# Summer 2013 - 4GB No wait... 8GB?



## Reece-DM (Jul 17, 2013)

Thought I'd take a peak at LET today and feck mine they're on a rampage it seems to push below the normal 2GB for $7 offers, this time I'm seeing many people trying to compete with the 4GB + Offers from WaveRide etc. But nope hang on, someone had to do it *8GB?*



> * *Location: Chicago
> 
> KVM
> 4 x CPU Cores
> ...



Odd thing is, its KVM apprently?.

I wonder what 2014 brings? Numerous Deadpoolers? Bank rupt owners? Who knows.. I certainly don't want to see 4GB + being sold for under $7.

Bit over the top if you ask me.


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## wlanboy (Jul 17, 2013)

Well that's CC magic.

You're right. These offers are obvious overselling/deadpoolers.

But there are 2 GB offers for 4$ a month too.

Where do you draw the line?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 17, 2013)

That's pretty damn sad. It's a pure win for ColoCrossing if it's one of their 'clients', though. Even if it deadpools, they can either just repo the gear to give to someone else, or let their house VPS brand absorb the failed company's client list. Which honestly is what that whole situation has looked like to me from day one - fabricate competition with ridiculous sales in order to quickly build clients, just to let the company die and grow the in-house brand by refugees.


Makes Russel and Constantinos look rather honest in comparison.


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## Reece-DM (Jul 17, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> That's pretty damn sad. It's a pure win for ColoCrossing if it's one of their 'clients', though. Even if it deadpools, they can either just repo the gear to give to someone else, or let their house VPS brand absorb the failed company's client list. Which honestly is what that whole situation has looked like to me from day one - fabricate competition with ridiculous sales in order to quickly build clients, just to let the company die and grow the in-house brand by refugees.
> 
> 
> Makes Russel and Constantinos look rather honest in comparison.


It wouldn't surprise me if certain people were invovled in the numerous startups which came and went. Would help them make some bank money.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 17, 2013)

Fair point. It is worth remembering for as much as they like to claim how "big" they are, and rag on "small datacenters they've never heard of", they're not actually a DC themselves - they just rent and resell rack space.

If it is just a quick grab for cash, it makes one wonder if they're really just that dishonest, or are resorting to tactics like these because they're having trouble paying their own bills.


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## wlanboy (Jul 17, 2013)

So what are reasonable prices for:


0.5 GB [OpenVZ/KVM]
1 GB [OpenVZ/KVM]
2 GB [OpenVZ/KVM]
?


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## Reece-DM (Jul 17, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Fair point. It is worth remembering for as much as they like to claim how "big" they are, and rag on "small datacenters they've never heard of", they're not actually a DC themselves - they just rent and resell rack space. If it is just a quick grab for cash, it makes one wonder if they're really just that dishonest, or are resorting to tactics like these because they're having trouble paying their own bills.


Of course, no matter how much its spread over LET how big CC is or them misleading people to think its a DC they really ain't.

LET is its own niche of its own, sure I've still got people paying me $30 per 1GB RAM VPS and its OPENVZ *OMG* - It's extremely undersold though which is beautiful with E3's.

Pumping and Dumping startups has always been a thing with LET and the numerous people using CC's servers makes me wonder further.

And now, we see hardly any deadpoolers? Or is it they don't want to list everyone like before.

Anybody remember Dan Fry? VPS6 for that matter, he owns that shit and runs a number of alias' (Chriss Parr, Jermemiah) and his co-owners (Servergurus) Also has different names in there WHMCS. And guess what they use CC in places aswell.

I found this out while being employed for a short time by them, it was a mess to be honest. Glad i wasn't there long.


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## Reece-DM (Jul 17, 2013)

wlanboy said:


> So what are reasonable prices for:
> 
> 
> 0.5 GB [OpenVZ/KVM]
> ...


