Stripe, get a clue. Your chargeback system sucks

[Aldryic C'boas]

Just going to add my two cents here... we offer PayPal and Amazon SimplePay for our payment gateways - and have a fair number of large/global companies that retain service with us, and have absolutely zero qualms about what payments we accept.

WSWD, you need to get over yourself.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't automatically make it correct.

 

[clarity]

The forum cop has arrived!


/thread


Anything from this point on doesn't matter!

 

[InertiaNetworks-John]

There is always PayPal Pro Merchant accounts....where people don't even see PayPal when you use them for card transactions.

It's only $30/month, so it might not be so bad!

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

The forum cop has arrived!


/thread


Anything from this point on doesn't matter!

FFS Drew, my nine year old daughter doesn't cry and throw tantrums as much as you do.  Aren't you old enough to have kids of your own?  Grow up.

 

[shunny]

FFS Drew, my nine year old daughter doesn't cry and throw tantrums as much as you do.  Aren't you old enough to have kids of your own?  Grow up.

Lol

 

[clarity]

Grow up.

Nope. I'll keep calling you out on here. I like it better that way. 

 

[InertiaNetworks-John]

@SkyarM

Thanks for posting this topic. We have gotten a few chargebacks here and there with stripe and I never stopped to question their fees and what not. After you posted this I seriously am looking into another merchant account.

 

[MartinD]

It's only $30/month, so it might not be so bad!

I use it - have had no problems yet!

 

[WSWD]

WSWD, you need to get over yourself.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't automatically make it correct.

Thanks for the kind words!  Good morning to you too! 

The forum cop has arrived!


/thread


Anything from this point on doesn't matter!

Apparently!

Aldryic, you've clearly never run an actual brick and mortar business before.  If you have, try telling people coming in the door that they have to go to PayPal or SimplePay to pay you for your services.  Like I said, they'd walk right out the door. 

To get things back on topic, my point still stands.  PayPal, Stripe, etc. doesn't care about you...not two shits.  Now PayPal Pro might be different, since you are actually paying them.  But I've never used it, so I don't know.  But from what I have seen, heard, and dealt with personally for years and years, they simply aren't going to fight for you.  Your bank on the other hand will.  They want you as a client.  They want your money to invest.  And the right bank will fight to keep you.

If you want to keep losing chargebacks and paying all sorts of fees for the chargebacks, then keep cutting corners and going with all the lowest-cost or free "merchant accounts" you can find.  Keep using PayPal and Stripe and Square and see how well that works out for you and your business.  I haven't lost a single chargeback through my bank, nor a single dime in chargeback fees, for almost 20 years.  If you don't value my opinion, or don't care what I have to offer, then keep losing the chargebacks and paying the fees!  I don't give a shit, to be perfectly honest.  You'll be back here again in a few months with a new "I keep losing chargebacks with __________ and have to pay all sorts of fees" thread.  Just trying to give you some logical common sense business advice.  Take it or don't.  I don't care.

 

[SkylarM]

Aldryic, you've clearly never run an actual brick and mortar business before.

I have said this a few times, but I'll say it again. This is an online discussion about primarily online businesses, not physical shops or any of that jazz. While your point stands relating to physical stores, it is irrelevant to the specific topic at hand.

On another note, it's near impossible to lose paypal disputes as a seller of virtual goods. Virtual goods are not covered by the buyer protection policy and they side with my company each and every time.

We're looking at gathering additional information on going direct for processing with our bank, but as it stands right this moment it doesn't make the most sense YET to do so.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

Aldryic, you've clearly never run an actual brick and mortar business before.

And what makes you think you know the first thing about me?  Aside from being dead wrong about my own dealings, you think that your own personal experiences are the worldwide norm. 

Just a bit of advice, to make us even for all you've so helpfully shared: just because your limited perspective has convinced you there is a single way of things, does not make you an expert on all business dealings in the real world.

I don't give a shit, to be perfectly honest.  [..] Take it or don't.  I don't care.

That's more than apparent - we can see you're more interested in sounding big and important (hah) than dispensing actual advice.  If you really don't care?  This is an excellent time to walk away, unless you have something more you have to prove to yourself.

 

[Francisco]

I can't provide enough lube for this fight so I'll just give some feedback.

Paypal's pro payment thing (the CC merchant account setup) is....OK. We always hated the hold times they enforced and always refused to lower. We put quite a bit of money through them but that didn't change their mind very much.

The biggest issue is that, at least at the time, their IPN didn't provide enough information for better fraud monitoring.

Francisco

 

[MartinD]

It's a lot better now and you can negotiate the hold terms pretty low. I'm on 21 days I think, down from 60!

 

[Francisco]

It's a lot better now and you can negotiate the hold terms pretty low. I'm on 21 days I think, down from 60!

That's good to hear

Francisco

 

[XLvps]

ccbill?

