[Confirmed] GreenValueHost being sold to XFuseSolutions

[drmike]

Digging what out of debt? You're acquiring GVH's customers not the company aren't you?.  Any existing GVH debt would still be the responsibility of Green Value Hosting  Inc wouldn't it?

If an IOU suffices then the company probably really was that small, even in the hosting industry...

Debt, you'd assume would be friends of the former company   GVH could per se fold up the pocketbook and not pay it's debts.  However, what debts would such a company have and how could those impact the company acquiring their customers?

I mean think about it, I buy from your datacenter,  I owe you money.  Tomorrow I transfer my business or portions of it to some other company who remains at your datacenter.  What do you do about that IOU?  What may you do?  

Well if the roles were reversed and you did that be it legitimate or not, I'd crumple both you and the new guy up by booting you the hell out, turning you off, etc. 

I see people walking owed money in this industry all the time.  Try doing that and staying with the same provider though with a legit new owner or other.  That should be entertaining watching them prune you.

Something like this would be debt that needs addressed.

Think about it folks, what products do you see GVH noise promoting?   They don't own those.   The folks that do, if you owe them they might, oh, I don't know, take those customers or something, like they should.  New owner could run off to another DC, would need to find one with real cheap dedi rentals, and would drop 50%+ of those customers due to move.

 

 

[MannDude]

How do you have idle hardware when you simply rent servers?

That doesn't excuse the email blast. Just cancel the servers with the HVH/CC when your customer cancels them with you instead of leaving them idle and racking up debt. That is what most resellers would do. Why was Jonny not canceling these when his customers did, thus building a stock of 'idle hardware'?

So, was it GVH idle hardware that was being pushed or was it HVH/CC idle hardware that was being pushed?

The notion of GVH having 'unused hardware laying around' just seems silly, they don't own hardware.

 

[zzrok]

To get the best pricing, he may have committed to a longterm lease.

 

[Francisco]

To get the best pricing, he may have committed to a longterm lease.

In today's dedicated market no ones doing long-term leases unless the discounts are DEEP or it's RTO. The few 'long lease' deals I see are 6 months upfront too, and I doubt GVH was going to be shoving $250 up front for an E3 that may very well not sell (especially if they're just a reseller).

What's more than likely is that some of the gear is grandfathered on pricing (really sick deal CC/HVH had going on, maybe off lease gear, old fat client cancels 100 boxes and CC/HVH are trying to make them at least cover cost, etc). I can't see GVH holding onto boxes that are 'every day low price' and CC/HVH turn them out all day every day - there's just no point.

Francisco

 

[drmike]

How do you have idle hardware when you simply rent servers?

That doesn't excuse the email blast. Just cancel the servers with the HVH/CC when your customer cancels them with you instead of leaving them idle and racking up debt. That is what most resellers would do. Why was Jonny not canceling these when his customers did, thus building a stock of 'idle hardware'?

So, was it GVH idle hardware that was being pushed or was it HVH/CC idle hardware that was being pushed?

The notion of GVH having 'unused hardware laying around' just seems silly, they don't own hardware.

The GVH dickery has to stop, not from public scrutiny side, hell I encourage people to ask questions.

IDLE HARDWARE -  When you get something far below market rates for the underlying server commodity and do so in manner you cannot again receive such, you probably want to keep holding such #wins.   Even if it means you have idle inventory.   If GVH was on top of shit, they would be clearing such servers and readying them for the next buying immediately at cancellation, instead of holding such unused.   Efficiency and automation aren't two things GVH does or gets prior to Duke.

WHO OWNS SERVERS -  All the servers GVH sells at this point are HVH's at the end of the day. (HVH clearly = ColoCrossing).   If you buy a "Bargain Bin" server, that server is prior allocation.  That means GVH received it prior at some silly low rate that they cannot go buy more in the future.  If you buy non "Bargain Bin"  that order usually gets kicked to HVH for fulfillment and those are done at normal full rates.

"[SIZE=11.8181819915771px]The notion of GVH having 'unused hardware laying around' just seems silly, they don't own hardware."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]I fully agree.  But refer to above.  Would you let go of / return to upstream inventory a $2x E3 as a "provider middleman"?  Probably not, you would get that sold upon cancellation, ASAP.[/SIZE]

 

[MannDude]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Would you let go of / return to upstream inventory a $2x E3 as a "provider middleman"?  Probably not, you would get that sold upon cancellation, ASAP.[/SIZE]

Yes. If I had to continue to pay for them month to month when they're vacant I would have cancelled them at the upstream.

