"Hack Forums" Hosts

[ComputerTrophy]

What is your stance on hosts born out of Hack Forums, mainly in the VPS hosting field?

Do you instantly think, "nah", or do you think "I'll give them a try since the ones that have been up for more than one year are better quality than I think"?

It's a controversial topic. HF hosts tend to not last three months but those who do thrive, yet they have to endure negative opinions from other communities.

 

[Francisco]

It's a tough comment.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of hackforums hosts that get to LEB die within the first year. There's only 1 host i'm aware of that was born out of there and is still around to this day.

I'll leave his name out of it since he has worked hard to get away from it all.

Francisco

 

[drmike]

Me, I think we should BAN hosts that mix it up on HackForums.  

HF is basically a bunch of criminals and juvenile delinquents.  Sure there is legitimate activity and DIY know-how, but far too much criminality.

Would I buy a house surrounded by a crack house, meth lab and place where they fight dogs to death? No, they make shitty neighbors and impact the community.  They diminish service quality and viability.  Get put on special lists (in physical world militarized police presence, SWAT, etc.).  In virtual world, block lists and risk assessment raised.

Some hosts get mentioned on HF by "customers".  Those hosts I have no issue with it.  Those that run ads though.  Tssk tsk... Do you rent IPs for mass spamming, not enforce DMCA's, allow hostile users?   I mean you must do something or support it since HF is all about the abuse and ToS violations.

 

[wlanboy]

I can't remember anything good that has the origin in hack forums.

You can't stop people from recommending hosts but you can look at how hosts respond to that.

I like the analogy of drmike. Hosts should care about the neighborhood they are creating.

The red line is:

• if they advertise
• if they want such customers

 

[Richard Leik]

Me, I think we should BAN hosts that mix it up on HackForums.  

HF is basically a bunch of criminals and juvenile delinquents.  Sure there is legitimate activity and DIY know-how, but far too much criminality.

Would I buy a house surrounded by a crack house, meth lab and place where they fight dogs to death? No, they make shitty neighbors and impact the community.  They diminish service quality and viability.  Get put on special lists (in physical world militarized police presence, SWAT, etc.).  In virtual world, block lists and risk assessment raised.

Some hosts get mentioned on HF by "customers".  Those hosts I have no issue with it.  Those that run ads though.  Tssk tsk... Do you rent IPs for mass spamming, not enforce DMCA's, allow hostile users?   I mean you must do something or support it since HF is all about the abuse and ToS violations.

This is a good analogy. You have to call into question the ethics of any host that comes out of that forum. From what I've seen the site seems to be a crockpot of illegal activity. 

 

[ComputerTrophy]

Full Disclosure (almost forgot) - InvokeVM, my VPS hosting company, is mainly advertised on Hack Forums. We do get somebody trying to run dos.pl every month or so, but they're suspended (very) quickly. Otherwise, no abuse. The good thing is that we make it very clear that we're onshore. In the four months InvokeVM has been up, we've only seen one outgoing DoS (quickly suspended), of which the person apologised (unexpectedly). MaxMind also works efficiently, making sure all clients use legitimate information.

It's a tough comment.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of hackforums hosts that get to LEB die within the first year. There's only 1 host i'm aware of that was born out of there and is still around to this day.

I'll leave his name out of it since he has worked hard to get away from it all.

Francisco

I believe you're referring to VMBox.Co. Even so, the owner DDoSed me a year back 'to surpress the competition'.

Me, I think we should BAN hosts that mix it up on HackForums.  

HF is basically a bunch of criminals and juvenile delinquents.  Sure there is legitimate activity and DIY know-how, but far too much criminality.

Would I buy a house surrounded by a crack house, meth lab and place where they fight dogs to death? No, they make shitty neighbors and impact the community.  They diminish service quality and viability.  Get put on special lists (in physical world militarized police presence, SWAT, etc.).  In virtual world, block lists and risk assessment raised.

