The great gun debate thread.

[Pmadd]

I've never owned a gun, and probably never will but I go trap shooting with my girlfriend at least once a week.

 

[MannDude]

I've never owned a gun, and probably never will but I go trap shooting with my girlfriend at least once a week.

It's fun, isn't it? It's been a few years since I've done that but I don't have a good shotgun. That's next on the list. Do you rent it at the range or is it hers?

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

Yeah I'm gonna bet if we had some sort of sadistic contest where we killed as many people as we could there'd be some big variance in scores between 'gun' and 'knife' and 'rock'.

Well, if you want to judge lethality based on killcount:  Religion has been responsible for more deaths than any other single cause, but I don't see anyone trying to make superstition illegal yet.  (Just an example.  If you're religious, kindly don't derail an interesting topic with boring preaching - I don't care).

I'm with Manndude on several counts.  I game hunt, I do target/competition shooting, and the sound of my 45's hammer being drawn back is more incentive for an intruder to remove themselves from my home than anything I could yell at them.

I do believe that "defending yourself from government" is no longer valid - but not because of a "you vs military" situation.  For all of it's punishing stupidity, "democratic" governments have learned that you simply can't massacre your civilians - it turns them into martyrs, undermines your authority, and generally paints a big ol' target for some other superpower itching for an excuse to stick their dick somewhere.  Restriction and outlawry works so much better;  and not just on the firearms front.  No better way to oppress a people than by systematically locking them down.  Then they're the ones that have to break the law in order to protest.

There are plenty of very legitimate reasons to own various firearms.  There are few to no instances where taking those away from honest people does anything good.

There are very few reasons to own a firearm you do not use.  Collecting?  Render them inoperable - negates all danger, makes them worth less to someone looking to rob you, takes away any sort of govt excuse to have them taken away from you.  Owning a firearm "to be prepared"?  You're living in the wrong country to know what 'being prepared' truly means.

There is no reason whatsoever for a civilian to own working assualt-grade hardware.  Period.

 

[Lee]

A lot like a knife, a useful tool in some instances, fun to play with in others, and can also be used as a dangerous weapon

The thing is, give everyone a knife instead of a gun and it will immediately drop the murder rate drastically.  Simply because most would not be so quick to attack someone for fear of getting hurt themselves.  That is the issue with guns, they are used by cowards.

 

[Tactical]

Good ole .45 can't beat a lot stopping power. I prefer the old ma deuce (.50 cal) for killing some deer lol!

 

[MannDude]

There is no reason whatsoever for a civilian to own working assualt-grade hardware.  Period.

Define 'assault grade'. I assume you just mean fully auto, right?

Most people complain about AR15s. Pff. They're just hunting rifles with more or less stupid and un-needed 'taciticool' attachments. But still fun as hell to shoot. Some want to pass laws (and some states have) stating you can't have more than X amount of rounds in a magazine. Do I need 30 round magazines or a 50 round drum? No. But I also don't need a car that goes more than 85mph. Not the government's place to tell people what they do and do not need.

 

[Tactical]

Actually some ppl do need a 30 round clip or drum cause they spray and pray.

 

[Aldryic C'boas]

Define 'assault grade'. I assume you just mean fully auto, right?

I would classify 'assualt' as a weapon intended to neutralize an armed, opposing force.  Burst/Automatic weapons, tactical shotguns, non-competition APR Pistols.  Same goes for ammunition.


I personally see no harm in someone being able to go down to a gun range, rent an old M-60, and use it on-premesis to work off some stress blowing away soda cans.  I'm having a very hard time trying to justify why someone would need to own a large-capacity weapon.

But I also don't need a car that goes more than 85mph. Not the government's place to tell people what they do and do not need.

While very true, it's a 'damned if you (do|don't)' situation.  We shouldn't need anyone to tell us that murder is morally reprehensible, or that you shouldn't take other people's things.  I can see the need for restriction, without it escalating to regulation.

 

[MannDude]

I would classify 'assualt' as a weapon intended to neutralize an armed, opposing force.  Burst/Automatic weapons, tactical shotguns, non-competition APR Pistols.  Same goes for ammunition.


I personally see no harm in someone being able to go down to a gun range, rent an old M-60, and use it on-premesis to work off some stress blowing away soda cans.  I'm having a very hard time trying to justify why someone would need to own a large-capacity weapon.

While very true, it's a 'damned if you (do|don't)' situation.  We shouldn't need anyone to tell us that murder is morally reprehensible, or that you shouldn't take other people's things.  I can see the need for restriction, without it escalating to regulation.

I agree with you, but around here, there is a lot of rural land. The folks who go to gun ranges do so because they can't walk out their back door and do that on their own property. Whether it be because of being in city limits, not having property that is ideal for shooting on (flat, neighbours surrounding you, etc) or perhaps they just go to a shooting range as it's a way to meetup or see other individuals who share a common interest and passion.

But about an armed 'opposing force', I suppose any weapon could be classified as one that could be used like that. Even a little .22 plinker. But keep in mind our right to bear arms is indeed due to the threat of opposing forces.

This right was described by Sir William Blackstone as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.

 

[bzImage]

Always be prepared to return excessive fire. When I don't have to listen to a search helicopter fly over my house for 20+ passes (like I had to listen to last night for an hour straight starting at around 3AM) I will consider giving up my guns.

