Oh, absolutely. I've done my share of ranting towards ZPanel and Sentora. I just feel that these events reflect very poorly on HostWinds, and they were the topic of the thread
WeLoveServers Sold to HostWinds
- Thread starter drmike
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- hostwinds weloveservers
Oh, absolutely. I've done my share of ranting towards ZPanel and Sentora. I just feel that these events reflect very poorly on HostWinds, and they were the topic of the thread
wlanboy
Content Contributer
You want to read the Zpanel desaster story:
http://forums.sentora.org/showthread.php?tid=264
Zpanel, Sentora I and Sentora II are dead - do not use them.
http://forums.sentora.org/showthread.php?tid=264
Zpanel, Sentora I and Sentora II are dead - do not use them.
Need to find another host now that WLS has been acquired as I am sure the price on my annual VPS is going to be raised for sure or be converted into a plan with lesser resources.. Had I known, I wouldn't have subscribed to a new annual VPS and renewed my current VPS I have been using there for a few years... WLS has gone downhill after it was sold to the UK company a year ago.
DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
They had a bad reputation because they actively tried to gain the business of email marketers for awhile and it took Spamhaus blacklisting a lot of their IP space to get them to clean up their act (to their credit, they are now very proactive in fighting spam and malware) http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/like-cutting-off-a-limb-to-save-the-body/#more-31399
Licensecart
Active Member
Haha ah so they was forced to change their ways. I can't see that happening with the WLS customer base though. Think of all the money they will loose.
I have never done business with Hostwinds. I do know a few people from BHW what use them and have great things to say about them.
From what i saw here is that they did send out a letter to the customers of the company that was bought out. Not many companies do that. I have seen time and time again that they try to keep it under the radar and try to hide the company was bought out. In fear of loosing those customers.
To me that is a good sign they are moving in the right direction.
From what i saw here is that they did send out a letter to the customers of the company that was bought out. Not many companies do that. I have seen time and time again that they try to keep it under the radar and try to hide the company was bought out. In fear of loosing those customers.
To me that is a good sign they are moving in the right direction.
Gah, time to look for a new company for hosting!
Migrations have started...
It seems Hostwinds puts people on higher and more expensive plans during the migration...
My $6/yr BASIC shared cPanel hosting from WLS (normally $3/month) with minimal specs converts to $8.50/MONTH -> $78.00/yr.
Their lowest plan is $6.50/month, there is no way I am renewing a shared hosting about I never used.. They did seem to have extended my plan though for a few more months.
My lot of WLS VPS' which have been running without much problem for the past few years (except recently) haven't been migrated but I am guessing it will be on their prices...
2GB VPS -> $38/yr @ WLS (8 vCPU 1Gbps) -> $210/yr (1vCPU, 200Mbps)
3GB SSD VPS -> $32/yr @ WLS (4vCPU 1Gbps 2 IP ADDRESSES) -> $378/yr (2vCPU 300Mbps 1 IP ADDRESS)
No way am I renewing at these prices, need to find another provider ASAP, too bad I dumped some of my 2-3GB ChicagoVPS $30 VPS for flapping a few months ago...
EDIT::
WLS Pricing (3GB VPS has 2 IP's):
Hostwinds Pricing (3GB VPS only has 1 IP):
Each plan seemed to be extended by 8 months from the original due dates.
Nevermind.
OK, but I still plan on moving ASAP to prevent any problems, their support doesn't know when VPS' will be moved/shut off.
Migrations have started...
It seems Hostwinds puts people on higher and more expensive plans during the migration...
My $6/yr BASIC shared cPanel hosting from WLS (normally $3/month) with minimal specs converts to $8.50/MONTH -> $78.00/yr.
Their lowest plan is $6.50/month, there is no way I am renewing a shared hosting about I never used.. They did seem to have extended my plan though for a few more months.
My lot of WLS VPS' which have been running without much problem for the past few years (except recently) haven't been migrated but I am guessing it will be on their prices...
2GB VPS -> $38/yr @ WLS (8 vCPU 1Gbps) -> $210/yr (1vCPU, 200Mbps)
3GB SSD VPS -> $32/yr @ WLS (4vCPU 1Gbps 2 IP ADDRESSES) -> $378/yr (2vCPU 300Mbps 1 IP ADDRESS)
No way am I renewing at these prices, need to find another provider ASAP, too bad I dumped some of my 2-3GB ChicagoVPS $30 VPS for flapping a few months ago...