Some hosts get mentioned on HF by "customers".  Those hosts I have no issue with it.  Those that run ads though.  Tssk tsk... Do you rent IPs for mass spamming, not enforce DMCA's, allow hostile users?   I mean you must do something or support it since HF is all about the abuse and ToS violations.

Good analogy. Have you considered the whitehats and casual browsers who don't seem to go there for the hacking? 

I can't remember anything good that has the origin in hack forums.

You can't stop people from recommending hosts but you can look at how hosts respond to that.

I like the analogy of drmike. Hosts should care about the neighborhood they are creating.

The red line is:

• if they advertise
• if they want such customers

Much truth in that. 

This is a good analogy. You have to call into question the ethics of any host that comes out of that forum. From what I've seen the site seems to be a crockpot of illegal activity. 

Mhm. It's a good source of legitimate clients, but we have to monitor closely for abuse.

 

[MartinD]

You cannot deny the fact that the majority of people from HF are not 'legitimate'. Unfortunately, shit sticks... so if you have any association with it you're going to be working had to get rid of that smell.

 

[RiotSecurity]

What is your stance on hosts born out of Hack Forums, mainly in the VPS hosting field?

Do you instantly think, "nah", or do you think "I'll give them a try since the ones that have been up for more than one year are better quality than I think"?

It's a controversial topic. HF hosts tend to not last three months but those who do thrive, yet they have to endure negative opinions from other communities.

As long as they don't have shady business practices (like most) then I don't care.

 

[WelltodoInformalCattle]

As a customer, I wouldn't even consider them. I'm fairly picky so I'm not sure if others do the same thing. I don't only care about stability and the price but also who the host used to be in bed with.

Are there any HF success stories?

 

[RiotSecurity]

As a customer, I wouldn't even consider them. I'm fairly picky so I'm not sure if others do the same thing. I don't only care about stability and the price but also who the host used to be in bed with.

Are there any HF success stories?

Why be that guy whom would just dislike due to marketing places, it's just like saying "I'll never use your company because you advertise on lowendbox which is affiliated with colocrossing"

 

[texteditor]

Why be that guy whom would just dislike due to marketing places, it's just like saying "I'll never use your company because you advertise on lowendbox which is affiliated with colocrossing"

I do this

 

[tchen]

There's also the issue of trust. If I'm going to place proprietary code somewhere, I'd like to be able to trust the host to take VM/container security seriously. And while you might be the whitest white hat in the bunch, guilt by association is a bad mark to shake. As an active member, there's also the high chance you might hire another member from there to do support - adding to the worry.


That's not to say I wouldn't buy from a HF host, but I'd likely use it as a honeypot or some lowsec remote monitoring station.

 

[ComputerTrophy]

There's also the issue of trust. If I'm going to place proprietary code somewhere, I'd like to be able to trust the host to take VM/container security seriously. And while you might be the whitest white hat in the bunch, guilt by association is a bad mark to shake. As an active member, there's also the high chance you might hire another member from there to do support - adding to the worry.


That's not to say I wouldn't buy from a HF host, but I'd likely use it as a honeypot or some lowsec monitoring station.

Tip: Request a trial and place a honeypot there. You'll see 'vzctl' as the admin's process on OpenVZ.

If you're smart, never hire people from anywhere except from reputable industry focused communities. You also need to make sure you have their ID on hand. God knows what random people wanting money can do.

 

[Magiobiwan]

If the HOST advertises themselves on HF, or is active there and up to no good, then I wouldn't consider them. If random HF users recommend them, I don't care too much, unless there are a LOT of people who recommend them for things like spam, Torrents, etc. Just because one person who isn't staff mentions them there won't make me choose not to use them.

 

[RiotSecurity]

If the HOST advertises themselves on HF, or is active there and up to no good, then I wouldn't consider them. If random HF users recommend them, I don't care too much, unless there are a LOT of people who recommend them for things like spam, Torrents, etc. Just because one person who isn't staff mentions them there won't make me choose not to use them.