The resources/prices would be the same for OVZ/KVM 


0.5 GB [OpenVZ/KVM] $5.00
1 GB [OpenVZ/KVM] $10
2 GB [OpenVZ/KVM] $15
That's how I like to look at things. But that to me is on the lowend scale & without me including the other resources/prices for it.


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## jarland (Jul 17, 2013)

How about this...


0.1% of 1 CPU core


32GB RAM


10GB Storage


1TB BW


$3/m


No torrents or ram disk allowed.


Open a ticket to get rejected for this fabulous offer that I'm not making.


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## Reece-DM (Jul 17, 2013)

jarland said:


> How about this...
> 
> 
> 0.1% of 1 CPU core
> ...


Thats bloody superb!!  can I has 2?


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## mpkossen (Jul 17, 2013)

Nobody mentioned it's InceptionHosting's Anthony Smith pitching this as an idea for an oversold (2x) brand.

So he probably won't be deadpooling doing this on the side.

Whoops, forgot the link: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/11974/oversold-brand-in-chicago-8gb-kvm#latest


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## 5n1p (Jul 17, 2013)

I also don't think  Anthony Smith will go down with this, he know's what his doing


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## mpkossen (Jul 17, 2013)

5n1p said:


> I also don't think  Anthony Smith will go down with this, he know's what his doing


Wouldn't surprise me if he will. And given the responses on LET, I'm sure it will sell well. Especially since it's KVM, there's no "oversold" brand with KVM yet.


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## WelltodoInformalCattle (Jul 17, 2013)

If it all works out, well, more power to him but my eyes almost bulged out when I saw 8 GB. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the end.


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## SkylarM (Jul 17, 2013)

5n1p said:


> I also don't think  Anthony Smith will go down with this, he know's what his doing


While you CAN oversell memory, it still has a much larger overhead than OVZ, he won't be cramming the 50 per node he thinks he'll be doing. No chance. It just isn't worth the hassle with KVM.


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## mikho (Jul 17, 2013)

mpkossen said:


> Nobody mentioned it's InceptionHosting's Anthony Smith pitching this as an idea for an oversold (2x) brand.
> 
> So he probably won't be deadpooling doing this on the side.
> 
> Whoops, forgot the link: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/11974/oversold-brand-in-chicago-8gb-kvm#latest


I'm sure Anthony thought this over more then once and unless he has some evil plan he wont sell it unless it pays for the server.

Anthony started Lowendspirit and from the beginning said he would take the loss that it would make,

I'm sure he has something similar in mind for this project. Unless he got the server dirt cheap and can do it and still make money.

Edit:

here's a long shot, Anthony asked for Windows VPS here, perhaps he decided he could get a server and sell those Windows VPS for so much money he could sell a few really cheap ones to this community.

OR, he is pulling everyones leg....


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## nunim (Jul 17, 2013)

Well, the server specs he gave certainly aren't dirt cheap..."2 x E5-2620 6 x 3TB SATA + 2 x 128GB SSD, 256GB Ram, dual Gbit ports teamed"

Doesn't sound economical to me, he said once oversold so 512/8 = 64 clients per node, which doesn't sound like enough at 5-7 a month before PayPal fees. (64x$6=$384/Mo)  Colo/power isn't free nor is transit, after the server costs I don't see a whole lot of room for profit.  Out of curiosity does anyone run similar nodes and could speak about their power consumption?

My question is what are you doing with 8 GB of ram?  Giant ramdrive? 

Everyone seems to want more ram without having any practical usage for it and I can't think of many uses for massive amounts of ram without high CPU or IO load.  If I really needed 8 GB of ram I would surely get a dedicated server and not some oversold crap.  

I for one would like to see more quality small plans such 128 MB or 256 MB in good locations with high quality bandwidth mixes. It's certainly something that I feel is lacking these days on LET/here.


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## SkylarM (Jul 17, 2013)

He plans to double the RAM sold, so he plans to only turn $320 per month per node with that hardware cost? Meh not my cup of tea.

