Ferguson - No Indictment

[ihatetonyy]

You sound like you are trying to describe an angel. Well, this “angel” of yours harassed a clerk, robbed the store and beat up a policeman, and he was such an “angel” that a policeman felt it necessary to draw his gun to put an end this “angel’s” life What an “angel’! — a burglar, wife beater and petty thief

I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.

You quote the word angel as though I'd said that? I don't see where I did.

Harassed a clerk and robbed a store - I said that. Didn't try to get around it. One crime does not a gangster make. No criminal record in sight.


Don't know where he beat his wife, a link would be nice.


And here's the result of his vicious attack on a police officer:






I really hate razorburn, too. Side-note: anyone remember the orbital blowout fracture hoax?

 

[k0nsl]

ihatetonyy,

You clearly have basic English and I don't feel like wasting more of my time with you because it will lead to nowhere. Been there, done that

Plus, I always seem to come off as if I'm “super angry”, when I'm not. I just say what I think without sugar-coating any of it.

Feel free to paint him in a more positive light if you want to, but it won't change a thing. I actually feel a little bad for Mr. Brown being (ab)used in this manner, and I'm sure if he was still around he'd pistol-whip both you and me!  :lol:

Have a great day.

[edit]

His tweets are very revealing, by the way. « Tall nigga short temper »...touché!

 

[tonyg]

I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.

Dude, you don't get it.

Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown.

What people are having a hard time was the officer's use of deadly force on an unarmed person.

 

[k0nsl]

I know that, @tonyg. I see a small number of people trying to minimise the whole thing, others are trying to use it as a platform to push for their own agenda(s): thus (ab)using the death of Mr. Brown, and others are trying to make it seem like all of this was some kind of evil ‘racist’ policeman killing this poor, poor downtrodden Mr. Brown out of pure joy, perhaps even out of spite...or something along those lines.

I'm out for now. Have a nice day.

Dude, you don't get it.

Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown

 

[ihatetonyy]

ihatetonyy,


You clearly have problems understanding [or comprehending] basic English and I don't feel like wasting more of my time with you because it will lead to nowhere. Been there, done that


Plus, I always seem to come off as if I'm “super angry”, when I'm not. I just say what I think without sugar-coating any of it.


Feel free to paint him in a more positive light if you want to, but it won't change a thing. I actually feel a little bad for Mr. Brown being (ab)used in this manner, and I'm sure if he was still around he'd pistol-whip both you and me!  :lol:


Have a great day.


[edit]


His tweets are very revealing, by the way. « Tall nigga short temper »...touché!

Frankly I'm sad it took two posts to shake someone from replying. Please leave feedback so I know how to string these replies out just a few posts longer before I get someone exasperated at continuing a conversation.


Also your link doesn't work, and if noting the lack of a criminal record and Darren Wilson's razor burn paints him in a positive light, so be it. Sorry to come in and ruin the thread with what came out of the GJ process.

 

[k0nsl]

Not sure if this is true about our angel, but here it goes:

Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…

Charles Johnson, Editor-in-chief of GotNews, filed a lawsuit in St. Louis seeking the release of Michael Brown’s juvenile criminal record, claiming they no longer need to be kept private. Johnson says law enforcement told him that Brown’s juvenile arrest record contains a second-degree murder charge and information linking him to the notorious Crips street gang.

From AOL News:

“To find out if those police officers are correct requires seeing Brown’s juvenile arrest record, which ought to be freely available given that he is dead and therefore has no right to privacy remaining,” insists Johnson.

“Knowing the truth about Brown’s past will help us gauge the credibility of his parents and family who have called him a ‘gentle giant.'”

Attorney Johnathon Burns, who is arguing the case, told KMOX that since the teen is deceased, his records are no longer sealed.

