Incero Review - AVOID

sleddog

New Member
God what an embarassing thread. Shovehost, I've defended you in the past at LET, but never again.

Mostly what pisses me off in that you launch this "BetterVPS" brand with copious promises, when in fact you don't have a clue what you're doing. It's blatent false advertising. This is the kind of crap that gives the VPS industry a bad name. For god's sake take down the site, remove it from your sig and go away. Get a summer job mowing lawns or something.

After reading your ticket history, I think Incero made one mistake. They should never have provisioned that server.
 

Zen

New Member
God what an embarassing thread. Shovehost, I've defended you in the past at LET, but never again.

Mostly what pisses me off in that you launch this "BetterVPS" brand with copious promises, when in fact you don't have a clue what you're doing. It's blatent false advertising. This is the kind of crap that gives the VPS industry a bad name. For god's sake take down the site, remove it from your sig and go away. Get a summer job mowing lawns or something.

After reading your ticket history, I think Incero made one mistake. They should never have provisioned that server.
Heh.

If there's one thing I've learnt quickly from day one - it's how to be a client. Like seriously, if you actually care (I.E run a business and care for it) you tread carefully and learn what you can and cannot do. This thread isn't proof that Shovenose isn't fit for the VPS business, it's proof that he isn't fit for business - at least not right now. It's the unfortunate truth that gives young people in this industry a bad stigma. There are ways to conduct yourself, to know yourself, your position, and how that relates to the people you deal with - and this ticket was one big long list of wrongs in terms of that. 

1. Understand what you can push for, the pricing you tried for was admirable but too cookie cutter - you didn't take into account Incero and their pricing at all. You then had the audacity to ask for a month free - maybe you were misinformed but think for one second, would you give an extremely discounted client a month free, for nothing?

2. Understand who you are to the provider, you are a client, and there are many others - take into account that and not only that but what the position and personality of the business is. As many have agreed, Incero/Gordon run an arrogant ship, that's not always bad. I'm pretty sure like 50% of the successful people I know are very arrogant and that's what gets them places, you can be a nice guy or a bad guy in business, either work. The thing is Incero will find it hard to value you as a client when you not only come across naive but on paper you are already in the negative - lets get this straight, CPU replacement, at least a few irritating questions for Gordon to piss him off, network issues followed by complaints.. and a few other things. From a businesses perspective it's hard to treat someone like they are valuable when all the facts say you are not, and in this case, with him knowing your reputation and the history of the ticket, he gave up. These providers need to make decisions about which clients they are going to go full length with - they will know whether you are going to have 10 servers and low support reqs in 12 months or 2 servers and huge support reqs in 12 months. (its an art!) It makes perfect sense to rip out the weed before it becomes a real problem.

3. Understand what is allowed and not allowed outside of business - your opening of this thread really screwed you over, then you immaturely set your signature to dash out the business-related information and in big red text wrote "INCERO SUCKS" - what do you think that portrays yourself as? It's not professional and it's no excuse to say that you are allowed to convey your personal opinion in such a way, when you are representing a business or even slightly related to that business you should watch your words, goes back to my previous comment about knowing what you can and cannot do.

Sorry if this seems like an essay, but there are even more points I could bring up. Just trying to make the picture clear, this isn't a hosting related problem, this is a business problem. You don't know how to conduct yourself in a business environment - and excuses such as the fact that you are always courteous/bla/bla/bla don't cut it when you back stab that representation the minute something bad happens.
 
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MannDude

Just a dude
vpsBoard Founder
Moderator
There was a report submitted for this thread with a request to 'clean it up', but I just spent ten minutes skimming it and don't see anything needing cleaned up.

Report direct posts if you feel they need moderated. Otherwise, carry on. :)
 
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Marc M.

Phoenix VPS
Verified Provider
I think that shovenose treats his business like a hobby, or maybe vps hosting is his hobby. No one who takes business seriously and makes a living from it acts this way. His signature is just silly and speaks volumes about how much he thinks of his own business hobby.
 
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jarland

The ocean is digital
I'll second that @Zen. I'll go above and beyond for a client even far beyond what is reasonable. However, when they line themselves up with a clear message that they will be worth none of it, appreciate none of it, and expect no less than it, they will get none of if. When you're polite and respectful, I want your business and I'll work hard to keep it. When you're rude and demanding of that "above and beyond" you will most likely get exactly what you were promised and nothing more. That is how most people do business from what I see.


Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to go out of my way for someone who is angry or having a bad day. We've all been there. We've all had bad moments. It's not hard to tell the difference between someone who is having a bad day and someone who has 365 bad days a year.
 