As a reseller he had nothing to lose by returning them to CC/HVH and losing the 'good deal' he had on them... Is it a good deal when you're in debt and continuing to pay for a vacant machine that a customer isn't using hoping that someone else will buy it soon? Worst case scenario the server is returned to CC/HVH and then he sells one at a normal price. Either way he's probably only making a few dollars profit, if that, after PP fees on whatever dedicated servers he resold so really it's no skin off his back if CC/HVH gives him a $15 atom that he sells for $20 or a $70 E3 that he sells for $75 or something.

 

[drmike]

.... if CC/HVH gives him a $15 atom that he sells for $20 or a $70 E3 that he sells for $75 or something.

No more like $2x for an E3 that elsewhere would probably fetch $50+ at market.

See normal rates, if you haven't noticed, he doesn't sell at.  He's allergic to it or something.  Everything has to be diced down to unbelievable prices for resource you can't at the door find any reason not to buy (i.e. wow! what a bargain).  That inability to sell right or sustainably, leads to pricing zone people will accept and buy at from GVH.  In fact, it might be the only reason why otherwise sane folks have prior bought.

But to your point, holding something and paying out of company pocket sucks.   Even if you get something @ $25 and flip it at $39, you have to get two months income to cover every one you are out of pocket.  Even if you have a mere 3 days idle on average per return, over a year, you just ate up 30+ days of non pay and loss. So in effect one year of that box at best makes you 10 months of income if you can flip it customer to customer with 3 days idle each time.

But,  this situation of idle inventory and losing money goes on all over.  It's precisely why and when people should have formulas in place and automatically be kicking out real promotional offers.

Doesn't matter what shop it is, this sort of stuff needs automated and processes or you start chunking off big portions of your profits.

 

[Kris]

Yes. If I had to continue to pay for them month to month when they're vacant I would have cancelled them at the upstream.

As a reseller he had nothing to lose by returning them to CC/HVH and losing the 'good deal' he had on them... Is it a good deal when you're in debt and continuing to pay for a vacant machine that a customer isn't using hoping that someone else will buy it soon? Worst case scenario the server is returned to CC/HVH and then he sells one at a normal price. Either way he's probably only making a few dollars profit, if that, after PP fees on whatever dedicated servers he resold so really it's no skin off his back if CC/HVH gives him a $15 atom that he sells for $20 or a $70 E3 that he sells for $75 or something.

Changing of the guards as I mentioned. CC has a quasi-house brand with 200 servers and someone who probably has real life coming up and who wanted out. (Ring a bell?) 

More likely? Because he's banned on their house site / investment, LET, and with so much churn, you need new clients to keep things going. 

New ownership means Duke gets to post links on VPSB / LET / dedicated server deals, clean slate. The profit all goes back to my favorite Buffalo knockaround guys at the end of the day. 

Let's hope Duke handles things better than Jon...

Every single one of my VPS servers is not responding. Reformatting doesn't work, they don't have communication with the nodes it seems. One container is actually up, but networking doesn't work outbound. I've confirmed by console that networking's dead.

wo ATL servers are offline on a new NY named node. (The $3-4 128MB ATL/year)

No need to look into mine personally, just hoping it's straightened out. 5 or so servers not responding. Nothing of importance on them, but if this is a general outlook on nodes online / working... not so good. 

I just use my account and VPS's (and their inability to come online) as a canary in a coal mine, and it's been looking pretty dead. 

 

[drmike]

1. More likely? Because he's banned on their house site / investment, LET, and with so much churn, you need new clients to keep things going. 

2. New ownership means Duke gets to post links on VPSB / LET / dedicated server deals, clean slate. The profit all goes back to my favorite Buffalo knockaround guys at the end of the day. 

3. Every single one of my VPS servers is not responding. Reformatting doesn't work, they don't have communication with the nodes it seems. One container is actually up, but networking doesn't work outbound. I've confirmed by console that networking's dead.

