amuck-landowner

Quadcopters and other tech toys?

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
What's the total cost of putting one of these together, including camera?
Depends greatly... I'd have a few hundred to drop to get started and a lot of patience. I swear, nothing comes with instructions and something you may think is relatively simple takes hours of research to get it to work properly. I think that's half the fun, though. I'm not for sure what I have in mine, money wise. I'd rather not know.

Speaking of money and money-pits:

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Some new updates. Namely, 4 new motors. I couldn't stand the damn Multistar ones since the shaft was cut for DJI style props. I was having issues getting proper fitting on them, even when I purchased DJI specific props. Pain in the ass. Had a box of props that I couldn't properly use, so replaced them with Sunnksky 960kv one. This also allowed me to use some 10X4.7 props that did not work on the old motors as the hub is too tall. It's a tight fit, but they work with these motors. (The old motors I will probably use on a tri-copter build).

Other upgrade includes two new items that arrived today that I am excited about: Landing skid, and the Tarot 2D gimbal for the GoPro, but I purchased a 3D printed Mobius adapter for it.

MUCH FRUSTRATION today, when like most things.... shit just doesn't work as advertised. Very frustrating. The seller of the gimbal specifically advertises and recommends the landing skid for use on any non-DJI Phantom craft. So I think, "Awesome! They're made for each other. This is the obvious landing skid for me since it so clearly works with this gimbal without issue!"

Well, it works, but not after some frustration. See below:

S6rAMVo.jpg

Obviously it was intended to be used with much larger booms that are spaced closer together. So, that's one way for me to not re-order things from your eBay store by exaggerating the compatibility of one item just to sell different item it supposedly works with great. Not a huge deal, I've come to expect this with this hobby and as usual, had to craft my own solution. The solution included cutting up the rubber end pieces / caps for the end of the booms as they were obviously thicker than the boom itself, wrap those fuckers in duct-tape strips to make them even thicker, disregard assembly instructions for the skids and use one piece to place in front of the gimbal with me squeezing the two booms in the front to make them narrower/closer together while I tightened down the fasteners. So now, the gimbal is on there in a fashion I'd consider to be semi-safe. I don't expect it to fall off in flight now, and may secure it further with a combination of cussing, zip-ties, anger, and glue. :)

Oh yeah, did I mention the landing skid doesn't assemble directly out of the box? I had to sand the booms down to try to get them to fit. When that didn't work, I had to use my knife to shave a bit of material out of the 'clips' so I could assemble the bottom of the legs. Up top, they worked without modification. Down below, the 'clips' were designed for slightly smaller diameter booms or something. Always something!

So now I get figure out how to get the gimbal working. The one page document that arrived with it that is in Chinese with very very vague English words on it does not help. Luckily I watched YouTube video for assembly, and now need to get it powered on the first time and tested. With that said, wish me luck :)
 
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MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Went and flew at an AMA field today. No one was there, I was hoping someone would ask if I was a member so I could flash my card. Oh well. First time I've been there and it was fun!

Wm2jkbg.jpg

Was trying FPV out again, had my Mobius on my gimbal and my father's SJ4000 up top.

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Nice field. I can't wait to fly there when I get around to building a FPV glider! :)

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Our setups. Mine is the larger one, had to swap out props after a crash... sort of hard to land with the landing skid attatched when you're landing far from you. I didn't realize I was still moving forward so when I had come to the ground, flipped forward and broke a prop. Lot easier to land near myself...
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Time to build a miniquad!

I want my big quad to just be stable, slow, and used for aerial photography and filming. This miniquad is going to be something I can fly fast and abuse!

Just ordered this frame last night: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390928742118?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I've got a ton of nylon screws, nuts and fasteners. Will use those instead of what is included so crashes will break the connections instead of breaking the actual arms and what not. My father who is into this stuff as well is actually building a mini-quad now too... so on the weekends we'll have to get together and race them somewhere :)
 

NullMind

New Member
Verified Provider
I have been resisting to get myself a frame to build or a RTR, last time I got into RC and RC Choppers it cost me a pretty penny, I tend to get obsessed :)

But the DJI Phantom has been calling my name ...
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
I have been resisting to get myself a frame to build or a RTR, last time I got into RC and RC Choppers it cost me a pretty penny, I tend to get obsessed :)

But the DJI Phantom has been calling my name ...
If you like to tinker, build one. :)

I just started building a new quad today, a little FPV mini quad. Going to use this for FPV racing while wearing video goggles and just having fun flying around fast :)

Still a work in progress as I've only got the frame in today. Everything else shown is just there for an example of placement.

