# ishaq and budgetnode



## bsdguy (May 9, 2017)

Some of you may know me from LET where I have been more or less active since some years.

Today there was/is a thread about budgetnode not delivering what they offer and playing games. Details can be found at LET.
I had some strange experience with budgetnode myself but I'm not the type of person who immediately runs and opens a complaint thread. But as others seemed to experience strange behaviour from budgetnode, too I thought I'd add my line, too.

Then hell broke lose.

ishaq, the owner or manager of budgetnode immediately contacted me by PM and seemed concerned. I was bewildered because I had tried to contact budgetnode in multiple ways and when I got a reaction by email they basically told me to f*ck off. Maybe I interpret too much into it but I even felt that they were cynically ridiculing me by asking me to open a ticket - which, of course I couldn't do, as I had no access to my account which was my problem in the first place.

After that experience I had lost my confidence in budgetnode and didn't care anymore. But ishaq suddenly and surprisingly seemed concerned. He wrote nice phrases like him wanting me to have my service. Well, more precisely, he got concerned when I told him that I have proof of payment ...

But as I said, after my excessively bad experience with budgetnode I didn't care. You see, sometimes you get a VPS for your money and sometimes you get a lesson for your money; that's how I see it and with budgetnode it was a lesson - STAY AWAY!.

But ishaq pushed me to please provide some info to help him to find the account. Funny, just recently I was hoping for just that but all I got from budgetnode was utter ignorance and some sarcasm. But, of course, then I was just one of probably many individual victims (some of which wrote about it in the LET thread I mentioned; I myself added a post, too, btw. a quite calm and restrained one).

I told him that I didn't care but he pushed and pushed and finally I gave in and helped him to find the account with the VPS I had payed in advance for a full year. Hardly had he identified it, things became clear. All he was after was to push me to now change or delete the negative post about budgetnode ...

I told him that I would not change it and that I was still pissed, having lost some weeks I had payed for after all.

That's when he switched from provider to admin, utterly abusing his admin position at LET. He deleted my post.

Meanwhile he

- killed my account (saying that he'll refund me)
- publicly broke client privacy
- serial abused his admin position
- had pals write against me (smart move, particularly considering that one of them even had a budgetnode reseller signature ...)
- debated with me, then deleted my posts and posts of his not exactly smart pals, debated or had debate again, deleted again
- changed the thread title to paint me as bad and himself as smart winner, although it was not even me who had opened that thread in the first place (see above. The fact that someone *else* had opened a critical thread was the reason for me to talk at all about my bad experience).

Short: *Stay away from budgetnode!* That guy won't stop at anything and having a VPS there seems to be more of a lottery anyway.

Note: I'm not a troublemaker and I had providers multiple times mention publicly how easy going and clean a client I am.


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## jarland (May 9, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> That's when he switched from provider to admin, utterly abusing his admin position at LET. He deleted my post.



My sincere apologies for this. I have re-posted the words that were deleted, but was not able to restore fully. I will make sure that does not happen again.


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## WasNotWSS (May 9, 2017)

My own experience with BudgetNode:

When I received my VPS with them (an $8/mo service), the network was unstable and throughput was awful. (I don't have the data I originally posted to them as it was sent through WHMCS, and for some reason was not set to public-viewable in the existing ticket.) I opted to cancel.

The disk was clearly overloaded- it took seconds for a basic 'ls ~' to return. Rather than cancel me, they offered to migrate me to their new VPS server in LA. Rather than being migrated, I was reprovisioned-setup with CentOS 6. I reinstalled Debian (thankfully I didn't have anything important I expected to make the cutover), and gave it a go.

Now, the bandwidth was near ADSL speeds, so I responded in kind. In about a minute, I was advised to set my MTU to 1400, and see how it worked. This was my single contact with Ishaq via BudgetNode- the rest of my support had been through Jordan.

After I set my MTU to this value, it worked better, but still wasn't trustworthy enough for me to use with the odd network congestion and seemingly-random loss of packets (ICMP failures alone were somewhere between 2-4% as memory serves), so I ended up canceling my service as I needed a stable UDP for this project). From start to finish, this was January 1st - January 20th, 2017.


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## bsdguy (May 9, 2017)

jarland said:


> My sincere apologies for this. I have re-posted the words that were deleted, but was not able to restore fully. I will make sure that does not happen again.



This means a lot to me, so thank you. Not so much the restored post but the fact that a single admin can not go berserk at LET without someone pushing the brakes.

The two of us had our troubles, too, but you did not abuse your admin power and you tried to stay fair (which can be hard when being angry).

ishaq had the means to completely turn things around and against me - and he did so. Not once, not just in posts. No, he even changed the title of the thread.

Well noted: I bought - and payed 1 year in advance - some 3 weeks or so ago. And I never made any noise or trouble. I simply took that to be one of the bases where one pays for a lesson. Nor did I ask for a refund and write angry emails or the like. I only said something when today I saw that there seemed to be others, too, wondering about the validity of budgetnodes offers and other issues.

Yet ishaq did everything - which is a lot for an admin - to paint me as the evil guy who just looks for trouble. Gladly I have lots of well deserved thank yous because I write fair reviews and help users when I can, so it's not that easy to paint me as the evil guy, particularly because multiple providers have made positive public statements about me.

But ishaq certainly tried. He completely bent the thread and turned it into a private war in which he had all the weapons and I had none.

Frankly, before today I wouldn't exactly recommend budgetnode but I wouldn't make noise either. I pretty much took budgetnode to be one of the (not so few) average providers who care about finding and making people sign up and then not care much.
Now, however, particularly after a lengthy PM exchange, I have learned that ishaq is an extremely egomaniac guy who utterly ignores the other side and *only* sees and takes care of *his* side, no matter what and no matter the means.

