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Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

texteditor

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I disagree, the 777 is quite modern and Malaysia Airlines has a fairly good safety record.  Commercial airline travel is overall extremely safe, however will always be accidents as sometimes shit just happens.  

It'd be extremely hard to land such a large aircraft undetected, and if you did land in some grass strip there's little chance that it'd be taking off again without some major work, which kind of kills the whole "terrorist usage". Not to mention hiding the plane with 200+ PAX while the whole world is looking for it.  Terrorists want planes flying and loaded with fuel, not rusting in some jungle airstrip for future usage.

It took nearly 2 years to recover AF 447 ( the last major 777 crash), which shows that while the Earth is a very big place we will find the plane eventually.  It's quite possible that one of the pilots crashed the plane intentionally however terrorism seems quite unlikely as if someone did bring down the plane they'd be quick to claim responsibility. 
AF 447 was an Airbus, not a Boeing 777. The 777's track record is pretty stellar, the actual last major crash of a 777 was Asiana Airlines Flight 214, which only had three fatalities and is one of only three hull-loss crashes accidents the 777 has had (the other two resulted in no deaths, one was an on-ground cabin fire and the other a crash-land caused by iced engines)

That said, the post you quoted was probably referring to their outdated radar equipment, not planes.
 
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peterw

New Member
I disagree
If the plane is save the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah or the copilot Fariq Abdul Hamid had to manipulate the system. The pilot only worked for Malaysia Airlines. According to Malaysia Airlines, Shah joined the airline in 1981 and was certified by Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation as a simulator test examiner. He had 18,365 flying hours.

Hamid, 27, who had 2763 hours of flying, was last week the focus of media reports he invited two women into the cockpit on a flight from Thailand to Malaysia in 2011, where they posed for photos and breaking security regulations.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-police-raid-home-of-lead-pilot-zaharie-ahmad-shah-20140315-34u3n.html#ixzz2wDDgeanj

 


According to new data, the Boeing 777 was still flying at 8.11am, seven hours after it disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Radar signals ­recorded by the Malaysian military appear to show the plane climbing to 45,000 feet, which is above the approved altitude, and making a sharp turn to the right not long after it disappeared from ­civilian radar.
 

texteditor

Premium Buffalo-based Hosting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash was a flight that flew for roughly four hours by itself with an incapacitated crew before it ran out of fuel and autopilot shut off, if anyone wants some 'strange plane accidents' reading

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edit: I mention it because, like in a few other similar wrecks with depressurized cabins, this accident also ascended above it's approved limits before autopilot kept it up and flying for several hours

edit2: note that this only happens in gradual decompression, likely due to pilots suffering hypoxia during an ascent causing the plane to keep ascending until it levels off.
 
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nunim

VPS Junkie
AF 447 was an Airbus, not a Boeing 777... 
You're absolutely correct, I don't know why I was thinking it was a triple 7, however it did still take nearly 2 years to recover the craft.

In regards to the radar, even if it'd happened off the coast of the US or Europe we'd only have slightly more information, radar coverage over oceans is spotty.
 

MartinD

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
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*Random Scenario* 

It could be possible that they hijacked it and landed it on an old WW2/coldwar abandoned airforce base on an island (There are lots of them) and a majority of the passengers are still alive and they are waiting for a perfect time to deliver ransom demands if they haven't already. 
This is pretty much my thoughts too. I reckon it has been stolen and may possibly be used for less than desirable actions at a later stage.
 

D. Strout

Resident IPv6 Proponent
This is pretty much my thoughts too. I reckon it has been stolen and may possibly be used for less than desirable actions at a later stage.
It boils down to this: if it's been hijacked, then it had to be landed somewhere, and there really isn't anywhere that a plane that size could land without someone knowing about it. If it crashed, then how did it happen? If by an inept hijacking attempt, why was there originally so much skill in turning off transponders and navigating by GPS waypoints? If it was hijacked for the purpose of crashing, why has no one taken responsibility? If it was a "normal" (i.e. accidental) crash, how do you explain the behavior observed? Basically, all the explanations put forward so far come with big question marks.
 

MartinD

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Verified Provider
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Well yes but then a lot of these questions aren't based on action/reaction. 'Why has no-one taken responsibility?' is an open ended question - no-one needs to take responsibility for the theory to be true. It's not the norm, granted.. but until 911, flying a jumbo jet in to a high-rise office building wasn't the norm either.

It's also true to say that it could have been hijacked and landed somewhere with (or without) people seeing it. Those who've seen it wouldn't necessarily want to let others know if it was done under duress or in fact if those witnessing it had something against Malaysia/China.

There are far too many unknown variables to form any 'most likely' scenarios until more information is known, sadly.
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Actually, a Chinese terrorist group did take responsability, but it's not possible to confirm if their claim was legitimate or not.

Now the Malaysians are saying that it flew at an altitude so low that it was able to evade radar. But they don't know if it went north, south, east or west... :huh:

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-flew-low-1-500m-avoid-detection-says-011918423.html

"Flight MH370 flew for an estimated eight hours and the authorities believe it would have flew over two additional countries besides Malaysia, although it's not clear which ones."

