If a client's VPS is suspended, do you still send them an invoice for next month?
- Thread starter Dillybob
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Standard procedure.
Even in the suspended state it's consuming resources on the server (storage) and ideally the provider is 'reserving' resources for the container awaiting for it to be reactivated by payment (assuming it's suspended for non-payment). Say, if your VPS is suspended and your provider has a hard limit of 100 VPSes per node your container is effectively using a slot on the node and preventing them from selling that slot to someone else who'd actually use it until you're either terminated for non-payment or take two minutes to do a cancellation request properly.
Why is it suspended? If you don't have any intention of renewing it then it'd be a good idea to just cancel it. Non-payment doesn't equal cancellation and sometimes it may take a billing cycle, two or three for your abandoned container to be terminated. The invoices generated before that time I believe should still be due in my opinion.
EDIT: Though it's not like you'll actually ever be taken to collections over a few dollars. More of a hassle than it's worth to pursue from a provider's standpoint, though I do believe the invoice generation on suspended services is a normal feature of WHMCS.
Even in the suspended state it's consuming resources on the server (storage) and ideally the provider is 'reserving' resources for the container awaiting for it to be reactivated by payment (assuming it's suspended for non-payment). Say, if your VPS is suspended and your provider has a hard limit of 100 VPSes per node your container is effectively using a slot on the node and preventing them from selling that slot to someone else who'd actually use it until you're either terminated for non-payment or take two minutes to do a cancellation request properly.
Why is it suspended? If you don't have any intention of renewing it then it'd be a good idea to just cancel it. Non-payment doesn't equal cancellation and sometimes it may take a billing cycle, two or three for your abandoned container to be terminated. The invoices generated before that time I believe should still be due in my opinion.
EDIT: Though it's not like you'll actually ever be taken to collections over a few dollars. More of a hassle than it's worth to pursue from a provider's standpoint, though I do believe the invoice generation on suspended services is a normal feature of WHMCS.
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Fair Enough. I just thought it was silly they would send me an invoice for it when it's suspended for 'Abuse'.
I used LOIC and some OSWASP Http flood tools to test some udp flood / nginx limiting rules / iptables. It was a 75 cent box, and I did some bad stuff to it so they had every right to suspend me. I just found it odd even after that they would want me back on their servers LOL. (Sadly, learning about how iptables work, I found out that udp flooding is essentially unstoppable at the software level firewall and that iptables limit/drop rules barely have an effect and that the data has to go somewhere). So I posted my question here: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/91548/how-to-mitigate-udp-flood-attacks on how to mitigate udp flood attacks and basically your upstream provider needs to mess with their firewall (Server admin) and you can do only so much at the firewall software level.
I'm sure you already know about that, but that's why I used CVPS and their box to test it because I wanted to learn how it works and the best way to mitigate them. I remember seeing 44MB/s on 'iftop' (Im not sure if that's a bad flood or not lol), but I think I used less than 10gb of bandwidth (the box came with 500gb). I am just going to end up buying a DDOS protected ip from BUYVM and tunnel it to the main server (most likely).
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Also to note, I find it absolutely hilarious how anyone would want to use them because when I did my LOIC flooding with udp, I would literally leave it on for 5 seconds and send thousands of udp flooding packets. And your host would suspend you for that? That speaks volumes about how easy it would be for some other person who has 10000x more knowledge than me, to udp flood my box and I would get suspended faster than you could say 'GREENVALUEHOST'.
In other words, a ddos/filtered protected ip is a must nowadays I assume.
So lesson learned.. always get a ddos protected ip, and tunnel that fucker. And have the best iptables for limiting you can and drop everything except for needed ports. That's what I'm planning to do in the future anyways.
In other words, a ddos/filtered protected ip is a must nowadays I assume.
So lesson learned.. always get a ddos protected ip, and tunnel that fucker. And have the best iptables for limiting you can and drop everything except for needed ports. That's what I'm planning to do in the future anyways.
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DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
Fixed that for you by adding an extra 0 for accuracy because he said the provider was CVPS.
WHMCS doesn't know why it's suspended and thus it should generate an invoice because the client may wish to continue using the VPS. We have clients who use up all of their bandwidth for the month within a few days, then get suspended, and still pay their invoice weeks later so they can use up their bandwidth again next month.
There is not a chance in hell I would give CVPS another penny.
Plus, I'm curious why a provider would still send a client an invoice if their box is suspended. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, especially, when the client was suspended for 'Abuse'. Why would a provider want him back on their node? Doesn't make any sense. Regardless if it's a WHMCS problem, a provider should know and take care of it should they not?
I still have not heard one good reason why a host would send an invoice to a client's vps that was shut down for 'abuse'. Unless, a provider is just wanting to try to get as much money as possible and then re-suspend them again? Wouldn't that go against the ethical standards of running a business?
Logically speaking, if I was a provider (which i'll never be, just a hypothetical). If I suspended a client for abuse, I would not welcome them back on any node as they could be potentially dangerous. But in this case, they send me an invoice? Red Flag imo. As I said, it doesn't make any sense. Generously curious not trying to start drama.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
The 75 cent boxes are a gas.
Seriously, what are these companies thinking such is going to be used for? It's nearly bad as such calling it free VPS - as much of a deterrent and attempt to find legit customers.
Yes, some brands sell cheap 64MB, 96MB, etc. but yeah... Most are crap magnets and horror as a result of these sorts of plans.
And @Dillybob, why the freaking abuse pal?
Seriously, what are these companies thinking such is going to be used for? It's nearly bad as such calling it free VPS - as much of a deterrent and attempt to find legit customers.
