# Taking a couple years off... College



## FHN-Eric (Aug 19, 2013)

Just so all of you know. I will be taking 24khost's advice. I am going to step away from hosting for a few years while I go to College. I will still be here though, I just won't be as active. I graduated from high school this year, and am going to College to get a degree in IT Networking, and IT Computer Science.


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## MannDude (Aug 19, 2013)

Good luck!


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## KuJoe (Aug 19, 2013)

Don't take out student loans, if you do it's a waste of time and money. 

I personally don't believe college is of any real value, but then again I learned more outside of college than I did in college so maybe college is useful for others who don't learn things outside of a structured environment.


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## HalfEatenPie (Aug 19, 2013)

Good luck!  College is always worth it.


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## shawn_ky (Aug 19, 2013)

Wish you the best of everything! Take what you are given everyday serious even when those around you will not... Study hard and you will succeed!


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## WebSearchingPro (Aug 19, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> Don't take out student loans, if you do it's a waste of time and money.
> 
> I personally don't believe college is of any real value, but then again I learned more outside of college than I did in college so maybe college is useful for others who don't learn things outside of a structured environment.


Having finished my Associates degree and pursuing my Bachelors, I can attest to this; the things you learn in college will not get you ready for what you will face in the real world. However, there's a chance that your degree will help you get your foot in the door for a new career, as well as the foundations for further educating yourself with real world experience. 

Best of luck! 

Do good, and don't forget about scholarships! Much better than taking out student loans.


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## drmike (Aug 19, 2013)

Be reasonable with school.  Realistic education where jobs exist.  

Make sure you like/can tolerate the work so you don't waste years and a fortune.

Try to find internship / apprenticeship ASAP in relative industry.  Companies are glad to have low cost labor and someone truly interested in the field. 

Student loans,  don't fund your life with them.  Be way reasonable and cheap.

Is college worth it?  Today, not usually unless a very strict field that requires the degree.

My recommendation, community colleges and lesser cost environments for basic stuff and credits (make sure transferable to where you are intending to get degree from).  For IT related (networking in particular) an Associates degree is more than a sufficient investment and time waster.  Would do good to look at "trade" schools offering the equivalent and weigh the costs and time to achieve.


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## Jade (Aug 20, 2013)

WebSearchingPro said:


> Having finished my Associates degree and pursuing my Bachelors, I can attest to this; the things you learn in college will not get you ready for what you will face in the real world. However, there's a chance that your degree will help you get your foot in the door for a new career, as well as the foundations for further educating yourself with real world experience.
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> Do good, and don't forget about scholarships! Much better than taking out student loans.


@WebSearchingPro

You're right, if you go to school and study hard, you're more likely to get a better career than most people. You pursuing your Bachelors is awesome! Keep going till you have enough knowledge(Oh wait you can never have too much) 

@Eric

Anyways good luck to you and going to college! Hope to see you back here soon!


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## MartinD (Aug 20, 2013)

Jade said:


> @WebSearchingPro
> 
> You're right, if you go to school and study hard, you're more likely to get a better career than most people. You pursuing your Bachelors is awesome! Keep going till you have enough knowledge(Oh wait you can never have too much)


That's rubbish. Most of the incredibly rich people in this world did none of that. Bill Gates, Richard Branson... etc. I would agree with Joe - sometimes there simply is no need to spend all that money getting an 'education' when the real world is so different anyway.


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## notFound (Aug 20, 2013)

MartinD said:


> That's rubbish. Most of the incredibly rich people in this world did none of that. Bill Gates, Richard Branson... etc. I would agree with Joe - sometimes there simply is no need to spend all that money getting an 'education' when the real world is so different anyway.


Please don't use that argument, those people are the 0.1% who turn out so sucessful. It's true you don't need to go to college/uni to make a sucess of yourself. The average person doesn't think like that, they'll try and get a degree because they'll be more likely to get on the job ladder and secure themselves.