So, it's not my first negative experience but what happened today that convinced me to warn potential customer to stay away from budgetnode. And, frankly, I'm also convinced that keeping ishaq as admin will bring trouble to LET and harm it.


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## bsdguy (May 9, 2017)

@WasNotWSS 

First: Nice to see you again, not-a-manatee *g

As for the quality of budgetnode I can't say anything as I never came to the point of using it but I'm not at all surprised by what you report. Perfectly matches my impression of ishaq: "Get them client animals to sign up and pay and then, oh well ...".

As you mention Jordan: That was one of the go-fors ishaq sent to piss at me. Unfortunately for them Jordan didn't act exactly smart and got first bitchslapped and then his post was deleted, too, by ishaq.

Dirty and egomaniac are the two words that come to mind when trying to summarize my impression.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

I have no view on the events that led up to it, perhaps you were at fault. What Ishaq done though was totally unacceptable, It goes some way to confirm my publicly available views on his MO in getting on staff positions at sites like LET and others. As for Jordan he is just an annoying lap dog, barks away, nobody listens.

The saving grace in all this as I said on LET is that @jarland can be relied on not to shy away when something goes wrong.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

Why would LET allow something like this from an admin? That simply puzzles me.

Some people do not understand business. Sometimes you get good feedback, sometimes bad. As a business owner or staff member you have to turn whatever type of feedback into something positive, be it through enjoying the praises on the fruits of your labor or as a learning experience. Clearly this ishaq fella doesn't understand that.

@bsdguy for the sake of transparency, can you use the report link to submit proof of service from BudgetNode?


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## raindog308 (May 10, 2017)

jarland's already commented from the LET team so I'll leave that there.

As for BN...

I have a small KVM I bought from BN semi-impulsively. I wanted a separate node for handling my email from home (Comcast blocks outgoing port 25, so I have to relay things like alerts from my home systems, etc.).

I'm not driving it hard - it's just a tiny KVM relaying mail and for that it's been fine. However, I'll probably move when it's up for renewal because the price is increasing and they're discontinuing 256MB plans (see email below). For what I'm doing with this node, a $15/yr BuyVM would be fine. I can't really fault the price increase and they're giving me 5 months' notice but it's just an extra $9/year for no reason for me.

Personally, being a mod has convinced me that the low end market is not one I'd ever want to enter 


Thank you for choosing and being a loyal customer of BudgetNode since 12th October 2016. We sincerely appreciate your business.

We're writing to inform you that the plan you are on (_256MB KVM Special_) is being discontinued effective immediately. It is no longer available for sale and cannot be renewed.

Your service(s) have been automatically upgraded to the next plan that was included in the promotion you purchased from. The new plan specifications are listed below:

RAM: 256MB > *512MB*
Storage: 10GB > *20GB*
Port Speed: 100Mbps > *1Gbps*

This upgrade is free for the remainder of your billing term. Your service was previously billed at $15.00/year and will renew at *$24.00*/year. For your information, this is a *$9* or *37.5%* price increase.

Please restart your service from the control panel to apply this upgrade. You will need to extend partitions manually to take advantage of the disk upgrade. Our support team is on hand to assist if you have any issues with this.

We understand that price changes are not well received, we have made this decision to maintain a consistent and reliable service. The plan was not profitable for us to continue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and hope that you will continue your services with us.

If you have any questions please contact the billing department by opening a ticket from your customer account or by emailing [email protected]

Thank you,

James W.
Billing & Accounts
Access Internet Ltd


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> @bsdguy for the sake of transparency, can you use the report link to submit proof of service from BudgetNode?



Sure - if you explain me what that means. He has killed my account, so I can't produce anything there. But I have my payment record, emails, etc ...


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

There is more to that and I'm glad to see that finally at LET some smarter users began to use their brain rather than just taking the side of the admin (I'm one myself and I know how many, many "friends" admins have ...).

I'm there since about 3 years. Opened 10 threads, most of which are either requests or reviews (service to community). With my reviews I always took great care to be fair and unbiased. Somewhat brutal example: cociu, whom I like a lot (no secret; it's well known and not hidden) was, to put it diplomatically, not exactly at the top in my review of 10 or so cheap, cheap servers. (Btw: cociu never complained to me, so I seem to be right about calling him a fine guy). And I put quite some work into that review, making coloured spreadsheets, etc.

In those years I've written about 1250 comments and got about 800 Thanks. Not at all bad; not too many with that ratio of comments/thanks. Over the years I bought from about 10 providers and until yesterday not even 1 had a single bad word about me. Never an abuse problem, not a single one in years.

Short, anyone desiring to paint me as a trouble maker is bound to fail. And please note that not even now I talk bad about budgetnode. I'm talking bad about ishaq, not about his company. I made a stupid typo, I confessed that right away (publicly!), once I knew about it. I contacted them through their contact form and got a canned non-response bla bla. I contacted them by email - to politely ask, not to accuse or to make trouble - and got a canned non-response again; to make it worse that time they pretty much told me "f*ck you!" by asking me to open a ticket - whoch, of course, I couldn't possibly do as I couldn't log in.

That was weeks ago. I made no trouble, wrote no further email, made no fuzz, opened no "budgetnode are scammers!" thread. All I did for weeks was to *quietly* and for myself book this under "stay away from budgetnode" and "well, this time you payed not for a vps but for a lesson".

Then yesterday someone opened a thread about budgetnode and with budgetnode in the title. The OP was obviously not happy about some low end product end of life or something like that. Others chimed in, partly critical, too. All I did was to join and to make a somewhat cynical remark along the line "at least you got something. I didn't get anything". That's it.

