amuck-landowner

Reserving Disk Space you Purchased from the Oversold VPS providers

acd

New Member
Pretty easy to keep users of @kaniini's program from assing a host node. Allocate a cgroup with memory.limit_in_bytes set such that the host node has some breathing room to do what it wants and set lockedpages to something stupidly low like 32. Then whenever you spin up an ovz, start it in the cgroup so they're all bound by a shared memory limit. So long as you're careful about to which disk you swap, your oversold cra---platform willl keep on rollin'.

That way I can see your lockedpages are low and know to avoid you as a host.

best regards,

-tw

edit: oh, I didn't see that the gc was stirring the memory up, I don't know if it's bad enough at .5 sec w/ 60 second turnover to make a complete mess.
 
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SkylarM

Well-Known Member
Verified Provider
I saw those the other night :) They're pretty nice little units.


If he's in gorack he's looking at like...$500/m for a full rack and 100mbit/sec. We priced out with them but they're so scared of DDOS we decided no.


Francisco
I am in gorack, but I'm on a separate network all together with a good friend of mine.


Well this is definitely going to cause the destruction of some hosts seriously overselling.

@ The L5420's are good units, even if they are going dirt cheap at places don't mean they won't perform up to spec.

However i do hope your not using used drives. ;|
God no not used drives. Dear god no. I should have specified. The L5520's went for ~320 per unit, and then the new drives ontop of that :p 
 

Zen

New Member
Just priced out a rented server.

2x E5620 (16 threads)

4 x 1tb disks

32gb ram

1gb  uplink

30tb bandwidth

30 ip's

$416.30 for that server. 

+1 extra ip $1.50

need extra ip as need one for the server itself.

alone each of the containers in KVM would have to be $13.92 on this machine right now.

Putting 30 vps on raid 10 on 4 disks?  not even gonna start with the low i/o I expect from this machine.

Just don't see it.

Would like to add to this thread, since it hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can tell..

Everyone is talking about the income per node, please take a moment to think about the COST per node.

30TB bandwidth? Bandwidth scales, it is not a dedicated resource, so don't purchase 30TB at once.. deploy a new node on 1,5,10TB etc - scale all the way up.

$1.5 per IP at DC level? Dodge. (srsly, when you're losing $1.5 on a $7 deal just from the IP alone, you should not be running it, from what I've seen you should be aiming for $0.50-0.90 per IP and many DC's will do this)

30 VPS on 4 disks? Most providers throw 100 VPS on 4 disks.. here it comes again, scale up. You put 4 disks in a node with space for 8 and see how it goes, why not? There is no reason to not scale based on usage.

These rented quotes I see providers getting are pretty horrendous.

So I think a big thing that customers AND providers are overlooking are their costs.
 
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Pete M.

New Member
Verified Provider
Keywords make a profit.  I am not doing this to just break even.  I need to make profit.  I have always asked for LEB KVM providers to provide me thier magic formula for making money.
@ operate on low margins or no margins until you make a name for yourself (I am speaking in general terms, not specifically about your company). Then you increase the prices a bit, but not by an obscene amount. No one likes price increases, so be polite about it. That is our philosophy. I work at Phoenix VPS with my older brother Marc, in case anyone's wondering, and we are getting ready to launch a budget KVM hosting service. It's not easy and it's hard work, and you always run the risk that it might not pay off, but you have to keep at it. There is no simple recipe for success, and I think that luck has allot to do with it, not just hard work.
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
This is the nastiest rudest thing I've ever seen, no real way to justify this.
 

No way to justify overselling to the degree some providers do either.

For the few of us that are tired of the ghetto a$$ providers and are in a long term relationship with Satan, the provider, it's time to get a refund :)   Oh that's right, no refunds or $25 billing fee to get a refund.   Sure, fine, I'll continue being your customer :)
 

nunim

VPS Junkie
I feel like this topic turned into How Do You Operate Your VPS Company...  

So to get back on topic, as far as writing blocks to the disk to "reserve" your disk space, well I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to do it, but if you're using a provider where you feel it's necessary to go to such lengths, your best bet is probably to just find a better provider.  Don't buy the CVPS style "deals" and you shouldn't have a problem....

I don't see the point of trying to "reserve" your memory at all, if you're running out of memory/processes getting killed before you're at your specified limit then you should probably talk to your host to see what's up.  Overselling is a balancing act, unless you're CVPS and it's a way of life.

Or am I the only one around here who has never bought one of those crazy oversold style deals?  I don't know what you'd use 2 or 3 GB of ram for anyhow without heavily using other resources (CPU/IO). 
 
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sleddog

New Member
What to do? Claim some of your resources for the rest of your stay as a customer:
Probably a waste of your time.

If the host is overselling this much, you're going to encounter all kinds of disk i/o problems.

