Ohh have any better devices?
NYPD have been stopping people and asking them to upgrade to iOS7
- Thread starter MannDude
- Start date
Hilarious. The fingerprint reader got "hacked" like a password gets "hacked" - they made a copy of the fingerprint and used it
. At this point you need access to the fingerprint to get through - doesn't seem very "hacked" to me. They haven't even shown that they can lift a print off of the iPhone to use, probably because it's not possible. Calling an iPhone a closed-source spy device is probably the best thing I've heard all day.
Keeping a massive database of ESNs that regulates network access is outside of Apple's scope as a company. I wouldn't expect them to do that. Carriers already do, but the list often isn't shared, although afiak they will blacklist stolen ESNs on the same network, so in theory your stolen device shouldn't be able to be activated.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
A hack is a hack. Regardless. Latent prints are all over the place. Probably possible to lift such from the device itself. Which would be like locking your car then taping your keys to the outside. As for another hack, just a matter of time. Anything one creates, another can and will undo.
Open source spy device, closed source spy device, they all spy. Trying to neuter the spying takes hacking to a whole new level. I for one have all but called it a day and shit canned these phones.
The carrier relationship with manufacturers is pretty tight and strange. If Apple didn't want their customer gettng iJacked by thieves, they'd mandate the ESNs be collected and double checked with iTreeHQ's before activation. Simple matter of contract and super simple to implement technically and business contract wise. A phone that can't be activated and which routinely phones home to iTreeHQ's shouldn't be hard to find, unless it is never turned on again nor never connected to a network (i.e. Hudson Bay drowning effect).
Open source spy device, closed source spy device, they all spy. Trying to neuter the spying takes hacking to a whole new level. I for one have all but called it a day and shit canned these phones.
The carrier relationship with manufacturers is pretty tight and strange. If Apple didn't want their customer gettng iJacked by thieves, they'd mandate the ESNs be collected and double checked with iTreeHQ's before activation. Simple matter of contract and super simple to implement technically and business contract wise. A phone that can't be activated and which routinely phones home to iTreeHQ's shouldn't be hard to find, unless it is never turned on again nor never connected to a network (i.e. Hudson Bay drowning effect).
Would you consider a car "hacked" if someone gets a picture of the key and makes a new one? http://lifehacker.com/shloosl-copies-your-house-keys-using-a-smartphone-photo-789114803
I wouldn't, and that's what this is. You have to take your key out to unlock the car, so someone can always get a picture of it.
The fact of the matter is that the fingerprint reader was never designed to be GOVERNMENT LEVEL SUPER-SECURITY IMPERVIOUS TO ANYONE TRYING TO BYPASS IT. It was designed for people who don't even have a passcode at unlock set at all, to encourage them to go from no security to some security, and help deter theft because of that. People like you misconstrue the entire idea.
Still laughing at calling them "Spy Devices"
It is an odd relationship - I don't blame Apple for not getting involved. For one, your view is incredibly shortsighted and US centric - what happens in other countries where cell phones are handled differently/carriers don't cooperate? What happens when someone is wrongfully banned? It'd take a lot of support and work on Apple's part for a job that should really be done by the carrier.
NYPD is involved in this because they deal with thousands of stolen iOS devices a month and spend millions on recovering them and processing stolen devices. An updated operating system that effectively deters device thefts will help people not get their devices stolen, and stop the NYPD from wasting their time looking for iPhones.
I wouldn't, and that's what this is. You have to take your key out to unlock the car, so someone can always get a picture of it.
The fact of the matter is that the fingerprint reader was never designed to be GOVERNMENT LEVEL SUPER-SECURITY IMPERVIOUS TO ANYONE TRYING TO BYPASS IT. It was designed for people who don't even have a passcode at unlock set at all, to encourage them to go from no security to some security, and help deter theft because of that. People like you misconstrue the entire idea.
Still laughing at calling them "Spy Devices"
It is an odd relationship - I don't blame Apple for not getting involved. For one, your view is incredibly shortsighted and US centric - what happens in other countries where cell phones are handled differently/carriers don't cooperate? What happens when someone is wrongfully banned? It'd take a lot of support and work on Apple's part for a job that should really be done by the carrier.
NYPD is involved in this because they deal with thousands of stolen iOS devices a month and spend millions on recovering them and processing stolen devices. An updated operating system that effectively deters device thefts will help people not get their devices stolen, and stop the NYPD from wasting their time looking for iPhones.
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How about creating a fake key from stolen data to enter the door?
That's like saying finding a key on the ground outside someone's house and then using it to enter their house isn't entering their house unlawfully.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Is theft materially different than hacking typically? Both tend to be criminal.
