Incero Optimizes Routes and Gets Chatty About it on Twitter

Discussion in 'The Pub (Off topic discussion)' started by drmike, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. drmike

    drmike 100% Tier-1 Gogent

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  2. HalfEatenPie

    HalfEatenPie The Irrational One Retired Staff

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    I love this.  And I'll explain why.


    Working on servers in Asia, I've had some of the worst routes setup.  Because of the fractured nature of the Asian internet, it's not too uncommon when I get routed from Korea to LAX to Hong Kong (or Singapore).  Recently (in the past few weeks...), I've been going through Hong Kong server providers and VPS providers and my constant complaint has been about the route optimization and latency.  For a while, SoftLayer Hong Kong was routing one of my IPs through LAX.  Right now it's still not perfect because I'm getting routed through Japan then to Hong Kong (my average latency is around 30-40 ms, whereas right now routed through Japan its 80 ms.  Before when it was routed through LAX, yeah....  don't ask).  


    I think everyone needs something like this.  What Incero has done is absolutely phenomenal.  They are doing everything in their capacity to make sure you have some of the best routes available for your server.  Unfortunately, IP routing is a two-way street.  ISPs and bandwidth providers should also be focusing on optimizing their routes so that everyone is happy.  Not just Incero doing all the leg work.  I'm incredibly annoyed with a fair amount of providers in Asia right now that this absolutely just made my day.  Kudos to you Incero.  Kudos.  My colocated server in Dallas with you guys is really excited to get used to this.  


    I'm really really pumped for this.  Say what you want about Incero, but they always have a gold star in my books.  
     
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  3. drmike

    drmike 100% Tier-1 Gogent

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    My understanding is the route optimization is live in Dallas and Seattle is next...


    Clearly they have no control over reverse path.  Wish more folks proactively and automated optimized.   I've spent lots of cycles over the years requesting manual cleanups of insane routes in different DCs... ideally a system like this would spot the mess (like packets flowing from US to EU and back again).
     
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  4. zafouhar

    zafouhar Member

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  5. mikeyur

    mikeyur New Member Verified Provider

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    I wish more hosts were like Incero. My first and best colo experience so far, just about to pass a year with them. The heavy amount of GOOD automation is refreshing, I haven't had to issue a service-related ticket once - the panel/customer portal is awesome, has every big feature you'd ever want.


    Might be time to shift my box with another host in LA to Dallas, as the LA location is no longer a requirement.. will have to watch for some promos as they open up the new Dallas DC :p
     
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  6. HalfEatenPie

    HalfEatenPie The Irrational One Retired Staff

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    They gave the bot a little bit of character ;)  Nothing wrong with that.

    Yeah from what I've heard, Dallas is what they're working on right now.  It'll soon be deployed to Seattle as well (guess where my next colocation will be then?).  


    But seriously.  I'm really happy with how this turned out.  I've spent the last few weeks contacting different dedicated and cloud service providers about routing so this definitely helped heal a very sore spot for me.  What I really like about all this is that while many datacenters and providers fix problems reactively, Incero and a very select few providers are very proactive in their approach to problems.  They solve them before they actually ever become a problem.  I remember a year or two ago, Incero replaced one of Catalyst's failing hard drive.  Before any problems happened, before any data loss, just... before we ever had to call it in or ask them to do anything.  They already took care of it miles before it was a problem. 


    Seriously, love the work these guys do.  
     
  7. zafouhar

    zafouhar Member

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    Does the bot ever sleep? :p
     
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  8. Hxxx

    Hxxx Active Member

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    Seems like a lot of spam in that twitter channel. lol sorry.
     
  9. TheLinuxBug

    TheLinuxBug New Member

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    You do realize that there are a lot of networks that do optimization out there constantly just like Incero is doing, they just don't have a bot announce it to a twitter channel?  For example, Internat/PNAP does constant route optimizations in the same manor.  Any good network is constantly doing route optimizations and is looking for the best possible route at any given point, so this isn't something new, just a new way to attract attention on social media it seems.


    Don't get me wrong, it is probably pretty cool to watch the bot show you the optimizations it has made for their network, the novelty is defiantly there, just don't go and think Incero is the only one who optimizes their network.


    Cheers!
     
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  10. HalfEatenPie

    HalfEatenPie The Irrational One Retired Staff

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    Oh yeah I'm not saying Incero's the only one.  However, they're making apparent something that isn't commonly announced.  This is something what many people consider good networks need, such as SoftLayer Hong Kong.  
     
