# DMCA Talk at SlashDot.



## TruvisT (Jul 3, 2014)

http://ask.slashdot.org/story/14/07/03/169230/ask-slashdot-hosting-services-that-dont-overreact-to-dmca-requests

Interesting as always.

How does everyone here handle DMCAs? I will agree that they are thrown around like candy.


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 3, 2014)

Legitimate ones are looked into, and handled depending on the situation.  But the vast majority of the ones I receive (such as Kev Adam Nguyen's recent DMCA attempt of @drmike's profile picture, an image I can date back to at least 2008) are either tossed out, or in the case of aforementioned example, replied to with scathing mockery.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 3, 2014)

The DMCA gets abused so much that you really need to look into having your own IP space

just so you can better manage them.

For instance, Frantech was heavily targeted to gameservers (runescape, some Lineage 2, lots of Ragnarok Online, etc), we got no less than a dozen DMCA's a week that were fraudulent and usually not even a single one *a month* that was legitimate.

The problem we had was at least one of our datacenters forced us to kick customers out even though we proved the DMCA's were illegitimate (they were sent from a freaking @hotmail and things like that).

It's a horribly abused law.

Francisco


----------



## raindog308 (Jul 3, 2014)

So I've heard various BuyVMians say on IRC and such that 


BuyVM has Canadian IPs and as such robo lawfirms don't bother with DMCAs
It's kind of a weird strategic advantage for BuyVM
If you torrent child porn, Aldryic will call the FBI and some three letter agencies to have you extraordinarily rendered by way of Egyptian prison
I personally (steps closer to the NSA microphone) would never violate the sanctity of copyright law.  Even when it's some film noir movie from the 1940s in which everyone concerned in production is long since dead and has never been released on DVD and someone rips from a Turner Classics broadcast and puts it on KAT, I would of course feel completely morally violated to download that because Hollywood profits are very important.

But if I _did_...I'd do it on a seedbox overseas.


----------



## Francisco (Jul 3, 2014)

See that's just it.

You'd have no idea how many DMCA's we've been sent for movie/TV torrents, etc, for IP space that isn't even announced, never mind routed to a customer.

I swear they simply shotgun at IP owners and hope at some point it'll work.

We're very close to the point of requiring certified mail for it all.

Francisco


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 3, 2014)

Francisco said:


> You'd have no idea how many DMCA's we've been sent for movie/TV torrents, etc, for IP space that isn't even announced, never mind routed to a customer.


This.  _Copyrightsettlements.com_ is a notorious one - they're one of the "Pay us money to not get prosecuted for these torrents we 'detected'" groups (like UCEProtect is on SBLs).  I used to receive literally dozens per day from them before I blocked their domain entirely - and *maybe* one out of ten was an actual in-use IP.  If I had to guess, I'd say I probably investigated close to 500 of their claims, and out of all of that, only two clients they "reported" were actually torrenting.

Both were seeding Linux distros, and nothing else.


----------



## raindog308 (Jul 3, 2014)

Aldryic C said:


> Both were seeding Linux distros, and nothing else.


Yeah, but all that is copyright SCO, so those are legit DMCAs.

_*khaaak*...let go...can't...breathe...just a joke..._


----------



## splitice (Jul 3, 2014)

Aldryic and Fran do a great job with incorrect DMCA's. Given the number of game servers we host, we get to see quite alot of Fake DMCA's. But never any that get forwarded from Frantech


----------



## Francisco (Jul 3, 2014)

raindog308 said:


> Yeah, but all that is copyright SCO, so those are legit DMCAs.
> 
> _*khaaak*...let go...can't...breathe...just a joke..._


Some days I truly think you're the king of all trolls.

Then Aldryic tells me about his latest visit to the HR office.

Francisco


----------



## BlaZe (Jul 5, 2014)

It depends on the situation and origin of the DMCA complain. Mostly it is generated by bots to pamper the hosts.