What's wrong with advertising on HF? Personally I see it's a big community, with a dedicated section to it and even though its name is hackforums, typically you won't find tons of abusers ordering, etc.

This is what bugs me, you thin just because of the content and name that all companies on hf, etc. are bad.

 

[drmike]

This is what bugs me, you thin just because of the content and name that all companies on hf, etc. are bad.

Come on now, let's be honest.  Hack forums.   Pretty clear what the focus and interest is.  It's isn't the Computer DIY network... or something less malicious --- it's hacking.

White hats, sure there are some over there.  But even most white hats are running afoul of laws and subjecting you to government, raids, etc. by association.  Every white hat I've ever know has plenty of non-white behavior, they just do their public reputation and covering it up better.

FYI: I support whistleblowers, tinkers and even hacking per se.   But the hacking in limited doses and in permission granted style environments.

HF is really what it is.  It's a pit of cr@p behavior.   People are selling stolen goods in open air market.   Does that happen in reality? To less severe degree. Stolen PayPal account vs. DVD copy.

Yeah, I support the hacker culture and always have so don't think I am some blowhard.

 

[ComputerTrophy]

Come on now, let's be honest.  Hack forums.   Pretty clear what the focus and interest is.  It's isn't the Computer DIY network... or something less malicious --- it's hacking.

White hats, sure there are some over there.  But even most white hats are running afoul of laws and subjecting you to government, raids, etc. by association.  Every white hat I've ever know has plenty of non-white behavior, they just do their public reputation and covering it up better.

FYI: I support whistleblowers, tinkers and even hacking per se.   But the hacking in limited doses and in permission granted style environments.

HF is really what it is.  It's a pit of cr@p behavior.   People are selling stolen goods in open air market.   Does that happen in reality? To less severe degree. Stolen PayPal account vs. DVD copy.

Yeah, I support the hacker culture and always have so don't think I am some blowhard.

Just to clear up common misconceptions about HF, here's Hack Forums in a nutshell: 5% people who are actually proficient at hacking; 50% people adults who don't go there for 'HACK' forums but go there 'for the lulz', just to hang out due to their forum addiction; 25% kids who are immature and obsessed with 'SWAT'ing' , 'DDoS' and 'doxing'; 30% people who use the marketplace.

Needless to say, we'd very much like that 25% gone, but we can't do anything.

Omniscient has actually cracked down on carding and fraud; totally banned it and those associated with it. He hosts Hack Forums in the United States as well, showing his intent to prevent stuff which should stay in deep-web sites.

But yes, there is a high level of immaturity on HF, and most of the active members there who sell 'legitimate' hosting have a bad history.

 

[RiotSecurity]

Come on now, let's be honest.  Hack forums.   Pretty clear what the focus and interest is.  It's isn't the Computer DIY network... or something less malicious --- it's hacking.

White hats, sure there are some over there.  But even most white hats are running afoul of laws and subjecting you to government, raids, etc. by association.  Every white hat I've ever know has plenty of non-white behavior, they just do their public reputation and covering it up better.

FYI: I support whistleblowers, tinkers and even hacking per se.   But the hacking in limited doses and in permission granted style environments.

HF is really what it is.  It's a pit of cr@p behavior.   People are selling stolen goods in open air market.   Does that happen in reality? To less severe degree. Stolen PayPal account vs. DVD copy.

Yeah, I support the hacker culture and always have so don't think I am some blowhard.

If you actually have browsed hackforums, you will see that its 99% non-hacking, it's more a marketplace and gaming due to the fact HF is hosted onshore, so the owner Omni (Jesse) censors almost-everything hacking related "unethical" hacking.

Therefore the only thing that goes on there is ethical.

 

[mikho]

I once signed up on HF to see what it was all about, after I clicked the confirmation link I was IP-banned.


So I have no experience regarding that forum.

 

[Kakashi]

You can't be serious about the well being of your company if you advertise/promote on sites like that. Red Flag all the way.