And suddenly I had a very active ishaq in my PM blabbering about him wanting me to have my service. What I know only now is that his concern was *only* about how he looks publicly. He didn't care a rats ass about me. That became very clear when he finally had found my account and that I couldn't log in because I had accidently dropped a letter from my email address - Bingo! Now he had everything he needed to say he's completely innocent and I'm just a troublemaker. From that moment on the conversation changed very much. He even asked for an apology.

His other problem was that he expected me to be grateful and on my knees from the beginning and eager to get my vps. But due to his companies utter ignorance and extremely poor support 3 weeks had passed and I actually had got another vps with another provider.
So, rather than being grateful for him being willing to finally do what I had tried to make him do for weeks, I was quite desinterested and told him so. Important note: I did not even ask for a refund (so much for bsdguy the evil troublemaker). I simply didn't care for that budgetnode thingy anymore.
In fact, as soon as he mangnanimously told me that my vps was now available I simply logged in, corrected my email address and shut the vps down - and I told him so.

To make it short - that a**hole had plenty time and plenty chances. He could have simply said "I'll refund you and we're done" and there wouldn't have been a war. But he didn't, he did that only when *he* wanted and to punish me. Which translates to him obviously being an idiot, too.

During that whole PM series (which I btw saved as things sometimes happen to vanish at LET ...) one thing was omnipresent and brutally clear: ishaq is an egomaniac and I mean that in the clinical sense. Even in a situation where he had understood - and proof - that BN has performed lousily and that I was in fact a paying in advance customer it was all only and exclusively about "I, ishaq want this, I, ishaq want that". It was utterly, even brutally clear that he didn't care *at all* about his customer. It was all only about him, him, him.

The reason why I was very reluctant from the beginning was that I had to learn that BN doesn't care about their customers, once they had the money. Why should anyone in his right mind want to do business with an utterly ignorant provider who even ridicules you? THAT is why I wasn't interested. And again: I did not even ask for a refund (nor for my vps). It was ishaq who pushed it.

Now, after what I experienced yesterday I take ishaq to simply be a psychopath who, to make it worse, can't control himself in the least and is easily ready to abuse whatever means at his disposal (like being admin at LET) to get his way. Simple as that - and I don't say that in hatred but I merely describe what I see.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> Why would LET allow something like this from an admin? That simply puzzles me.



Like any forum you take on people you believe will do a good job out in front and in the back. Jarland needs to make those choices, not saying the guy is instantly bad due to this one incident and should be stripped of Admin although it does raise more questions than it answers.

I have all but abandoned the LET market, there is much going on in the background that most don't know about in provider terms, what's below scum of the earth? Whatever it is is where many of the LET providers lay.

All I have now is a couple of BuyVM Slices, or one I can't remember. 

@bsdguy, I would check FraudRecord, can guarantee they reported you on there.


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

@bsdguy for what it's worth, the term you are looking for is _megalomaniac._


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> During that whole PM series (which I btw saved as things sometimes happen to vanish at LET ...)



Can you post this. I always find the tone on both sides is why it ends up where it does.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Sure - if you explain me what that means. He has killed my account, so I can't produce anything there. But I have my payment record, emails, etc ...



That would be great and work just fine. Gotta do our due diligence is all


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Lee said:


> @bsdguy, I would check FraudRecord, can guarantee they reported you on there.



Thanks for the hint but a) I don't think he is *that* insane and stupid (one of my clients is a large international lawyer group and will be more than happy to sue the living shit out of him) and b) *shrug* There are enough providers who can give me anything I need and will gladly do so.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> That would be great and work just fine. Gotta do our due diligence is all



Call me stupid but clicking on the "report" I find only a small field to complain about some post ...

So, *how* can I give you the information/data in a confidential and secure way? I'm ready but I don't yet see/understand how.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Call me stupid but clicking on the "report" I find only a small field to complain about some post ...
> 
> So, *how* can I give you the information/data in a confidential and secure way? I'm ready but I don't yet see/understand how.



Yeah that's the right place. We use the report system (complaining on your own post) to track proof that you had an account with a host. Just black out any private information and toss a link in the report. Only mods/admins can see it.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Done. Sent the report.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Lee said:


> Can you post this. I always find the tone on both sides is why it ends up where it does.



Being a Mod you can see it in the report. For all others: I was pissed and desinterested and pushed but reasonably polite. But there is again expressly written that I wasn't looking for a refund nor the vps. ishaq played it constructively and friendly in the beginning (experience with unhappy customers?) and showed his real face as soon as he saw that he wouldn't get what he wanted (that I take back what I had posted). So he abused his admin role and took it by force.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

What the OP continuously fails to mention in this whole story is that the reason he never received his service in the first place was simply due to the fact he entered the wrong email address. To suggest we did not deliver what we promised is misleading.

Therefore when he opened the ticket he mentioned, the response he received was that the ticket needs to be opened under his billing account. Anyone who understands how WHMCS will work, will know that since the email was wrong the ticket will show as being a guest ticket.

The client seems to think that it’s our responsibility to follow this up somehow. But follow it up how? Support are not actively on the lookout for emails which may be invalid. If the client was confused by this response, you would expect them to try and contact us again or through alternative methods, but they did not, they simply assumed we’re ‘scammers’ and then disparaged the business in public.

My whole stance on this is that Ishaq did make a mistake removing the post, he should have first asked for a second opinion from another staff member to ensure the business interests are not clouding his judgement, however his viewpoint that it was libellous is entirely correct.

I do not think this reaction is justifiable. In my view, deep down bsdguy feels responsible for this, and is therefore attacking Ishaq wherever possible and providing as little context as possible in order to twist it in his favour. And naturally, as with every company, there are people out there that don’t like us who will join in. And, I believe this is helping you get over the idea you made a mistake.

I suggest that in the interest of providing a fair unbiased account, you post screenshots from the private conversation on LET before this discussion continues, then let people make a judgement.