2 IPs per even at $0.50 per IP is $64/m in IP addresses. + the backup space + the 3rd month free. If his goal is to force kiddy hosts into trying to offer this and go out of business then he'll be successful, but profit margins just aren't there for it to be worthwhile.


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## VPSCorey (Jul 17, 2013)

I think those are joke threads, there's about 20 of them.


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## HostUS-Alexander (Jul 17, 2013)

8GB KVM <$7... thats just crazy!


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## H4G (Jul 17, 2013)

Quad (Dual E5-2609)

32GB of RAM

4TB Organic Storage

KVM

100Petabyte BW

Location: Mars

Price: $0.99 /mo

*Hurry!!! Order now: *http://h4g.co/ordernow


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## john (Jul 17, 2013)

Didn't realize today was April 1st.


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## Dylan (Jul 17, 2013)

'mikho said:


> unless he has some evil plan


I'm not saying this is what he's doing, but...



> AnthonySmith Member
> 
> 
> March 31edited March 31 FlagThanks
> ...


http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/242124/#Comment_242124


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## willie (Jul 17, 2013)

nunim said:


> My question is what are you doing with 8 GB of ram? Giant ramdrive?


I ran a search engine for a while, which ate basically all the ram of the 8gb dedicated server that it ran on at the time. It didn't use a ramdrive per se, but its index set had to be paged in all the time for certain aggregated queries to be reasonably responsive.


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## Jeffrey (Jul 17, 2013)

They know that these clients will never use such amount of Ram so they will oversell the hell out of the node.  This is still possible with KVM, but it's not common with KVM.


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## concerto49 (Jul 17, 2013)

SkylarM said:


> He plans to double the RAM sold, so he plans to only turn $320 per month per node with that hardware cost? Meh not my cup of tea.
> 
> 2 IPs per even at $0.50 per IP is $64/m in IP addresses. + the backup space + the 3rd month free. If his goal is to force kiddy hosts into trying to offer this and go out of business then he'll be successful, but profit margins just aren't there for it to be worthwhile.


You're assuming that IPs are $0.50/IP. I'm sure he gets it for a lot less.


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## SkylarM (Jul 17, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> You're assuming that IPs are $0.50/IP. I'm sure he gets it for a lot less.


Yeah it's just an assumption to get a feel for pricing. Not sure that you'd get IPs for anything under $0.15 per IP unless you are direct to ARIN.


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## D. Strout (Jul 17, 2013)

Here's how you do it: disallow custom ISOs, and only provide ISOs with a modified version of the stated OS. What modification? The command "free" always returns 8GB total even if it's running 256MB. Serious users who actually bother picking one up won't trust it enough to use it, non-serious users who get it just for the "elbow room" won't need/use anywhere near the 8GB, and legit uses that would use all the 8GB are disallowed, VPS immediately shut down if such usage is detected. Actual node has maybe 64GB of RAM, located in, say... Buffalo!

Seriously, though, since this is AnthonySmith, I imagine that either he's not actually planning to go through with this _or_ he'll pull it off, possibly at a loss until hardware gets cheap enough to pull a meager profit. Maybe cut corners by only providing one IP free until you give a _really_ good justification for the second. Either way, I'm just gonna wait and see.


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## concerto49 (Jul 17, 2013)

D. Strout said:


> Here's how you do it: disallow custom ISOs, and only provide ISOs with a modified version of the stated OS. What modification? The command "free" always returns 8GB total even if it's running 256MB. Serious users who actually bother picking one up won't trust it enough to use it, non-serious users who get it just for the "elbow room" won't need/use anywhere near the 8GB, and legit uses that would use all the 8GB are disallowed, VPS immediately shut down if such usage is detected. Actual node has maybe 64GB of RAM, located in, say... Buffalo!
> 
> Seriously, though, since this is AnthonySmith, I imagine that either a) he's not actually planning to go through with this or B) he'll pull it off, possibly at a loss until hardware gets cheap enough to pull a meager profit. Maybe cut corners by only providing one IP free until you give a _really_ good justification for the second. Either way, I'm just gonna wait and see.