Yes, some brands sell cheap 64MB, 96MB, etc. but yeah... Most are crap magnets and horror as a result of these sorts of plans.
And @Dillybob, why the freaking abuse pal?
I used it to test iptables against LOIC's udp flooding tool and other stuff. (Which iptables basically does nothing against udp flood, you can drop all packets but it still hits the server
) I also created this folder with a bunch of beautiful install scripts and linux functions that I wrote that is available to me before I go live 
I pretty much used it as a sandbox server. So I understand the abuse part, but I don't understand why I would get invoiced for next month... Why the fuck would they want me back?
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
If they suspended for abuse you would think that would stop invoices and boot your marketing list. I am unsure how WHMCS works... but if it doesn't tie these things, then more dev needed. Abuse happens a ton.
Have fun and enjoy your lifetime of free complimentary CVPS email spams.
Then you aren't reading any replies. I gave you an extremely good reason. How does WHMCS/Blesta/HostBill/etc... know you were suspended for abuse? Do you think providers generate invoices by hand?
Plus just because abuse has happened doesn't mean it was intentional.
I'm sure many customers would be mad if they got terminated the moment their server was compromised, rather than it being suspended and given a chance to say "wasn't me", look into it and solve the problem.
I'm sure many customers would be mad if they got terminated the moment their server was compromised, rather than it being suspended and given a chance to say "wasn't me", look into it and solve the problem.
But why would WHMCS do it in the first-place, and shouldn't the host have control and know who's being invoiced for what and when?
I understand it might be an automatic thing that WHMCS does, but I don't want to sound disrespectful but that cannot be used as an excuse. Just my 2 cents.
Well, I think the suspension status is fine and you're right client's would get mad if they got terminated. But I'm talking about after that point, when the next billing month comes and they still have a suspended status, why invoice them when both parties aren't even in agreement which each other or on good grounds?
Shouldn't an invoice be sent when you're on good grounds with a customer and are confident that they will pay?
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GIANT_CRAB
New Member
Yeah, that's why hosts should switch to Blesta, amirite? hue hue
Havn't actually heard of this before. Is it going to surpass WHMCS? Their site looks promising, I'll look more into it.
Edit: Just tested their admin panel, blah.. I hate how we cannot click on the menu's to activate them and they are activated on onmouseover events.. the fuck? LOL.
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kcaj
New Member
This is a silly feature that only one person in the solar system cares about.
If a virtual machine is suspended for abuse / other terms of service violation, but hasn't yet been terminated yet, that implies that the client still has a chance to resolve the issue (and yes, this is 100% your fault since you violated the terms of service by mounting a packet flood attack against their network) with the provider since the data is intact. Since this resolution is possible, and since the provider presumably hasn't set the service to terminate after X days (which is possible in WHMCS AFAIK), why should an invoice not be generated? Maybe the invoice will remind the client to resolve the outstanding issue.
If and when the provider decided that the client is not wanted "back on their servers LOL" then they should proceed to terminate the VM and release any allocated resources. At this point no further invoices should be generated; most hosting billing systems, including WHMCS, do not bill for terminated services.
Bottom line though, the only people who would "benefit" from this are people who abuse their services and that the provider finds undesirable in general. Do you really think the provider cares about these kids complaining when they get an invoice? Especially when all they have to do is login and request to have the service cancelled. Provider has more important things to do.
It'd also add undesirable complexity, since you'd need to be careful to distinguish between different kinds of suspensions, making it much harder to "know who's being invoiced for what and when". I can see this being a source of confusion in some circumstances when the provider intended to have the service unsuspended after some amount of time.
I'm also not aware of any providers, even those with custom billing systems and including larger providers, who do this (some providers don't generate an invoice until you opt to renew the service, but they would still send billing due date reminders, which is basically the same thing in this context).
If a virtual machine is suspended for abuse / other terms of service violation, but hasn't yet been terminated yet, that implies that the client still has a chance to resolve the issue (and yes, this is 100% your fault since you violated the terms of service by mounting a packet flood attack against their network) with the provider since the data is intact. Since this resolution is possible, and since the provider presumably hasn't set the service to terminate after X days (which is possible in WHMCS AFAIK), why should an invoice not be generated? Maybe the invoice will remind the client to resolve the outstanding issue.
If and when the provider decided that the client is not wanted "back on their servers LOL" then they should proceed to terminate the VM and release any allocated resources. At this point no further invoices should be generated; most hosting billing systems, including WHMCS, do not bill for terminated services.
Bottom line though, the only people who would "benefit" from this are people who abuse their services and that the provider finds undesirable in general. Do you really think the provider cares about these kids complaining when they get an invoice? Especially when all they have to do is login and request to have the service cancelled. Provider has more important things to do.
It'd also add undesirable complexity, since you'd need to be careful to distinguish between different kinds of suspensions, making it much harder to "know who's being invoiced for what and when". I can see this being a source of confusion in some circumstances when the provider intended to have the service unsuspended after some amount of time.
I'm also not aware of any providers, even those with custom billing systems and including larger providers, who do this (some providers don't generate an invoice until you opt to renew the service, but they would still send billing due date reminders, which is basically the same thing in this context).
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Bingo. That's how it's supposed to be!
Don't be fooled or mislead by WHMCS or other billing systems that do it wrong and don't let provides use it as an excuse. WHMCS worst of the billing industry video will be made about this if I can gather proof that the system does send automated invoices on suspended vps's. I need screenshots from a provider of the setting if it's optional/etc. Please pm me, thanks.
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