amuck-landowner

The Confederate battle flag.

texteditor

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I don't see what the big damn deal is about the flag. I have no idea why it's been banned from sale from so many places. I do not see what the destruction and vandalism of statues and monuments honoring the dead do.

Racist implications aside, flying the flag of a failed secession 150 years after the fact is weird and fucked up
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
Racist implications aside, flying the flag of a failed secession 150 years after the fact is weird and fucked up
No racist implications made, I am not certain where you got that from my previous short response. I guess nowadays everyone is a racist until proven liberal not racist. :)

Kidding aside, it's isn't uncommon for people to be proud of there heritage. Same reason Texans are proud of their past and will proudly display this with their use of flags. The south does the same. Since only 6% of people owned slaves in the south it seems that most people probably were not celebrating slavery and rather their independence, even if brief, from the north. Just seems the flag represents an independent rebel like ideology more than it does anything else. But I don't know. I'm just a white guy so I am part of the problem I guess because hundreds of years ago a very small portion of America owned slaves. ;)
 
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Aldryic C'boas

The Pony
I have both Confederate and Soviet flags (along with my US service flag) hanging in my workshop.  I like having a mixed, rich heritage.

Though if a rebel flag automatically makes you racist, and a Soviet flag makes you communist (all are equal/etc)... do they cancel each other out? :p
 

mitgib

New Member
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I was a little surprised to learn the flag was never the flag of the CSA, only a battle flag used by the confederate Army.

 

Jonathan

Woohoo
Verified Provider
Racist implications aside, flying the flag of a failed secession 150 years after the fact is weird and fucked up
Folks not from the South, and especially those outside the US generally don't understand it.  While sure some groups will use this flag for their weird and obnoxious "causes", to most it's indeed simply just used to show you're proud to be a southerner.  While all of America is split up into states, "the South" tends to be oft referred to as it's own being and the flag just goes along with that in a sense.

Really hard to explain :p

EDIT: Just to insure nothing is confused, to me and most others the flag has nothing to do with racism but is purely a display of pride in being Southern, nothing more.
 
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wlanboy

Content Contributer
The flag is the perfect distraction for the USA.

It is so much easier to talk about a flag and not about the reason that some thinks that it is ok to kill people.

Everyone is talking about the flag, some are talking about guns, ...

I regular visit the US and I do have some friends in NY/MA/DE and whenever I am talking to them they say that they are fed up with all the topics serving only to maintain a false morality.
 

MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
I love the intimidation factor...fitting when discussing the Confederate battle flag and its history.
Burning the flag of any nation in front of a group of people who served in that country's military and fought for them is not a good idea... The reaction was very tame all things considered. The burning of the flag should be considered a violent act just as pissing on the grave at a veteran's cemetery should be. Regardless of your beliefs it is extremely disrespectful. There are a lot of things I disagree with in this country, and I am not a fan of our military presence world wide either. But if I went outside and started burning American flags I would be happy if all I got was a punch in the face.

This is some hilarious liberal group that no one can remember the name of that was trying to do something to 'get heard'. Their group and main cause is to 'disarm' the NYPD. Seriously. It's a group that thinks police officers in America's largest city should not have guns or weapons on them. Comically, after people started getting upset that Freddie Gray died in Baltimore police have stopped entering these horrible slum, ghetto crime ridden areas. The murder rate in the city has increased by 48%. 150 people have been murdered in that city alone this year. NYC would turn into Honduras as far as murder rates go in the course of a month if the NYPD was 'disarmed' like that group wants. That group is a joke.
 
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Vega

New Member
I cant say I am too offended by someone 'disgracing' the flag. I remember someone got mad because I refused to stand up and do the pledge of allegiance.
 

k0nsl

Bad Goy
I'm not even American and I feel pretty queasy at people such as yourself. You deserve to live a few years in Tunisia or Syria under the circumstances which prevail there at the time of writing this. Perhaps then you could learn to appreciate America, or what's left of it anyway  :mellow:

I cant say I am too offended by someone 'disgracing' the flag. I remember someone got mad because I refused to stand up and do the pledge of allegiance.
 

HN-Matt

New Member
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Slavery has existed for much of history and you'd be hard pressed to find a non slave owning or enslaved group.

Eradicating slavery should have always been a priority of civilized people.
 I'm no historian and this was only gleaned from wikipedia, but I find it fascinating that Mexico 'officially outlawed' slavery in 1829 (36 years prior to America) and were basically punished with the annexation of Texas for it. If the American civil war was fought a few decades earlier (in political step with Mexico's abolition of slavery) it seems possible that Mexican Texas wouldn't have ever become part of America.