As for certain untrue claims about us not caring after we receive money, I would like to point out since our incorporation last year, we have repeatedly upgraded our hardware in all locations, where it was not strictly necessary, and will continue investing in our existing products AS well as new products. Your feedback is always welcome and is acted upon.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

Thanks, eventually found it, still getting used to this forum software 

I think you both could have handled it better, but hey customers are customers and well those we pay money to as customers are expected to rise above *most* of what we do or say. Setting aside all personal views about the individuals involved I think the whole thing is and will remain overshadowed by an Admin that abused their status regardless anything else.


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## maounique (May 10, 2017)

jarland said:


> My sincere apologies for this. I have re-posted the words that were deleted, but was not able to restore fully. I will make sure that does not happen again.



Hahahahahahaaaaa... I wonder where he got his lessons on how to use the admin position to silence critics and hide mistakes instead of manning up and apologise... Actually, you did man up as it is the custom over there, you threatened physical violence advocating breaking the law, I guess that is the way in the loonie star state.
I thought he should have got the same treatment he gave you, he agreed with your abuse, you should have turned a blind eye to his, isn't it how it works?
Looks like some admins are more equal than others...


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> What the OP continuously fails to mention in this whole story is that the reason he never received his service in the first place was simply due to the fact he entered the wrong email address. To suggest we did not deliver what we promised is misleading.



Bullshit. I *did* mention that. I also at LET publicly stated that I'm partly responsible.

But as you come with again, let's look at it.

Client orders, client pays year in advance, client accidentally drops a letter in his email address - no evil there, just a human error that can happen (and certainly does often enough).

Client doesn't complain, client doesn't attack. Client politely asks what's gone wrong. Later client asks again - and again politely - what's gone wrong.

Result: budgetnode utterly ignorant up to the point of basically telling the client "tough luck. fuck you" ("open a ticket" which he can only do if he can log in). It is EVIDENT that budgetnode did not even properly read my polite inquiries!

So what's your suggestion? What would be the proper way for client to get the issue solved and his *payed in advance* account working?

In other words: Stop already to blow up a mere human error!


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## maounique (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> So what's your suggestion? What would be the proper way for client to get the issue solved and his *payed in advance* account working?



Our standard approach is to ask for the number of last transaction(s) to prove they are the owners of the account.
Strangely enough, people come to us quoting a different email than those they have on file and ask why we terminated them... I don't recall any case when an email was spelled wrong.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Lee said:


> Thanks, eventually found it, still getting used to this forum software
> 
> I think you both could have handled it better, but hey customers are customers and well those we pay money to as customers are expected to rise above *most* of what we do or say. Setting aside all personal views about the individuals involved I think the whole thing is and will remain overshadowed by an Admin that abused their status regardless anything else.



Let me summarize again:

- I bought a VPS
- I payed a year in advance
- I mistyped 1 letter in my email address.
- I politely asked how to solve the problem
- I again politely asked to solve the problem
- I did not make trouble, did not accuse anyone of anything, did not open complaint threads, did not even ask for a refund
---------------------
Then, yesterday I wrote a post in a budgetnode thread that *someone else* opened. I merely added my post.
That woke up ishaq
----------------------
And suddenly all the things that could - and should - have happened weeks ago happened and were possible. Surprise.

The point that changed the whole thing is that ishag got interested after weeks of utter desinterest.

Suddently he asked all the questions that he could - and should - have asked weeks ago. I responded and surprise, my account was found. A miracle!

Simple as that. ishaq didn't give a fuck for weeks although he was politely asked to look into it. By a client who *had payed*

THAT was the problem. Not my typo. My typo was quickly found once ishaq didn't utterly ignore his client.

And next - ishaq serial-abused his admin power to cover up what his *utter deinterest and disregard for paying client* had turned into a problem.

In other words: He again utterly ignored and disregarded the paying client and egomanically looked only at what *he* wanted or wanted not.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Bullshit. I *did* mention that. I also at LET publicly stated that I'm partly responsible.
> 
> But as you come with again, let's look at it.
> 
> ...



When you open a ticket under an unrecognised email address, it shows you as a guest. The standard response is to open the ticket under your account (by logging in and submitting or emailing from the registered address) because we cannot work on requests without verification they are who they say they are.

There is no way of us knowing you have entered an invalid email address from our end. To us you appear like a non-customer. The attempts you made to work with us to solve the issue were lacklustre, you failed to explain that you were unable to login to your account - which would have allowed us to investigate exactly what happened.

The problem here is not that you made a human error - it's how you continuously place the blame in our court, when it is 100% your fault. Most customers would just hold their hands up, apologise for the comment they made and move on.

And no, no where in this thread did you actually give context about what the original issue was. You said this was about "budgetnode not delivering what they offer", which is complete rubbish. We delivered exactly what you ordered. 

If you insist what I'm saying is incorrect - then post the damn screenshots. Why are you being protective over them?


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> When you open a ticket under an unrecognised email address, it shows you as a guest. The standard response is to open the ticket under your account (by logging in and submitting or emailing from the registered address) because we cannot work on requests without verification they are who they say they are.



Are you so stupid or so ignorant?

How could I know that I accidently dropped a letter in my email address? All I saw was that I couldn't log in with my email address.

Not being able to log in also means that I *could not possibly* open a ticket as a client.

As for your verification bla bla: No problem yesterday. ishaq asked for and got the info via LET PM. He had no qualms about verification then - but then *HE* wanted that problem out of the way.

He could have properly *read* my inquiries and asked the same questions weeks ago. I would have answered and everyone would be happy.

It was not my fault that the budgetnode people don't properly read or care a fuck about support requests.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

Just saying, this is not LET, no issues in this being discussed here, I can totally understand given the events but keep it civil.


