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WebHostingTalk Worst of the Hosting Industry

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
hahahaha absolutely atrocious. Douchebag American Exceptionalism at its worst and most unwittingly self-parodic best! LET is really going down the shitter lately, reads like a predictable congregation of dbags in almost every thread now. Bunch of middle aged men ganging up on people and circle jerking with their lil lapdogs 'Thanking' their posts at climax, hilarious.  :)
Who wrote this real benefit piece part @HN-Matt?
 

Dillybob

New Member
As far as OnraHost goes:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1405098

I am meh about their claims of profitability with WHT stickies. Owned hardware or not....  They are pushing small few dollar transactions.  Unsure what the sticky costs in Reseller category currently but talking about quite a few sustained purchases to even break even.

- from their recent LEB offer.

20 x $4 a month for Xen 512MB = $80 income on a server.  Yeah that's sustainable even if you own your own equipment... not.

Onra has a sticky for reseller hosting that smells like GVH offers - throwing everything in the universe in the offer.  But oddly, is not a Premium or Corporate member. (strange new world of WHT? maybe...)

Not saying Onra runs a bad show or anything, but, numbers are numbers.  Markets are markets and the buyers are pretty darn predictable on what most buy and why they buy.
As I said before in my LET topic replying to that raging extremist: He is clouded by the amount of money he has invested into WHT to see the light out of his own ideology views. He is basically stuck in WHT ideology land. He hasn't even argued back countering 1 benefit and why it's actually beneficial, but instead keeps on attacking my personal character (Ad-Hom) which gets him nowhere. And he talks about sticky threads and how they are SO beneficial for his hosting company which isn't even a corporate benefit....   :lol: 

And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!

I'm positive we'll start getting WHT horror stories here soon :) Don't be scared to speak up about it (if you're an ex-WHT member and you see this thread!)

Edit: The sad thing is, you cannot really blame him. WHT does a decent job at manipulating hosts, and even their philosophical views.
 
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drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!


I'm positive we'll start getting WHT horror stories here soon :) Don't be scared to speak up about it (if you're an ex-WHT member and you see this thread!)


Edit: The sad thing is, you cannot really blame him. WHT does a decent job at manipulating hosts, and even their philosophical views.
Again, at last glance, I don't think he's even a paid member.  Guess I didn't realize that anyone can advertise and buy stickies without membership.  Quite a unique little mess in my mind.

ROI could be there, but talking about tons o' sales a month.   Cheap sells and most of what I glanced was retarded cheap ala lowend pricing on his stuff.  Later when I get some time I'll rip offers apart and post numbers....  I am spent this shift :)
 

raindog308

vpsBoard Premium Member
Moderator
Unsure what the sticky costs in Reseller category currently but talking about quite a few sustained purchases to even break even.
My data is a year old or so but in 2014 it was $150 in Reseller and $200 in shared hosting.  $600 for VPS and $1000 for dedicated.

And those are weekly rates.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7993889/forum/1%20WHT%20Pricing%20Doc%20%2811%29.doc

vpsbflag.gif
 
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Dillybob

New Member
My data is a year old or so but in 2014 it was $150 in Reseller and $200 in shared hosting.  $600 for VPS and $1000 for dedicated.


And those are weekly rates.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7993889/forum/1%20WHT%20Pricing%20Doc%20(11).doc

vpsbflag.gif
Thanks for this.

Again, at last glance, I don't think he's even a paid member.  Guess I didn't realize that anyone can advertise and buy stickies without membership.  Quite a unique little mess in my mind.


ROI could be there, but talking about tons o' sales a month.   Cheap sells and most of what I glanced was retarded cheap ala lowend pricing on his stuff.  Later when I get some time I'll rip offers apart and post numbers....  I am spent this shift :)
Hmm. I'm assuming the sticky threads in the dedicated forum would be $995 a week, and then $600 on top of that if you're a host offering Dedicated and VPS. You're looking at around $1595 (this is not including shared hosting or other sticky additives) a week.

That seems to me, like your company better be pushing some high  margins...  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:
 
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DomainBop

Dormant VPSB Pathogen
Thanks for this.

Hmm. I'm assuming the sticky threads in the dedicated forum would be $995 a week, and then $600 on top of that if you're a host offering Dedicated and VPS. You're looking at around $1595 (this is not including shared hosting or other sticky additives) a week.

That seems to me, like your company better be pushing some high  margins...  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:
The big question for providers, which is unanswered by just looking at the prices on the WHT ad rates sheet, is how the ROI for WHT advertising spending compares to the ROI for alternatives like Google Adwords (which has been decreasing for years for advertisers in every category), Facebook, other industry forums, etc.
 
