Thoughts on public shaming / blacklist of accounts in negative standing?

[Aldryic C'boas]

The logs don't liiiiiiiie.

Nice attempt at deflection, but I've *never* denied kicking you off of our network for pulling that idiotic stunt.  Also old news, but the difference being I wasn't hanging out with skids encouraging DDoS.  I just removed the idiot who was.  But let's not pretend this was ever about anything but you feeling the repercussions of your actions.  No matter how much you try to make me look like an asshole (surprise, I AM!), it won't absolve your sins.

 

[joepie91]

The logs don't liiiiiiiie.

Nice attempt at deflection, but I've *never* denied kicking you off of our network for pulling that idiotic stunt.  Also old news, but the difference being I wasn't hanging out with skids encouraging DDoS.  I just removed the idiot who was.  But let's not pretend this was ever about anything but you feeling the repercussions of your actions.  No matter how much you try to make me look like an asshole (surprise, I AM!), it won't absolve your sins.

Absolutely no deflection going on here, simply pointing out the bullshit you're floating and the underhanded tactics you've used on your side of the conflict. "Not hanging out with skids" - which, by the way, is a somewhat dubious claim given the... history of Frantech - is completely irrelevant to one's own personality or actions.

I've long ago taken responsibility for what has happened, and written it off as a past conflict that is not worth constantly rehashing. It's about time you did the same.

 

[William]

Quoting for the lulz, that's clearly very much too far for a provider...

<Aldryic>Here's the deal.  You cannot get to vpsb because I nullrouted your IP months ago after your repeated ban evasions.

<Aldryic>You leave this ircd, for good, I'll lift the null.

Anyway:

Fortatrusts list is gone for good reasons.... i would not advise to run anything similar, especially not if your charges are as disputed as theirs are and "shamed" customers are mainly people that ran from "contracts" that locked them in something without even providing reasonable (or any) services... - I.e. i got listed (as company) at one point for cancelling a server that was wrongly provisioned (US instead of Panama)  by them and my tickets about refund/correct deployment were just ignored.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

I've long ago taken responsibility for what has happened, and written it off as a past conflict that is not worth constantly rehashing. It's about time you did the same.

Sure.  Tell you what - I'll offer the same deal I did last time.  You actually admit that what you did was wrong (not 'a bad idea', not 'an accident'), and sincerely apologize?  You won't hear another word about it from me.

Try to BS it off again as 'not a big deal', 'not your fault', etc?  Yeah, you can expect to have that lovely gem of a log drug up any time you start feeling respectable somewhere.

Quoting for the lulz, that's clearly very much too far for a provider...

To be perfectly honest, I didn't even consider VPSB or other forums we might host when I issued the nullroute.  I got sick of having to repeatedly ban him from IRC (when he'd go tell some sob story to a chanop and get back in, not mentioning who removed him), and simply nulled his IP.  It was Curtis that brought him not being able to reach VPSB to my attention some time later, and after Sven contact me and it was made very clear he wasn't welcome (and he wouldn't try to come back), the null was lifted within minutes.

 

[joepie91]

I got sick of having to repeatedly ban him from IRC (when he'd go tell some sob story to a chanop and get back in, not mentioning who removed him),

Which, again, never actually happened. And if you think it did, I'm sure you can provide logs of said events, right? Feel free to post them for all to see.

Sure.  Tell you what - I'll offer the same deal I did last time.  You actually admit that what you did was wrong (not 'a bad idea', not 'an accident'), and sincerely apologize?  You won't hear another word about it from me.

Try to BS it off again as 'not a big deal', 'not your fault', etc?  Yeah, you can expect to have that lovely gem of a log drug up any time you start feeling respectable somewhere.

I've made my statement about this before. If you believe that is insufficient, that's your choice - but get off your moral high horse, because you've not exactly displayed exemplary behaviour in this conflict either.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

Your statement was:
 

a clear admission that it wasn't a good idea

Never once did you bother even manning up to apologize for goading attacks our way.  So yes, I find that very insufficient.  And no, there's no conflict - you're the spoilt child that is convinced he never did wrong, and is using any excuse possible to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.  You weren't even a legal adult when you pulled that crap, and to this day you still act in the same manner.

No apology?  No worries.

 

[joepie91]

Never once did you bother even manning up to apologize for goading attacks our way. 

I did, in a previous discussion.

And no, there's no conflict - you're the spoilt child that is convinced he never did wrong, and is using any excuse possible to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.

And it should be very clear from this thread by now, that that's not the case. You can keep repeating this, but it doesn't make it any more true.

You weren't even a legal adult when you pulled that crap

Aside from not seeing how this is in any way relevant, you might want to check your maths there.

and to this day you still act in the same manner.

And again, it should be very obvious by now that I do not.

Still waiting for those logs, by the way.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

You want logs?  Go dig for them, I don't keep backlogs past a week.

Still waiting for that apology, by the way.

 

[joepie91]

You want logs?  Go dig for them, I don't keep backlogs past a week.

I'm sure one of those "chanops I told a sob story to" would have them. You make the claim, you provide the proof.

Or do you expect to be blindly believed by everybody when practically every post that you've made in this thread contains at least one lie or misdirection? You seem to have spontaneously "forgotten" to respond to the parts where I pointed out the things you made up.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

There you go trying to misdirect again.  Still waiting on that apology, btw.

Here, I'll even make it easy on you, just copy and paste: "I'm sorry, it was a stupid thing to do, I shouldn't have encouraged attacks towards Fran's network or clients."

Not that you'll actually do so.  But no worries kiddo - that log says FAR more about you than I could, and thanks to the magic of Google anyone looking for your name will see that come up now.  Oh, plus anyone on VPSB reading this thread that might have actually taken you seriously at some point.  And any partially relevant threads I may feel the need to bring it up on in the future.

