LowEndTalk Thoughts

[Marc M.]

I think you should chill You have your own forum, which is great, but we don't need to hear about it here in this thread. Lets keep the crap that went on over at LET stay there.

@MartinD I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.

 

[SeriesN]

@MartinD I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.

Oh no! Oh my gawd, you are going to complain to his boss so he gets fired?0_0. how could you?

Gee, really mature. Ehem ehem. You are taking everything too seriously. Chillux.

 

[MartinD]

Not sure how many threads you think I've closed? 1 was in the for sale section because, uh, the items were sold. That's it, actually. I haven't closed any others. I haven't yet intervened in anything as a moderator - no-where have I come in with a big fat boot and starting shoving any weight around. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start accusing others.

Lastly, you can say whatever you like to Curtis. We've known each other for a loooong time so it will make zero difference to me. He is far from being my boss - I'm here to help out where I can and ensure things stay on track.

If you feel that strongly about vpsBoard not being for you... the close button is only a click away.

 

[HalfEatenPie]

@MartinD I was hoping to have a normal and civilized conversation, and for the most part it was. You closed my other thread, and I see you closing threads left and right and intervening all the time as a moderator isn't a good thing. I'm going to talk to Curtis about it as we don't need another "mpkoseen" here as they have on LET. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community. We only have one community, I hope that you realize that. Lets do something and keep it together, otherwise it will be this community versus what's left of LET.

Hey there marcm!  

If you could please expand upon which threads were closed that you have issues with please let us know and I guarantee you we can all give you explanations as to why they were removed!  I personally have tried to state why a certain thread is being closed before closing it.  

I don't see MartinD turning into a mpkoseen and probably discussing more directly with him about your issues related to him is probably a better way to do it.  I mean this seriously isn't a battle of who is better friends with MannDude.  

Edit: I've probably closed more threads than MartinD.  Majority of them are when they're reported by either the original poster or when the moderation team agrees that it has gone off topic from what it was supposed to be.  It's all in the logs.  I hope that clears a few things up!

 

[Marc M.]

Not sure how many threads you think I've closed? 1 was in the for sale section because, uh, the items were sold. That's it, actually. I haven't closed any others. I haven't yet intervened in anything as a moderator - no-where have I come in with a big fat boot and starting shoving any weight around. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start accusing others. Lastly, you can say whatever you like to Curtis. We've known each other for a loooong time so it will make zero difference to me. He is far from being my boss - I'm here to help out where I can and ensure things stay on track. If you feel that strongly about vpsBoard not being for you... the close button is only a click away.

@MartinD who needs to chill now? Defending the forum is an admirable quality, being overzealous is not. I've tried to tell you this, but if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Curtis and what he has to say about me and then you may understand where I'm coming from. That's all I meant when I said that I was going to talk to Curtis.

 

[MartinD]

I'm perfectly chilled I'm simply saying if you don't like it, you have the choice to move on, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[SeriesN]

@MartinD who needs to chill now? Defending the forum is an admirable quality, being overzealous is not. I've tried to tell you this, but if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Curtis and what he has to say about me and then you may understand where I'm coming from. That's all I meant when I said that I was going to talk to Curtis.

 

[Marc M.]

I'm perfectly chilled I'm simply saying if you don't like it, you have the choice to move on, nothing more, nothing less.

@MartinD I joined this place pretty early on and I think I'll stay.

 

[mikho]

@MartinD. As far as "my forum" is concerned about 20 people joined that I will be redirecting over here if the consensus is that it should be closed because I am part of this community.

Maybe this isn't the right forum to discuss if you should close your forum or not. That question should be answered by the users on your forum. No one else.

 

[Marc M.]

Maybe this isn't the right forum to discuss if you should close your forum or not. That question should be answered by the users on your forum. No one else.

@mikho You pretty much hit the nail on it's head with your statement. I think that sometimes people like to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. That's not my forum by the way, it was meant to be a community project meant to help people from LET move on to something else and I was looking for people to get involved and help me run it. I posted another thread with MannDude's permission and @MartinD closed it. Since I don't want to go against the will of the majority I wanted to know what everyone else thinks. However one or two members don't represent the majority, even if they're louder. If someone else is interested in helping the community at LET move on and has a good solution for it then I'm all ears. You have to realize that many folks won't move along if they are slightly comfortable with the forum that they're currently logged into. Instead of arguing about this we should all work together. The community on LET has been split apart for a long time and couldn't agree on anything, I think that at least now we should all be united.

 

[MartinD]

Which thread are we talking about here?

Edit: Found it. It was closed because it was simply another thread about the same forum you started a thread about previously. It was going nowhere.