Honestly, the alternatives aren't so good, starting a business out of nothing and being sucessful would be quite tough. Taking an apprenteship means you're trapped to one company.. It's easier overall to get a degree if you can (it's not everyone's cup of tea) and progress onto better jobs and make a sucess of yourself like that.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Aug 20, 2013)

Infinity said:


> Please don't use that argument, those people are the 0.1% who turn out so sucessful. It's true you don't need to go to college/uni to make a sucess of yourself. The average person doesn't think like that, they'll try and get a degree because they'll be more likely to get on the job ladder and secure themselves.
> 
> 
> Honestly, the alternatives aren't so good, starting a business out of nothing and being sucessful would be quite tough. Taking an apprenteship means you're trapped to one company.. It's easier overall to get a degree if you can (it's not everyone's cup of tea) and progress onto better jobs and make a sucess of yourself like that.


While true enough, you can't go blindly into the Uni direction either.  ANYONE planning on spending time and money to attend college/university needs to be wide-eyed stupid about realizing that having a degree does not guarantee a middle-class existence.

The best tactic I've found is a combination of hard work and natural affinity.  Use College _ONLY_ to enhance your skillsets, as it will not guarantee you a job.  As a personal example - I started working for a local Coca-Cola plant loading trucks.  Did that for 6 months, took a driving/delivery spot when it opened.  Did that for two years, spent my spare time after my route helping the ladies in the office fix their computers/etc.  Now I'm running the IT department for the entire division here - with absolutely no college/uni education to my name.  It shouldn't be that hard to find a similar setup just about anywhere - you just have to keep in mind that you will almost never start with the job you want;  but if you're willing to work for it, you can get much farther than just walking up and saying "Hey there, I have this diploma thing" will ever get you.


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## Reece-DM (Aug 20, 2013)

Well done with deciding to go to college, its for the best sometimes, though from personal experience it sucked and I was "Better Off" Running my own business than some shady college work which was printed offline somewhere.

)


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## KuJoe (Aug 20, 2013)

There is one rule of thumb that is worth following if you want to be successful without a degree (this coming from a person with a degree that my boss didn't know about until over a year after he hired me): *"It's who you know, not what you know."*

I am where I am now because I worked at Dominos as an assistant manager and one of my drivers worked in HR and my manager's mom was in charge of the internship program at my current place of employment. I was working in the same department I am now before I was old enough to drink without even a real high school diploma (5 years wasted there and they gave me my diploma on accident). While I admit I was probably the biggest geek at my school and knew more than most of my college professors at both colleges I attended, in corporate IT you can get away with following manuals and using Google if you wanted to (just don't volunteer for any projects, high profile shifts, or critical maintenance windows).

So here's some secrets to getting ahead in the corporate IT world:


*Network.* You never know who knows who or does what so if you go to conventions or seminars for a field you want to work in, build your contact list. If you work in any job that is a viable option for part-time work for 9-5ers, get to know your co-workers. Online networking is fine, but in my experience people rarely vouch for somebody they haven't met in real life and a recommendation from somebody you've worked with (even if it's in fast food) is 100x better than somebody you talk to online. If you do go to school, make friends with your instructors.
*Internships.* Internships are amazing because they are extremely easy to get if you're in school and while you are there they train you on both the company procedures and how to work in the department you are interning for. In addition, if a full-time position opens up, managers and HR would always prefer to hire in-house rather than externally because you have a track record of your abilities and work ethic and it's usually a lot less paperwork. Internships are also really good for resumes and count as work experience. The pay usually isn't the best, but when I was an intern 8 years ago I was making almost 1.5 times more than I was as an assistant manager at Dominos so it was well worth it.
*Certificates.* For some reason managers love certs. They are cheaper, easier, and a lot quicker than school and a lot of IT areas require them and will accept certain certificates in lieu of a degree.
*Do what others don't want to.* If you're young and able to stay awake at nights, I highly recommend looking for a night or weekend position in IT. It's very rare to find somebody who is willing to work outside of the 9-5 window and chances are the pay is a lot better if you work an off hour shift. To give you an example, we had one night shift position that was available for 6 months and after more than 50 interviews, they were willing to give the job to anybody who would agree to work nights.
I'm sure I have more advice to give, but I need to run.


