amuck-landowner

Cyber-libel and Criminal Defamation

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GoodHosting

New Member
Hello VPSBoard,

 

Today I am writing to you as the victim and recent target of criminal defamation of character.  Cyber-libel is a growing issue, a sure sign of the "ugly" side of the internet that continues to rear its' head to the light of day. Most recently, GoodHosting.co has come under fire from many community members of a site called "LowEndTalk".  I'm sure members of this community are already quite aware of such a community's existence, and both the good and bad points of such a community; which are not the current topic of discussion.

 

I am under the opinion that based on best practices and business ethics we have undertaken our jobs as an Online Service Provider to the fullest of our abilities; and offer an on-par service that can hardly be compared with others. Currently, the hosting [ Internet Service Provider ] of this service could not be reached, as their public servers are protected by a pass-through network known as "CloudFlare"; which has its' own protections and due process in which we must follow to send a notice of removal forward.

 

We are leaving this discussion open to public opinion before proceeding with legal action, as certain "threads" on this community website are currently infringing on the reputations of our staff [ myself ] in a way in which is considered criminal by the Government of Canada.  We have began this process under good faith, and hope to have a response shortly. The window for such as response, as set forth by the Government of Canada and regulations on "Cyber-libel" is only one weeks time. If we have not heard back from the provider, or an affiliate of the provider in regards to the removal of the infringing content, we will be force to bring this injustice to the Supreme Court of Canada to hear in which jurisdiction this court case will play out in.

 



 

As you know we had been removed from this community, and can no longer take part in discussions posted therein.  We have been accused to be involved with and facilitating SCAM operations by the staff members of this community.  Most recently however, our removal was made permanent through an action of one of our previous providers.

 

Someone in which we previously had service through, had chosen to forward traffic from their domain to our site, through no prior knowledge or consent on our side.  We have been removed from the community mentioned for this sole reason, and have not been given any method of regaining our access, even though we have came forth truthfully with all and any information that has been requested during their investigation in this matter.

 

I personally feel as if I am being targeted in this matter, as the same circumstances could have happened to any third part [ and have in the past happened to many ] in which the party has not been treated the same. This shows that we are being unduly targeted, as someone who has been proven to commit acts of fraud has not been removed from this aforementioned community, while we were; when no evidence of fraud has been provided.

 



 

We trust that the community, as well as our loyal and well-served customers, might come forward to voice their opinions on this issue as well; as only the community is able to comment on this situation.
 

MartinD

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
Retired Staff
Not being funny but what has this got to do with vpsboard? What are we and the community over here supposed to do about it?


Frankly, the way in which you conducted yourself over there was hardly that of a professional so coming over here moaning and complaining about it doesn't help you.


It's also worth noting quite a few of us have been around a while. Screaming libel and 'crimincal defamation' is hilarious as we've seen it all before.
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
@GoodHosting,  What happened over there on LE* to you / your company?  Sorry, I am slacking lately.  Busy with life and watching houseplants grow.

Libel is a difficult topic.   Surely, many want to believe I libel the clowns who own that other site... Obviously, claiming libel is a bully tactic some use against whistleblowers and chronic troublemakers....

Guess I understand both sides a bit too well.

Problem with invoking laws enacted in Canada is that said site is not within Canada, nor governed by such.  So no jurisdiction, nor authority to slap them at law. 

Any legal matter would have to be pursued in the United States under their laws and more specifically under the laws of the State of New York.
 
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GoodHosting

New Member
Not being funny but what has this got to do with vpsboard? What are we and the community over here supposed to do about it?


Frankly, the way in which you conducted yourself over there was hardly that of a professional so coming over here moaning and complaining about it doesn't help you.


It's also worth noting quite a few of us have been around a while. Screaming libel and 'crimincal defamation' is hilarious as we've seen it all before.
I only say "Cyber-libel" and "criminal defamation" because that's actually what it's called in our legal code now, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_defamation_law and more specifically the story around this lawsuit: http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/05/06/teacher-helpless-to-stop-web-defamation/

I did post it in Off Topic anyways, not trying to spam up VPSBoard with it; just wondering what people expected to turn out differently from each party.

