Reserving Disk Space you Purchased from the Oversold VPS providers
- Thread starter drmike
- Start date
Aldryic C'boas
The Pony
Because they paid for the resources. If you're not prepared for a client to use what you advertised and they paid for, then be less shady with your setup. I'm seeing a whole lot of "it's 'understood' that OVZ is oversold to X extent"... and yet NONE of you actually mention that to clients on your websites/ads/etc. If you want to oversell and get pissed over a client wanting the resources they paid for? Fine. At least have the decency to be honest with them in the first place.
Seriously, that's what some of you are sounding like right now.
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jcaleb
New Member
Will you warn/discipline/suspend/kick me if I pad my OVZ disk space upto 80% with random data, and run a custom app to consume 90% of my RAM? Assuming I'm not hitting I/O and CPU. Maybe 0.1 load average.
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No, this is not the point.
I mean, the customer paid and should be able to use resources at any time, but if he wastes them in purpose to do harm, then probably doesnt like the host (us) and I will make sure they understand the feeling is mutual.
We go to great lenghts for customers, but, if they are jerks, we can make exceptions and treat them the same they treat us and our other customers.
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vanarp
Active Member
How do you identify usage and wastage as a provider? If not filling random data, I might consume the additional free space (whatever left over from my webserving needs) to store my photos or videos. Will you consider this as usage or wastage?
I can agree to that customers on your OverZold plans should avoid reserving resources. But what about those on regular OpenVZ plans that cost higher than OverZold?
Even though I do not see Verified Provider under your name, I see that you are representing Prometeus/Iperweb in your responses. So the questions being your customer
We do not go through files to find people wasting space in purpose or even memory, nor did I see anyone doing this yet, however, if I will, then will be added to my blacklist and at slightest tos breach will get terminated directly.
We never had a problem such as resources not there when needed, perhaps some CPU rarely on overzold due to abusers and runescape botters but that has been fixed in ToS. therefore "reserving" resources is not necessary and only done to increase the prices and harm the provider and other customers (through said price increase).
Since this is not needed even if the customer wishes to pay more in the hope of getting a better service (I see that many people think more expensive=better) and tries to force a price increase this way, I can simply tell those that there are other really expensive providers, they can go there if they feel the urge to pay more.
We never had a problem such as resources not there when needed, perhaps some CPU rarely on overzold due to abusers and runescape botters but that has been fixed in ToS. therefore "reserving" resources is not necessary and only done to increase the prices and harm the provider and other customers (through said price increase).
Since this is not needed even if the customer wishes to pay more in the hope of getting a better service (I see that many people think more expensive=better) and tries to force a price increase this way, I can simply tell those that there are other really expensive providers, they can go there if they feel the urge to pay more.
jarland
The ocean is digital
Pretty much this. If everyone legitimately used 100% of their resources tomorrow, we'd be forced to migrate some users to a new node at our expense and compensate for any inconvenience. Every business has a risk factor. We, as hosts, know our job and we know what we've sold. It's economical and extremely reliable within reasonable parameters.
I'm not real sure what Aldryic is going on about. No self respecting provider wants to punish someone for using their resources. What we want to do is punish someone for trying to punish us for some personal game they feel like playing. Motive is the key here. Now, sure, you can't prove motive. I wouldn't try. But give me a client who casually mentions somewhere that he just likes to watch the resource bars in solusvm cap at 100% to express a personal issue with my business plan and I'll give you someone looking for a new host.
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I don't mind if any of our customers uses 100% of their resources all the time - every hour, every day, every month, etc. This includes the RAM, HDD and bandwidth.
About the CPU it's different and we specify in the ToS what's acceptable long time contention ratio of the CPU.
About the CPU it's different and we specify in the ToS what's acceptable long time contention ratio of the CPU.
jarland
The ocean is digital
Neither do I, but "uses" is the key word there.