EDIT::
WLS Pricing (3GB VPS has 2 IP's):
Shared Hosting - Shared Hosting 2015 Sale - Instant Setup
$6.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
VPS Hosting - '15 - Limited Specials - SSD 3GB
$32.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
VPS Hosting - Double Specs Deal
$38.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
$6.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
VPS Hosting - '15 - Limited Specials - SSD 3GB
$32.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
VPS Hosting - Double Specs Deal
$38.00 USD
Annually
ACTIVE
Hostwinds Pricing (3GB VPS only has 1 IP):
Each plan seemed to be extended by 8 months from the original due dates.
Nevermind.
OK, but I still plan on moving ASAP to prevent any problems, their support doesn't know when VPS' will be moved/shut off.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Why do guys buy brands, then fail to renew at the rates customers prior bought in. Are you owners that STUPID? No pre-buy research and risk assessment. I don't get deals gone wrong like that. Sure WLS sold idiot plans, but Hostwinds bought such, assumed it all, saw value, except for this customer group, that customer group, the other. Meh, stuff like this rubs a sore spot on the bottom of my foot.
I mean in fairness I have a shared plan with a big shop on annual promo and renewal rate was multiples more... so I just don't renew... Screw it... Take my ball elsewhere, failed promo, short sighted.
I mean in fairness I have a shared plan with a big shop on annual promo and renewal rate was multiples more... so I just don't renew... Screw it... Take my ball elsewhere, failed promo, short sighted.
Licensecart
Active Member
hear hear, if you buy a business you know what products they are doing and what prices you keep them at them prices for current customers and you can freely change the prices for new customers. I thought that was also the standard in the hosting industry.
I completely agree, its never a good idea to raise prices for your existing customers as you will end up losing them. Instead, if you are acquiring a company and looking to migrate them to your own hardware/DC/IPs, then I will make sure to create separate server, run them on low profits and leave those customers at the same pricing.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Time to necro this thread.
Been reading along on LET where WeLoveServers suckered people into buying their inferior services:
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/71012/hostwinds-recently-acquired-the-assets-of-weloveservers
Fox2K11 over there says:
So HostWinds massively upticked the pricing.
Also noted that they migrated customers from Europe to the United States, totally disregarding geography and crossing international borders with customer data. Tssk.
Same customer got this scorcher of an email from HostWinds
Key points:
1. The pricing that WeLoveServers was offering previously, was not sustainable for a business. The company was not profitable, nor did there appear to be any long term business plan.
2. The company was not taking ANY backups of the client's data. These nodes were setup through several third-party providers, with NO server monitoring in place.
3. The OpenVZ nodes were extremely oversold, and had hundreds of clients placed onto them. Nearly all servers were given 1Gbps transfer speeds on a node, with only a 1Gbps line.
4. WeLoveServers support was outsourced overseas to 'technicians' lacking any formal qualifications, and the bulk of the technicians lacked any access to resolve many issues.
---
1 = DUH! The rates were doable on some plans, but they did whatever to get the sale. Cut too deep.
2 = Backups = bahaha how many times are customers going to buy into the hype about backups to find out they don't exist in these shops? Unsure if WLS ever claimed backups as a feature in fairness. Should a company have such? No. I'd rather my providers didn't have backups, didn't incur the cost and didn't have my data going who knows where.
3. OpenVZ = oversold.... 100's of clients on a node... This is normal. Sad to say it, but if income per customer is $1 a month going to take 200-300 clients to cover costs and show any profit. It's what is broken about the market at LE*.
1Gbps transfer speed = bad cause shared. Meh. I love these old fossil companies. Here's a novel ideal fossils, have more than a 1Gbps uplink you big spending ballers. Nope, instead they sell customers on 1990 style crap. 100Mbps, yippies!
4. Outsourcing = overseas = no formal qualifications
Meh, it's what the largest companies in the United States are doing, and well, I don't like it. Should 'qualifications' be the issue? Sure, if the workers are morons without any experience and hired purely because they are cheap.
It AMAZES me that HostWinds bought WeLoveServers then went talking all this crap in public / email / customer communications.
This is one the dumbest deals and approaches I've ever seen. Here, buy our stuff which is 3x more in price, but we'll discount it 50% right after trash talking the prior company. Sick and twisted approach. Sadists.
Example:
$19/yr = $41 @Hostwinds
Hostwinds says 50% off 41 / 2 = $20.50
= $1.50 more? a year.
WLS was unsustainable, but suddenly same crap is sustainable by adding $1.50 a year? Come on. Extra 12 cents a month does it... I am laughing.
Sounds like they were getting so much hate and cancellations that they tried to stem the tide, right after the trash talking.
PRO TIP: @Hostwinds Hire someone to do your communications and acquisitions.