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Dillybob

New Member
The big question for providers, which is unanswered by just looking at the prices on the WHT ad rates sheet, is how the ROI for WHT advertising spending compares to the ROI alternatives like Google Adwords (which has been decreasing for years for advertisers in every category), etc.
Yeah, good point. I could see the ROI be higher as a provider if they only spends $995 for that sticky thread, but if they can get just 5 people to sign up with a dedicated server of atleast $60 a month...  In 1 year that would generate $3600 in revenue. So now that I think of it, it might be worth it by doing it every NOW and then.

Good point and thanks for not resorting to ad hom attacks.  Very good point now that I think of it. Although, these numbers  are just thrown up from my ass, and I'm sure there are numerous other factors that go into it.  (Does that user actually sign up for that dedicated server for a year?, How many actually sign up? Profit Margins? Paying the DC, (maybe even royalties), taxes, etc) Basically all the provider's business expenses need to be taken into consideration before we can justify if the ROI via WHT is good or bad.   And yeah, you are persuading me quite good, not going to lie. Still not convinced yet though.
 
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Dillybob

New Member
DillyBob,

WHT is a business.

Regards,

A business that misleads it's visitors by offering corporate member titles that are not checked for quality insurance. Especially when they are hosts that are advertising a service within  WHT. That's not a business, that's called fraud. Regardless if it's a public service or private entity.
 
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zed

Member
I completely missed where they made claims you proved fraudulent, was that bit in the video?

(not a lawyer, not even an internet lawyer)
 

Dillybob

New Member
I completely missed where they made claims you proved fraudulent, was that bit in the video?

(not a lawyer, not even an internet lawyer)
GreenValueHost was just one example. Looks like they took cared of them after they had their run misleading thousands. 
 
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HN-Matt

New Member
Verified Provider
I just really want to warn hosts that are thinking of the benefits, they are worthless.  I explained each individual benefit in my video and gave reasons why.
Corporate membership is legit (it exists and many people pay that crazy high $1800 annual amount) and it's overpriced vs. benefits and so called features.
There are benefits to membership :) ?
A very basic economic analysis (and basic decision making science) is the cost-benefit analysis. Private sector wishes the maximize profit. Public sector (ignoring all the "tinfoil hat" people who say the government is out to get them) wishes to maximize benefit. Some would pay $5,000 for "Platinum Corporate" if it was offered just for the sake of being the "Platinum Corporate member" even if it offered no benefits other than a different badge.
I just want my video to WARN other hosts that these benefits (and they will take them for what they are worth) are not worth it whatsoever, except for the ad-posting time interval one from 7 days to 3.  I still believe all the other benefits are horseshit and I'm very firm on that belief.
My video is more geared towards how the benefits are garbage, but, I did talk about this towards the end of it so I totally understand where HalfEatenPie is coming from.
I'd say only about 5 minutes were babbling, unless, ofcourse you honestly believe their corporate benefits are worth something of value besides the ad decreasing post time one.
As I said before in my LET topic replying to that raging extremist: He is clouded by the amount of money he has invested into WHT to see the light out of his own ideology views. He is basically stuck in WHT ideology land. He hasn't even argued back countering 1 benefit and why it's actually beneficial, but instead keeps on attacking my personal character (Ad-Hom) which gets him nowhere. And he talks about sticky threads and how they are SO beneficial for his hosting company which isn't even a corporate benefit....   :lol:
Hrm, after careful analysis it seems that WHT's corporate membership badges are actually not beneficial and, in fact, do not provide any benefits at all. I was on the verge of upgrading my account, but after reading this thread have chosen not to. Thank you.
 

host4go

Member
Verified Provider
Well written but I think you should consider the following.


If the average hosting customer buying process was the one you described as the one it should be, to the point that you believe that who doesn't follow that process are to blame for being "tricked" into buying hosting for less serious hosting companies, then, WHT corporate account value would drop to almost nothing.


WHT make an effort for the forum visitors to look at Corporate account holders differently. WHT do want buyers to believe Corporate accounts are the "[serious ones". Should we expect differently? No. WHT is a business.


You say checking a company takes time and requires staff. True.


But if SSL companies can do it for 400$ I am pretty sure WHT can do it for 1400$.


It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Have you ever gone thru a similar process?
 

HBAndrei

Active Member
Verified Provider
I've said this before on LET, if WHT were to vet corp members as you guys want it to (aka company check), then GVH would have passed with flying colors, because as far as I know they are a legit registered company... are they not?

So this means other type of vetting, what would that be? based on the amount of clients complain regarding your company? based on your company's quality? I think it's all too subjective for anyone to be the judge of that.

PS: I'm not taking sides here, my questions are genuine, I want to know everyone's input on the matter.
 