Problem is the continuous DDoS attacks. Just look @ Waveride.


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## Dylan (Jul 17, 2013)

concerto49 said:


> Problem is the continuous DDoS attacks. Just look @ Waveride.


I dunno what Prometeus might be doing that Edis isn't, but FWIW I haven't seen those sorts of issues at all with OVerZold.


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## mikho (Jul 17, 2013)

I would start my free shared hosting project on one of these KVMs


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## JackDoan (Jul 21, 2013)

Jeez, where do you draw the line between 'good deal' and 'scam'?


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## wlanboy (Jul 21, 2013)

JackDoan said:


> Jeez, where do you draw the line between 'good deal' and 'scam'?


Asked that too, but did only get responses like: "It depends...".


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 21, 2013)

Do you trust the provider? Then it's a good deal.

Are you interested in the plan solely for the price point? Scam.


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## wlanboy (Jul 21, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Do you trust the provider? Then it's a good deal.


Well that's the main reason boards like this one do exist:

Share experience about providers.


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## JackDoan (Jul 21, 2013)

HostUS-Alexander said:


> 8GB KVM <$7... thats just crazy!


It seriously is insane. There's no way for them to make a profit without terrible overselling, or just lies.


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## Francisco (Jul 22, 2013)

Dylan said:


> I dunno what Prometeus might be doing that Edis isn't, but FWIW I haven't seen those sorts of issues at all with OVerZold.


Mao has to integrate a bunch of policies that he put our feet to the coals for once he started working at Prometeus. Notice he doesn't allow TOR and a lot of things will get you thrown out? He chewed at us for that constantly. That's not to say it doesn't protect them. He has said that they've had floods but thankfully they haven't caused any real issues. It could be that Sal has some basic rate limits/ACL's on UDP traffic upstream or it could just be that since they don't keep stock very often that they keep the trouble makers away.

EDIS has those issues because they've allowed....interesting content before.

The idea of an autonull or anything like that is a rare thing in the hosting industry it seems. Ubiquity just recently released "ddos filtering" that's quite literally just an autonull.

Francisco


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## mikho (Jul 22, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Do you trust the provider? Then it's a good deal.
> 
> 
> Are you interested in the plan solely for the price point? Scam.


If I trust the provider and the interest is based on the good price.... good VS. bad ... who will win...


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## Aldryic C'boas (Jul 22, 2013)

mikho said:


> If I trust the provider and the interest is based on the good price.... good VS. bad ... who will win...


If you trust the provider to maintain a quality service, then the latter half is irrelevant


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## mikho (Jul 22, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> If you trust the provider to maintain a quality service, then the latter half is irrelevant


I would like to add company age into the equation aswell. An provider with many years in the business will probably have more "chance" of success then a newly created company.


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## mikho (Jul 22, 2013)

Brothman said:


> Have you solved your issues, the OP?


What issues ?


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## NodeworksIX (Jul 22, 2013)

At this point, it's just talk/speculation.  I doubt this will solidify into a real service, but until then, I will wait until I see order links...


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## AnthonySmith (Jul 24, 2013)

mpkossen said:


> Nobody mentioned it's InceptionHosting's Anthony Smith pitching this as an idea for an oversold (2x) brand.
> 
> So he probably won't be deadpooling doing this on the side.
> 
> Whoops, forgot the link: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/11974/oversold-brand-in-chicago-8gb-kvm#latest


I would like to make it VERY clear this was never ever ever as in never going to be at ColoCrossing, and the hardware will be on buydown, i.e. I am paying for the drives, raid card and Ram in advance up front


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## anyNode (Jul 24, 2013)

KVM can be oversold within SolusVM so I mean...


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## AnthonySmith (Jul 24, 2013)

anyNode said:


> KVM can be oversold within SolusVM so I mean...


