GIANT_CRAB
New Member
Title says it all.
Why is there no maximum wage?
Why is there no maximum wage?
Why is there no maximum wage
- Thread starter GIANT_CRAB
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Chronic
Member
Do you think there should be one? If so, why?
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DearLeaderJohn
New Member
Because it would limit innovation as people would have nothing to strive for, it would essentially mean working harder would gain no reward
Aldryic C'boas
The Pony
Oh look, another "question" ripped from a chanboard, phrased in a manner to stir up class drama. The real question is... why do you folks keep feeding the troll?
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
It's a fair question really.
When it comes to money, income and rights, eventually people who cranked long enough about toiling look back at the boss man and then say "let's punish him some more".
Frankly, I do not believe in minimum wage. Never should have been enacted in the States. At the same time, other things should have and some were and some weren't. For instance workplace safety - but maybe not OSHA - was a VERY GOOD thing.
No two people (employees) are the same. Their dedication isn't the same. Week to week investment isn't the same. Why should they be paid the same? Why should the government get to dictate what someone gets paid? Are they their agent or manager?
For the company owner, he assumes all the risk, typically invests way more hours at a rate lower than the law would allow for an employee. Should the law mandate/interfere and dictate he must draw at minimum a minimum wage for the 80+ hours he invests a week for often these days, free?
All of these matters, the employee relationship, the role as employer and the overstepping of government are a decay of natural rights of people to contract.
Employees contracted, agreed to terms of employment. The employer agreed to terms to have the employees time and energy. None of that should be any place of the government.
Sure there are exploiters and slave drivers posing as employers. But, by headcount sheerly there are way more employees milking the golden cow and defrauding the employers.
I love when I see tech giants, like Google with their $1 salary gimmick. Isn't that a mass violation of minimum wage laws? Surely, it is. Nearly certain it can be done with proper structuring and the use of various contracts that shift the "employee" into a contractor.
The future is nearly all contracting and ninja skills. Those fighting the worker rights socialism gimmick are going to be left in the dust bin of history, starving. MInd you the employer ends up subsidizing/supporting those handouts disproportionately. Employers can't win no matter what they do.
Err, both sides have valid issues and problems. Solution, contracts.
My other solution that no one seems to want to do --- worker owned collectives. Every employee is an owner -- everyone is invested. You all fail as a group or succeed as a group. Superstars, ninjas and lazy slackers are all averaged down or out and everyone performs at least mediocre.
When it comes to money, income and rights, eventually people who cranked long enough about toiling look back at the boss man and then say "let's punish him some more".
Frankly, I do not believe in minimum wage. Never should have been enacted in the States. At the same time, other things should have and some were and some weren't. For instance workplace safety - but maybe not OSHA - was a VERY GOOD thing.
No two people (employees) are the same. Their dedication isn't the same. Week to week investment isn't the same. Why should they be paid the same? Why should the government get to dictate what someone gets paid? Are they their agent or manager?
For the company owner, he assumes all the risk, typically invests way more hours at a rate lower than the law would allow for an employee. Should the law mandate/interfere and dictate he must draw at minimum a minimum wage for the 80+ hours he invests a week for often these days, free?
All of these matters, the employee relationship, the role as employer and the overstepping of government are a decay of natural rights of people to contract.
Employees contracted, agreed to terms of employment. The employer agreed to terms to have the employees time and energy. None of that should be any place of the government.
Sure there are exploiters and slave drivers posing as employers. But, by headcount sheerly there are way more employees milking the golden cow and defrauding the employers.
I love when I see tech giants, like Google with their $1 salary gimmick. Isn't that a mass violation of minimum wage laws? Surely, it is. Nearly certain it can be done with proper structuring and the use of various contracts that shift the "employee" into a contractor.
The future is nearly all contracting and ninja skills. Those fighting the worker rights socialism gimmick are going to be left in the dust bin of history, starving. MInd you the employer ends up subsidizing/supporting those handouts disproportionately. Employers can't win no matter what they do.
Err, both sides have valid issues and problems. Solution, contracts.
My other solution that no one seems to want to do --- worker owned collectives. Every employee is an owner -- everyone is invested. You all fail as a group or succeed as a group. Superstars, ninjas and lazy slackers are all averaged down or out and everyone performs at least mediocre.
