Stripe, get a clue. Your chargeback system sucks

[SkylarM]

Little rant here.

When a dispute is opened via a credit card company to a paypal transaction, paypal allows you to accept liability, close out the dispute, and not charge you anything. You don't pay a fee, they refund their portion of the cuts they take from the transaction (their processing fees).

If you dispute it and lose, paypal will typically charge you a fee for attempting to fight the dispute but losing (associated manhours).

When a dispute is opened via STRIPE, stripe will charge you $15 regardless if you fight the dispute and lose or if you accept liability and close it out. On top of this, Stripe also makes YOU cover the associated transaction fees, so they pocket money for a fraudulent fee and make the merchant pay the $15 fee PLUS the transaction fees, so Stripe wins regardless of the outcome.

We are no longer accepting stripe as their fraud systems do not appropriately work, and stripe doesn't attempt to work with their merchants. We are actively seeking a replacement for credit card payments not made via paypal (and we are open to suggestions), but I cannot believe that stripe does this.

/end rant.

 

[dcdan]

We were about to go with Stripe for our new project. So I guess we should not. But what are the alternatives?

 

[blergh]

ccbill?

 

[SkylarM]

We were about to go with Stripe for our new project. So I guess we should not. But what are the alternatives?

Braintree seems like a solid alternative. They give you access to funds 2 days after rather than a week, they offer phone support unlike stripe, have dedicated fraud teams, have a proper fraud system (they will notify you if someone tries to use a credit card and fails multiple times and then gets one through [stripe doesn't care]), they have a fraud team, same fees, same way to accept cards like stripe does for whmcs.

 

[Reece-DM]

We've faced similar issues.

 

[dcdan]

Braintree seems like a solid alternative. They give you access to funds 2 days after rather than a week, they offer phone support unlike stripe, have dedicated fraud teams, have a proper fraud system (they will notify you if someone tries to use a credit card and fails multiple times and then gets one through [stripe doesn't care]), they have a fraud team, same fees, same way to accept cards like stripe does for whmcs.

Thanks, I checked out Braintree, looks like a decent drop-in replacement for Stripe. However, is it any good in case of chargebacks?

 

[SkylarM]

Thanks, I checked out Braintree, looks like a decent drop-in replacement for Stripe. However, is it any good in case of chargebacks?

They have significantly better fraud systems from what I can see. They DO charge $15 for a chargeback if you lose the case, but they refund their portion of the transaction fees (my biggest issues with stripe are NO PHONE SUPPORT what-so-ever, and they still pocket their transaction fee and say fuck you to the company using their services).

 

[WSWD]

Not really sure why anybody would use Stripe.  Well I do know...because it's cheap.   PayPal is a different story, but no reason to use Stripe. 

Do yourself a huge favor and get yourself a real merchant account with a real bank (preferably yours).  Yep, it is going to be slightly more expensive per transaction, might even have a monthly fee, but they will work their asses off to fight chargebacks if you are in the right.  I've had a good handful of unscrupulous chargebacks, and haven't lost a single one.  They have literally fought some of these for 2 months straight.

That's the difference between Stripe or PayPal, or whatever, who don't give a shit about you, and your bank who wants to keep you as a client. 

 

[SkylarM]

Direct with the bank would be a better option, but you still need a way to process it via WHMCS after that, so you end up double-dipping on some monthly fees no?

Of the chargebacks I've received via stripe, it ends up being transactions from other countries that look less than legitimate if you dig into the information. Stripe doesn't offer appropriate fraud protection systems (IE a guy failed a card charge 5 times with 5 different cards before one went through, stripe didn't notify me) -- Obviously I need to keep a much closer eye on credit card failed attempts like this, but it bothers me to no end that stripe doesn't seem to care, because no matter what happens they get their transaction fees -- which is retarded.

 

[Eric1212]

Title correction:  your*

 

[SkylarM]

Title correction:  your*

Anger has no spellcheck!

 

[Eric1212]

From their website:

 If the dispute is resolved in your favor, however, we refund the $15 fee.

The disputed amount is refunded to your bank account if the dispute is resolved in your favor.

https://stripe.com/help/disputes

 

[SkylarM]

From their website:

https://stripe.com/help/disputes

The $15 fee isn't necessarily the issue, it's the fact that THEY charge YOU for the TRANSACTION FEES that THEY Took from the original transaction.