Austin feared that [banning slavery] would cause widespread discontent and tried to suppress publication of it. Rumors of the new law quickly spread throughout the area and the colonists seemed on the brink of revolt. The governor of Coahuila y Tejas, Jose Maria Viesca, wrote to the president to explain the importance of slavery to the Texas economy, and the importance of the Texas economy to the development of the state. Texas was temporarily exempted from the rule.[36] On April 6, 1830, Mexican president Anastasio Bustamante ordered Texas to comply with the emancipation proclamation or face military intervention.[37] To circumvent the law, many Anglo colonists converted their slaves into indentured servants for life. Others simply called their slaves indentured servants without legally changing their status.[38] Slaveholders wishing to enter Mexico would force their slaves to sign contracts claiming that the slaves owed money and would work to pay the debt. The low wages the slave would receive made repayment impossible, and the debt would be inherited, even though no slave would receive wages until age eighteen.[39] This tactic was outlawed by an 1832 state law which prohibited worker contracts from lasting more than ten years.[40] A small number of slaves were imported illegally from the West Indies or Africa. The British consul estimated that in the 1830s approximately 500 slaves had been illegally imported into Texas.[41] By 1836, there were approximately 5,000 slaves in Texas.[42]
 
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DomainBop

Dormant VPSB Pathogen
NYC would turn into Honduras as far as murder rates go in the course of a month if the NYPD was 'disarmed' like that group wants. That group is a joke.
The group that wants to disarm NYC cops is less of a joke than the group that wants to fire corrupt NYC cops.  Crime rates with 49,000 disarmed cops policing the streets would still be much lower than they would be if the NYC police force was reduced to less than 1,000 honest armed cops if the "fire the corrupt cops" group and their buddies at internal affairs got their way and got rid of all the corruption in the police department.   :p

The flag is the perfect distraction for the USA.
It is so much easier to talk about a flag and not about the reason...
 The "ban the confederate flag" bandwagon is a definite media distraction and really does nothing to address the underlying problems. Eliminating the flag is unlikely to have any meaningful effect on reducing racism or preventing the next massacre in this country.


The US corporate media has largely ignored the fact that racism is just as bad (and in many cases worse) in areas of the north where the Confederate flag has never flown as it is in the south.  From extremely segregated urban areas (metro Detroit, metro Washington DC are good examples) to racial/ethnic/religious profiling by police departments that target entire groups of people based solely on their race or religion. The NYPD is a perfect example of this with its racially targeted stop and frisk program (which the courts ruled was unconstitutional), and its surveillance of virtually every Muslim (and anyone who looked "middle eastern") in the city under Emperor Bloomberg and his  former police commissioner Ray Kelly (as a side note: Kelly's biggest achievement as police commissioner was making a rape complaint against his son go away).
 

HN-Matt

New Member
Verified Provider
On this you judge an entire ethnicity and religion? The notion that Jews are sexual sadists comes from Medieval anti-Semitic legends, later amplified by the Nazis.
Oh calm down, they can't top de Sade.
 
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Vega

New Member
I'm not even American and I feel pretty queasy at people such as yourself. You deserve to live a few years in Tunisia or Syria under the circumstances which prevail there at the time of writing this. Perhaps then you could learn to appreciate America, or what's left of it anyway  :mellow:
I honestly cant appreciate a country that is so out of touch and broken as it is. Gay Marriage is what we're fighting over and a flag when we have freaking Is growing daily.

I am not proud to be amaerican lol

I do appreciate the work many soldiers who have died for my freedom and safety but I am not proud to be apart of this country and how ignorant we are as a people.
 

AuroraZero

Active Member
OKay I will say this one more time and only one more time.

I may not agree with what you have to say or do, but I will defend to the death your right to say or do it.

With that being said you could not give me a slave. You literally could not even give me money to take one. No man has the god given right to own another one. That is not the issue I have with any of this at all. I do not care if that flag meant that every person in the world would be enslaved to a cruel death for flying it, it should still be legal to fly it and no one should censor that. When I say no one I mean not Nascar, not State govt., not even God himself should censor that.

Yes I am a Christian and I do believe in God and in Christ, and I still feel this way. Also though people that do these things must be prepared to accept the consequenses of their actions. Just like if some one burned or disgraced a flag in my presence they would then earn themselves the reward of two broken arms and legs. I tend to take my symbols seriously. That one is one you do not piss with as my father, grandfather, and great grandfather all faught to keep that flag flying as a symbol of our freedom here.

Do not even think about disgracing it, or my god, or be willing to face the consequences of your actions. This country was founded on certain principles and people have forgotten them. I am beginning to think it is time they are remin ded of them again.

Okay enough of my blathering back to my solutide. Happy 4th to anyone and everyone that wants to have one.
 

Aldryic C'boas

The Pony
This country was founded by slave owners that wanted to stop paying tribute to the monarch across the pond.  If you *really* want to get pedantic with it, you could even say that this country was founded on the same principles that the flag burners are exercising - freedom from a governing body they believe to be corrupt.
 
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AuroraZero

Active Member
I agree totally with you @Aldryic C'boas and as such I exercise my right to bust their arms and legs. I am not saying the system is perfect but if they do not like it then do something to change it. Burning the symbol people use for freedom is not the right thing to do in my book. Especially when you happen to live in said country, and enjoy the same freedom the symbol is suppose to stand for in the first place.

At least that is how I look at it. I am sure others see things differently, but then again that is one of things that makes America what it is today. The freedom to have your own insights and opinions, and they do not have to be like mine and no, we do not have to fight over them.
 
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