Doesn't ccBill take 15% right off the top?

 

[KuJoe]

We've had about the same amount of people pay with Stripe as we've had people pay with bitcoins. Both combined make up less than 1% of transactions while Paypal makes up over 99% since Google Checkout went away. It does appear that Stripe is a big target for fraud as we've had more than enough issues with them but we just keep a better eye on orders that pay with Stripe and everybody is happy. I don't see the point in paying somebody more money to process credit cards when Stripe does it just fine. If I've learned anything in the 2+ years we've been doing this, it's not to rely on your payment processors to do extensive fraud checks.

Honestly, if somebody doesn't want to order from us because we only accept Paypal/Stripe/BitPay then that's fine. We're not going to raise our prices so potential clients feel better about typing in their credit card numbers. I do appreciate being compared to giant corporations like McDonalds though, it puts a smile on my face.

 

[WSWD]

just because your limited perspective has convinced you there is a single way of things, does not make you an expert on all business dealings in the real world.

My "limited perspective" has consisted of a MBA, a law degree (specializing in business law), owning multi-million dollar businesses for over 20 years, from restaurants to fast food franchises, Southern California's largest electrical services contractor, to hosting.  I've been around the block many, many times.  I know what works and what doesn't.  Business practices don't change online vs. brick and mortar.  The same general principles apply.  Either you know how to run a business or you don't.

If PayPal and Stripe were so great, this thread never would have been started.   Like I said, you guys can keep going that route and come back and start threads like this every few months, frustrated at losing the chargebacks and the fees.  Fine with me.  Was simply trying to help the OP out and let him know what works and what doesn't.  He can do with it what he pleases.

My "limited perspective" has made sure that I have not lost a single chargeback or paid a dime in chargeback fees in 20 years, through my bank, and there have been many attempts made.  The only chargebacks I have ever lost have been through PayPal, and that's simply because they don't care.  I gave them pages and pages of documentation supporting my cases, but it's easier for them to just issue the chargeback.  They're not going to put in the hours and manpower to fight for me over a $5 or $10 sale.  Why would they?  I certainly don't do enough business through PayPal for them to care.  I haven't looked recently, but I know it's under $10k a month through them.  That makes me a small fish in the PayPal world.  90% of my sales are made using credit cards. 

Honestly, if somebody doesn't want to order from us because we only accept Paypal/Stripe/BitPay then that's fine. We're not going to raise our prices so potential clients feel better about typing in their credit card numbers.

You shouldn't have to raise your prices.  I get much better rates through my merchant account than any of the online merchants can offer.  My bank covers my gateway fees and everything.

 

[ryanarp]

This might be off-topic now, but my one and only chargeback with Stripe has been resolved. Back in September, I got a glorious chargeback for $50.02. I put in a PDF of proof that this charge was legit. Even though 4 months have passed since the disputed transaction. I finally got a response that I won the dispute. So I guess to add to this topic I am posting the response of a legit chargeback resolved in the sellers favor. 

"We have good news for you! The disputed payment from September 09 was successfully resolved in your favor by your customer's bank or credit card company. This means that $50.02 and the dispute fee will be returned to your account in the next few days."

They returned the charged amount as well as the fees. Despite all of this I am not defending how Stripe does their chargebacks. Just adding to the thread from a personal experience. 

 

[john]

I have similar experiences as Ryan.

A while ago, we had a string of orders from Brazil (each individual order looked legit at the time but later analysis revealed that they were all connected) that all turned out to be abusive (abusive reports come in, service is suspended, we get a chargeback notification). The orders paid with Stripe, PayPal, and Google Checkout. We basically automatically lost the chargeback with PayPal. Google Checkout was a similar series of events. The chargeback cases with Stripe, we won all of them (except one which is still being reviewed). 

Stripe does not appear to rate limit attempts so I keep a close eye on failed payments in Stripe. This is one area they could approve on. However, with Stripe it appears you have a fighting chance to win a chargeback case which does not appear to be the case with PayPal, atleast in my experiences. 

 

[SkylarM]

I have similar experiences as Ryan.

A while ago, we had a string of orders from Brazil (each individual order looked legit at the time but later analysis revealed that they were all connected) that all turned out to be abusive (abusive reports come in, service is suspended, we get a chargeback notification). The orders paid with Stripe, PayPal, and Google Checkout. We basically automatically lost the chargeback with PayPal. Google Checkout was a similar series of events. The chargeback cases with Stripe, we won all of them (except one which is still being reviewed). 

Stripe does not appear to rate limit attempts so I keep a close eye on failed payments in Stripe. This is one area they could approve on. However, with Stripe it appears you have a fighting chance to win a chargeback case which does not appear to be the case with PayPal, atleast in my experiences.

Curious. When you say Paypal, I assume it was a Credit Card charge through Paypal, and not a direct Paypal Payment?