---

@GoodHosting,  What happened over there on LE* to you / your company?  Sorry, I am slacking lately.  Busy with life and watching houseplants grow.

Libel is a difficult topic.   Surely, many want to believe I libel the clowns who own that other site... Obviously, claiming libel is a bully tactic some use against whistleblowers and chronic troublemakers....

Guess I understand both sides a bit too well.

Problem with invoking laws enacted in Canada is that said site is not within Canada, nor governed by such.  So no jurisdiction, nor authority to slap them at law. 

Any legal matter would have to be pursued in the United States under their laws and more specifically under the laws of the State of New York.
Luckily [ again, see the above court case ] the Canadian government has recently been helping us Canadians exercise our right to protect ourselves against hate speech.

A TL;DR of what happened:

- We were buying servers from LowEND

- LowEND imploded

- We ceased all activity with LowEND

- Some angry kid tried to get LowEND banned, found out they were already fucked, then went after us [ I have proof of this part ]

- Angry kid goes after us, LowEndTalk happily takes the bait [ apparently they've never liked us? ]

- Insanity Ensues

Somewhat later:

- We get unbanned

- Happy family for a day or two

- LowEND's owner points his domain at us

- Angry kid sends photoshopped screenshots to LowEndTalk

- We get banned for LowEND's owner pointing his domain at us

Not sure how we could have prevented the above.
 

GoodHosting

New Member
Anyone serious about attempting to bring libel charges wouldn't post their intentions on a forum.


Just sayin.
As I have been advised by my legal counsel, the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out with the parties involved before going the full mile.  I'd just let to get the situation sorted, and understand [ as I am rather young myself ] what I did wrong in this situation, and how I could have possibly handled it better so that it did not come to this.  I would like to be successful in business some day, and to do that; I will need to learn from my mistakes.

Clearly I did something wrong to lead up to this point, but I cannot find what I could have avoided on my end.  I have no control over LowEND's DNS records, so there's no way I could have stopped him from pointing his domain at me.
 

GoodHosting

New Member
@GoodHosting, can you PM me URL of the thread-brewhaha from over on that site?
Most of it was over tickets / emails / etcetera, where mpkossen has basically told me to "fuck off' at this point.  He continues to claim that he has evidence that I am some Australian kid, but doesn't actually put up any evidence.

I'll PM you the thread that got me seeking legal help though. [ unrelated to my ban. ]
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Well that's an odd thread over on LET.  Definitely legally able to muscle that or at least make enough of a stink that they make it go bye bye.  Ask Kossen to move that thread to Off Topic so it is hidden to public and leave it at that.  Should get it out of search engines and that's your core concern.

Base accusation is time/site down overlap for two people.   That's scant in details.  Way less than I'd ever pipe up about.. The relationship to the Darknet and allegations no doubt are troubling if you have business / adult / real customers. 

Nothing else that links the story up in the toilet bowl?  That's it right?

If you sell to LE* kids, then they probably will be turned on by such and interested in your service.

Believe me, you are far from the first person to regret selling to the lowend and to reget posting over there...
 

DomainBop

Dormant VPSB Pathogen
As I have been advised by my legal counsel, the best way to handle the matter is to try and strife it out with the parties involved before going the full mile.
A. None of the parties involved are here so posting here about the problem will do you about as much good as posting on the MuppetShow forums

B. If your attorney said it was OK to post about a potential legal issue on a public forum then the mofo should be disbarred for giving bad advice.

C. If you actually have an attorney, he should be sending evil libelspewing party A a nastygram telling them to rectify the situation or you'll be hauling their ass into court.  Posting on a public forum about evil party A is about the worst thing you can do if you're contemplating legal action against evil party A.

D. LET's refusal to remove a thread (silkroad) that was started by a 3rd party would likely fall under USC230 protections (the "ISP immunity" clause)...especially since the silkroad allegations were made by a 3rd party who has no relationship to the forum owner LET/CC. If you're planning on filing a libel suit you should go after the socially challenged teenager who posted the silkroad thread.

LowEND's DNS records, so there's no way I could have stopped him from pointing his domain at me.
Minutes after you were banned again from LET today the LowEnd domain was pointed at mpkossen's facebook page by whoever controls the domain.

