you, I can validate all statements with email proof and skype proof if required to anyone with our experience.


You probably shouldn't make base assumptions about soft commentary from passerby?  Trust me, it takes much more than you can dish to get me angry   If you really feel the urge to start dropping chatlogs as some sort of validation, I would recommend doing so in the Reviews section instead of derailing a Ramnode thread.


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## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Not that I know of.  But if you did PM him first, then hattip to you for that sir.
> 
> You probably shouldn't make base assumptions about soft commentary from passerby?  Trust me, it takes much more than you can dish to get me angry   If you really feel the urge to start dropping chatlogs as some sort of validation, I would recommend doing so in the Reviews section instead of derailing a Ramnode thread.


I didn't want to, we stayed away from saying anything bad about WSI but now that they admitted about TrueVPS


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## Lee (Aug 15, 2013)

Am I missing something?  Where did they deny it?  Your LET link states





> Nothing bad I believe indeed. TrueVPS is another brand (with another registration), WeservIT and TrueVPS are not completely the same, but some parts are indeed. WeservIT fucuses on the high end market while TrueVPS is more for budget. Both are using the same facility, we are using another network mix and have WeservIT's mix for backup. WeservIT has a high reputation on the internet and is in business since 2008, so more reason to order VPSes from TrueVPS I believe


Seem like they are admitting the connection.  Your previous comment seem to confirm the connection too. Oh well, hardly seems like a CVPS type denial anyway.


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## Nick_A (Aug 15, 2013)

So because I don't respond to an IRC PM means that it's your duty to trash upstream publicly over a past gripe? You're mistaking a lack of concern with a lack of respect; i.e., I don't care what you have to say in the first place. I don't think Aldryic took it quite far enough--the polite thing to do is state your concerns privately and leave them private. Posting publicly about past grievances in another provider's thread indicates only your selfish desire to interject.


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## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

Nick_A said:


> So because I don't respond to an IRC PM means that it's your duty to trash upstream publicly over a past gripe? You're mistaking a lack of concern with a lack of respect; i.e., I don't care what you have to say in the first place. I don't think Aldryic took it quite far enough--the polite thing to do is state your concerns privately and leave them private. Posting publicly about past grievances in another provider's thread indicates only your selfish desire to interject.


Well the thread is related to TrueVPS and coincidentally the owners who _were_ behind it. If they kept to their original story that it was truly owned by someone else then it wouldn't have me going wild.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 15, 2013)

Iniz's reasons for moving from Weservit/proserve were never disclosed to customers and was something he wished to keep quiet, I can understand why if your provider who you just got started with was using your marketing ideas and suddenly targeting the same area as you but not directly "under Weservit"  but setup as another brand. Definitely shady tactics there, regardless.

Your all barking up the wrong tree abit, you can see clearly Patrick was asking a question about TrueVPS and how WSI told him different, and with response to that WSI mentioned the network upgrade..

Its all chit chat, i wouldn't get to butt hurt, atleast Ramnode won't have to compete with its providers newly formed brand.

Reece.


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## Quexis (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> How come you told us via Skype that it was your niece or cousins or whatever and was totally unrelated except the part they utilised your network?
> 
> 
> To slightly confirm:
> ...


Just to clarify, that LowEndTalk comment completely contradicts the content of your post. Nowhere there does it mention family, and nowhere there does it discredit any/all relation between the two.



INIZ said:


> I did PM him on IRC (Re: Network), he didn't reply so I assumed he doesn't care so just letting general public know of our experience with the DC. Is that an offence?


He was probably doing something more important like working on the nodes, responding to client tickets, or getting what little sleep he's able to catch these days. There's three of us that work at RamNode that are around on IRC pretty much 24/7. Instead of hitting up anyone else, you just took the silence from Nick as admission of guilt?



INIZ said:


> You need to get off your high horses and calm yourself or get some anger management with something totally unrelated to you


I feel this is more relevant to you than it is to Aldryic.


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## Patrick (Aug 15, 2013)

Well lets link to correct posts first


1.

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/297104/#Comment_297104


2.

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/297109/#Comment_297109


First it was collocation with same DC then a partnership with WSI and now they said it was fully owned by them?


Since 2-3 people have clearly been engulfed by flames in there brains here or IRC, I'll happily leave the thread.


If admins honestly want me to show claims to support anything stated on pg1 I'll happily do so privately but I'd rather not completely tear down what was once a fair honest company and Proserve network was top notch


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## Kruno (Aug 15, 2013)

INIZ said:


> Proserve network was top notch



It's actually pretty crap, among worst ones in the NL together with Serverius. Coming from someone who has used dozen of NL datacenters/networks in the past few years. 