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## maounique (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> It was not my fault that the budgetnode people don't properly read or care a fuck about support requests.



Actually, we see the email used in the ticket opened as guest, if it would be slightly different than the one on file, that is easily noticeable.
I think something different happened here. The people over there get a lot of attempts at social engineering, like, hey, I am locked out of my email or was hacked, whatever, and I need it changed, or variations on this theme so might be more jaded than most people. This can happen pretty often, i reckon, when your customers are not vetted well enough and even then, we had such cases.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Are you so stupid or so ignorant?
> 
> How could I know that I accidently dropped a letter in my email address? All I saw was that I couldn't log in with my email address.
> 
> ...



Likewise, how could we know you accidentally dropped a letter in your email?

The logical thing to do if you cannot login - is to open a guest ticket and explain that you cannot, or contact us alternatively. You did not. All you did was open a ticket - we told you that you need to login - and left it at that, before coming back weeks later to disparage us.

We can do verification by alternative methods, so I have no idea what you mean. Yesterday you were asked for some payment information, which you provided. So once again I believe you are trying to twist the story. At the time the issue was not verifying you - it was just that we believed you were not a customer, or were ticketing in from a different email. You've shown a complete lack of understanding of the entire situation from our perspective.


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## AuroraZero (May 10, 2017)




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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

AuroraZero said:


> View attachment 5181



And.....LET has landed


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Those games are just ridiculous. ishaq and jordan merely try to by all means deviate the attention away from their gross ignorance and fuck you attitude towards clients.

FACT is that there was a paying client who due to a small mistake had a problem and politely asked to solve it.
FACT is that budgetnode didn't care a fuck for weeks - as long as that client was quiet.
FACT and proven is that the problem could be resolved in short time with little effort. I provided all the needed information.
FACT is that ishaq wanted me to change my post he didn't like.
FACT is that ishaq abused his admin position to take by force what he wanted.
FACT is that ishaq opened a thread just to smear me.

And they still follow their line of turning black into white and vice versa. Them ignoring and even ridiculing a paying client for weeks? No problem, let's not talk about that. ishaq turning berserk, abusing his admin power, ransacking a thread, smearing a user? No problem, let's not talk about that.

No, let's instead blow up an accidental typo a client made and even publicly confessed. Burn him! Burn that witch client! He mistyped a letter!!!


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

We cared as soon as we knew the issue existed, which came to our attention when you suggested the service had not been delivered on LET. Before that you made no attempt to bring it to our attention in an effective manner.

If you hadn't noticed - I already gave my view on the post being deleted. So no, it was not ignored.

You are just proving my point. You want to make this whole thing about continuously attacking Ishaq while trying to hide some of the facts. He's already admitted a mistake was made. What more are you expecting? Don't answer that, it's pretty obvious.

*Post the LET conversation*, otherwise you're just making it look more and more like you have facts you do not wish for people to see.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> Before that you made no attempt to bring it to our attention in an effective manner.



He did email you didn't he? I think you both agreed on that fact. Is that not effective?

I'm with @Lee, both parties could've done better on the communication.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> He did email you didn't he? I think you both agreed on that fact. Is that not effective?
> 
> I'm with @Lee, both parties could've done better on the communication.



He emailed us with the correct email, which shows as a guest because the email on the account was wrong. His claim was that the service had not been delivered. We told him to open it under his account (not knowing he could not login), as a standard procedure.

From there on, no further communication attempts made. We are not telepathic.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

That's all I wanted to confirm.

Your sales dept. won't entertain issues from unregistered email addresses? Our support staff will reject invalid emails all day long for example, but in our reply when rejecting them we specifically say sales/billing can help you get squared away if you're having issues gaining access to your account.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> That's all I wanted to confirm.
> 
> Your sales dept. won't entertain issues from unregistered email addresses? Our support staff will reject invalid emails all day long for example, but in our reply when rejecting them we specifically say sales/billing can help you get squared away if you're having issues gaining access to your account.



The client is told to open the ticket under their account. The natural response would be "I cannot login" - but there was nothing.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

jordon

Frankly, you are not doing your boss a favour.

What you say is a lie.

I *did* ask for help. Twice. And both times you ignored it, didn't even properly read it, and responded with a canned standard response.

You now saying that you didn't have knowledge of the problem is, in fact, just proving my point. For you indeed the problem came only into existence when I happened to say something *publicly*.

And btw: I have both VPSs and good providers who will certainly give me more products if I desire so. I earned that by being a honest an trouble-free client for years. I'm at LET without any business interest whatsoever. I'll have my refund (ishaq at least said so. We'll see) or I'll have it not; either way that won't have any influence on my life whatsoever.

You noticed the problem way too late due to your ignorance. And there might be more you'll notice way too late. Karma is a bitch as they say...


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> That's all I wanted to confirm.
> 
> Your sales dept. won't entertain issues from unregistered email addresses? Our support staff will reject invalid emails all day long for example, but in our reply when rejecting them we specifically say sales/billing can help you get squared away if you're having issues gaining access to your account.



Good to know. I value professional provider who actually care about their clients.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> The client is told to open the ticket under their account. The natural response would be "I cannot login" - but there was nothing.



Yet another lie.


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## maounique (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> *Post the LET conversation*



You can do that as well as him. That is not confidential information, or are you referring at PMs?
As for hiding the issue, which I think is the main problem here, why did not Ishaq ask someone else to do it, I think it was an obvious conflict of interests there... He could have asked Jarland, after all, he owed him a big favour for a similar thing.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

We'll know who's lying when you post those LET conversations.



maounique said:


> You can do that as well as him. That is not confidential information, or are you referring at PMs?
> As for hiding the issue, which I think is the main problem here, why did not Ishaq ask someone else to do it, I think it was an obvious conflict of interests there... He could have asked Jarland, after all, he owed him a big favour for a similar thing.