4. wo ATL servers are offline on a new NY named node. (The $3-4 128MB ATL/year)

5. I just use my account and VPS's (and their inability to come online) as a canary in a coal mine, and it's been looking pretty dead. 

1. LET ban certainly banged GVH up.  Failed to identify new markets, which is just straight up lazy.  The HF stuff doesn't count as a market.

2.  Spot on, new owner would and should have a clean slate, especially since WILL NOT be GVH.   That fuckery other day I cross posted (cause I am not here to pass fish tales or craft them) about acquisition from the WHMCS that had word play and indicated from GVH existing post Duke deal, totally false and Jonny is out after such.  He can do whatever with GVH and the domain and no one can stop him there.  Existing bans should keep him in his cage though.

3. VPS not responding, just brutal.  You should send for support and see how that works.  More indicators

4. ATL showing NY node, should look and see what and where you are on that?  Were you notified of some migration?

5. That's my approach also.  I call them monitoring services

 

[Kris]

I wonder if the overdue invoices Duke mentioned are CC servers and that's why all these nodes are offline (4 different) 

When Ernie was overdue and CC was demanding payment, I was offered HVH for $0.00, but it came with the server leases / RTO crap. Politely declined. 

Maybe the reason he got everything so cheap is it comes with all of the leases (and contracts that GVH) has had trouble paying. 

Luckily someone showed jbiloh on LET why his Atrato commits were filled up, otherwise that was a good market for GVH / HVH for a while. The stressers are pissed. 

Both cheap as shit atlanta plans are both on a node called : NYLOW1 - I presume they took every client off ATL and put them all on the same low-resource server.

No word of anything, but then again the host nodes are offline, except for 1. It's online, with the network unplugged. I can tell where the trace dies, doesn't make it to the hostnode. So it seems they've turned a good number of servers off and/or unplugged them.   :huh: 

 

[Kris]

Ok I'm fairly sure these servers are offline / powered off. Out of 6 servers, 1 container responds. That 1 container doesn't have networking. 

Traceroutes die out at their Atrato (Buffalo) or Zayo (pretty much anywhere else) routes such as DFW and LAX. 

If it were my container, you'd see Uplink -> Hostnode / Hypervisor IP -> VPS Container IP.

Hop #15 , that ??? below is where the host-node would be... Same in LAX, DFW and Buffalo servers. I think the dude went broke. 



12. ae0.cr1.dfw2.us.zip.zayo.com           0.0%   132   69.9  73.1  53.1 228.4  22.2
13. ae11.er1.dfw2.us.zip.zayo.com             0.0%   132   65.7  69.4  54.1 201.1  23.5
14. 208.185.252.18.IPYX-089846-001-ZYO.above.net 0.8%   132   62.5  68.5  54.3 195.6  18.1
15. ???

All of these die out at the uplink, meaning 5 hostnodes that I know of are offline, including the new residence of my Atlanta servers, NYLOW1. 

 

[drmike]

I wonder if the overdue invoices Duke mentioned are CC servers and that's why all these nodes are offline (4 different) 

When Ernie was overdue and CC was demanding payment, I was offered HVH for $0.00, but it came with the server leases / RTO crap. Politely declined. 

Maybe the reason he got everything so cheap is it comes with all of the leases (and contracts that GVH) has had trouble paying. 

Luckily someone showed jbiloh on LET why his Atrato commits were filled up, otherwise that was a good market for GVH / HVH for a while. The stressers are pissed. 

Both cheap as shit atlanta plans are both on a node called : NYLOW1 - I presume they took every client off ATL and put them all on the same low-resource server.

No word of anything, but then again the host nodes are offline, except for 1. It's online, with the network unplugged. I can tell where the trace dies, doesn't make it to the hostnode. So it seems they've turned a good number of servers off and/or unplugged them.   :huh: 

All of these, are good for Duke to address in his morning.  I don't have answers for these.

The stressers I am still lol'ing about.  I guess folks can make money doing whatever shady destructive stuff.  I am still not convinced about their clampdown with flows being whole story and end to the abuse.

 

[Kris]

They've been down days, and from trace-routes, it's not as simple as ticketing in. Maybe that's what he meant in terms of paying invoices, CC might have some of these shut off. 