You were also very luckily to jump to Proserve network without knowing if DDoS would continue, because if your UK attacks continued it'd take Proserve offline completely. How do I know? Well, we were there around 2 years ago and our DDoS took their network completely offline for the whole weekend. Around 500k PPS syn flood aimed to IPs without ARP entry, hence packages ending up to routers directly. They couldn't figure it out, was a big deal back then. Thumbs up to LeaseWeb network and their *real network engineers *that figured out and patched this type of vulnebility almost instantly. Proserve was like "sorry man, nothing we can do, you are effecting our enterprise customers who pay tons of euros, you have 5 hours before we null all your subnets, get out".

In all honesty, the provider you currently use in the NL Patrick, is one of top ones, most likely the best in the NL at this time. I would bet NFOrce has more network capacity on a rackswitch and can push more real bandwidth on a single rackswitch than Proserve could do on their whole tiny network combined.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 15, 2013)

Kruno said:


> Coming from someone who has used dozen of NL datacenters/networks in the past few years.






Kruno said:


> Well, we were there around 2 years ago and our DDoS took their network completely offline for the whole weekend.


... who/what are you hosting that's painted such a huge, repeated target on your back?   The way you phrased that makes it read like you've had to move from one DC to another due to DDoS following in your wake >_>


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## Nick_A (Aug 15, 2013)

Let me clarify something here - whether Patrick had real issues with WSI or not doesn't really concern me. The setup I have there is nothing like what he had, and I didn't blindly walk into a deal. My company's reputation is frankly more valuable than most around here, so you better believe it took some serious conversations and research to expand to EU like we have.

Now, what bugs me to no end is when someone makes a clearly disingenuous statement while posting with ulterior motives. Again, I'll refer to this:



INIZ said:


> all the best to RamNode.


If there were any genuine concern, it would have been left in that ignored PM on IRC. If there are grievances to be voiced, get your own thread or PM those involved. That is what irks me about this conversation. Cut the crap.


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## Kruno (Aug 15, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> ... who/what are you hosting that's painted such a huge, repeated target on your back?   The way you phrased that makes it read like you've had to move from one DC to another due to DDoS following in your wake >_>


The attack was aimed directly to my back, still no idea who, probably a competitor. It took 2 datacenters offline completely(Proserve and Serverius) until I found some decent ones - had 3 big migrations, ~1k customers back then. You would think Proserve did the the worst but if you read my story with Serverius(posted at WHT some time ago) you would be laughing to death. 3 hours of DDoS while we were on Serverius, effecting their whole network, all Serverius was doing was nullrouting our /23. Next day I received like 3k eur invoice for their work, 1k eur was for explaining their customers why they had a packet loss(yes, it was written on the invoice!). [sARCASM]What? You guys didn't have to pay that much when you had DDoS' ?? Well, that's because Serverius has some serious badass CCNA's working on the network - all their customers are saved![/sARCASM] o0

P.S Serverius thought SYN-ACK from our machines during SYN floods were our customers attacking others, then causing revange DDoS back to us. What a theory lol! I guess they don't learn that on CCNA, hope they at least spent some of 3k I donated them(read: was blackmailed for) to get some CCNPs and decent education ;P

EDIT: Nick, I don't think you made a mistake but with ~5 years of hosting experience behind me with all kind of providers within the NL, I honestly think you could have done much much much better. Best of luck to you and RamNode though!


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## drmike (Aug 15, 2013)

Always interesting to read about things outside of my typical facility/vendor/upstream focus.  NL starting to sound a lot like the common UK facilities and past year of endless attacks and inability to block them.

I think folks (justifiably) get angry when those they deem competition sound one liners that ring in their ears like a bell.  

I trust Nick stewed over the deal long and hard and asked the tough questions.

All the DDoS talk and offlining whole networks, ouchie!  Let us all hope that the mentioned networks and companies today are able to deal with things they couldn't in years past. Few years back, MANY facilities could be punted offline and were with simple traffic based attacks.


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## Patrick (Aug 16, 2013)

I guess bufalooed is right, latency wise and when not under ddos it was good to be honest. Some of WSI clients got ddos and it brought all our servers down which were in different racks however can't comment on size.


But kudos to WSI I guess as it was resolved quickly I guess.


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## weservit (Aug 16, 2013)

INIZ said:


> I guess bufalooed is right, latency wise and when not under ddos it was good to be honest. Some of WSI clients got ddos and it brought all our servers down which were in different racks however can't comment on size.
> 
> 
> But kudos to WSI I guess as it was resolved quickly I guess.


You are right. We have multiple Gbit trunks to Proserve, but in case of a DDOS attack sent by a single mac address the loadbalancing protocols don't work correctly. It happened that one of the Gbit/s links went full and this caused problems. Like you say we got it managed very quickly because we receive instant notifications and we can nullroute it immediately by our self. That's why we expanded our network to 10Gbit/s links a few weeks ago to make sure it doesn't happen again. We had to wait on new equipment and setup times from our carriers to deliver the new connections.