8NxXk9R.jpg

Side by side my other one (Though I have removed the landing skid and gimbal as I was re-adjusting the settings over the weekend for better flight)

S1ILU1l.jpg
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
My soldering sucks. I need more practice and better tools though.

Had to use my $8 soldering iron as the one I normally use was broke, and that board is about the size of a half-dollar coin. That's just the battery leads for the mini-quad, I didn't take a photo of the soldered on xt60 connector on the other end, but I used shrink wrap over those so you'd not be able to see the solder joint anyway.

My solder job looks bad but it'll work. I'll do more soldering on it later, still no ESCs yet which is the bulk of the work but I can connect some leads for LED lights and solder the pins on the Naze32 FC board. It's just the board and a bag of pins like this (not my photo, but too lazy to get mine out and take a photo. Will share end-result later)

naze32.jpg
 
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Francisco

Company Lube
Verified Provider
Honestly it looks like your solder isn't getting hot enough or that you're heating the wrong part :p

Isn't it that you're supposed to heat the points and not the component/wire, that way you don't damage it?

This is all very tempting but like @NullMind i'd probably blow a ton of cash just because

i'd obsess over it for a while.

Francisco
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Honestly it looks like your solder isn't getting hot enough or that you're heating the wrong part :p


Isn't it that you're supposed to heat the points and not the component/wire, that way you don't damage it?


This is all very tempting but like @NullMind i'd probably blow a ton of cash just because


i'd obsess over it for a while.


Francisco
Well, I was stuck using my $8 crappy soldering iron instead of the big solder gun. Since it was such a small part what I was doing, and it's probably not proper was heating a bead up and then trying to 'paint it on', so to speak to spread it out. I was trying to be very careful to not get too much on or have the positive and negative sides touch.

I've honestly never really looked into it or read or watched and instruction. I just hold the part I am soldering in a 3rd arm device, heat the iron/gun up until it'll melt the solder and then heat up the exposed wire a bit and get some solder mixed in and solder that bitch to wherever it's going. On my big quad it seemed to work, but I had a better soldering iron and larger parts and areas. Most of that was just soldering bullet connectors on cables though.

I can always redo it if needed. I'm investing in a proper soldering station soon since it's become apparent it's something I'm going to need.

Anyhow, speaking of quads: My big one was flying real well today. Finally got it tuned well and balanced properly with the gimbal/camera and skid on it. Here are some still frames taken from recorded video earlier:

iCWNWTl.jpg
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Maiden flight is tomorrow on my newly built FPV mini quad!

Still gotta tune the settings but the wiring and build is good to go, the rest is software side. Glad that soldering is done, spent like 5 damn hours doing that. It still looks rough but I didn't trim wires to size. Will do that some other time.

All I gotta do now is ensure that the motors are spinning the right way, heat shrink over the connectors, zip tie stuff down to make it look cleaner, update the firmware on the FC board and pray that it doesn't fly away on me tomorrow!

mwFdKwG.jpg

aGiSJID.jpg
 
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MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Turns out my father and I both got our miniquads in the air the same weekend. I had my first succesful maiden yesterday, his was today. We flew earlier and I took this of our minis next to each other:

2X9B88o.jpg

Mine on the left, his on the right. 

These mini quads are hella fun. 
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Here is a still from today's earlier FPV flight. Was my first 'real' FPV flight where I couldn't see the quad at all even if I wanted to, navigated only from live video feed that was being transmitted to my laptop.

2ZhERlV.jpg

I also learned how to do barrel rolls today. :)

Video later.
 

nunim

VPS Junkie
Seems no one is able to give me an approximate cost...  I see pre-built models like the Parrot for around $300 on Amazon but I'd assume that it's inferior in performance/functionality compared to what you built.  

