Why Don't Providers Do This One Simple Thing ... To Make More Money?

[drmike]

I've been a customer of so very many companies.  

Big common shortfall that annoys me monthly and which I just can't understand why providers don't see it:

WHY DON'T YOU ACCEPT PRE-FUNDED ACCOUNTS?

This is to say, accepting deposits of funds.

Every month I have a basket of invoices that show up, repeat invoice email annoy, etc.   I am more than glad per se to put money in my account which later months draw from, but no one default supports it.  Ticketing and proposing such is just awkward.

I can almost guarantee better retention and happier customers where pre-funded and self service pre-funded accounts were a normal cart / client management area feature.

Someone find a WHMCS feature or module to do this and tell everyone about it

 

[host4go]

Never experienced such an issue. There are allot of provider that allow you to prefund your account.


And even more providers that allow you to create subscriptions instead of manual payments.


Who have you been working with?

 

[Criot]

WHMCS has an add funds feature, maybe the providers you've been with don't use it? Most providers allow subscriptions and the adding of funds as well, and there is a setting in WHMCS for invoices to automatically take those funds to pay for them.

 

[Servers4You]

We don't allow subscription currently, however we do allow clients to add money to their account.

We are looking into starting PayPal Pro so automatic CC captures can be taken so clients don't have to log into their account each time, they just need a Debit/Credit Card on file so we can do automatic payments - not sure if it's well worth it, however we can try, we welcome feedback, so let us know if you'd recommend this option.

 

[KuJoe]

Like already mentioned, this is a default feature in WHMCS and enabled by default so if your provider doesn't allow it they manually disabled it.


This tutorial should work for any WHMCS install that allows it: https://securedragon.net/clients/knowledgebase/189/HOW-TO-Add-funds-to-your-account.html

 

[Munzy]

Personally I think this is a terrible idea considering *ahem* query *ahem* foundry *ahem* wouldn't allow you to take excess funds out of an account and instead stole money.

Do you sense any anger.... I feel like the whole room just got 100 F hotter..... woo, gotta leave now.

 

[drmike]

Personally I think this is a terrible idea considering *ahem* query *ahem* foundry *ahem* wouldn't allow you to take excess funds out of an account and instead stole money.

Do you sense any anger.... I feel like the whole room just got 100 F hotter..... woo, gotta leave now.

Ahh who stiffed you Munzy ?  The Cloudshards folks?  Do tell.   Stealing part is troubling.  Legitimately stolen from?

I am not intending on going crazy depositing free welfare handouts for providers to ahh theft, but rather just some future funding for the trustworthy proven companies (ones I've been with for over a year).

 

[KuJoe]

Be very careful about pre-funding accounts since most providers (us included) don't give refunds for voluntary payments (i.e. adding funds to accounts for later).

 

[Sam]

Be very careful about pre-funding accounts since most providers (us included) don't give refunds for voluntary payments (i.e. adding funds to accounts for later).

Doesn't WHMCS by default state no refunds on the "add funds" page?

Possibly the reason why some providers don't allow it is because they don't want to have refund requests for transactions that were months ago.

 

[host4go]

Doesn't WHMCS by default state no refunds on the "add funds" page?

Possibly the reason why some providers don't allow it is because they don't want to have refund requests for transactions that were months ago.

No, it´s a TOS related issue.

 

[jarland]

I've seen, in the past, some odd correlation between pre-funding and abuse. Have other providers seen this?

 

[KuJoe]

I've seen, in the past, some odd correlation between pre-funding and abuse. Have other providers seen this?

I have seen this also in the past but not so much this year. Clients used to pre-fund their accounts with stolen credit cards or Paypal accounts, then ask to have the funds refunded to another Paypal account after some time has passed and when Paypal no longer allows processing refunds and before the original credit card/account holder notices.

The problem is, after XX days most payment processes do not allow issuing refunds so we are required to manually send the payments (in most cases, over Paypal) which means we have to eat the fees ourselves and if we send them a payment over Paypal and they chargeback the original payment then we are out the fees + the refunded amount + the original payment + the chargeback fee which adds up to hundreds of dollars pretty quickly.

 

[DomainBop]

WHY DON'T YOU ACCEPT PRE-FUNDED ACCOUNTS?

This is to say, accepting deposits of funds.

The providers who do encourage it (encourage = offering incentives like deposit $50 receive $25 extra) are usually doing so out of desperation to cover short term cash flow needs.

I've seen, in the past, some odd correlation between pre-funding and abuse.

See my last statement. I've seen some definite odd correlations between pre-finding incentives and abuse by providers with crappy business plans who have one foot in the dead pool  . Account pre-funding often goes hand in hand with offering unsustainable annual plans.

I can almost guarantee better retention and happier customers where pre-funded and self service pre-funded accounts were a normal cart / client management area feature.

For monthly bill paying convenience I prefer automatic credit card billing (especially with providers like Nephoscale who bill bi-weekly) over depositing funds because I get to keep the money in my account until it is due. 

For hourly "cloud services", automatic billing on set dates (like Nephoscale) also eliminates the risk of running out of funds that you have with a provider who requires you to maintain a credit balance to keep your services running (like Vultr),

The problem is, after XX days most payment processes do not allow issuing refunds so we are required to manually send the payments (in most cases, over Paypal) which means we have to eat the fees ourselves and if we send them a payment over Paypal and they chargeback the original payment then we are out the fees + the refunded amount + the original payment + the chargeback fee which adds up to hundreds of dollars pretty quickly.