Source(s):
Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…

Lawsuit seeking release of Michael Brown's juvenile records claims slain teen was a murder suspect

 

[ihatetonyy]

Not sure if this is true about our angel, but here it goes:

Source(s):Breaking: Explosive lawsuit reveals Michael Brown’s juvenile record has charge for Second Degree…

Lawsuit seeking release of Michael Brown's juvenile records claims slain teen was a murder suspect

Old news. Johnson is the same hack that helped spin the false orbital blowout fracture story. His lawsuit flew back in his face:
http://news.yahoo.com/lawsuits-seek-michael-brown-juvenile-records-052626893.html

The 18-year-old fatally shot by a suburban St. Louis police officer didn't face any juvenile charges at the time of his death and never was convicted of a serious felony such as murder, robbery or burglary, a juvenile court system lawyer said Wednesday.


Those details emerged at a hearing in which two media organizations sought the release of any possible juvenile records for Michael Brown. An attorney for the Brown family called the effort to get the records "shameful" and motivated by "character assassination."


Cynthia Harcourt, the St. Louis County juvenile office's attorney, offered the most specific public details on whether Brown faced legal trouble before his 18th birthday — a subject of intense speculation in a case that has garnered global attention. The 45-minute hearing before a St. Louis County family court judge didn't reveal whether Brown had ever been charged with lesser offenses as a juvenile, or charged with a more serious crime that resulted in a finding of delinquency — the juvenile court equivalent of a conviction.

Surprised to see they didn't retract or update at YoungCons after the suit came back considering that kind of a misleading headline would be considered libelous if he weren't dead.

 

[drmike]

Hey, we weren't all at Mike Brown's unfortunate murder scene.  We are all armchairing it.

Mike Brown on store video was mega bad.  Looked some some thefting going on there.  Definitely put some hands on and intimidated store clerk.  Not a good way to generally interact with other humans.

Store workers need better understanding at law.  If someone steals, robs, intimidates to said degree, I find no problem in them protecting theirs and shooting whoever is the threat, regardless of color, gender, beliefs, etc.  VERY dangerous work environments in urban environments.  Death by clerk might have been less bullshit, rioting, bad behavior, police on hot seat.

Darren Wilson's injuries, they don't look bad.  IS there a medical report somewhere in there?  Could be that the fellow isn't a sweller.  Then again Wilson isn't a small boy either.  He's 6ft 3+ and well over 220 pounds.  If he was getting bare handed punched in the face by a 300 pound 18 year old he should have have way more damage than photos show.

But a cop need not take an ass kicking first before using force.

The police department however, they need multiple legal ass kickings.  Should start with forced hiring policies so the police department resembles the community it serves.   Woman, people of other skin tones, etc.

I found the number of shots fired excessive.  I also found Wilson's ABC News interview disturbing.  Namely the part where he describes blindly shooting while in his car, while supposedly being swung at by Brown.  Shells had to be flying all over the place, in the neighborhood, etc.  That's very very bad.

Many PDs pack hollow points for maximum effect and less damage when straying.  Wondering what ammo he was firing.

Hollow point shots to a human don't take many hits to get the point across.  They blow big ugly bloody holes in folks.  1-2 tops is all you need, if the person is even then alive - they are brutal shots, outlawed by international treaties for war supposedly and formerly labeled cop killers as criminals packed them back in the 1990's in a big way.  Was Wilson not firing hollow points? 

---------------------------------------------------------------

There are multiple fundraisers for the small businesses in Ferguson over here:

http://www.gofundme.com/

If you are in the giving mood, tis the season...

http://www.gofundme.com/huiz2o

http://www.gofundme.com/hunocc

^--- store where it all started

http://www.gofundme.com/nataliescakesnmore

http://www.gofundme.com/htk4zo

http://www.gofundme.com/htnohk

http://www.gofundme.com/htw6ls

http://www.gofundme.com/beautyworld

^--- Beauty World which was hit multiple times.

http://www.gofundme.com/hu8z10

^--- real sad one

http://www.gofundme.com/hw0di4

^--- Deandre Joshua - 20 year old killed during the rioting in Ferguson - shot dead in his car.

 

[drmike]

Some updates on things that happened and weren't mentioned here overnight.

- Black church set on fire - unclear when.

The black church set on fire supposedly was the church Mike Brown attended.

The leader of the church had received something like 70+ death threats and the FBI was supposedly investigating. So much for the FBI protecting anything...  The leader there was asking the community to exercise restraint and be peaceful.

