Tips for an Upcoming Provider

[OSTKCabal]

Hi everybody. My name is Wyatt, aka OSTKCabal here on the Internets.

I'll start this post by asking you to understand that I am a relatively new contender here on the good ol' VPSBoard, as well as the VPS hosting industry in general. I am also 17 years old (Nearly 18. Aren't you proud?) - I ask that you do not judge me based on this and rather offer supportive and helpful insights to a new provider.

I am not yet going to release the name of this project, as it's still a few weeks to a month or so out, and we're most likely not going to launch VPS services until we have done our own testing with it.

I have had almost exactly 2 years of direct experience in the server hosting industry, having worked for 2 different providers as Support as well as high-level operations advisement. I have also run my own little hosting operation for Minecraft in the past. I can't say that I know everything - I see myself as being more experienced with general management and business planning than the tech side of things - But I have indeed gained myself a decent reputation in the gaming industry.

So, here are the questions. I'd invite anyone and everyone to give your honest answers.

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

Thank you all so much for participating in my little thread here. I wanted to get your opinions about services so we can build a hosting service that we - and you - can be truly proud of.

Looking forward to your replies and getting to know the vpsBoard community a bit better.

- Wyatt T.

OSTKCabal

 

[MannDude]

1.) DDoS protection isn't really needed by everyone. It's great for those who need it, but most do not. If you offer it, please offer non-DDoS filtered services at a lower cost as well.

2.) Also depends on the use. For a dev project, something not mission critical or just for deploying a VPS I can use now, I choose OpenVZ. If a production site, I generally try to stick with KVM.

3.) I'd rather pay a bit more for a service that has less clients sharing the same resources that I am, regardless of server specs. A beefier server with more customers on it may not perform any better than a server of lesser specs with less customers on it. I'm more interested in the balance.

4.) It doesn't hurt, but if the company where the hardware is rented from is competent then it's not a bad option to rent. It saves you from being responsible from inevitable hardware failure and networking issues.

5.) Not very dependent. Normal business hours are good for me, though if there is a network wide outage or something I want someone available who can fix it to be alerted and woken up somehow. If office hours are 9AM to 5PM and at 10PM when you're going to bed an entire node is down... then waiting until 9AM to fix it is not acceptable. But for general/not very important support questions "reload OS plz" "can i hz tun/tap enabled??" etc can wait till support hours. Others may disagree, but that's my opinion at least.

Welcome to vpsBoard, by the way.

 

[OSTKCabal]

Hi MannDude,

Thank you much for your reply. please allow me to clarify a few points.

1. The DDoS Protection is a default feature of our network at this point. We have reached a deal with GigeNET to be able to offer this protection network-wide. With this deal, it also doesn't add any cost to the existing network infrastructure. The secondary good thing about this is that the DDoS mitigation kicks in when a DDoS attack is detected and only when an attack is detected, allowing clients to enjoy the combination of low-latency route-optimized inbound (GigeNET Blend) and outbound (Steadfast Blend) traffic.

2. We are going to be performing some tests on KVM virtualization to come up with final specs and prices. Thanks for your input!

3. Thank you much for the opinion! Not much to say here other than that we promise to never oversell our services in terms of CPU allocation, RAM resources, or SSD space.

4. This project is going to be a branch of an existing dedicated server provider in Chicago (Out of the Steadfast Networks 725 S. Wells facility), so this one was more of an opinion than advice question. Thanks nonetheless!

5. We understand the importance of uptime, and thus have seen to it that nodes are monitored 24/7 with our own custom developed alert scripts. We will also have staff online during all hours of the day.

I look forward to future replies and opinions!

Thanks again!

- Wyatt T.

 

[hellogoodbye]

Hi! I'm not knowledgeable about VPS hosting by a long stretch, but I figured perhaps a different perspective would be of some help to you. I have a couple of plans with different providers strictly as an end user who uses them for personal websites and as a file repository/back up. 

 

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

 

For my purposes, it's not important but it would be nice to have since these days it seems like anyone can be susceptible to DDoS attacks. If I have to pay an extra fee for it, however, I would rather take the risk and do without it.

 

 

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

 

I don't have a favourite, probably because it doesn't make much of a difference to what I'm using it for. I guess I tend to lean towards OpenVZ for that reason, since people often offer cheaper plans for it.

 

 

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

 

Since I'm not using my servers for actual business purposes or anything mission critical, I don't mind older hardware as long as they're still reliable and not terribly oversold.

 

 

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

 

It honestly depends, because if you're a new company that means very little to me since I know next to nothing about you and how dependable you are, whether you're committed to running a business for the long haul, etc. I think hardware that is leased from elsewhere can be okay if you're upfront about who you're leasing from and we're able to determine for ourselves whether that company is trustworthy or not.

