VM/Dedicated IP or a shared IP?
Spamhaus. A good or bad force in the industry?
- Thread starter MannDude
- Start date
Dedicated IP.
Not going to say much as i like to separate things up.
Reason according to spamhaus something like shoehous.
Don't run the website at the moment as offshore hosts are a ass to deal with.
But we only sent account activation emails.
Aldryic C'boas
The Pony
Sure. Just like you never really DDoS'd someone, and it was 'all a misunderstanding'. And if I recall correctly - the last time you told this story, you 'just happened to be in the same netblock', and weren't targetted by Spamhaus directly. Why you think people believe a word you say after your constant lies baffles me.
Edit: For clarification, that was directed at the post above KuJoe's - he had already replied to our resident failed abortion before I finished my rant >_>
Back on topic - threads like this are fairly rotational - you're pretty much going to see at least 2-3 on various forums a few times a year. And out of all the ones I've read, I cannot think of a single legitimate provider in charge of their own IP space and actually keeping their network clean that had problems with Spamhaus. Or any other SBLs really, minus the actual scam organizations like UCE.
What I do see a lot of, are people that were collateral damage (CC users, people that don't own the IP space being affected by their neighbors, etc) going on crusades against 'The Evil Spamhaus'. Spamhaus didn't target you - they don't even know you exist, and likely wouldn't care if they did know. Your upstream did something stupid, you suffered the consequences. Vent your frustration at your upstream, as they are the ones responsible - not the SBLs doing their job.
Another thing I see a lot of is people trying to defend "providers" that rent IP space from known dirty companies (again, everyone's favourite CC and sons). Don't be absurd - if these kids really cared about their business and clients, they would either get their own IP space or get the hell away from their dirty upstream. "Oh but CC is cheap and we can't afford to go with a real upstream". Well, maybe you should've concentrated on selling sustainable service under a proper business plan rather than the "let's see how much garbage we can cram per machine at bottom dollar" Fabozzi model.
Personal experience? I've been dealing with Spamhaus for over a decade for various companies - latest and longest being my work with Fran. They know us, they know we're very strict on abuse. Not only do some of the workers know me by name, but I've even received emails or calls on my personal cell to give me a heads-up on abuse, rather than us getting listed - because they know we're serious about dealing with abuse, and we're not just going to bullshit them to make a few more bucks from a spammer.
tl;dr - If you actually care about your business and handle abuse, you won't have problems with RBLs. If you want to just make money selling to anyone, competing in the idiotic resource races? Hey, you get what you sell for.
Edit: For clarification, that was directed at the post above KuJoe's - he had already replied to our resident failed abortion before I finished my rant >_>
Back on topic - threads like this are fairly rotational - you're pretty much going to see at least 2-3 on various forums a few times a year. And out of all the ones I've read, I cannot think of a single legitimate provider in charge of their own IP space and actually keeping their network clean that had problems with Spamhaus. Or any other SBLs really, minus the actual scam organizations like UCE.
What I do see a lot of, are people that were collateral damage (CC users, people that don't own the IP space being affected by their neighbors, etc) going on crusades against 'The Evil Spamhaus'. Spamhaus didn't target you - they don't even know you exist, and likely wouldn't care if they did know. Your upstream did something stupid, you suffered the consequences. Vent your frustration at your upstream, as they are the ones responsible - not the SBLs doing their job.
Another thing I see a lot of is people trying to defend "providers" that rent IP space from known dirty companies (again, everyone's favourite CC and sons). Don't be absurd - if these kids really cared about their business and clients, they would either get their own IP space or get the hell away from their dirty upstream. "Oh but CC is cheap and we can't afford to go with a real upstream". Well, maybe you should've concentrated on selling sustainable service under a proper business plan rather than the "let's see how much garbage we can cram per machine at bottom dollar" Fabozzi model.
Personal experience? I've been dealing with Spamhaus for over a decade for various companies - latest and longest being my work with Fran. They know us, they know we're very strict on abuse. Not only do some of the workers know me by name, but I've even received emails or calls on my personal cell to give me a heads-up on abuse, rather than us getting listed - because they know we're serious about dealing with abuse, and we're not just going to bullshit them to make a few more bucks from a spammer.
tl;dr - If you actually care about your business and handle abuse, you won't have problems with RBLs. If you want to just make money selling to anyone, competing in the idiotic resource races? Hey, you get what you sell for.
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Our website only linked to files(torrent website) and we would always responded to Europe based copyright claims but no DMCA's are we had VPS's in Europe.
We never got a copyright complaint forwarded to us aka we did a good enough job at dealing with copyright.
But we don't know how many really as our host had a slightly strange policy.
As they copyright agent only spoke Icelandic.