Peace and restraint are justification to commit felonies in the hood - arson.

 

[drmike]

Sad, but this is the deceased.  We can chalk it up as youthfulness, trap culture, etc.  But I know better,  I've known a thousand like-Mikes in my years.  He's speaking of the streets, his street, of the neighborhood, his 'hood.  He's talking about what his eyes have seen and what his heart desires, about his mama and about life where he lives.  It isn't fiction, it's hell.

It is the same rampant violence, intimidation, drugs, treating women like dogs, punking everyone that isn't your direct people. 

He wasn't rapping about becoming a big boy and working.  He was talking about violence and victimizing folks.  He wasn't talking about love and caring, the polar opposite.

There is a saying 

Live by the sword, die by the sword

Body Baq Big'Mike 

https://soundcloud.com/bigmike-jr-brown/body-baq-bigmike-ft-two-cupz

Someone needs to look at Ferguson and all the free cash money they collect for housing Section 8, HUD and other freebies, especially in high density apartments and high crime areas.   Like many places I am sure Ferguson is getting paid big time and has high priority on these dense areas and continues to allow said areas to be rough, tumble and broken.  Localities love the broken doleouts of big money.  IN many ways leadership of these towns enable and foster the criminality.

Glad I don't own a business in Ferguson or I'd have five different universities crunching data and making the links - pre-suit.

 

[MannDude]

Dude, you don't get it.


Nobody here is defending the actions of Michael Brown.


What people are having a hard time was the officer's use of deadly force on an unarmed person.

Unless police forces start hiring psychics, they will never know who is armed and unarmed.


It is reasonable to assume however, that the same quality of individual who would strike you with his fists during something as routine as saying, "Hey, get out of the middle of the road" is likely the same quality of individual who may... just maybe... be armed.


Fists can be just as deadly as a gun and fists alone can and often does warrant the use of lethal force. Watch these videos below: (Waning, graphic)

How about the 'knockout game', that was seemingly popular for a while within a particular segment of our population. The goal of the game was to knock out a random stranger on the street with one punch. Several people died. The attackers all likely unarmed. In one case in Florida, a man asked another, "Are you carrying a gun?" and when the man said no, the other punched him in the face full force.


So, yes, Michale Brown was 'unarmed'... but unarmed doesn't mean any less of a threat. It's unfortunate that he made the decisions he did that lead to his death.

EDIT: And speaking of fists being deadly, front page of imgur right now: http://imgur.com/gallery/JzNpG Unsure of the source since people on imgur and reddit lie all the time for 'karma' or whatever, b

 

[ihatetonyy]

Store workers need better understanding at law.  If someone steals, robs, intimidates to said degree, I find no problem in them protecting theirs and shooting whoever is the threat, regardless of color, gender, beliefs, etc.  VERY dangerous work environments in urban environments.  Death by clerk might have been less bullshit, rioting, bad behavior, police on hot seat.

Absolutely agreed. Would have brought the store owner under fire, but nipped the rest of this in the bud.


FWIW, the store owner says he didn't even bother to call the police - a customer did. So either he didn't care enough or was afraid to. That serves as no justification to what Brown did, of course.

Darren Wilson's injuries, they don't look bad. IS there a medical report somewhere in there? Could be that the fellow isn't a sweller. Then again Wilson isn't a small boy either. He's 6ft 3+ and well over 220 pounds. If he was getting bare handed punched in the face by a 300 pound 18 year old he should have have way more damage than photos show.

In the state's autopsy Brown weighed in at 6'5", 289lbs. Wilson self-identifies as 210 pounds but says it "fluctuates between 205, 212, 213, something like that."


Here's Wilson's medical report. (PDF warning.) He was prescribed Naprosyn (Rx grade Aleve) and diagnosed with a bruise.


Pertinent part:




This has been brought up in some outlets after the jury dump in part to dispel the myths that spread around the wingnuttosphere about orbital blow out fractures, and in part to contrast to Wilson's claim of an attack at all or one that was significant.

The police department however, they need multiple legal ass kickings. Should start with forced hiring policies so the police department resembles the community it serves. Woman, people of other skin tones, etc.