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## Damian (Aug 20, 2013)

At 28 years old, I'll be attending college within the next year or two. I also feel that this will be mostly a waste of time or that I don't really see the entire value of doing so, as I, through experience and relationships, have advanced to making a nice pile of money per year on my own accord.

The problem is security: if I should happen to lose my day job, there's very little precedence for me to be able to start at another company doing the same thing at the same approximate pay. So my mindset for this is not really to learn anything new (though i'm sure I will), but more or less to ensure that I can keep doing what I do; for "life security".

The big question is: what do I want to be when I grow up? Do I want to do something I already do? Or do I want to go to college for something completely different? So many decisions...


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## KuJoe (Aug 20, 2013)

Damian, I would think really really really hard about such a decision. I went to school for the same reason (a safety net for the future) and during the first year I loved it. There were a handful of classes and instructors I enjoyed but IMO I didn't get $75k worth of enjoyment nor did I learn $75k worth of knowledge. Ultimately I brought this upon myself by getting a degree in Computer Network Systems, a field that I already knew and was well beyond the knowledge they would teach in a classroom. I had more IT experience than some of my teachers at that point and when you have to explain to your classmate next to you every week how to do a ping and traceroute, you quickly realize that college is designed for people who need to learn something and not for people who know that field and want a piece of paper to prove it.

Honestly, the vast majority of the students in the same program as me were people who were doing construction jobs who wanted to learn how to work with computers. Most of them struggled with our intro classes but they got a lot more out of the classes than I did (especially since I was instructed not to answer any questions).

This is why I highly recommend people who already know a wide variety of skills to focus on certs instead and use them to build a strong focus on a specific area (i.e. servers, networking, security, storage, etc...). It's a lot cheaper, a lot less time consuming, and you'll get a lot more out of it by focusing on one area and learning everything there is to know about that area. While some people will scoff at certs, managers love them and managers are the ones who hire people.

Now if your goal is to go to school for something completely out of your realm where you don't have much experience/knowledge in then I'm all for that. You'll have to work a lot harder than in a field you already know but you'll get a lot out of it.

Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into and make sure you can afford it in the long run. One of the reasons I haven't sold my house in Florida yet is because my student loans would prevent me from buying another house in the next 10+ years and I really don't want to buy a house in my late 30s.


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## KuJoe (Aug 20, 2013)

Also, I apologize for being so negative regarding the subject. I just think I would feel better if I shared my mistakes and others could possibly learn from them.


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## mitgib (Aug 20, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> Also, I apologize for being so negative regarding the subject. I just think I would feel better if I shared my mistakes and others could possibly learn from them.


Your only mistake was not joining the military


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## KuJoe (Aug 20, 2013)

mitgib said:


> Your only mistake was not joining the military


Joking aside, it's one thing I will always regret. If I didn't meet my wife in high school my life would be completely different.


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## Damian (Aug 20, 2013)

And throwing another wrench into the works is that today our landlord offered to sell us our house for $reasonableamount that, if we kept paying the same that we do now, the house would be paid off in ~8 years when i'm 36 and the wife is 35. I think we would be fools to not take them up on the offer , but I can't help but to think: what if?



mitgib said:


> Your only mistake was not joining the military


One of my regrets in life was not joining the military too. Some of my friends tried to get me to go, and I got as far as taking the ASVAB, but it never really appealed to me at the time. I don't know why it does now... maybe I feel that the military would better apply my skillset than my day job.


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## drmike (Aug 20, 2013)

@Damian, how is the area?  How are the schools?  Safe enough and stable enough to honestly think it will alright area in 8 years?  Look at the tax burden also (comes with the rest of the fun).  Also look over the house in a big way.  Good roof?  When will it need done and what does it cost?

Rapid paydowns on real estate = sane.  So long as area doesn't devalue your investment.  Been there and done that.

@KuJoe,  I like your style.  Wise words from the trenches.


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## jarland (Aug 20, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> Don't take out student loans, if you do it's a waste of time and money.
> 
> I personally don't believe college is of any real value, but then again I learned more outside of college than I did in college so maybe college is useful for others who don't learn things outside of a structured environment.