PM's.

I agree, Ishaq should have asked for a second opinion. A lesson has been learnt.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Hahaha. The LET conversations can't be posted anymore because *ishaq from budgetnode - in a gross abuse of his admin power* - massacred the threat and serial deleted posts.

Maybe it's easier to understand now why jordon asked for that - well knowing it's not possible.

But then, that was ishaqs desire in the first place to vanish everything he didn't like.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

maounique said:


> You can do that as well as him. That is not confidential information, or are you referring at PMs?
> As for hiding the issue, which I think is the main problem here, why did not Ishaq ask someone else to do it, I think it was an obvious conflict of interests there... He could have asked Jarland, after all, he owed him a big favour for a similar thing.



I don't know Vanilla.. but I'm fairly certain an admin cannot delete YOUR PM's. It is an inbox. Once received, they are there.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Publishing PMs? Cute. Thank you for demonstrating your attitude and mindset so clearly. Rules? Only for others! But then, ishaq already demonstrated that plenty yesterday.

Lesson learned? Indeed! -> *STAY AWAY FROM budgetnode NO MATTER WHAT! JUST STAY AWAY!*


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## DomainBop (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> Why would LET allow something like this from an admin? That simply puzzles me.
> 
> Some people do not understand business. Sometimes you get good feedback, sometimes bad. As a business owner or staff member you have to turn whatever type of feedback into something positive, be it through enjoying the praises on the fruits of your labor or as a learning experience. Clearly this ishaq fella doesn't understand that.


Case in point below: 


BudgetNode Rep said:


> *Post the LET conversation*, otherwise you're just making it look more and more like you have facts you do not wish for people to see.



rule #1a: never call out a customer in public, or start threads about them on a forum, no matter how much of an asshole you may think they are... 

rule #1b: the customer doesn't have to defend themselves to a business on a public forum even if they publicly complained about the business.

rule #2: children with part time businesses who aren't lawyers shouldn't publicly accuse their customers of libel. If you feel you've been libeled you keep your mouth shut on public forums and other social media and instead do what adults do and consult an attorney.

I've always said that studying low end VPS "businesses" should be a requirement in business schools because they provide a perfect example of how not to run a business. 

There is a reason why 99% of these "CEOs" and "Vice Presidents of Whatever" can't make a living from their businesses and end up deadpooling and this thread (and the related ones on LET) are a perfect example..



WasNotWSS" said:


> The disk was clearly overloaded- it took seconds for a basic 'ls ~' to return. Rather than cancel me, they offered to migrate me to their new VPS server in LA. Rather than being migrated,



If a provider offers to migrate you to a new node because the node you're on is overloaded...RUN to a new provider as fast as you can because if a provider can't manage the loads on their servers properly it won't be long before that brand new node is also suffering the same problems as the old one.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Publishing PMs? Cute. Thank you for demonstrating your attitude and mindset so clearly. Rules? Only for others! But then, ishaq already demonstrated that plenty yesterday.
> 
> Lesson learned? Indeed! -> *STAY AWAY FROM budgetnode NO MATTER WHAT! JUST STAY AWAY!*



Wow you're just rambling aimlessly now... I've been asking you to publish the PM's for ages... All I've done is requested you post them for the sake of providing a balanced argument (as did Lee), but clearly you were getting carried away.



DomainBop said:


> If a provider offers to migrate you to a new node because the node you're on is overloaded...RUN to a new provider as fast as you can because if a provider can't manage the loads on their servers properly it won't be long before that brand new node is also suffering the same problems as the old one.



At the time everyone was being moved to a new node, because the disk configuration in that location was inadequate. His move was just being fast tracked.

As for the rest of the post - what do you know about our background? Very little.


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## jarland (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Hahaha. The LET conversations can't be posted anymore because *ishaq from budgetnode - in a gross abuse of his admin power* - massacred the threat and serial deleted posts.
> 
> Maybe it's easier to understand now why jordon asked for that - well knowing it's not possible.
> 
> But then, that was ishaqs desire in the first place to vanish everything he didn't like.



One post was deleted, the rest was split into another topic. All but that one post should be there. That one post is there again but I had to type it in my own reply, I had no other way to retrieve it due to vanilla not working. If I am mistaken, please PM me over there and let's talk about what else is missing.

The PM should definitely still be there for you and I can access it. LET PMs are not private from admins, but admins should not be simply reading them for fun. That is an ability that should be used to confirm things like someone selling services via PM or sending spam.



maounique said:


> Hahahahahahaaaaa... I wonder where he got his lessons on how to use the admin position to silence critics and hide mistakes instead of manning up and apologise... Actually, you did man up as it is the custom over there, you threatened physical violence advocating breaking the law, I guess that is the way in the loonie star state.
> I thought he should have got the same treatment he gave you, he agreed with your abuse, you should have turned a blind eye to his, isn't it how it works?
> Looks like some admins are more equal than others...



You were banned after being extended more courtesy than most other members for repeatedly taking threads into territories that they did not need to go (religion, politics, etc) culminating in your use of LET as a platform to declare that child molesters are victims. Every single piece of that conversation exists in a private forum for all moderators and admins to view at their convenience, because when we remove things it should be done transparently. This is not the place for your airing of grievances in my honest opinion, but it's not my forum so I'll leave that to others.


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

DomainBop said:


> If a provider offers to migrate you to a new node because the node you're on is overloaded...RUN to a new provider as fast as you can because if a provider can't manage the loads on their servers properly it won't be long before that brand new node is also suffering the same problems as the old one.



Not to derail this drama-thread, but I decided to give the benefit of the doubt, since, hell- he's an Admin! Plus, his answer after I was moved took about a minute. Changing the MTU in 2017? Not quite so much. Hell, I don't even put up with that sort of hokiness on my personal network, and I still have 10/half JetDirect cards on segments of it.