DearLeaderJohn
New Member
Having talked with my father in the past about his time contracting throughout the middle and far east (spanning around 20 years), I know for a fact the contractor life isn't that wonderful, it's in fact a very lonely lifestyle which involves living out of a suitcase most of the time. (Keep in mind that was the 80s and 90s)It's a fair question really.
When it comes to money, income and rights, eventually people who cranked long enough about toiling look back at the boss man and then say "let's punish him some more".
Frankly, I do not believe in minimum wage. Never should have been enacted in the States. At the same time, other things should have and some were and some weren't. For instance workplace safety - but maybe not OSHA - was a VERY GOOD thing.
No two people (employees) are the same. Their dedication isn't the same. Week to week investment isn't the same. Why should they be paid the same? Why should the government get to dictate what someone gets paid? Are they their agent or manager?
For the company owner, he assumes all the risk, typically invests way more hours at a rate lower than the law would allow for an employee. Should the law mandate/interfere and dictate he must draw at minimum a minimum wage for the 80+ hours he invests a week for often these days, free?
All of these matters, the employee relationship, the role as employer and the overstepping of government are a decay of natural rights of people to contract.
Employees contracted, agreed to terms of employment. The employer agreed to terms to have the employees time and energy. None of that should be any place of the government.
Sure there are exploiters and slave drivers posing as employers. But, by headcount sheerly there are way more employees milking the golden cow and defrauding the employers.
I love when I see tech giants, like Google with their $1 salary gimmick. Isn't that a mass violation of minimum wage laws? Surely, it is. Nearly certain it can be done with proper structuring and the use of various contracts that shift the "employee" into a contractor.
The future is nearly all contracting and ninja skills. Those fighting the worker rights socialism gimmick are going to be left in the dust bin of history, starving. MInd you the employer ends up subsidizing/supporting those handouts disproportionately. Employers can't win no matter what they do.
Err, both sides have valid issues and problems. Solution, contracts.
My other solution that no one seems to want to do --- worker owned collectives. Every employee is an owner -- everyone is invested. You all fail as a group or succeed as a group. Superstars, ninjas and lazy slackers are all averaged down or out and everyone performs at least mediocre.
--
Off topic
However all of the revolutions you hypothesise about will never become a reality unless you get out and do something about it, I see you're quite a commentator on a lot of subjects however it'd just be nice to see you try and follow through with some of your ideas (I agree with some and disagree with others). Not to say I dislike you, in fact it's the opposite (I love a good, rational debate), but arm-chair commentators don't change anything. Also doing things that are unpopular by the majority never helps either as those are the ones you need to convince. See 50 years ago today peaceful protests were made and that made the difference; that's what I believe all of the hackers today don't understand is that they need to be positive and get the general public on their side to make way for change...not disrupt and damage their day-to-day business.
It happens in a communism world. There's maximum and minimum wage. Everyone just gets paid the same no matter what you do. It existed in history. It got revoked. Would you like to try again?
Have wanted to do that, though hard to do with a small group, I think. Need to be large enough that decisions can be done on votes where it's not just 2 people, 3 or 4 people voting. I'd say a 5 member collective would be the minimum.
It's okay. I'd like to think we're all fairly mature here. I've yet to see anyone get too worked up in this thread.
texteditor
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Eat the rich
texteditor
Premium Buffalo-based Hosting
Nope, those with the highest wages extract the most value from society, their subordinates produce it
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
I did the contractor route in the 1990's onward. In fact, I still do between being a business owner.
Contracting is running your own business-lite. Both often (especially today) are extreme commits of your time (who is lying, 80 hours is a slacking week).
As for revolutions, people are in the US at least too complacent. Life is rather luxurious for even the most down trodden. If it weren't for a remote control, most would be too stuck on the couch to even change the channel. Emerging world though, different story.
I enjoy commenting here and do so elsewhere. I've lived a very robust life with tons of career changes. Gone through the trenches. The life experiences are still more than useful, while the technology has changed.
Parts of being alive are learning, living, and collecting. You live and learn, along the journey you collect, experiences, memories, physical baggage. Really, what we all are is uniquely collected heaps of raw materials and thoughts and ideas borrowed from others. Sure, some of us build upon things and remix our own style into the pile of life.