General rule of thumb is only issue refunds for credit card transactions to the original card.  9 times out of 10 if you issue a refund to an alternate means (sending a paper check, sending a PayPal payment) you'll get hit with a chargeback on the original transaction by the unscrupulous buyer .

 

[Wintereise]

Personally I think this is a terrible idea considering *ahem* query *ahem* foundry *ahem* wouldn't allow you to take excess funds out of an account and instead stole money.

Do you sense any anger.... I feel like the whole room just got 100 F hotter..... woo, gotta leave now.

Voluntary pre-funding is NOT refunded, yes -- this is not just us, if you read up you'll see other people doing the same. Additionally, most of our brands do not accept pre-funding PRECISELY for this reason.

No money was stolen, it's still in your account as credit. If this is not the case, please get in touch and it will be made right.

WHY DON'T YOU ACCEPT PRE-FUNDED ACCOUNTS?

 

 

Because of this (^), someone appears to always be waiting around to tell you that you 'stole' their money.

 

The extra accounting hassle for customer balance, as well as management of the funds based on the customer's whim is simply not something that makes sense for most smaller providers. Easier to simply turn it off, and set up recurring CC payments.

 

To add to this, when you take 'credit' -- you lose the protection Paypal/gateways provide when you sell a virtual service. Monetary credits if disputed usually always end up going to the buyer's side (Added to what @KuJoe provided...), and suddenly you're slammed with hundreds of dollars in loss.

 

It might make sense when you have so much VC money that you literally couldn't care less, but for people less fortunate with funding -- I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

 

[concerto49]

I have seen this also in the past but not so much this year. Clients used to pre-fund their accounts with stolen credit cards or Paypal accounts, then ask to have the funds refunded to another Paypal account after some time has passed and when Paypal no longer allows processing refunds and before the original credit card/account holder notices.

The problem is, after XX days most payment processes do not allow issuing refunds so we are required to manually send the payments (in most cases, over Paypal) which means we have to eat the fees ourselves and if we send them a payment over Paypal and they chargeback the original payment then we are out the fees + the refunded amount + the original payment + the chargeback fee which adds up to hundreds of dollars pretty quickly.

That's not even the main problem (it's a problem, but well...).

The main problem it's ALWAYS 100% disputable and will and can happen. What do you tell Paypal or the credit company? They purchased credits? For what? It's not even non tangible. It's "nothing". WHMCS makes this worse. The system makes invoices go mad and it's very hard to trace how the "credits" are used. Unless you have a full proof way to explain that x credit is used for invoice a, b and c etc it'll get no where. It's open for abuse.

We plan to have this feature later - when we can automate it right down to the very last rule to make this less error prone and susceptible to abuse but until then no thanks.

 

[drmike]

I've seen, in the past, some odd correlation between pre-funding and abuse. Have other providers seen this?

Yeah, well not directly, obviously... But it's rather common among spammers to pre-pay and drop a big cash chunk in your bank ahead of their antics.  They are a generous group per se in that regard, as you apply defacto forfeiture of those funds upon their mess making.

 

[drmike]

. What do you tell Paypal or the credit company? They purchased credits? For what? It's not even non tangible. It's "nothing". 

Not picking at you here, just the general concept of intangible.

Same cloudy definition of delivered nothing can be applied to probably half of the economy these days.

Bought any service that isn't per action inventoried and tracked = same boat.  Subscribed to any service for TV that doesn't track and report activity, same boat.  Bought Bitcoins, same thing.

Then again, what percentage of all transactions are just transactions with no tangibles in larger economy?  Stock market, commodities, futures, etc.

Often the problems I see down here in hosting small shop world is addressed in the big corporations and traditional networks in other ways.

I rather like the pre-funding option.  My inbox likes it also and my lack of free time likes it  Makes accounting, budgeting and planning easy.  All the problem side of things, don't apply in my instance - I know the providers per se as a customer and they know me.  Not future fund take-back either.   Just means I throw $50 over there, another $50 over there and coast for a while with email that equals a receipt and a bill.  I simply set reminder to self fund the account based on monthly invoice vs. funding.

Plus it makes it easier where I am monkey in middle with customers or third parties who ultimately owe the bill.

Something like this math:

3~ emails per month (bill, maybe reminder, then receipt from provider)

1-2 emails or other interactions with clients on the billable

1 receipt of the payment client side

= 6 points of disruption minimum.  

x 12 months = 72 points.

Gets busy, noisy, PITA real quick when multiplying it by other folks.

 

[mitgib]

The providers who do encourage it (encourage = offering incentives like deposit $50 receive $25 extra) are usually doing so out of desperation to cover short term cash flow needs.

This statement I feel is very true, but I would like the option in WHMCS to provide a discount if paying via X funding source(Bitcoin)

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

This statement I feel is very true, but I would like the option in WHMCS to provide a discount if paying via X funding source(Bitcoin)

An actual discount wouldn't really be possible without a complete re-write of the invoice pages.  But it would be trivial enough to credit the account in question a percentage or flat rate when payment was made with a particular gateway.

 

[joepie91]

When I'm eg. going on a holiday, I usually just put in a ticket asking to pay ahead for a service. Most providers have no issue sending an invoice for a few months at once, in my experience.