Stripe, get a clue. Your chargeback system sucks

[SkylarM]

Well again, it works the other way too.  I don't trust PayPal to actually fight for me if soemthing goes wrong on the buying end either, simply because they don't care.  If something goes wrong with my credit/debit cards, my bank/credit card company is going to fight for me to get that money back.  PayPay certainly isn't.

Fair point.
95% of our business is via paypal. In most cases it's simply due to convinience for the client as it's a system that is widely used, you can get paid for services via paypal, and you can pay for your services via paypal. If it made financial sense not to offer it at all, I'd definitely do everything direct with my bank. Unfortunately it's not quite THAT simple when it comes to paypal.

 

[cubixcloud]

You do have an alternative to Stripe, which would be Authorize.Net. We've used Authorize.Net for almost 10 years at OCOSA and have not had one issue. They have a powerful control panel that allows you to run reports, search for suspicious transactions, unsettled transactions and even process credit cards using their virtual terminal in the event your billing system is offline. They also have their Fraud Detection Suite which is an addon. If interested we would be glad to send you our affiliate link.

 

[qps]

www.cdgcommerce.com is who we use.  Been with them since 2004.  They have Quantum Gateway / Quantum Vault modules for WHMCS.  Quantum Vault is nice because the CC number never touches your WHMCS database.  It stores the CC in their system and uses a token to charge the customer each month.

The fees are a bit higher than Stripe, but we usually win chargebacks.

 

[ryanarp]

So far we have had 1 chargeback from Stripe. We didn't mind the fee, however it was a eye opener.  For those considering braintree that used to have google checkout. Not sure how they verify, I signed up without and just sent a message asking if they will honor it. 

Google Checkout Merchants get a lifetime discounted price:

2.7% + $.30 per transaction

 

[dcdan]

How do you folks win a chargeback when you do not have customer's signature on file?

 

[qps]

How do you folks win a chargeback when you do not have customer's signature on file?

Assuming your billing system supports it, checking the box "I agree with the Terms of Service" or something to that effect is sufficient for most chargebacks.

 

[amhoab]

I'm looking at using Balanced as a payment gateway.  It seems that they don't charge if you win a chargeback, either:

https://support.balancedpayments.com/hc/en-us/articles/200135910

 

[Nett]

Same thing with 2CheckOut, that's why I love PayPal better.

 

[DomainBop]

So far we have had 1 chargeback from Stripe. We didn't mind the fee, however it was a eye opener.  For those considering braintree that used to have google checkout. Not sure how they verify, I signed up without and just sent a message asking if they will honor it. 

Google Checkout Merchants get a lifetime discounted price: 2.7% + $.30 per transaction

That's a discounted rate?  Get a real merchant account and you can lower your rates to 1.95%-2.2% + $0.10-$0.25 per transaction for online transactions depending  on who you choose (and your credit history, volume, etc).  If you do any kind of volume the lower rates will more than pay for the gateway fees, statement fees, and million and one other fees that card processors like to nickel and dime you with.

95% of our business is via paypal. In most cases it's simply due to convinience for the client as it's a system that is widely used

I'm assuming most of your clients are consumers and not actual businesses.  PayPal (and paying by CC through their  their guest checkout) is an inconvenience (and screams unprofessional) to businesses that pay for their purchases with a company credit card.

 

[ryanarp]

That's a discounted rate?  Get a real merchant account and you can lower your rates to 1.95%-2.2% + $0.10-$0.25 per transaction for online transactions depending  on who you choose (and your credit history, volume, etc).  If you do any kind of volume the lower rates will more than pay for the gateway fees, statement fees, and million and one other fees that card processors like to nickel and dime you with.

I'm assuming most of your clients are consumers and not actual businesses.  PayPal (and paying by CC through their  their guest checkout) is an inconvenience (and screams unprofessional) to businesses that pay for their purchases with a company credit card.

Discounted for those who insist on using BrainTree. I agree going through a real merchant account will get much lower rates. 

 

[cubixcloud]

 I agree going through a real merchant account will get much lower rates. 

+1 This makes the best sense and works if you can negotiate with your merchant provider. There will always be those that prefer to pay with PayPal or another way however.

 

[drmike]

I have almost completely stopped doing business with "companies" that only accept PayPal.  The companies with actual merchant accounts probably aren't going to fold one night and take my money with them.

Well tit-for-tat... I deal nearly solely with companies that DO ACCEPT PAYPAL.

Last thing I want is my debit/credit card info floating around come next hack of a data provider or that cute boutique web store.

Mind you, I hate PayPal probably more than most, but hard to argue about it's footprint and wide adoption online.

 

[qps]

Be careful with a merchant account.  The rate they advertise does not count all of the extra fees they tack on.

Also, pretty much every card (rewards cards, business cards) now are at the "Non-Qualified" rate, which adds an extra percent.

 

[Nick_A]

Your.

That is all.

/contribute

 

[WSWD]

Well tit-for-tat... I deal nearly solely with companies that DO ACCEPT PAYPAL.

Imagine going to McDonalds or something, buying a couple hamburgers and seeing PayPal on your credit card statement instead of McDonalds.  Sorry, but it just has unprofessional written all over it.  You have a "company" who can't or won't get their own merchant account?