Any legal matter would have to be pursued in the United States under their laws and more specifically under the laws of the State of New York.
The case could be filed in Canada initially if Goodhosting's lawyer is billing by the hour and trying to rack up some fees,  but even the most incompetent defense attorney wouldn't have any problems in forcing a venue change to NY State. 

Believe me, you are far from the first person to regret selling to the lowend and to reget posting over there...
..and if being banned and not able to post offers anymore on LET/B causes financial hardship to anyone then they seriously need to rethink their business plan.

edited to add:

Currently, the hosting [ Internet Service Provider ] of this service could not be reached, as their public servers are protected by a pass-through network known as "CloudFlare"; which has its' own protections and due process in which we must follow to send a notice of removal forward.
Why not just send the removal request directly to the website's owner and their ISP since you know the site is owned and hosted by ColoCrossing/Velocity Servers instead of wasting your time sending a notice to CloudFlare who will then forward it to the website owner and ISP.  The only time you would send a notice to CloudFlare is if you don't know who is hosting the site or owns the site. 

from cloudflare:

CloudFlare is a pass through network that caches content for a limited time only. We do not provide hosting services for any website. CloudFlare will notify the site owner and, where appropriate, the web hosting provider for the site in question.
In addition, when you submit a removal request to CloudFlare (or many other companies like Google) they will do what my company  has done many times in the past when we have receive removal requests: file a copy of your removal request at ChillingEffects which may then be indexed by search engines.

By submitting a report, you agree to submitted data potentially being released by CloudFlare to third parties, such as Chilling Effects.
 
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Patrick

INIZ.COM
Verified Provider
I believe filling in @blergh's form would help.

Anyways you should now probably look for another market instead of LE* since you're on a permanent ban, I doubt threatening legal action will make this any better and I doubt your legal advisor would tell you to go post on a forum for further advice. 

~Patricia
 
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Dylan

Active Member
Your own posts, including this thread right here, have done far more damage to your reputation than anyone else ever could.
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Well I fail to see what the OP did wrong really.  Maybe some other thread or prior conduct?  The thread seems absolutely baseless over there.   Even beneath my perceived lowly standards of evidence.

I agree with @DomainBop 's post....

One point to pick at:

"LET's refusal to remove a thread (silkroad) that was started by a 3rd party would likely fall under USC230 protections (the "ISP immunity" clause)...especially since the silkroad allegations were made by a 3rd party who has no relationship to the forum owner LET/CC. If you're planning on filing a libel suit you should go after the socially challenged teenager who posted the silkroad thread."

This may prove true, but competent counsel should really be up for a heated argument at-law over that concept.   LET does PLENTY that exceeds the neutral pass through publishing party standards sites like to hide behind.  The place is rather-policed, they edit posts (even when people don't request such), they refile category to Off Topic and to public as matter suits them.  They also actively participate, including moderators, other principals / ownership of parent company, partners, etc.   So they exceed normal "publisher" role passing things freely through software by about 15 miles.  And, their decisions, choices, and voices on matters can logically be inferred to benefit their financial well being (for the parent company, not the decoy site in the middle website).

WHICH IS WHY A PROVIDER SHOULDN'T BE OWNING SUCH A SITE and EVEN BEING A MODERATOR OF SUCH IS A HORRID IDEA.  AKA CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

If you proceed with a suit, tell your legal counsel to file the matter under the concept of joint and severed liability.  Pursue in all matters, by name, all of the corporations involved, plus all their owners and known shareholders in their personal capacity.  It will be a BIG list.

If the "accuser" is a minor, adjoin his legal guardians and any insurer they have (non government insurer).
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
and... back to the main original issue, from over there....

There was Lowendbox.co(?) that folded / went under... Then their is GoodHosting which was inheriting customers freely from such.... Do I have this right?  and concept by some is that both companies are one in the same.. right?

@GoodHosting, no chance the two accounts repping both companies along the way wasn't sharing a common IP address? That's by far and wide the biggest gotcha over there.  Was this brought up anywhere in public or PM?
 

MartinD

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
Retired Staff
Yeah, this isn't LET or the side-show to discuss what's going on there when you get banned.
 
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