All that flowery dancing aside, commentary on things, public discourse should be encouraged. Schools should be teaching youths not to be public speakers (see our better colleges) but to be vocal as needed.
Too much chatter these days (although not here) of revolution. I have yet to see myself an organic people created revolution. The next revolution is independence of ones mind. Breaking the bonds, unsubscribing to norms and expectations. Distilling life to its bare essence.
What happened in the 1960's, politically speaking, wasn't a peace movement. It was a mass infusion of drugs, irresponsible sexuality, erosion of families, etc. It destroyed time tested norms and replaced much of them with government control of private citizens. But sure, the 60's were fun, if you didn't die during it.
A true revolutionary of the 1960's was properly calling the unwashed protesting masses some bad names. Certainly was pointing to most of it as Communism's social marketing 1.0 takeover. Look at the decline of America there onward. Pretty ugly.
Hackers aren't revolutionaries, typically. Getting social support for misdoings? It's the argument of two wrongs don't make a right. Trouble and negativity are never the way to lure folks except to have social decay, breaking of things.
Then again, intellectuals and passive non violent behavior isn't changing things either.
Change starts in your home, then with your neighbors, then the town, city, state. Grassroots or never will have a foundation which to support itself.
Contracting is running your own business-lite. Both often (especially today) are extreme commits of your time (who is lying, 80 hours is a slacking week).
As for revolutions, people are in the US at least too complacent. Life is rather luxurious for even the most down trodden. If it weren't for a remote control, most would be too stuck on the couch to even change the channel. Emerging world though, different story.
I enjoy commenting here and do so elsewhere. I've lived a very robust life with tons of career changes. Gone through the trenches. The life experiences are still more than useful, while the technology has changed.
Parts of being alive are learning, living, and collecting. You live and learn, along the journey you collect, experiences, memories, physical baggage. Really, what we all are is uniquely collected heaps of raw materials and thoughts and ideas borrowed from others. Sure, some of us build upon things and remix our own style into the pile of life.
All that flowery dancing aside, commentary on things, public discourse should be encouraged. Schools should be teaching youths not to be public speakers (see our better colleges) but to be vocal as needed.
Too much chatter these days (although not here) of revolution. I have yet to see myself an organic people created revolution. The next revolution is independence of ones mind. Breaking the bonds, unsubscribing to norms and expectations. Distilling life to its bare essence.
What happened in the 1960's, politically speaking, wasn't a peace movement. It was a mass infusion of drugs, irresponsible sexuality, erosion of families, etc. It destroyed time tested norms and replaced much of them with government control of private citizens. But sure, the 60's were fun, if you didn't die during it.
A true revolutionary of the 1960's was properly calling the unwashed protesting masses some bad names. Certainly was pointing to most of it as Communism's social marketing 1.0 takeover. Look at the decline of America there onward. Pretty ugly.
Hackers aren't revolutionaries, typically. Getting social support for misdoings? It's the argument of two wrongs don't make a right. Trouble and negativity are never the way to lure folks except to have social decay, breaking of things.
Then again, intellectuals and passive non violent behavior isn't changing things either.
Change starts in your home, then with your neighbors, then the town, city, state. Grassroots or never will have a foundation which to support itself.
Last edited by a moderator:
drmike
100% Tier-1 Gogent
Change starts in your home, then with your neighbors, then the town, city, state.
This is what everything comes down to that matters.
This site is the neighborhood for some of my interests
What's great about here and other broad online communities is the input from diverse people who live in diverse lands and diverse histories. Too much pure social majority rules fake democracy in reality and in virtual lands.
This is what everything comes down to that matters.
This site is the neighborhood for some of my interests
What's great about here and other broad online communities is the input from diverse people who live in diverse lands and diverse histories. Too much pure social majority rules fake democracy in reality and in virtual lands.
texteditor
Premium Buffalo-based Hosting
Be honest: how diverse do you think a forum full of English-speaking tech enthusiasts with the disposable income to buy and operating hosting businesses and services is?
What are we going to do when robots begin replacing labor en masse. Foxconn announced they were going to replace over a million workers with robots, and subsequently had their asses handed to them by the Chinese government in the background. Because they quietly abandoned the idea. Can you imagine the social unrest that would create?
Google Manna Chapter 1, read the story, and decide which society we should develop.
Google Manna Chapter 1, read the story, and decide which society we should develop.