Please note the difference I've made several times already in this thread..."companies" that ONLY accept PayPal are different than say Amazon who ALSO accepts PayPal for client convenience.  I don't trust companies who ONLY accept PayPal or Stripe or Square or whatever as far as you can throw them.  I just don't.  Why would any legitimate business not have a real merchant account?

Last thing I want is my debit/credit card info floating around come next hack of a data provider or that cute boutique web store.

I personally don't care.  I don't care who gets a hold of my credit card information, because my bank stops the fraudulent charges.  They've done it 4 or 5 times so far, and I'm sure will continue to do so.  So for me, it isn't a big deal.  I'd rather have my local bank fighting for me, than some technician in India who could give two shits about me or my money.

 

[SkylarM]

Imagine going to McDonalds or something, buying a couple hamburgers and seeing PayPal on your credit card statement instead of McDonalds.  Sorry, but it just has unprofessional written all over it.  You have a "company" who can't or won't get their own merchant account?

You're comparing a physical product with a virtual product. Paypal is considered the "norm" in online transactions. Most people have a paypal account and/or deal with paypal on a regular basis.

Not accepting Paypal in the lower-end hosting industry is comparable to only accepting cash payments at a McDonalds, you end up cutting out quite a bit of business that you cannot afford to lose out on.

I agree it looks far more "professional" to have a proper merchant and accept cards locally and being PCI compliant and all that jazz, but your AVERAGE webhost in the low-end sector doesn't have any of that, and wouldn't likely be able to reliably secure your personal information (IE the cVPS hack, or any of the other WHMCS related hacks where the CC information AND CC hash has been stolen).

HUGE companies such as Amazon, Newegg, etc offering paypal for convenience but not as their primary payment gateway makes sense. Fact of the matter is, the expectation in the low end sector is to run off of Paypal. If you expect paypal to be there, then you're likely going to use it for convenience and piece of mind. Should it be the ONLY payment gateway? No. Will it be the vast majority of your payments unless dealing with larger contracts or businesses as opposed to the end-consumer in the low end market? Sure.

Am I willing to trust a low-end provider with my credit card information? Hell no. I'll trust my datacenter with that information, but not a company selling primarily cheap end Virtual Private Servers. There's piece of mind knowing a low-end provider uses something that doesn't store credit card information locally but passes it via JS to a service that handles all of the security features for the company I am purchasing from.

We offer a Credit processing payment option for those that do not wish to use Paypal, cannot use Paypal, or prefer to deal with cards rather than accounts such as with paypal. We're all about options, but expectations are that paypal ends up being the most used gateway as it's essentially an industry standard. If you use our credit processing then GREAT, I am very glad we are able to offer you an option. If you use paypal, that's great too. Either way we're getting paid and you're getting a service.

TL;DR: Paypal is the accepted industry standard in the hosting industry, specifically talking the low end sector where you're buying cheap end VPS, renting dedicated servers, not paying for colocation with a datacenter. Sure people use other methods, but the vast majority is paypal.

I don't have a merchant account through my banking institution. Am I not a legitimate business? If so, what makes me non legitimate compared to your company?

 

[drmike]

 personally don't care.  I don't care who gets a hold of my credit card information, because my bank stops the fraudulent charges.  They've done it 4 or 5 times so far, and I'm sure will continue to do so.  So for me, it isn't a big deal.  I'd rather have my local bank fighting for me, than some technician in India who could give two shits about me or my money.

Well once is too many times.  There are forms to fill out, delays in getting new card, just a whole bunch of wasted time processes.  Plus who knows what fallout to credit or other things.

I've never thought of such as a good time.  Plus doesn't your bank charge you for each incident?  Many do.  $50 or something for the hassle of being victimized.

Banks don't care about your money Neither does Paypal.

 

[WSWD]

Well once is too many times.  There are forms to fill out, delays in getting new card, just a whole bunch of wasted time processes.  Plus who knows what fallout to credit or other things.

I've never thought of such as a good time.  Plus doesn't your bank charge you for each incident?  Many do.  $50 or something for the hassle of being victimized.

Banks don't care about your money Neither does Paypal.

My bank definitely cares about my money.  Between the business account and my personal accounts, there is a good chunk of change in there.  They treat me like royalty.  Nope, no charges or anything like that, and credit fallout?  They just shut the charges down before they are even processed.   Not sure what that would have to do with my credit.  Have never filled out a form.  Just a quick phone call.  And I'm happy to say, none of the incidents have ever come from using my credit card online.  They were from physical businesses, like gas stations, restaurants, etc. 

 

[WSWD]

I don't have a merchant account through my banking institution. Am I not a legitimate business? If so, what makes me non legitimate compared to your company?

That's certainly the impression it gives a lot of people...trust me.  Again, you're dealing I'm guessing with mostly low-end folk and folks buying services for their personal sites, who are used to buying things online with PayPal...they probably don't care.  I have dealt largely with local businesses (small to huge), etc. for almost 20 years, and I can guarantee you, probably 99.9% of them would NEVER go through PayPal to pay us.  In fact, most normal brick and mortar businesses don't have PayPal accounts tied to their business cards, etc., and they would wonder the exact same thing I brought up earlier..."What the hell kind of business is this if all they use is PayPal?"  Imagine if I couldn't process their credit cards in our office, or accept checks from them?  They'd walk right out the door. 

 

[MartinD]

There is always PayPal Pro Merchant accounts....where people don't even see PayPal when you use them for card transactions.