# Why is there no maximum wage



## GIANT_CRAB (Aug 25, 2013)

Title says it all.

Why is there no maximum wage?


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## perennate (Aug 25, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage#Criticism_of_maximum_wages


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## Chronic (Aug 25, 2013)

GIANT_CRAB said:


> Title says it all.
> 
> Why is there no maximum wage?


Do you think there should be one? If so, why?


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## DearLeaderJohn (Aug 25, 2013)

Because it would limit innovation as people would have nothing to strive for, it would essentially mean working harder would gain no reward


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## Lee (Aug 25, 2013)

Why should there be?

Sorry, but the question was worded to only benefit from another question.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh look, another "question" ripped from a chanboard, phrased in a manner to stir up class drama.  The real question is... why do you folks keep feeding the troll?


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## jarland (Aug 25, 2013)

Because if poor people ran the world everyone would starve together. Screw solidarity, I want a steak.


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## Jono20201 (Aug 25, 2013)

Footballers should be maxed on £60k/yr, and thats been generous.


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## drmike (Aug 25, 2013)

It's a fair question really.   

When it comes to money, income and rights, eventually people who cranked long enough about toiling look back at the boss man and then say "let's punish him some more".

Frankly, I do not believe in minimum wage.  Never should have been enacted in the States.  At the same time, other things should have and some were and some weren't.  For instance workplace safety -  but maybe not OSHA - was a VERY GOOD thing.

No two people (employees) are the same.  Their dedication isn't the same.  Week to week investment isn't the same.  Why should they be paid the same?  Why should the government get to dictate what someone gets paid?  Are they their agent or manager?

For the company owner, he assumes all the risk, typically invests way more hours at a rate lower than the law would allow for an employee.  Should the law mandate/interfere and dictate he must draw at minimum a minimum wage for the 80+ hours he invests a week for often these days, free?

All of these matters, the employee relationship, the role as employer and the overstepping of government are a decay of natural rights of people to contract.

Employees contracted, agreed to terms of employment.  The employer agreed to terms to have the employees time and energy.  None of that should be any place of the government.

Sure there are exploiters and slave drivers posing as employers.  But, by headcount sheerly there are way more employees milking the golden cow and defrauding the employers.

I love when I see tech giants, like Google with their $1 salary gimmick.   Isn't that a mass violation of minimum wage laws?  Surely, it is.   Nearly certain it can be done with proper structuring and the use of various contracts that shift the "employee" into a contractor.

The future is nearly all contracting and ninja skills.  Those fighting the worker rights socialism gimmick are going to be left in the dust bin of history, starving.  MInd you the employer ends up subsidizing/supporting those handouts disproportionately.  Employers can't win no matter what they do. 

Err, both sides have valid issues and problems.  Solution, contracts.  

My other solution that no one seems to want to do --- worker owned collectives.  Every employee is an owner -- everyone is invested.  You all fail as a group or succeed as a group.  Superstars, ninjas and lazy slackers are all averaged down or out and everyone performs at least mediocre.


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## DearLeaderJohn (Aug 25, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> It's a fair question really.
> 
> When it comes to money, income and rights, eventually people who cranked long enough about toiling look back at the boss man and then say "let's punish him some more".
> 
> ...


Having talked with my father in the past about his time contracting throughout the middle and far east (spanning around 20 years), I know for a fact the contractor life isn't that wonderful, it's in fact a very lonely lifestyle which involves living out of a suitcase most of the time. (Keep in mind that was the 80s and 90s)

--

Off topic

However all of the revolutions you hypothesise about will never become a reality unless you get out and do something about it, I see you're quite a commentator on a lot of subjects however it'd just be nice to see you try and follow through with some of your ideas (I agree with some and disagree with others). Not to say I dislike you, in fact it's the opposite (I love a good, rational debate), but arm-chair commentators don't change anything. Also doing things that are unpopular by the majority never helps either as those are the ones you need to convince. See 50 years ago today peaceful protests were made and that made the difference; that's what I believe all of the hackers today don't understand is that they need to be positive and get the general public on their side to make way for change...not disrupt and damage their day-to-day business.


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## concerto49 (Aug 25, 2013)

It happens in a communism world. There's maximum and minimum wage. Everyone just gets paid the same no matter what you do. It existed in history. It got revoked. Would you like to try again?


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## MannDude (Aug 25, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> My other solution that no one seems to want to do --- worker owned collectives.  Every employee is an owner -- everyone is invested.  You all fail as a group or succeed as a group.  Superstars, ninjas and lazy slackers are all averaged down or out and everyone performs at least mediocre.