I really just wanted to point it out to him, incase it wasn't disclosed to him (like the last minute promo email) 

 

[HalfEatenPie]

2.  Spot on, new owner would and should have a clean slate, especially since WILL NOT be GVH.   That fuckery other day I cross posted (cause I am not here to pass fish tales or craft them) about acquisition from the WHMCS that had word play and indicated from GVH existing post Duke deal, totally false and Jonny is out after such.  He can do whatever with GVH and the domain and no one can stop him there.  Existing bans should keep him in his cage though.

No. And I'll tell you why.

You take over, even just the clients of a brand, I'm going to still assume it's the same until I see new evidence. There's no reason to suspect otherwise that it'll actually change just after you got "bought out". For all we know business could continue as usual. Giving them a clean slate would then bring another period of GV* crap that wouldn't be worth dealing with.

Now, specifically for this situation we know XFuse doesn't mess around and Duke's a hard working guy. However, they picked up a problem asset. Therefore, I guess I'd just take the average of the two scores and go from there.

Although for personal reasons, I don't touch GVH, whether it be rebranded or sold or not.

 

[drmike]

No. And I'll tell you why.


You take over, even just the clients of a brand, I'm going to still assume it's the same until I see new evidence. There's no reason to suspect otherwise that it'll actually change just after you got "bought out". For all we know business could continue as usual. Giving them a clean slate would then bring another period of GV* crap that wouldn't be worth dealing with.


Now, specifically for this situation we know XFuse doesn't mess around and Duke's a hard working guy. However, they picked up a problem asset. Therefore, I guess I'd just take the average of the two scores and go from there.


Although for personal reasons, I don't touch GVH, whether it be rebranded or sold or not.

Ehhh perhaps a confusing batch of words Mr. Pie

Customers are going to Duke unless he fills up and realizes whole circus of GVH isn't worth it (which I doubt cause what he's getting surely is workable as he's said).  Those customers will be in better place and whatever Duke decides to call that new company, that would be clean.  Free to roam about and all, make offers, participate.

As for GVH,  I haven't a clue why Jonny is some bitter clinger with the domain name and likely aspirations to continue the brand doing other stuff.  He's been told, pointed at, slapped, etc. about it.     GVH is done.   I mean that shit gets zero love all over town and I don't expect that returning to these sites.

 

[MattKC]

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/936873/#Comment_936873


Duke, still want to be involved in this circus? If the posts following that are true, there are past gvh employees with copies of the whmcs database out there beyond Jonny. I know you want to try to turn this ship around, but I'm not sure you realize just how f'd up the GVH clown show is. I'm guessing the avoidance of buying the brand (beyond the reputational damage) extends to trying to avoid the liabilities GVH has out there (realized or not). Ksubedi admitted being a GVH employee during the Jaroslav debacle.


Still trying to understand why you (and Mike) ever got involved with this kid. His history is littered with him ignoring every helpful comment or suggestion to further his own disturbing beliefs and "values". Some people just don't see their errors, and refuse to take advice or guidance. Jon has proven himself to be in this catagory. He pretends he is listening or will agree to get you to shut up, then goes right back to what he was doing before. Some people just cannot be helped.

 

[drmike]

http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/936873/#Comment_936873


Duke, still want to be involved in this circus? If the posts following that are true, there are past gvh employees with copies of the whmcs database out there beyond Jonny. I know you want to try to turn this ship around, but I'm not sure you realize just how f'd up the GVH clown show is. I'm guessing the avoidance of buying the brand (beyond the reputational damage) extends to trying to avoid the liabilities GVH has out there (realized or not). Ksubedi admitted being a GVH employee during the Jaroslav debacle.


Still trying to understand why you (and Mike) ever got involved with this kid. His history is littered with him ignoring every helpful comment or suggestion to further his own disturbing beliefs and "values". Some people just don't see their errors, and refuse to take advice or guidance. Jon has proven himself to be in this catagory. He pretends he is listening or will agree to get you to shut up, then goes right back to what he was doing before. Some people just cannot be helped.

So Ksubedi is a good guy.  Pretty sure he was known in public to be working with Jonny back months ago.

WHMCS database, interesting about copies.  I haven't seen one nor been taunted with one by anyone credible.  Entirely possible that an old admin might have such, they often do.