I can't give any specific information about RamNode's setup I'm afraid, but they have all hardware in 1 rack and their own 10Gbit/s switching. Other nodes, RamNode customers or WeservIT customers won't be affected in case of a DDOS attack.

Thanks!


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## Terminator (Aug 16, 2013)

INIZ said:


> Some of WSI clients got ddos and it brought all our servers down which were in different racks however can't comment on size.





weservit said:


> Our core network has 100% uptime since we moved to Dataplace 2 years and 2 months ago.


100% core network uptime without counting _numerous_ ddos attacks mentioned above where "your" network was fully or partialy affected? It's clearly not 100% and I don't see why to lie, we arent half-retards u know. First lie about TrueVPS, then lie about uptime is there anything else u wanna lie about?


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## Reece-DM (Aug 16, 2013)

Kruno said:


> It's actually pretty crap, among worst ones in the NL together with Serverius. Coming from someone who has used dozen of NL datacenters/networks in the past few years.
> 
> You were also very luckily to jump to Proserve network without knowing if DDoS would continue, because if your UK attacks continued it'd take Proserve offline completely. How do I know? Well, we were there around 2 years ago and our DDoS took their network completely offline for the whole weekend. Around 500k PPS syn flood aimed to IPs without ARP entry, hence packages ending up to routers directly. They couldn't figure it out, was a big deal back then. Thumbs up to LeaseWeb network and their *real network engineers *that figured out and patched this type of vulnebility almost instantly. Proserve was like "sorry man, nothing we can do, you are effecting our enterprise customers who pay tons of euros, you have 5 hours before we null all your subnets, get out".
> 
> In all honesty, the provider you currently use in the NL Patrick, is one of top ones, most likely the best in the NL at this time. I would bet NFOrce has more network capacity on a rackswitch and can push more real bandwidth on a single rackswitch than Proserve could do on their whole tiny network combined.


I can vouch for Kruno's past experience with those DC's they screwed him over majorly and to be quite honest the attacks wasn't big compared to what have been measured before. Very tight operation krun has, he is lucky to recover from such incidents. in regards to the attacks, they was targeted towards him and a few other providers at the time (If i recall correctly) much like the UK fiasco, chances are it was a competitor with access to Hackforums and numerous booters.

Skids aye! -- It's good to see an improvement from Proserve/WSI though if they have upgraded some stuff..


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## imperio (Aug 16, 2013)

Is it the only me recognizing WSI as wholesaleinternet 

My shopping list for DC in NL:

1) Leaseweb

2) Nforce

3) Global-Layer

4) Ecatel

5) Serverius


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## Patrick (Aug 16, 2013)

imperio said:


> Is it the only me recognizing WSI as wholesaleinternet
> 
> My shopping list for DC in NL:
> 
> ...


i3d is pretty good too


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## imperio (Aug 16, 2013)

INIZ said:


> i3d is pretty good too


Indeed.I have used them before however they are out of my list for a negative experience not caused by their fault.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 16, 2013)

imperio said:


> Indeed.I have used them before however they are out of my list for a negative experience not caused by their fault.


But you include Ecatel and Serverius in the list??.. Interesting.


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## Kruno (Aug 16, 2013)

imperio said:


> Is it the only me recognizing WSI as wholesaleinternet
> 
> My shopping list for DC in NL:
> 
> ...


1 and 2 are the top.

Global-Layer has hardware in a nice datacenter but it's single homed to AtratoIP which may be going out of business soon - you see why single homing is bad!), probably due to Atrato's extremely cheap bandwidth. False advertising of Atrato uplinks in sales thread also doesn't help his case. His support is good though. 

Ecatel is errr. old hardware, budget network and poor uptime followed by several network outages in the last few months. Support may be rude sometimes. 

Serverius and Gijs are dirty scammers. Avoid like a plague unless you have to be blackmailed and have too much money on your hands.


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## imperio (Aug 16, 2013)

Reece said:


> But you include Ecatel and Serverius in the list??.. Interesting.


My shopping list is my personal experience and I did not have an issue with yet.Thats just simple.


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## imperio (Aug 16, 2013)

Kruno said:


> 1 and 2 are the top.
> 
> Global-Layer has hardware in a nice datacenter but it's single homed to AtratoIP which may be going out of business soon - you see why single homing is bad!), probably due to Atrato's extremely cheap bandwidth. False advertising of Atrato uplinks in sales thread also doesn't help his case. His support is good though.
> 
> ...


I also dislike being single homed on global-layer however no issues yet.I didnt have any issues with serverius either.Ecatel is on the list for some specific reasons.

My Node's last 30 days uptime with 1 minutes http check.

1) Leaseweb %100

2) Nforce %100

3) Global-Layer %100

4) Ecatel %99.65

5) Serverius %99.97


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