 

 

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

 

I'll be honest, there is a ton of things I still have no clue about when it comes to managing a VPS, but that's what Google is for (and it has saved me more times than I can count). I only open a ticket when the problems are more on the provider's end (mostly network issues and downtime), or if I want to make changes to an existing plan. I only expect support beyond business hours when the problem is significant and prolonged, at which point I would like timely updates on what is going on and what is being done to resolve it. An ETA on when the issues are going to be resolved would be nice, but as long as there is communication I don't mind that too much. Again, I don't run a business or anything mission critical which is why it's not an issue for me. 

 

[D. Strout]

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

DDoS protection is not very valuable to me right now, but then I've never had to deal with a DDoS and try to avoid getting in to one. Still, even though I don't have much use for it, no one can say it doesn't add value. It is a valuable feature, done well.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

Though there is a lot to be said for the additional isolation that KVM brings, I prefer OpenVZ because of the simpler setup around it, and the ease with which it can be managed (e.g. changing passwords). And of course the lower price tag is a bonus.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

As @MannDude said, it's not always the hardware, it's the overselling (or lack thereof). Whatever hardware you use, manage it well. Personally, my usage does not require the latest and greatest, so long as I'm not provisioned on "trash".

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

Simply put: yes. It means they're in it for the long haul. For bonus points, get your own ASN.

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

Not at all. 9-5 EST is fine by me. If I'm opening tickets after/before those hours, I should probably be in bed myself.

I must say I'm glad of the civility that has been shown in this thread so far as regards your age. That said, I feel it's fair to give you some advice, not as a 30-40-something, but as someone near your level. I'm turning 19 on Thursday, and though I am very competent in all things computers, I do not feel I have what it takes to run a VPS business. The primary thing is cash. I've heard the idea thrown around here and elsewhere that you should be prepared to run your business at a loss for the first year. I find I agree with that. Even if you rent hardware, you're still looking at a hefty chunk of change to keep a server (preferably two, in case a full swapover is necessary in a catastrophic hardware failure, then possibly a third backup server) running for a year with no profit. I know I don't have that in my back pocket. If you do, and you feel you have sufficient Linux experience to get started, great! Best of luck to you. If not, consider how you'll handle that day six months from now when you're just starting to break even, and the server bills are due tomorrow and you don't have a lot of spare cash. That's how you get a very bad name in the industry, so you need to be sure it doesn't happen.

 

[peterw]

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

DDoS protection is not suitable for most of my webpages. The routing suffers and I don't need any protection. But your scenario is interesting because kick in ddos protection is way better than auto nullrouting.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

OpenVZ is better for developers. One click os install and better performance. I have one KVM because I want to run FreeBSD.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

MannDude is right. I don't want to have a 10Ghz cpu which I have to share with 500 other users. Big servers are used to oversell. Less user mean less processes running which is important for OpenVZ.

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

It is important. Owning your ips too.

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

I don't need 24h support but I want 24h checks on the node. When my vps is down I want a email from my provider. He should tell me he is working on it. If I have to open a ticket to tell the hoster that his node is down: Epic fail.

I want to add a private note. Finish your education goals and have a job that covers your living. If you start a company it is your wife and your best friend. You will only have time for your company. And you have to spend five years for this. Five years of hard work and eating spaghetti to cut costs. You need insurances and have to take care for bills and taxes. My best friends are in the industry and they are spending 50% of their time for paper works. I see a lot youngsters failing as startups because they did not think about laws, taxes, bills, contracts, lawyers. If you do not fail you have to employ people. You need to know people and choose the right employees. Employees create more paper work. You will not see Solus or terminals for weeks.

You will be your own boss so you have to do all work not the work you like.

 

[HalfEatenPie]

I want to add a private note. Finish your education goals and have a job that covers your living. If you start a company it is your wife and your best friend. You will only have time for your company. And you have to spend five years for this. Five years of hard work and eating spaghetti to cut costs. You need insurances and have to take care for bills and taxes. My best friends are in the industry and they are spending 50% of their time for paper works. I see a lot youngsters failing as startups because they did not think about laws, taxes, bills, contracts, lawyers. If you do not fail you have to employ people. You need to know people and choose the right employees. Employees create more paper work. You will not see Solus or terminals for weeks.

You will be your own boss so you have to do all work not the work you like.

This.  100 times this.  

 

[OSTKCabal]

Thanks you all again for your input.

I want to address some additional concerns.

I am not the only one working on this project.

We've already got two very talented systems administrators for both ends of the deal, as VPSs are not the only thing we will be doing. We've got one that mainly deals in Game Servers, and one that mainly deals in VPSs and security, but both known enough about the other to do required work if the other is not online.

Redundancy, Security, and Trust

Though I highly trust the employees we have selected, as I have known them and worked alongside both of them in the game server industry, we will be keeping both internal and external backups of all mission-critical data. They will not be able to access the external backups. Beyond that, WHMCS and other control panel databases will be on local dedicated VMs that are backed up twice daily to an on-site private network backup node.

It is the branch of an existing provider.