Lifting prints in case of investigation would be good work. In case of hacking, it counts as something.
If the prints unlock the phone which were lifted from, then that's a form of hacking no doubt.
Lifting prints in case of investigation would be good work. In case of hacking, it counts as something.
If the prints unlock the phone which were lifted from, then that's a form of hacking no doubt.
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jarland
The ocean is digital
Let's not diminish hacking to child's games just to justify a hatred of Apple. It's a bit too stereotypical of the Apple hater crowd to want to bend reality to fit it. No one has lifted fingerprints without permission and broken into a device that I've heard of. Setting out to copy a key that you own that isn't encrypted, that's hardly an accomplishment. If that's hacking, I can paste my password here and call myself a hacker.
Plain and simple, iPhone thefts result in police calls. It's productive to proactively attempt to reduce some of the less important emergency calls in a city that requires such an infrastructure. I'm not saying we aren't going to see that conspiracy one day, but this isn't it.
Plain and simple, iPhone thefts result in police calls. It's productive to proactively attempt to reduce some of the less important emergency calls in a city that requires such an infrastructure. I'm not saying we aren't going to see that conspiracy one day, but this isn't it.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just very odd to target this one brand of devices and advocate customers spend serious cash "upgrading". Maybe as a single product line, the iPhones are high in theft number (reason if so to not buy one). Have to be tons of Samsungs and other alterna phones boosted too.
I wouldn't expect NYPD to be allocating any real resources to tracking phones of any sort. Any real big city PD has plenty of real issues in never ending supply to deal with. Robberies, big thefts, violence, domestic incidents, etc.
Most folks out such a device would revert to various layers of insurance many have for replacement. In lieu of such or if not covered, it's reason enough not to invest such amounts of cash on a mere phone device.
This sort of stuff just doesn't happen in rural America.
I wouldn't expect NYPD to be allocating any real resources to tracking phones of any sort. Any real big city PD has plenty of real issues in never ending supply to deal with. Robberies, big thefts, violence, domestic incidents, etc.
Most folks out such a device would revert to various layers of insurance many have for replacement. In lieu of such or if not covered, it's reason enough not to invest such amounts of cash on a mere phone device.
This sort of stuff just doesn't happen in rural America.
jarland
The ocean is digital
If I had to make a guess, I'd say android phones aren't as hot items. Plain and simple, people don't openly, publicly place as much value on one single model. Then there's the fact that you can get one for free or close to it with contract, and most people can't tell a free phone apart from a $400 one because they don't know about cores, gpu, and ram. iPhone is a more specific phone , fewer models, all known to have high monetary value at their peak, and probably account for a lot of police calls.
It's all just speculation at the end of the day. Obviously they found it beneficial. It's not like they need your fingerprint. Most people have theirs on file anyway.
It's all just speculation at the end of the day. Obviously they found it beneficial. It's not like they need your fingerprint. Most people have theirs on file anyway.
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The majority of people who steal an iPhone aren't going to be determined enough to lift a latent print (which would probably be smudged. I can't see a SINGLE good clean print on my iPhone screen), make some sort of fake finger to apply the print to, and then get into the phone. No, instead they'll probably try and guess the simple 4-digit passcode. If your data gets wiped because you had that feature enabled, oh well. Or they'll reboot it into Recovery Mode and make it a clean install of iOS 7, which is what the whole push to update TO iOS 7 is about.
You'd be surprised. Just the fact that someone calls in to report their stolen iDevice takes Police Time and resources. Depending on the jurisdiction, it may be REQUIRED for an officer to go out and take a theft report. Due diligence. The "Find my iDevice" feature is VERY useful. I've misplaced my phone before, as have some of my friends and family. All it takes is opening the app/webpage and signing in to your Apple ID, and you can see where your phone is, you can lock it remotely (if for some reason you happen to have a stupid passcode or no passcode at all), you can make it play a noise regardless of volume/silence options, you can have it display a message for whoever finds it, and you can even WIPE it remotely should you need to. Does Apple have the ability to track people's locations based on that? Absolutely. Are they likely to? Not really. Does the convenience and usefulness of such a function outweigh any potential downsides? HECK YES. Say your iPhone gets stolen while you're at a restaurant. You can pull up the location and discover "Hey! It's at so-and-so address!" Then you can call the Police and let them know EXACTLY where the phone is. This situation has happened in the past. Google it.
Now, Buffalooed, would you PLEASE quit it with the NSA Conspiracy/ColoCrossing Horribleness/Whatever the hell else? At first it was somewhat interesting. NOW, on the other hand, it has gotten to be ridiculous.