IE:

$6 charge

$0.47 in transaction fees that they take

Chargeback comes in, they charge you $15 PLUS the $0.47 transaction fee.

You lose/accept liability, you pay $15.47. Stripe keeps their profits from the original transaction.

Nobody else does this. Braintree charges $15, but they refund the transaction fee to the transaction, rather than charging you for it and pocketing the fee for a fraudulent charge.

 

[WSWD]

Our processing gateway is included with the monthly fee we pay our bank, so we aren't charged separately for anything else (except American Express...those a-holes always manage to charge us extra). 

But even if there was some double-dipping, that's the cost of doing business.  It's great to be able to go in to the bank and actually talk with a real person, and work with real people.  When it comes to a chargeback, I can take my paperwork right into the bank, and talk to them.  That to me is well worth the extra monthly cost.

Real businesses dont use Stripe or PayPal or whatever else as their main payment processor. 

 

[SkylarM]

Our processing gateway is included with the monthly fee we pay our bank, so we aren't charged separately for anything else (except American Express...those a-holes always manage to charge us extra). 

But even if there was some double-dipping, that's the cost of doing business.  It's great to be able to go in to the bank and actually talk with a real person, and work with real people.  When it comes to a chargeback, I can take my paperwork right into the bank, and talk to them.  That to me is well worth the extra monthly cost.

Real businesses dont use Stripe or PayPal or whatever else as their main payment processor.

Credit Card processing withstanding, not offering paypal as an online company specifically as a webhost seems rather silly. The vast majority of our existing business is paypal transactions via account balance, not directly via credit or debit cards. Paypal is too large to simply ignore as a payment option in this industry.

 

[WSWD]

Credit Card processing withstanding, not offering paypal as an online company specifically as a webhost seems rather silly. The vast majority of our existing business is paypal transactions via account balance, not directly via credit or debit cards. Paypal is too large to simply ignore as a payment option in this industry.

PayPal is the obvious exception.  Even some brick and mortar businesses (Home Depot, for example) accept PayPal.  But they don't use it as their MAIN payment processor.  They use their bank.  There is no reason any legitimate company (even online webhost) should ever use PayPal or Stripe or anything else as their main payment processor, unless of course they are trying to be cheap.  That's what it comes down to.  Either they simply aren't legitimate businesses and thus can't get a business account through their bank, or they're cheap.  Not really any other reasons I can think of.

 

[SkylarM]

PayPal is the obvious exception.  Even some brick and mortar businesses (Home Depot, for example) accept PayPal.  But they don't use it as their MAIN payment processor.  They use their bank.  There is no reason any legitimate company (even online webhost) should ever use PayPal or Stripe or anything else as their main payment processor, unless of course they are trying to be cheap.  That's what it comes down to.  Either they simply aren't legitimate businesses and thus can't get a business account through their bank, or they're cheap.  Not really any other reasons I can think of.

I'll politely disagree with you relating to paypal. Stripe sure, paypal no.

 

[WSWD]

I'll politely disagree with you relating to paypal. Stripe sure, paypal no.

You can disagree all you like, but I'm right.  Do you know how unprofessional it is when somebody wants to pay with a credit card and it goes through PayPal?  Certainly makes me question the business.  I have almost completely stopped doing business with "companies" that only accept PayPal.  The companies with actual merchant accounts probably aren't going to fold one night and take my money with them.

 

[SkylarM]

You can disagree all you like, but I'm right.  Do you know how unprofessional it is when somebody wants to pay with a credit card and it goes through PayPal?  Certainly makes me question the business.  I have almost completely stopped doing business with "companies" that only accept PayPal.  The companies with actual merchant accounts probably aren't going to fold one night and take my money with them.

Paypal being your ONLY option for Credit Cards I agree, but in most cases with online purchases unless it's a major company like Amazon, Newegg, etc I typically trust paypal's system over giving a copy of my credit details to a company such as CC or cVPS(not saying I'd use said companies, but just an example of someone I'd not trust with my credit card details in any fashion.)

 

[WSWD]

I typically trust paypal's system over giving a copy of my credit details to a company such as CC or cVPS.

Well again, it works the other way too.  I don't trust PayPal to actually fight for me if soemthing goes wrong on the buying end either, simply because they don't care.  If something goes wrong with my credit/debit cards, my bank/credit card company is going to fight for me to get that money back.  PayPay certainly isn't.