amuck-landowner

NYPD have been stopping people and asking them to upgrade to iOS7

manacit

New Member
So, long-term storing of metadata isn't to be considered spying? There is no real way of knowing exactly what they are doing with this data. It seems like you are a bit too focused on NSA as such, it's unfortunately to be considered fact that cellphone-users (OS, make, brand or model is irrelevant) are being monitored.
If the long-term storage of metadata is spying, than everything you own is a "spy device" down to the feature-phone and land-line that you make calls on, as there's long term metadata being stored about those calls too. E-Mail? Same. EZ-Passes or similar? You bet. Cars? Sure - license plate scanners store that data long-term!

My point is that calling a phone a "spy device" is a bit like calling a car a spy device too - you can use it to spy on people, but that's not it's primary purpose. It's hyperbolic. 
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Sure - license plate scanners store that data long-term!

That's a hot button topic.  I just caught a story on the wire yesterday about a US local city level parking authority using such to catch those with outstanding parking tickets.   Net result in not much time was 10's of thousands of vehicle plates snapped.  Someone up to 3 times in different locations.

Problem is, the data is able to be requested by the public under FOIA and would be released. 

To contrast this to State Police in the same state is day and night.  They collect lots of plate data, but it is purged on a standard and quick schedule and thus, not under FOIA.  Whether they feed it to other departments as part of evasion, I can't say.  I can say, I hope they do not and are being fully truthful.

you can use it to spy on people, but that's not it's primary purpose

A device need not have a single function to meet some strict definition.  Nor does something need to be technology to facilitate this endless amassing of information for mining purposes.

Going back into the Cold War there were energy weapons used and audio bugs that took the form of artwork in offices. Clearly, those were limited use decoys, and thus, more in line with your pure definition.

When I think of these phones (and not picking on Apple here at all), there is spying on these layers as a base:

1. All call details

2. All texts -- nice and small, easy to store, by design?

3. Location data, cell towers, wifi, etc.  It may leak device name (Joe's Iphone).  It may leak names of wifi (123 Main St wifi)

4. Application and phone install stack info.  This could be the bundle of major installed software, or the various visible things from something as 'innocent' as the browser.

5. Intentionally leaky software -- We've seen network improvement software - or so it was called and official carrier payloaded stuff in various phone lines.   Then you have the malicious apps themselves.  Some you opt in and aren't paying attention or knowing of their use, others are simply malicious.

We of course have the lat/lon GPS data, orientation data (is the user sleeping now), temperature and other inferred data set info (is their noise, is there light, is there temperature).

All of these issues scream for secure computing and trusted networks - alternative networks and more anonymous functionality. 
 

manacit

New Member
I would hazard that the majority (if not all) spying is not done at the phone level, but the carrier level. A cell phone, by design, has to send calls/text via the carrier, as well as them always knowing your coarse location via tower triangulation, not to mention baseband version.

It would make far more sense for an enterprising agency or whatnot to merely mandate that carriers keep information and turn it over when they want it (which, I think, is what they do).

My point is that phones aren't the crux of the issue - not using a cell phone doesn't mean your metadata won't get leaked in any shape or form. 
 

Magiobiwan

Insert Witty Statement Here
Verified Provider
I have a suggestion. Save ALL your stuff to /dev/null. The NSA isn't going to get it out of there! Might as well never leave your house too. Anything you do outside can be seen by them spy satellites!!! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!!1!11
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
Come on now @Magiobiwan.  Obviously, things have basis in reality or we wouldn't be talking about it like everyone elsewhere.

I don't understand if you purely intend on being a troll or are that ridiculous to believe there is nothing going on.
 

blergh

New Member
Verified Provider
If the long-term storage of metadata is spying, than everything you own is a "spy device" down to the feature-phone and land-line that you make calls on, as there's long term metadata being stored about those calls too. E-Mail? Same. EZ-Passes or similar? You bet. Cars? Sure - license plate scanners store that data long-term!

My point is that calling a phone a "spy device" is a bit like calling a car a spy device too - you can use it to spy on people, but that's not it's primary purpose. It's hyperbolic. 
Which is exactly what i wanted to come to. Without really knowing how our data is treated we are fucked. It might not be it's main purpose no, obviously not. But it's a nice enough feature to not really tell people about it.


While most cars of today have some sort of on-board computer, they are not directly connected to the internet but require some sort of service-tool to be able to read/dump the data, most of which is data about the engine. I see some flawed logic behind that reasoning.
 

rsk

Active Member
Verified Provider
I read about this. I don't know if it supposed to be a good thing or not ...
 

blergh

New Member
Verified Provider
iPhone6: unlock your phone with this chip in your hand! Just wave your hand over your phone! No one else can use your phone but you!

EDIT: Now I feel like an idiot. Their source is a satire website.
I knew someone would fall for it, trollbaiting is fun.
 
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