Have wanted to do that, though hard to do with a small group, I think. Need to be large enough that decisions can be done on votes where it's not just 2 people, 3 or 4 people voting. I'd say a 5 member collective would be the minimum.


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## MannDude (Aug 25, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Oh look, another "question" ripped from a chanboard, phrased in a manner to stir up class drama.  The real question is... why do you folks keep feeding the troll?



It's okay. I'd like to think we're all fairly mature here. I've yet to see anyone get too worked up in this thread.


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## texteditor (Aug 25, 2013)

Eat the rich


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## jhadley (Aug 25, 2013)

Because those who generate the most value for society would generate less value for society.


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## texteditor (Aug 25, 2013)

jhadley said:


> Because those who generate the most value for society would generate less value for society.


Nope, those with the highest wages extract the most value from society, their subordinates produce it


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## drmike (Aug 25, 2013)

I did the contractor route in the 1990's onward.  In fact, I still do between being a business owner.

Contracting is running your own business-lite.  Both often (especially today) are extreme commits of your time (who is lying, 80 hours is a slacking week).

As for revolutions,  people are in the US at least too complacent.  Life is rather luxurious for even the most down trodden. If it weren't for a remote control, most would be too stuck on the couch to even change the channel.  Emerging world though, different story.

I enjoy commenting here and do so elsewhere.   I've lived a very robust life with tons of career changes.  Gone through the trenches.  The life experiences are still more than useful, while the technology has changed.

Parts of being alive are learning, living, and collecting.   You live and learn, along the journey you collect, experiences, memories, physical baggage.  Really, what we all are is uniquely collected heaps of raw materials and thoughts and ideas borrowed from others.  Sure, some of us build upon things and remix our own style into the pile of life.

All that flowery dancing aside, commentary on things, public discourse should be encouraged.  Schools should be teaching youths not to be public speakers (see our better colleges) but to be vocal as needed.

Too much chatter these days (although not here) of revolution.  I have yet to see myself an organic people created revolution.  The next revolution is independence of ones mind.  Breaking the bonds, unsubscribing to norms and expectations.  Distilling life to its bare essence.  

What happened in the 1960's, politically speaking, wasn't a peace movement.  It was a mass infusion of drugs, irresponsible sexuality, erosion of families, etc.   It destroyed time tested norms and replaced much of them with government control of private citizens.  But sure, the 60's were fun, if you didn't die during it.

A true revolutionary of the 1960's was properly calling the unwashed protesting masses some bad names.  Certainly was pointing to most of it as Communism's social marketing 1.0 takeover.  Look at the decline of America there onward.  Pretty ugly.

Hackers aren't revolutionaries, typically.  Getting social support for misdoings?  It's the argument of two wrongs don't make a right.  Trouble and negativity are never the way to lure folks except to have social decay, breaking of things.

Then again, intellectuals and passive non violent behavior isn't changing things either.

Change starts in your home, then with your neighbors, then the town, city, state.  Grassroots or never will have a foundation which to support itself.


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## drmike (Aug 25, 2013)

*Change starts in your home, then with your neighbors, then the town, city, state.*

This is what everything comes down to that matters.

This site is the neighborhood for some of my interests 

What's great about here and other broad online communities is the input from diverse people who live in diverse lands and diverse histories.   Too much pure social majority rules fake democracy in reality and in virtual lands.


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## texteditor (Aug 25, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> What's great about here and other broad online communities is the input from diverse people who live in diverse lands and diverse histories.   Too much pure social majority rules fake democracy in reality and in virtual lands.


Be honest: how diverse do you think a forum full of English-speaking tech enthusiasts with the disposable income to buy and operating hosting businesses and services is?


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## VPSCorey (Aug 25, 2013)

What are we going to do when robots begin replacing labor en masse.  Foxconn announced they were going to replace over a million workers with robots, and subsequently had their asses handed to them by the Chinese government in the background.  Because they quietly abandoned the idea.  Can you imagine the social unrest that would create?

Google Manna Chapter 1, read the story, and decide which society we should develop.


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## drmike (Aug 25, 2013)

texteditor said:


> Be honest: how diverse do you think a forum full of English-speaking tech enthusiasts with the disposable income to buy and operating hosting businesses and services is?


I don't think it (this forum) is as diverse as an academic study operated in some laboratory setting claims to be.  But I don't believe it is as non-diverse as a church group in my neighborhood where half the parish is related to one another.  