It told me that they had an answer, but no control over the network itself, and that frightened me as much as a Bitcoin payment nulled-WHMCS in Ukrane.



Jordan said:


> At the time everyone was being moved to a new node, because the disk configuration in that location was inadequate. His move was just being fast tracked.



You'll notice that at no point did I infer that you were unprofessional- as that was not my impression. Just didn't fit the bill for what I wanted at the time due to issues. I don't expect to get my ass sucked for $10/mo, but I also don't expect to be pushed away, either.

</derail>


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

WasNotWSS said:


> Not to derail this drama-thread, but I decided to give the benefit of the doubt, since, hell- he's an Admin! Plus, his answer after I was moved took about a minute. Changing the MTU in 2017? Not quite so much. Hell, I don't even put up with that sort of hokiness on my personal network, and I still have 10/half JetDirect cards on segments of it.
> 
> It told me that they had an answer, but no control over the network itself, and that frightened me as much as a Bitcoin payment nulled-WHMCS in Ukrane.



MTU change is down to the Voxility GRE tunnel. Not ideal, and soon will not be an issue.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> Wow you're just rambling aimlessly now... I've been asking you to publish the PM's for ages... All I've done is requested you post them for the sake of providing a balanced argument (as did Lee), but clearly you were getting carried away.



Thanks but there was no further confirmation needed; it was already clear that at budgetnode while playing admin they actually don't care a rats ass about rules. One of which is: private conversations are not made public.

You see I profoundly detest ishaq but rules are rules, hence I would under no circumstances publicly post a private conversation with him.

Not that it was needed but, voilà, there you have yet one more difference between you guys and me.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Thanks but there was no further confirmation needed; it was already clear that at budgetnode while playing admin they actually don't care a rats ass about rules. One of which is: private conversations are not made public.
> 
> You see I profoundly detest ishaq but rules are rules, hence I would under no circumstances publicly post a private conversation with him.
> 
> Not that it was needed but, voilà, there you have yet one more difference between you guys and me.



Ishaq has given permission for them to be posted, and wants you to.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> MTU change is down to the Voxility GRE tunnel. Not ideal, and soon will not be an issue.



My experience with Voxility tunnels has never required an MTU change.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

@bsdguy, now you have to admit it is now coming across as if there is something in that conversation you do not want anyone to see.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> Ishaq has given permission for them to be posted, and wants you to.


I'll try to make that easy to understand: There are rules. Not publishing private conversations is one of those rules.

Now, I know and it has been amply proven that ishaq doesn't care a rats ass about rules and is more than happy to publish things that he came to know from private conversations, but that doesn't somehow magically change how the world works.

It is also known and amply proven that ishaq is dead-seriously believing that any- and everyone has to dance to his tune and to do whatever he pleases but, alas, that's a problem he'll have to address with a professional psychologist.

As far as I'm concerned I don't give a rats ass about what ishaq wants or wants not. I'll stick to the rules of the civilized world.

@Lee Strange that you say that. You are a mod and you should know that I sent the requested report incl. unedited PMs (except for credit card data). So, *obviously* it's not about hiding.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> I'll try to make that easy to understand: There are rules. Not publishing private conversations is one of those rules.



Ok, there are unwritten rules that private conversations should stay private, but if both agree then no issue. All it will do is add weight to your position for those of us on the outer edge of this.


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

Lee said:


> @bsdguy, now you have to admit it is now coming across as if there is something in that conversation you do not want anyone to see.



It's been.. _5 minutes? _Not that I have any place to say anything, but- maybe he has to load up GIMP or something?


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> There are rules. Not publishing private conversations is one of those rules.



Where? In my mind, if both parties agree for the content to be shared, by all means share it. You're only doing yourself a disservice by refusing to share at this point.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

@Jordan - Now that you have registered feel free to add some offers for folks that may not be familiar with the brand.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

Jonathan said:


> My experience with Voxility tunnels has never required an MTU change.



It is not specific to Voxility but GRE. By default it's MTU is 24 bytes less than the physical interface. If the OS interface is not adjusted, it collapses.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Then be it and I do myself a disservice.

I have provided them to the admins/mods here as requested based on the assumption that they are trustworthy and understanding that they need some way to verify that somebody doesn't just come up with freely invented shit.

That, however, can still be regarded as private. As for the rest I'll stick to rules and to civilization. I will certainly not give some ishaq the weight to drop and ignore my principles.


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## Lee (May 10, 2017)

What you have sent to us is absolutely private, it will not be disclosed to anyone for any reason unless you request it.


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## Jonathan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> I have provided them to the admins/mods here as requested based on the assumption that they are trustworthy and understanding that they need some way to verify that somebody doesn't just come up with freely invented shit.



The information provided to us for verification of services was not and will not be shared. Want to make sure that's clear.

Mine and @Lee's comments about sharing it were based on the context of this thread, not to imply we would ever use the logs provided.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

@Jonathan, @Lee 

Don't worry, that's exactly how I understand it and I do trust you.

I *know* myself that publishing the PMs would help my case. But that doesn't come free, that would require that I drop a principle, a "holy" rule.
I could even explain it away, based on ishaq yesterday publishing information gained in a private conversation.

But I'm not willing to do that. It would mean to give some ishaq enough weight to make me break my rules. Won't happen.

And I've come far with that attitude. The fact, for example, that all my other providers trust me and like me and some even went so far as to publicly speak well about me is certainly at least in part due to my attitude to stick to rules no matter what. That i.a. constitutes reliablity.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

Which book is this "holy" rule printed in? Does it say that sending PM's to VPSBoard Staff is a valid exception?


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

@Jordan OK, now you're coming off as a bit of a dick..


