BUDGETGEEK TELECOMS LIMITED / 32MB Club / Random Bans

[KuJoe]

I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.

 

[drmike]

Thanks for the background @HalfEatenPie.

The IRC ban wasn't about this lad, rather it was banning a whole popular low-cost network today - Quadranet.  Sorry for the confusion there Pie.

His ban today (mtwiscool) for spamming... essentially.... Did I miss something other than this one thread he posted on today?



"I would say his actual ban was over breaking "Do not spam" and him disregarding the requests of moderators and admins (in addition to being respectful to others input... which I would say if he asked for it and he got it, then at least provide reasons as to why he didn't follow ANY of it). "

Was there something else *today* this lad did?  I've found him to be rather quiet lately.  Perhaps I am not paying attention to vpsB so much lately.

If there existed then some basis for disallowing offers from him I am unclear of why and all.  Martin even said as much prior to the ban, thus my perplexed WTF.  I haven't seen masses of customer complaints, summerhost tendencies or other outright ripping folks off, yet from @mtwiscool.  So, besides being unpopular, I am failing here to see where he tripped and fell today. [prior to, yeah some tough days with his posts and others pummeling him]

If mtwiscool goes wall papering IRC with promos non stop, sure fine to put him on a timeout there.  I understand that too.

"I also agree that we should be protecting new members and that we need to keep a high standard for the community, however, and you knew it was coming, if we take that stance then a LOT of the content of the forum needs to be removed and quite a few offers/members need to be removed too."

Does this mean (posted by Martin when he shuttered thread and banned the lad) that we can look forward to more bans of folks and more content removed from vpsBoard?

 

[Munzy]

I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.

Please don't insult all of us with pitch forks, I just explained a point of view. 

 

[HalfEatenPie]

I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.

Ehh...  I expected something like this really.  It's part of the job I guess.  It's why I'm trying to be as transparent as possible and as helpful as possible.  

I will admit certain people do get to me at times, and I do try actively to stop my own biases from getting to me, but I do at times have my moments.  That's when usually someone gives me a good kick in the head (@serverian once got me on the right track haha).  

 

[KuJoe]

Please don't insult all of us with pitch forks, I just explained a point of view.

I was merely pointing out that posting a thread questioning the moderators without all of the facts looks poorly on how some people feel about the staff here. My post had nothing to do with you so I apologize if it came across that way.

 

[MannDude]

I understand that we can't please everyone, and I don't expect that everyone is entirely thrilled with this decision or any decision, for that matter. Just be happy that we can actually have (and do not discourage) this discussion.

 

[KuJoe]

Personally, I think if somebody completely new to the forum saw this thread they would close their tab and never look back.


A simple decision to ban a person who's only contribution to the forum is cross-posting his Facebook status updates, turned into a 2 page public thread questioning the competency of the staff here and effectively calling them Nazis for not posting an announcement documenting how the ban was determined.

 

[HalfEatenPie]

Thanks for the background @HalfEatenPie.

The IRC ban wasn't about this lad, rather it was banning a whole popular low-cost network today - Quadranet.  Sorry for the confusion there Pie.

His ban today (mtwiscool) for spamming... essentially.... Did I miss something other than this one thread he posted on today?



"I would say his actual ban was over breaking "Do not spam" and him disregarding the requests of moderators and admins (in addition to being respectful to others input... which I would say if he asked for it and he got it, then at least provide reasons as to why he didn't follow ANY of it). "

Was there something else *today* this lad did?  I've found him to be rather quiet lately.  Perhaps I am not paying attention to vpsB so much lately.

If there existed then some basis for disallowing offers from him I am unclear of why and all.  Martin even said as much prior to the ban, thus my perplexed WTF.  I haven't seen masses of customer complaints, summerhost tendencies or other outright ripping folks off, yet from @mtwiscool.  So, besides being unpopular, I am failing here to see where he tripped and fell today. [prior to, yeah some tough days with his posts and others pummeling him]

If mtwiscool goes wall papering IRC with promos non stop, sure fine to put him on a timeout there.  I understand that too.

"I also agree that we should be protecting new members and that we need to keep a high standard for the community, however, and you knew it was coming, if we take that stance then a LOT of the content of the forum needs to be removed and quite a few offers/members need to be removed too."

Does this mean (posted by Martin when he shuttered thread and banned the lad) that we can look forward to more bans of folks and more content removed from vpsBoard?

Oh yeah.  I believe the IRC Ban was a script mistake.  I believe it was because mtwiscool was using proxies to constantly try and get into the channel.  Once the right admin comes back online it'll be fixed I'm sure  (that's the current detail I have anyways).  It's a simple mistake.

As for his ban, this was a discussion over several days if not weeks, the decision wasn't made in a single day.  So his most recent actions were factored into but in the end his previous actions overwhelmed our decisions.  