College with minimal effort to graduate = no better than anyone else.

College with full effort to best utilize time spent dedicated to educating yourself in your field of choice = better than the person who did the same and has no paper to say he did so.

Another way to state it:

Degree + knowledge > Knowledge without degree.

Just because it isn't worth what it was 30 years ago doesn't even begin to remove all value from college. If something had a value of 10 and has been reduced to 5, it is still greater than 0.


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## KuJoe (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm just speaking from personal experience. My college degree has only negatively impacted my life so it's removed value from my future. I am sure I'm not the only one either.


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## mikho (Aug 21, 2013)

Good luck!


Hope you will enjoy your time and learn something.


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## mitsuhashi (Sep 1, 2013)

@KuJoe I respect your personal experience but a lot depends on the school, and what that school wants to make you into. The CS101 class at my school 14 years ago was definitely not something anyone with a day job could do without prior mastery of the subject, as it jumped straight into programming with deadlines assuming that students already had some basic experience (like a calculator due by the second class and getting harder from there). The CS105 class for us business students was far far easier, as it only covered all of MS Office and a VBA project or two.


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## shovenose (Sep 1, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> I'm just speaking from personal experience. My college degree has only negatively impacted my life so it's removed value from my future. I am sure I'm not the only one either.


Out of curiosity, could you explain how your degree negatively impacts you?


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 1, 2013)

shovenose said:


> Out of curiosity, could you explain how your degree negatively impacts you?


Out of curiosity, is there any reason you only read the last couple posts of an in-depth thread and then ask obvious questions which have already been answered?


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## shovenose (Sep 1, 2013)

Aldryic C said:


> Out of curiosity, is there any reason you only read the last couple posts of an in-depth thread and then ask obvious questions which have already been answered?


Actually, I read everything in the thread before asking my question. And that doesn't answer it.


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## Aldryic C'boas (Sep 1, 2013)

> There were a handful of classes and instructors I enjoyed but IMO I didn't get $75k worth of enjoyment nor did I learn $75k worth of knowledge.






> I had more IT experience than some of my teachers at that point






> One of the reasons I haven't sold my house in Florida yet is because my student loans would prevent me from buying another house in the next 10+ years


Above are three quips from the post I linked to, each of which could answer the question on their own without further context.


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## KuJoe (Sep 1, 2013)

Aldryic is correct. The limitations my degree has put on my ability to finance anything has greatly impacted my life and my future negatively. Even if I stay current with my loans, my debt to income ratio is bad enough so that I won't be able to buy another house and I'm not sure what it will be like when I need another car.

So far I've seen 0 benefits from my degree, nor do I expect to ever see any benefits from it so it doesn't even balance out in the end.


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## Slownode (Sep 1, 2013)

Maybe people are finally starting to realize almost all educational institutions are for-profit in one way or another, and the people running them care more about making money than education.

There's a lot of things you can learn without needing college/university, especially thanks to the internet. Some things really need to be in classes though like lab work, etc.


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## Zach (Sep 1, 2013)

KuJoe said:


> Aldryic is correct. The limitations my degree has put on my ability to finance anything has greatly impacted my life and my future negatively. Even if I stay current with my loans, my debt to income ratio is bad enough so that I won't be able to buy another house and I'm not sure what it will be like when I need another car.
> 
> So far I've seen 0 benefits from my degree, nor do I expect to ever see any benefits from it so it doesn't even balance out in the end.


This.  What you learn is not worth the price you pay.  I think I've said that here a few times already.


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## Slownode (Sep 1, 2013)

&nbsp;



Zach said:


> This. &nbsp;What you learn is not worth the price you pay. &nbsp;I think I've said that here a few times already.


That expensive piece of paper does have one use, there are many jobs which require it... but many others would rather have someone proven themselves.

Video game dev degree = Maybe you get a job starting at $25k (soooo many applicants, you still need a nice portfolio)


Created a successful commercial title = Start at $50k


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## ztec (Sep 2, 2013)

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6382742/613cc9a0/dumpert_inspiratievid.html


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