Unfortunately once you start saying things like this you get screams of 'affirmative action' and that just tears the whole plan to bits. Any federal action to the like would spawn some great blog posts about Obama forcing the issue to be about race, though..


Bonus round:

• The Post reporting that Wilson:
  

  ..returned to the police station unescorted, washed blood off his hands and placed his recently fired pistol into an evidence bag himself.
  
  
  Those actions, described in grand jury testimony, violated protocols for handling a crime scene and securing evidence, according to experts in policing procedures and Justice Department documents.
  
  
  Wilson’s movements after the shooting were among a number of police actions in the aftermath of Brown’s death that experts said were unusual. The grand jury transcripts revealed, for example, that the officers who interviewed Wilson immediately after the shooting did not tape the conversations. The transcripts also showed that an investigator from the medical examiner’s office opted not to take measurements at the crime scene and arrived there believing that what happened between Brown and Wilson was “self-explanatory.’’

• Vox reporting today that the GJ was deliberating for two months under an outdated law:

  Before Wilson testified to the grand jury on September 16, prosecutors gave grand jurors an outdated statute that said police officers can shoot a suspect that's simply fleeing. This statute was deemed unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 1985; the court ruled that a fleeing suspect must, at least in a police officer's reasonable view, pose a dangerous threat to someone or have committed a violent felony to justify a shooting.
  
  
  Prosecutors, who had full control of the evidence presented to the grand jury, took more than two months to correct their mistake, O'Donnell said. The prosecutors on November 21 — just three days before the grand jury reached a decision — gave the correct standards to the grand jury. But as O'Donnell explained, the prosecutors didn't specify what exactly was wrong with the outdated statute — and they didn't even clearly say, after they were asked, to the grand jurors that Supreme Court rulings do indeed override Missouri law.

 

[tonyg]

@MannDude when it comes down to it, anything is deadly given enough time/force/quantity.

Heck, there was a lady that died from drinking too much water after a radio held a contest to see who could drink the most water.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/#.VHfIzlTkc7A

The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.

 

[drmike]

^--- I agree 100% with @ihatetonnyy.  Good finds there my friend!

There are abnormalities in case handling on this one.  No doubt.  

I am unsure if Ferguson PD is dirty or just inept or a healthy mix of both.

Affirmative action isn't my thing, but, government job rolls should kind of resemble the communities they serve.  Numbers I've see on racial and gender division of Ferguson don't even come close in PD rank and file.  Then again, that remains the story all over the United States.  It isn't that they can't find women and black men to be police.   Good ole boys just aren't making it real friendly place for either.

Run through the rest of the local judicial system and will likely see the same ugly disproportionate representation of OLD WHITE MEN in charge.

Perhaps it's time we all start bitching and driving their unions in the head.  They are supposed to represent the workers and be all about fairness (COUGH).

The outdated statute and the Grand Jury, well if that is all indeed true, someone should be able to bypass that prosecutor and seek indictment from a grand jury in another county in Missouri.  Jury pool there locally is tainted big time after all that has happened.

 

[DomainBop]

Affirmative action isn't my thing, but, government job rolls should kind of resemble the communities they serve.

Some government jobs, not all.  It doesn't matter whether a clerical worker who spends their days holed up in an office processing building permits reflects the community or not or lives in the community, but government workers like police should reflect the community, and I'm a long time proponent of residency requirements for police officers (and for an opposing viewpoint to mine, here's a good article by someone who presents some data that questions the effectiveness of residency requirements http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/reexamining-residency-requirements-for-police-officers/ )

 

[drmike]

The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.

Punches are no joke.   Ask two pro boxers to fight bare fisted.  They won't do it.  I surely don't want to take a punch.  Of course I have little interest in gun fire receipts either.

Guns are necessary at times and last line of defense.

Force is force and is a guessing game about outcome when you are in a hostile situation.  I've been in situations too many times.  I could have justifiably shot someone to death multiple times.  I managed to avoid that, thankfully.

I would have liked to have seen less lethal force used with Mike Brown.  Why?  Not because Mr. Brown was an angel or a demon, but because police in the USA have a very bad problem with dishing out violence.  There are tons of people every year beat down, shot, injured, etc. by police gone crazy.