Been reading along on LET where WeLoveServers suckered people into buying their inferior services:
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/71012/hostwinds-recently-acquired-the-assets-of-weloveservers
Fox2K11 over there says:
So HostWinds massively upticked the pricing.
Also noted that they migrated customers from Europe to the United States, totally disregarding geography and crossing international borders with customer data. Tssk.
Same customer got this scorcher of an email from HostWinds
Key points:
1. The pricing that WeLoveServers was offering previously, was not sustainable for a business. The company was not profitable, nor did there appear to be any long term business plan.
2. The company was not taking ANY backups of the client's data. These nodes were setup through several third-party providers, with NO server monitoring in place.
3. The OpenVZ nodes were extremely oversold, and had hundreds of clients placed onto them. Nearly all servers were given 1Gbps transfer speeds on a node, with only a 1Gbps line.
4. WeLoveServers support was outsourced overseas to 'technicians' lacking any formal qualifications, and the bulk of the technicians lacked any access to resolve many issues.
---
1 = DUH! The rates were doable on some plans, but they did whatever to get the sale. Cut too deep.
2 = Backups = bahaha how many times are customers going to buy into the hype about backups to find out they don't exist in these shops? Unsure if WLS ever claimed backups as a feature in fairness. Should a company have such? No. I'd rather my providers didn't have backups, didn't incur the cost and didn't have my data going who knows where.
3. OpenVZ = oversold.... 100's of clients on a node... This is normal. Sad to say it, but if income per customer is $1 a month going to take 200-300 clients to cover costs and show any profit. It's what is broken about the market at LE*.
1Gbps transfer speed = bad cause shared. Meh. I love these old fossil companies. Here's a novel ideal fossils, have more than a 1Gbps uplink you big spending ballers. Nope, instead they sell customers on 1990 style crap. 100Mbps, yippies!
4. Outsourcing = overseas = no formal qualifications
Meh, it's what the largest companies in the United States are doing, and well, I don't like it. Should 'qualifications' be the issue? Sure, if the workers are morons without any experience and hired purely because they are cheap.
It AMAZES me that HostWinds bought WeLoveServers then went talking all this crap in public / email / customer communications.
This is one the dumbest deals and approaches I've ever seen. Here, buy our stuff which is 3x more in price, but we'll discount it 50% right after trash talking the prior company. Sick and twisted approach. Sadists.
Example:
$19/yr = $41 @Hostwinds
Hostwinds says 50% off 41 / 2 = $20.50
= $1.50 more? a year.
WLS was unsustainable, but suddenly same crap is sustainable by adding $1.50 a year? Come on. Extra 12 cents a month does it... I am laughing.
Sounds like they were getting so much hate and cancellations that they tried to stem the tide, right after the trash talking.
PRO TIP: @Hostwinds Hire someone to do your communications and acquisitions.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Tee hee...
shopforbritainJason West
100.0% positive feedback
11 transactions totalling $201,245
https://flippa.com/4505590-branded-sms-marketing-automation-software-saas-business
= WeLoveServers owner.
shopforbritainJason West
100.0% positive feedback
11 transactions totalling $201,245
https://flippa.com/4505590-branded-sms-marketing-automation-software-saas-business
= WeLoveServers owner.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
I looked at CC relationship and WeLove was just a customer. The former owner of WeLove is far too interested in money to share and has history / relative interests one could track.
HostWinds and blackhat I am interested in @GM2015 toss me a PM with anything you know / saw. I know HostWinds prior was pretty spammer friendly, but what shop hasn't been at one time or another? Okay, most have, not all.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Hey @drmike We believe in transparency here at Hostwinds, and as such we like to be completely honest with our clients every step of the way. The information we provided while it was not the nicest information, remains the truth. We do not feel that this information should be shielded from the public, doing so would be dishonest. We provided all of the users honest information about the company with which their VPS's were residing. I also want it to be clear that we purchased the RAW assets of Weloveservers. We did not actually purchase the company and all of their liabilities. We did a few acquisitions like this last year, where we simply stepped into to stop a sinking ship from completely failing.
I like how you broke out our key points saying how this is normal, and users will be aware of this. We have however had an outpouring of support from previous customers who simply chose weloveservers because of the low pricing. They had no idea of what that meant they were missing out on from the back-end. So while you as an industry expert may see these things as obvious points, many innocent users were taken advantage of and had no idea the environment they were trusting with their data. We have heard from many users who have been completely migrated that their server is actually usable, whereas before the speed was so slow that it was almost unusable. We have also heard from many users who have told us that long standing issues with packet loss and latency have gone away completely. While our pricing is a tad more expensive, we know from past acquisitions that users value not having to worry about their hosting. We also understand that some users simply cannot afford to pay more, and we always work out special considerations for users who ask. We get more information about what the user is actually trying to accomplish and if possible we build a plant to fit their needs. For example users who are running a simple VPN server, can get by with very little hard drive space, and RAM. We are able to build custom VPS's for these users that meets their budget. The most important thing to us is ensuring that our clients service is fast and consistent. We also strive to have the best support in the industry, something we work very hard towards every single day.