Aldryic C'boas
The Pony
Nope. You're paying for the resources, use them. (But if you have 95% random data, don't ask for a migration
)tl;dr - it irks me when a host sells a specific amount of resources, then gets annoyed when someone actually wants to use them. Yes, I realize most folks oversell their OpenVZ deployment.. but like you said, we'd be forced to migrate some users to a new node at our expense and compensate for any inconvenience . That's a risk that the folks overselling knowingly take, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The problem is when a host oversells, and when a client does want to use their purchased resources but can't, the host throws a tantrum about "openvz is supposed to be oversold, they're not supposed to get it all". That's just bullshit - be honest with your clients, don't sell them something you can't provide.
Something else that picked my interest:
That's a very, very slippery slope. You'd best have some public smoking gun before you go after a client, otherwise people are going to start wondering why you're using vzctl enter and digging through their VPS. Sure, it's obvious to everyone here that OpenVZ is insanely insecure, and that a provider can rifle through your personal stuff at any time... but the vast majority of clients don't know this. And if you get caught? Heh.
I agree 100%. And don't misunderstand, I'm not being supportive of these "use all the resources" scripts (personally, that sounds pretty damn abusive to me). Nor am I hating on providers that take advantage of OpenVZ's capacity for over-commitment and wisely (key word there) balancing the line between efficient use and oversell. But every provider that I see say "Of course it's oversold, they're not supposed to be able to use it all"... they need to get out of this business. They're the ones that give the rest of us (and OpenVZ as a platform) a bad name.
I cannot agree more. Whilst the idea behind what the topic seems wrong to me, technically you are well within your rights to use your resources. We run a transparency policy on overselling for a reason -- while we don't expect clients to use all of their resources and provide cost-effective solutions as a result of overselling, we do monitor nodes and balance accordingly for those that DO use their resources. If you want to buy a VPS from us and use all of the disk space and ram, by all means feel free to do so. Any host that looks at a client and goes "oh you want to use your resources? Well we have a 'we can kick you for any reason' clause in our TOS, bye!" needs to seriously re-evaluate what they are doing.
I'd just much prefer clients that are using their resources be using it for legitimate reasons, not "reserving" it -- but I'm definitely not going to go snooping through a client's data just to verify it's legitimacy. It's sort of like waiting in a line, but putting a piece of paper on the ground saying this is my spot, move me when the line moves I'll come back when I'm ready. If you pay for 100GB of disk space with us, please do use it for legitimate means. Just don't do something with the intent of "reserving" space. You shouldn't have to. If you feel like you have to reserve the resources, then you're simply with the wrong provider -- the host is responsible to make sure that the resources are there if and when a client decides to use it.
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I hope everyone with "reserving resources" thinking can read this whole topic. Happy ending
jarland
The ocean is digital
Valuable topic and conversation for sure.I hope everyone with "reserving resources" thinking can read this whole topic. Happy ending
To risk a conclusion:
If you feel like there is a risk your disk space will not be there tomorrow when you neeed it, then, you should "reserve" it (though I am not sure if this is the best method, most likely when you delete something to make space for something you need, the space will just not be available the next second, or, at least a part of it).
If you do this to harm the host and push for a price increase just because you like pollution and wish to help hardware vendors, then you are wrong to do so.
If you do it just because you can and this is to prove your point, you are probably abusing with something else too, such as DDoS and the like.
If you feel like there is a risk your disk space will not be there tomorrow when you neeed it, then, you should "reserve" it (though I am not sure if this is the best method, most likely when you delete something to make space for something you need, the space will just not be available the next second, or, at least a part of it).
If you do this to harm the host and push for a price increase just because you like pollution and wish to help hardware vendors, then you are wrong to do so.
If you do it just because you can and this is to prove your point, you are probably abusing with something else too, such as DDoS and the like.
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vanarp
Active Member
Great discussion indeed! I learned how different providers think about their OpenVZ offerings.
I still have two questions in relation to this discussion:
I still have two questions in relation to this discussion:
- Do providers consider usage of OpenVZ VPS for backup purpose as abuse (assuming disk space is consumed to full)?
- Getting a KVM/XEN is the right solution if one intends to keep the allocated Disk & RAM fully/almost consumed?