100 GB of disk space "reserved" on a container with crappy i/o is useless. Just go get a better vps.
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
00 GB of disk space "reserved" on a container with crappy i/o is useless
 

It's useful, for filling up the trashed disk with files and putting a dent in more overselling.

Every plan I have languishing from a provider I haven't been happy with are getting space reserved files stored this weekend.  It is the least I can do to get my value or prevent someone else from not getting theirs.  

Just a matter of time before other folks take note and start doing some of the same.
 

coreyman

Active Member
Verified Provider
It's useful, for filling up the trashed disk with files and putting a dent in more overselling.

Every plan I have languishing from a provider I haven't been happy with are getting space reserved files stored this weekend.  It is the least I can do to get my value or prevent someone else from not getting theirs.  

Just a matter of time before other folks take note and start doing some of the same.

If you are unhappy with your provider just leave. If your intent is to say that overselling is making a deal with satan then you have a lot to learn about business. It seems like you think EVERYONE should be 'reserving' all of their resources. The fact is, if everyone was doing this you wouldn't have ANY lowendboxes period.
 

acd

New Member
...The fact is, if everyone was doing this you wouldn't have ANY lowendboxes period.
This has to be a gross exaggeration. I'm willing to bet the oversell factor at places like BuyVM and RamNode isn't nearly as bleak as you make it out to be, especially in the KVM & Xen HVM areas (in fact, I bet the advertised resources sold/available ratio is < 1 for hardware virtualizers)
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
If you are unhappy with your provider just leave. If your intent is to say that overselling is making a deal with satan then you have a lot to learn about business. It seems like you think EVERYONE should be 'reserving' all of their resources. The fact is, if everyone was doing this you wouldn't have ANY lowendboxes period.

I have dozens of providers.   Most of them do a good job. The bad ones, leaving just means more free dollars for them.  Nah, I'll linger.

then you have a lot to learn about business
I've been involved in business for over 25 years.  Not much escapes me.

Calling some low end providers, like the unlimited cellular illusionists, SATAN is what I do.  Both convince you that you are getting a whole lot of service at a low price.  The cellular companies at least have to provide services to some minimum level or face regulators, consumer advocates, etc.  What they do like $60 for 2GB of wireless transit a month is legalized highway robbery.

Are some low end providers just as bad?  In some ways.

Me, if I buy something, I am using it or stopping it as customer (i.e. discontinuing service). Outside of a two month, watch and see period, it gets used or goes bye bye.

Nothing nice about providers that argue refunds or refuse refunds (had one company I looked at today saying they never provider a refund because of the amount of time each account takes?!?!?!).  That's a damn lie and doesn't reflect what real businesses do.

It seems like you think EVERYONE should be 'reserving' all of their resources.
I want to encourage folks who are dealing with oversold and underutilized plans and who are stuck in a non healthy provider-customer relationship to give those providers a thank you since they won't refund and part ways civilly.

The fact is, if everyone was doing this you wouldn't have ANY lowendboxes period.

Cheap snake oil salesmen always devise new scams to divide rational people from their money.  

The same argument and outcome could be envisioned for other scenarios.  Like, if we all went to the bank to withdraw our funds (oops we don't have your money and can't even wire credits elsewhere).  Heck if 25% of us did that it would fall down.

The low end reminds me of insurance carriers with customers who have paid rates for years and never used/claimed anything.  Allstate I believe it was saw the wisdom to not only lower their rates, but to start offering partial refunds/rewards to those customers.

When I see a $180/mo server being whored out with ungodly numbers of VPS accounts in that $3-10 range on said server it raises my ire.  Providers like that would be better to stick back there in the older generation servers and reduce their costs.  Have a better cost vs. income ratio. 

I can't control providers, but the bad ones, I can certainly make it increasingly more expensive to pull the same scam-like skits on customers.  Most of those providers are so insanely stupid about business that they continue the hardware spec nuclear arms races with the other skid providers (50GB of disk + 2GB + 2TB transit + + + for $2-7 a month).   So they up the resources or pretend they have the resources and keep buying "exotic" overpriced servers to compete the Jones'.  It's laughable.
 
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jcaleb

New Member
Or am I the only one around here who has never bought one of those crazy oversold style deals?  I don't know what you'd use 2 or 3 GB of ram for anyhow without heavily using other resources (CPU/IO).
I wrote a Java program to eat lots of Heap space and run multiple instances of it. so just to reserve 3.5gb or the 4gb i bought. but thats just because i was reviewing
 

tdc-adm

New Member
I hope both customers and providers play fair. As a customer, I will never do a "reserving disk space". I try many providers and stay with the good ones. I even install zabbix in my VPSes to monitor their performance. If I spot something weird about performance, I will review my website sourcecode first (I'm a developer) before contacting my provider for their hardware oversold...  :)
 
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