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

WasNotWSS said:


> @Jordan OK, now you're coming off as a bit of a dick..



Well, I'm sorry if I am but I'm not trying to be. But there is one gaping hole in the story when he is preaching about this belief of his - he gave the PM's to someone else without permission from us.


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> Well, I'm sorry if I am but I'm not trying to be. But there is one gaping hole in the story when he is preaching about this belief of his - he gave the PM's to someone else without permission from us.



Following the flow of this thread, you gave "Ishaq's OK" before BSDGuy claims to have sent it on to VPS admin. If we're going to split hairs on which happened when, we might as well move this over to LET.. provided it doesn't magically disappear.

E: JFC, autocorrect.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

WasNotWSS said:


> Following the flow of this thread, you gave "Ishaq's OK" before BSDGuy claims to have sent it on to VPS management. If we're going to split hares on which happened when, we might as well move this over to LET.. provided it doesn't magically disappear.



No, the Ok was not given before he gave them to the moderators.


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## sandwich_theory (May 10, 2017)

4 pages in and I'm beginning to wonder what the point of all of this is?

There's two sides to every story and now the OP is withholding information that could be damaging to his tirade.

Just ban the OP until he provides the details. He has no problem complaining all day on your board, but he does seem to have a problem giving you a clear picture of what's going on. Sounds suspect.


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

sandwich_theory said:


> 4 pages in and I'm beginning to wonder what the point of all of this is?
> 
> There's two sides to every story and now the OP is withholding information that could be damaging to his tirade.
> 
> Just ban the OP until he provides the details. He has no problem complaining all day on your board, but he does seem to have a problem giving you a clear picture of what's going on. Sounds suspect.



Congratulations on your brand new account with two posts, _both in this thread!
_
As stated, evidently bsdguy sent his info to the VPSBoard Admin staff, but there may be a dickwar over time_t given when permission was given and data sent, but I've already ceased giving a shit.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Funny, how the budgetnode people keep lying.

ishaqs permission to publish the PM logically necessarily includes the permission to confidentially pass them to the team here. So, I *did* have permission.

As for the book, don't worry, it's not the kind of book you or ishaq read.

Btw: Your (and ishaqs) attempts to force your will or "rules" upon me are futile. You are in no position whatsoever to dictate anything to me. Get used to it.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Funny, how the budgetnode people keep lying.
> 
> ishaqs permission to publish the PM logically necessarily includes the permission to confidentially pass them to the team here. So, I *did* have permission.
> 
> ...



Ishaq's permission came AFTER you passed them on - as I've already stated.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

sandwich_theory said:


> 4 pages in and I'm beginning to wonder what the point of all of this is?
> 
> There's two sides to every story and now the OP is withholding information that could be damaging to his tirade.
> 
> Just ban the OP until he provides the details. He has no problem complaining all day on your board, but he does seem to have a problem giving you a clear picture of what's going on. Sounds suspect.



Cute


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## sandwich_theory (May 10, 2017)

I've got no job and all day to waste on here with you. Let's derail this thread together by being unprofessional.


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## bsdguy (May 10, 2017)

Jordan said:


> Ishaq's permission came AFTER you passed them on - as I've already stated.



Good Lord must you be desperate to lie so obviously. ishaq gave permission *before* I gave anything to the admins/mods here. Hint: Re-read your own posts


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## WasNotWSS (May 10, 2017)

sandwich_theory said:


> I've got no job and all day to waste on here with you. Let's derail this thread together by being unprofessional.



Nah- get banned first. I already took one for the team.


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## Jordan (May 10, 2017)

bsdguy said:


> Good Lord must you be desperate to lie so obviously. ishaq gave permission *before* I gave anything to the admins/mods here. Hint: Re-read your own posts



I stand corrected. Was mistaking it for the proof of service you provided earlier.


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## zed (May 11, 2017)

this would be such a non-issue if both the budgetnode guys hadn't waded in guns blazing.
probably sometimes you want to bite down on that pain and let us plebs think you're the bigger person(s).
something something showing your ass etc.

thanks for the dramatics!


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## maounique (May 11, 2017)

jarland said:


> culminating in your use of LET as a platform to declare that child molesters are victims.



And of course, you do have proof of that... Mods saw it and you know what happend. I mean, for those that managed to actually read.
As for your calls to censor me, go on, one hand washes the other, it was actually VPSboard that started making rules against me, you are only a copycat and a bad one at it, because you made up the whole story, I never said that. I said that as long as this problem is not addressed properly, there will be more victims, some which would have been spared otherwise, killed to hide the tracks, which I am sure you would have done too, since you are so brave and do leave the proof for everyone to judge who was right.
Nice change of the story though, now you try to say you banned me for OT stuff... on LET! You think everyone is a moron, except the pale skinned red-blooded christian fox which are smart and strong, right?
What about the part where you clearly went against the rules advocating and offering support to host illegal stuff, that was the thing that started the whole issue, when I tried to explain to you that breaking the law is never a solution, that is perfectly OK, same for name calling and slander, right, because an admin has the right to break the long written and accepted rules, while making up others to ban whoever is thought to be "unamerican" POST-factum... And you even hid the thread from "non-registered" people so I can't find the proof...
The fact that Ishaq and most of the others did not have the spine to stand up to you, makes you special... Well, it worked, what can I say, this time you won.
Congratulations.
Let's see if you can ban me here too.


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## jarland (May 11, 2017)

Sigh...


None of it was lies, it's all documented and archived, and nothing I offered to host was illegal you're just a terrible armchair lawyer.

All I'm going to say on the matter. You know how to reach me privately if you desire to be dismissed further.


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## raindog308 (May 11, 2017)

This thread was fine when it was focused on BudgetNode, but it's about to morph into a "rehash past LET grudges and drama" thread, so I'm closing it.


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