DomainBop
Dormant VPSB Pathogen
To a lesser extent you also see business owners like me bitching about the annual $$$ cost of trying to fight all of the incoming SPAM we get hit with (both email SPAM and web based threats like comment spammers, bots, etc) and going on crusades against shitty SPAM friendly providers like Ecatel, the kids from the daycare, etc.
Back to Manndude's question: I've mentioned before that my company makes extensive use of Spamhaus lists and over a dozen other blocklists both at the firewall and application level. Using the blacklists makes our life much easier: annual $$$ costs incurred from SPAM (I'm including both email and web based threats here) are lowered, legitimate incoming emails don't get lost in a sea of Viagra spams, server loads are greatly reduced (if we removed those blocklists our server loads would instantly double from being hit nonstop with crap) so I think overall Spamhaus and other blocklists are doing a great service for the (Internet) industry.
There might be some collateral damage when a Blacklist whacks an entire /15, but the people who are caught in the crossfire could easily reduce their risk of being a collateral damage victim if they did their research being signing up with a hosting provider or data center (or pseudo data center like CC). If they're signing up with a provider who doesn't own their own IP space they also need to research the upstream owner of the IP space. If you don't do your research and just grab a deal from a provider because OMFG RAM! lots of it! Cheap! then you have only yourself to blame when you become collateral damage.
You've hit the nail right on the head.To a lesser extent you also see business owners like me bitching about the annual $$$ cost of trying to fight all of the incoming SPAM we get hit with (both email SPAM and web based threats like comment spammers, bots, etc) and going on crusades against shitty SPAM friendly providers like Ecatel, the kids from the daycare, etc.
Back to Manndude's question: I've mentioned before that my company makes extensive use of Spamhaus lists and over a dozen other blocklists both at the firewall and application level. Using the blacklists makes our life much easier: annual $$$ costs incurred from SPAM (I'm including both email and web based threats here) are lowered, legitimate incoming emails don't get lost in a sea of Viagra spams, server loads are greatly reduced (if we removed those blocklists our server loads would instantly double from being hit nonstop with crap) so I think overall Spamhaus and other blocklists are doing a great service for the (Internet) industry.
There might be some collateral damage when a Blacklist whacks an entire /15, but the people who are caught in the crossfire could easily reduce their risk of being a collateral damage victim if they did their research being signing up with a hosting provider or data center (or pseudo data center like CC). If they're signing up with a provider who doesn't own their own IP space they also need to research the upstream owner of the IP space. If you don't do your research and just grab a deal from a provider because OMFG RAM! lots of it! Cheap! then you have only yourself to blame when you become collateral damage.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
The only people calling Spamhaus Nazis are the paid shills over on that other parody site. Some folks should be ashamed of themselves parrotting for CC for discounts and lowcost / Free VPS.
What is going on and backgrounded to this post is the ColoCrossing can't stop fncking spamming. It's probably their liquidity, it's certainly their religion.
Unsure when "smart" people like Jon Biloh became so g0d damn dumb. Not only is spam illegal in many places, but vast majority of what is being spammed is illegal also. Illegal drug sales, prescription free selling of who knows what compounds, financial scams, ID theft, selling of fake imposter look-alike products, the list goes on and on. Keep playing with fire kids...
I've been (since the 1990's) a fan of requiring these network operators to have proper bonding and insurance to even operate. Bond / insurance should be pursued by victims/the inept/the defrauded/etc. in cases of damages inflicted upon them, their company due to negligence, fraud, etc. perpetrated from their said crappy networks.
People can paint blacklists and other proactive prevention systems as the boogeyman. People that do are misguided, ignoring reason, ignoring the mass collateral damage by sh!theads abusing such network resources.
If you live in a lousy, crime infested neighborhood, the police are the boogeymen / Nazis. You are likely to get looked at with additional scrutiny, you might be stopped for suspicious behavior, you may end up on lists.... Insurance companies will slap you in the pocketbook for living amongst filth, your home owners insurance will be higher than elsewhere, your car insurance will be higher due to theft and destruction propensity of your neighbors. Why should it be any different in network e-imaginary neighborhood in a crime infested neighborhood like ColoCrossing / Velocity Servers?
See the net isn't isolated like your neighborhood. What some a$$hole does on ColoCrossing's network by AK-47 style spraying spam, mass attacking targets, etc. ruins the bucolic happiness here in my non-adjacent network. It sends crime and filth into my children's school. It wastes electric, wastes computing resources, it wastes MY TIME.
Utopia BS of the internet is becoming utterly tiresome. Time for the laws that apply to meat and potatoes to start whacking idiot network operators where their tangibles are, in the pocketbook and/or attacking their liberty to operate such businesses. Because big picture, that's the only things these sorry a$$ excuses for providers/network operators understand - MONEY. That's why they allow, sell to and foster these bad customers / netizens.