 

Very true, you can oversell KVM by 100% without customers feeling much in terms of performance hit if you do it properly, I am surprised this proposed offer has caused so much of a ripple effect to be honest, it is not hard to do really and also when you consider you can oversell OpenVZ by 6 - 10 times without customers noticing with no effort what so ever and I assure you that is what at least 50% of hosts are doing on OpenVZ.


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## Francisco (Jul 24, 2013)

You'll run out of cores before you run out of RAM.

All it takes is a poorly configured firewall/dhcp server to spam up a syslogd and rip a full core.

Infact we're having to look at not using E3's for our KVM nodes anymore and go with a dual hex core setup.

Francisco


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## jcaleb (Jul 24, 2013)

Seems opteron good choice


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## AnthonySmith (Jul 25, 2013)

Francisco said:


> You'll run out of cores before you run out of RAM.
> 
> All it takes is a poorly configured firewall/dhcp server to spam up a syslogd and rip a full core.
> 
> ...


Indeed and this would be a dual hex core + HT giving 24 logical cores over 64 VM's which will be no issue at all.


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## Magiobiwan (Jul 25, 2013)

Another advantage of a dual hex-core system compared to the E3's is RAM. No more 32GB limitation. BlueVM uses Dual E5-2620's w/ 128GB RAM for KVM nodes. Quite nice.


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## AnthonySmith (Jul 25, 2013)

Magiobiwan said:


> Another advantage of a dual hex-core system compared to the E3's is RAM. No more 32GB limitation. BlueVM uses Dual E5-2620's w/ 128GB RAM for KVM nodes. Quite nice.


Indeed, I use the same for Xen nodes now, the cost is around 30% ish higher but obviously 4 x more ram.


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## happel (Jul 25, 2013)

I understand providers like the E5 processors for the high ram capability, but as a customer I dislike them and tend to avoid them. 2.0ghz (seems to be the default E5 processor) vs 3.4ghz (default E3) with the same efficiency per clock is a very noticeable performance drop in many web applications.


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## Sonwebhost (Jul 25, 2013)

With the economy the way it is you will see it is a buyers market, providers have to make sales to stay in business and grow, selling at cost or below cost to gain market share is a long time practice in every industry, these are temporary situations and as growth rebounds and the company sales grow it then raises prices and or diversify. So enjoy the benefits of a soft market until the rebound.


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## prometeus (Jul 25, 2013)

Francisco said:


> It could be that Sal has some basic rate limits/ACL's on UDP traffic upstream or it could just be that since they don't keep stock very often that they keep the trouble makers away.


It's a matter of luck I suppose ;-)

TBH the only product with stock in the last months has been OVerZold as for it I'm using the same servers I'm buying (and stocking) for the cloud, dual E5 with 128GB of ram.


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## ErrantWeb-Travis (Jul 30, 2013)

Way too much specs for wayy to little price. No one can do $5/m for 8GB especially on KVM.


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## jcaleb (Jul 30, 2013)

ErrantWeb said:


> Way too much specs for wayy to little price. No one can do $5/m for 8GB especially on KVM.


open challege


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## Slownode (Jul 30, 2013)

jcaleb said:


> open challege


I could do $4 per GB KVM(in volume), but $5 for 8GB, bahh, server RAM costs $9 OEM per GB, then there's the rest of the system, and the cost of the connection, and rackspace.


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2013)

Folks might want to look around at the insane RAM low end price wars.  It's getting stupid. 4GB, 6GB... err.

Of course it's all OpenVZ.

Frankly, price is only one part of the equation.

If you can oversell, because 75% of better of customers use a small fraction of resources, then great, lower the price.  Hazard though is customers that do use resource will often buy at the deep-discounted price and you in effect will decrease your own income as they switch plans/brands.

I am a buyer, not a provider.  I tried those large RAM plans, they stunk --- on the discount offers.  Most provides offering them have no real control/knowledge of their nodes.  Reboots and outages, very common.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 5, 2013)

Francisco said:


> You'll run out of cores before you run out of RAM.
> 
> All it takes is a poorly configured firewall/dhcp server to spam up a syslogd and rip a full core.
> 
> ...