Zen

New Member
@Zen, you deserve nothing short of this: http://i.imgur.com/pO8Bzoi.gif

Seriously, bravo.  
Well I appreciate it.. and all while exhausted from lack of sleep ^_^

If I might add, I'm not sure of HalfEatenPie's age (I assume young, seen him talk about training to be an civil engineer or such in college), but I would like to comment really quickly that he is a great example at least IMO of how to successfully do what many young people fail at. On LET a while back he would often make jokes most of the time, but he never stepped out of the safe zone (in a good way) and although I don't know him I realized that he started to represent Catalyst a while back and I saw how he very maturely I might add stepped into the position and transitioned perfectly into the perfect representative entity for a business - he has common business sense and a personality that fits, you can tell. Just realized this is another paragraph, when I'm tired I type like crazy!? :(



I'll second that @Zen. I'll go above and beyond for a client even far beyond what is reasonable. However, when they line themselves up with a clear message that they will be worth none of it, appreciate none of it, and expect no less than it, they will get none of if. When you're polite and respectful, I want your business and I'll work hard to keep it. When you're rude and demanding of that "above and beyond" you will most likely get exactly what you were promised and nothing more. That is how most people do business from what I see.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to go out of my way for someone who is angry or having a bad day. We've all been there. We've all had bad moments. It's not hard to tell the difference between someone who is having a bad day and someone who has 365 bad days a year.
Same type of thing, I have and still do bend over backwards for people that will make me less than a coffee per month not only because I like doing it but because most people are just right. If you expect it, and push for it at every turn - it's likely I will be overloaded and angry, though I may not say anything immediately (that's because I'm British!). If you know your place, however, you will find me doing 4 hours worth of  $30/hour managed work for you at $20/month, because, well, I could afford to, and it makes me happy. 

Obviously you have to have room for that, and that's the position of a business I mentioned earlier - you can run it every way imaginable on the surface, in relation to how much you are charging for the service or product and what you want to provide on top of that. Not sure if Catalyst makes a good markup or not, you probably do, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't make a great mark up compared to someone like BuyVM (not knocking BuyVM, they run a lean and unmanaged service, opposite of Catalyst from what I can see) but I also wouldn't be surprised if you're happy with that, and that matters.

Okay. I'm done, what the hell. I just go on and on and on when I'm tired. You'de think it'd be the opposite.
 

HalfEatenPie

The Irrational One
Retired Staff
Well thank you, that's quite appreciated!  Just for clarification I'm actually 21 and just graduated from my university with a Civil Engineering (focus in Water Resources/Hydrology) degree.  I'll be a masters graduate student next year though at a different university.  While not my main trained work, I definitely appreciate the opportunity Jarland and Ryan gave to me to be part of this industry and have had a blast working with them!  

But not getting off topic...

Shovenose, please review the statements that we have made and reflect on how you're presenting yourselves to others, because it's really hindering yourself and your "brand" more than what you initially intended on (posting wise).  We understand that you're upset but going on this "spree" is not really advisable.  You're as bad as those people who threaten a "bad review" on a forum unless you got a free VPS.  
 

Aldryic C'boas

The Pony
Yeah but that extended delay?  That was CC's fault because they were playing double duty helping CVPS out (based on prior history).
In the interest of fair disclosure... the delay wasn't that bad actually.  And honestly, rather understandable... even if you ignore the whole CVPS==CC thing, you can rationalize is at them trying to save one of their bigger customers that simply did not have the technical expertise to do it on their own.  They put in a bit of their own manpower to make sure that customer could keep paying their bills.  But either way, I imagine things were hectic enough over there.

From what I understand, the office space is offsite, and they have techs go over at regular intervals... that's fine.  The issue that set me off  was the tech posted "Ok, you're fine to go now" and closed the ticket, and the box had no networking at all (regular or the IPMI).  There was later a heat issue, and when Fran mentioned that hit was way too high in the box after they rebuilt it, we got a response of "Nope, everything's fine" (paraphrased obviously) and the ticket closed again.  That's what set me off that night.

Everyone that is a CC customer, BuyVM included can't argue, they deal with CC because of what they are getting at the low price point they are.  When price is so overwhelmingly blinding, you overlook/ignore many things.
Sure we can :3  While aye, it is a good price... what's important is that NY has pretty much been rock solid since day one.  Hardware failures, DDoS, and issues like that aside, we haven't had any major problems... and that's why we're still there.  If we were paying 500$/mo for our setup there, but there were a couple outages a month?  Gone like the wind....
 
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MartinD

Retired Staff
Verified Provider
Retired Staff
This is a thread about Incero, not CVPS or CC. Keep that elsewhere please, buffalooed :)
 

drmike

100% Tier-1 Gogent
The thread topic wandering, it happens even in normal conversation, unless you interact with robots.

I've never understood why folks care so much about such.  Getting the topic back on topic, well that is self correcting via participation from others.

Now, what I will say is CC is rather popular in the industry as is Incero and Shovenose just went over those two burnt bridges.

Where is the next location in your plan for world domination @shovenose?

(oh yeah and this is my 1000th post) 
 
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shovenose

New Member
Verified Provider
Well, no, not really. We do mind though and yeah, it's kinda up to us.
I know you're moderator/admin/whatever but I don't see why it should bother you since you've got nothing to do with any of this. I was actually emailing back and forth to Jon Biloh yesterday and was extremely close to buying a server. But, I'm trying to run things more efficiently, and this includes cancelling the BetterVPS brand for now, and this allowed me to ditch a WHMCS license, a Dedicated IP, an entire Dedicated Server, and lots of Rackspace Email. Estimating savings around $400/month which is good.
 
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