As it is an actual branch of an existing company, that company will be providing financials and infrastructure. I am aware and have made sure that the owners of said hosting company are aware that a hosting company simply cannot make a profit within (at least) the first couple of months. As they are a past GSP, I expected them to understand that and I was correct.

Again, I sincerely thank all of your for your input and concern. I'll certainly take everything here into consideration as we move forward towards a launch of our services.

- Wyatt T.

 

[MartinD]

This = research and thought process done right.

shovenose, mtwiscool take note.

 

[Shoaib_A]

1. Yes

2. KVM

3. Latest hardware over price

4. No, it does not make any difference

5. Not dependent at all unless my vps is down due to network or hardware issues.

 

[raindog308]

My advice:


1. bring back Joel because even Mike Nelson will tell you he's the best ever.


2. I prefer Tracy for Krow


3. The weekly invention exchange waa hit or miss.


4. Prefer the mads over Pearl.


5. And most importantly, you must...oh wait...ah...OSTK...um, never mind

 

[OSTKCabal]

Thanks again for everybody's input. It is appreciated.

@raindog308 We'll be sure to bring Joel back, thanks.

 

[drmike]

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

It's an addon.  In lowend* it's life support usually for their own services.  Nice to have available.


2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

KVM since typically it is honest resources.  I buy whatever and I really tend to get it.  OpenVZ is an abuse joke and pimped worse than a $20 hooker by most providers.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?


E3 = latest hardware.  Pfffft.  E3's are desktop CPUs in my opinion.  32GB ceiling on RAM, so nodes are puny and light.  I'd take older hardware with real RAM amount, especially on OpenVZ.

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

Yeppers, shows they aren't another VPS-business-in-a-box insta-mercial.  Shows they collected their dollars to buy something or are credit worthy.


5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?
 

I shouldn't need to depend on that.  Only need it when things are broken or not able to be controlled by API and access.  Most support is due to either crap systems and resources/access or simply plain bad uptime/performance.  Self inflicted by provider.

 

[OSTKCabal]

Hi @drmike

Thanks for your opinion.

If you did not read my earlier replies, we will be offering both OpenVZ and KVM services.

I am planning on offering both E3 SSD-Based services, as well as Dual E5 SSD-Cached services. Either way, however, I refuse to oversell in terms of RAM, SSD Space, CPU allotment, etc.

As we are also a game server provider, performance is going to be a massive focus and we will be performing extensive testing before we even consider launching our VPS services to ensure that our clients are getting the quality and speeds that they pay for and expect.

We will be trying to run a trustworthy and community-based business, and I believe that getting honest opinions from existing community members is a great way to start. That said, communication and transparency are very important to us, and we hope we make that fairly obvious as we move forward.

Thanks again!

- Wyatt T.

 

[drmike]

Welcome Wyatt, another transparent provider  Where is my transparencyTM trademark  since I've been pushing that term for multiple years in the segment?

Overselling is fine. Not overselling is self imposed lean business that may not be sustainable, but depends on your underlying costs as well as prices to customers.

Those straight SSDs, yeah novel.  High cost.   Lean income to date with such.  Good luck with that.  It's doable, but I don't recommend it.

 

[Packety]

1. Is DDoS Protection important to you? Does it add value to the service you are buying from?

Never actually needed DDoS protection but would be nice if available, because you never know.

2. What is your personal favorite - OpenVZ or KVM?

OpenVZ all the way, it more simple and easier to use for me, also it feels like people are offering cheaper plans for it.

3. Do you prefer to pay a bit more for the latest hardware (Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell, Samsung 840 Pro SSDs, LSI MegaRAID), or would you prefer to save a few bucks on slightly older hardware?

Depends how old it is, but i would mainly look for resources that are not shared with to many people

4. Does company-owned hardware add value and a trust factor to your provider?

Yes it does, because then i know there will not be some cheap rented servers,

5. How dependent are you personally on 24/7/365 support?

I do not personally need 24/7 support unless there is something wrong about the servers, or the software

 

[HostXNow]

I think for many, starting small is important advice. Slow growth is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[OSTKCabal]

I think for many, starting small is important advice. Slow growth is not necessarily a bad thing.

I completely agree with you. It's not like we're going to expand to become a global provider overnight. While a single location might limit our market somewhat, we're placed in downtown Chicago and offer excellent connectivity to much of the U.S. and Canada.

Beyond that, if it's the company-owned hardware you're worried about, we're able to offer this as a branch of an existing dedicated server provider that has their own suite in the Steadfast Networks 725 S. Wells facility in Chicago.

Furthermore, we will be offering other hosting solutions to assist with bringing in profit and sustainable income, though we have indeed planned our VPS services to be sustainable but affordable for the end user without overselling or loss in quality. I'll be sure to release more information on this as we get closer to the launch.

 

[Packety]

I think for many, starting small is important advice. Slow growth is not necessarily a bad thing.

I agree with you, just as long he dont lose more money than necessary.

 

[switsys]

1. No.

2. KVM.

3. I would prefer to "save a few bucks" on slightly older hardware.

4. No.

5. No.