Is building from parts anywhere near comparable..?  

What do the cameras run for? I believe that would be most expensive single component. 

I know some of the pre-built models use Blueooth/WIFI to communicate with the tablet/phone/PC, which makes me think the range would be pretty poor.

Are the self-built models using a 2.4GHz wireless camera?  What about controls, are you using a standard 4 channel hobby controller or some sort of wireless PC/tablet interface?  What's the max range for video/control like?  

I would assume you need the video signal in order to pilot the drone beyond visual range/behind an obstruction so the effective range would be limited by video.

I'm interested in building one, as people keep bugging me for Christmas ideas(this or a 3D printer), seems like it'd make a nice hobby.

One more question, how's the durability in regards to landing?  I'm sure that everyone's had some failed landings.  Are drones like one of those cheap plastic helicopters that are busted after a hard landing or two?

Do you know of a good how-to online or parts guide?
 
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MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Seems no one is able to give me an approximate cost...  I see pre-built models like the Parrot for around $300 on Amazon but I'd assume that it's inferior in performance/functionality compared to what you built.  

Is building from parts anywhere near comparable..?  

What do the cameras run for? I believe that would be most expensive single component. 

I know some of the pre-built models use Blueooth/WIFI to communicate with the tablet/phone/PC, which makes me think the range would be pretty poor.

Are the self-built models using a 2.4GHz wireless camera?  What about controls, are you using a standard 4 channel hobby controller or some sort of wireless PC/tablet interface?  What's the max range for video/control like?  

I would assume you need the video signal in order to pilot the drone beyond visual range/behind an obstruction so the effective range would be limited by video.

I'm interested in building one, as people keep bugging me for Christmas ideas(this or a 3D printer), seems like it'd make a nice hobby.

One more question, how's the durability in regards to landing?  I'm sure that everyone's had some failed landings.  Are drones like one of those cheap plastic helicopters that are busted after a hard landing or two?

Do you know of a good how-to online or parts guide?

I'll try to give a run down of my mini-quad since it was most recently built. The cost may differ slightly, this is from memory:

  • Carbon fiber frame: $50 (Some cheaper, some more expensive)
  • Motors: $25~ each, X4 (Some cheaper, some more expensive. I bought a premium brand motor on sale for 40% off)
  • Flight controller: $25~ (A couple are cheaper, some much more expensive. This is a pretty basic flight controller that doesn't have all the bells and whistles)
  • Power Distribution Board: $8 (Optional, but very useful. You can solder everything together without it if you want, but I prefer using one)
  • ESC/Electronic Speed Controlers: I think these were $15 each, X4. (One for each motor. Some cheaper, some more expensive)
  • FPV Camera: $30~, I think. It's a Sony CCD 600TVL camera. If you have an old surveilance camera, you can yank the camera and sensor from it, it's the same.
  • HD Camera: $80 (1080P Mobius action camera is what I have. GoPros are more expensive. Video quality is similar in good light, GoPro has better transitions from light to shadow, but didn't seem worth the extra cost to me).
  • Propellers: Cheap. You're going to want to buy a ton of them anyway. The props for a mini quad are about a dollar a pop or something like.
  • FPV transmitter/receiver: I bought a $65 5.8Ghz Boscam package from Amazon and got some cloverleaf antennas for about $30 to replace the whip antennas that were included.
  • Radio/receiver: I bought a real low end, probably as low as you can go, $30~ combo from Hobby King. I'm going to upgrade this soon though as I need more channels and want to use it interchangeably between devices as I'll soon be building an FPV glider too. These can be as cheap as what I have to hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

You'll also need odds and ends, things like additional batteries, good battery charger, I recommend a LiPo bag for safe storage of batteries, soldering iron and accessories if you don't already have one/some, things like heat shrink and bullet connectors, other random connectors like xt60 connectors and JST connectors, random wire gauges, etc. A good propeller balancer is a must on a big quad. Makes the world of difference in flight.

Some of that I had on my big quad and pulled off to put on the mini (FPV gear), some of it I share with it (camera and radio receiver) and what not. The propellers on the big quad are more expensive, but costs should be about the same, give or take.