I am sure ColoCrossing would rather have say the Federal Trade Commission and State regulators on their case instead of Spamhaus merely blacklisting ranges correctly. A proper criminal indictment surely would be less punitive than some Spamhaus action, right?
What is going on and backgrounded to this post is the ColoCrossing can't stop fncking spamming. It's probably their liquidity, it's certainly their religion.
Unsure when "smart" people like Jon Biloh became so g0d damn dumb. Not only is spam illegal in many places, but vast majority of what is being spammed is illegal also. Illegal drug sales, prescription free selling of who knows what compounds, financial scams, ID theft, selling of fake imposter look-alike products, the list goes on and on. Keep playing with fire kids...
I've been (since the 1990's) a fan of requiring these network operators to have proper bonding and insurance to even operate. Bond / insurance should be pursued by victims/the inept/the defrauded/etc. in cases of damages inflicted upon them, their company due to negligence, fraud, etc. perpetrated from their said crappy networks.
People can paint blacklists and other proactive prevention systems as the boogeyman. People that do are misguided, ignoring reason, ignoring the mass collateral damage by sh!theads abusing such network resources.
If you live in a lousy, crime infested neighborhood, the police are the boogeymen / Nazis. You are likely to get looked at with additional scrutiny, you might be stopped for suspicious behavior, you may end up on lists.... Insurance companies will slap you in the pocketbook for living amongst filth, your home owners insurance will be higher than elsewhere, your car insurance will be higher due to theft and destruction propensity of your neighbors. Why should it be any different in network e-imaginary neighborhood in a crime infested neighborhood like ColoCrossing / Velocity Servers?
See the net isn't isolated like your neighborhood. What some a$$hole does on ColoCrossing's network by AK-47 style spraying spam, mass attacking targets, etc. ruins the bucolic happiness here in my non-adjacent network. It sends crime and filth into my children's school. It wastes electric, wastes computing resources, it wastes MY TIME.
Utopia BS of the internet is becoming utterly tiresome. Time for the laws that apply to meat and potatoes to start whacking idiot network operators where their tangibles are, in the pocketbook and/or attacking their liberty to operate such businesses. Because big picture, that's the only things these sorry a$$ excuses for providers/network operators understand - MONEY. That's why they allow, sell to and foster these bad customers / netizens.
I am sure ColoCrossing would rather have say the Federal Trade Commission and State regulators on their case instead of Spamhaus merely blacklisting ranges correctly. A proper criminal indictment surely would be less punitive than some Spamhaus action, right?
texteditor
Premium Buffalo-based Hosting
Spamhaus is literally composed of Nazis and Colocrossing is literally the Warsaw Ghetto
this is a good summary, basically
Since last year's incident with Spamhaus we begun manual screening of new sign-ups, as well as monitoring outgoing smtp rate per client; basically taking proactive measures to make our network / services less attractive to spammers. Since then we have had no issue with Spamhaus.
We do not agree with the tactics that Spamhaus uses (blackmailng) against ISPs. But the truth is that once proactive measures were taken to ensure our network is clean we have not had issues with spammers, and honestly the internet would probably be a worst place for everyone if blacklists services like spamhaus did not exist.
My experiences with them have not been bad. Get a couple of listings a month (Mainly customers of our customers), resolve problem, reply back it is solved, listing removed. It is that simple.
Non profit does not mean they can't make a profit, that would be plain silly. It means can't use the surplus cash to pay dividends or to be drawn out as if it was profit. They need to use the money to invest and develop the company.
sleddog
New Member
Well, at least no-one has mentioned Der Fuehrer yet.
The secound compney is a LTD compney and first one is a non-profit.
It is a strange set up and thw whitelist compney does not exist.
My only problem with spamhaus is that they blackmail.
And they could employ themselves then pay them selves out of the chairity anyway.
But a 10x jump is vary strange.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Give it up mtwiscool...
At least Spamhaus is incorporated and understands to some degree the uses for incorporated entities and why to shield oneself properly.
Where does blackmailing by Spamhaus occur? Give me one real example....
See words have meanings:
I can't find Spamhaus using some emotional control to extract money from misbehaving service providers... They don't seem to operate a pay to get delisted service either.
syncrohost
New Member
They are fine as long as they can be reached via phone or email. Unfortunately it's near impossible to get a hold of someone when emails are being blocked and It's nothing but headaches when Spamhaus registers IP as blacklisted.
Kris
New Member
Lithuania? Sounds like BalticServers.
They switched IP ranges when they tried to look like a legitimate operation (and not just Xrumer machines) but then bought Santrex ranges
In before : No gauisue, I raely just waes hosting okays torrentings. They are the blakmails