Tyler

Active Member
And yeah, I'd honestly love for a start up host to try out a corporate membership plan and see how far they get. That $1,440 start-up guide and an advertisement on HostingCatalog would definitely help them! Go for it!
For a while I had a physical copy of this "guide" on my desk - it's 10 pages of the WHT kool-aid, explaining how keyword alerts work, something about the badge, and some other useless stuff. It's light on information and heavy on the word count. 
 

Tyler

Active Member
Playing devil's advocate (I actually agree with the points you mentioned)

You say checking a company takes time and requires staff. True.
But if SSL companies can do it for 400$ I am pretty sure WHT can do it for 1400$.

It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Have you ever gone thru a similar process?
Being a discussion forum is WHT's main business. Their operations include creating new content, moderation, and driving new users to their site. These SSL companies have SSLs as their main business, where operations include vetting EV requesters and providing support. In other words, vetting these people is a significant part of their business operations and they've likely streamlined a process for it.

On the other hand, the question remains: why can WHT not dedicate a few people to the vetting process? Part of their moderation style takes on significant vetting and research regardless... I am not sure why it cannot be tied in.
 

host4go

Member
Verified Provider
Playing devil's advocate (I actually agree with the points you mentioned)


Being a discussion forum is WHT's main business. Their operations include creating new content, moderation, and driving new users to their site. These SSL companies have SSLs as their main business, where operations include vetting EV requesters and providing support. In other words, vetting these people is a significant part of their business operations and they've likely streamlined a process for it.


On the other hand, the question remains: why can WHT not dedicate a few people to the vetting process? Part of their moderation style takes on significant vetting and research regardless... I am not sure why it cannot be tied in.
WHT does not create content, they rely on their users to create content that in turn will attract other users.


If you complain, and some have (check the topic about corporate account prices going up), WHT moderators will reply to you that if you are not happy then you should be the one creating content for WHT, after all you are complaining about the lack of it.


Surprising reply? Yes! But true.


Setting up a process to verify businesses is easy. Too much really.


WHT just haves 0 interest in turning sales away for the sake of their "community"
 
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Tyler

Active Member
WHT does not create content, they rely on their users to create content that in turn will attract other users.
WHT & associated parties do create content. Here is a short list of places that they do create content on:

Keeping users engaged in a forum is not as simple as setting it and forgetting it. There is a lot of work behind the scenes that goes on.
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Well written but I think you should consider the following.


If the average hosting customer buying process was the one you described as the one it should be, to the point that you believe that who doesn't follow that process are to blame for being "tricked" into buying hosting for less serious hosting companies, then, WHT corporate account value would drop to almost nothing.


WHT make an effort for the forum visitors to look at Corporate account holders differently. WHT do want buyers to believe Corporate accounts are the "[serious ones". Should we expect differently? No. WHT is a business.
A business has the legal and moral obligation to protect consumers.  Even one who claims to be a neutral publisher, non caring conduit or mall landlord. Those who don't eventually get federal government attention and beaten royally for running a fraud dumping ground.

As-is, what WHT mainly is = a non stop toilet roll of OFFERs.  These offers, mainly for hosting, are littered with companies who aren't serious, aren't going to good by customers, etc.  It's made worse by the super low barrier of entry which has guys spinning up shell companies to make offers on there for less than $100 plus a cup of time to populate their account for offer posting privileges.

Guys shell co all over WHT all day long.  I see guys with many brands and unrelated otherwise.  I see foreign brands ala reseller nested idiot claiming to be USA this and that but the formatting of the address is all messed up and total clues to me about it being shade tree operation.

All of this drives up the need for WHT to be murderously harsh about multiple accounts and other matters to filter the gene pool a bit to cut down on level of stupid.

Some guys have determined that the whole paid account is a surefire way to dupe customers into trust scenario.  It obviously works for the membership side and even that was recently scammed by a bunch of hosts with stolen account upgrades.  Paid accounts should meet some criteria.  If it is hard for a just started shop to meet the level of the bar, then oh damn well.  Sure big USA mega hosts will pass whatever test with flying colors as they are: 1. incorporated  2. have actual phone number  3. are credit worthy (usually)  4. have employees   5. have legitimate office space  6. probably registered with the BBB, etc.   

Why should there be a barrier to new hosts?  Because most businesses fail within the first year and these business are very often these days about unsustainable pricing to grab marketshare, a practice that just doesn't tend to pan out resulting in mass failures.

WHT knows they should be doing better on account vetting. Corporate almost certainly doesn't want the liability matter either side.

As is, they should just do away with memberships, and make every offer a fixed fee to post.  $5-20 per offer.   Plus define the offers and must include details better.  Cause big picture, that's all the memberships are about for most guys.  Crafting fake benefits is pretty tired and obvious.
 
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