 

[blergh]

@Mun,  - I am trying to build a place for those who won't come here (maybe as a bridge). I've called it BudgeHostingTalk.com

I lol'd

Your last forum/site was "shut down" due to "vanilla being shit" and now you're back again with vanilla and a new domain? Good job son, good job.

 

[Chronic]

You have to realize that many folks won't move along if they are slightly comfortable with the forum that they're currently logged into. Instead of arguing about this we should all work together. The community on LET has been split apart for a long time and couldn't agree on anything, I think that at least now we should all be united.

Take your statement and apply it to this asylum you are trying to get going. Your solution of getting people out of the LET comfort zone and into VPSBoard is to have them join a third forum with the same comforts? I don't see how you're achieving anything here, but moving members from one location to another, yet no closer to VPSBoard. Sometimes to teach a man how to swim, you have to throw them in the water.

 

[AnthonySmith]

My 2c on this matter while trying to ignore the drama developing in this thread is that I was fairly annoyed when I found out that CC owned LET for the following reasons:

1) Because Joel used a good deed to profit from and ruined the original spirit of LEB, while actively doing as little as possible.

2) Because I then found out that the advertising money I had been paying was going to CVPS.

3) Because Joel went psycho at me for daring to say that LET+B had turned completely commercial and that they could not bring back any community spirit in to the place while actively making it as commercial as possible in order to sell it.

4) Because CC said that they never lied about it because no one asked which is like sleeping with your wifes sister for a year then when your wife finds out blaming her for never asking.

Then I had a think about it and though.. meh I don't care, now it is all out in the open at least it will get some direction, I have no doubt Liam can take it forward well on behalf of CC and it seems that CVPS was never the actual owner it is just that CC and CVPS are in bed together which I also am fine with everyone has preferred business relationships, so my final thoughts were.. OK fine LET/B is just a commercial board with a forum instead of pretending to be a community primarily while taking $10k p/month in revenue.

I am fine with the way LET/B is now, it is just business and that is the way I will approach the place now, no different to WHT, just a smaller version with a slightly different format, I never depended on the place but I would be lying if I said it is not worth advertising on it, I will take part in relevant topics, comment where I want and use it to drum up more business.

There is no alternative to LEB/T v1, the vision LEA had was unique at the time and cannot be recreated so I treat this place as 70% community / 30% business, while WHT/LET/B is 90% business / 10% community

I don't hold any bad feelings towards the current owners but I think Joel is a dick, and that is my business opinion you don't want to hear my personal one.

 

[Marc M.]

Which thread are we talking about here?

@MartinD This one: http://vpsboard.com/index.php?/topic/341-lowendtalkin-is-back-this-time-we-did-it-right/

And I wanted to bring to your attention that this is something that happens very often on WHT and nova days on LET. Let threads run their course until they go off topic, then close them. I didn't get to post a reply but it doesn't matter because I've kind of lost my enthusiasm for it. Sometimes not doing anything is better than getting into arguments with people. I'll do my part in letting people know about vpsBoard and will put in my LET sig as well. That's about all I can do so that I won't upset a few folks here.

Your last forum/site was "shut down" due to "vanilla being shit" and now you're back again with vanilla and a new domain? Good job son, good job.

@blergh Yes, I took it down. Vanilla comes very poorly set up out of the box, so I worked extra hard to properly secure it. Also this time I did set it up using Nginx. Last time it was setup on Apache and Varnish cache and I didn't update the Varnish rules. The other reason why I took it down was because people were coming over asking if the site is also owned by CC. Well, it's wasn't. However I've lost my appetite for that little project at this point. Since it was meant for the community and the community is not very interested in it, I don't see why I should continue to fight for it.

Sometimes to teach a man how to swim, you have to throw them in the water.

@Chronic that's true.

 

[Marc M.]

My 2c on this matter while trying to ignore the drama developing in this thread...

@AnthonySmith, I for one don't want to contribute to it so I decided to walk away. Sometimes it is better to just give in and let go. The natural order of things always develops on its own so neither of us here has any control over what will happen. I think that it's better to just sit back, relax, and let nature run its course (as natural as this digital world can be of course )

...I was fairly annoyed when I found out that CC owned LET for the following reasons

I've joined LET around the time that the DDoS attack happened (back in March 2012) while LET was hosted on Linode. Now that I've started piecing everything together I wonder how much of that was true. I also remember "Chief" lamenting how awful the Linode experience was and how they didn't want to work with him in finding the attacker. I don't know, but for some reason I doubt that there was an attacker because immediately after that the site moved to CC, then not long after that the competition for free for 6 months CC server took place and so on. Now CC doesn't have DDoS mitigation either, but for some reason LET wasn't taken down by anyone. Maybe I'm wrong about all of this, but seeing how sneaky "Chief" was, this could have been as good of an excuse as any other to move the site to CC (along with LEB of course).

