telephone
New Member
That's not really fair to include the Sandbox instances, as they're still in beta and come with no SLA.
Vultr and false claims.
- Thread starter drmike
- Start date
That's not really fair to include the Sandbox instances, as they're still in beta and come with no SLA.
Amitz
New Member
I do not think that you are an employee at all. I think that you do it for the love of DaveA. Which is completely okay. It just lets you seem very biased.
DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
I included them because for something labeled "beta" they've been surprisingly stable since I started using them last year
I think the 4x faster claim can be meaningful, and the clock speed of the cpu's aren't really relevant. The issue with aws is you often get badly overloaded hosts, especially with the smaller instances. Yes the iron underneath might have 3 ghz clock or whatever, but you're sharing it with 20 other cpu-bound instances so you're really only getting a fraction of 1 core. I've never understood why people are willing to spend so much on AWS. I've always done better with budget vps's from places like vpsboard.
I hadn't heard of arubahost before. Why is their 1gb instance 1 euro/month when the "best selling" 2gb instance is 6.5x that amount? Promotional? Maybe shouldn't really count.
Interesting about Run above. I've been intrigued by them for a while. I wonder what will happen to OVH's other line of cloud and virtual hosting, under the OVH brand.
I hadn't heard of arubahost before. Why is their 1gb instance 1 euro/month when the "best selling" 2gb instance is 6.5x that amount? Promotional? Maybe shouldn't really count.
Interesting about Run above. I've been intrigued by them for a while. I wonder what will happen to OVH's other line of cloud and virtual hosting, under the OVH brand.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
I fully agree Willie.
I think what DaveA is trying to sell is a dedicated or rather semi-dedicated core offering. Otherwise when you have such performance numbers and customers buy and get way less experience, what are they are to think? That they got stiffed? Or that it's more marketing BS to mislead.
Problem is, nowhere does Vultr say it's dedicated core or dedicated thread. These tests could be performed on empty nodes. Absent total configs and some honesty, all you have is hype. But in honesty no way Vultr can / will be a dedicated core company. I mean VPS providers can and have done the SAME bullshit even dolling out DEMO accounts on special nodes to testers to show great CPU/dd nonsense. Hell even then and there the tests performed were done by 'independent' third parties. Entire lack o' integrity at play with their data comparison. Beyond the apples vs. oranges of two different products.
Like most of the Vultr stuff it's half baked approach to spin angles and avoid stick points that shoe horn things exactly. Can't say a thing about RAID - but can say "enterprise SSD". Cause enterprises always lack RAID or run the bottom line expanding RAID-0 (Dave loves when you ask about RAID on his forum - they've taken to deleting threads about said sore topic). Yeah multi-homed got dinged for similar marketing at the front and failure to deliver on the backside according to some.
AWS is a cloud. People buy it for the elastic concept of growing, on demand, multiple sites, live migrations, fail over, real SAN storage (minus the DD porn --- although DD porn probably means something entirely different at Vultr). AWS for it's slowness vs. a VPS provider kicks the shit out of said VPS companies and isn't going to do something stupid to your site, content, etc. Can guarantee growth with AWS, ability to withstand such, financial viability, etc. I don't use AWS, and am not their intended market - but they seem to be selling a ton of their products and at MUCH HIGHER PRICE POINTS. Hard to argue with the success of AWS.
Vultr isn't a cloud and absent some miracle, isn't going to be a cloud, regardless of how many times they say CLOUD in a single press release or how many cloud infused graphics they pretty their site with.
From their "FEATURES" page:
There is so much irony in the title...so much. How about creating a fncking cloud before claiming to be one?
Wannabes. Same would seem to apply to their bullshit envy heroes at DigitalOcean. Cloud, yeah right. Egos the size of hurricanes. Hopefully regulators take note and bring both companies back down to earth.
I've never thought there was a really clear distinction between "cloud" and vps's, enough to get regulators involved. There was a thread about it a while back and what I got out of it was that "cloud" hosts 1) offer hourly billing; 2) let you spin instances up and down with an API instead of a manual order form; 3) invoice you at the end of the month for services you've used that month, instead of pay in advance like budget VPS. Perhaps SAN storage is another feature. Really though, that stuff can all be done with OpenStack or the like. AWS is not magic. They have a lot of hardware and an ecosystem, neither of which are defining features of clouds.
AWS conjures at least a perception of unlimited expandability, but if you want big servers on short notice, you find they are usually out of stock just like at a VPS host. (I worked at a place that spent around $100K/month on AWS and ran into that problem at some critical times).
OTOH, here's someone who says he doubled his site speed by moving from Linode to AWS:
http://docraptor.com/blog/2014/08/20/linode_to_aws_migration
I wonder what kind of instances he was using, and how a bunch of Hetzner-style dedis would have compared. Unfortunately we don't seem to have anything like that here any more.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Billing isn't a cloud feature. Anything can be billed however. That's a business role and nothing involved on the hardware / infrastructure really.
Ditto for invoicing end of month. Any VPS company could post-use bill. I know why most won't though - they claim they'll be stiffed payment for services already rendered. Me I think while that is true among a minor sliver of customers, the fact is after a lousy month, lots of downtime, slow container due to neighbors that moved in and partied in their container next door, etc. customers would rightly be more inclined to say screw paying you and then promptly bail. This would leave many of these companies without that month of income over a larger subset of customers who moved the next month to avoid the crap neighbors for inability of the host to play landlord properly.