Heck, I am not even sure if we here blend ourselves into the middle ground or even a norm.  Fairly balanced and broad representation except for current income or aspirations for said.

Obvious that some folks here might be of certain socio-economic group in their country.  But the pure economic component even from country to country can be pretty different.  Middle class in one country and poor by standards in other.  Yes, comparing to local populaces might enjoy common higher living standard.  There are still many people laboring under caste and caste-like systems.  

Now, be fair, English speaking tongues often outside US and UK are tongues shared by other languages.  A non-native English speaker brings many different experiences, views, regional traits, etc. typically.

Utopia here?  No, but there is a good bit of diversity.  What is absent?  The same thing that is in all tech environments, women / females.   That surely indicates the biggest diversity lacking area.  That's a good discussion itself.


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## drmike (Aug 25, 2013)

FRCorey said:


> What are we going to do when robots begin replacing labor en masse.


Many sci-fi pieces have been wrote about this right?

Fairly common concept that human herd most likely will be intentionally thinned in the future.

I grew up in a steel producing town in the shadows of the smokestacks.   I saw massive and instant decline of an industry that seemed too big, too heavy, too import taxable to just up and disappear.

Folks still blame steels decline on Asia and Eastern Europe and near free labor plus no real environmental regulations.  Even though there is truth look at  all the other parts that are more under domestic control to regulate that. Tariffs come to mind first.  Voting politicians out of office for inaction comes to mind second.

At the end of the day, steels decline was starting phase of the disinvestment in the United States.  Steel hasn't been needed at scale since the 1960's in the US.  Major projects have been way reduced.   Maintaining public infrastructure has gone way downhill to nearly no investment.   The cost due to price inflation has ballooned.  While in Asia, population growth, growing populations and nearby buyers of steel for new construction.

If at the grassroots level people started cleaning up the neighborhoods (yes for now I still reside in a city), investing in run down homes, mentoring youths, interacting with their neighbors, etc. it would shuffle the deck and stem declines.

People will cry it takes money.  Yes it does, some money, not millions of taxpayer dollars.  A can of paint, some brushes, some bags, gloves, shovels.  Pretty reasonable and finite list.

In those sort of communities alternative currencies like barter will naturally develop as trust is built.  Others will gain employment through their relationships.  Economics will diversify some away from that historic company owned town employee abuse relationship.

Those communities, they'll do alright, no they'll do much better absent government handouts and entitlements. They'll do better in the new or no economy than folks think.  Problem is getting these people to realize that before violence and revolution chants are sounded.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 25, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> But I don't believe it is as non-diverse as a church group in my neighborhood where half the parish is related to one another.


Wait a minute... you're in LA? >_>


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## drmike (Aug 26, 2013)

No LA for me, never been fond of cities in Cali.  Did live in NYC for 6 months and that was quite enough


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 26, 2013)

buffalooed said:


> No LA for me, never been fond of cities in Cali.  Did live in NYC for 6 months and that was quite enough


Louisiana suh, not Los Angeles .  Referencing the 'parish' quote - we're the only state that has 'em, and it's pretty rare to run into someone that remembers the original meaning of the word when not talking about government mappings.


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## drmike (Aug 26, 2013)

Funny @Aldryic 

You go to many inner cities and it's confusion and relationships and strange family reunions these days. 

Louisiana ain't so bad.  I think it gets a bad rap.  Driving straight up the middle of the state though like I did on one trip was slow and cop infested.  No one looked happy and every home on that route was up on blocks. 

Shh, don't hate me.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 26, 2013)

Yah, see, this is why I live down in the corner, by the Gulf   Baton Rouge and Alexandria are horrible places -_-.  And once you get up around Jackson and Ouchita... eeeeeeeeeeeeh almost as bad as going to Texas >_>


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## drmike (Aug 26, 2013)

Oh noted you don't like Texas.  I surely didn't like east Texas.  Hated Oklahoma (no offense to the board Okies).

Far West Texas and down in what ought to be Mexico, it's neat out there.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 26, 2013)

East Texas, aye... being their neighbor is likely what caused my animosity there   Haven't spent enough time in West Texas or Oklahoma to form any opinion of them though.

Admittedly though, my dislike of Orange/Beaumont/etc _PALES_ in comparison for the absolute intolerance I have of Jersey and California :3


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## drmike (Aug 26, 2013)

Intolerances  Your sentiments are shared by me on NJ and CA 

Montana and Idaho are appealing to me these days.  If I could just get use the winters.  

I need a winter time share location somewhere warm.


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