I've linked the Suspension of Normal Procedures (labeled Suspension of the Rules on Wikipedia) on my original post because I remembered not everyone's familiar with Parliamentary Procedure.  It's basically the suspension of the rules temporarily for a single ruling when agreed upon by quorum and requires a 2/3 majority in order to proceed.  While it wasn't formally required I believed it was called for due to how infrequent we actually ban people (except for spam bots and obvious spammers of course).  

So basically, if you need hard quoting.  "Do not spam." "Please be respectful and courteous of others input and opinions."  "Please respect the decision of moderators and admins."  under the vpsBoard Guidelines.  With multiple requests from the Moderators (which were, in our opinion and perspective, ignored)

Does this mean (posted by Martin when he shuttered thread and banned the lad) that we can look forward to more bans of folks and more content removed from vpsBoard?

What Martin was saying is exactly what you're addressing.  Martin was the individual who brought up the statement "Well if we ban him for this, what stops us from banning others?  To what extent?" during our internal discussions.  Therefore I requested the suspension of normal procedures which required a majority agreement.  With the majority agreement to suspend the rules temporarily, we agreed to remove Matthew from the community.  I personally follow the Parliamentary Procedure and the regulations to heart, and I believe it's a very important method to solving problems and addressing concerns.  While our own discussions weren't strictly following the guidelines set by Robert's Rule of Order (because after all, it was only three people), I did believe this situation called for Suspension of Normal Procedures.  

Basically what I'm saying is, for actual major cases like this where it's an individual we all know, we took proper precautions loosely following Robert's Rule of Order (and by loosely I mean I requested the suspension of Normal Procedures).  I would personally trust MannDude and Martin with my life, and I personally believe their heads are on right.  Now as for myself, well...  I hope I have my own head on right too!  

 

[drmike]

I do like how the first step was handing out pitchforks and forming a mob against the moderators before actually contacting them to get the full story. It goes to show how little faith some people here have in our moderating staff.

What I saw was something that made no sense as posted in my last comment.  @mtwiscool was legit to post (absent some forthcoming example of where the kid went off the rails today somehow else), but now is not being allowed to post / participate.  That just conflicts with itself.

Plus therein I saw the bad omen, a line crossed where moderation was doing a 180 degree turn, with more unclear action resulting in bans and pulled content forthcoming.

Faith is complicated word.  Forming a mob?  Hardly.  Rather noting the strange turn of face  and change of course with the site.

I don't think disagreement is some form of treason or vileness.   Such is necessary to have functioning communities.  Honestly, I brought this up because it's murky at best and others have sent me comments, pointed to the ban, IRC, etc... -- folks who mostly lurk and don't participate...

Typically I defend this site and all, but I am not a moderator and it did / does seem uncharcteristically off behavior for vpsB.

Big picture, what is the hazard of having someone like mtwiscool here?  He's annoying at times, check.  He needs to be taught to properly market and edit his docs, check.  Same could be said of most folks here.

 

[HalfEatenPie]

Personally, I think if somebody completely new to the forum saw this thread they would close their tab and never look back.


A simple decision to ban a person who's only contribution to the forum is cross-posting his Facebook status updates, turned into a 2 page public thread questioning the competency of the staff here and effectively calling them Nazis for not posting an announcement documenting how the ban was determined.

It's part of community trust, and I guess LEB/LET really crippled that badly.  Hopefully they can read into it all and get a decent understanding, but I agree.  

 

[KuJoe]

I guess I'm just old school. Oh well.

 

[MannDude]

I was merely pointing out that posting a thread questioning the moderators without all of the facts looks poorly on how some people feel about the staff here. My post had nothing to do with you so I apologize if it came across that way.

Comically, if we did anything to this thread those who lurk but never contribute to the forum would have a hay-day complaining about censorship.

I'd say the biggest turn off to new visitors would be seeing the quality of some past posts made... I'm happy to report that although vpsBoard is considerably slower and not nearly as active as LET or WHT, that overall, we generally have a much higher quality (active) member base.

 

[drmike]

Comically, if we did anything to this thread those who lurk but never contribute to the forum would have a hay-day complaining about censorship.

I'd say the biggest turn off to new visitors would be seeing the quality of some past posts made... I'm happy to report that although vpsBoard is considerably slower and not nearly as active as LET or WHT, that overall, we generally have a much higher quality (active) member base.

You know I gave you and the moderators hell on this because of the LE* history mainly and the games that continue to get played over there.  Little things like this are babysteps towards more swift and ugly actions. A number of us have found ourself on the wrong side of the ban hammer for being unpopular or poking the beast in the eyes.

Powers once realized are hard not just to abuse at will and random [like handing out bans or rummaging data].  I don't want to see this community head that way. 