Some of those folks signed up for some heavy action by trying to wrastle with the copers.  Others were outright crime victims.  Mike Brown?  Hard to still say what all happened and backfill the story.

With all the dash cams and other cams.  It's a little strange the situation and lack of more camera evidence.

And, yeah, the whole walking in the middle of the street.  That is how people walk in said housing communities I've known of.   The sidewalks tend to be busted up and somewhat unsafe.   Beyond that, street walking has whole other commerce side and social aspect in such places.

Usually PD will come by, tell folks to get over  to sidewalk (usually walking side of the lane is sufficient).  Then they drive off and come loop back around to check on people they just "warned".  So something happened right there that had the officer stuck on Brown like that.

All the rioting in the world won't make life fair. In fact it just made life a lot more unfair for small business folks barely scraping by, folks who probably had nothing to do with such.  Folks in these communities must do better for themselves, for their families.  They need to participate in the community, open their own businesses, and run for public offices.

A black renaissance is good for everyone. It is hyper local.  It is long overdue.   Like overdue since Martin Luther King was murdered.  I am not talking about rap games here, fake recording studios and diversified drugs sales.  I am talking about real businesses and services the people need (restaurants, groceries, clothing stores, hardware stores, bakeries, lawyers, doctors, etc.).

 

[ihatetonyy]

@MannDude when it comes down to it, anything is deadly given enough time/force/quantity.

Heck, there was a lady that died from drinking too much water after a radio held a contest to see who could drink the most water.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/#.VHfIzlTkc7A

The problem is that the chances of dying from a gun shot vs the effects of a puch are skewd just a bit to one side.

 TSA has the right idea.. police need to arrest anyone with more than 3.5oz of liquids for their own safety.

The outdated statute and the Grand Jury, well if that is all indeed true, someone should be able to bypass that prosecutor and seek indictment from a grand jury in another county in Missouri.  Jury pool there locally is tainted big time after all that has happened.

 Gov. Jay Nixon had his chance to and didn't take it. As a member of the Democratic Party he's already dead in the water on the national stage; there's nothing for him to gain if he convenes another Grand Jury and he'd stand to lose what little political capital he has left no matter where the second GJ goes.

STL Public Radio expands on the outdated statute much more than Vox does -- I should have linked that from the get-go.

That said, Newsweek called the outcome of the GJ proceedings rather well given McCulloch (the prosecutor)'s personal and professional history -- especially when one looks at the relative lopsidedness and out-of-the-ordinary structure of the grand jury proceedings.

The officer’s testimony, delivered without the cross-examination of a trial in the earliest phase of the three-month inquiry, was the only direct account of the fatal encounter. It appeared to form the spine of a narrative that unfolded before the jurors over three months, buttressed, the prosecutors said, by the most credible witnesses, forensic evidence and three autopsies.

But the gentle questioning of Officer Wilson revealed in the transcripts, and the sharp challenges prosecutors made to witnesses whose accounts seemed to contradict his narrative, have led some to question whether the process was as objective as Mr. McCulloch claims.

No one will ever be satisfied on either side. The idea of releasing all of the documents was, presumably, to grant an air of legitimacy to the proceedings, but the more people dig in, the more interesting stuff they find.

 

[drmike]

What remains striking is the prosecutor using that invalid statute.  

But more striking, the prosecutor's father was a police officer killed by an armed black man back when he was 12 years old.

No way this fellow should have been involved in this case.  No way he couldn't be internally conflicted and highly probably to be biased and exercising from perception.

 

[blergh]

 

[texteditor]

You sound like you are trying to describe an angel. Well, this “angel” of yours harassed a clerk, robbed the store and beat up a policeman, and he was such an “angel” that a policeman felt it necessary to draw his gun to put an end this “angel’s” life  What an “angel’! —  a burglar, wife beater and petty thief 

I cannot understand why any sane man or woman would defend this “angel’...oh well, so it goes.

No, he was definitely a criminal, just, ya know, not criminal enough to the degree where a hail of bullets is necessary