Don't you mean... sex cores?


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## MartinD (Sep 5, 2013)

There are 8GB offers here for stupid money.

The whole thing is just a bit stupid really.


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2013)

HalfEatenPie said:


> Don't you mean... sex cores?


Sex cores?  Do those reproduce and make me more cores or what?


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## mikho (Sep 5, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Sex cores? Do those reproduce and make me more cores or what?


Read datashack ads on WHT and you'll understand.


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2013)

Oh I know all about the WSI/Datashack ads    I laugh every time I read them.  Funny they still push that and it still gets chuckles.


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## HalfEatenPie (Sep 5, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Sex cores?  Do those reproduce and make me more cores or what?


They start out as Atoms but one day they want to grow as big and strong as those E3s they always hear about!


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## drmike (Sep 5, 2013)

But those Atoms are neutered, they have no balls.

These must be hermaphroditic CPUs.   I remember why AMD use to be the leader.


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## Reece-DM (Sep 6, 2013)

Oh those sex cores from Datashack, believe it started with the Phenom x6 many moons ago.

After my original post here, i haven't seen to many actually try to compete with those monstrous high RAM plans.

PremiumVM/EaseVPS i believe are trying to push 3GB in the UK.

I've had a fair few requests for the higher allocations of 3 - 6GB VPS's but they haven't been priced stupidly.

 $5 - 7 per GB.


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## drmike (Sep 6, 2013)

Iniz is pushing them:

OpenVZ.IO – IO4G
3 vCPU Cores
4096MB RAM
75GB Disk
1TB Outgoing BW
UNMETERED Incoming BW
Coupon: “OPENVZIO“
$6.97/Mo - ORDER NOW
New York / Los Angeles / Amsterdam


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## Reece-DM (Sep 6, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Iniz is pushing them:
> 
> OpenVZ.IO – IO4G
> 
> ...


They have been for quite awhile, granted I know they're not using crappy h/w which has a limit of 32GB but i expect there is a level of overselling even if the nodes a monster.


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## drmike (Sep 6, 2013)

There's no overselling if the node is empty    Not claiming that though, but it is nice when it happens, sad when it gets loaded.


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## Patrick (Sep 6, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> Iniz is pushing them:
> 
> OpenVZ.IO – IO4G
> 
> ...


We've had that promo since we started for LEB/LET and VPSB.

We just got another /21 from ARIN today and a /22 within RIPE region last week so don't expect us to go anywhere but grow at a insane rate


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 7, 2013)

Well I just *sex* cored the offers section as well as *oct* cored it, with a wait... 16GB VPS offer.


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## drmike (Sep 7, 2013)

That 16GB offer is nutso @AnthonySmith.   How big are those nodes to offer like that?


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 7, 2013)

Dual Hex Core, 128GB Ram, 8 x disks, dual gbit teamed nics.


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## Reece-DM (Sep 7, 2013)

AnthonySmith said:


> Well I just *sex* cored the offers section as well as *oct* cored it, with a wait... 16GB VPS offer.


I'm not going to lie' but I'm extremely tempted right now.

But then again, you may have those monstrous packages, but the pricing isn't ridiculously low and its not OpenVZ 

So that's where the real value comes into play with your offers.


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## AnthonySmith (Sep 7, 2013)

It is ridiculously low priced  Reece  find me any OpenVZ package with the same specs and lower price  I will match it.


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## Reece-DM (Sep 7, 2013)

6 Cores (Equal Share)

*2 GB Ram*

2 GB Swap

50 GB Raid 10 storage

1 TB Bandwidth @ gbit

1 x IPv4

5 x IPv6

PRICE:€5.35

I meant in regards to it being XEN and not OpenVZ being oversold w/ a low price ;P

Price comparison, that 2GB plan you got there is lovely for XEN let alone the higher packages.. dribble :wub:


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## HostUS-Alexander (Sep 8, 2013)

Did the 8GB/16GB Offer happen?


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