AWS being out of inventory made me snicker. Poor planning for the JIT inventory and warehousing kingdom... Guess those rules aren't applying at AWS or they haven't figured out the variables yet
AWS is far too nerdy minimalist, strange doc approach, etc. for me to go tank a sewer of time and then overpay for the luxury. No thank you.
Cloud is a big vague thing.. Arguably so is the rest of hosting. It's supposed to have elastic aspects to scale and redundancy. Redundancy isn't just having RAID and a backup. Scale isn't buy and manually provision more instances.
As-is what we see in fake clouds is as wrong as me going and selling VPS as a dedicated server. Look guys, I am selling dedicated servers for $1 a month. Sure it's a VPS, but it's dedicated. Not selling the same container to someone else. Shared hardware, so what, not like shared hosts give you unshared network and your own router...
Whole situation of these fake clouds reminds me of an eight year old using super fancy words they don't understand but heard on some biz show. #BUZZWORD-BINGO.
These guys will be cloud, when I see them at Cloud Expo 2015 at the Javits Center in New York City June 9-11. It's local and all, so no excuse.
These cats know what they are doing. They know they are are lying.
Ditto for invoicing end of month. Any VPS company could post-use bill. I know why most won't though - they claim they'll be stiffed payment for services already rendered. Me I think while that is true among a minor sliver of customers, the fact is after a lousy month, lots of downtime, slow container due to neighbors that moved in and partied in their container next door, etc. customers would rightly be more inclined to say screw paying you and then promptly bail. This would leave many of these companies without that month of income over a larger subset of customers who moved the next month to avoid the crap neighbors for inability of the host to play landlord properly.
AWS being out of inventory made me snicker. Poor planning for the JIT inventory and warehousing kingdom... Guess those rules aren't applying at AWS or they haven't figured out the variables yet
AWS is far too nerdy minimalist, strange doc approach, etc. for me to go tank a sewer of time and then overpay for the luxury. No thank you.Cloud is a big vague thing.. Arguably so is the rest of hosting. It's supposed to have elastic aspects to scale and redundancy. Redundancy isn't just having RAID and a backup. Scale isn't buy and manually provision more instances.
As-is what we see in fake clouds is as wrong as me going and selling VPS as a dedicated server. Look guys, I am selling dedicated servers for $1 a month. Sure it's a VPS, but it's dedicated. Not selling the same container to someone else. Shared hardware, so what, not like shared hosts give you unshared network and your own router...
Whole situation of these fake clouds reminds me of an eight year old using super fancy words they don't understand but heard on some biz show. #BUZZWORD-BINGO.
These guys will be cloud, when I see them at Cloud Expo 2015 at the Javits Center in New York City June 9-11. It's local and all, so no excuse.
These cats know what they are doing. They know they are are lying.
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DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
Humor, on April 3rd 2014, Cloud Expo's official Twitter feed tweeted that Vultr was "16X faster than #AWS".
https://twitter.com/cloudexpo/status/451696508099129344
Cloud Expo trivia: OVH was a platinum sponsor of Cloud Expo 2013 in NYC
There have been some attempts to define "cloud". The US Commerce Dept's National Institute of Standards and Technology released a definition of cloud computing in 2011 (see page 6 of this .pdf http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-145/SP800-145.pdf).
CloudControls has also been working on developing security standards for "the cloud": ISO/IEC 27017 (Cloud Security http://www.iso27001security.com/html/27017.html ). The "questions to ask your cloud provider" spreadsheet I've linked to in the past is from these standards (see http://www.cloudcontrols.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Cloud-Control-Framework-Risks-Questions-and-Controls-V3.0-EN-29052013.xlsx)
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GIANT_CRAB
New Member
@willie, AWS cloud server isn't supposed be just used alone, it is supposed to be used together with the other services they offer - Route 53, Storage, ELB, etc. CPU power sucks, no doubt at all but the tightly integrated ecosystem is what makes it powerful.
Besides, companies are willing to spend money on it because it is an established brand and they know that there will be tech support who will answer them.
There are also "cloud engineers" employees who are well versed with AWS services so when the company consult the "cloud engineers" they employed, these "cloud engineers" will say, "Hey, I'm very familar with AWS systems, let's go with AWS."
Besides, companies are willing to spend money on it because it is an established brand and they know that there will be tech support who will answer them.
There are also "cloud engineers" employees who are well versed with AWS services so when the company consult the "cloud engineers" they employed, these "cloud engineers" will say, "Hey, I'm very familar with AWS systems, let's go with AWS."
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That would make DigitalOcean not a "cloud host", then.
DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
one day later: OVH rolled out OpenStack Sandbox instances on its regular site today with an SLA: €3 /2GB RAM/100 Mbps unlimited/10GB local SSD disk/SLA http://www.ovh.com/fr/cloud/They also added a big RAM line (30GB-240GB RAM) and CPU line (7GB-120GB RAM with up to 32 cores).
The 1GB was recently reduced in price (permanently) from €4.99 to €1.00 . Think of it as a loss leader, or something to test on. Most people who use VMware "cloud" instances for production probably opt for the 2GB and above sizes.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Is OVH doing OpenStack for their "cloud"?
I saw the prices today and I must say rather insane on the first 2-3.
DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
They have multiple "clouds". RunAbove, Hubic, and the new OVH.com cloud plans are OpenStack but their dedicated private clouds are VMware (vSphere and vCloud available) and Microsoft (Hyper-V and Azure available). Their regular VPS line is also VMware (VMware for regular VPS and OpenVZ slabbed inside VMware for the budget line).
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Damn disaster.
Location, Location, Location.... the world be not just Europe.
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Hark, I too wish to have an etymological battle re: the marketing buzz word, CLOUD!
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