Realistically speaking you could say that any modern cellphone (smartphone) is a device that collects, stores and sends information about you & people around you, which in turn makes it more or less so.
However, most people today accept this fact and still use them, seeing as you'd be more or less fucked otherwise. Same goes for the Internet as a whole.
Spying implies that it does so without my knowledge or consent. Sharing my location on facebook/twitter/foursquare isn't spying, it's sharing my location. Unless you want to claim that my phone is covertly sending data to the NSA for the purposes of them monitoring me, which is a bit of a stretch.
As for the reason they target iOS devices, it's because they're the only devices that are all homogeneously updated on a strict schedule. It'd be impossible (and illogical) for the NYPD to track the latest version of Android for the 500 different android handsets that are sold in the USA. If Google releases an upgrade, it's not going to see anything but a Nexus device for a while, and it probably won't be seen on a large number of devices at all..
On the other hand, the day iOS 7 was released it was running on 200 million devices, and everyone running an iPhone 4+ or iPad 2+ was able to install it immediately. It makes sense they would want you to update to a version that provides more physical security to disparage theft.
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drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Yawn.
@Magiobiwan, unsure where you jumped on for a ride, but feel free to jump off.
"Find my iDevice"
With said feature + insurance why is any of this public Apple theater even necessary? You can locate your phone, wipe it, etc. already.
Now calling this a feature is swell. It is. Can I opt out of it, easily as a moron user --- the same moron user that can't properly lock their phone? The new OS doesn't save the police resources of retrieving your phone. Perhaps NYPD should be creating a stupidity tax and fee for retrieval of said devices?
Does Apple have the ability to track people's locations based on that? Absolutely. Are they likely to? Not really.
Clearly Apple can and does track device by location. Or are we to just believe this phone home and give me your location feature is solely only when activated? The later, I support. The former is problematic. The issue is and will remain the senseless collection of every bit of data about a customer/user in centralized identifiable database for mining at-will. Collecting data might make sense for some things, but having clear expiration on the data collection and putting it out of reach of FOIA, hacker, government info brokers, etc. isn't paranoia, it is common sense.
@Magiobiwan, unsure where you jumped on for a ride, but feel free to jump off.
"Find my iDevice"
With said feature + insurance why is any of this public Apple theater even necessary? You can locate your phone, wipe it, etc. already.
Now calling this a feature is swell. It is. Can I opt out of it, easily as a moron user --- the same moron user that can't properly lock their phone? The new OS doesn't save the police resources of retrieving your phone. Perhaps NYPD should be creating a stupidity tax and fee for retrieval of said devices?
Does Apple have the ability to track people's locations based on that? Absolutely. Are they likely to? Not really.
Clearly Apple can and does track device by location. Or are we to just believe this phone home and give me your location feature is solely only when activated? The later, I support. The former is problematic. The issue is and will remain the senseless collection of every bit of data about a customer/user in centralized identifiable database for mining at-will. Collecting data might make sense for some things, but having clear expiration on the data collection and putting it out of reach of FOIA, hacker, government info brokers, etc. isn't paranoia, it is common sense.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Anyone mentally challenged to the degree of the folks in this NYC PSA on iThefting shouldn't be living in a city... Watching these tetherheads get untethered is umm... yeah... probably best for their own safety. Amazing more folks aren't found dead under subway from walking off the platform while being a phone idiot.
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So, long-term storing of metadata isn't to be considered spying? There is no real way of knowing exactly what they are doing with this data. It seems like you are a bit too focused on NSA as such, it's unfortunately to be considered fact that cellphone-users (OS, make, brand or model is irrelevant) are being monitored.
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Metadata = spying, ehh surveillance.
Bruce Schneier has a piece on just that topic today:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/metadata_equals.html
I don't frankly care what .gov is doing with data. I see little to no reason for them to be collecting any of it.
Telcos all have given gov open doors to put whatever equipment in their facilities they want. This isn't news or recent. It has been going on strong for the past decade or better.
Metadata has no limits. They aren't collecting just phone info on cells, but location, billing, call logs and many other details.
Not to be outdone the US Postal service was outed for a long running program where they've been photographing all mail and packages.
People aren't collecting this data for shits and giggles.
Bruce Schneier has a piece on just that topic today:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/metadata_equals.html
I don't frankly care what .gov is doing with data. I see little to no reason for them to be collecting any of it.
Telcos all have given gov open doors to put whatever equipment in their facilities they want. This isn't news or recent. It has been going on strong for the past decade or better.
Metadata has no limits. They aren't collecting just phone info on cells, but location, billing, call logs and many other details.
Not to be outdone the US Postal service was outed for a long running program where they've been photographing all mail and packages.
People aren't collecting this data for shits and giggles.
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