Done with you for tonight, got exactly the rise I wanted out of you. 

*hattip*

 

[joepie91]

There you go trying to misdirect again.  Still waiting on that apology, btw.

Here, I'll even make it easy on you, just copy and paste: "I'm sorry, it was a stupid thing to do, I shouldn't have encouraged attacks towards Fran's network or clients."

Here you go:

"I'm sorry, it was a stupid thing to do, I shouldn't have encouraged attacks towards Fran's network or clients."

I've already told you this before, in public even. I don't really understand why you seem so insistent that I "refuse to apologize". Are you now going to claim that "well, that wasn't sincere"?

But no worries kiddo - that log says FAR more about you than I could, and thanks to the magic of Google anyone looking for your name will see that come up now.  Oh, plus anyone on VPSB reading this thread that might have actually taken you seriously at some point.  And any partially relevant threads I may feel the need to bring it up on in the future.

Done with you for tonight, got exactly the rise I wanted out of you. 

*hattip*

Frankly, I feel like this thread reflects a lot worse on you than it does on me. But I'll leave that one up to the peanut gallery.

 

[Nyr]

To be perfectly honest, I didn't even consider VPSB or other forums we might host when I issued the nullroute.

You could null him on the IRC box and not at your border then, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt... your position clearly changed when you were trying to use that fact for your personal benefit:

 <Aldryic>Here's the deal.  You cannot get to vpsb because I nullrouted your IP months ago after your repeated ban evasions.

<Aldryic>You leave this ircd, for good, I'll lift the null.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

You could null him on the IRC box and not at your border then, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt... your position clearly changed when you were trying to use that fact for your personal benefit:

You are 100% correct.  On my part, the VPSB connection was insignificant, but it was still a dick move.  I'm *fairly* certain that the conversation began with something along the lines of 'Why am I blocked from VPSB', but like I said, I don't keep logs that long:


-00:40:38- Demi:~/irclogs :: aldryic % ls -R * | grep joepie

-00:40:41- Demi:~/irclogs :: aldryic %

I've worked a long time cultivating a reputation of an asshole - bringing that fact to my attention is more just wasting your breath than anything   But I'm a man of my word.  He apologized, so as far as I'm concerned the matter is not worth bringing up again.

 

[drmike]

Well this is progress  I was about to start apologizing.

Lots of folks have retro drama and learning lumps.  Life is like that.  Hindsight in my mirror is picking up more of my fat ass these days.  I've probably eye jabbed folks a little rough here and there and spent 30 seconds later feeling like a prick about it.  Comes with the territory for some.

I'd be retaining salty mouth if I were running a network and getting packet slaps or threats thereof since historically the stuff was more impactful.  I can relate to harboring the feeling.  

I like Joe and ideally both sides call the whole thing just part of where folks once were. History!

@Nyr good to see you in these parts.

 

[HN-Matt]

Fortatrust used to maintain a public blacklist of accounts that maintained debt with the company, though it appears to be gone now. I personally thought it was a great idea, even if the criteria for listing wasn't. I recall it being controversial.

Is there a reason this practice isn't more widely adopted? Perhaps with more 'reasonable' criteria, such as payment owed exceeds a minimum amount of $100, 3 number of contact attempts have been made with no response and reasonable time for payment to be collected has passed, like 30 days. That criteria is all just an example, but to me seems reasonable.

Do you think such a blacklist that is made public would encourage those to settle their debts or pay up once listed?

I was considering doing this to someone who bought a web host from me and 'mysteriously' decided to stop sending monthly payments for it after a while. Still owes more than the 'small claims court' limit and has not sent any money in years, yet continues to profit from the host! I made a website and did a write-up explaining the situation (i.e. telling their clients that they're paying the host my money), but didn't have the heart to keep it up for more than a few hours, then deleted it. Debt collection is not in my nature. I'm owed quite a lot, yet I feel bad trying to collect. Don't have it in me to name and shame.

 

[Servers4You]

I was considering doing this to someone who bought a web host from me and 'mysteriously' decided to stop sending monthly payments for it after a while. Still owes more than the 'small claims court' limit and has not sent any money in years, yet continues to profit from the host! I made a website and did a write-up explaining the situation (i.e. telling their clients that they're paying the host my money), but didn't have the heart to keep it up for more than a few hours, then deleted it. Debt collection is not in my nature. I'm owed quite a lot, yet I feel bad trying to collect. Don't have it in me to name and shame.

If the client is overdue on payment by over like 2-7 days, you should of suspended the account until payment is received, they are now using you to profit because you don't have the heart to put them down for non-payment.

 

[splitice]

I dont think anyone should be shamed for failing to cancel a service, i.e letting it expire. While as a provider it is annoying, and it wastes resources (overdue period, suspension, then termination) it is so common, and most people dont see anything wrong with it. If as a provider you cant absorb the costs of it happening occasionally you probably need to look at your markup, or look at the number of customers leaving your service

Now, if you are defrauded - chargebacks, serious intentional abuse, etc - then its entirely different. Listing in a community resources (i.e FraudRecord) can save other providers from the same pain.

 

[joepie91]

If the client is overdue on payment by over like 2-7 days, you should of suspended the account until payment is received, they are now using you to profit because you don't have the heart to put them down for non-payment.

I think he literally meant that they bought a web host from him, as in, a company.

 

[HN-Matt]

Yep. Not a client, just someone who finds it easier to run a business without paying their business expenses.

If only the world worked that way for all of us! Wouldn't it be great to run a business without having to pay for it?!

 

[Clouvider-Dom]

Privacy laws and T&C's that you might have in place might be the biggest obstacle in doing so. I don't think 'public shaming' would go through anywhere in Europe TBH.