----------



## Schultz (Jul 5, 2014)

If I may ask; what happens when a provider does not "reply" to a DMCA? (if they own the said IP space)


----------



## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 5, 2014)

Nothing. DMCA are takedown requests, nothing more than "do what we say or we'll sue you" letters.


----------



## texteditor (Jul 6, 2014)

splitice said:


> Aldryic and Fran do a great job with incorrect DMCA's. Given the number of game servers we host, we get to see quite alot of Fake DMCA's. But never any that get forwarded from Frantech


Didn't know this was a thing, certainly sounds a lot cheaper than renting a booter.



Boxode said:


> If I may ask; what happens when a provider does not "reply" to a DMCA? (if they own the said IP space)


When I worked for the netsec team in uni, part of our job was sifting through the hundreds of DMCA that got passed through the *[email protected]* email address for the campus and residential networks. Even bothering to verify what is/isnt legit is a time-waste so internally we just sent a 'stop it' email to the user, and externally we just didnt respond, ever.



raindog308 said:


> Yeah, but all that is copyright SCO, so those are legit DMCAs.
> 
> _*khaaak*...let go...can't...breathe...just a joke..._


well done


----------



## splitice (Jul 6, 2014)

texteditor said:


> Didn't know this was a thing, certainly sounds a lot cheaper than renting a booter.


Only it doesn't work, too this date 3 suspensions handled out. Only one that was counter-claimed (we are usually pretty good with identifying them). Out of probably ~100 received.

Most of the complaints aren't made under the penalty of perjury, any complaint without this should be ignored. Right now I could email admin [at] frantech.ca (OrgAbuseEmail)


Hi,

The site address hosted at 198.251.81.213 (vpsboard) is infringing on my rights.

URL: #1
URL: #2

Ill totally sue you, your family and your horses!!!

Regards,
Some random internet user

And without stating it under penalty of perjury Frantech would have a very hard time pursuing me for damages.

Most false complaints will suspiciously be forgetting to include this. If you do by any chance have a legitimate complaint, use a DMCA template - it usually expedites the process and includes all the required statements and points.


----------



## Schultz (Jul 6, 2014)

splitice said:


> Only it doesn't work, too this date 3 suspensions handled out. Only one that was counter-claimed (we are usually pretty good with identifying them). Out of probably ~100 received.
> 
> Most of the complaints aren't made under the penalty of perjury, any complaint without this should be ignored. Right now I could email admin [at] frantech.ca (OrgAbuseEmail)
> 
> ...


Not the horses!


----------



## eddynetweb (Jul 6, 2014)

Boxode said:


> Not the horses!


The irony.



splitice said:


> Only it doesn't work, too this date 3 suspensions handled out. Only one that was counter-claimed (we are usually pretty good with identifying them). Out of probably ~100 received.
> 
> Most of the complaints aren't made under the penalty of perjury, any complaint without this should be ignored. Right now I could email admin [at] frantech.ca (OrgAbuseEmail)
> 
> ...


This. I wonder how many people actually fall for the "DMCA" requests that are not valid.


----------



## splitice (Jul 7, 2014)

eddynetweb said:


> This. I wonder how many people actually fall for the "DMCA" requests that are not valid.


A lot of the time there isnt a whole lot of say in the matter, upstreams require action within tight timeframes, and counterclaims take time and need to be completed by the end user - often well down the chain. Furthermore alot of upstreams will terminate customers for a large number of complaints regardless of legitimacy. Some providers (I could name and shame a few) are particularly bad, while others are of course quite reasonable. 

At the end of the day however, you need to asses why it is you are getting these complaints. If you are doing something, and its legitimately generating falsified DMCA's then make your upstream aware of it, they might be able to SWIP the IPs or advise their staff to ensure special handling. If the DMCAs are legitimate, well thats different...

False DMCAs (and abuse complaints in general) can make a very dangerous weapon, as our society is very risk adverse, and rightfully so the legal ramifications can be immense. I have never seen the results of a study regarding legitimacy of DMCAs, but I imagine the DMCAs sent to the likes of KAT, Google, etc would outweigh false ones.


----------