In the mean time, despite the fact I live in a decent neighborhood the above scenario took place, bad guys exist, I *don't* have to worry about people breaking into my house, or stealing my car. Why? Because I own fire arms and as much as I hate Florida, they have written some half decent laws that allow me to protect myself and my home.

 

[wdq]

I grew up around guns. I remember going out and hunting pheasants, turkeys, and deer with my my family starting when I was very young. I got my first shotgun of my own when I was 13, a year or so before that I took a hunter safety class and started shooting trap for my school's team.

Currently I own a couple of 12 gauge shotguns, a 0.50 caliper deer hunting muzzle loader, and a 0.22 caliper pistol. Of course all of these weapons are dangerous, but I have the experience and maturity it takes to use the weapons safely.

I have some family members who have AR style guns, but are set to semi automatic mode so they don't break any laws in my state. For something like deer hunting the AR style guns are a little overkill, but I don't really see the need to ban them or anything like that. 

 

[Tactical]

Me personally I dont care if any tom dick or harry own a gun. It's scarey when I hear about cases when children get a hold a parents gun and its not even put up in the correct storage place. Thats what chaps my ass! I do believe if you teach your children at a young age how to handle guns and show respect for them. They will grow up with a better understanding of what the use of gun is intended for. Shoot im teach my six yr old how to shot a 4-10. 

 

[KuJoe]

I had a gun for home protection but since moving to Colorado, my brother ended up moving into a sketchy neighborhood so I let him hold it instead since our neighborhood is a lot better than any neighborhood I lived in in FL.

That being said, I've been wanting to get a revolver so bad since I started shooting my dad's .357 last year. Semi-autos are nice and have their purpose, but I just enjoy wheelguns more. I would love to get a Chiappa Rhino some day for conceal carry.

 

[MannDude]

I grew up around guns. I remember going out and hunting pheasants, turkeys, and deer with my my family starting when I was very young. I got my first shotgun of my own when I was 13, a year or so before that I took a hunter safety class and started shooting trap for my school's team.

Currently I own a couple of 12 gauge shotguns, a 0.50 caliper deer hunting muzzle loader, and a 0.22 caliper pistol. Of course all of these weapons are dangerous, but I have the experience and maturity it takes to use the weapons safely.

I have some family members who have AR style guns, but are set to semi automatic mode so they don't break any laws in my state. For something like deer hunting the AR style guns are a little overkill, but I don't really see the need to ban them or anything like that. 

Lot of folk like that around here too. Good people.

As they say, the best 'safety' is 'between your ears'.

 

[Tactical]

That chiappa rhino is alot of gun! Point that a nose of a burglar! I bet he would run! fast!

 

[drmike]

I remember when kids use to bring guns to school for school clubs.

No one ever was shot, none of the issues of today with youths and firearms violence.

When people says guns = cowards, that's not really true.  I've been shot before by an armed robber, in the back.  The robber was cowardly, no doubt.   Had I been carrying then, I would have at least had a chance to take him down and out.

Firearms at the greatest equalizer to exist.   A 90 pound woman can stop a rapist dead cold in a millsecond.  An 80 year old home owner can bag a home invader.  Thugs and street violence suddenly don't have a monopoly on the neighborhood.

In all my years, having lived in some big cities and having seen quite a bit of up close violence, one thing I still hate messing with is a damn knife.   The chances of bleeding out from a knife wound are mighty high.  Gunshots, they don't scare me, I know how they feel.  It's manageable.

 

[blergh]

Guns should be in every civilized house.

Regulation of such is frankly pathetic.

Stripping gun ownership is near the top of the list every time tyranny comes knocking.

I lol'd. Not that i thought any less of you.

 

[RiotSecurity]

After a good discussion in IRC I figured I'd bring this over to the forum. We've got a culturally diverse member-base here so it's always interesting to get differing views on topics and ideas that are unknown or foreign to some people elsewhere.

As an NRA member, gun owner, and semi-active target shooter (like to go to the range at least twice a month) it's likely understood where I stand on these issues. What about you?

/queue debate opcorn:

EDIT: FYI my avatar is not actually me. But i'm sure I'll look like that in another 10-15 years

I'll make the USA government a deal, I will get rid of all my guns if they get rid of the presidents childerns armed body guards and he gets rid of his body guards.

Since we know that'll never happen you can understand why I'll never get rid of a gun.

 

[pcan]

I believe that the urge to own a gun is mostly a USA thing. It probably makes perfect sense on that framewok, but it is not a global issue, not in my country at least. Most of the world seem to cope fine without widespread gun adoption. I live in Europe, near the shooting range of my town. I see very few people going there, because very few people wants a gun (it is legal for hunting). Due to low demand, there is a single armory in the town. Speaking of direct experience, I used a gun only once, during the mandatory military service. The experience to manage a gun was so alien to the people that, on that occasion, at least one attempted to grab the gun by the (hot) barrell after firing a full magazine. When the mainstream local press reports about USA gun massacres, the usual attitude is to iterate around the line "why they want to buy guns?". The journalists are suggesting a widespread bad judgement, but I belive this i actually yet another instance of the "we are better than them" human self-delusion.

 

[Tactical]

 When i was deployed overseas my m-4 was like an extension of my body, Never left it alone and cleaned it  before each time we had to go on raids and patrols. Man that rifle was my best friend she loved me and i loved her!