You can also build your own frame out of hobby wood and what not too. You're going to crash, break props and arms and what not on a big quad. I've already abused the mini quad pretty good and it's so small and stiff and strong that it's not had any issues.

I'd get a cheap one from Amazon to start with, something you can learn on and abuse. I'd rather break an $80 toy than break/lose/destroy my first custom built one. I flew my toy one around for a bit before I decided to dive in and it certainly helped, even though I broke an arm on my big quad the first day I flew it. Nothing some zipties and wooden dowels couldn't fix. I later bought another frame for spare parts, but haven't broken any arms since then... but still good to have. Never know!
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Should check out: http://www.reddit.com/r/multicopter which is a pretty good resource and helped get me started and acquainted with the hobby.

It's pretty fun. I go over to my father's on the weekends and we usually fly around since he's into it to (got me into it, actually). Makes for a good time. Both of us have a 450 sized quad and a small 250 sized quad. We've been talking about doing some FPV racing, though I need a better FPV setup since I use my laptop via a USB/AV converter... he just ordered some FPV goggles and I'll probably tear apart an old 7" portable DVD player so I can yank out the screen and figure out how to wire it into a new case to display real-time flight footage. :p
 

nunim

VPS Junkie
Should check out: http://www.reddit.com/r/multicopter which is a pretty good resource and helped get me started and acquainted with the hobby.

It's pretty fun. I go over to my father's on the weekends and we usually fly around since he's into it to (got me into it, actually). Makes for a good time. Both of us have a 450 sized quad and a small 250 sized quad. We've been talking about doing some FPV racing, though I need a better FPV setup since I use my laptop via a USB/AV converter... he just ordered some FPV goggles and I'll probably tear apart an old 7" portable DVD player so I can yank out the screen and figure out how to wire it into a new case to display real-time flight footage. :p
Thanks for the information, there's a ton that I'd  need to research.

What's the range like on your mini-quad?  Are you using a wireless camera transmitter, does it have a HDMI output or something?

What's the typical flight time/charge time for a mini quad?
 

TurnkeyInternet

Active Member
Verified Provider
those look awesome.  I got hooked almost 2 year ago when watching "King of the Nerds" on TBS and they had a competition flying Parrot AR DRone's around an obstacle course using an iphone  and FPV on the iphone.  After breaking and reparing 2 of them over the years, i'm planning to graduate up to to something more commercial grade.  Then as I look out the window today, its snowing in NY so think that dream may be waiting for spring.
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
So, I've got a sonar module to play with now and got a couple motor servos that I may use to control the angle of the FPV camera. Got a couple open aux channels that I can use to (hopefully) turn it left/right or up/down when in flight. Might be more practical on my big quad than my small quad but will be fun to play with.

Trying now to determine why my Mobius is acting like it's dead. Took it apart, checked the ribbon cables and anything soldered within incase anything came disconnected. I do believe it was working fine but last month I was flying fast and low in the woods and came in contact with the ground. The quad did a few somersaults and when I went back inside to change the broken propellers and review the footage, I noticed it hadn't recorded anything. After that it just has been acting like there was a bad firmware update but I hadn't touched the firmware on the camera, so unsure what happened. Still looking into it. =/
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
KzvNCw1.jpg

Got this sweet pistol case for Christmas that makes for a good quad holder. Should be much easier to move it around safely. Also got that directional antena which will be fun to play with, will need to do some range tests. I may add a screen to the box also, behind the top layer of foam and mod the entire box for FPV operations. We'll see though. :)
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Just got back in from flying. Waiting for some of those cheap Quantum FPV goggles to arrive, but was able to use a pair belonging to someone else today and was flying FPV with those. Still a bit strange flying this way and I need to get things locked in more as maintaining consistent altitude is difficult...

I think this weekend if I find the time I'll dust off the sonar module I have and solder some stuff together and get it working. Ideally I'll set a limit of 2 or 3 feet so that I can avoid the ground when flying FPV and doing low proximity flights. I've got some trees in a field near me that are spaced about 8 feet apart from each other that I was flying through. When turning around to pass back through them my altitude always drops and I ht the ground earlier, breaking a prop. =/
 
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