I am a fan of this stuff being worked out in public always, and not by some mob rule.  Too easy to just bulldoze folks, rightly or wrongly.  This is a community afterall.

I'd ask the moderators issuing the ban to put some time to it and establish a ban level so we aren't on one strike terror with folks.  Everyone deserves a second chance... Much beyond three and too damn bad though

That's all for me tonight, I am off to bed.  Tomorrow I turn three and start pre-school, you smarmy fuck @lbft.

 

[HalfEatenPie]

I'd ask the moderators issuing the ban to put some time to it and establish a ban level so we aren't on one strike terror with folks. 

To be perfectly honest, I gave Matthew warnings over this.  In addition, being a reasonable human being, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't ban someone out of the blue without giving them a prior warning as to what they're doing wrong.  Handing out unwarranted bans is just counter-productive to what we're trying to maintain... which is a community.  

This of course excludes spam bots.  Because screw spam bots.  

 

[Kayaba Akihiko]

I don't really know why people are bitching about him getting banned, it's not like anyone actually wants him to continue to ruin the forum's reputation.

HEF Could just have chalked it off to "I have decided to not be as tolerant as I used to be in the past" Or just say that it was a decision that took him awhile to make.

I'm also surprised that Mann and Martin actually allowed this thread, I was expecting a middle finger to the face and/or just a "If you don't like it, leave."

 

[MannDude]

I'm also surprised that Mann and Martin actually allowed this thread, I was expecting a middle finger to the face and/or just a "If you don't like it, leave."

This thread doesn't bother me, and it's only 8:12AM in Martin's locale so he may not be awake yet.

 

[MartinD]

It may surprise some people to hear that I was the one not keen on a ban.


It's also, yet again, disheartening to see we have to explain actions, to justify them. There is no reign of terror here.


As for the IRC ban, that was my retarded move. Once again my script let me down and the issued ban was...moronic.


Interesting that we're accused of being influenced by the mob or that Manndude is a pushover and yet here we are, defending actions, based on some people getting their panties in a twist.


One rule for some, another for the rest. Pretty sure I brought that up earlier, too. Ironic.

 

[wlanboy]

I wrote quite a little bit of text but deleted it because I would have add water to the mills of ban-o-matic.

We should ban people because they did really bad things to the community.

Offering not that .....good services should not be worth the hassle.

How should new memebers find out about bad offers?

Well comments and reviews.

If they then buy shit .. well, at least then they learnd that thing about not buying out of the price alone.

If we really would ban people right out of not so good service - hey I would ban about 50 people.

That alone (definition of good services) should show how dumb that move would be.

If someone posts the same offer again and again -> delete thread and warn him.

If someone posts shit offers -> comments and reviews will care about this.

So please calm down and let the crew do their job. It's their place and their rules - not yours.

 

[DomainBop]

This of course excludes spam bots.  Because screw spam bots.  

I don't think this thread is an appropriate place for you to be wishing death upon the low end segment of the VPS market.  Did you ever stop to think that if those spambots suddenly disappeared demand for cheap VPS's would drop off a cliff and dozens of providers would deadpool and their owners would be forced to return to their former jobs as Kohl's stockboys?

 

[Francisco]

But seriously. You all need to calm your tits a bit here.

I know a good chunk of us came from LE* where motives are, more often than not, questionable. I'm pretty happy

with how VPSB has handled many cases, even some long drawn out wind bag threads. To date they've done nothing

to burn our trust in over a year now so I think it's time to start giving them the benefit of the doubt.

If anything, Curtis & co have been pretty reasonable about things and have asked even the biggest windbags

to try to change their tone a bit and be solid contributors to the community. It usually doesn't work but

that's a fault of that individual, not of anything the mods have done.

As for the dude that got shit canned, he's iffy with a strong lean towards fraud. Did you guys ever see

his WHT threads? They drove even the most humble & good folk up the wall and out of the thread. I was

99.99% sure the dude was simply on there to troll people and was put up on a bet to do so.

---- Offtopic ----

@Munzy - I'll keep this short so things don't derail. @Aldryic has to be an ass because up until BuyVM was

started, I had a bad habit of giving way too much service away or was way too gullable and listened to every

sob story, even the hilarious ones that would be like "Hey I just bought an XBOX 360 so I can't pay this month",

etc. He's never been one to mix his words or to keep his opinion to himself when he sees real shitheads around

the communities he follows. He's (perma?)banned from LET for instructing GVH_Jon on the best way to slice open

his wrists to make sure there wasn't a chance he'd try to use the same bullshit lie to get out of the frying pans.

Support was hit & miss at the start of the year and near offensive at times early last year. We've had to do some

fairly big overhauls to our staffing and training to get get things to where they are now. Things are going well

enough at this point that we're pretty confident we'll be rolling full management in a couple weeks or so.

Francisco