One more thing.... your math is a bit off. The customer in question was listing his pricing AFTER the 50% discount, he would normally be charged $82 for that product, the $41 is pricing AFTER the 50% discount. The 50% discount does make for pretty thin margins, however, at that pricing we can still operate our enterprise service to these clients without losing money.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
@Hostwinds appears I misread the pricing portion perhaps... or more likely the poster over there pasted wrong?
You get brownie points from me for it. It just seems oddly misplaced though after doing a deal. Mind you I am familiar with deals done while brands are on fire...
What does this RAW assets part mean? --- exact definition if you can.
This sort of thing goes on day and night and I gripe loudly about it. I vaguely recall WeLoveServers was also implicated in spamming their own offers to email addresses we never determined how they were in possession of... or something like that. I feel like it is Groundhog day with [pick random annoying lowend with high aspiration company] doing the very same stunts. Heck, about to say RICO and cartel as overlapped as some of it is.
Welcome to lowend abuse and packet therapy. I thought WLS was doing quite well as a BlueVM replacement No doubt you can improve server performance over the former clown owner and crackpots running the circus of WLS.
Meh, sounds nice, but fair uniform pricing would be the more honest thing really. Otherwise, if in the giving mood, gratis applicable users/customers with worthy use.
Good response though A++
Let me toss you a peace palm here... Spam, I see high volume of mail for your network via Senderbase. Some Brazil activity per domains, and other blah named domains that are hot clue. You continue to be actively anti-spam right? Last blips I saw were likely attributable to ahh say Burst.net acquisition?
Link to senderbase: https://www.senderbase.org/lookup/org/?search_string=Hostwinds%20LLC.
You get brownie points from me for it. It just seems oddly misplaced though after doing a deal. Mind you I am familiar with deals done while brands are on fire...
What does this RAW assets part mean? --- exact definition if you can.
This sort of thing goes on day and night and I gripe loudly about it. I vaguely recall WeLoveServers was also implicated in spamming their own offers to email addresses we never determined how they were in possession of... or something like that. I feel like it is Groundhog day with [pick random annoying lowend with high aspiration company] doing the very same stunts. Heck, about to say RICO and cartel as overlapped as some of it is.
Welcome to lowend abuse and packet therapy. I thought WLS was doing quite well as a BlueVM replacement
No doubt you can improve server performance over the former clown owner and crackpots running the circus of WLS.Meh, sounds nice, but fair uniform pricing would be the more honest thing really. Otherwise, if in the giving mood, gratis applicable users/customers with worthy use.
Good response though A++
Let me toss you a peace palm here... Spam, I see high volume of mail for your network via Senderbase. Some Brazil activity per domains, and other blah named domains that are hot clue. You continue to be actively anti-spam right? Last blips I saw were likely attributable to ahh say Burst.net acquisition?
Link to senderbase: https://www.senderbase.org/lookup/org/?search_string=Hostwinds%20LLC.
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The user
We purchased the assets owned by the company, rather than the company itself. We purchased everything they owned, servers, clients, domain etc.
I'm not saying were going to give people special pricing, Im saying were going to talk to people to figure out exactly what they need, and get them on the right plan. We often times see people who have purchased a plan with far more resources than they actually need to accomplish their goals.
We are dedicated in our battle against Spam, it is a constant and ongoing process. We filter all VPS traffic through MailChannels, and probably have more experience than most hosts in keeping mailers off our dedicated servers. I am surprised by the senderbase volume information, however I am glad to see our network is not anywhere on the spam networks
https://www.senderbase.org/static/spam/
I am honestly not sure how those statistics are calculated, however, I have someone from our abuse team going through to check in on these specific client's.
The Burst.net acquisition did bring in a fair amount of problems, however, those are all 100% contained. The WLS acquisition in many ways has brought much worse clientele than Burst.NET. Their low prices attracted users doing many blatantly illegal things with their cheap VPS's. We are terminating those users as we find them. Spamhaus has been helpful in aiding us in identifying botnet controllers that were on the WLS network. It's just taking time to identify them after we actually get them on our IP space, and are able to correctly deal with the abuse issues ourselves.
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