Who writes this shit? So they pretend to know that it flew at a low level to avoid radar detection, they report this as fact and not as a possibility (read the article)... if it was flying that low then certainly, I'd imagine, someone... somewhere would report it. Even if there are places beneath a flight path they'd not be used to seeing a large craft flying so low.

Another day, nobody knows anything still, at least not publicly.
 

D. Strout

Resident IPv6 Proponent
"Flight MH370 flew for an estimated eight hours and the authorities believe it would have flew over two additional countries besides Malaysia, although it's not clear which ones."
Aside from the ridiculousness of them not knowing which countries it was over, I didn't think they had enough fuel to fly on for eight hours.
 

SkylarM

Well-Known Member
Verified Provider
@hellogoodbye With radar, though, it's somewhat complicated. There are two types of radar - "regular" radar that's been around since WWII that actually picks up "echos" bouncing off of objects (e.g. a plane), and "modern" radar that works together with equipment (i.e. the transponder) on board each aircraft. The aircraft originally disappeared off the newer radar system, so basically the transponder shut off. Military radar could still pick it up since it's of the older type, but the various countries that detected it on that radar didn't want to tell anyone because they didn't want the world to know how good their radar is. Slowly information is coming in from those countries, as well as info from the engines (transmitted via satellite). It all points to hijackers purposefully turning off various communications systems, then flying to points unknown.

Unfortunately the ATC system is fairly antiquated. The radar systems in use today are basically what you said, the echos bouncing off, and then the transponder is just a way to add information to a signal, such as altitude, speed, Aircraft type, call sign, and filed flight path (this is called a Mode C Transponder). The difference is literally a dot on a screen or a dot with an associated Data Tag. 

I'm not familiar with the airspace down there, but a great example is flying over the Atlantic from New York to London-Heathrow. You hit a point where you are so far from land that you are no longer on any radar systems, and instead are being "tracked" by a flight service station. Basically you call in at specified waypoints and provide information relating to your altitude, latitude, longitude, current speed, and current heading to next waypoint. There is no radar here, just someone tracking aircraft based on information the pilot passes to the controller. The spot in where they lost communications is likely a similar area (just by looking at a map, seems likely). Once you disable your transponder, you still have that BLIP on a radar, if there is a radar, but none of the other information that a data tag would include.

No radar services means you could fly wherever you want until you hit controlled airspace, and then your "echo" would show up on radar again. At this point you can likely fudge the system by flying low enough that your surroundings interfere with the echo (hills, etc), or low enough in lighter-controlled airspace that you are below an ATC "floor". This floor is uncontrolled air space, and your ATC radar would have any data BELOW said point disabled on their scope to prevent unnecessary clutter from your average VFR traffic flying below controlled airspace.

Seems unlikely that they would actually get anywhere without anyone knowing they landed, or without SOMEONE seeing SOMETHING on a scope at one point or another. Even when flying below controlled airspace, there's likely a system somewhere that is pulling data and still tracking these blips, but you'd have to know what the blip is based on historical data from the rest of the flight (which gets lost when you don't know exactly where the aircraft started flying to outside of the initial uncontrolled airspace over the water).

Not sure how a noisy 777 would be able to fly under controlled airspace without someone hearing or seeing a plane flying in a manner that isn't typical of other traffic in the area. Being so far out from the aircraft's disappearance I'd have expected someone to come forward by now. Even IF the aircraft was somehow able to fly at a low enough altitude to slip under radar services, it seems unlikely that nobody would notice a 777 landing. You'd hear it, you'd feel it. You'd know something was wrong. It's one thing to fly a few thousand feet in the air below atc service, it's another to actually LAND an aircraft somewhere that doesn't get those types of planes. Seems likely it's at the bottom of an ocean somewhere.

That specific flightpath it was scheduled to fly would put it potentially in range of flying as far North west as Pakistan. It's about 2300 nautical miles. HOWEVER, you're not factoring in flying against the winds, or flying at a lower altitude resulting in more drag and faster fuel consumption. If it somehow isn't under the ocean and somehow happened to land somewhere, I doubt it would have made it more than 1000-1500 nautical miles from it's origin airport best case scenario.

Just seems unlikely, given the information that is publicly available, that it would have made it anywhere without at least some form of detection at one point or another, being radar, military radar, civilian detection (if it was indeed flying low), or otherwise.
 
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D. Strout

Resident IPv6 Proponent
Just seems unlikely, given the information that is publicly available, that it would have made it anywhere without at least some form of detection at one point or another, being radar, military radar, civilian detection (if it was indeed flying low), or otherwise.
Indeed, but if someone's not telling...
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
BREAKING NEWS

THIS JUST IN: No one, anywhere, knows anything... still.

Actually there was an article saying that they may have spotted something off the coast of Australia that may be the wreckage and they're sending a ship out, but it could be anything at this point.
 

peterw

New Member
The search action has started:

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