I was never interested in the internal affairs of LET/LEB so my impression looking from a distance always was that Chief is serving a small group of providers while doing his best to throw the rest under the bus.

3) Because Joel went psycho at me for daring to say that LET+B had turned completely commercial and that they could not bring back any community spirit in to the place while actively making it as commercial as possible in order to sell it.

If I could add a synonym for the word hypocrite to the English dictionary, then "Chief" would be it. My issues with him started because for 6 months LEB consistently ignored my offers, despite the fact that I was submitting them "by the book". So I've sent him a PM and asked him about it and he said to send it to him directly, which I did. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that it was the first time that anyone offered 1GB KVM for $7/mo. He probably didn't like it so two more weeks went by and he never got back to me, so when I PMd him directly asking about it, in a completely bipolar fashion he replied saying that how dare I ask him about it, after which he threatened not to post the offer. I said something to the effect of "sorry mate, I thought you said to send it to you and you would take care of it...", so he finally posted it. That was the only time I had an offer before @Liam took over.  I can honestly said that @Liam did way more for that community than Chief ever did, and if anyone should run things over there then it should be @Liam. Unfortunately he has bosses as well, so he can't make any decisions on his own.

I am fine with the way LET/B is now, it is just business and that is the way I will approach the place now, no different to WHT...

I don't care about its ownership, however the shady tactics that they employ are pretty disgusting, especially when they use their minions to attack someone that they don't like. I've seen a few people being cornered by their attack dogs before, and it isn't pretty. If you hang around that place it's better to keep a low profile. The general rule around there is that you can talk, troll and post stupid memes all day long, as long as you don't talk about your own hosting services, or about someone else's hosting services in a too positive way if they're not hosted with CC. And don't you dare point people to another forum, case in point: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/10762/is-let-dying-slowly

There is no alternative to LEB/T v1...

My interpretation of it was that LEA created it as a hobby. The only remnant of LEA's original ideology can be found here: http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/5-reasons-why-you-want-a-low-end-box/
Unfortunately a hobby should stay a hobby and considering today's economic realities no one should run a serious business on $7 or less plans unless they got it on a promotion. People should think before they buy that the provider has to turn a profit in order to effectively serve them. Otherwise it is no different than all the other ugly economic realities of our times (eg. sweat shops, outsourcing, cheap labor, etc.). While you're not sweating when you run a hosting business, you sure as hell better turn a profit if you want to stay afloat. Customer service, support, software all of this is added cost on top of the hardware. If LEA didn't want to do it any longer and "Chief" sold out, then maybe this mutation that LET/LEB has become should maybe move along and update its policies and guiding principles. I mean you can buy about anything, but for sure as hell you can't buy someone else's principles.

I don't hold any bad feelings towards the current owners but I think Joel is a dick, and that is my business opinion you don't want to hear my personal one.

We may never know the truth. Maybe LEA and Chief were together on it. Maybe not. There is no possible way that we can know. Oh, LEA posted "some strong words" trying to clear any blame off of him? Who cares. While I am not willing to dismiss any possibility, at the end of the day LEA will never match Chief when it comes to being a dick. Why I am saying this? Simply because LEA should have asked the community who to pass the torch on when he decided to call it quiz. It's something that not of you have thought about, but if the whole thing was meant to be non-profit that would have been the right way to proceed. Even better, he should have created something like a committee of people, an uneven number of administrators that would have taken care of it. Just my two cents.

By the way, if you still need up to date Xen rpms, I moved the repo http://repo.phoenixrpm.com

 

[WelltodoInformalCattle]

TL;DR?

 

[Marc M.]

TL;DR?

@WelltodoInformalCattle you can always grab a bucket of popcorn when you don't have anything better to do

 

[Reece-DM]

Its always crossed my mind if the person who actually won the "kick-starter" was just really them giving it to no one.

Would explain why nothings happened, lets be fair it don't take months on end to plan a single server business. and yet were still seeing nothing.

 

[Francisco]

Its always crossed my mind if the person who actually won the "kick-starter" was just really them giving it to no one.

Would explain why nothings happened, lets be fair it don't take months on end to plan a single server business. and yet were still seeing nothing.

Don't break the kickstarters balls too much. He's genuinely a nice guy and I've chatted with him a few times when he's PM'd me.

I think the market went south far faster than he had planned putting him in an uneasy spot.

Tim & I did read over a lot of submissions and we both supposedly agreed to the same submission as the winner. The winners write up was quite solid and he had a great business plan. He figured it would take him a few months to get things squared away but the market turned into the 'most memory for the buck' stampede it is right now really fast.

Francisco