Aside from a WHMCS ID file zip (attachments to WHMCS) officially GVH hasn't prior been hacked or dumped.  There was a while back a table dumped or excerpt and was unclear what or where.  I forget what it was, perhaps the admin table.

As for me getting involved like I said, blame it on the community at large.   When Jonny went suicide mode #1, people asked me to do outreach.  That opened that gateway.   From time to time he PM's me and I do the same (usually GVH scandal he should be addressing or ceasing to be involved in).   When all this went out of control, he asked me to shop his company around.  So I did.  Heck, if anyone asked, I'd consider doing the same.  No suitors came along, things continued, had to get something together.  Duke had time and energy to jump in and that's it really.  Just time and place mostly.

As far as Jonny listening, spot on @MattKC.  He's a young lad, so it comes with the territory.  He's not stupid and yeah manipulative, seems suitable term to describe some of his actions.

Know this, I'll be glad when this is gone and dealt with.  No more GVH dramas.  No more ruined weekends (like the last one tending to this whole situation).

I'll say this too, I think Duke will accept orders under Xfuse for anyone that wants to buy the Bargain Bins or anything else and who is in doubt / doesn't want stuff benefiting GVH.  That might cause a temper tantrum internally, but I don't have to deal with that  Two of them can deck it out.

 

[Hxxx]

So Ksubedi is a good guy.  Pretty sure he was known in public to be working with Jonny back months ago.

WHMCS database, interesting about copies.  I haven't seen one nor been taunted with one by anyone credible.  Entirely possible that an old admin might have such, they often do.

Aside from a WHMCS ID file zip (attachments to WHMCS) officially GVH hasn't prior been hacked or dumped.  There was a while back a table dumped or excerpt and was unclear what or where.  I forget what it was, perhaps the admin table.

As for me getting involved like I said, blame it on the community at large.   When Jonny went suicide mode #1, people asked me to do outreach.  That opened that gateway.   From time to time he PM's me and I do the same (usually GVH scandal he should be addressing or ceasing to be involved in).   When all this went out of control, he asked me to shop his company around.  So I did.  Heck, if anyone asked, I'd consider doing the same.  No suitors came along, things continued, had to get something together.  Duke had time and energy to jump in and that's it really.  Just time and place mostly.

As far as Jonny listening, spot on @MattKC.  He's a young lad, so it comes with the territory.  He's not stupid and yeah manipulative, seems suitable term to describe some of his actions.

Know this, I'll be glad when this is gone and dealt with.  No more GVH dramas.  No more ruined weekends (like the last one tending to this whole situation).

I'll say this too, I think Duke will accept orders under Xfuse for anyone that wants to buy the Bargain Bins or anything else and who is in doubt / doesn't want stuff benefiting GVH.  That might cause a temper tantrum internally, but I don't have to deal with that  Two of them can deck it out.

ok point/paste link to Duke s billing

 

[DomainBop]

 Ksubedi admitted being a GVH employee during the Jaroslav debacle.

The spammer was a high paid executive during his tenure at GVH.  He  started out as "Vice President of Operations" and within four months was rewarded for his hard work with a promotion to "CTO" and a new name ("Steve Wilson").  His promotion to CTO was part of the management restructuring that saw Jonathan Nguyen replaced by Jaroslav Urban as operations director.

So Ksubedi is a good guy.

My definition of good guy doesn't include someone who runs a business that violates the CAN-SPAM act by spamming a mailing list composed of email addresses that were harvested from a stolen database, nor does it include business owners who won't accept responsibility for their actions and try to lay the blame for their company's spam on a "marketing agency" they hired. I sure wouldn't trust my data or personal information to his hosting business,

 

[HalfEatenPie]

I'll say this too, I think Duke will accept orders under Xfuse for anyone that wants to buy the Bargain Bins or anything else and who is in doubt / doesn't want stuff benefiting GVH.  That might cause a temper tantrum internally, but I don't have to deal with that  Two of them can deck it out.

Honestly, Duke would probably get more sales if he sold those bargain bin dedicated servers under XFuse.  Even with future promises of GVH getting better, knowing Jonnyboy has access to the WHMCS is a complete no-no.  

Edit: Oh... I guess I read your thing wrong.  Yeah.  That's probably going to generate more sales than having Johnnyboy get access to your information.