  11. TheLinuxBug

    TheLinuxBug New Member

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    I would like to agree, but if you knew the vast number of changes that are likely made over an hours time in a network like SoftLayers you would realize why they don't do something like that.  Twitter would be getting spammed almost every minute or less in some cases on these larger networks.  While its neat to see, you need to think about the implications for a network larger than Incero's which may handle their own peering, cross connects and have a global network, not just a network in a few locations.   My example given, Internap, has POPs all over the country, not just in a few datacenters, so there would likely be many times the network changes made on their network than are being made in Incero's single location.


    Again, this is a cool idea, just not sure how feasible it is for larger networks to do something similar.


    One thing I do know, almost all 'good' network providers allow you the ability to ticket and request route changes to help you gain better connectivity, which is really what you need from a network provider, not just to see what routes they have detected are bad and that they have routed around.  As far as  Incero goes they do run a decent network and doing something like this does help to give them good publicity, but they are not the only ones working to keep their network route optimized.


    my 2 cents.


    Cheers!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015
  12. Hxxx

    Hxxx Active Member

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    Twitter would need to dedicated a couple of dedis to receive the spam :D
     
  13. DomainBop

    DomainBop Dormant VPSB Pathogen

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    Noction IRP is an auto routing optimization tool used by SeFlow, LiquidWeb, Hivelocity, WiredTree, PsychzNetworks, all UK2 group hosts, Hostwinds, Enzu, Steadfast, CacheFly, and many others 


    tl;dr optimization is definitely not anything new but I will admit that spamming Twitter  with their autobot (the mention of Twitter posting rate limits...) is unique and sets them apart from the other networks who use auto route optimization
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015
  14. drmike

    drmike 100% Tier-1 Gogent

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    Is Twitter anything else, really? :)  Endless stream of corporate promotions and self promotion.  LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME. SQUAWK!


    No worries though, Twitter has rate limiting for posting Uzi mode.  


    It is my understanding that this optimization being done by Incero is their own IP, built by them.  
     
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  15. Hxxx

    Hxxx Active Member

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    Depends on who you follow :)
     
  16. DomainBop

    DomainBop Dormant VPSB Pathogen

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    Softlayer has done auto route optimizations since, like OMG forever.  I don't know what they're using in Asia (but I'd be shocked if they weren't using auto optimization there because everybody who operates a network on their scale uses some sort of auto route optimization) but in their US data centers  they signed a couple of contracts several years ago with InterNAP  (5 yr/$40 million and 5 yr/$16 million contract) to use InterNAP's proprietary (and patented) MIRO technology (Managed Internet Route Optimizer)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015
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  17. HalfEatenPie

    HalfEatenPie The Irrational One Retired Staff

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    Well yeah I never said SoftLayer announcing it over Twitter would have been a good choice.  Neither did I actually state that Incero was the only company to ever do this.  All I was stating was that it's something a fair amount of people didn't know about and Incero's twitter approach with this was kind of a cheeky way of getting it out there.  Like I said before, I contacted SoftLayer and was able to request route changes to help me gain better connectivity.  But what I'm stating is that for/to certain routes, I would have expected a company like SoftLayer to have some kind of an automated system to be able to optimize the routes.  Some other companies do have automated optimized routes, however Incero's approach to this (by releasing the updates via Twitter) is something that's currently unique to them and fairly hilarious in my opinion.  

    Yeah honestly my opinion is that the parameter they have set for the auto-optimization software they use may have either missed some routes or maybe they just need to adjust them (the parameters).  
     
  18. gordonrp

    gordonrp New Member Verified Provider

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    Thanks for all the feedback guys, we appreciate the kind words and as always look forward to further improving our services. Obviously the twitter is just a bit of fun, and attempt at transparency (and we did have to scale it back to only post optimizations over 40ms, as Twitter limits were hit in the first few hours the other day). 
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015
  19. DomainBop

    DomainBop Dormant VPSB Pathogen

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    No auto optimization tool is going to completely solve all problems and eliminate the need for occasional manual optimization...especially in Asia where the main problem is usually infrastructure related (specifically to get from country A to B you usually need to detour though Country C, and sometimes countries C/D/E to get where you're going, and international routing is unlikely to improve much when you have a bunch of countries at each others throats).  Asian example : NewMedia Express  uses auto optimization and yet...

    some people only understand videos :p


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0VbyJrmf1Q
     
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  20. HalfEatenPie

    HalfEatenPie The Irrational One Retired Staff

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    New Media Express has other problems than auto optimization...